Guild Wars 2

Esplen.3940:

@VictorTroska, that’s a fine system and all, but…

Why implement something that allows players to not get on your game, when you want players to get on your game?

Indeed, dailies are most easiest hook to keep players logging to your game and it works there is no doubt in that. I havent missed single daily since I wanted Ascendant ring and amulet.

But real question is: Do players like it? To be forced to log in for reward instead of having other methods to reward players without having them to log in every day.

From personal experience sometimes I dont mind doing dailies, but then there are days when I just dont want to log in to Gw2, yet I know that if I wont, I will have to wait longer and longer to get something I wanted. So I force myself to log into game even though I realy, truly hate it, I still do it. Is it fun? No! Does it say to A-Net that I am active player that logs in every day and Gw2 has billion players? Yes, thats how Blizzard keeps high subs by placing golden carrot on stick and players keep logging to get it.

So like I said, its all up to devs. If they want this old, tested system that works into game then fine. But its not fun or innovative. Gw2 should be something new, something that has different stuff, different ways. “Not your old mmo”. If you understand what I am saying. If I wanted to play OLD mmo I would play WoW, its 100 times better to keep players hooked than Gw2, but I choose to play Gw2 atm because its different. But for how long until it falls into “usual mmo” pit if devs let it?

Galen Grey.4709:

I did answer that question to you personally in a previous post when I told you why its important Ascended gear lasts for as long as possible. You know that too cause you replied to that post.

Yeah, and the answer was “what’s the alternative?”. There are plenty of alternatives, one of them being to make the content more rewarding than the loot.

Tall order, but like I said, it’s for a big problem.

Galen Grey.4709:

Well if reward is not important then content then this wouldnt be an issue either way.

Precisely, so what’s the point of dailies?

On the first page you said “…The problem is people dont care about content they care about rewards. Nothing the game can do there.” That’s true, but dailies, timegates, and timesink rewards aren’t helping.

Galen Grey.4709:

It makes it a lot less grindy. A day worth of dailies is just 30 minutes… not even that really cause you can just play the game and boom daily without having to do anything special. A day worth of karka shells or a day worth of ecto or a day worth of karma is not 30 minutes of a specific task though its a lot more.

I’m not comparing daily progression to any other reward progression, I’m comparing 60 minutes of dailies over two days to 60 minutes of dailies over one day. Assuming I’m having fun in those 60 minutes, regardless of how I spend it, why is the second one more important?

Behellagh.1468:

Because it levels the playing field between the wealthy and the poor, in both terms of game wealth and playing time. So we have a new currency or craft material that is account bound that take minimal effort to get. This way the wealthy can’t simply buy the items with this currency or craft the item any faster than a poor player and the same holds true with players who can play all day versus those who can play for an hour. Everyone is equal.

If the endgoal is to make everyone equal, seems to me that it’d make more sense to get rid of the things that cause the inequality.

Honestly, I don’t care if people do or do not like it. It does cause other players to login which means more players. If someone is not able to login, they actually don’t need ascended.

ALL OF THE ASCENDED TOGETHER account for ~2% of your stats. If that’s going to make or break your build, you’re either a crazy amazing theorycrafter (who probably has Laurels) or you’re making a big deal out of something which you don’t want to wait for.

Just to add one more thing before I had enough. Do devs want to place some system in game to make players have to log in or actually add some FUN things to make players want to log in.

This new Living World thing realy made me want to log in to game. I was very happy that they implemented Living World, its something new because it happens so often, you dont wait months for new stuff. That keeps me logging to game. So I have faith that Gw2 devs can create better system than dailies if they realy want to.

@VictorTroska I assure you dailies dont affect me as much as you’re saying. I will not say nothing at all cause that wouldnt be entirely true but it is essentially a negligible mount.

Typically cause there are many variations based on things like mood and what the rest of the guild or friends might be up to, I would see which character I feel like playing. Most of the time its my next in line alt on the way to level 80. A quick look at the dailies just to pick which zones I will be playing in. I will then go and do dynamic events in the level appropriate zone of that area. I gather, revive,purge conditions, apply conditions and dodge regardless of the daily so much so I keep doing that even after the daily is done. I also salvage anything below rare anyway because I like crafting and have every crafting profession on different alts so I use a lot of materials as you can imagine (I also dont buy my materials) .

I also dont play for the rewards, I play to have fun… If i miss a few days, its not a big deal. If I dont play today I dont see that as loosing a laurel, I see that as today I didnt earn a laurel.

Yes that happens to me too, not the first time that I would be time to go to bed, I check the progress on my daily and see I need 2 more kill types, or the entire crafting achievement or a couple of veterans or something like that. WP, couple of minutes and its done. Thats hardly the game playing me. This might shock you but there were also a couple of times I didnt even finish the daily off even all it took would be 2 minutes max because really whats the big deal? An extra day doesnt change anything.

I have nothing against your Christy system… Thats also a possibly and could work well. Its a good idea actually, might improve the charged crystal system. I also agree with Esplen concern but there could be a way in the middle. Like say 1 day per 25 crystals for a maximum of 125 crystal at one time. That way if you’re going to be away during the week you wouldnt be penalized but you cannot stay away for long periods of time.

You could also maybe attach a few that grows exponentially for more days. So say 25 crystal at one go would be free, 50 crystal would be something small like say 5s, 75 would be something like 20s, 100 would be 50s and 125 could be 75s

or something like that.

Smith.1826:

If the endgoal is to make everyone equal, seems to me that it’d make more sense to get rid of the things that cause the inequality.

What supply poor players extra gold or busy players more hours in a day? Oh I know, give everybody a free set of “new items” that the gating mechanism was going to slow down the introduction of. Everyone is now equal with no effort on their part plus there’s no longer any long term goal.

