Guild Wars 2

Now you’re bringing up conversation points.
Let’s begin.

The only reason i brought up skill point challenges was to refute the claim made by some people that they didn’t want to be bothered by seeing peoples skills and particle effects going off in the open world.

There have been claims that it is annoying to see skills being used around towns/npcs/busy work locations, yet many skill point challenges are located right there in town. It’s a silly point to make (i admit) against an even sillier argument.

Though I didn’t have you in mind when I made these counterpoints, I’m fine that you brought them up.

Graphics issues dealing with particle effects and such are really a non issue to me, thus I…never cared to bring them up in any discussion about 1v1 dueling.

I mention costume brawls because that is the closest thing we have to open world duels yet there are little to no instances of abuse reported as a result of costume brawl. Yet you could make the exact same claims for potential harassment about costume brawl. The potential most definitely exists, but just because the potential exists doesn’t mean it is a common occurrence.

Yet those claims wouldn’t be possible because when was the last time you got spammed for a costume brawl invite?

Best as I can recollect, that can’t be invited like a guild invite or party invite.
The mechanism for initiating a duel that most champion, the invite, can be abused and potentially will.
" doesn’t mean it is a common occurrence." To some extent yes, however we’ve had plenty of evidence to contradict this.
Go back in the forums, look at when EoTM released. Look at how PvE’ers wailed upon the idea of continuing the Living Story in a PvP area.
Now look at the posts from PvP players who saw this as an opportunity for revenge or free bags.
Heck, just look at these three posts together about farming PvE’ers

You can’t honestly believe that your PvP community will see this as only a chance to have friendly rivalry fights with one another. The dregs of your side will see this as a chance to “stick it” to the PvE’er care bears.
Just go through the WvWvW threads about KTrain and how they despise that folks aren’t playing it “right” and how they revel in killing off players like that.

Now give them a chance to spam fight invites, it is Wintersday practically for trolls.

Of course, the natural defense is to decline. Why put yet another potential “no” button for a community of gamers that already have guild and party invites they either accept or decline?
Also yes it is only a simple click, when you aren’t otherwise engaged in events or mob fights. When you are spammed in the middle of a fight, it is irritating.
Surely we the players can utilize some neat feature that prevents such a thing from occurring? Well when ANet decides to put one in, after all this is the same company who took nearly over a year to get a freaking “last online” for guild management.

They have plenty of stuff to incorporate before they even think of making dueling a feature, let alone putting it in open world.

Finally, if you’re going to quote Colin, why don’t you use a quote from him about actual open world duels (linked on the firstt page) instead of extrapolating from an unrelated topic.

Because I’m using quotes to reinforce my original post’s intention: The game is built the way it is because otherwise these game modes would have been mushed together on Day one.

Fact is both communities squabble at each other like children who think the parents love the other more.

I would consider myself pretty bias towards implementing relatively unrestricted open world duels, but any suggestion to stick them only in WvW is a terrible idea. If you are in WvW you should be helping your server, not utilizing the only available location to duel. We already have the issue with WvW being the only real place for GvG. Add in duels and there would be very little actual WvWing going on in WvW.

How do you feel about that Jump Puzzle which has its own spot in WvWvW?
They could do something like that. Have a dueling paradise styled like the Queen’s Jubilee arenas, the Bane, or maybe a creation completely different aesthetically.

Whenever I recommended WvWvW, it wasn’t just “plunk it down there” or expect you to duel in Stonemist. I’ve always liked the idea that there’s a separate place in there for dueling which doesn’t hurt your server. After all isn’t the Mists a place of eternal battles, bloodshed, and glory?

JustTrogdor.7892:

Scrambles.2604:

OMG guys i also got a rude PM!

You can’t even control yourself from trolling in a thread about dueling. Way to speak for your cause. Good job.

Edit: Scrambles posted a fake PM screen shot from Colin that used derogatory words.. His post was deleted by mods. Just mentioning this so my post makes sense.

Oh wow, that’s a level of sad I never thought anyone would go.

Atlas.9704:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Scrambles.2604:

OMG guys i also got a rude PM!

You can’t even control yourself from trolling in a thread about dueling. Way to speak for your cause. Good job.

Edit: Scrambles posted a fake PM screen shot from Colin that used derogatory words.. His post was deleted by mods. Just mentioning this so my post makes sense.

Oh wow, that’s a level of sad I never thought anyone would go.

