Guild Wars 2

Maxite.6102:

Because duel spam isn’t annoying in other games at all, and people totally won’t use it as some childish attempt at peening.

A consequence of playing a MMO is also not having the game tailored to suit whatever wild fantasy you have because you cannot be bothered to open a menu, and go to different area.

It’s not just me, or those that advocate open world dueling. Even the dev’s think custom spvp dueling is an “awkward round-about.” I posted a video where Colin Johanson says those exact words.

Even the dev’s “can’t be bothered to open a menu, and go to a different area.”

If you read any of the suggestions, they all include an auto-decline feature. And i’ve long advocated for a “duel request cooldown,” to prevent spam.

However, those against open dueling won’t hear suggestions, they just want everyone to play their way.

Scrambles.2604:

If dueling is released tomorrow with auto-decline duels enabled as a default, there is NO change to the game. If each person that wants to duel elects to disable that option, people that want to duel would seek out others that want to duel, not people that have made the conscious decision to leave auto-decline on.

Open world dueling will not ruin the game! We already tolerate the loudest players in map chat, even more so with mega servers now. We continue to run dungeons, despite those who kick us for not being a guardian/war.

A consequence of playing an MMO is you have to deal with other people, the best and the worst, even if that means they have the freedom to scream their heads off and jump around constantly and spam skills.

In a perfect world, no this wouldn’t ruin the game. We don’t live in a perfect world, and there is no guarantee that it won’t make the game less hospitable. It has already been shown that when given a tool with the potential to grief, people will use it to grief.

I understand that when playing a MMO that you have to deal with people. I have no issue with that. However you will have to forgive me for not ‘seeing the good’ in people, when it seems that humanity’s base nature is not to be ‘good.’

Scrambles.2604:

Yeah, the interface is a big one i forgot. I’m sure the inflexible and obstructive UI as well as the targeting have driven people away. That’s the only thing i miss from WoW is the “blizzard polish.” Say what you want about blizzard games, but you would have a hard time arguing they are not the most polished games out there.

I just tried WoW once for a day .. and the UI from WoW was one of the worst i ever saw.
Especially have i never seen a map before that was soo inaccurate. Run to point on map and you land 500 feet away from where you really should have gone.

Beldin.5498:

Scrambles.2604:

Yeah, the interface is a big one i forgot. I’m sure the inflexible and obstructive UI as well as the targeting have driven people away. That’s the only thing i miss from WoW is the “blizzard polish.” Say what you want about blizzard games, but you would have a hard time arguing they are not the most polished games out there.

I just tried WoW once for a day .. and the UI from WoW was one of the worst i ever saw.
Especially have i never seen a map before that was soo inaccurate. Run to point on map and you land 500 feet away from where you really should have gone.

well lucky for you, WoW UI is probably the most customizable out there, so you could make it look just like the GW2 one if you wanted. I don’t think you are looking for advice, just things to complain about.

Beldin.5498:

Scrambles.2604:

Yeah, the interface is a big one i forgot. I’m sure the inflexible and obstructive UI as well as the targeting have driven people away. That’s the only thing i miss from WoW is the “blizzard polish.” Say what you want about blizzard games, but you would have a hard time arguing they are not the most polished games out there.

I just tried WoW once for a day .. and the UI from WoW was one of the worst i ever saw.
Especially have i never seen a map before that was soo inaccurate. Run to point on map and you land 500 feet away from where you really should have gone.

Blatant dishonesty right there. I doubt you even played or tinkered much with the UI at all.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

If dueling is released tomorrow with auto-decline duels enabled as a default, there is NO change to the game. If each person that wants to duel elects to disable that option, people that want to duel would seek out others that want to duel, not people that have made the conscious decision to leave auto-decline on.

Open world dueling will not ruin the game! We already tolerate the loudest players in map chat, even more so with mega servers now. We continue to run dungeons, despite those who kick us for not being a guardian/war.

A consequence of playing an MMO is you have to deal with other people, the best and the worst, even if that means they have the freedom to scream their heads off and jump around constantly and spam skills.

In a perfect world, no this wouldn’t ruin the game. We don’t live in a perfect world, and there is no guarantee that it won’t make the game less hospitable. It has already been shown that when given a tool with the potential to grief, people will use it to grief.

I understand that when playing a MMO that you have to deal with people. I have no issue with that. However you will have to forgive me for not ‘seeing the good’ in people, when it seems that humanity’s base nature is not to be ‘good.’

It’s not about seeing the good in people. I will acknowledge that games with duels have people that use it to harass. They also don’t have auto-decline. GW2 doesn’t have duels yet we still see tons of harassment.

The ways i have advocated for duels to be introduced would make it so you wouldn’t be harassed in game any more than you normally are.

Instead, i have to deal with fear mongering and hyperbole and the idea that someone will pick you out, for no reason, and follow you around until you duel. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen? No, not outside of the fantasy scenarios described in these threads.

Bolthar.7192:

I would still like to see this. I know there are dueling servers but I don’t think they quite fulfill the need (is it just me?).

Dueling is necessary for players to have a fair 1v1 battle with their friends without the inevitable 1v1 battle turns into a 3v1 battle ending in rage and exasperation. This also helps a player learn to fight specific classes and hone their skills in a fair environment.

PvE dueling is necessary because players shouldn’t have to go through 2 loading screens and a possible queue to duel with a friend real fast in the mists, then take another 2 loading screens to get back to PvE followed by a waypoint to get close to where they were adventuring before when they decided to have a quick duel.

I feel this feature would be really nice and possibly even introduce PvE players to PvP in a more fun and less frustrating way… among friends and not probably angry strangers.

I do not say your arguments are wrong; just the second dueling is released is the second people scream for 1v1 balance, is the second sPvP balance goes completely out the window.

Scrambles.2604:

It’s not about seeing the good in people. I will acknowledge that games with duels have people that use it to harass. They also don’t have auto-decline. GW2 doesn’t have duels yet we still see tons of harassment.

The ways i have advocated for duels to be introduced would make it so you wouldn’t be harassed in game any more than you normally are.

