Guild Wars 2

Rezzet.3614:

you wont even notice the MF on skilled players even i trash dungeons in a blink with MF gear. so its more a L2P issue.

I’m more worried about the people who might see me getting killed, decide I’m wearing MF gear and kick me even though I don’t have any on anymore.

Julie Yann.5379:

I agree that there are situations where MF is not warranted and I think the problem is the a lot of people don’t know when to take it off. In most dungeons MF is pointless cause half the time the mods are skipped and half the mobs don’t drop a thing anyway. Fractals past 30 MF is not recommended, except for Maw, second half of Ascalon (if you are good enough to stay alive), middle part of the dredge (If you are good enough to stay alive), and the first half of the Aquatic Ruins (If you are good enough to stay alive). I agree, if your party is struggling, take it off. If you are struggling, take it off but if all is going smoothly, keep it on. To outright call it useless and people who use it selfish is wrong cause in a way you are selfish as well. You want people to play like you so that your runs go better and that you can improve your time invested/reward ratio. You can try and hide behind the whole “for the good of the entire party” argument all you want but in the end it’s your time and what you want to be reward for it and you are even more selfish cause you are trying to impose your way of thinking to achieve your goal. We all are selfish, it’s just human nature to look out for yourself first.

This is not the military where people actually die if you are not at the top of your game, it’s just a flipping video game and everyone should be able to be play and enjoy it the way they want without discrimination because they paid for it too.

This thread is just going to go on forever, like countless other MF argument threads and nobody is ever going to agree on the subject. In my mind it should be closed and the argument ended.

Oh where do I start. Last I checked everyone has the mutual goal to get through the dungeon, correct? I don’t see people having their goal set on wiping repeatedly to the same fight over and over. No bosses die if no one works together, it’s kind of the whole point of GROUP content. If you want to do things your way, with no scrutiny, then there is plenty of other content to indulge in. You criticize me for calling out players that selfishly choose MF gear because it is their right to play the way they want. Of course it is, but it is also the group’s right to not want to carry said individuals especially when the group is struggling and the individuals choose to purposely hide their intentions. Apparently, the idea of working as a team is a foreign concept to some people.

Many people are calling for a thread close to end the discussion. The problem is people keep getting off track, including me. Is there really a GOOD reason why MF should be allowed in dungeons and not just shared/automatically applied? Can’t we all at least agree that it is a bad game mechanic in group play?

I have nothing against MF in open world PVE,get as much as you can and farm as musch as you like.When it comes to dungeons I dont understand whay would you even run MF in dungeons,all loot from loot droping mobs in dungeons is junk(MF can hardly help with that)and MF is not affecting loot from chests.MF gear is power precision MF,so I cant understand whay people compare it to PVT,insted of PPT,PPC,PPCritdmg,so MF gear will not make you less durable,but you will be doing less dmg.Only way MF gear can make you less durable is if you use green or yellow rarity,in that case you will be less durable and you will do even less dmg(tbh I think lots of people run green mf gear its cheaper and has same MF stat,which in dungeon is a fail).MF gear has no place in dungeons imo no matter the rarity,MF brings little to none benifits for loot and penalizes the rest of team by devaluing time they have invested in particular instance.

My Dead Characters.9517:

this thread is no longer inviting constructive critisism. Moderators, please close this thread as it is just a “blah blah blah mean comment mean comment” "blah blah blah mean comment mean comment. im looking at you tobias and valenthor>.>

Please quote a mean comment of mine that wasn’t constructive. Thank you.

Valenthor.4052:

Is there really a GOOD reason why MF should be allowed in dungeons and not just shared/automatically applied? Can’t we all at least agree that it is a bad game mechanic in group play?

I’ve always disliked “lucky” gear in any RPG I’ve played, because there’s always those few things weighted in the loot rolls to have a less than 1% drop rate. The lucky gear was supposedly to allow people to get it easier, though that’s not . . . quite how probability works.

Magic Find falls in the same category, but I didn’t find it so detestable here maybe because it didn’t seem as impactful as . . . say, it was in Diablo 2. (Even worse, in Diablo 2 it was possible to have that hard-won jumped-up loot ninjasnatched by a “friend”.) I suppose it’s that nobody gets to see how much you’re using or even what drops for you unless you tell them. And even then, well, there’s accusations of dishonesty since nobody’s quite really . . . sure.

