Guild Wars 2

OriOri.8724:

Tumult.2578:

As I see it now, I have about 5 months left till the cap, and then anet doesn’t want me here anymore.

Way I see it, ANet wants people to actually do something in this game instead of play for 5 minutes and get 10 more AP.

I’d be more inclined to say that ANet wants people to log in at all. Playing is a bonus. No log-in, no contact with the player. No contact, no chance to upsell cosmetics, content bumps, or expansions.

Granted, once players get to logging in, of course ANet wants them to play. That’s increased time commitment that can be tilted toward the upsell. And I don’t even mean that in a sinister way. But if they lose players for any perceived “meh,” there’s a good chance they might not come back.

I would like to join in on this

So im not a AP hunter thought im at 28.3 AP. It mostly since i have been playing since Pre and i do a bit of everything. I would like to say a few things.

1- The daily cap is a good thing, no reason for people to have 50k AP because they do dailies. 15k for monthly and dailies was good. I think having alot of AP shows you play all aspects of the game and it shouldnt be grinded too. So the AP from LS, events, WvW, PvP shows a players commitment to the game. Which makes the titles more enjoyable for the players who have spent the time in the game.

2- I and many guild members think people are having a issue with AP is simply because there has been a lack of content. For instance i have not done the TD-DS maps and i am at 130 HOT level because i dont have the mastery points.

There are just some aspects of HOT that many people just dont like. For me its the zerg meta events which cause maps to be empty when the event isnt going on. I did core Tyria with 2 characters to 100% and full ascended gear before HOT came out. I am yet to finish all 4 HOT maps with all my characters combined.

Throw that with each map has its own currency, there are things i and some guildies want but dont want to do AB meta event 100 times. It just wont happen. So now AB-TD-DS- blood stone fen -Ember Bay all have there own currencies. It takes away from the game to the people ive talked too.

The immersion is gone, we spend more time now looking for squads ( though the LFG doesnt remove full maps) or events to grind then playing to get certain items.

This is another reason why alot of people are asking for AP dailys to come back.

3- Hidden AP
This one gets a topic because it strikes me wrong. Its a really odd thing to hide things away from players. For instance i still havent taken down all the posters and Ebonhawke stuff but i know where it is if i want to go for it 1 day. This is something i know i could do if i have free time.

So HOT as well as the new farming maps are striking people wrong, the lack of content for alot of players who are not raiding every week and then to cap off hidden AP that people are now starting to find.

I know a few people who are frustrated with the game. They dont raid and struggle to get in these meta event maps. They can only farm a map so much before they dont ever want to go back. Halloween became a zerg fest with only the easy dungeon and LAB to do for rewards.

So all in all you have people stuck all over the game. Alot of people bought HOT since they were done with core Tyria.

If you dont raid, dont like looking for squads in maps for AB-TD-DS and are tired of the new farm maps. This person here which i have 2-3 guild mates who are. They simply log in and not sure what to do other then dailies which they dont get AP for.

I understand both sides, i dont think daily cap should be fixed. I like where it is. I think Anet needs to put out some content where it keeps people active with the amount of content instead of asking people to farm maps/raids.

Rauderi.8706:

I’d be more inclined to say that ANet wants people to log in at all. Playing is a bonus. No log-in, no contact with the player. No contact, no chance to upsell cosmetics, content bumps, or expansions.

Granted, once players get to logging in, of course ANet wants them to play. That’s increased time commitment that can be tilted toward the upsell. And I don’t even mean that in a sinister way. But if they lose players for any perceived “meh,” there’s a good chance they might not come back.

This. Before, I was used to find something else to do while I doing daily stuff. Like guildies forming fractal party, something new in gemshop worth looking and farming to buy, some ongoing events, some achievement popped in almost finished tab. But when there is no reason to log, then there is no possibility to actually become interested and involved into anything.

Rednik.3809:

Rauderi.8706:

I’d be more inclined to say that ANet wants people to log in at all. Playing is a bonus. No log-in, no contact with the player. No contact, no chance to upsell cosmetics, content bumps, or expansions.

Granted, once players get to logging in, of course ANet wants them to play. That’s increased time commitment that can be tilted toward the upsell. And I don’t even mean that in a sinister way. But if they lose players for any perceived “meh,” there’s a good chance they might not come back.

This. Before, I was used to find something else to do while I doing daily stuff. Like guildies forming fractal party, something new in gemshop worth looking and farming to buy, some ongoing events, some achievement popped in almost finished tab. But when there is no reason to log, then there is no possibility to actually become interested and involved into anything.

That’s the thing. There is a reason to log in other than dailies. Everything you listed was a reason to login. The fact that you think that dailies are the only reason to even login to the game is a telltale sign that you don’t enjoy it anymore like you used to. Seriously. Go find another game if playing GW2 is as much of a chore as you make it out to be in this thread. Simply removing the AP cap on dailies will not create new content. And even if new content were to be introduced I doubt you would even care because you wouldn’t be able to get dailies from logging in to do it, and with every post you make in this thread it sounds more and more like that was your only motivation to login.

Increasing the cap won’t create new content. It won’t solve the core issue, which is not enough AP is available for players to chase after, especially considering there are skins for 42k AP and no one can get above 33k AP right now (and anyone who missed LWS1 is even more screwed).

Rauderi.8706:

I’d be more inclined to say that ANet wants people to log in at all. Playing is a bonus. No log-in, no contact with the player. No contact, no chance to upsell cosmetics, content bumps, or expansions.

Granted, once players get to logging in, of course ANet wants them to play. That’s increased time commitment that can be tilted toward the upsell. And I don’t even mean that in a sinister way. But if they lose players for any perceived “meh,” there’s a good chance they might not come back.

I’ve become one of those people you describe. I rarely, if ever, post here now. Won’t get into the reasons why. I’m pretty much playing something else too. Log into game. Log out of game. When I hit the AP cap, I felt less inclined to bother. And it seems I’m not alone. The newest quarterly numbers appear to back your opinion.

