Guild Wars 2

Red Falcon.8257:

Considering how Warrior is UP in PvP I wouldn’t mind some PvP love in return for some PvE hate.

I’d prefer they ignore the complaints and leave things as they are.

Sorry the warrior isn’t just a tank that sits there and takes damage for everyone else.

Trinity is that way —→

It is literally this one path in dungeons that makes warriors look OP. And that’s because the path is characterized by two easy bosses, a couple of easily skipped events and one kiting event.

In any other dungeon, a warrior brings as much as any other class to the table. CoF P1 is an outlier due it’s design and simplicity for farming.

One would hope that the dev’s recognize when and where they’ve been successful in class design and work to bring all classes up to that standard of success. The warrior profession is an example of a well-designed and implemented class. It has strengths in melee and at range. It is the only profession where I don’t feel gimped by my secondary weapon set; rather, it simply feels optional depending on the combat situation.

I would not like to see any nerf as part of the warrior’s future. Nerf success and you simply breed mediocrity. I hope to see all the professions become successful to the same extent in the future.

Vociferous. That shall be my word of the day. I like it.

As for Warriors, I honestly don’t care if they are in my group or not. I won’t notice anything different if I take a Necro in its place.

Honestly, I see a lot more players looking for Guardians than Warriors.

I’d go for c) it’s the natural choice

Red Falcon.8257:

Considering how Warrior is UP in PvP I wouldn’t mind some PvP love in return for some PvE hate.

100% for this idea!
I wouldn’t mind trading in being good at PvE for being good a PvP

Considering carefully the managerial aspects of having only two people working on class balance and (as an engineer) the testing model they use to make sure everything is working as intended (standing still swinging at stationary target dummies to measure how everything works) I’d say it will most likely be c).

I learn from history you see where as others definitely don’t. (ahem notably mmo history)

Omer.5096:

It is literally this one path in dungeons that makes warriors look OP. And that’s because the path is characterized by two easy bosses, a couple of easily skipped events and one kiting event.

In any other dungeon, a warrior brings as much as any other class to the table. CoF P1 is an outlier due it’s design and simplicity for farming.

Guess that explains how a warrior can solo Arah dungeons. Seriously look it up on youtube.

Definitely option C.

I don’t have a problem with Warrior balance. They’re a blunt instrument, a long-run DPS machine on a reasonably durable frame that has the highest skill floor in the game.

That makes them ideal for trivial content like CoF 1, but they don’t really shine elsewhere – their real selling point is their ease of play.

tigirius.9014:

Omer.5096:

It is literally this one path in dungeons that makes warriors look OP. And that’s because the path is characterized by two easy bosses, a couple of easily skipped events and one kiting event.

In any other dungeon, a warrior brings as much as any other class to the table. CoF P1 is an outlier due it’s design and simplicity for farming.

Guess that explains how a warrior can solo Arah dungeons. Seriously look it up on youtube.

Fairly certain anet nerfed the ability to do that in the patch last week.

Would rather they made other classes attractive for their own uniqe abilities.

Playing necro and having to use time to setup bleeds for epidemic while i could just aswell run around auotattacking with a warrior for better faster result is just annoying.
And going for well spec is pointless with the long cd’s.

ANET also still havent bothered with the whole object like burrows vs condition dmg = fun time! yet its all the time you run into this problem.

Dont make condition such a big part of the game and then make it useless / annoying in 70%+ of all cases including boss immunities.

COE, friendly gets incased in crystal boom gs cleave its GONE. conditon necro same situation ? epidemic?

Should think they tested these things and came up with some solutions but looking at fractals and how pets are super annoying i doubt they test with anything but guard + warriors.

Option c) ‘Nothing changes’
Who needs class balance when we have more pve grind on the way?

MisterEction.9382:

Red Falcon.8257:

Considering how Warrior is UP in PvP I wouldn’t mind some PvP love in return for some PvE hate.

I’d prefer they ignore the complaints and leave things as they are.

Sorry the warrior isn’t just a tank that sits there and takes damage for everyone else.