You know what would be interesting? If when you weren’t grouped it only worked for you, but if your party had an averaged-out bonus where you take the MF of everyone there and divide it by the members active. And people would still complain it was useless, worthless, and weakening the party :P

(That’s not a strawman for the people who want it gone, that’s more like “I’ve been around the internet long enough to know better”.)

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Rezzet.3614:

you wont even notice the MF on skilled players even i trash dungeons in a blink with MF gear. so its more a L2P issue.

I’m more worried about the people who might see me getting killed, decide I’m wearing MF gear and kick me even though I don’t have any on anymore.

Yep. I hate how divisive it is. It is completely against everything GW2 stands for and I expect it to change at some point.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Valenthor.4052:

Is there really a GOOD reason why MF should be allowed in dungeons and not just shared/automatically applied? Can’t we all at least agree that it is a bad game mechanic in group play?

I’ve always disliked “lucky” gear in any RPG I’ve played, because there’s always those few things weighted in the loot rolls to have a less than 1% drop rate. The lucky gear was supposedly to allow people to get it easier, though that’s not . . . quite how probability works.

Magic Find falls in the same category, but I didn’t find it so detestable here maybe because it didn’t seem as impactful as . . . say, it was in Diablo 2. (Even worse, in Diablo 2 it was possible to have that hard-won jumped-up loot ninjasnatched by a “friend”.) I suppose it’s that nobody gets to see how much you’re using or even what drops for you unless you tell them. And even then, well, there’s accusations of dishonesty since nobody’s quite really . . . sure.

You know what would be interesting? If when you weren’t grouped it only worked for you, but if your party had an averaged-out bonus where you take the MF of everyone there and divide it by the members active. And people would still complain it was useless, worthless, and weakening the party :P

(That’s not a strawman for the people who want it gone, that’s more like “I’ve been around the internet long enough to know better”.)

It’s an okay solution and would probably quiet the discussion down a lot. It would then only come up if there were wipes and lack of progress. I personally just want the stat gone from group play, as I am sure WvW players don’t like it either. There is nothing compelling or interesting about it.

Valenthor.4052:

Some MF defender please tell me how is it any better than someone rolling in all blues and asking to be carried? And don’t tell me that you would be okay carrying them because we all know that is a flat out lie, as soon as you wipe once. And before you get all excited, I am fully aware you can wear MF and not wipe. Speed becomes important as soon as people know the routine and just farm it for whatever. And guess what? Every number matters when you want speed. I feel like, all of a sudden, people want to change decades of common gaming etiquette because the shinnies are too tempting. In what other game is it okay and accepted to not be trying your best for pure greed? Apparently someone trolling your dungeon with purposely done lesser gear (for his own personal lawls) should be accepted because that is the path some of you suggest is okay.

bolded non constructive part and italicized the extreme that you go to, wearing mf gear doesnt make you equal to lesser gear. but dont drag me into this war between you and tobias pls valenthor

My Dead Characters.9517:

bolded non constructive part and italicized the extreme that you go to, wearing mf gear doesnt make you equal to lesser gear. but dont drag me into this war between you and tobias pls valenthor

I’m not at war with him. I got a fight enough trying to make the case Trahearne isn’t a waste of space.

Valenthor.4052:

Oh where do I start. Last I checked everyone has the mutual goal to get through the dungeon, correct? I don’t see people having their goal set on wiping repeatedly to the same fight over and over. No bosses die if no one works together, it’s kind of the whole point of GROUP content. If you want to do things your way, with no scrutiny, then there is plenty of other content to indulge in. You criticize me for calling out players that selfishly choose MF gear because it is their right to play the way they want. Of course it is, but it is also the group’s right to not want to carry said individuals especially when the group is struggling and the individuals choose to purposely hide their intentions. Apparently, the idea of working as a team is a foreign concept to some people.

Many people are calling for a thread close to end the discussion. The problem is people keep getting off track, including me. Is there really a GOOD reason why MF should be allowed in dungeons and not just shared/automatically applied? Can’t we all at least agree that it is a bad game mechanic in group play?

I am polite enough to tell my party that I am carrying MF and intend to use it when i it’s worth using and they can kick me if they want, their loss, they’re missing out on a good player. I’ll find a group who doesn’t care. I win either way.