Well I don’t know if he deleted it or the mods did. The fact that my quote didn’t get nuked like they usually do with deleted posts from mods I don’t know. I’m sure a few others here saw it before it got deleted.

NewTrain.7549:

This is a non-sequitur. I made no mention of intention (or not) to include after launch. We’re discussing basic features. When something is claimed as a “basic feature” it means something included with the product at the time of initial purchase for no extra cost. It was very clear dueling was not a basic feature of GW2.

The individual you quoted stated that he believed that dueling should be free. He made no claim of, “false advertising,” or, “basic feature.” I pointed out that other playable content, as well as QOL features added post launch, were implemented without additional cost for players as precedent for adding dueling as a free option.

Personally I think the idea of a small gem store cost for an open world duel flag option would be reasonable. A dueling option would have some development costs that this option could help offset, which in turn could offset non-duelist complaints about resources spent on this endeavor. This would also make accepting duels impossible for those who have not purchased the option reducing the incentive for someone inclined to harass others in an effort to get a duel to be abusive in that manner. And who knows, perhaps some additional cost for the option would make someone (maybe not all potential trolls, but some) think before acting up ?

The vocal GW2 community imo generally is the community of “no”, worse so than any other community I have ran into.

Dueling in the open world= No, my feelings will be hurt.
Tequatl & Wurm = No, accessibility is not fair.
Mounts= No, we have Waypoints and it clutters my screen.
Raids= No, go back to WoW
GvG= No, you have WvW
Race change= No, your personal story means something (lol)
Mega servers= No, I rather just guest to a server that gets things done for me.
Xpacs= No, we have this great living story.
Ascended= No, no, no, no

Easy to tell for some if it isn’t GW1 or standing around playing dress up w/Wardrobe, plushy backs, mini’s, furry animal hats, or beta release content only…..the answer is NO, for the sake of argument I suppose.

It will be very interesting over the next year to see what kind of influence the release in the east will have on this game.

I’m sure Anet will do what they think will be beneficial retaining players, features like above mentioned are a good start including the option to duel in the open world.

Atlas.9704:

runeblade.7514:

The PvE world is not duel free right now.

There are multiple skillpoints where you duel a npc.

“You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
-Inigo Montoya

Within the context of these threads its always pointed towards other players.
Saying stuff like skillpoints or NPCs is an example of dueling is like saying costume brawl is a fine example of PvP in the Open World.

It isn’t because it is an activity which doesn’t take your stats into consideration.

Back to the original point, dueling with a skillpoint or NPC is simply beating down a scripted AI.
It doesn’t get better, it doesn’t complain that it had lag, it doesn’t jump up and down whispering derogatory comments if it loses or wins, and it doesn’t refit itself for a rematch.

Therefore these PvE duels you use as an example aren’t even examples to help your case.

1. PvE duels show that dueling can work in towns and not out of place. There are talks about PvE is cooperation when we have always been fighting each other in a friendly match in Tyria all this time. It is lore-friendly.

2. Your comment on player duel vs. npc duel is funny. Destiny’s Edge doesn’t get better, they don’t complain that they had lag, it doesn’t jump up and down whispering derogatory comments if they fail a run, and doesn’t refit themselves for another run. But players do that. That means dungeon in GW2 should be removed because of toxic environment. I got tons of hate comments for running ranger in dungeons.

Ashen.2907:

NewTrain.7549:

This is a non-sequitur. I made no mention of intention (or not) to include after launch. We’re discussing basic features. When something is claimed as a “basic feature” it means something included with the product at the time of initial purchase for no extra cost. It was very clear dueling was not a basic feature of GW2.

The individual you quoted stated that he believed that dueling should be free. He made no claim of, “false advertising,” or, “basic feature.” I pointed out that other playable content, as well as QOL features added post launch, were implemented without additional cost for players as precedent for adding dueling as a free option.

I understand what you’re saying, but you’re trying to argue that it’s logical to purchase a product based on what it could potentially become and not what it actually is. To me, that’s a completely illogical position. Why would any purchase anything when there’s only a possibility that it might satisfy your demand ESPECIALLY when there are competing products that do satisfy your demand.

So that beings us to the discussion of basic features. Dueling was not a basic feature at launch. There was no promise of dueling ever being added. The poster argues it “should have” been in the game. On what premise? That the competition has it? If it was such an important feature why not play the competition? Fact is, it was not in the game at launch and refusing to pay extra for it as an added feature after launch proves it’s of little importance to the poster.