Trinity is that way —->

Bravo, best post in here.
/thread.

wariors are FINE in pve but they are kitten in pvp worst class to play in tournoemtn they just keep shuting them down whit massive cc and the war cant get closing gap to do any melee dmg

fellyn.5083:

tigirius.9014:

Omer.5096:

It is literally this one path in dungeons that makes warriors look OP. And that’s because the path is characterized by two easy bosses, a couple of easily skipped events and one kiting event.

In any other dungeon, a warrior brings as much as any other class to the table. CoF P1 is an outlier due it’s design and simplicity for farming.

Guess that explains how a warrior can solo Arah dungeons. Seriously look it up on youtube.

Fairly certain anet nerfed the ability to do that in the patch last week.

Still doable. Reckless Dodge was fixed but that just slows down Lupicus 2-3 minutes. Also on Alphard cover no longer regenerates but you can “reset” fight to instantly recover all cover without boss gaining much health.
I’m not sure how big DPS-check last boss is (enemies attack terminal but they seem to destroy very very slowly) but every class should be able to do it as long as they can solo Lupicus (Guardian and Elementalist can, Mesmer/Thief probably, no idea about Engineer/Ranger/Necromancer).

I think increasing cooldown of Hundred Blades or swapping with burst skill could be valid options. Big effect on PvE, small effect on PvP.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the nerfed warriors. Specifically 100 blades and the GS might stacking trait. That wouldn’t change much for anything but dungeon speed running, which is what the goal is.

That’s the thing… Warrior sucks in PvP. Hundred Blades and GS in general are vastly overrated. I’ve leveled 2 warriors now, and the thing about hundred blades is it’s great for PvE when things won’t move out of the way, but anything with a brain is going to kill you. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been killed by medium and light armor classes in WvW. I’m actually working on my second warrior, with a hammer build of power, toughness, etc. because all the work I put into my GS War is kind of dissapointing, given that I can’t beat anything one on one, because… you guessed it! People see hundred blades, they move.

War is the only DD focused heavy job in the game currently, so it’s going to get some love on that side of things. It’s baffling to me how people are still finding this surprising. If you think it’s so uber-great, go level it. It’s not like you have to do anything to earn the right to be a warrior.

Okay, I have almost all the classes at 80 now – properly played not crafted all the way – 4 of those 80s have world 100% so, here is my 2c on the classes – One of the biggest problems for classes is near useless or just seriously underpowered weapon skills.

Warriors

The best class in the PVE game, no other class can match the cookie cutter builds for pure burst damage, heavy armor increases survivability for zerker builds so most of the more serious attacks can just be dodged. My Warrior can routinely do as much as 35k – 45k damage in around 5 seconds, how many other classes in the game can do that amount of damage in that time frame? – The short answer, NONE. This doesn’t mean the warrior is broken, it means all the other classes are – and honestly, they really are.

In WvW/sPvP warriors are also fine, you’re probably running into many players who are using either the wrong runes, or sigil stackers instead of more PvP utilities.

Thiefs

I’d honestly say these are the 2nd best class in the game, and thats mostly due to condition builds own WvW. In PvE, they have one of the best utility skills – group stealth allowing for safe rezs, bypassing groups of mobs etc etc, Thief is just well balanced, in that respect. Power/Crit builds are not really viable anymore though due to various nerfs in the past, no longer can you get ridiculously high back stabs, but still even a power/crit build is still more or less viable compared to other classes.

Mesmer

Honestly, they need some minor changes. Most use GS which is fine at long range, but how often does that really happen? I think the range vs damage aspect of the GS main attack should be removed and re-done, this would help the mesmer class. Everyone says they are the king of WvW or at least was before the nerfs, at least for utility and exploits, damage wise they are pretty bad. Not to mention, in WvW they are pretty easy to kill 1 v 1 compared to other classes, I guess this is why you see them running/teleporting away most of the time.

In PvE they are so-so, again the utility skills is what makes the class really any good – many of the weapon skills are underpowered and lacking serious burst potential. Phantasms are really in the end, just a distraction – even shatter builds are not really ‘that’ great in terms of damage, especially if you compare to Warriors output.