You are right about this thread gone off track, it’s so easy to get caught up in this debate. It would be a great if MF was shared with the party in dungeons and other group content. I paid my tax but I wouldn’t be opposed to sharing the benefits. Plus by doing so MF would no longer me considered a hindrance and shunned. You might even actually see LF1M plz have 140MF on lfg, what I wouldn’t give to see that. It would be a win, win for everyone but until that happens we are still in and endless pointless debate about opinions that don’t even matter in the end. It’s just a game.

BTW I agree, it’s a kittenty mechanic but Anet doesn’t give us much choice if we want decent drops. Good loot are what matter to me, I need lots of dough to pay for my WvW expenses (3-4g a night 3-4 nights a week for siege and upgrades) and without MF I don’t make enough. I’m not in it to get stinking rich, I rarely make it over 10g in my bank. You see, not all MF users are selfish kittens with no sense of team play, all the money I make goes towards earning my server (team) points in WVW.

I do not agree with this post at all, I run a pur MF and GF armor set, depending on the set, its not my fault you don’t….why should I have to share?

Fiddlestyx.9714:

Wait… are dungeons hard or something?

I would say more tedious and frustrating, but yes in places i would call them hard..

MF is broken from a team perspective. Why someone who contribute near to nothing should get best reward from a mob killed by others?
Is not your fault others don’t have MF? Then go and kill stuff yourself, is not my fault you are worthless.
However, any build is worthless in the wrong hands. I would prefer 100% of the time to play with 4 good players with MF than wasting my time with a bunch of worthless CG who spend more time in the ground that doing damage.

i’m tempted to kick people when the tropical bird appears. ain’t nobody got time to carry a greedy kittener.

daimasei.4091:

MF is broken from a team perspective. Why someone who contribute near to nothing should get best reward from a mob killed by others?
Is not your fault others don’t have MF? Then go and kill stuff yourself, is not my fault you are worthless.
However, any build is worthless in the wrong hands. I would prefer 100% of the time to play with 4 good players with MF than wasting my time with a bunch of worthless CG who spend more time in the ground that doing damage.

because we put the gear on and we do nothing, now go kill something so i can get an exotic

vespers.1759:

i’m tempted to kick people when the tropical bird appears. ain’t nobody got time to carry a greedy kittener.

I know at least one person who would wear that set just for the lil tropical bird

Anyone slotting MF instead of AR and dying is an idiot. I run full MF for everything, but even I bring all the AR I have available to fracs.

In my non-exotic MF set I’m usually the last one to die. If someone is polishing the dungeon’s floor with their face they aren’t worth having along regardless of what they’re wearing.

I don’t like the implementation of Magic Find in this game. I agree, if you take Magic Find you are lowering your contribution to the team. Either the Dungeons are going slower than they could, or you are going down more often than you should. If you say I don’t need the Toughness, I don’t go down often, then those points should really be funneled into doing more damage or more healing. I do feel if you join a team you are making a contract with the rest of the team that you playing your best to help out the team.

Magic Find is a fine stat if your in open world or farming events but in Dungeons where your contribution affects other people it doesn’t feel right to run large amounts of Magic Find when I could be helping the team out in other ways, it’s not like your going to be sharing the extra loot your gaining with the healer that is keeping you up (who has taken Healing instead of Magic Find) or the DPS guy that is killing mobs faster (who has taken Crit Dmg instead of Magic Find), so even if it’s not having much effect you are still really leaching off the rest of the team.

The way I feel Magic Find as a stat should work is that every team member that damages an enemy should add their Magic Find to the loot that mob drops (In other words if you have done enough to get a loot drop from a mob your Magic Find adds to that mobs loot). But that when implemented Magic Find totals you get a inverse squared drop off on the effect. So 10 -> 20 has much more effect to the loot you get than 20 -> 30. This means that multiple people having a bit of Magic Find helps out everyone, Yes you won’t get through the Dungeon as fast, or more people might die, but everyone gets a bit better loot. Or one person could load up on it, and though they might not help the team out as much they have other benefits to everyone. But if everyone takes all Magic Find you don’t get stupid loot.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

vespers.1759:

i’m tempted to kick people when the tropical bird appears. ain’t nobody got time to carry a greedy kittener.

I know at least one person who would wear that set just for the lil tropical bird

the bird is pretty cool i’ll admit, but not in dungeons.

MF is kitten as a concept but am I missing the memo where dungeons were hard or something? If the whole point of dungeons for most people is to make money… why not make money then?