Again, I understand your point but you’re defending an completely illogical assertion.

Atlas.9704:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Scrambles.2604:

OMG guys i also got a rude PM!

You can’t even control yourself from trolling in a thread about dueling. Way to speak for your cause. Good job.

Edit: Scrambles posted a fake PM screen shot from Colin that used derogatory words.. His post was deleted by mods. Just mentioning this so my post makes sense.

Oh wow, that’s a level of sad I never thought anyone would go.

I have it on good authority that scrambles posted that pic in an attempt to be funny. I don’t think he expected anyone to really believe Colin would send him a derogatory PM.

I thought it was funny :P

Wetpaw.3487:

The vocal GW2 community imo generally is the community of “no”, worse so than any other community I have ran into.

Dueling in the open world= No, my feelings will be hurt.
Tequatl & Wurm = No, accessibility is not fair.
Mounts= No, we have Waypoints and it clutters my screen.
Raids= No, go back to WoW
GvG= No, you have WvW
Race change= No, your personal story means something (lol)
Mega servers= No, I rather just guest to a server that gets things done for me.
Xpacs= No, we have this great living story.
Ascended= No, no, no, no

Easy to tell for some if it isn’t GW1 or standing around playing dress up w/Wardrobe, plushy backs, mini’s, furry animal hats, or beta release content only…..the answer is NO, for the sake of argument I suppose.

It will be very interesting over the next year to see what kind of influence the release in the east will have on this game.

I’m sure Anet will do what they think will be beneficial retaining players, features like above mentioned are a good start including the option to duel in the open world.

Yep, you’ve hit the nail on the head with that. Everyone just wants easy zerging, spam 1 content. Dueling, raids, GvG etc would be amazing…

GooGiM.6042:

Atlas.9704:

JustTrogdor.7892:

Scrambles.2604:

OMG guys i also got a rude PM!

You can’t even control yourself from trolling in a thread about dueling. Way to speak for your cause. Good job.

Edit: Scrambles posted a fake PM screen shot from Colin that used derogatory words.. His post was deleted by mods. Just mentioning this so my post makes sense.

Oh wow, that’s a level of sad I never thought anyone would go.

I have it on good authority that scrambles posted that pic in an attempt to be funny. I don’t think he expected anyone to really believe Colin would send him a derogatory PM.

I thought it was funny :P

Possibly Colin read it and thought it wasn’t funny to be represented as unprofessional and rude? Or just the moderators opinion also.

NewTrain.7549:

I understand what you’re saying, but you’re trying to argue that it’s logical to purchase a product based on what it could potentially become and not what it actually is.

First, I am making no such argument. People make illogical purchases all of the time. Its commonplace. In my experience people make purchase decision illogically more often than they do logically. Look at our food choices, soda, cigarettes, alcohol, etc.

Second, the MMO genre is, to some degree, based on what the game may become rather than what it is. They launch with bugs and we are supposed to expect fixes. They launch with less content than their predecessors and we expect them to grow. They launch without features that we expect to be added in time. I would argue that it is illogical, or just plain poor consumerism to buy an MMO without the expectation that it will change, grow, etc. Aren’t there entire sections of the TOS/licensing agreement included for just that reason ?

If we were buying MMOs based solely on what they are rather than what they are and what they might become we would be fools to buy them at all in my opinion.

NewTrain.7549:

To me, that’s a completely illogical position. Why would any purchase anything when there’s only a possibility that it might satisfy your demand ESPECIALLY when there are competing products that do satisfy your demand.

Probably because the player’s desire encompasses more than just dueling. Perhaps those other games do not meet the player’s desires in the other ten or twenty ways he measures his satisfaction with an MMO of choice. I would like some additional (long) hairstyles for male humans. I have requested such since before launch. I will continue to make the request (or support others making the same request). By your logic I should not have bought GW2, which has many aesthetic and game play elements that I very much appreciate, because one particular hairstyle option is not available. That seems very illogical to me.

NewTrain.7549:

refusing to pay extra for it as an added feature after launch proves it’s of little importance to the poster

It proves nothing of the sort. Your statement does imply that you believe that paying for something is the only way to demonstrate its importance to oneself. I can assure you that not everyone shares that view (right or wrong).