Instead, i have to deal with fear mongering and hyperbole and the idea that someone will pick you out, for no reason, and follow you around until you duel. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen? No, not outside of the fantasy scenarios described in these threads.

The issue here is that I don’t have faith in it being implemented in such a way. Keep in mind that they built features into the lfg tool to keep people from griefing there too and it only works to a point.

As for the ‘fantasy’ scenario you mentioned, I had that happen to me in WoW several times actually. Norgannon was my main server (a pve server, dueling is off by default), I forget what the other server was that I played on. It’s been a while. It’s not as uncommon as some people like to think. Some people really are just kittens…

sternenstaub.8763:

Bolthar.7192:

I would still like to see this. I know there are dueling servers but I don’t think they quite fulfill the need (is it just me?).

Dueling is necessary for players to have a fair 1v1 battle with their friends without the inevitable 1v1 battle turns into a 3v1 battle ending in rage and exasperation. This also helps a player learn to fight specific classes and hone their skills in a fair environment.

PvE dueling is necessary because players shouldn’t have to go through 2 loading screens and a possible queue to duel with a friend real fast in the mists, then take another 2 loading screens to get back to PvE followed by a waypoint to get close to where they were adventuring before when they decided to have a quick duel.

I feel this feature would be really nice and possibly even introduce PvE players to PvP in a more fun and less frustrating way… among friends and not probably angry strangers.

I do not say your arguments are wrong; just the second dueling is released is the second people scream for 1v1 balance, is the second sPvP balance goes completely out the window.

yeah, because no one ever complains about 1v1 balance. People already 1v1 through the roud-about of custom spvp method and sPvP balance has yet to be defenstrated.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

It’s not about seeing the good in people. I will acknowledge that games with duels have people that use it to harass. They also don’t have auto-decline. GW2 doesn’t have duels yet we still see tons of harassment.

The ways i have advocated for duels to be introduced would make it so you wouldn’t be harassed in game any more than you normally are.

Instead, i have to deal with fear mongering and hyperbole and the idea that someone will pick you out, for no reason, and follow you around until you duel. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen? No, not outside of the fantasy scenarios described in these threads.

The issue here is that I don’t have faith in it being implemented in such a way. Keep in mind that they built features into the lfg tool to keep people from griefing there too and it only works to a point.

As for the ‘fantasy’ scenario you mentioned, I had that happen to me in WoW several times actually. Norgannon was my main server (a pve server, dueling is off by default), I forget what the other server was that I played on. It’s been a while. It’s not as uncommon as some people like to think. Some people really are just kittens…

Oh really? That’s never happened to me after years of playing because I have auto-decline option set and I promptly blocked the one person during that time who couldn’t take no for answer. All in all, problem solved in 30 seconds.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

It’s not about seeing the good in people. I will acknowledge that games with duels have people that use it to harass. They also don’t have auto-decline. GW2 doesn’t have duels yet we still see tons of harassment.

The ways i have advocated for duels to be introduced would make it so you wouldn’t be harassed in game any more than you normally are.

Instead, i have to deal with fear mongering and hyperbole and the idea that someone will pick you out, for no reason, and follow you around until you duel. Can it happen? Sure. Will it happen? No, not outside of the fantasy scenarios described in these threads.

The issue here is that I don’t have faith in it being implemented in such a way. Keep in mind that they built features into the lfg tool to keep people from griefing there too and it only works to a point.

As for the ‘fantasy’ scenario you mentioned, I had that happen to me in WoW several times actually. Norgannon was my main server (a pve server, dueling is off by default), I forget what the other server was that I played on. It’s been a while. It’s not as uncommon as some people like to think. Some people really are just kittens…

But we’ve both agreed we live in a pessimistic, dystopian MMO environment, littered with trolls and miscreants…with or without dueling. Yet we continue to play. Maybe our will is strong enough that we can continue to live and play as we do, despite the occasional jerk encounter.

Do i quit and uninstall every time i get booted from a dungeon cuz i chose to play my thief? No not at all. Because i acknowledge that this is the world we live in. I mean, did you quit WoW solely because of that one time a troll wanted to duel you a little too much?

Annoying /== Game breaking. Dueling with not break the game.

what if they allow duels in orr only, let’s see how “fun” it really is.
it’s out of the way of every PvE-er and within the open world, not that you can do anything there but you have the option regardless.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Oh really? That’s never happened to me after years of playing because I have auto-decline option set and I promptly blocked the one person during that time who couldn’t take no for answer. All in all, problem solved in 30 seconds.

Yes, really. Perhaps it’s just that server I guess? Since so many of you seem to believe this never happens. Although, I had it happen to me on the other server too, was trying to level my human priest and the stupid death knight just would not leave me the hell alone. He killed everything in Elwynn Forest around me so I couldn’t do my kitten quests. Super frustrating.

While we don’t have issues with kill stealing or node stealing in GW2, we do have an issue with the block feature not working the best. Even though we can block someone, they can still see when we are online. Can still see what map we are on. It also doesn’t block emotes. Some people are enough of an kitten that they would hunt you down and spam emotes at you (though you can turn them off, that still doesn’t make them go away). I’ve also seen children recruit their friends to harrass someone after they themself have been blocked. Reporting them doesn’t make them leave either, nothing happens until it gets reviewed. So perhaps the person should just have to log off until something is done? That’s fair right?

I’ve seen these first hand, from both sides, actually. I had a guildie in WoW that acted like this, I booted his sorry kitten very quickly. And guess what, he plays GW2. How do I know, he messaged me… and he has me on follow…and he uses the same game name.

Perhaps for some, these are ‘worst case’ scenarios. For some, it’s just rotten luck. Don’t necessarily discount something as ‘blown out of proportion’ just because it didn’t happen to you, or you didn’t see it with your own eyes.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Oh really? That’s never happened to me after years of playing because I have auto-decline option set and I promptly blocked the one person during that time who couldn’t take no for answer. All in all, problem solved in 30 seconds.

Yes, really. Perhaps it’s just that server I guess? Since so many of you seem to believe this never happens. Although, I had it happen to me on the other server too, was trying to level my human priest and the stupid death knight just would not leave me the hell alone. He killed everything in Elwynn Forest around me so I couldn’t do my kitten quests. Super frustrating.