It’s not challenging or rewarding when you know you are going to get something and that it will only be a matter of time before you get it. The charged quartz is the most ridiculous iteration of time-gated content yet. It’s absolutely terrible it takes 2 months to make a set for one character… but wait! Anet loves to punish players who actually play more than one character. So, if you wanted 2 full celestial sets you are looking at 4 months.

Behellagh.1468:

Smith.1826:

If the endgoal is to make everyone equal, seems to me that it’d make more sense to get rid of the things that cause the inequality.

What supply poor players extra gold or busy players more hours in a day? Oh I know, give everybody a free set of “new items” that the gating mechanism was going to slow down the introduction of. Everyone is now equal with no effort on their part plus there’s no longer any long term goal.

So we’d be right back to where we were before ascended items? I’m down.

Sarcasm aside, the endgame goal should be to enjoy the game, and there isn’t any effort gone into the dailies anyways.

Smith.1826:

Yeah, and the answer was “what’s the alternative?”. There are plenty of alternatives, one of them being to make the content more rewarding than the loot.

Tall order, but like I said, it’s for a big problem.

Its not a tall order, its impossible. If you play the game to get the shiniest of shinies, that is what you value the most. The most engaging content will not make you like the shinies any less and you will never be willing to sacrifice shiny for content. Not saying its good or bad, you should enjoy the game the way you want to enjoy the game just dont expect the game to change you because it just cant.

Smith.1826:

Precisely, so what’s the point of dailies?

Because some people love rewards and would do anything for them. Others would like to have those same rewards but dont want to spend all the time working towards that goal. Newer better rewards would hurt the game for some. Dailies are a way to balance these 3 completely different issues in a way thats fairer for everyone.

Smith.1826:

On the first page you said “…The problem is people dont care about content they care about rewards. Nothing the game can do there.” That’s true, but dailies, timegates, and timesink rewards aren’t helping.

Nothing will help cause thats what these people enjoy. Dailies are just trying to ensure these players arent a negative influence over others. Just look at raiders and the raiding culture in games like WoW. I didnt experience it personally but I have a friend who was in tears a couple of times because the guild she was in and had friends in threw her out cause she wasnt dedicated enough for their standards. That kind of thing happens when the shinies of the shiny requires big efforts. Dailies in Gw2 are as far away as you can get for that. Play the game anyway you want and you’re good! Couldnt be easier… well they could give BiS away for free but short of that, this is the easiest way to get them.

Smith.1826:

I’m not comparing daily progression to any other reward progression, I’m comparing 60 minutes of dailies over two days to 60 minutes of dailies over one day. Assuming I’m having fun in those 60 minutes, regardless of how I spend it, why is the second one more important?

That would be true if some people were not their worst enemies. Look back in this thread. People stating they refuse to run dungeons with their friends because they have to do the daily. People saying the dailies are keeping them from WvW which is where they have fun. etc… They can do their whole daily or at least most of it engaging in those activities but no, they have to grind the daily out of the way. There is no guarantee everyone will enjoy doing the daily because some spoil it for themselves because of pressures they create themselves.

Smith.1826:

If the endgoal is to make everyone equal, seems to me that it’d make more sense to get rid of the things that cause the inequality.

This isnt one of them, on the contrary though not a completely leveling field its as level as it can get compared to the alternatives. Except perhaps what VictorTroska suggested above. That could be better in this regard.

Smith.1826:

Behellagh.1468:

Smith.1826:

If the endgoal is to make everyone equal, seems to me that it’d make more sense to get rid of the things that cause the inequality.

What supply poor players extra gold or busy players more hours in a day? Oh I know, give everybody a free set of “new items” that the gating mechanism was going to slow down the introduction of. Everyone is now equal with no effort on their part plus there’s no longer any long term goal.

So we’d be right back to where we were before ascended items? I’m down.

Sarcasm aside, the endgame goal should be to enjoy the game, and there isn’t any effort gone into the dailies anyways.

Then enjoy the game. The end game goal isnt to fully gear up in ascended thats what players choose as an end game goal themselves. It could be to go for legendaries, named weapons, other armor sets, making alts, WvW, sPvP, Explorer all the world really well… plenty of things you can do at end game, going for ascended is just a personal choice.

Odinsfury.8360:

It’s not challenging or rewarding when you know you are going to get something and that it will only be a matter of time before you get it. The charged quartz is the most ridiculous iteration of time-gated content yet. It’s absolutely terrible it takes 2 months to make a set for one character… but wait! Anet loves to punish players who actually play more than one character. So, if you wanted 2 full celestial sets you are looking at 4 months.

Celestial Armor takes 30 days (assuming you get a quartz every day).
30 days will also, theoretically, get you 40 Laurels (assuming you do a daily every day).
30 days will also, theoretically, get you 12-24 Guild Commendations (assuming you do at least 2 activities a week).

Celestial Weapons take 15 more days (assuming 3 weapons).
15 days will also, theoretically, get you 25 Laurels (assuming you do a daily every day).
15 days will, also, theoretically, get you 6-12 Guild Commendations.

You now have Celestial Armor + Weapons, 65 Laurels, 18-36 Guild Commendations.

You can purchase 2 Ring/Amulet (2 rings + 0 amulet or 1 ring + 1 amulet) via Laurel Merchants or, if you have Badges of Honor, 2 Rings and 1 Amulet. You can also purchase 1-2 accessories via Guild Commendations.

That means that you now have, depending on how much you do (and whether or not you have Badges of Honor), somewhere from 12-15/15 items (unless you require 4 weapons, then add 5 Laurels, which doesn’t affect anything, and potentially 2-4 more Guild Commendations, which also doesn’t affect anything).