ThatChackGuy.6795:

Wetpaw.3487:

The vocal GW2 community imo generally is the community of “no”, worse so than any other community I have ran into.

Dueling in the open world= No, my feelings will be hurt.
Tequatl & Wurm = No, accessibility is not fair.
Mounts= No, we have Waypoints and it clutters my screen.
Raids= No, go back to WoW
GvG= No, you have WvW
Race change= No, your personal story means something (lol)
Mega servers= No, I rather just guest to a server that gets things done for me.
Xpacs= No, we have this great living story.
Ascended= No, no, no, no

Easy to tell for some if it isn’t GW1 or standing around playing dress up w/Wardrobe, plushy backs, mini’s, furry animal hats, or beta release content only…..the answer is NO, for the sake of argument I suppose.

It will be very interesting over the next year to see what kind of influence the release in the east will have on this game.

I’m sure Anet will do what they think will be beneficial retaining players, features like above mentioned are a good start including the option to duel in the open world.

Yep, you’ve hit the nail on the head with that. Everyone just wants easy zerging, spam 1 content. Dueling, raids, GvG etc would be amazing…

Very funny, great timing to back what I have noted.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Gw2-need-more-races-and-proffesions

New Professions/race= No, GW2 has enough diversity, not ready for new races/professions yet, to hard to balance.

How does this relate to the topic of dueling, the futility of suggestions in this community. I think emailing Anet will get better results.

The anti content and progression of this game community on bringing in more players w/a larger variety of options, game modes, & content is quite disconcerting.

I have always went w/the belief add what you can, grab as many players as you can, just because I don’t like it or have the skill for it does not mean I shouldn’t accept it. More players, more revenue, better future of the game.

The more I think about it, all they really need to do is make costume brawls more accessible, and allow people to go into costume “As themselves”, with their weapons converted to abilities that work within a costume brawl instead of as a real PvE or PvP effect.

Essentially, a way to let players fight each other for fun, but ensure that the fights are meaningless and prove nothing. And, with Costume Brawl mechanics, it prevents harassment because all the person can do is opt to start a costume brawl, and wait for others to join in, instead of targeting people for brawls.

Wetpaw.3487:

The vocal GW2 community imo generally is the community of “no”, worse so than any other community I have ran into.

Dueling in the open world= No, my feelings will be hurt.
Tequatl & Wurm = No, accessibility is not fair.
Mounts= No, we have Waypoints and it clutters my screen.
Raids= No, go back to WoW
GvG= No, you have WvW
Race change= No, your personal story means something (lol)
Mega servers= No, I rather just guest to a server that gets things done for me.
Xpacs= No, we have this great living story.
Ascended= No, no, no, no

Funny thing. Except for xpacs (where only white knights argue agains them, and even they don’t do it very strongly, so i guess you tried to sneak that in to strengthen your ‘argument"), and GvG (where it’s mostly devs that are against), those are points i considered when i have decided to buy this game. I specifically wanted a good game that has no raids, gear progression, mounts, and open world pvp/duels.
Interesting also, that you have picked this game when it advertised to not have those things. Perhaps they were not important to you?

Ashen.2907:

NewTrain.7549:

I understand what you’re saying, but you’re trying to argue that it’s logical to purchase a product based on what it could potentially become and not what it actually is.

First, I am making no such argument. People make illogical purchases all of the time. Its commonplace. In my experience people make purchase decision illogically more often than they do logically. Look at our food choices, soda, cigarettes, alcohol, etc.

Second, the MMO genre is, to some degree, based on what the game may become rather than what it is. They launch with bugs and we are supposed to expect fixes. They launch with less content than their predecessors and we expect them to grow. They launch without features that we expect to be added in time. I would argue that it is illogical, or just plain poor consumerism to buy an MMO without the expectation that it will change, grow, etc. Aren’t there entire sections of the TOS/licensing agreement included for just that reason ?

If we were buying MMOs based solely on what they are rather than what they are and what they might become we would be fools to buy them at all in my opinion.

NewTrain.7549:

To me, that’s a completely illogical position. Why would any purchase anything when there’s only a possibility that it might satisfy your demand ESPECIALLY when there are competing products that do satisfy your demand.

Probably because the player’s desire encompasses more than just dueling. Perhaps those other games do not meet the player’s desires in the other ten or twenty ways he measures his satisfaction with an MMO of choice. I would like some additional (long) hairstyles for male humans. I have requested such since before launch. I will continue to make the request (or support others making the same request). By your logic I should not have bought GW2, which has many aesthetic and game play elements that I very much appreciate, because one particular hairstyle option is not available. That seems very illogical to me.