While we don’t have issues with kill stealing or node stealing in GW2, we do have an issue with the block feature not working the best. Even though we can block someone, they can still see when we are online. Can still see what map we are on. It also doesn’t block emotes. Some people are enough of an kitten that they would hunt you down and spam emotes at you (though you can turn them off, that still doesn’t make them go away). I’ve also seen children recruit their friends to harrass someone after they themself have been blocked. Reporting them doesn’t make them leave either, nothing happens until it gets reviewed. So perhaps the person should just have to log off until something is done? That’s fair right?

I’ve seen these first hand, from both sides, actually. I had a guildie in WoW that acted like this, I booted his sorry kitten very quickly. And guess what, he plays GW2. How do I know, he messaged me… and he has me on follow…and he uses the same game name.

Perhaps for some, these are ‘worst case’ scenarios. For some, it’s just rotten luck. Don’t necessarily discount something as ‘blown out of proportion’ just because it didn’t happen to you, or you didn’t see it with your own eyes.

Lanfear, you continue to describe what most would call “harassment” but you attribute it to dueling. I won’t argue harassment is an ongoing issue, but i don’t think your issue is truly with open world duels.

Your anger for being harassed (not unwarranted) is being misattributed to dueling.

Scrambles.2604:

Lanafear, you continue to describe what most would call “harassment” but you attribute it to dueling. I won’t argue harassment is an ongoing issue, but i don’t think your issue is truly with open world duels.

Your anger for being harassed (not unwarranted) is being misattributed to dueling.

I get that it’s harassment. I know that. What I’ve been trying to point out is that it tends to be more prevalent with certain types of game modes.

I admit that I have not played a lot of MMOs. However, when you start to see a trend among certain types of games modes, you start to associate the 2.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

Lanafear, you continue to describe what most would call “harassment” but you attribute it to dueling. I won’t argue harassment is an ongoing issue, but i don’t think your issue is truly with open world duels.

Your anger for being harassed (not unwarranted) is being misattributed to dueling.

I get that it’s harassment. I know that. What I’ve been trying to point out is that it tends to be more prevalent with certain types of game modes.

I admit that I have not played a lot of MMOs. However, when you start to see a trend among certain types of games modes, you start to associate the 2.

Cmon, dawg. Correlation =/= Causation.

You probably get more harrassment in WoW because there is such a larger player base. More players = more chances to be harassed. WoW also has a free trial, so its not unreasonable to run into low lvls that are there solely to harass you.

Scrambles.2604:

Cmon, dawg. Correlation =/= Causation.

You probably get more harrassment in WoW because there is such a larger player base. More players = more chances to be harassed. WoW also has a free trial, so its not unreasonable to run into low lvls that are there solely to harass you.

There is a reason why stereotypes exist. They aren’t always 100% accurate from case to case, but they are rooted in commonality.

In the few scenarios I’ve mentioned, it wasn’t low level players doing the griefing. The death knight was a max level (which was 80 at the time, pre-MoP), my priest wasn’t even a 10… (I was just trying to get her high enough to do AB!)

More low levels does not necessarily mean more harassment. Just as having a free trial period doesn’t necessarily mean more harassment. True, more people does make it more likely… but that doesn’t mean it’s going to come from the lower levels.

Scrambles.2604:

Beldin.5498:

Scrambles.2604:

Yeah, the interface is a big one i forgot. I’m sure the inflexible and obstructive UI as well as the targeting have driven people away. That’s the only thing i miss from WoW is the “blizzard polish.” Say what you want about blizzard games, but you would have a hard time arguing they are not the most polished games out there.

I just tried WoW once for a day .. and the UI from WoW was one of the worst i ever saw.
Especially have i never seen a map before that was soo inaccurate. Run to point on map and you land 500 feet away from where you really should have gone.

well lucky for you, WoW UI is probably the most customizable out there, so you could make it look just like the GW2 one if you wanted. I don’t think you are looking for advice, just things to complain about.

It may be customizable, but thats just work from people who don’t work for Blizzard, and the standard UI is still garbage. And i also installed some Map Addons, and the map was still not leading me really to where i wanted to go.

And why the hell should i look for advice here about the greatness of the WoW UI ?

EQ2 Ui was much better even if it was visual not so great. RIFT and AION had maybe UIs that looked good and had also quite good functionality without using any addons.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

Cmon, dawg. Correlation =/= Causation.

You probably get more harrassment in WoW because there is such a larger player base. More players = more chances to be harassed. WoW also has a free trial, so its not unreasonable to run into low lvls that are there solely to harass you.

There is a reason why stereotypes exist. They aren’t always 100% accurate from case to case, but they are rooted in commonality.

In the few scenarios I’ve mentioned, it wasn’t low level players doing the griefing. The death knight was a max level (which was 80 at the time, pre-MoP), my priest wasn’t even a 10… (I was just trying to get her high enough to do AB!)

More low levels does not necessarily mean more harassment. Just as having a free trial period doesn’t necessarily mean more harassment. True, more people does make it more likely… but that doesn’t mean it’s going to come from the lower levels.

So, to make sure we’re on the same page.. You don’t want open world duels because one time in WoW a max level player harassed you and killed all the mobs before you could?

Maybe there’s more to it, or more scenarios…but your reasoning is starting to get a little outlandish (get it? outlands? aaahh whatever… WoW joke.).

Beldin.5498:

Scrambles.2604:

Beldin.5498:

Scrambles.2604:

Yeah, the interface is a big one i forgot. I’m sure the inflexible and obstructive UI as well as the targeting have driven people away. That’s the only thing i miss from WoW is the “blizzard polish.” Say what you want about blizzard games, but you would have a hard time arguing they are not the most polished games out there.

I just tried WoW once for a day .. and the UI from WoW was one of the worst i ever saw.
Especially have i never seen a map before that was soo inaccurate. Run to point on map and you land 500 feet away from where you really should have gone.

well lucky for you, WoW UI is probably the most customizable out there, so you could make it look just like the GW2 one if you wanted. I don’t think you are looking for advice, just things to complain about.