Ranger

Class needs a revamp, totally – What can I say? Both the Longbow and Shortbow weapon skills are underpowered for any type of build, pets damage/utility is lacking. In PvP, the ranger is a wreck as many attacks are dodgable with or without DRoll. I’ve seen probably the least amount of rangers in Fractal runs than any other class period, so that should say something about rangers. In many ways, they probably on a par with Engineers for needing a class revamp.

Engineer

Another class that needs a revamp, everything about the Engineer is just wrong. The weapon skills are terrible, I mean ~ look at poison volley one of the pistol skills, unless your PB range, it can literally miss 90% of the time – where as other volley skills…don’t. All the kits don’t take advantage of the players condition damage/power/crit etc, which makes them pretty useless, I’ve spent a ton of time changing builds trying to find something that works, not to mention Engineers have suffered the most NERFS – the latest nerf to the Elixir Gun, because its crappy healing ‘was overpowered’ and was nerfed into the ground.

Guardians

I can’t really say anything bad about them, they are pretty well balanced all around. Obviously, they have the best survivability in any situation. I think overall, I think they could do with a few minor tweaks and a DPS boost, but overall – compared to other classes, its more or less fine.

Elementalist

Too much work involved to be honest, reminds me of playing FF13..swopping between elements to maximize the damage output is annoying, the damage output in general isn’t even that high anyway, not to mention the survivability is pretty lousy especially with D/D builds. Whilst the class doesn’t really need a major revamp, I think the class does need some significant buffs.

Necromancer

Okay, so my Necromancer is only level 65 at the moment and Its my current ‘active’ class, at least until 80. The main problems are clearly apparent though, pets are useless in the extreme, even the flesh golem is near useless, it dies pretty fast – love to aggro random mobs and if it wasn’t for its charge, it would be a waste of 10 skill points. I also can tell the Necromancer at 80 is probably going to have very limited builds since Condition Dmg is pretty much what its all about here, the weapon skills are more or less fine except one issue I have and thats animation/cast speed of several attacks is on the slow side, as for PvP – I can’t answer that yet..

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Okay, I have almost all the classes at 80 now – properly played not crafted all the way – 4 of those 80s have world 100% so, here is my 2c on the classes – One of the biggest problems for classes is near useless or just seriously underpowered weapon skills.

Warriors

The best class in the PVE game, no other class can match the cookie cutter builds for pure burst damage, heavy armor increases survivability for zerker builds so most of the more serious attacks can just be dodged. My Warrior can routinely do as much as 35k – 45k damage in around 5 seconds, how many other classes in the game can do that amount of damage in that time frame? – The short answer, NONE. This doesn’t mean the warrior is broken, it means all the other classes are – and honestly, they really are.

In WvW/sPvP warriors are also fine, you’re probably running into many players who are using either the wrong runes, or sigil stackers instead of more PvP utilities.

Thiefs

I’d honestly say these are the 2nd best class in the game, and thats mostly due to condition builds own WvW. In PvE, they have one of the best utility skills – group stealth allowing for safe rezs, bypassing groups of mobs etc etc, Thief is just well balanced, in that respect. Power/Crit builds are not really viable anymore though due to various nerfs in the past, no longer can you get ridiculously high back stabs, but still even a power/crit build is still more or less viable compared to other classes.

Mesmer

Honestly, they need some minor changes. Most use GS which is fine at long range, but how often does that really happen? I think the range vs damage aspect of the GS main attack should be removed and re-done, this would help the mesmer class. Everyone says they are the king of WvW or at least was before the nerfs, at least for utility and exploits, damage wise they are pretty bad. Not to mention, in WvW they are pretty easy to kill 1 v 1 compared to other classes, I guess this is why you see them running/teleporting away most of the time.

In PvE they are so-so, again the utility skills is what makes the class really any good – many of the weapon skills are underpowered and lacking serious burst potential. Phantasms are really in the end, just a distraction – even shatter builds are not really ‘that’ great in terms of damage, especially if you compare to Warriors output.

Ranger

Class needs a revamp, totally – What can I say? Both the Longbow and Shortbow weapon skills are underpowered for any type of build, pets damage/utility is lacking. In PvP, the ranger is a wreck as many attacks are dodgable with or without DRoll. I’ve seen probably the least amount of rangers in Fractal runs than any other class period, so that should say something about rangers. In many ways, they probably on a par with Engineers for needing a class revamp.