Sadly, it is what it is.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Rauderi.8706:

I’d be more inclined to say that ANet wants people to log in at all. Playing is a bonus. No log-in, no contact with the player. No contact, no chance to upsell cosmetics, content bumps, or expansions.

Granted, once players get to logging in, of course ANet wants them to play. That’s increased time commitment that can be tilted toward the upsell. And I don’t even mean that in a sinister way. But if they lose players for any perceived “meh,” there’s a good chance they might not come back.

I’ve become one of those people you describe. I rarely, if ever, post here now. Won’t get into the reasons why. I’m pretty much playing something else too. Log into game. Log out of game. When I hit the AP cap, I felt less inclined to bother. And it seems I’m not alone. The newest quarterly numbers appear to back your opinion.

Sadly, it is what it is.

The newest quarterly numbers do not give us any information about veterans taking a break (or leaving) — the huge downward trend the previous quarter was due to lower sales of the expac, which doesn’t include veterans reaching the daily cap.

It could very well be the case that veterans are also leaving in greater numbers because of the cap, but us players won’t be able to measure if that’s true. Attrition is normal and increases the more people play; it’s hard for any game to retain people’s attention for more than a year or two.

For this veteran? It’s true. The game’s held my attention for over four years, I believe. Like I said before, once I hit the AP cap, my interest instantly dwindled. I also said it appears the numbers back Rauderi’s opinion.

I’m not here to argue. I only offer my opinion. And that was my experience.

I think ANet is making a mistake in keeping the cap.

All MMOs require logins and they should do what they can to encourage this. Setting up a daily list with AP points and other rewards is an obvious encouragement. But why then remove part of the rewards?

The game should only remove rewards, imo, if they want to discourage an activity or they have an overriding reason. Presumably they do not want to discourage 15k AP players from logging in. That leaves the overriding reason.

So what is this reason? So far I’ve seen stated that the game should not reward disproportionately more AP to trivial dailies (while ignoring that non daily AP are often trivial also). That’s all fine and well, but should a feeling that an entertainment venue have a certain proportion of AP allotted to this or that override the game’s need to retain players by as many methods as it can?

The last quarters earnings show that the game is holding steady from the previous dismal earnings. In spite of their best efforts the game is not showing income growth. I think ANet should reconsider the cap in an effort to retain as many vets as possible. They should not be cutting off rewards to their most loyal players in order to keep some arbitrary ratio between daily and non daily AP.

Ive just hit 20K, and I cant seem to earn any decent amount of AP without it taking years. The 10 a day is really my only reasonable resource left.
Whats worse is, there are many collections and achievements that are a lot of effort, where you rruly feel like you achieved something, and then you get 1-3 ap formit. 1-3?? Thats peanuts. Thats nothing. Thats a drop in the ocean. I think AP should reflect the difficulty or time spend to be more realistic. If a collection is going to take more than 2 weeks, make it worth more 3x 1AP

OriOri.8724:

Rednik.3809:

Rauderi.8706:

I’d be more inclined to say that ANet wants people to log in at all. Playing is a bonus. No log-in, no contact with the player. No contact, no chance to upsell cosmetics, content bumps, or expansions.

Granted, once players get to logging in, of course ANet wants them to play. That’s increased time commitment that can be tilted toward the upsell. And I don’t even mean that in a sinister way. But if they lose players for any perceived “meh,” there’s a good chance they might not come back.

This. Before, I was used to find something else to do while I doing daily stuff. Like guildies forming fractal party, something new in gemshop worth looking and farming to buy, some ongoing events, some achievement popped in almost finished tab. But when there is no reason to log, then there is no possibility to actually become interested and involved into anything.

That’s the thing. There is a reason to log in other than dailies. Everything you listed was a reason to login. The fact that you think that dailies are the only reason to even login to the game is a telltale sign that you don’t enjoy it anymore like you used to. Seriously. Go find another game if playing GW2 is as much of a chore as you make it out to be in this thread.

There’s plenty of reasons to log in, but what changed is that there’s no reason to log in today and today I won’t. Tomorrow? Probably not. I’ll probably play a game that doesn’t reward every log in with a pop-up reminding me I’ve been playing too often for too long

Pache.9406

Not Raids, not WvW, not sPvP, not working towards a legendary, not having fun with friends playing the game……….none of that……just doing dailies……… smfh If you really think you’re not having fun anymore because you maxed out on daily AP, just do the whole community a favor and gtfo.

Why are you in a hurry to consider you know better than me what is fun for me? Is as I read now the posts of one of the living classics of this forum :-)

But I think this post shows again that the actual trend is: “Let the devs decide, because they knows better than you what you want.” Here with a little variation: " I decided for you that if you don’t like X and Y and Z aspects you should leave the game. "

Back to topic: I consider every cap on every thing to be an arbitrary barer. The level/value of this barer is set up by others (because, you know, they knows better than us what is good for us). What the partisans of this approach miss is that the persons deciding the level of barer are humans and as every human they can make mistakes. And another aspect: If you set-up a barer (no matter how high it is), at one moment that point will be reached by the players. It seems that the person(s) setting the barer never took this into consideration.

The daily AP was designed as a reward system helping the player to find a reason to login daily – this implies that the designers of the game were fully aware that at one moment any player will loose the interest for the game (either because of becoming tired of the game, RL reasons – a job / a family etc – or because he found another activity. Well, with this reward system the developers found a way to keep a player interested in the game after doing everything doable and after achieving most of the achievements of the game.

But – and this is the crazy point for me – at one moment the reward is denied for a certain part of the playerbase – the veterans. To reach the limit of 15 k AP from daily login you need over 4 years.

It seems that after reaching this lvl, ANet is suggesting the players to take a break. And to leave the game. Exactly what Pache says :-)). But this is contradicting the original purpose of the daily AP reward. A new player don’t need this – he has plenty of things to do. This is necessary to keep a veteran playing.