Writetyper.1985:

MF is kitten as a concept but am I missing the memo where dungeons were hard or something? If the whole point of dungeons for most people is to make money… why not make money then?

Because without any way to know how much MF everyone has you end up with situations were 1 player is running tonnes of it and everyone else is suffering because of it, low DPS/Survivability. So most of the team is supporting 1 person that is making more out of it. If it showed as a buff at least you could at least advertise. AC 25MF run, so everyone gets an equal share of the loot, rather than one person being carried and getting more loot.

In otherwords I have no issue with a group handicapping themselves to get more loot collectively. But one person handicapping a group to get more loot personally, that’s more of an issue.

It’s like Fractals. You can choose to do a higher level fractal, which is going to be harder, everything is going to do more damage and you are probably going to have more deaths, but you get better loot. Or you can choose to do a low level Fractal have an easier ride and less loot. This is fine because the group makes this decision.

1 person secretly running Magic Find is the equivalent to everyone in the group signing up for a level 1 fractal and actually doing a level 10 fractal where only a couple of players get the extra loot.

Ratty.5176:

Writetyper.1985:

MF is kitten as a concept but am I missing the memo where dungeons were hard or something? If the whole point of dungeons for most people is to make money… why not make money then?

Because without any way to know how much MF everyone has you end up with situations were 1 player is running tonnes of it and everyone else is suffering because of it, low DPS/Survivability. So most of the team is supporting 1 person that is making more out of it. If it showed as a buff at least you could at least advertise. AC 25MF run, so everyone gets an equal share of the loot, rather than one person being carried and getting more loot.

But they’re not getting carried because because if you play with fingers on the mouse instead of toes then you could do dungeons naked and finish in due course. It might take longer, but so will putting a ranger into your group, so will having someone with full soldiers, so forth.

I don’t use any mf because I don’t care about money, but that’s food for thought. Any lost time in a party wherin everyone is using mf might be made up through dosh. It’s certainly not like 5 PRECISION, which is less than 1/4th of what it takes to up your critical chance by ONE PERCENT is going to speed things up much at all.

I run full MF (except on places like Arah, fractals 11+ or CoE where i run full berz. But something like AC? Full MF all the way), and I’m very often the one who dies the least. I know my character skills, I know the instances, I know the bosses. I contribute to the group more than most people I pug with.
And for the ones who say that running MF is egoistical… seriously guys, do you play for the other people or for yourselves? I do dungeon runs for money and loot, and MF helps me achieve my goal.

Just get a working brain and stop being sheeps and bleat “OH NOES MF GUY IS SLOWING ME!!1!” just because someone else said it and THINK. There is nothing wrong with full MF (most of the time).

Edit: I want to add that I would be very, VERY glad if they removed it altogether from the game. I hate having to use it, I think it’s a stat that shouldn’t be in the game AT ALL.

Writetyper.1985:

Ratty.5176:

Writetyper.1985:

MF is kitten as a concept but am I missing the memo where dungeons were hard or something? If the whole point of dungeons for most people is to make money… why not make money then?

Because without any way to know how much MF everyone has you end up with situations were 1 player is running tonnes of it and everyone else is suffering because of it, low DPS/Survivability. So most of the team is supporting 1 person that is making more out of it. If it showed as a buff at least you could at least advertise. AC 25MF run, so everyone gets an equal share of the loot, rather than one person being carried and getting more loot.

But they’re not getting carried because because if you play with fingers on the mouse instead of toes then you could do dungeons naked and finish in due course. It might take longer, but so will putting a ranger into your group, so will having someone with full soldiers, so forth.

I don’t use any mf because I don’t care about money, but that’s food for thought. Any lost time in a party wherin everyone is using mf might be made up through dosh. It’s certainly not like 5 PRECISION, which is less than 1/4th of what it takes to up your critical chance by ONE PERCENT is going to speed things up much at all.

5 Precision won’t, but if you have a person with full Explorer and Runes of the Pirate, they will do significantly less damage as a player with full Berzerkers and Runes of the Scholar. The issue is not that you can do the dungeon easily with this player. It’s that this player is making that decision for you and the team is suffering for it. Everyone is having to play better, and take longer over fights to line this one players pockets.