It may be customizable, but thats just work from people who don’t work for Blizzard, and the standard UI is still garbage. And i also installed some Map Addons, and the map was still not leading me really to where i wanted to go.

And why the hell should i look for advice here about the greatness of the WoW UI ?

EQ2 Ui was much better even if it was visual not so great. RIFT and AION had maybe UIs that looked good and had also quite good functionality without using any addons.

GOING OFF THE RAILS ON A CRAZY TRAIN!!

Scrambles.2604:

So, to make sure we’re on the same page.. You don’t want open world duels because one time in WoW a max level player harassed you and killed all the mobs before you could?

Maybe there’s more to it, or more scenarios…but your reasoning is starting to get a little outlandish (get it? outlands? aaahh whatever… WoW joke.).

I prefer not to have open world duels due to the mentality they seem to foster and because in the spirit of GW1, I believe pvp belongs in the mists. Separate from pve.

Its ok that you feel the need to trivialize harassment because it’s ‘just a game.’ It doesn’t matter if this happened once, or a hundred times. Because it’s ‘teh internetz’ its apparently ok. Its not like we carry any of this mentality out into the real world with us after all. After all if its ok to bully someone on a video game, how is that any different than Facebook? Its just the internet, no one gets hurt….. until someone commits suicide, or someone steals a gun a shoots someone else in the back. Its the internet, its perfectly ok.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

So, to make sure we’re on the same page.. You don’t want open world duels because one time in WoW a max level player harassed you and killed all the mobs before you could?

Maybe there’s more to it, or more scenarios…but your reasoning is starting to get a little outlandish (get it? outlands? aaahh whatever… WoW joke.).

I prefer not to have open world duels due to the mentality they seem to foster and because in the spirit of GW1, I believe pvp belongs in the mists. Separate from pve.

Its ok that you feel the need to trivialize harassment because it’s ‘just a game.’ It doesn’t matter if this happened once, or a hundred times. Because it’s ‘teh internetz’ its apparently ok. Its not like we carry any of this mentality out into the real world with us after all. After all if its ok to bully someone on a video game, how is that any different than Facebook? Its just the internet, no one gets hurt….. until someone commits suicide, or someone steals a gun a shoots someone else in the back. Its the internet, its perfectly ok.

i’m not trying to trivialize it. I know it sucks, but we both agreed that sort of thing can be expected as a result of dealing with real people. It sucks but i don’t have any sympathy because we have all dealt with it at some point. It is an inevitable consequence in every MMO.

Me, i just roll with the punches. Someone way out of my league wants to duel? Ok i’ll duel them, get stomped and move on. Let them get it out of their system. Trolls want you to try to avoid them, they want to see your displeasure.

More importantly, don’t focus on how jerk players will abuse new game features. Focus on how good players can benefit. The majority of players are well meaning, but the worst ones stick out. The majority of players will use duels properly and respectfully.

You will only remember the ones that abuse it…When youve done everything right, people wont be sure you’ve done anything at all.

Scrambles.2604:

i’m not trying to trivialize it. I know it sucks, but we both agreed that sort of thing can be expected as a result of dealing with real people. It sucks but i don’t have any sympathy because we have all dealt with it at some point. It is an inevitable consequence in every MMO.

Me, i just roll with the punches. Someone way out of my league wants to duel? Ok i’ll duel them, get stomped and move on. Let them get it out of their system. Trolls want you to try to avoid them, they want to see your displeasure.

More importantly, don’t focus on how jerk players will abuse new game features. Focus on how good players can benefit. The majority of players are well meaning, but the worst ones stick out. The majority of players will use duels properly and respectfully.

You will only remember the ones that abuse it…When youve done everything right, people wont be sure you’ve done anything at all.

But you are trivialzing it, and that’s a problem.

Yes, there is always going to be some kittens. Some level of annoyance, and for a lack of a better word, an ‘acceptable’ level of this crap. However, with the current systems available for blocking and reporting, there isn’t good way to handle the more severe cases of harassment.

Now, should that get adjusted / fixed and they address concerns with the various types of griefing (ie, standing on an npc that people need to talk to, etc), then fine. However, I’m not going to hold my breath.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

i’m not trying to trivialize it. I know it sucks, but we both agreed that sort of thing can be expected as a result of dealing with real people. It sucks but i don’t have any sympathy because we have all dealt with it at some point. It is an inevitable consequence in every MMO.

Me, i just roll with the punches. Someone way out of my league wants to duel? Ok i’ll duel them, get stomped and move on. Let them get it out of their system. Trolls want you to try to avoid them, they want to see your displeasure.

More importantly, don’t focus on how jerk players will abuse new game features. Focus on how good players can benefit. The majority of players are well meaning, but the worst ones stick out. The majority of players will use duels properly and respectfully.

You will only remember the ones that abuse it…When youve done everything right, people wont be sure you’ve done anything at all.

But you are trivialzing it, and that’s a problem.

Yes, there is always going to be some kittens. Some level of annoyance, and for a lack of a better word, an ‘acceptable’ level of this crap. However, with the current systems available for blocking and reporting, there isn’t good way to handle the more severe cases of harassment.

Now, should that get adjusted / fixed and they address concerns with the various types of griefing (ie, standing on an npc that people need to talk to, etc), then fine. However, I’m not going to hold my breath.

I’m sorry you are being harassed but this is a discussion about dueling and you continue to talk about issues that are not duel related. Maybe that is why it seems like i am trivializing your issues, but i am focused on the subject.

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

i’m not trying to trivialize it. I know it sucks, but we both agreed that sort of thing can be expected as a result of dealing with real people. It sucks but i don’t have any sympathy because we have all dealt with it at some point. It is an inevitable consequence in every MMO.

Me, i just roll with the punches. Someone way out of my league wants to duel? Ok i’ll duel them, get stomped and move on. Let them get it out of their system. Trolls want you to try to avoid them, they want to see your displeasure.

More importantly, don’t focus on how jerk players will abuse new game features. Focus on how good players can benefit. The majority of players are well meaning, but the worst ones stick out. The majority of players will use duels properly and respectfully.

You will only remember the ones that abuse it…When youve done everything right, people wont be sure you’ve done anything at all.