I only play for almost 2 years. I’m far away from the 15k daily AP cap (in the first months I never done the dailies – I had many other aspects of the game to discover), so I need another 3 years to reach the cap. I don’t know if I will still play the game at that time. But the cap seems an artificial barer for me in a game supposed to last longer than that.

I will vote anytime for a complete lift of this cap.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Rauderi.8706:

I’d be more inclined to say that ANet wants people to log in at all. Playing is a bonus. No log-in, no contact with the player. No contact, no chance to upsell cosmetics, content bumps, or expansions.

Granted, once players get to logging in, of course ANet wants them to play. That’s increased time commitment that can be tilted toward the upsell. And I don’t even mean that in a sinister way. But if they lose players for any perceived “meh,” there’s a good chance they might not come back.

I’ve become one of those people you describe. I rarely, if ever, post here now. Won’t get into the reasons why. I’m pretty much playing something else too. Log into game. Log out of game. When I hit the AP cap, I felt less inclined to bother. And it seems I’m not alone. The newest quarterly numbers appear to back your opinion.

Sadly, it is what it is.

The newest quarterly numbers do not give us any information about veterans taking a break (or leaving) — the huge downward trend the previous quarter was due to lower sales of the expac, which doesn’t include veterans reaching the daily cap.

It could very well be the case that veterans are also leaving in greater numbers because of the cap, but us players won’t be able to measure if that’s true. Attrition is normal and increases the more people play; it’s hard for any game to retain people’s attention for more than a year or two.

Maybe you cant use the quarterly numbers as a link to people leaving, but in game via friends/guilds etc there are at least 30 players I know that only log in now get log in bonus and log out, after hitting cap, ( its not so much that the cap is there, its the fact there is a cap full stop ) its silly, and was put into place because of silly reasons also,

On the its hard to retain people attention, I don’t know about that, I played GW1 from beta until GW2 launched and ive played GW2 since launch, and the only thing that is putting me off is the giant wall Anet put in front of me, but its ok, as like others have said its what Anet wants, im not a casual player, im not the target audience for this game, so in 3 days when I hit the cap, I will also be a player who just logs in for daily reward and logs out.

Daily cap has to stay and even decreased to ~5.000 all together. Every thing else is bad!

Ok I Did It.2854:

On the its hard to retain people attention, I don’t know about that, I played GW1 from beta until GW2 launched and ive played GW2 since launch, and the only thing that is putting me off is the giant wall Anet put in front of me, but its ok, as like others have said its what Anet wants, im not a casual player, im not the target audience for this game, so in 3 days when I hit the cap, I will also be a player who just logs in for daily reward and logs out.

You were logging in to play GW1 for the daily AP for all those years?

Amaimon.7823:

Ive just hit 20K, and I cant seem to earn any decent amount of AP without it taking years. The 10 a day is really my only reasonable resource left.
Whats worse is, there are many collections and achievements that are a lot of effort, where you rruly feel like you achieved something, and then you get 1-3 ap formit. 1-3?? Thats peanuts. Thats nothing. Thats a drop in the ocean. I think AP should reflect the difficulty or time spend to be more realistic. If a collection is going to take more than 2 weeks, make it worth more 3x 1AP

A fine point to reiterate, yes. AP from permanent sources is just not scaled well to the effort and time it takes to accomplish the achievements. I fully agree with OriOri that we should have permanent rewards with meaningful AP values, and that content should be released steadily, so that AP hunters can feel that accomplishment.

As I’ve said before, dailies do give a somewhat absurd AP reward for tasks that are really simple. At the same time, cutting off the AP flow entirely demotivates from logging in. And to say “go play another game” in response to that is part of the problem. As players do go play other games, the odds of them coming back are even lower than if they just check in once or twice a week. Contact with the game allows/improves up-selling.

The issue goes beyond “AP Cap” and into the realm of AP Revamp. There need to be workflows in place during development to ensure aces and achievers get their form of gameplay by having meaningful recognition for challenging content. Veterans and the daily dedicated players deserve to have a minor reward for doing something more than logging in. We have login rewards, but they’re literally get-on/get-off without interacting at all. No time sunk into it, no time to check on guildies. Dailies as a rewards-sampler spur that extra time in game, which means building/maintaining social connections, playing content, and eventually checking out the gem store.

Part of that reform/revamp is putting kitten in the cap and letting the AP leak out a bit. Not the 10-per-day gusher that the first 15,000 points are. 3 tasks, 3AP. Leaderboard doesn’t have to chase it every day, as was their complaint before, but the trickle of points ought to be sufficient for veterans to continue logging in.

Amaimon.7823:

Ive just hit 20K, and I cant seem to earn any decent amount of AP without it taking years. The 10 a day is really my only reasonable resource left.
Whats worse is, there are many collections and achievements that are a lot of effort, where you rruly feel like you achieved something, and then you get 1-3 ap formit. 1-3?? Thats peanuts. Thats nothing. Thats a drop in the ocean. I think AP should reflect the difficulty or time spend to be more realistic. If a collection is going to take more than 2 weeks, make it worth more 3x 1AP

To be fair a lot of those collections have other rewards that, well I’d call better than the AP rewarded. The Specialization collections for example. It’s only 3AP for a complete collection, on the other hand you do get an ascended weapon with a unique skin. I’d call getting that worth it even if they awarded 0AP. The legendary weapon collections, well same idea, people are doing them for the weapon, not the AP. A lot of the other collections that have small AP rewards come with a good other reward.

I would like the cap removed personally. Don’t care if points were awarded retroactively or not. Some of the AP rewards along the road (the skins mainly) seem unobtainable now that I can’t get AP everyday.