Engineer

Another class that needs a revamp, everything about the Engineer is just wrong. The weapon skills are terrible, I mean ~ look at poison volley one of the pistol skills, unless your PB range, it can literally miss 90% of the time – where as other volley skills…don’t. All the kits don’t take advantage of the players condition damage/power/crit etc, which makes them pretty useless, I’ve spent a ton of time changing builds trying to find something that works, not to mention Engineers have suffered the most NERFS – the latest nerf to the Elixir Gun, because its crappy healing ‘was overpowered’ and was nerfed into the ground.

Guardians

I can’t really say anything bad about them, they are pretty well balanced all around. Obviously, they have the best survivability in any situation. I think overall, I think they could do with a few minor tweaks and a DPS boost, but overall – compared to other classes, its more or less fine.

Elementalist

Too much work involved to be honest, reminds me of playing FF13..swopping between elements to maximize the damage output is annoying, the damage output in general isn’t even that high anyway, not to mention the survivability is pretty lousy especially with D/D builds. Whilst the class doesn’t really need a major revamp, I think the class does need some significant buffs…

Nearly everything you wrote here is hilariously wrong.

It’s pretty obvious you only do PVE.

And only against normal mobs, presumably to level.

And in the wrong specs to boot.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Tell which other profession can strips boons from enemies so easily without allocating any skill slot nor trait for that?

You really play 8 professions? Because a mesmer does that with ease. The boon stripping gets more ridiculous when you count in allocated skill slots.

To the OP, I think you meant to write GS Warrior. Because as a Shout Warrior wielding an Axe/Warhorn and Rifle combo I’m not OP at all. Now a zerk’d GS warrior build, yeah maybe.

Thieves need nerfing more than any other class. Some Dev has such a love affair with Thieves it’s getting ridiculous. Nerf Stealth first!!!

Greatsword Warriors are very, very good at beating the crap out of giant immobile sacks of health. This is due to the way the weapon ‘ramps up’ with Might and Vulnerability stacks. On its own Hundred Blades deals good, if unspectacular damage; once you have the train rolling, with a big stack of Might and a Vulnerable target, it is the best damage in the game.

If you are not getting a fully channeled Hundred Blades to land on recharge, or are otherwise not glued to your target beating with 100% uptime, then Greatsword loses its edge; Axe starts to surpass it pretty quickly if you’re having to roll or break Hundred Blades, and even Axe starts to fall behind Dagger Thieves if you aren’t getting Triple Chop to finish consistently.

Obviously, Warriors are very good in CoF 1, where you kill a grand total of eight mobs that present virtually no threat, and it’s just a race to beat the health out of them as fast as possible. They are still good, but do not obviously outclass Guardians and Thieves against encounters where your enemy might do things like move or deal enough damage that you can’t AFK facetank them.

“Thiefs need more nefing” what a joke we already gotten nerefed to the ground, most of our abilities are completly worthless in PvE so no! Rather change or add some new abilities for thief because poisons and traps are usless in 99% cases of PvE.
In PvP yes we do great amount of damage but its trade for our survivability and cmon killshot with right build 1-shot those “OP thiefs” and i dont think you can complain about warriors melee weapons…

Ensign.2189:

Greatsword Warriors are very, very good at beating the crap out of giant immobile sacks of health. This is due to the way the weapon ‘ramps up’ with Might and Vulnerability stacks. On its own Hundred Blades deals good, if unspectacular damage; once you have the train rolling, with a big stack of Might and a Vulnerable target, it is the best damage in the game.

If you are not getting a fully channeled Hundred Blades to land on recharge, or are otherwise not glued to your target beating with 100% uptime, then Greatsword loses its edge; Axe starts to surpass it pretty quickly if you’re having to roll or break Hundred Blades, and even Axe starts to fall behind Dagger Thieves if you aren’t getting Triple Chop to finish consistently.

Obviously, Warriors are very good in CoF 1, where you kill a grand total of eight mobs that present virtually no threat, and it’s just a race to beat the health out of them as fast as possible. They are still good, but do not obviously outclass Guardians and Thieves against encounters where your enemy might do things like move or deal enough damage that you can’t AFK facetank them.