Fuz.5621:

I run full MF (except on places like Arah, fractals 11+ or CoE where i run full berz. But something like AC? Full MF all the way), and I’m very often the one who dies the least. I know my character skills, I know the instances, I know the bosses. I contribute to the group more than most people I pug with.
And for the ones who say that running MF is egoistical… seriously guys, do you play for the other people or for yourselves? I do dungeon runs for money and loot, and MF helps me achieve my goal.

Just because you survive does not in any way mean your not responsible partly for the deaths that happen. There are many places, EG Dethra setting up the cannons or Charging the Hammer on Fractals, where DPS is important. If mobs are not being killed fast enough it means the people on your team are getting swarmed by more mobs, this can lead to you not being able to heal through the damage being taken, and this is when teams normally go down. Having enough DPS is important and you taking Magic Find can be one of the causes of this lack in DPS even if you survive longest.

I’m not against Magic Find, I’m against people making that decision for me, and reaping the benefits for it.

I don’t buy that whole “you wear MF so you are not contributing to the party”. I have saved my party countless times while wearing MF. I have solo finished some bosses while wearing MF cause I had a party that didn’t know how to play and went down in a dangerous spot to rez but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think the whole problem people are having with MF is that they had a bad run with a noob with MF and now they are blaming the gear instead of the player. I know the feeling cause I have had some bad runs with MF noobs but I have also had bad runs with people wearing every other gear set out there. Blame the player not the gear. Maybe some of these people complaining about MF should build a set of MF gear and learn to play with it. That way they might understand that we are not as useless as they think.

MF is part of the game, one I would prefer not need but there is nothing anyone but Anet can do about it. They kind of force our hand to use it and MF users will keep using it. Just carry 2 sets of gear with you, if your group struggles then take your MF off. If the run goes smoothly keep it on. I don’t owe my party anything more then a smooth run, whether I do it it in MF gear or not is my decision.

Ratty.5176:

If mobs are not being killed fast enough it means the people on your team are getting swarmed by more mobs, this can lead to you not being able to heal through the damage being taken, and this is when teams normally go down.

I’m not sure I follow how I’m directly responsible for other people’s inability to heal, dodge, or otherwise mitigate incoming damage . . . I mean, I can understand the point of “if you’re substituting a significant amount of your stat bonuses for ‘luck bonuses’ then you’re not helping as much as you could be”. I’d agree it’s true, without hesitation.

But we get down to statements like this, and often ask the same question: if we are getting through the fighting without people dying and without incident, why does it matter?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

But we get down to statements like this, and often ask the same question: if we are getting through the fighting without people dying and without incident, why does it matter?

it doesn’t really, but it means everyone else has to work harder to make up for you. in a good group nobody will notice, but in a less skilled group the difference becomes more noticeable.

nobody benefits but the guy running MF, which seems silly as they gain at the expense of others even if it a small thing.

vespers.1759:

it doesn’t really, but it means everyone else has to work harder to make up for you. in a good group nobody will notice, but in a less skilled group the difference becomes more noticeable.

nobody benefits but the guy running MF, which seems silly as they gain at the expense of others even if it a small thing.

We run into the same argument about people who aren’t skilled or can’t seem to run their character at 100% effectiveness with what they have. Or if they mess something up in the run (“I didn’t know I wasn’t supposed to go into the room already.”). It starts at a different spot but it winds up into the same end point:

“This is making it harder on other people/me for no reason other than this person making a choice which impacts all of us. And possibly doesn’t bother them as much.”

The main reason this topic is getting such defensiveness is this argument can . . . even if it’s not . . . easily have phrases replaced and penciled in to make it about anything else. People are worried if this point is conceded then it could come back up later for something more drastic, and more aggressively limiting.

Please try to understand that. I’m aware of your arguments and agree the first principle you outline (“It makes one person less useful to the group without giving back a benefit”) but starting from that principle you can file off “magic find” and replace other things in there.

It’s less important that “Magic Find” never should have been in the game . . . it is in the game. “Gold Find” is in the game. “Experience/Karma Bonus” is in the game, and all of these benefit the individual rather than the group. There is only one place this actually matters: in dungeons/Fractals. (This point is one we can all agree on.)

The best fix is a tweak to allow the bonus to be beneficial to the group, which adds something to the game . . . rather than remove all four of the above effects, which takes something away from the game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The best fix is a tweak to allow the bonus to be beneficial to the group, which adds something to the game . . . rather than remove all four of the above effects, which takes something away from the game.