Sinmir.6504:

Amaimon.7823:

Ive just hit 20K, and I cant seem to earn any decent amount of AP without it taking years. The 10 a day is really my only reasonable resource left.
Whats worse is, there are many collections and achievements that are a lot of effort, where you rruly feel like you achieved something, and then you get 1-3 ap formit. 1-3?? Thats peanuts. Thats nothing. Thats a drop in the ocean. I think AP should reflect the difficulty or time spend to be more realistic. If a collection is going to take more than 2 weeks, make it worth more 3x 1AP

To be fair a lot of those collections have other rewards that, well I’d call better than the AP rewarded. The Specialization collections for example. It’s only 3AP for a complete collection, on the other hand you do get an ascended weapon with a unique skin. I’d call getting that worth it even if they awarded 0AP. The legendary weapon collections, well same idea, people are doing them for the weapon, not the AP. A lot of the other collections that have small AP rewards come with a good other reward.

I’m desperate for AP at the moment. I want some more hellfire armor pieces, and they’re locked behind a rather ridiculous wall. (reason is, I’m a destroyer fanboy, and Hellfire is about the only fiery gear in the game that covers the entire body).

at 20K, I’ve come to the point of scraping them, and I don’t really care for the secondary items, since I do want the actual AP. I want not an achievement that takes a week to complete and give me 3ap and an ascended weapon, I need an achievement that takes a week to complete and give me 20ap and no ascended weapon.

I’ve tried getting into raids, but the time/ap ratio is terrible. it takes weeks and weeks to get 5-10ap, so thats retroactively less than 1ap a day

I dont even understand why people are so interested in more easy AP.
There is nothing valuable in AP chests imo, the skins arent that special, the gold is neglible and the rest is very useless. Whenever i get one its more that i think, "oh god what do i do with this sh… and how do i get rid of it. I suppose the 1-2% are nice in the long run, but not hugely significant. (Also a reason for the cap I suppose, you dont want that stuff run out of hand.)

When people here argue that somehow players playing more easy tasks and coming back like some addict and that the game then somehow becomes better, Just because of something very very little as 10 AP, I start to lose faith in humanity. The 2 gold that comes with it is much more valuable than the AP.

It would be better to suggest that the daily gold amount goes up to 3 gold once you hit daily cap ( or whatever fits) because that actually i can see make sense.

FrizzFreston.5290:

I dont even understand why people are so interested in more easy AP.
There is nothing valuable in AP chests imo, the skins arent that special, the gold is neglible and the rest is very useless. Whenever i get one its more that i think, "oh god what do i do with this sh… and how do i get rid of it. I suppose the 1-2% are nice in the long run, but not hugely significant. (Also a reason for the cap I suppose, you dont want that stuff run out of hand.)

When people here argue that somehow players playing more easy tasks and coming back like some addict and that the game then somehow becomes better, Just because of something very very little as 10 AP, I start to lose faith in humanity. The 2 gold that comes with it is much more valuable than the AP.

It would be better to suggest that the daily gold amount goes up to 3 gold once you hit daily cap ( or whatever fits) because that actually i can see make sense.

Obligatory ‘Can I have your AP’
Useless to you, maybe, but I’m scraping because I desperately need the Hellfire armor because its the only fiery armor in the game that isn’t rags’n’bones

For those who “need” the Hellfire / Radiant sets, there is a total of 7 skins, 6 armor pieces + backpack. If they re-arranged how often you got those skins and you were able to finish one of the two sets before moving to the next one, that would mean 21k AP would give you all 7 pieces. And then the second set at 42k (as it is now)

That would solve all problems with skin acquisition. Then, in the future, they should never allow preview of any of the AP skins, or even implement them, until it’s possible that someone gets those skins.

maddoctor.2738:

For those who “need” the Hellfire / Radiant sets, there is a total of 7 skins, 6 armor pieces + backpack. If they re-arranged how often you got those skins and you were able to finish one of the two sets before moving to the next one, that would mean 21k AP would give you all 7 pieces. And then the second set at 42k (as it is now)

That would solve all problems with skin acquisition. Then, in the future, they should never allow preview of any of the AP skins, or even implement them, until it’s possible that someone gets those skins.

Im also fine with reorganizing, I got 3 hellfire pieces and 3 ugly whitelight pieces. I never wanted the ugly whitelight pieces, but I wasnt allowed to finish my hellfire set. Had I got the other 3 hellfire pieces, I dont think I would ever have bothered with noncollection/challenge achievements ever again. I dont care about the leaderboards or whatever, I just want.. need the hellfire set

Malediktus.3740:

You forgot an option in your pull:

- Delete daily achievement points from the game since dailies are not achievements.

If they do this they should delete all achievement points earned from dailies retroactively.

mtpelion.4562:

They should never have given AP for dailies in the first place. Keep the cap, as that puts an eventual end to their mistake.

Or at least give just 1 point, not 10 – i mean how much work have i to do for gaining just 5 points? (after the character is around a year old and therefore reached a lot of achiefments) and now compare that to the daily…

….yeah, that’s how i got most of my points, by doing the daily, a friend of mine who plays longer than me and doesn’t care for the dailys as much but the ‘honest’ achiefmentponts has no chance of getting near my point level…. just because i make one PvP game a day…

Here’s an idea.

1. Remove all daily/monthly AP, retroactively.
2. Remove reward chests from the accumulation of AP (not retroactively). Achievement hunters instead gain position on the leaderboard. Add titles to various points on the board which someone can display if they want to display their achievement level.
3. Remove the XP requirement from Masteries and convert to a points-only system, then make sure there are more than enough points to give people options.
4. Take the former AP rewards and use them to provide a benefit for the gain of XP post-80.

Who wins:

• Players who hunt AP seriously. No more concerns about AP being devalued by easy dailies. Since AP hunting is play-intensive by nature, these players will still gain the rewards formerly associated with AP because they will gain XP while AP hunting. In addition, they’d gain exclusive titles to show off their accomplishments.
• Players who just want the reward chests. If someone wants a reason to play regularly and was using those chests as the incentive, they can now log in regularly and play whatever they like, including dailies, and progress.
• Players who dislike the XP grind for Masteries.
• Players who dislike the (currently trivial) post-80 level tick reward being gated behind completionism.
• Anyone who wants post-80 XP to be meaningful.