So, if you’re a casual player and can get on to do your dailies and, once a week, run with your (or a) guild to do Guild Missions, it only takes 1.5 months to get a full Celestial Set.

Unless, of course, you need 2% more Magic Find instead of 2-3 to all stats, in which case, go ahead, wait the extra 25 days. It’ll only take you 70 days, then. (Note: total of 10% magic find in place of 9 to all stats)

I’m reminded by my last GW1 days where I decided to go for 50 HoM points. The last thing I needed was Obsidian armor and I set out to get it by selling everything I could sell and farming Fissure of Woe.

It was great hooking up with people to do that difficult content, performing your essential task in the speed run, being glad someone hands you a few ectos and obsidian shards because he doesn’t need them, finding a rare drop you can sell, all to acquire that piece of gear you want. I had fun every step of the way, although it closely resembles farming.

Almost all of that is gone with time-gated, non-tradeable items. I find that sad.

Shifty.5187:

Almost all of that is gone without elite dungeons. I find that sad.

Fixed.

Shifty.5187:

I’m reminded by my last GW1 days where I decided to go for 50 HoM points. The last thing I needed was Obsidian armor and I set out to get it by selling everything I could sell and farming Fissure of Woe.

It was great hooking up with people to do that difficult content, performing your essential task in the speed run, being glad someone hands you a few ectos and obsidian shards because he doesn’t need them, finding a rare drop you can sell, all to acquire that piece of gear you want. I had fun every step of the way, although it closely resembles farming.

Almost all of that is gone with time-gated, non-tradeable items. I find that sad.

The Obsidian armor wasnt BiS… go for I dont know named exotics for example… hmm like say vision of the mists and you can get that same experiance more or less.

here’s a list of hard to craft thingies
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

Galen Grey.4709:

Because some people love rewards and would do anything for them. Others would like to have those same rewards but dont want to spend all the time working towards that goal. Newer better rewards would hurt the game for some. Dailies are a way to balance these 3 completely different issues in a way thats fairer for everyone.

Smith.1826:

…That kind of thing happens when the shinies of the shiny requires big efforts. Dailies in Gw2 are as far away as you can get for that. Play the game anyway you want and you’re good! Couldnt be easier… well they could give BiS away for free but short of that, this is the easiest way to get them.

Having such aspects not in the game is the farthest you can get away from that.

Aside from that, a more interesting, ‘healthier’ alternative would be to link the rewards through interesting content – like having ascended items be the result of epic quest chains, or having legendaries be the result of demanding and satisfying challenges (and not just a ‘legendary waste of time’). Overall, more emphasis on rewarding good content, less emphasis on pouring hours into the game, no time gates or sinks required.

Smith.1826:

That would be true if some people were not their worst enemies. Look back in this thread. People stating they refuse to run dungeons with their friends because they have to do the daily. People saying the dailies are keeping them from WvW which is where they have fun. etc… They can do their whole daily or at least most of it engaging in those activities but no, they have to grind the daily out of the way. There is no guarantee everyone will enjoy doing the daily because some spoil it for themselves because of pressures they create themselves.

That’s understandable, except I don’t think this should all be at the expense of people who are responsible with their playtime.

Daily and temporary everything is my only complaint about gw2

Galen Grey.4709:

The Obsidian armor wasnt BiS… go for I dont know named exotics for example… hmm like say vision of the mists and you can get that same experiance more or less.

here’s a list of hard to craft thingies
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

Obsidian armor wasn’t BiS indeed, and I yet I had a lot of fun getting it.

Anyway, I’m not someone who needs stuff to do in GW2, I have plenty to do in it. That’s part of the reason I want to get rid of Dailies and other time-gated kittenry. No need for them.

Esplen.3940:

Honestly, I don’t care if people do or do not like it. It does cause other players to login which means more players. If someone is not able to login, they actually don’t need ascended.

And here we have the core of the problem. You are a communist. I am not trying to use the word as an insult, as most people I know consider it one, but rather, you are actually a communist by definition.

You have absolutely no right to tell me how or when I should be spending my time. If I want to spend 12 hours in one day farming for something, I should be able to spend 12 hours farming for something. If I don’t want to log in every day, and instead only log on during the weekend, then I should be able to do so without being penalized for it.

You need to read this and actually spend some time trying to understanding it.

“Let’s say they set the progress at 7 bananas to get an ascended helmet. You would have to spend let’s say 30 minutes every 24 hours to earn 1 banana. If you do not complete the objectives within those 24 hours, you do not get a banana.

Now let’s say because I have a job, I only get to play during the weekend. This means I only get to earn 2 bananas and it only takes me an hour to do so. Now, as I have dedicated all of my time to play to the weekend. I now have 19 more hours where I am left unable to make any sort of progress at all and I have nothing else to do.

Meanwhile, other players are able to earn that ascended helmet in 7 days, even if they only played the game for 3 and a half hours, yet it would take me almost an entire month, even though I’ve been spending over 5 times as much time playing."

This system essentially tells me that my time is not worth as much to Anet as another players simply, because I do not log in every day. That is outrageous and incredibly disrespectful to the player.

It is absolutely, positively unfair to prevent someone for making progress, even though they spend more time playing the game simply because they can’t log in every day. I value giving people the freedom to play as they can. The only way it can be fair for everyone is to reward people only for the amount of time they play, not when they play.

How does my opinion on whether or not people need something define my beliefs?

If you knew what communism stood for, you’d understand that you’re just throwing words around. Unless my working towards a Celestial Helmet also worked towards your Celestial Helmet, and until the entire community reached X Charged Quartz Crystals, nobody had a Celestial Helmet, I don’t see how it’s a communist game.

Nor do I see how my opinion, specifically that which you quoted, makes me a communist. I do, however, like the utopian ideology behind communism, but that’s besides the point.