NewTrain.7549:

refusing to pay extra for it as an added feature after launch proves it’s of little importance to the poster

It proves nothing of the sort. Your statement does imply that you believe that paying for something is the only way to demonstrate its importance to oneself. I can assure you that not everyone shares that view (right or wrong).

You self-contradict in your first two paragraphs. You state you are not arguing in support of purchasing a product for what it could potentially become and then you go ahead and justify why it’s logical to purchase an MMO for what it could potentially become. On your second point, it is not logical to purchase an MMO because it someday might contain a feature you find important, especially when competing products do contain said feature. If the presence or lack of that feature is not a deciding factor in your purchase, it follows that it’s not that important.

You next section is another non-sequitur. Clearly long hairstyles are not that important to you as it failed to make or break your purchase. Would you buy a car without brakes? No. Why? Brakes are an important feature. Would you buy a car that in a color you didn’t particularly like? Perhaps, if everything else met your standards. Why? Because color isn’t nearly as important as brakes are.

It follows that if a feature is important enough to your enjoyment of a product you will either: A) purchase a product with contains that feature as a basic one or pay an additional fee to add it to an already owned product. This is not opinion, this is fact. It’s one of the basic tenants of economics. It’s called demand.

NewTrain.7549:

You self-contradict in your first two paragraphs.

My apologies. My post should have said, “I was making no such argument,” rather than, “I am making no such argument,” as I made no such argument in the post where you claimed I did. I did not entertain the notion until after you made the claim.

NewTrain.7549:

On your second point, it is not logical to purchase an MMO because it someday might contain a feature you find important, especially when competing products do contain said feature. If the presence or lack of that feature is not a deciding factor in your purchase, it follows that it’s not that important.

I disagree. If GW2 has 9 out of the ten features that I find important to my enjoyment of an MMO but other games that do include the one missing from GW2 have only 8 of those ten features it is completely logical to choose GW2 over the other options, perhaps with the hop of encouraging the developer to add the tenth.

NewTrain.7549:

You next section is another non-sequitur. Clearly long hairstyles are not that important to you as it failed to make or break your purchase.

I provided an example of how something that is important to me in the game was not sufficient to override other elements, multiple such, without changing the fact that it is important. Keep in mind that there is a rather large difference between your previous assertions of, “not important,” and the current assertions of, “not as important,” or, “not that important.”

NewTrain.7549:

Would you buy a car without brakes? No. Why? Brakes are an important feature. Would you buy a car that in a color you didn’t particularly like? Perhaps, if everything else met your standards. Why? Because color isn’t nearly as important as brakes are.

I am not sure of the applicability of this example. It is illegal (at least in my state) to sell a car without brakes. I am not sure that comparing illegal activity to car color is particularly valid. Still, of course brakes are more important than color, doesn’t mean that color is unimportant. Really the entire discussion is altered by the change from your previous stance of, “not important,” to one of, “not as important as X.” I do not disagree at all that multiple elements, each of importance to the consumer, might even so be of varying degree of importance. Again, for me, choosing to buy a game that has 9/10 of the elements I desire does not mean that the tenth element is not important, merely that no one element overrides all of the others.

NewTrain.7549:

It follows that if a feature is important enough to your enjoyment of a product you will either: A) purchase a product with contains that feature as a basic one or pay an additional fee to add it to an already owned product. This is not opinion, this is fact.

No, it is an opinion. People settle all of the time. They then complain because they are not satisfied with the product. Neither you, nor I, get to decide what another person finds important.

NewTrain.7549:

It’s one of the basic tenants of economics. It’s called demand.

Not really. People demand things that are not important to them all of the time. Demand means that people are willing to buy something, not that they consider it important.

what about this, have a flag system that works shard-wise.
when you join PvE you are in the default shard, when you flag your self for duels you are transported in a PvP centric shard.
it doesn’t transport you in a completely different map, just a shard of the same map that contains like minded players.

that way anyone who can’t stand PvP in any sense or shape doesn’t have to deal with them and any player who doesn’t mind PvP can play among their own crown, a win-win in every sense.
they can always make it so that even among the PvP crowd you can decline duels and put your self on non-active so when you just want to do an event duel challenges don’t bother you.

sorudo.9054:

what about this, have a flag system that works shard-wise.
when you join PvE you are in the default shard, when you flag your self for duels you are transported in a PvP centric shard.
it doesn’t transport you in a completely different map, just a shard of the same map that contains like minded players.

that way anyone who can’t stand PvP in any sense or shape doesn’t have to deal with them and any player who doesn’t mind PvP can play among their own crown, a win-win in every sense.
they can always make it so that even among the PvP crowd you can decline duels and put your self on non-active so when you just want to do an event duel challenges don’t bother you.