Who loses:

• Players who want the AP skins behind an achievement barrier.

What does ANet gain?

• Additional reward goals for general play.
• No more concerns about the daily AP cap.
• They would have addressed the concerns of several demographics unhappy about one thing or another.

@IndigoSundown.5419

Take the former AP rewards and use them to provide a benefit for the gain of XP post-80.

Interesting suggestion. However does this mean that new players and people who have alts below level 80 won’t make progress on this while leveling? (Tomes and writs might be an issue also if they do progress below 80).

Just a flesh wound.3589:

@IndigoSundown.5419

Take the former AP rewards and use them to provide a benefit for the gain of XP post-80.

Interesting suggestion. However does this mean that new players and people who have alts below level 80 won’t make progress on this while leveling? (Tomes and writs might be an issue also if they do progress below 80).

Sounds like it would be, but it’s not too different a scenario than “losing” mastery XP by playing an underleveled character. I say that because that’s how I felt until I hit my mastery cap. Getting to 80 isn’t a huge issue, and most of a character’s lifetime is spent at max level.

I’m digging Indigo’s suggestion.

Rauderi.8706:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

@IndigoSundown.5419

Take the former AP rewards and use them to provide a benefit for the gain of XP post-80.

Interesting suggestion. However does this mean that new players and people who have alts below level 80 won’t make progress on this while leveling? (Tomes and writs might be an issue also if they do progress below 80).

Sounds like it would be, but it’s not too different a scenario than “losing” mastery XP by playing an underleveled character. I say that because that’s how I felt until I hit my mastery cap. Getting to 80 isn’t a huge issue, and most of a character’s lifetime is spent at max level.

I’m digging Indigo’s suggestion.

Most of any one character’s lifetime is spent at max level, but not necesarily most of a player’s playtime. While an interesting idea this would be a direct nerf to those leveling alts. Any time someone gets on a sub level 80 for any reason whatsoever all progress towards the next AP reward comes to a halt.

The comparison towards Mastery is limited because you reach the caps on leveling masteries fairly fast. This would be a continuous nerf to leveling alts.

IndigoSundown

3.Remove the XP requirement from Masteries and convert to a points-only system, then make sure there are more than enough points to give people options.

I like your ideas. For this point, did you mean experience points, or did you have some other points system in mind? The previous comments re: concern about playing sub-80’s may go away if it isn’t strictly XP being used.

[edit] I usually have 1-3 sub-80’s I play out of many possible toons, and I wouldn’t have a problem if they did not add to the “points” since as it is, they don’t add to mastery points, and right now I’m one of those “wasting XP” due to my lack of focus on mastery points.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Here’s an idea.

1. Remove all daily/monthly AP, retroactively.
2. Remove reward chests from the accumulation of AP (not retroactively). Achievement hunters instead gain position on the leaderboard. Add titles to various points on the board which someone can display if they want to display their achievement level.
3. Remove the XP requirement from Masteries and convert to a points-only system, then make sure there are more than enough points to give people options.
4. Take the former AP rewards and use them to provide a benefit for the gain of XP post-80.

Not sure why the mastery system needs to be dragged into this. Plus it heavily favours grinding for XP, rather than avoiding it. Instead of grinding xp for masteries, you’re grinding xp for rewards. Meaning it would affect how people play the game on a fundamental level. Going for the XP grinds of certain dungeon paths and mob grinders just to get the most XP in the shortest time. That doesn’t seem that good at all. Dailies put everyone on an equal level.

Plus it would implicate WvW and PvP, as gaining XP there is very limited. Unless you drag in XP tomes, which just would break the whole system apart as people have loads stacked up making the rewards basically worthless.

I think that XP grind can be pretty bad if you’re focussed on the XP but, since the launch of gw2, gaining xp never was too big of a problem. I think the incremental XP grind of masteries however, is a bigger issue. Since you spend a very long time not really feeling like you’re progressing. (it’s basically one bar for 16 levels at once or so, which just breaks rewarding feeling of the system apart, and make it feel like a longwinded grind).

Just a flesh wound.3589:

@IndigoSundown.5419

Interesting suggestion. However does this mean that new players and people who have alts below level 80 won’t make progress on this while leveling? (Tomes and writs might be an issue also if they do progress below 80).

Yes, it does. As an alter, I’d be happy to make that sacrifice, though I can see why some others might not. However, it’s not that it takes a long time to level to 80, even for a new player. As far as Writs go, make them usable post-80. Post-80 tomes could still give shards, or a level’s worth of XP. I’d favor the former since the game shoves Tomes down our throats.

Also, it would be more of a problem for a new player. For vets, most of the AP available in leveling content were gained long ago.

DeanBB.4268:

I like your ideas. For this point, did you mean experience points, or did you have some other points system in mind? The previous comments re: concern about playing sub-80’s may go away if it isn’t strictly XP being used.

I meant Mastery points as they exist now, but with perhaps more options to gain them. This is because Post-80 XP is currently tied to the Mastery system and I was trying to avoid the whole, “You must complete Masteries to access post 80 level tick rewards thing.” If it is possible to set it up to choose whether XP goes to masteries or a reward track, I’d be OK with that.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Not sure why the mastery system needs to be dragged into this. Plus it heavily favours grinding for XP, rather than avoiding it. Instead of grinding xp for masteries, you’re grinding xp for rewards. Meaning it would affect how people play the game on a fundamental level. Going for the XP grinds of certain dungeon paths and mob grinders just to get the most XP in the shortest time. That doesn’t seem that good at all. Dailies put everyone on an equal level.

Plus it would implicate WvW and PvP, as gaining XP there is very limited. Unless you drag in XP tomes, which just would break the whole system apart as people have loads stacked up making the rewards basically worthless.