But you are trivialzing it, and that’s a problem.

Yes, there is always going to be some kittens. Some level of annoyance, and for a lack of a better word, an ‘acceptable’ level of this crap. However, with the current systems available for blocking and reporting, there isn’t good way to handle the more severe cases of harassment.

Now, should that get adjusted / fixed and they address concerns with the various types of griefing (ie, standing on an npc that people need to talk to, etc), then fine. However, I’m not going to hold my breath.

I’m sorry you are being harassed but this is a discussion about dueling and you continue to talk about issues that are not duel related. Maybe that is why it seems like i am trivializing your issues, but i am focused on the subject.

And so am I, but you’re simply dismissing it, when the harassment being discussed comes from the dueling community. Not all, obviously, but enough that a multitude of people across numerous threads have voiced concerns.

You’re saying that harassment doesn’t come from dueling, when I and many others have given multitudes of examples where it is / has. I’m pretty sure people are tired of voicing valid concerns, to simply be told by people like you to simply ‘toughen up.’

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

i’m not trying to trivialize it. I know it sucks, but we both agreed that sort of thing can be expected as a result of dealing with real people. It sucks but i don’t have any sympathy because we have all dealt with it at some point. It is an inevitable consequence in every MMO.

Me, i just roll with the punches. Someone way out of my league wants to duel? Ok i’ll duel them, get stomped and move on. Let them get it out of their system. Trolls want you to try to avoid them, they want to see your displeasure.

More importantly, don’t focus on how jerk players will abuse new game features. Focus on how good players can benefit. The majority of players are well meaning, but the worst ones stick out. The majority of players will use duels properly and respectfully.

You will only remember the ones that abuse it…When youve done everything right, people wont be sure you’ve done anything at all.

But you are trivialzing it, and that’s a problem.

Yes, there is always going to be some kittens. Some level of annoyance, and for a lack of a better word, an ‘acceptable’ level of this crap. However, with the current systems available for blocking and reporting, there isn’t good way to handle the more severe cases of harassment.

Now, should that get adjusted / fixed and they address concerns with the various types of griefing (ie, standing on an npc that people need to talk to, etc), then fine. However, I’m not going to hold my breath.

I’m sorry you are being harassed but this is a discussion about dueling and you continue to talk about issues that are not duel related. Maybe that is why it seems like i am trivializing your issues, but i am focused on the subject.

And so am I, but you’re simply dismissing it, when the harassment being discussed comes from the dueling community. Not all, obviously, but enough that a multitude of people across numerous threads have voiced concerns.

You’re saying that harassment doesn’t come from dueling, when I and many others have given multitudes of examples where it is / has. I’m pretty sure people are tired of voicing valid concerns, to simply be told by people like you to simply ‘toughen up.’

Harassment comes from jerk players. It can happen anywhere…i mean the example you gave didn’t even have anything to do with dueling.

You are bound to run into rude players in MMOs, that is a given. You deal with it or you uninstall, that’s really your only options after you’ve exhausted ignore/report, etc.

My argument is that you shouldn’t let the behaviors of the loud minority of rude players determine what features should be available to players.

What if Anet wanted to add voice chat? That would be crucial for WvW players, that are forced to use TS servers. Do we say no because that would give harassers another avenue to troll people? Despite the majority of players that will use it properly?

It’s the same with duels. Many people would benefit greatly from the addition of open world duels, and i think it would also bring players back into the game and generate additional, sustained revenue for Anet over time.

But we say no to this feature? Because, despite tools put in place to prevent harassment, a potential for abuse still exists? I don’t think that is a good enough reason to warrant no duels at all.

This all reduces to “someone might be mean to me on the internet so no open world PvE duels”. I wonder if they should remove champ trains because someone might be mean and kill one out of order? Sound like a good reason to not have them in game at all?

Hey, not sure if this has been said but…you don’t have to go through two loading screens to do a duel. Let’s say you’re super busy in Queensdale doing really important stuff and don’t have time to go through two loading screens? No problem! Just click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, then select the PvP server list from that menu, and double-click on an empty one.

Bam, you’re there! Your friend can right-click your name from the contact menu and choose “join friend in PvP.”

When you’re done, you will have to go through two loading screens to get back to queensdale, it’s true. But don’t let that discourage you.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hey, not sure if this has been said but…you don’t have to go through two loading screens to do a duel. Let’s say you’re super busy in Queensdale doing really important stuff and don’t have time to go through two loading screens? No problem! Just click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, then select the PvP server list from that menu, and double-click on an empty one.

Bam, you’re there! Your friend can right-click your name from the contact menu and choose “join friend in PvP.”

When you’re done, you will have to go through two loading screens to get back to queensdale, it’s true. But don’t let that discourage you.

I tried to introduce my friend to GW2. He has a new lvl 5 guardian and wanted to test some PvP. So we head to the mysts. Let me tell you, it is frustrating trying to explain to a brand new player that he needs to go here to get weapons, here to get runes, what runes are, what sigils are, etc.

In any other MMO I couldve just dueled his lvl 5 guardian there where he was questing, where he could use the skills he had just learned and was familiar with. This game lacks any introduction to PvP and open world duels would fill that gap.

Scrambles.2604:

But we say no to this feature? Because, despite tools put in place to prevent harassment, a potential for abuse still exists? I don’t think that is a good enough reason to warrant no duels at all.

I did say two posts back, that if they addressed the issues with the block and report features, along with some other concerns, then fine. As in, ok put them in. Or did you miss that?

Yes, harassment happens across all parts of the game. I was trying to limit the discussion of it as it pertained to this topic.

Scrambles.2604:

I tried to introduce my friend to GW2. He has a new lvl 5 guardian and wanted to test some PvP. So we head to the mysts. Let me tell you, it is frustrating trying to explain to a brand new player that he needs to go here to get weapons, here to get runes, what runes are, what sigils are, etc.

In any other MMO I couldve just dueled his lvl 5 guardian there where he was questing, where he could use the skills he had just learned and was familiar with. This game lacks any introduction to PvP and open world duels would fill that gap.

I guess he would have had one helluva time in GW1 then….