The problem is a fair number of those who want open world dueling want non-participants to be able to watch. And even those who would not wish to fight other players might enjoy watching other players fight each other.

I could see role plays springing up around a fighter’s guild tournament. I could see Guilds using it as an activity or a way to compare two builds.

Not to mention the immature ones who want it simply to grief others want access to the non-duelers so they can harass them. Not saying any here are in this sub-group, but you can’t deny that they exist and would likely be vocal if ANet asked for shard or no shard for open world dueling.

What a GREAT WAY to send in game hate right through the roof.

I think that must be what they were going for with their April 15th Social improvements.

Ya think?

Why do I keep following this thread? It’s all the same arguments over and over, both pro and anti dueling in PvE. It’s almost as this topic hasn’t been discussed to death 15,000 times already.

Seera.5916:

sorudo.9054:

what about this, have a flag system that works shard-wise.
when you join PvE you are in the default shard, when you flag your self for duels you are transported in a PvP centric shard.
it doesn’t transport you in a completely different map, just a shard of the same map that contains like minded players.

that way anyone who can’t stand PvP in any sense or shape doesn’t have to deal with them and any player who doesn’t mind PvP can play among their own crown, a win-win in every sense.
they can always make it so that even among the PvP crowd you can decline duels and put your self on non-active so when you just want to do an event duel challenges don’t bother you.

The problem is a fair number of those who want open world dueling want non-participants to be able to watch. And even those who would not wish to fight other players might enjoy watching other players fight each other.

I could see role plays springing up around a fighter’s guild tournament. I could see Guilds using it as an activity or a way to compare two builds.

Not to mention the immature ones who want it simply to grief others want access to the non-duelers so they can harass them. Not saying any here are in this sub-group, but you can’t deny that they exist and would likely be vocal if ANet asked for shard or no shard for open world dueling.

non-duelers don’t have to deal with them, you can’t duel at all in a non-duel shard.

pdavis.8031:

Why do I keep following this thread? It’s all the same arguments over and over, both pro and anti dueling in PvE. It’s almost as this topic hasn’t been discussed to death 15,000 times already.

I know, right? I haven’t heard one valid argument from the anti dueling people. It’s all about hurt feelings and believing that they have the right to dictate what other players do around them.

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

This. Neither side has valid arguments.
It just comes down to “we want it!” vs “We don’t want it!”

And as I’ve seen it stated before: If there is one for vote, any against vote will negate it. Thats basically whats going on.

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

There has been a valid argument, the valid argument is players like to see this feature implemented and retaining players is what this business is about.

The invalid argument comes from players in this community that constantly say NO to content that retains and brings in new players for the benefit of the game as a whole.

For example I find spvp and the term esport to be garbage in mmo’s, so I don’t take part in this gamemode. But I do understand why it’s here. Even if I don’t like this gamemode and somewhat a waste of resources I understand why almost every mmo does this as it brings this particular player base into the game and helps feed the longevity of the game.

I also find most of these mini games like guild missions and SAB to be utter crap, but once again the resources used by Anet to fulfill these game modes is justified for the many players that love this content, and once again fulfilling the longevity of this game.

Costume brawl, I find extremely annoying especially due to the fact it’s allowed in major hubs w/the constant blam! Bang! Screaches! and other sound effects, but…other seem to enjoy it plenty.

Plushys, fur hats, sunglasses, beanies, all don’t bring anything to the immersion of the game as a whole.

The major complaint from many players that have left this game (I came w/a community of around 50, and is the only one still playing) are the tried and true mmo concepts that help build a successful game & community, not the niche crowd of no “we like the beta version best”.

We all know why the megaservers were brought into play, to rehash, servers and zones were ghost towns except for the top 3 and a few others during peak times, this was not due to success. Success for the community should not be dictated by gem store profits either.