I think that XP grind can be pretty bad if you’re focussed on the XP but, since the launch of gw2, gaining xp never was too big of a problem. I think the incremental XP grind of masteries however, is a bigger issue. Since you spend a very long time not really feeling like you’re progressing. (it’s basically one bar for 16 levels at once or so, which just breaks rewarding feeling of the system apart, and make it feel like a longwinded grind).

I “dragged Masteries into it” for several reasons: some people are unhappy with the mastery system’s XP requirements; ANet tied post-80 XP to Masteries and chose not to allow people to choose to allocate it to a post-80 level tick reward instead of Masteries; and ANet loves addressing multiple issues with one change. I’d be fine with the rewards being available without changing the Mastery System — as long as people don’t have to complete Masteries to use it.

Yes, some people would grind XP in the fastest-to-get content in order to get the rewards faster. This is why we see more and more rewards tied to specific content rather than generally available. The losers with the current trend, though, are players who want a reward available via playing what they want, rather than having to dance the specific content tango. Perhaps it’s time for the pendulum to swing in their direction for once, and ANet can live with the idea that some players will path-of-least-resistance the rewards. As to grind in general, I don’t find grinding AP to be any better than grinding XP.

As to PvP/WvW, there’s always reward tracks.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yes, some people would grind XP in the fastest-to-get content in order to get the rewards faster.

So wait, you want to tie a reward of 400 gems to just grinding random xp anywhere you want? Am I missing something or you want to make the game “work” and not “play”? Or by removing the reward chests you meant only the armor skins?

@IndigoSundown.5419

Like I said, it’s an interesting idea but I would expect a lot of complaints from those who don’t appreciate being cut off from AP progression while on non level 80s. Just look at the threads that have been made about the spirit shards not being available unless you do at least one raid.

I also think you underestimate the number of people who have alts and who level them solely by playing. I myself have 10 level 80s and 3 in progress. If you assume 3 weeks to get to 80 by casually playing an hour or two a day (which is about what it takes me) that’s about 500 hours of playtime to level 12 alts. This is a substantial nerf in AP progression that people who have no alts wouldn’t have to take. Maybe most people wouldn’t care or maybe they won’t notice but I’m not seeing the necessity to restrict XP —> AP to only level 80s. XP is the same for both.

I’ve seen a few of these threads before and everybody who wants the Daily AP cap lifted, blames the cap for their current lack of interest ingame, rather than the inbalance of point distribution on achievements themselves. That and the fact that new content which is awarding the AP is coming in slowly and staggered.

My personal suggestion is to not remove the cap but to add more repeatable achievements ingame that award 5/10 AP per repeat.

For example, the Dungeon Hobby Explorer, capped at 200 points should be increased to 500 points.

The new Dungeon Frequenter (that awards 5g) should award either 5g or 10AP.

A repeatable Fractal Frequenter which awards 10AP.

A repeatable WvW event achievement. (Not unlike the PvE’s versions “Local Hero” and “Emergency Response Hero”)

A repeatable PvP match frequenter. A repeatable select map frequenter. Individual map achievements for each map that aren’t time sensitive.

I could go on…

I would have no objection to the cap staying in place if they increased the amount of AP for doing new content to the level that it allowed reasonable, steady progress. They are far to stingy with AP at this point. A handful of points for doing new content and then no new content for months is beyond meager.

My guess is that they are not going to remove the cap or increase the other AP because they do not wish to take the time to add more rewards to the chests above where rewards stop. This way it will take years for even the highest rankers to reach that level and that’s years in which they don’t need to revamp the chests or hear complaints about getting chests with no skins.

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the PvP Team:

Hi all,

We’ve been monitoring your feedback regarding the temporary achievements included with the recent PvP map releases, and we wanted to let you know that we’ve decided to make those achievements permanently obtainable. In addition, we will continue to offer the achievements for Eternal Coliseum and will be reactivating those related to Revenge of the Capricorn in the future to give players another chance to complete them. Lastly, we wanted to let you know that we’re planning to introduce map achievements for each of the existing PvP maps in a later release. We’ll have more information on those as the time gets closer.

Thanks!

The PvP team

Oh look a suggestion I made a few months back has been granted. Thank the gods.

More AP for you guys that want it coming soon.

Haleydawn.3764:

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the PvP Team:

Hi all,

We’ve been monitoring your feedback regarding the temporary achievements included with the recent PvP map releases, and we wanted to let you know that we’ve decided to make those achievements permanently obtainable. In addition, we will continue to offer the achievements for Eternal Coliseum and will be reactivating those related to Revenge of the Capricorn in the future to give players another chance to complete them. Lastly, we wanted to let you know that we’re planning to introduce map achievements for each of the existing PvP maps in a later release. We’ll have more information on those as the time gets closer.

Thanks!

The PvP team

Oh look a suggestion I made a few months back has been granted. Thank the gods.

More AP for you guys that want it coming soon.

They are actually adding AP to content that needs it? That is definitely a step to the right direction.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

My guess is that they are not going to remove the cap or increase the other AP because they do not wish to take the time to add more rewards to the chests above where rewards stop.

My guess is they are not going to remove the cap simply because they want (and have always wanted) people to spend their time on different activities rather than grinding one specific aspect of this game.

In a way, doing dailies each day for the ap is not much different than grinding a specific map/dungeon/event chain only. You move around different maps, but essentially you’re mostly doing a lot of similar activities (harvesting, vista etc.).

The original idea of dailies as I understood them was to give people incentive to try different things in this game and get a small bonus on the side. Just like any other small bonus you get in this game (extra blood rubies or petrified wood for dailies on the new maps, extra dungeon tokens after doing a number of different dungeon paths, map rewards for doing events and activities in a map …), the daily ap give players interested in specific rewards a bit of a boost towards achieving those rewards. It was never meant to be the sole or even major way to aquire those rewards.