What ever happened to horizontal progression? Why can’t we obtain our PvE stats the same way as sPvP?

Galen Grey.4709:

Shifty.5187:

I’m reminded by my last GW1 days where I decided to go for 50 HoM points. The last thing I needed was Obsidian armor and I set out to get it by selling everything I could sell and farming Fissure of Woe.

It was great hooking up with people to do that difficult content, performing your essential task in the speed run, being glad someone hands you a few ectos and obsidian shards because he doesn’t need them, finding a rare drop you can sell, all to acquire that piece of gear you want. I had fun every step of the way, although it closely resembles farming.

Almost all of that is gone with time-gated, non-tradeable items. I find that sad.

The Obsidian armor wasnt BiS… go for I dont know named exotics for example… hmm like say vision of the mists and you can get that same experiance more or less.

here’s a list of hard to craft thingies
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

In GW1 all endgame armour was BiS, including Obsidian armour….but GW1 was built around collecting armour sets for prestige. So in GW1 terms you could consider Obsidian “BiS” because stats were irrelevant in that game and it was GW1’s equivalent of the best stuff out there.

GW2, even with ascended armour coming, is still not so much about stats as other MMOs. My biggest gripe with GW2 in that respect is simply that the armour sets are of much poorer design than in GW1 so I am not interested in running dungeons since I only like on of the armours. I literally only like 1. And that includes all dungeons and all types (light, medium, heavy). That’s a big change for me.

Still, FotM is the only new thing since the game came out that is sort of permanent and the rest is all stuff that comes and goes. In another thread I compared it to snacks and meals. At some point you get sick of lots of snacks and just want a proper meal. I think that’s the best analogy I can make for new content in GW2. Too many snacks, no proper meals since release.

Dog.1472:

It is absolutely, positively unfair to prevent someone for making progress, even though they spend more time playing the game simply because they can’t log in every day. I value giving people the freedom to play as they can. The only way it can be fair for everyone is to reward people only for the amount of time they play, not when they play.

I’d agree . . . if any of the daily items were progress towards something more tangible than the (admittedly almightily awesome) Endless Mystery Cat Tonic.

Also, now with Laurels being rewarded out of the Achievement Reward milestones, if you do chase other achievements than the Daily you can still get Laurels rewarded.

At this point I’d like, again, to lament the lack of Ascended at the words “servers are now live” . . . would have been so much neater than to cobble and push in the Laurels.

If people want daily content that’s fine. It takes like 30-45 minutes to do the daily activities. I just want to be able to get get the same out of 7 hours of playing over a weekend as they get for that 30-45 minutes over 7 days, which is currently not possible.

I miss the much freer feeling Guild Wars offered and not having these reward restrictions. Why is ANet trying to control when we spend our time in game? Rewarding people who can log on daily is not fair to people who can’t.

I’m learning more and more that I prefer the style of an online RPG over an MMO, there’s a reason Guild Wars 2 is my first MMO, and that’s bcs I loved Guild Wars so much, and fell for the marketing since I trusted ANet would provide the same kind of experience with this game.

Craptrain.7203:

I agree. The daily mechanic is actually counter-productive for longevity. Instead of people playing for fun, they log in for 30 mins to do their daily, then log out again, having all the satisfaction of a completed chore.

And this daily crap is coming from devs who used to say they didn’t want (or even NEED) to do dailies or content gating… I suppose they’re that desperate now. Sad stuff. /shrug

People where complaining that dailies didn’t give anything good. They make them good and other people complain. Would this still be a problem if the amulets were available from a different source?

Navzar.2938:

People where complaining that dailies didn’t give anything good. They make them good and other people complain. Would this still be a problem if the amulets were available from a different source?

Dear neighbor, it will always be a problem. Always, for someone.

Somewhat relevant: I really don’t want ascended armor and weapons because I feel like me getting full exotics hasn’t payed off. It’s as if I haven’t progressed since I first played. Adding ascended would just make me feel bad about my exotics.

In terms of gathering materials why not have them re spawn 1 hr after collection in a random location?

Smith.1826:

Having such aspects not in the game is the farthest you can get away from that.

Aside from that, a more interesting, ‘healthier’ alternative would be to link the rewards through interesting content – like having ascended items be the result of epic quest chains, or having legendaries be the result of demanding and satisfying challenges (and not just a ‘legendary waste of time’). Overall, more emphasis on rewarding good content, less emphasis on pouring hours into the game, no time gates or sinks required.

Conceptually I full agree, In practice though can you imagine enjoying an 12x repeatable epic quest chains that take 15 days to complete each that wouldnt drive you crazy? Cause I cannot. That also means 180 days where you are earning nothing except a full armor set and 180 days where you play nothing but this epic quest chain that has to be likely be spectacularly grindy to take that long to complete.

Smith.1826:

That’s understandable, except I don’t think this should all be at the expense of people who are responsible with their playtime.

I has to be a balance. Thats what the daily system does. Try to balance necessary evils with fun.

You get to wait 15 days but arent required to grind.
You are required to play 15 days but are free to play whatever you want
etc..

People already find the minuscule effort required for a single daily daunting and boring… Multiplying it by 7 will make it 7 times worst.

Shifty.5187:

Galen Grey.4709:

The Obsidian armor wasnt BiS… go for I dont know named exotics for example… hmm like say vision of the mists and you can get that same experiance more or less.

here’s a list of hard to craft thingies
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

Obsidian armor wasn’t BiS indeed, and I yet I had a lot of fun getting it.

Anyway, I’m not someone who needs stuff to do in GW2, I have plenty to do in it. That’s part of the reason I want to get rid of Dailies and other time-gated kittenry. No need for them.

I am too much happier chasing Cosmetics then BiS.. Ascendeed gear isnt for us per se.. its for people who dont enjoy cosmetics but rather BiS gear.