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

But we say no to this feature? Because, despite tools put in place to prevent harassment, a potential for abuse still exists? I don’t think that is a good enough reason to warrant no duels at all.

I did say two posts back, that if they addressed the issues with the block and report features, along with some other concerns, then fine. As in, ok put them in. Or did you miss that?

Yes, harassment happens across all parts of the game. I was trying to limit the discussion of it as it pertained to this topic.

Lanfear, i’m not trying to be rude so no need to get all snippy. We’re all still friends here chatting on the forums instead of working >_>

I agree the block/report features probably needs work. I haven’t really blocked many people besides gold sellers so i don’t have a lot of personal experience with this issue. You seem to be a magnet for trolls or something. I tend to keep to myself and my guild and rarely post in map chat outside of WvW.

Regardless, your concerns are once again about something that is not duels so i am trying my best to keep this train on it’s rails.

Scrambles.2604:

Lanfear, i’m not trying to be rude so no need to get all snippy. We’re all still friends here chatting on the forums instead of working >_>

I agree the block/report features probably needs work. I haven’t really blocked many people besides gold sellers so i don’t have a lot of personal experience with this issue. You seem to be a magnet for trolls or something. I tend to keep to myself and my guild and rarely post in map chat outside of WvW.

Regardless, your concerns are once again about something that is not duels so i am trying my best to keep this train on it’s rails.

I wasn’t being snippy, but I can be if you’d like.

OK fine, my concerns have nothing to do with duels. They aren’t related in any way. You heard him folks. Our concerns aren’t related, they aren’t valid. Don’t warrant discussion or consideration as they aren’t related to the topic. Just like every other time this has come, we don’t agree so we don’t matter.

/vote no on open world duels

One of the problems I see with having duels is the fact that I don’t trust ANet to properly piece together a counter for it.
What I mean is, in every one of these dead horse topics folks have stated “just auto-decline”. That would be all well and good, but I can’t see Anet putting together something like that.

The blocked list/ignore feature is primitive at best, a joke at the worst.
We do not have any form of auto decline on guild invites nor on party invites.
So with all that said, I doubt they would have an auto-decline on duels.

Keep PvP in their spot away from the PvE maps. I’m already annoyed with the flag sticking I have to do with mobs anyways. No need to further contaminate.

Now if ANet did provide a auto-decline on day one of a release for duels. I’d gladly use it. Also, chances are I wouldn’t care if a mob train followed players and landed right near a duel. Frankly the duelers deserve it if all they want to do is bypass the custom arenas.

If anything custom arenas should either be cheaper or in PvE places like The Bane should have a dueling option. This way those that want this can have it far away from the rest of the maps, there are no mobs to interfere with them, and if you enter such an area it is implied you have an interest in dueling.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

Lanfear, i’m not trying to be rude so no need to get all snippy. We’re all still friends here chatting on the forums instead of working >_>

I agree the block/report features probably needs work. I haven’t really blocked many people besides gold sellers so i don’t have a lot of personal experience with this issue. You seem to be a magnet for trolls or something. I tend to keep to myself and my guild and rarely post in map chat outside of WvW.

Regardless, your concerns are once again about something that is not duels so i am trying my best to keep this train on it’s rails.

I wasn’t being snippy, but I can be if you’d like.

OK fine, my concerns have nothing to do with duels. They aren’t related in any way. You heard him folks. Our concerns aren’t related, they aren’t valid. Don’t warrant discussion or consideration as they aren’t related to the topic. Just like every other time this has come, we don’t agree so we don’t matter.

/vote no on open world duels

Cmon Lanfear, don’t be like that. Your concerns have been heard and beaten into the ground along with this zombie horse thread. I have been advocating for open world duels that include:

Auto-decline option (on by default. or off, your choice)
Duel request cooldown – can only request duel certain amount of times before locked out of duel with that person for a period of time to reduce spam.

Both of these tools would go along way to prevent what you fear so vehemently. Otherwise, if the ignore/block/report features got fixed, all of your concerns may be a thing of the past.

You seem to be still playing this game despite the toxicity we occasionally see in every area of the game, and i feel strongly that adding open world duels wont change anything.

Scrambles.2604:

Those that advocate against duels invent fantasy situations where what features we are allowed in game are dictated by a made-up 12 year old that lives to ruin your game play.

Harassment is an entirely different beast and i don’t think it is fair to automatically pair dueling and harassment. Harassment occurs with or without dueling and there are systems in place to prevent it.

The second point is much better than the first.

The former point demonstrates a lack of understanding of both how humans think and behavioral trends on the internet. Using this point weakens your argument. Belittling others’ concerns is similar behavior to that the posters you are belittling are against. It only convinces people who are already in agreement with you.

The latter point acknowledges that people can be kittens, while pointing out that bad behavior is not inextricably tied to certain game features, it is only enabled by it. This point strengthens your argument. This point is much more indicative of a desire to compromise because it acknowledges peoples’ concerns.

A compromise solution might be to implement an auto-decline feature and restrict duels in some social hubs while allowing duels. This way, players could duel in most places, the duel request spam complaint would be addressed. people could use ignore/report for annoying behavior (much as they do now) and someone who doesn’t want to be around dueling has places to go where they are guaranteed to avoid it if they want to work on a build, RP, use the bank/crafting stations or chat.

edit: I see from your most recent post that you are in favor of compromise, but your compromise only addresses duel spam.

Scrambles.2604:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hey, not sure if this has been said but…you don’t have to go through two loading screens to do a duel. Let’s say you’re super busy in Queensdale doing really important stuff and don’t have time to go through two loading screens? No problem! Just click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, then select the PvP server list from that menu, and double-click on an empty one.

Bam, you’re there! Your friend can right-click your name from the contact menu and choose “join friend in PvP.”

When you’re done, you will have to go through two loading screens to get back to queensdale, it’s true. But don’t let that discourage you.

I tried to introduce my friend to GW2. He has a new lvl 5 guardian and wanted to test some PvP. So we head to the mysts. Let me tell you, it is frustrating trying to explain to a brand new player that he needs to go here to get weapons, here to get runes, what runes are, what sigils are, etc.