I haven’t really played warrior as much but I feel a lot of their skills are intended that way… like having skills which require you to be stationary or it breaks.. thats why you have knockback and stun skills to compensate for it. While you have strong burst damage, you also require your target to be still, I think it balances out quite nicely if you’re a smart player. Though for me as a guardian, I’ve never had trouble against a warrior, especially ones welding rifles.

Folk.2093:

I still don’t see what so awesome about warriors. If they’re in my fractal groups ok, if not, ok too. Never seen a correlation with successful frac runs and having warriors.

You haven’t seen a good one then, when you see one single handly (because everyone else died lol) tank Lupi in arah you may change your opinion slightly.

Protoavis.9107:

Folk.2093:

I still don’t see what so awesome about warriors. If they’re in my fractal groups ok, if not, ok too. Never seen a correlation with successful frac runs and having warriors.

You haven’t seen a good one then, when you see one single handly (because everyone else died lol) tank Lupi in arah you may change your opinion slightly.

i saw one compensating for the lack of 2 players against the cat (room with poison) bot in uncategorized fractal lvl28.

He face tanked the boss and we finish with huge margin….
I lost a bet we couldn t make enough dps (and me using an ele low dps while the other had to run for crystals didn t help….).

I don t think any other class could do that.

@Xiv Yes, I play primarily 95% PvE which for my write up, is 100% true. This game’s PvP aspect is pretty poor, you have WvW which is ruined because of hackers – and I don’t sPvP because I’m not into arena based PvP anymore.

Its very difficult to make a huge write up, because of the idiosyncrasy of all the specs possible, and all the situations those specs might crop up. Obviously, there are situations when a pure DPS zerker Warrior in certain dungeons is a really really bad idea and other classes will really shine through – this is the very nature of PvE – But you already knew that right?..

Zerker warrior is never bad in any dungeon. They can just switch to rifle and lose the aoe mass damage, while still retaining ridiculous single target.

Zenith.7301:

Zerker warrior is never bad in any dungeon. They can just switch to rifle and lose the aoe mass damage, while still retaining ridiculous single target.

And bingo, the reason why the Warrior is the king/queen of PvE content and always will be. How many other classes can do the same?

Until other classes get viable, and I mean proper viable burst damage in the same league as the warrior – no classes will match it in PvE/Dungeons

MisterEction.9382:

Red Falcon.8257:

Considering how Warrior is UP in PvP I wouldn’t mind some PvP love in return for some PvE hate.

I’d prefer they ignore the complaints and leave things as they are.

Sorry the warrior isn’t just a tank that sits there and takes damage for everyone else.

Trinity is that way —->

Do you have problems with reading comprehension?
Because that post never mentioned trinity or tanking, I asked to make the Warrior viable in PvP (fixing the bugs would already go a long way).
Please next time you decide to make a rude post to someone’s quote make sure you actually understtod what he’s talking about.

How much more damage do you think a full dunk zerker Warrior deals over a dunkmaster Thief?

How do you think a Rifle Warrior’s damage compares to a Pistol Thief or Shortbow Ranger?

What percentage difference would be acceptable if the current paradigm is not acceptable?

Warriors will always feel the nerf hammer the hardest. A class the relies on stance switching and lack of strong healing usually does. It’s the same in WoW, expect Warriors to be overlooked for quite a while. Especially in a world full of Guardians and Necos

Falcon, the Warrior is highly viable in PvP – with the right build/talents/runes/Utilities. But with the nature of PvP in general, someone is always going to have a spec/class etc which is just going to be your nemesis, there really isn’t such a thing as a perfect PvP class which will always own 100% of the time.

Ensign.2189:

How much more damage do you think a full dunk zerker Warrior deals over a dunkmaster Thief?

How do you think a Rifle Warrior’s damage compares to a Pistol Thief or Shortbow Ranger?

What percentage difference would be acceptable if the current paradigm is not acceptable?

I don’t know actually, Pistol Thief unleashing multiple unloads will do a fair amount of damage in short space of time, the problem is after that..they are very vulnerable and pretty much require stealth to recharge where as the warrior can do a hefty amount of damage with Volley and Kill Shot alone, probably around the region of 18 – 25k maybe? My thief is pure condition build so I don’t know how much damage unload will do but I imagine its pretty decent.