Only thing is you dont need to get rid of dailies, do the plenty of stuff you have to do, the daily will finish of itself most of the time. If not spend what little time you need to finish it off before you log or dont bother… its not a big deal especially if you dont care about BiS

Galen Grey.4709:

People already find the minuscule effort required for a single daily daunting and boring… Multiplying it by 7 will make it 7 times worst.

That’s because there have been too many games that went for instant gratification in most of their content. They made it easier so people got lazier. It’s a trend of our time. Continue to cater it and it will just get worse.

People don’t value stuff anymore because they simply feel entitled instead of giving it value by having to do something for it. And no I don’t mind silly grind, that isn’t satisfying either.

It really is ok to have to work for something, but the effort/reward balance has to make sense and in this game it certainly doesn’t make any sense at all.

Gehenna.3625:

Galen Grey.4709:

People already find the minuscule effort required for a single daily daunting and boring… Multiplying it by 7 will make it 7 times worst.

That’s because there have been too many games that went for instant gratification in most of their content. They made it easier so people got lazier. It’s a trend of our time. Continue to cater it and it will just get worse.

People don’t value stuff anymore because they simply feel entitled instead of giving it value by having to do something for it. And no I don’t mind silly grind, that isn’t satisfying either.

It really is ok to have to work for something, but the effort/reward balance has to make sense and in this game it certainly doesn’t make any sense at all.

Why are people looking as video games though they should provide something to work towards? It’s not a job. I don’t want to spend tons of time working for something in a game. People do that in real life. In my video games I want instant gratification.

Why are people looking as video games though they should provide something to work towards? It’s not a job. I don’t want to spend tons of time working for something in a game. People do that in real life. In my video games I want instant gratification.

If you get everything at once you get bored and lose the purpose of playing. I can appreciate time gating to a certain extent, but feel the daily model is off. Not everyone can play every day, nor has the desire to. Why not make it a weekly system so you can choose to do one a day, or all seven on Saturday. This at least opens the system up.

Dog.1472:

Esplen.3940:

Honestly, I don’t care if people do or do not like it. It does cause other players to login which means more players. If someone is not able to login, they actually don’t need ascended.

And here we have the core of the problem. You are a communist. I am not trying to use the word as an insult, as most people I know consider it one, but rather, you are actually a communist by definition.

You have absolutely no right to tell me how or when I should be spending my time. If I want to spend 12 hours in one day farming for something, I should be able to spend 12 hours farming for something. If I don’t want to log in every day, and instead only log on during the weekend, then I should be able to do so without being penalized for it.

You need to read this and actually spend some time trying to understanding it.

“Let’s say they set the progress at 7 bananas to get an ascended helmet. You would have to spend let’s say 30 minutes every 24 hours to earn 1 banana. If you do not complete the objectives within those 24 hours, you do not get a banana.

Now let’s say because I have a job, I only get to play during the weekend. This means I only get to earn 2 bananas and it only takes me an hour to do so. Now, as I have dedicated all of my time to play to the weekend. I now have 19 more hours where I am left unable to make any sort of progress at all and I have nothing else to do.

Meanwhile, other players are able to earn that ascended helmet in 7 days, even if they only played the game for 3 and a half hours, yet it would take me almost an entire month, even though I’ve been spending over 5 times as much time playing."

This system essentially tells me that my time is not worth as much to Anet as another players simply, because I do not log in every day. That is outrageous and incredibly disrespectful to the player.

It is absolutely, positively unfair to prevent someone for making progress, even though they spend more time playing the game simply because they can’t log in every day. I value giving people the freedom to play as they can. The only way it can be fair for everyone is to reward people only for the amount of time they play, not when they play.

No you’re wrong, thats not what it means at all. The problem with your reasoning is you’re missing what a banana’s value is. You’re assuming that because it takes you 30 minutes to get a banana a banana is worth 30 minutes but it just isnt. A banana is worth a day of play time. The 30 minutes is just a way to verify you played that day nothing else.

Look at this way, perhaps it will seem more clear technically speaking it should take you 24 hours of playtime to earn a banana because a banana represents a whole day effort. That would be cruel and impossible so instead Arenanet are satisfied that you played the day by requiring a little proof, proof that takes 30 minutes to earn. You’re being given a discount on the amount of work required so to speak. Saying you diserve twice the bananas as another player because you play twice as much as them is wrong simply because its impossible to play 2 days in one.

If you can’t/don’t want to log in for 15 mins a day to get the daily why would you want to get the ascended gear it gives you? It’s only about the ascended gear, i’m sure nobody here cares about the others stuff

Draehl.2681:

If you get everything at once you get bored and lose the purpose of playing. I can appreciate time gating to a certain extent, but feel the daily model is off. Not everyone can play every day, nor has the desire to. Why not make it a weekly system so you can choose to do one a day, or all seven on Saturday. This at least opens the system up.

Even if you can play every day, who wants to log in with a list of menial tasks they’ve got to perform before they can get to the stuff the actually enjoy doing?

Shockwave.1230:

Gehenna.3625:

Galen Grey.4709:

People already find the minuscule effort required for a single daily daunting and boring… Multiplying it by 7 will make it 7 times worst.

That’s because there have been too many games that went for instant gratification in most of their content. They made it easier so people got lazier. It’s a trend of our time. Continue to cater it and it will just get worse.

People don’t value stuff anymore because they simply feel entitled instead of giving it value by having to do something for it. And no I don’t mind silly grind, that isn’t satisfying either.

It really is ok to have to work for something, but the effort/reward balance has to make sense and in this game it certainly doesn’t make any sense at all.

Why are people looking as video games though they should provide something to work towards? It’s not a job. I don’t want to spend tons of time working for something in a game. People do that in real life. In my video games I want instant gratification.