In any other MMO I couldve just dueled his lvl 5 guardian there where he was questing, where he could use the skills he had just learned and was familiar with. This game lacks any introduction to PvP and open world duels would fill that gap.

More good news! PvP builds have been changed so that you no longer have to visit all the different vendors in the Heart of the Mists to set up your PvP build. The top of your screen now has a “PvP build” option visible when you are in a PvP map or the HotM. Just click it open and choose any gear/trait combinations you want from dropdown menus.

Even better, you will automatically be using the same weapon sets you have equipped in PvE. No more totally-foreign build to worry about once you step into the HotM—if your level 5 friend was using a hammer in PvE, he’ll be using a hammer in PvP. Better yet, his stats and traits will be boosted to level 80 so that you don’t kill him in two hits like you would if you dueled his level 5 character.

Although probably your friend would be better off to level a bit more before doing PvP. It doesn’t really matter whether he has to buy runes/sigils/etc from a vendor or not if he has no idea what any of those things are.

Scrambles.2604:

Cmon Lanfear, don’t be like that. Your concerns have been heard and beaten into the ground along with this zombie horse thread. I have been advocating for open world duels that include:

Auto-decline option (on by default. or off, your choice)
Duel request cooldown – can only request duel certain amount of times before locked out of duel with that person for a period of time to reduce spam.

Both of these tools would go along way to prevent what you fear so vehemently. Otherwise, if the ignore/block/report features got fixed, all of your concerns may be a thing of the past.

You seem to be still playing this game despite the toxicity we occasionally see in every area of the game, and i feel strongly that adding open world duels wont change anything.

And I was, to an extent, leaning in your direction. Obviously the various concerns hold merit or you wouldn’t have made the suggestions you have. Yet you continue to trivialize and tell us that it doesn’t relate to the issue..

Others have voiced the concern that they don’t think Anet would implement it properly, which I also feel is probably accurate. Saddening, but accurate.

I’m not afraid of being harassed. Be it in duels, or dungeons, or wvw, or whatever. It’s frustrating. It’s annoying. This grown woman knows how to retaliate and that shuts most people up. Not all, but most. Unfortunately, it’s also earned me a temp ban a time or two lol. So yeah, not afraid of it. That doesn’t mean I want to encourage it or increase it either though, and there isn’t anything wrong with being concerned about that.

Yes, I play. Like you, I tend to keep to myself… well I try to. I don’t always succeed. I don’t know if open world duels would make things more toxic or not, I can’t see the future. Doesn’t mean there’s no cause for concern though.

Scrambles.2604:

I’m sorry you are being harassed but this is a discussion about dueling and you continue to talk about issues that are not duel related.

But they are duel related. Open world pvp and dueling specifically in open world (as opposed to in the mists) go always hand in hand with griefers. Even if not everyone that wants them is a griefer, almost every griefer has them on top of their “do want” lists. Games with those options attract them.
Yes, those options do not turn people into griefers (usually), nor do they cause griefing, but they increase the chance that griefers will decide to grief in this game, and not in some other.

If you want duels, ask for a better accessibility of 1v1 option in PvP. Keep them away from PvE.

Also, i may be just biased here due to a large number of threads i have already seen on this forum, where people asked for open world dueling, only to explain that they really want open world pvp, only to admit that what they really hope for is to surprise attack and kill unprepared people.

duels in an open world, no matter how much you sugarcoat it, is a horrible idea.
it creates problems and makes grieving a certainty, the current PvE is pretty much without any problems or grieving and as long as duels creates them, even if it’s outside the fault of duel lovers, it’s a really bad idea.

the problem here is that there are alternatives, the current one is sPvP, a new one would be an arena within a closed environment like a gladiator arena. (might be nice to watch others fight as audience)
now you might wonder what the problem is, well the problem is that the duel lovers don’t like to compromise even if all but one is possible.
the only think that isn’t possible is the open world part, you can have PvE gear battles with all it’s glory as long as it’s not in the PvE open world.

duels are and will always be a toxic environment, sweat talking your way in to it doesn’t change a thing.
so it’s a really simple choice, ether accept with you get/have or don’t do it.
PvE is already toxic enough with all the gear/prof discrimination, add duels in it and the game will surely if not immediately die a painful death.

You know, I had a beggar bothering me the other day. He kept asking me for gold.

I want ANet to remove gold because it creates a toxic environment.

Also, my dungeon party kicked me because I was not wearing zerkers. ANet should remove dungeons because it creates a toxic environment.

A zerg harassed me because I wasn’t following the commander’s orders in WvW. ANet should remove WvW because it creates a toxic environment.

I will take ‘Dueling is toxic’ seriously when ANet removes these features above.

oh man where to start. I’ll speak generally so i don’t have to reply individually.

I don’t see why open world duels can’t succeed in GW2 when they work fantastically in every MMO on the market. The only thing different about GW2 is that they didn’t have time to implement it, not that they didn’t want to or didn’t think it would work.

What is so different about GW2? There is still plenty of trollery to go around…without duels! Duels wouldn’t be upsetting a pristine, untouched haven of anti-toxicity. We get by with the tools we have now to avoid harassment, so will those suddenly disappear with the implementation of duels?

Then there’s this stereotype of the “duel griefer.” Maybe, just maybe, the majority of people that use duels properly go unnoticed, because they use them properly! Instead you’re focused on the loud minority of trolls and are willing to let those guys dictate what tools are implemented.

Don’t take my dismissal of the hypothetical “12 year old persistent troll” as a lack of understanding of human nature, it’s an acknowledgment of how overblown the frequency of those situations occurring have been stated on the forums. Just because there is potential for abuse doesn’t make it common place. Just because it happened once doesn’t mean it will happen all the time. We have all met that person but not with such a recurring frequency that it drives us away from the game.

I watched this enough in other MMOs that allowed dueling in PvE:

Situation 1
Troll tries to duel X
X declines (insert any reason here)
Troll verbally attacks X in chat
More Trolls join in.

Situation 2
Troll tries to duel X
X has auto-decline active
Troll verbally attacks X in chat
More Trolls join in.