Looking at my own achievement points, it does in fact feel weird that more than half of my points (12k of 23k) come from dailies and monthlies. It’ll still take a while for me to reach the cap, since I only do dailies whenever I feel like it or if they happen by themselves. To be honest, I don’t care if or when I hit the cap since I prefer to see the achievement chests as a nice surprise rather than something to “work for”.

If anything is wrong about the cap on daily ap (in my opinion), is that it’s too high compared to the permanent ap available. It’s made daily the major source of ap rather than a bonus for regular players. Unfortunately at the time ANet introduced the cap people had already aquired so many ap that ANet couldn’t really put the cap lower without capping a lot of people right then and there.

I’m hoping for more future permanent achievements (like the ones coming to pvp now) rather than making the tired old repeatable ones even more intense than they already are.

Rasimir.6239:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

My guess is that they are not going to remove the cap or increase the other AP because they do not wish to take the time to add more rewards to the chests above where rewards stop.

My guess is they are not going to remove the cap simply because they want (and have always wanted) people to spend their time on different activities rather than grinding one specific aspect of this game.

In a way, doing dailies each day for the ap is not much different than grinding a specific map/dungeon/event chain only. You move around different maps, but essentially you’re mostly doing a lot of similar activities (harvesting, vista etc.).

The original idea of dailies as I understood them was to give people incentive to try different things in this game and get a small bonus on the side. Just like any other small bonus you get in this game (extra blood rubies or petrified wood for dailies on the new maps, extra dungeon tokens after doing a number of different dungeon paths, map rewards for doing events and activities in a map …), the daily ap give players interested in specific rewards a bit of a boost towards achieving those rewards. It was never meant to be the sole or even major way to aquire those rewards.

Looking at my own achievement points, it does in fact feel weird that more than half of my points (12k of 23k) come from dailies and monthlies. It’ll still take a while for me to reach the cap, since I only do dailies whenever I feel like it or if they happen by themselves. To be honest, I don’t care if or when I hit the cap since I prefer to see the achievement chests as a nice surprise rather than something to “work for”.

If anything is wrong about the cap on daily ap (in my opinion), is that it’s too high compared to the permanent ap available. It’s made daily the major source of ap rather than a bonus for regular players. Unfortunately at the time ANet introduced the cap people had already aquired so many ap that ANet couldn’t really put the cap lower without capping a lot of people right then and there.

I’m hoping for more future permanent achievements (like the ones coming to pvp now) rather than making the tired old repeatable ones even more intense than they already are.

They don’t care about this incentive to try different things for the time it takes to get 15,000 AP (about 4 years) but after 15,000 AP and 4 years they suddenly do care so they put a cap on AP? I doubt that.

I still say it’s the lack of skins above a certain level that’s a major incentive not to lift the cap. Keeping the cap slows people down. Factor in the tiny AP you get from new content. Factor in the time it takes to make new weapons and the months to make new armor. Consider that they say they are stretched to the max already. And in my books that means longer time to reach the last of the current skins and longer time to put off making more.

Rasimir.6239:

My guess is they are not going to remove the cap simply because they want (and have always wanted) people to spend their time on different activities rather than grinding one specific aspect of this game.

This made me laugh. Because, when the current version of the dailies was introduced and people complained about them, one argument that kept popping up was how they were meant to push people out of there comfort zones and get them to do stuff they otherwise wouldn’t.

Rasimir.6239

In a way, doing dailies each day for the ap is not much different than grinding a specific map/dungeon/event chain only. You move around different maps, but essentially you’re mostly doing a lot of similar activities (harvesting, vista etc.).

The original idea of dailies as I understood them was to give people incentive to try different things in this game and get a small bonus on the side. Just like any other small bonus you get in this game (extra blood rubies or petrified wood for dailies on the new maps, extra dungeon tokens after doing a number of different dungeon paths, map rewards for doing events and activities in a map …), the daily ap give players interested in specific rewards a bit of a boost towards achieving those rewards. It was never meant to be the sole or even major way to aquire those rewards

To reach the 15k Ap cap from daily activities you need more than 4 years. Doing the same thing. From your post we can understand the doing the same activity for 4 years is not grinding. The grinding starts (according to your interpretation of ANet intentions) only after 4 years of doing the same thing.

PFFF !! and I considered a merely 5 months of weekly completing all the raids to be a grinding :-)).

Back to topic: It seems that the people don’t “try the different things in this game” because of interest (doing these “different things” for more than 4 years ends in a lack of interest) but for the AP reward – the “small bonus on the side”. This is the way I interpret the actual topic. Nobody complained that the daily activities are bad. The complains are that these activities are not interesting anymore without the AP reward. So according to your statements, by removing the “small bonus on the side” ANet is going against the original idea of the dailies – because the players lost the interest without the AP reward.

As for the “It was never meant to be the sole or even major way to acquire those rewards” – indeed, I agree with you here. But, unfortunately, some players are now in a point where the sole/major way to acquire specific rewards is the daily AP reward. So, that means something was wrong when designing this system. And this is what we want to find with this debate – a way to fix this design error.

Again: Completely lift the daily AP cap !

Just a flesh wound.3589:

They don’t care about this incentive to try different things for the time it takes to get 15,000 AP (about 4 years) but after 15,000 AP and 4 years they suddenly do care so they put a cap on AP? I doubt that.

Cristalyan.5728:

To reach the 15k Ap cap from daily activities you need more than 4 years. Doing the same thing. From your post we can understand the doing the same activity for 4 years is not grinding. The grinding starts (according to your interpretation of ANet intentions) only after 4 years of doing the same thing.

I do think (and tried to express this in my previous post) that the 15k cap in itself is too high, but by the time ANet put in the cap, players had already gotten too many ap through dailies and monthlies (which came a lot faster than 10 per day during some iterations of the dailies) that putting a lower, more reasonable cap in place wasn’t an option.