Indeed I totally agree, it’s in the game, Magic Find is not necessarily a bad thing. However I dislike the implementation of it. And I’m definitely not the only one, as I’ve seen in Guild chat, it is a prevalent feeling that it hurts the team when people run magic find, and I agree it does, a couple of people going into a dungeon with 2/3 the stats does affect the team heavily.

Someone may not be the best player and therefore may be down a lot or contribute to the team as much, he can not help this, and so I have much less issue with this than someone coming on the team in MF gear, in this case he is consciously making the choice to gimp his stats and help the team less than he could otherwise.

In a game which is social, this feels off. It feels in someways like a Baseball player going into a game with one eye shut because he’s being payed by the opposition coach. He is not being up front with his team, he’s lowering his performance that has a knock on effect on his team, and he’s taking money on the sly to do so.

Ratty.5176:

In a game which is social, this feels off. It feels in someways like a Baseball player going into a game with one eye shut because he’s being payed by the opposition coach. He is not being up front with his team, he’s lowering his performance that has a knock on effect on his team, and he’s taking money on the sly to do so.

It’d be more like the Black Sox affair I suppose, if you want to go way over the top in how it gets applied. Or a player phoning in their play because they’re thinking the team isn’t going to be big enough to suit him. (Think the character Roger Dorn of “Major League”.)

While this game is social and oriented to encourage players to work together there’s still . . . and always will be, a strong competitiveness at work in some players’ minds. They’ll want the most out of what they do, and will react in differing degrees to other peoples’ impact on their play.

Disclaimer: There is nothing wrong here. I am not saying people need to stop being competitive. I am saying it’s natural and understandable.

If there was a lobby to make MF/GF, et cetera partywide, then you’d probably see some other complaints in reverse starting up . . . that people are being pressured to help the group by running more of these so they can benefit the team. Yes, I can see that argument starting right now in an alternate world’s web forum

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Ratty.5176:

In a game which is social, this feels off. It feels in someways like a Baseball player going into a game with one eye shut because he’s being payed by the opposition coach. He is not being up front with his team, he’s lowering his performance that has a knock on effect on his team, and he’s taking money on the sly to do so.

It’d be more like the Black Sox affair I suppose, if you want to go way over the top in how it gets applied. Or a player phoning in their play because they’re thinking the team isn’t going to be big enough to suit him. (Think the character Roger Dorn of “Major League”.)

While this game is social and oriented to encourage players to work together there’s still . . . and always will be, a strong competitiveness at work in some players’ minds. They’ll want the most out of what they do, and will react in differing degrees to other peoples’ impact on their play.

Disclaimer: There is nothing wrong here. I am not saying people need to stop being competitive. I am saying it’s natural and understandable.

If there was a lobby to make MF/GF, et cetera partywide, then you’d probably see some other complaints in reverse starting up . . . that people are being pressured to help the group by running more of these so they can benefit the team. Yes, I can see that argument starting right now in an alternate world’s web forum

I think it depends on how you set it up, if you had diminishing returns, then I feel you would end up with everyone in a group taking a bit of it, rather than people being forced into it. As 7 bits of armor across the group would have far less impact than increasing from 5 to 6.

I think the real test is the people that are taking Magic Find should be up front about it, and tell there group. If the group doesn’t want someone with Magic Find in it, it really shouldn’t have to deal with them. However I doubt many of the people that run with full Magic Find sets would do this. But it’s the real test of the pudding. If they find they are kicked from every Dungeon group because of it, or asked not to use it, it suggest the majority are against it in it’s current incarnation.

Ratty.5176:

I think the real test is the people that are taking Magic Find should be up front about it, and tell there group. If the group doesn’t want someone with Magic Find in it, it really shouldn’t have to deal with them. However I doubt many of the people that run with full Magic Find sets would do this. But it’s the real test of the pudding. If they find they are kicked from every Dungeon group because of it, or asked not to use it, it suggest the majority are against it in it’s current incarnation.

. . . which becomes more of a reason to hide it rather than a reason to think about changing it Many of the people investing in high Magic Find aren’t going to put it away.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Does anyone else feel a sense of dread when you find out that the party member who has already died 3x in the first room of the dungeon is running MF gear?

I feel like MF gear should effect the entire party’s loot tables, because as it stands now…. in my honest opinion, anyone running MF stats is just leeching off of everyone else.