I know quite a few gaming communities, guilds, and players that would give this game a shot again or for the first time if on top of the direction Anet has been on now added dueling, Raids for guild missions, mounts, races, race change, and xpacs.

Save the NO’s for p2w features, not content in a game that at this point in time has great potential yet reached.

After reading both sides I think the gem store flag that you have to buy and wear in order to duel has the most promise. Those who don’t own a flag and/or don’t have the flag engaged, can’t duel. If the person who has the item is visibly flagged then duelers have no incentive to request duels from people without the flag as it’s not even possible.

pdavis.8031:

And as I’ve seen it stated before: If there is one for vote, any against vote will negate it. Thats basically whats going on.

See that is the thing. It isn’t like all these numerous dueling threads were started by Anet asking for votes to decide. However, people seem to treat them as such and to some degree these threads sort of turn into a forum version of dueling. LOL

Astral Projections.7320:

After reading both sides I think the gem store flag that you have to buy and wear in order to duel has the most promise. Those who don’t own a flag and/or don’t have the flag engaged, can’t duel. If the person who has the item is visibly flagged then duelers have no incentive to request duels from people without the flag as it’s not even possible.

I also agree if not a direct addition to the game of a dueling option for all, this idea would work great.

Possibly clicking the said item when self is targeted an icon would show up similar to the Representation Buttons of Cutthroat Politics Living story chapter.

here’s the original post

NewTrain.7549:
Here, you all want dueling so bad, I’ve got your solution.
Gem Store Item – 800 gems – Dueling Flag: Use issues a challenge to selected other player in possession of a dueling flag. If used on a player without a dueling flag, there is no effect and your dueling flag goes on a 15 sec cooldown. May not be used in instances, sPvP, or WvW.

I would add unlimited uses of course, and possible like I mentioned above similar to the Representation Buttons of Cutthroat Politics as notification as someone w/said item and open to duels.

For those that were not playing at the time it would look like this, but instead of a face possibly a picture of a flag.

runeblade.7514:

The PvE world is not duel free right now.

There are multiple skillpoints where you duel a npc.

That is just an idiotic statement.

By your logic you ARE dueling every time you fight a human foe, so your problem is solved! Thanks for stopping by!

Wetpaw.3487:

There has been a valid argument, the valid argument is players like to see this feature implemented and retaining players is what this business is about.

The invalid argument comes from players in this community that constantly say NO to content that retains and brings in new players for the benefit of the game as a whole.

For example I find spvp and the term esport to be garbage in mmo’s, so I don’t take part in this gamemode. But I do understand why it’s here. Even if I don’t like this gamemode and somewhat a waste of resources I understand why almost every mmo does this as it brings this particular player base into the game and helps feed the longevity of the game.

I also find most of these mini games like guild missions and SAB to be utter crap, but once again the resources used by Anet to fulfill these game modes is justified for the many players that love this content, and once again fulfilling the longevity of this game.

Costume brawl, I find extremely annoying especially due to the fact it’s allowed in major hubs w/the constant blam! Bang! Screaches! and other sound effects, but…other seem to enjoy it plenty.

Plushys, fur hats, sunglasses, beanies, all don’t bring anything to the immersion of the game as a whole.

The major complaint from many players that have left this game (I came w/a community of around 50, and is the only one still playing) are the tried and true mmo concepts that help build a successful game & community, not the niche crowd of no “we like the beta version best”.

We all know why the megaservers were brought into play, to rehash, servers and zones were ghost towns except for the top 3 and a few others during peak times, this was not due to success. Success for the community should not be dictated by gem store profits either.

I know quite a few gaming communities, guilds, and players that would give this game a shot again or for the first time if on top of the direction Anet has been on now added dueling, Raids for guild missions, mounts, races, and xpacs.

Save the NO’s for p2w features, not content in a game that at this point in time has great potential yet reached.

Having followed this thread since its begginings, I don’t see the arguments of dueling being connected to player retention and growth. Most of the arugments against have been of the nature of dueling being a major source or trolling and griefing that many players have experienced in other MMOs, citing RL examples. And the counter arguments, have been of the nature of there are plenty of other ways to grief/troll, and that the anti duelers are against it because they are selfish/noobs/anti fun.