And why do people assume that working towards a goal is job related? I love working towards something and especially the sense of accomplishment that comes with it. Just getting everything handed to you on a silver platter is just not satisfying to me.

Trust me I love working towards an armour set a lot better than working in real life, but even there I get a sense of satisfaction from accomplishing goals.

And I didn’t say anything about tons of work. Again assumptions. Learn to read what it says people. I say that there needs to be some effort but not silly grind. I said that specifically.

So please only respond to what I actually wrote and not what you fantasized I wrote, ok?

So let me make it clear to you: Instant gratification is why this game is grindy.

Why? Because, as everything else is easy, there is nothing to do for people who want to do this. So they came up with some senseless grind for something you don’t really need, to throw those people a bone.

It really is people like you who make MMOs boring and mind numbingly dumb. Instant gratification means you get bored quickly and jump to the next game. It’s a short term approach to a long term type of game. That’s what has gone wrong with MMOs more than anything else. Catering to the wrong crowd is what that is and now they’re stuck with people like yourself who will never be happy unless it’s thrown at you before you’ve moved a finger.

Shockwave.1230:

If people want daily content that’s fine. It takes like 30-45 minutes to do the daily activities. I just want to be able to get get the same out of 7 hours of playing over a weekend as they get for that 30-45 minutes over 7 days, which is currently not possible.

I miss the much freer feeling Guild Wars offered and not having these reward restrictions. Why is ANet trying to control when we spend our time in game? Rewarding people who can log on daily is not fair to people who can’t.

I’m learning more and more that I prefer the style of an online RPG over an MMO, there’s a reason Guild Wars 2 is my first MMO, and that’s bcs I loved Guild Wars so much, and fell for the marketing since I trusted ANet would provide the same kind of experience with this game.

Why is it differnet exactly? if 7 hrs got you say 50 plat in the original guild wars did playing those 7 hrs in a weekend get you the same amount of plat than someone who played 7hrs every day got ? no you got 1/7 of what they got.

What the daily system does is tell you sort of look, if you play the whole 7 hours you’re going to get 50 play. but for that to be true you have to farm X for 7hrs

if you do 7hrs of other content like say vanguish you’re not going to earn more then 25plat in those 7 hrs so tell you what… play whatever you enjoy when you meet these 30 minutes requirements I am going to give you your 50 plat so then you’re free to do whatever. What you’re saying though is hey it takes 30 minutes to get 50 play so in my 7hrs I should be given 350plat. Well no.. in 7hrs you’re making 50 plat not 350plat.. the daily system is just a way to help you limit / avoid the grinding.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

If you can’t/don’t want to log in for 15 mins a day to get the daily why would you want to get the ascended gear it gives you? It’s only about the ascended gear, i’m sure nobody here cares about the others stuff

Some people have jobs and long commutes. Many a day I come home so exhausted all I can do is watch 1-2 hours of TV and go to right to bed. I understand a large portion of MMOs players are college students and I was one myself just a few years ago. With a college student schedule I can certainly agree- if you can’t find 15 minutes in your 30 hours of free time a day, then I would agree. Things can change though…

Draehl.2681:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

If you can’t/don’t want to log in for 15 mins a day to get the daily why would you want to get the ascended gear it gives you? It’s only about the ascended gear, i’m sure nobody here cares about the others stuff

Some people have jobs and long commutes. Many a day I come home so exhausted all I can do is watch 1-2 hours of TV and go to right to bed. I understand a large portion of MMOs players are college students and I was one myself just a few years ago. With a college student schedule I can certainly agree- if you can’t find 15 minutes in your 30 hours of free time a day, then I would agree. Things can change though…

So explain this…why would someone with your life, waste any time on a MMO? It’s the worst type of game for your lifestyle it would seem. If you only play here and there very casually, why would you even care about ascended gear? It’s certainly not needed. You should set more realistic goals rather than just expecting life to adjust to you. We all have different lives and that means we all have different limitations. So what?

Chicho Gosho.6507:

If you can’t/don’t want to log in for 15 mins a day to get the daily why would you want to get the ascended gear it gives you? It’s only about the ascended gear, i’m sure nobody here cares about the others stuff

The systems are an attempt to make players feel forced to log on everyday. Players who do log on everyday get those rewards. Players who can’t or don’t want to log on or who perhaps do logon but don’t want to do dailies when they are, miss out on those rewards.

Someone who is time constrained, through either their own limits or their situation, that only plays a couple days a week… even if it was for 20 hours over two days, gets 2/7ths the rewards someone who logs in daily and plays for 2 hours. That’s 20 hours for two reward chests vs 14 hours for 7 reward chests.

Obviously people’s ultimate resource is time, and a lot of people’s time is already out of thier own control. Having a gaming company try to influence further control over thier time by giving them a disadvantage over others who let them control thier time is upsetting to a lot of people. Me included.

I don’t like that Laurals, Charged Quartz, and new 500 level crafting materials are all going to be limited to once per day. These things are related to gear grind too, which leaves the taste in one’s mouth even worse for people who don’t like vertical progression.

ANet is satisfying players who want/can invest a lot of time in game. They are showing everyone that they prefer these people by catering content towards them. They aren’t giving players who can’t play daily means to achieve the same type of rewards. The crux of the matter is that all of this is related to vertical progression and there’s lots of carrot on a stick content for people who want to grind, and there’s not lots of challenging/skill based content that offers the same kind rewards.

There’s only two solutions to make the other side happy, git rid of the time gating for max stat gear, then the other side doesn’t care anywhere near as much since the grinders aren’t more powerful.