Everyone contributes in killing the enemy.
The player running MF gear is dealing less dmg/healing less/etc.
player with MF gear (potentially) gets better loot than everyone else.

If the entire party’s loot tables were effected, this would completely eliminate any animosity toward players running MF gear, and it would make it fair to all players.

With the addition of the new infusions and amulets, I feel like more and more people will be running MF and GF instead of getting useful stats, and this was secretly the intention of Anet all along.

+4power or +20MF?

“What difference does 4 power make? I’ll take the MF”

Most players are going to be choosing the MF or GF…. and I will be choosing one that actually contributes to my character’s stats.

I avoid players who run MF gear as much as I can. Unfortunately for me, and everyone with my mentality…. the current MF system is player based… and the only way to change my feelings is to make it party-wide!

I’m new and only solo so far and recently started using a little mf to try to get a little good gear, so take this with a grain of salt.
Isn’t the purpose of doing those too-hard-to-be-fun group things to get loot? Betcha 80% would do an easier solo if they could get the same loot. Sooooooo….shouldn’t your complaint be about whatever you’re doing is too hard, since your buddy has died 3 times at the beginning?

Anwar.2018:

Isn’t the purpose of doing those too-hard-to-be-fun group things to get loot? Betcha 80% would do an easier solo if they could get the same loot. Sooooooo….shouldn’t your complaint be about whatever you’re doing is too hard, since your buddy has died 3 times at the beginning?

I don’t know, I play a MMO to play with other players, otherwise I would be playing Dishonored or Assassin’s Creed 3.

I don’t think any of the Dungeons in this game are too hard to be fun except possibly Path 4 Arah. You should of seen us last night doing a Level 34 fractal, we were having such a laugh.

Question: does the magic thingie work after mob dies but before looting? If so, seems you could make a hot key to trade out outfits before and after looting.

Rezzet.3614:

you wont even notice the MF on skilled players even i trash dungeons in a blink with MF gear. so its more a L2P issue.

Of course you will notice it… basicly you are tieing a entire stat + your runes in a stat that brings absolutely nothing of benefit to the team.

If you got the skill to drop toughness for mf, then you also got the skill to drop it for Crit Dmg, which makes a hell of a diffrence.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Rezzet.3614:

you wont even notice the MF on skilled players even i trash dungeons in a blink with MF gear. so its more a L2P issue.

Of course you will notice it… basicly you are tieing a entire stat + your runes in a stat that brings absolutely nothing of benefit to the team.

If you got the skill to drop toughness for mf, then you also got the skill to drop it for Crit Dmg, which makes a hell of a diffrence.

Only if your actually landing critical hits. Much like “Magic Find” will only come into play if things actually drop :P Both are gambling on actually being effective.

Of course, someone could come in wearing Cleric’s instead of Knight’s.

You are pretty much always gonna be landing critical hits, and its only gonna take 1 total to make it more effective then mf.

If nothing else simply from fury.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

You are pretty much always gonna be landing critical hits, and its only gonna take 1 total to make it more effective then mf.

If nothing else simply from fury.

. . . yeah, I don’t always land critical hits, never had a run where every hit was a critical. Even with Fury involved. I guess I need to wear Berserker’s armor of the Berserker instead of Medium Armageddon armor of Balthazar.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Rezzet.3614:

you wont even notice the MF on skilled players even i trash dungeons in a blink with MF gear. so its more a L2P issue.

Of course you will notice it… basicly you are tieing a entire stat + your runes in a stat that brings absolutely nothing of benefit to the team.

If you got the skill to drop toughness for mf, then you also got the skill to drop it for Crit Dmg, which makes a hell of a diffrence.

Only if your actually landing critical hits. Much like “Magic Find” will only come into play if things actually drop :P Both are gambling on actually being effective.

That is wrong.

Crit damage will always benefit someone with a high precision stat. If you have precision with no crit damage…. your precision is useless also (unless of course you have traits/sigils that apply conditions on crit. In this case, condition dmg would be chosen over crit dmg)

If you don’t have the precision to benefit from crit damage, run something else…
If you don’t have enough precision to crit a significant amount, run something else.

Why would you increase your chance to crit…. if your crits do the same as a regular attack?

There is no “gamble” when you replace MF with a useful stat. There is a guaranteed increase in performance. You can’t argue with results.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

There is no “gamble” when you replace MF with a useful stat. There is a guaranteed increase in performance. You can’t argue with results.