Ensign.2189:

How much more damage do you think a full dunk zerker Warrior deals over a dunkmaster Thief?

How do you think a Rifle Warrior’s damage compares to a Pistol Thief or Shortbow Ranger?

What percentage difference would be acceptable if the current paradigm is not acceptable?

Does the thief have a PBAOE ability he can cycle every 6 seconds for 20-30k damage, keep up easily 20 stacks of might 24/7, stand as long in melee as a warrior with double his health and more armor, lacking the utilities of shout healing and fury and might for the group?

Thief might be able to burst better every 45 seconds with signets, but the question of sustained damage goes to a warrior.

And to even place a ranger shortbow next to warrior damage is preposterous. The ranger’s big share of damage lies in his pet, not his weapons. And guess what happens to pets in dungeons and fractals and WvW?

PvE/dungeons:
1. Warrior/Guardian
2. Ele/Mesmer
3. Necro/Engy
4. Ranger/thief

W3:
1-2. Thief/DD ele for roaming
1-2. Guardian/Mesmer/Staff ele for groupfights
3. Warrior/Ranger/Necro
4. Engy

PvP:
1. Bunker guardian/DD&SD ele
2. Thief/Mesmer/Trap ranger
3. Condi “bunkerbuster” wellnecro
4. 100b Warrior/Engy

Most dungeons favor offense and that’s the reason why warriors excel at it. We can build ourselves to extreme squishiness, but since everything is scripted/telegraphed we can avoid the damage and stay on the target. Guardians/eles are for keeping us alive, ele at the same time can push out some serious dps themselves. Mesmer is pretty much just Mr.timewarp/reflects. Just to see our point of view, feel free to try warr with the build the “OP warriors” run with, let’s see if you’ll miss having no stunbreaks/condi removals.

EDIT:

• Do not mix up shouthealing and still doing 20-30k damage. The ridiculous numbers come from a 20/30/0/0/20 spec, full zerker and only damage utilities (no stunbreaks/condi removals).
• Zerker warrior killshot hits around 10-14k in dungeons. If he is not pure glass, then much less. Volley hits from 6-10k+ as a pure glass build. Rifle auto is about the same as thief sbow auto (1k+).
• Having no knowledge of spvp or as you said 5% of your overall playtime is no basis for claims like “highly viable”.

We have 1-2 viable specs and those have much less room for error than most of the other classes. Warrior’s “viable” builds haven’t changed at all since beta, only difference is people went even more glass, since speccing for survivability had no effect. It’s still the same GS/?+shield in top play for the past 4-5 months. Furthermore, we don’t have 1-2, but many hard counters from different professions, for example condinecros/shatter mesmer/DD thief/any kiting heavy or lockdown build.

As in playing viably in tpvp. I’ve switched to a immo heavy build due to the DD ele uprising, to counter their mobility and my job is to set up kills for the real bursters (thieves). Since we have no utilities to disengage, when I get focused, it’s 99% death in groupfights. Since we are easily kited with chill&cripple and naturally vulnerable to conditions it’s natural that we will always get focused first.

TsukasaHiiragi.9730:

Falcon, the Warrior is highly viable in PvP – with the right build/talents/runes/Utilities. But with the nature of PvP in general, someone is always going to have a spec/class etc which is just going to be your nemesis, there really isn’t such a thing as a perfect PvP class which will always own 100% of the time.

You’re wrong.