Or keep the time gating, but add skill gating so that skilled/challenge seeking players can get the same kinds of rewards. Then they avoid the time gate, pass through the skill gate and still get the rewards without investing a lot of time.

tldr;
There’s two sides to what’s going on here. People who like time gating. And people who like skill gating. There’s lot of time gated rewards in game, and it’s for the best stuff and it’s the only way to get it. There’s 0 skill gating where players can get those kinds of cool rewards by doing something once and getting something like a max stat piece of gear. ANet is showing favoritism towards one side and no attention towards the other.

Gehenna.3625:

Draehl.2681:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

If you can’t/don’t want to log in for 15 mins a day to get the daily why would you want to get the ascended gear it gives you? It’s only about the ascended gear, i’m sure nobody here cares about the others stuff

Some people have jobs and long commutes. Many a day I come home so exhausted all I can do is watch 1-2 hours of TV and go to right to bed. I understand a large portion of MMOs players are college students and I was one myself just a few years ago. With a college student schedule I can certainly agree- if you can’t find 15 minutes in your 30 hours of free time a day, then I would agree. Things can change though…

So explain this…why would someone with your life, waste any time on a MMO? It’s the worst type of game for your lifestyle it would seem. If you only play here and there very casually, why would you even care about ascended gear? It’s certainly not needed. You should set more realistic goals rather than just expecting life to adjust to you. We all have different lives and that means we all have different limitations. So what?

Who said I don’t play much? Some days the stress is low and I may play 2-3 hours a night. I play many hours over the weekend. In any case I play enough over the course of the week to more than accomplish seven dailies. I could probably knock out twenty dailies in a week. The point is locking everything down to being done in small increments every day is incredibly limiting. The point is to limit progress so players don’t exhaust content too quickly. How is forcing it into daily increments any better than into weekly or monthly increments?

Gehenna.3625:

Draehl.2681:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

If you can’t/don’t want to log in for 15 mins a day to get the daily why would you want to get the ascended gear it gives you? It’s only about the ascended gear, i’m sure nobody here cares about the others stuff

Some people have jobs and long commutes. Many a day I come home so exhausted all I can do is watch 1-2 hours of TV and go to right to bed. I understand a large portion of MMOs players are college students and I was one myself just a few years ago. With a college student schedule I can certainly agree- if you can’t find 15 minutes in your 30 hours of free time a day, then I would agree. Things can change though…

So explain this…why would someone with your life, waste any time on a MMO? It’s the worst type of game for your lifestyle it would seem. If you only play here and there very casually, why would you even care about ascended gear? It’s certainly not needed. You should set more realistic goals rather than just expecting life to adjust to you. We all have different lives and that means we all have different limitations. So what?

From my perspective, Guild Wars 1 was the only video game I would play barring a new release of Halo. GW1 was perfect for the busier type of lifestyle described. ArenaNet is the only company I have ever seen do an online game for this type of audience, and now suddenly they aren’t, yet they left an impression of promises that they were still going to. People like me want the game to have the elements that made Guild Wars so enjoyable, no vertical progression (so I never fall behind in power), a flexible build system (so I can easily experiment with different stat, skill, build combintations without having time gates to do so), and a focus on important storylines with compelling stories and good telling aspects.

I would have never played an MMO if it wasn’t ANet doing it, but they did it like other MMOs anyways, while telling me and others they were going to be conceptually different, which hardly seems to be the case when your perspective is that large amounts of time gating is bad and vertical progression is bad.

I am fighting for the ideologies that I enjoyed in Guild Wars, while having cutback my playtime, because if they aren’t going to offer what they did in that game it’s better to just not play at all and move on to other games or other things that don’t try and compel me to invest more time than I want.

Shockwave.1230:

tldr;
There’s two sides to what’s going on here. People who like time gating. And people who like skill gating. There’s lot of time gated rewards in game, and it’s for the best stuff and it’s the only way to get it. There’s 0 skill gating where players can get those kinds of cool rewards by doing something once and getting something like a max stat piece of gear. ANet is showing favoritism towards one side and no attention towards the other.

Well it is a MMO after all. I haven’t seen an MMO giving you the best after you finish one task.

Hmm i just don’t know how to explain it – you want the person who plays 1 hour a week to get the same rewards as a person playing 20 hours a week for the same time which is unfair. This is the difference, the only difference – the time you’ll need to get an item. It’s not stoping you to play the game in any way.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

you want the person who plays 1 hour a week to get the same rewards as a person playing 20 hours a week for the same time which is unfair. This is the difference, the only difference – the time you’ll need to get an item. It’s not stoping you to play the game in any way.

No, no, no, no! Come on, please read people’s arguments instead of inventing what you THINK they’re saying.

We’re saying that the person who plays 1 hour a day for seven days should be rewarded the same as someone who plays 7 hours a day for one day. Currently, that’s not the case at all. We’re also saying that the tasks shouldn’t be menial and repetitive, but fun and skill-based. I really don’t get why this is hard to understand!

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Shockwave.1230:

tldr;
There’s two sides to what’s going on here. People who like time gating. And people who like skill gating. There’s lot of time gated rewards in game, and it’s for the best stuff and it’s the only way to get it. There’s 0 skill gating where players can get those kinds of cool rewards by doing something once and getting something like a max stat piece of gear. ANet is showing favoritism towards one side and no attention towards the other.

Well it is a MMO after all. I haven’t seen an MMO giving you the best after you finish one task.

Hmm i just don’t know how to explain it – you want the person who plays 1 hour a week to get the same rewards as a person playing 20 hours a week for the same time which is unfair. This is the difference, the only difference – the time you’ll need to get an item. It’s not stoping you to play the game in any way.

Then more time has to be put into the game. Potentially more than people want to invest.

Something that a lot of people playing Guild Wars 2 who never played Guild Wars 1 don’t understand is that Guild Wars 1 gave us what we’re describing.