To me it looks more like a compromise between putting up a cap and not stopping a sizeable number of veterans in their tracks of ap progression right then and there. The progression would slow eventually (when people reach the cap, as many are starting to now), but not as abrupt as it would have if the cap they’d introduced was lower than what people had accumulated until then.

Cristalyan.5728:

As for the “It was never meant to be the sole or even major way to acquire those rewards” – indeed, I agree with you here. But, unfortunately, some players are now in a point where the sole/major way to acquire specific rewards is the daily AP reward. So, that means something was wrong when designing this system. And this is what we want to find with this debate – a way to fix this design error.

I’m still not convinced that it’s a design error. At least no more than the “design error” to lock the legendary backpiece skins and gliders behind their specific content (even time-limited in one case), the triumphant and glorious skins behind reward tracks, the specialization weapons and their skins behind certain collections, the new legendary weapons behind full HoT mastery and so on.

Achievement rewards are kind of an ongoing project, with more ap coming in with most every update. If something is “wrong”, then I’d say it’s the fact that people can preview skins not accessible right now (because they require ap not yet in game) and expect to beeline straight to those skin rewards.

Is displaying future ap reward skins so much different from e.g. mistforge hero weapons? People had to choose which of those skins to unlock, and while all skins are available, and it is intended (as far as I understand it) to give people a chance to unlock more of them in the future (through ways not yet determined), for now the skins beyond the ones you unlocked from former wvw seasons are not accessible to you either.

Voting to not remove since grinders are annoying players.

@Rasimir

“I do think (and tried to express this in my previous post) that the 15k cap in itself is too high, but by the time ANet put in the cap, players had already gotten too many ap through dailies and monthlies (which came a lot faster than 10 per day”

The daily cap was 10k in April 2014. They later folded the monthly into it, but that was their decision. They could have made the monthly AP historical, like any other AP that’s no longer available to earn and left the daily cap at 10k if they were concerned about people doing other content past higher AP.

Still not seeing your argument as true.

Hello that thinks Anet of all that? I have to stop the games since more of 2 weeks for a lack of investment of their part . I would just like to know if they follow the discussions
PS I am in the top 200 AP
I vote for up the daily AP

Amaimon.7823:

FrizzFreston.5290:

I dont even understand why people are so interested in more easy AP.
There is nothing valuable in AP chests imo, the skins arent that special, the gold is neglible and the rest is very useless. Whenever i get one its more that i think, "oh god what do i do with this sh… and how do i get rid of it. I suppose the 1-2% are nice in the long run, but not hugely significant. (Also a reason for the cap I suppose, you dont want that stuff run out of hand.)

When people here argue that somehow players playing more easy tasks and coming back like some addict and that the game then somehow becomes better, Just because of something very very little as 10 AP, I start to lose faith in humanity. The 2 gold that comes with it is much more valuable than the AP.

It would be better to suggest that the daily gold amount goes up to 3 gold once you hit daily cap ( or whatever fits) because that actually i can see make sense.

Obligatory ‘Can I have your AP’
Useless to you, maybe, but I’m scraping because I desperately need the Hellfire armor because its the only fiery armor in the game that isn’t rags’n’bones

There is the Flame Legion armour from doing Citadel of Flame and saving your tokens. Or next time they are in the gem store, Flamekissed, Flamewalker and Flamewrath.

maddoctor.2738:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Yes, some people would grind XP in the fastest-to-get content in order to get the rewards faster.

So wait, you want to tie a reward of 400 gems to just grinding random xp anywhere you want? Am I missing something or you want to make the game “work” and not “play”? Or by removing the reward chests you meant only the armor skins?

That’s a fair point. Perhaps just the skins and frills, not the gold/gems.

Lifting the daily AP cap has no effect on the quality on the dailies, other than giving players what they want because they don’t like to do actual achievements for achievement points. It’s barely any different from asking raid rewards to be available outside raids.

I can understand that players want a certain weapon or armor skin. But surely doing the task for said reward is the point of any game. Achievement points are all across the game, and dailies giving so much AP is already very generous, as it devalues basically every other achievement in the game. That is what the problem is between daily AP and permanent AP. Making that even worse by removing the AP cap on whichever capped repeatable achievements really isn’t something that’s going to make AP any better.

Decoupling the specific rewards from the AP might be an idea, but to me that just seems like you’re going to punish players who honestly hunt achievements for AP, and it’s like telling raiders that their raid rewards will now be locked behind some XP track. Though at least I’m not terribly convinced that AP need their own armor set. So it might be an idea.

I don’t get the whole premise that Anet should ask players … Toyota doesn’t as me if I want 10 cup holders do they? ALl threads like this are the same lack of understanding of what you pay for as a customer to an MMO developer … it’s Access to content, not the content itself. If you understand this, you know why it’s silly to ‘ask players’ if something should be done.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t get the whole premise that Anet should ask players … Toyota doesn’t as me if I want 10 cup holders do they? ALl threads like this are the same lack of understanding of what you pay for as a customer to an MMO developer … it’s Access to content, not the content itself. If you understand this, you know why it’s silly to ‘ask players’ if something should be done.

It is not inherently silly to ask players if something should be done or not. It’s just entirely up to ArenaNet if they want to ask players. Which in some occasions they do.

Especially since they already are heavily influenced by player statistics and opinions on forums and reddit (etc). AND they poll for certain WvW changes and certain outfit changes.

But yeah, reward schemes, however, are basically never rarely polled. Basically, we’re simply not qualified to be polled for reward changes. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t address that you find a certain reward scheme not fun, entertaining or rewarding enough or too much.

But yeah, I guess you’re right, ArenaNet doesn’t have to do anything, doesn’t have to listen to concerns and basically just do whatever they please, as long as it makes them money. Not sure why they are even running a forum anymore. Right? Toyota doesn’t have a forum where customers put in their request, so why should arenanet have one. /s

I dunno, but your logic there is very very flawed.