Overall strongest classes in every aspect of the game, essential to bring along:

- Guardian: borderline op bunker pvp, fantastic balance of damage and support in dungeons, backbone of wvw and PVP groups

- Ele: same as guardian

- Mesmer: great for all aspects of the game but mainly due to bringing unique utilities like time warp, curtain, portal, nullfield, etc, otherwise superb in all aspects of PVP in terms of both survivability and damage

Middling classes that excel at certain things:

- Thief: Multiple specs offer insane survival and damage in wvw, great escapes and highest burst in 1vs, mediocre in dungeons but not useless

- Necro: used properly (ie: not as a pet class) has extremely useful tricks to contribute to groups and some very high sustained aoe damage, some great tPVP builds

- Warrior: extreme DPS in PVE and dungeons, mediocre and vulnerable in all aspects of PVP unless running low dps high survival build in wvw

Classes that are not weak, but do need something unique to bring to the table:

- Rangers: decent damage and some useful utilities, but overall lacking in flavour, great for PVE soloers and has 1 very strong tPVP build (among the strongest currently)

- Engis: able to fill in for various roles, but doesn’t perform any of them as well as specialists, great all-rounder in PVE and PVP for people who know how to use them

xiv.7136:

Overall strongest classes in every aspect of the game, essential to bring along:

- Guardian: borderline op bunker pvp, fantastic balance of damage and support in dungeons, backbone of wvw and PVP groups

- Ele: same as guardian

- Mesmer: great for all aspects of the game but mainly due to bringing unique utilities like time warp, curtain, portal, nullfield, etc, otherwise superb in all aspects of PVP in terms of both survivability and damage

Middling classes that excel at certain things:

- Thief: Multiple specs offer insane survival and damage in wvw, great escapes and highest burst in 1vs, mediocre in dungeons but not useless

- Necro: used properly (ie: not as a pet class) has extremely useful tricks to contribute to groups and some very high sustained aoe damage, some great tPVP builds

- Warrior: extreme DPS in PVE and dungeons, mediocre and vulnerable in all aspects of PVP unless running low dps high survival build in wvw

Classes that are not weak, but do need something unique to bring to the table:

- Rangers: decent damage and some useful utilities, but overall lacking in flavour, great for PVE soloers and has 1 very strong tPVP build (among the strongest currently)

- Engis: able to fill in for various roles, but doesn’t perform any of them as well as specialists, great all-rounder in PVE and PVP for people who know how to use them

Amen, sums current situation up perfectly.

Zenith.7301:

Does the thief have a PBAOE ability he can cycle every 6 seconds for 20-30k damage

Nope, neither does the Warrior. This doesn’t work when you make things up.

Zenith.7301:

Thief might be able to burst better every 45 seconds with signets, but the question of sustained damage goes to a warrior.

Yes, it does. By how much does it go to the Warrior, and how much would be acceptable?

Zenith.7301:

And to even place a ranger shortbow next to warrior damage is preposterous.

How much more damage over an extended period of time does a Warrior with a Rifle deal compared to a Ranger with a Shortbow? You can ignore the pet entirely. What amount would you consider acceptable?

CoF p1 is probably the only dungeon where warriors do not need babysitting and glass cannons are viable. For other dungeons you need someone to toss you regeneration or do it yourself with banners or shout heals to avoid getting downed that often, but then you won’t do as much damage as pure glass cannons who have around 25-30% more damage than (self)support warriors.

Every class seems to be good at something in game. Warriors happen to be great for speed runs. But then D/D Elementalist, Thieves, and Mesmers rock at PVP. Many feel Rangers part way suck because they try to be too much of everything and end up really good at nothing. I can’t see nerfing the entire class because they are good at one aspect of play. I can see a series of rebalances but that would be both buffs and nerfs to bring all classes into line. But I am not sure if that is a good thing or not. I mean, you want every class to have some sort of character to it or feel that makes it unique and “good” for something. Not every class has to be equal at every task.Do we really want every class to try and be too much of everything?

They could tone down cleave dmg a bit imo, warriors should have high single target dmg im fine with that but their dmg shouldn’t outshine other classes in every situation.

It’s pretty obvious that op has no idea how balancing in mmo’s works. The thing that Anet will do, is that they will identify mesmers timewarp and portal to be core problem of elite cof p1 speed runs, so they will do :
1) nerf timewarp into oblivion
2) give portal to warriors to give those poor souls some group utility.

warriors seem to be good in pve because they are bad in pvp (in my experience, i’m sure there are awesome warriors :P)

Buffing everyone else to warrior pve effectiveness would be a difficult task, but the one that would make most people happiest.

I’d prefer option e) Anet make dungeons more complex so you can’t just faceroll beserkers through (some high armour enemies would require more condition damage for example)