Both situations usually escalates to the point that the trolls try to duel everyone on the map and verbally attack anyone that doesn’t duel them.

No Dueling in PvE, go to the Mists and find a 1v1 or start a dueling only server.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Scrambles.2604:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Hey, not sure if this has been said but…you don’t have to go through two loading screens to do a duel. Let’s say you’re super busy in Queensdale doing really important stuff and don’t have time to go through two loading screens? No problem! Just click the crossed swords at the top of your screen, then select the PvP server list from that menu, and double-click on an empty one.

Bam, you’re there! Your friend can right-click your name from the contact menu and choose “join friend in PvP.”

When you’re done, you will have to go through two loading screens to get back to queensdale, it’s true. But don’t let that discourage you.

I tried to introduce my friend to GW2. He has a new lvl 5 guardian and wanted to test some PvP. So we head to the mysts. Let me tell you, it is frustrating trying to explain to a brand new player that he needs to go here to get weapons, here to get runes, what runes are, what sigils are, etc.

In any other MMO I couldve just dueled his lvl 5 guardian there where he was questing, where he could use the skills he had just learned and was familiar with. This game lacks any introduction to PvP and open world duels would fill that gap.

More good news! PvP builds have been changed so that you no longer have to visit all the different vendors in the Heart of the Mists to set up your PvP build. The top of your screen now has a “PvP build” option visible when you are in a PvP map or the HotM. Just click it open and choose any gear/trait combinations you want from dropdown menus.

Even better, you will automatically be using the same weapon sets you have equipped in PvE. No more totally-foreign build to worry about once you step into the HotM—if your level 5 friend was using a hammer in PvE, he’ll be using a hammer in PvP. Better yet, his stats and traits will be boosted to level 80 so that you don’t kill him in two hits like you would if you dueled his level 5 character.

Although probably your friend would be better off to level a bit more before doing PvP. It doesn’t really matter whether he has to buy runes/sigils/etc from a vendor or not if he has no idea what any of those things are.

Good to know! I’m glad sPvP is more accessible now…I mostly stick with WvW.

IF we could open world duel, i imagine we both would be lvl 5 (or whatever the zone downlevels me to) so i don’t think i’d beat him too bad. He is a guardian, after all

Ravion Hawk.4736:

I watched this enough in other MMOs that allowed dueling in PvE:

Situation 1
Troll tries to duel X
X declines (insert any reason here)
Troll verbally attacks X in chat
More Trolls join in.

Situation 2
Troll tries to duel X
X has auto-decline active
Troll verbally attacks X in chat
More Trolls join in.

Both situations usually escalates to the point that the trolls try to duel everyone on the map and verbally attack anyone that doesn’t duel them.

No Dueling in PvE, go to the Mists and find a 1v1 or start a dueling only server.

What you just described is harassment. This can happen any where and be about anything or nothing. You are just blaming duels for these trolls behavior.

And the situation you described is so vague i have a hard time believing it really happened.

Ravion Hawk.4736:

I watched this enough in other MMOs that allowed dueling in PvE:

Situation 1
Troll tries to duel X
X declines (insert any reason here)
Troll verbally attacks X in chat
More Trolls join in.

Situation 2
Troll tries to duel X
X has auto-decline active
Troll verbally attacks X in chat
More Trolls join in.

Both situations usually escalates to the point that the trolls try to duel everyone on the map and verbally attack anyone that doesn’t duel them.

No Dueling in PvE, go to the Mists and find a 1v1 or start a dueling only server.

I watched this enough in other MMO that allowed gold:

Situation 1
Beggar tries to beg X
X declines (insert any reason here)
Beggar verbally attacks X in chat
More trolls join in.

Situation 2
Beggar tries to beg X
X has trade-notification off.
Beggar verbally attacks X in chat.
More trolls join in.

Both situation usually escalate to the point that the trolls ust begs everyone and verbally attack anyone that won’t give them gold.

No Gold ever. Go farm some Karma.

I like the idea of dueling in tyria. I cannot stand to see every time the same arena and every time my friends and I want to duel a full team is interrupting.

The claim, that this function would be toxic ,can and cannot be true.
I would dislike players, that are dueling each other while we are trying a Tequatel or the Worm, because they not helping. But this is a special case.
When we are talking about features that are toxic to game , I wanted to add, that mega servers are toxic for guilds, guildmissions ,raids and the organisation itself.

But back to topic:
Duels would support the pvp part of game:

When you duel someone in pve and the person loses to you the person starts to think how the person could improve him/herself or the person wants to duel you again.
Some people might blame their pve gear after many lost games and would say :

“Lets go into the mist. I will show you my true might”
But thats not the main point for me.

The amount of pvp arenas is too low. I does not like to duel in this arenas simply because I cannot see them anymore and every time I am dueling one jerk is disturbing.
Thats annoying. And like I sad the costs for such arenas are too high for me , because I cannot afford to spent so much gold for arenas that are too ugly every month .

The pve world outruns completely the pvp arenas in looks.

I’d rather see bar brawls be implemented before dueling. That said… what are the complaints against open-world opt-in PvP? As primarily a roleplayer, I’d love to be able to actually take swords against people who tick me off in-game (And probably get my kitten handed to me as a result… but it’s better than just puffing up and strutting around powerlessly)

And, as a primarily Charr/Norn player, being able to prove myself to others through steel would be an invaluable addition to the game.

Sartharina.3542:

I’d rather see bar brawls be implemented before dueling. That said… what are the complaints against open-world opt-in PvP? As primarily a roleplayer, I’d love to be able to actually take swords against people who tick me off in-game (And probably get my kitten handed to me as a result… but it’s better than just puffing up and strutting around powerlessly)

The principle complaint is that players might be rude to other players.

Scrambles.2604:

Sartharina.3542:

I’d rather see bar brawls be implemented before dueling. That said… what are the complaints against open-world opt-in PvP? As primarily a roleplayer, I’d love to be able to actually take swords against people who tick me off in-game (And probably get my kitten handed to me as a result… but it’s better than just puffing up and strutting around powerlessly)

The principle complaint is that players might be rude to other players.

…As if they can’t be rude to each other right now?