I can argue with results, if the results aren’t what people say I should be getting. Or if, as the case was when I actually mostly ran Berserker’s . . . I spend a lot of my time on the floor for catching a hit.

If you swap MF for Precision you don’t get any squishier than you were with the MF. Precision stat doesn’t decrease your survivability.

Ratty.5176:

If you swap MF for Precision you don’t get any squishier than you were with the MF. Precision stat doesn’t decrease your survivability.

I’m not wearing MF anymore. I only wore it on trinkets in the first place and those have been slowly replaced. I’m wearing the armor bought with Karma from the Temple of Balthazar (unchanged). About the only difference is that I’m not getting dropped 100% of the time by a thief burst-damaging on me in WvW. More like 80% of the time.

I’m also not happy to report that the bump in Power hasn’t made too much difference. I still barely break 3500 on a Rapid Fire.

Anwar.2018:

Question: does the magic thingie work after mob dies but before looting? If so, seems you could make a hot key to trade out outfits before and after looting.

MF applies (and loot is decided) when the mob dies, so that won’t work. This has been stated by the Devs.

Sure you can wear as many MF you want but i wanna know about it when iam in party with those leechers. I dont know why do we see such an useless stat like Achieve. points i get this game is about skins so inspect is probably out of table but some tab with basic stats would be nice.
Few days ago me and my 2 freinds went for 36 daily so i made post on lfg and some war and ranger came, later we find out they are wearing MF becase when we asked which armor they have (We were suspicious after a while. There were down too much and it was waaaay too slow) and they linked us completely different armor then they were wearing in short our 36lvl fractal run was long like 48lvl run it was just crazy slow.
Sure for ppl who are doing 1-2 runs per day anyway, they dont mind if it takes 2x long but the rest of us who are looking for fast and smooth runs are seriously gimped by those leechers. You might say i had fast and smooth runs in full MF set, well thats possible but trust me it wasnt because of the MF gear….

Just advertise for what you are really looking for: Full Zerker Warrior.

Problem solved. Anything else is not as efficient and thus not as good for the group.

I’m pretty selfish for bringing my Engineer to the group when everyone knows he doesn’t bring as much to the table as just about every other class.

I kinda think that explorable dungeons should have the Fractal difficulty scale, sans Agony. Only something like 5 difficulty levels. Level 1 is worth 0 MF. Level 5 is worth… I dunno, 140%? And the dungeon itself obviously gets harder/does more damage/yaddayadda.

Dunno what you’d do with existing MF gear though.

I also like averaging, or some other form of math in group content. It’d take tweaking but it seems sound. I’d want Healing Power/Boon Duration/MF for raw support, though.

Why should one be reliant on a group bringing full ’zerks, acceptable builds, twitch play skills, and basically expect other people to gear and play for me to get loot? I expect up to four other people not to be muppets (GW2 is not super hard/gated) and silently leave if this is not the case.

It could be considered rude even – if I want loot then I should gear up, trait/spec/skill, and use consumables suited to my goal. Not only is other people’s gameplay impossible to really control, it infringes on their right to play the way that suits them.

Stacking MF is just a way of introspectively dealing with the gear/loot return problem without having to worry about other people!

Again, speed runners should party together-MF “problem” over.

Telling people that they must wear max DPS to ensure the fastest, “smoothest” run possible isn’t any less selfish than someone that supposedly “need to be carried” due to MF gear. Simply put, telling others what they must use to ensure an “optimal” party run is selfish as well (and I am SURE many MF gear users are not selfish at all-not even in principle.)

Note that the Wayfarer’s Exotic trinkets sold at Melandru’s temple offer vitality/toughness/MF%, which may or not be of use to MF gear users out there (yep, some people have exotic farming gear, and that’s OK too.) Damage will be poorer of course, but they will be slightly sturdier in that fashion.

I won’t use MF gear on Dungeons/Fractals, but not due to some “fairness” principle (though I am a fair individual), but because I enjoy playing with stats that suit my builds, which often aren’t just Power/Precision, and I also like to have the better stats for my own benefit. That said, I absolutely LOATHE telling people how they must play GW2, much less tell them they are using “the wrong gear” because they don’t use what I would rather have them use.

MF gear is neutral-not selfish nor unselfish. Only their users can be either, and that is not related to the gear their characters wear.

No offense meant, and feel free to disagree rather than debate.