Time gates only existed for cosmetics and titles.

There was no time gating having or playing multiple character builds, because there was nothing associated with character builds that was time gated (which in Gw2’s case is gear). We were also 100% free to adjust our builds while not in an instance and it didn’t cost any currency.

There was no focus on vertical progression, it was horizontal progression all the way. You got to max level (20) in around under 30 hours just by playing. Max stat gear was obtainable before max level, but more importantly it was a fixed price that was cheap and it wasn’t a dynamic price that could be manipulated by economic gaming.

Weapons with the best mods were affordable. The only mod that was anything like the Guild Wars economy was called Rune of Superior Vigor, but fortunately the difference in a character’s health between Major Vigor and Superior vigor was less than 2%, unless you grabbed a bunch of runes that lowered your health pool to below 500.

Basically what it comes down to, is that vertical progression was pretty much non-existant (Mike O’brien even said so), and time gating only impacted Titles and Cosmetics for gear. These are the biggest things, and this meant for me that my attention could be paid to the things I like, such as playing different kinds of builds to find out how different ideas worked in various situaitons, or figuring out how to get the most out of my playstyle and builds. Since the game resolves around combat this is incredibly important. I didn’t have to grind out fractal levels or agony resistance to experience the most challenging content, I just went to the “elite areas” without having to repeat them get to the most difficult point.

Draehl.2681:

Who said I don’t play much? Some days the stress is low and I may play 2-3 hours a night. I play many hours over the weekend. In any case I play enough over the course of the week to more than accomplish seven dailies. I could probably knock out twenty dailies in a week. The point is locking everything down to being done in small increments every day is incredibly limiting. The point is to limit progress so players don’t exhaust content too quickly. How is forcing it into daily increments any better than into weekly or monthly increments?

Well it sounded like that was what you were saying complaining about working and commuting.

But yeah, I do agree with you there. I think dailies themselves are a good idea as such, but not that that’s the way to get BiS gear.

Galen Grey.4709:

Smith.1826:

That’s understandable, except I don’t think this should all be at the expense of people who are responsible with their playtime.

I has to be a balance. Thats what the daily system does. Try to balance necessary evils with fun.

Except those evils aren’t necessary. And there’s no fun included.

Shockwave.1230:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Shockwave.1230:

tldr;
There’s two sides to what’s going on here. People who like time gating. And people who like skill gating. There’s lot of time gated rewards in game, and it’s for the best stuff and it’s the only way to get it. There’s 0 skill gating where players can get those kinds of cool rewards by doing something once and getting something like a max stat piece of gear. ANet is showing favoritism towards one side and no attention towards the other.

Well it is a MMO after all. I haven’t seen an MMO giving you the best after you finish one task.

Hmm i just don’t know how to explain it – you want the person who plays 1 hour a week to get the same rewards as a person playing 20 hours a week for the same time which is unfair. This is the difference, the only difference – the time you’ll need to get an item. It’s not stoping you to play the game in any way.

Then more time has to be put into the game. Potentially more than people want to invest.

Something that a lot of people playing Guild Wars 2 who never played Guild Wars 1 don’t understand is that Guild Wars 1 gave us what we’re describing.

Time gates only existed for cosmetics and titles.

There was no time gating having or playing multiple character builds, because there was nothing associated with character builds that was time gated (which in Gw2’s case is gear). We were also 100% free to adjust our builds while not in an instance and it didn’t cost any currency.

There was no focus on vertical progression, it was horizontal progression all the way. You got to max level (20) in around under 30 hours just by playing. Max stat gear was obtainable before max level, but more importantly it was a fixed price that was cheap and it wasn’t a dynamic price that could be manipulated by economic gaming.

Weapons with the best mods were affordable. The only mod that was anything like the Guild Wars economy was called Rune of Superior Vigor, but fortunately the difference in a character’s health between Major Vigor and Superior vigor was less than 2%, unless you grabbed a bunch of runes that lowered your health pool to below 500.

Basically what it comes down to, is that vertical progression was pretty much non-existant (Mike O’brien even said so), and time gating only impacted Titles and Cosmetics for gear. These are the biggest things, and this meant for me that my attention could be paid to the things I like, such as playing different kinds of builds to find out how different ideas worked in various situaitons, or figuring out how to get the most out of my playstyle and builds. Since the game resolves around combat this is incredibly important. I didn’t have to grind out fractal levels or agony resistance to experience the most challenging content, I just went to the “elite areas” without having to repeat them get to the most difficult point.

If you liked GW1 so much why do you care about stats on items? You can do absolutely everything with exotics only. Fractals are made for those who liked vertical progression and this is the best ANet could have done to make them happy. One dungeon completely separate from the world for them to enjoy.

You want to eat a “Snickers” but you don’t like peanuts.
You want to get ascended gear but you don’t like the path to take them.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

If you liked GW1 so much why do you care about stats on items? You can do absolutely everything with exotics only. Fractals are made for those who liked vertical progression and this is the best ANet could have done to make them happy. One dungeon completely separate from the world for them to enjoy.

You want to eat a “Snickers” but you don’t like peanuts.
You want to get ascended gear but you don’t like the path to take them.

fair comment to a point. The only problem is that it’s dead easy to get exotics. So once you have those and don’t care for that tetris dungeon, there’s nothing else to do at 80 but grind for a legendary…that’s not a lot.

Sure you can run dungeons, but the problem is that doesn’t last long either because if you happen to like one or two of the armour sets (cause most look like crap let’s be honest), there just nothing left after a short time to progress….unless you get into the treadmill of treadmills which is fotm.

GW1 had lots of exciting skins to collect. GW2 doesn’t. I don’t need GW1 back…it was great but it’s in the past now, but I sure wish they got their design team from then back.