As far as the player retention/growth discussion. I’ve seen several people who claim they will quit if PvE dueling is ever introduced. Some don’t care, and others will continue to play, but will be very liberal with the reporting button. If this discussion was truly about adding in PvE dueling as a player retention and growth mechanism, then it failed. People wouldn’t be threatening to quit simply because of the toxic atmosphere it can generate with the addition of such things. I’ve yet to see any evidence that the addition of PvE dueling (which is the main topic point, not the addition of other content) would result in greater player retention and player growth.

While PvE dueling may be a entertaining feature in many MMOs, it is important to note that this is NOT other MMOs. GW2 and Arena Net decided to take a completely different route in this game, breaking away from the Meta of MMOs and doing something different. Which is why features like dueling, player trading, raids, mounts, etc. were left out at the very beginning. It’s not what they wanted to do.

And the megserver roll out, while it is debatable as to the motivation behind it, only serves to make the game more social, which is one of their goals from the very beginning. The individual servers in PvE weren’t fulfilling that vision. So to use that as a measure of the success of GW2, really doesn’t work too well. Also the gem store sales. While they are promoting the gem store, and bringing in SOME income from it, (we don’t know how much, and how much is converted from gold) there is NOTHING in the gem store that is a must have in order to play ANY content. It’s mainly cosmetic and convience items. (yes there are some boosters and what not, but those can be found in game through food items, banners, etc.) So how well, or not well, the gem store may be doing, has no reflection on the success of the game at all.

I don’t see many new players coming to this game solely on the feature of PvE dueling. I also don’t see many players leaving because it doesn’t have it. We all spent the $60 getting the game (unless you picked it up on sale), knowing what it was we were getting into. In the almost 2 years it’s been out, we’ve definetly got our moneys worth and then some. While we keep looking at whats wrong with game, and what needs to be added to make it “better”, don’t forget about all the amazing things we’ve already seen and done so far. If you haven’t full explored the world (I’m not talking about 100% map completion) you are missing out on so much.

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.

How is that not a valid argument?

pdavis.8031:

Why do I keep following this thread? It’s all the same arguments over and over, both pro and anti dueling in PvE. It’s almost as this topic hasn’t been discussed to death 15,000 times already.

Feels like we mostly don’t discuss the arguments – At the very least not in a structured manner.

runeblade.7514:

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.

How is that not a valid argument?

He’s exaggerating the responses that those who refuse to have a discussion on the matter are making . Regardless of what side of the issue they take. At least that’s my take on his post.

runeblade.7514:

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.

How is that not a valid argument?

“Because” is not a valid argument. Period. At least on the Anti side, they can point to RL examples of griefing/trolling/harassment. The Pro side just points out they can block/report or ingore it. Using dueling as training for PvP is a weak argument, as the two systems are completly different. One might learn the basics of dodging and when to use skills, etc. but those can be picked up from any mob or boss fight. Gear/traits/stats play a major role in PvP, as well as PvE. If you want to learn to PvP, there is PvP dummies, private “rooms” etc to do that with. Which would be a much better medium for doing that anyway. I learned PvP through a couple of my guildies in a private PvP match.

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

not true, i just gave a solution for both parties without even one single bashing, first read some of the actual argument before making lame statements.

Seera.5916:

runeblade.7514:

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.

How is that not a valid argument?

He’s exaggerating the responses that those who refuse to have a discussion on the matter are making . Regardless of what side of the issue they take. At least that’s my take on his post.

Precisely You got it.

pdavis.8031:

runeblade.7514:

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.

How is that not a valid argument?

“Because” is not a valid argument. Period. At least on the Anti side, they can point to RL examples of griefing/trolling/harassment. The Pro side just points out they can block/report or ingore it. Using dueling as training for PvP is a weak argument, as the two systems are completly different. One might learn the basics of dodging and when to use skills, etc. but those can be picked up from any mob or boss fight. Gear/traits/stats play a major role in PvP, as well as PvE. If you want to learn to PvP, there is PvP dummies, private “rooms” etc to do that with. Which would be a much better medium for doing that anyway. I learned PvP through a couple of my guildies in a private PvP match.

What is not a valid argument? Why is it not a valid argument. No where in my post has “because.”

sorudo.9054:

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

not true, i just gave a solution for both parties without even one single bashing, first read some of the actual argument before making lame statements.

The flag and shard idea? I posted similar ideas back on page 3, and page 4. The first few pages of this thread are just a fight between 2 people on the topic. With all the hate involoved. Like I’ve said before, I’ve been following this thread since the beginning.

Brother Grimm.5176:

runeblade.7514:

The PvE world is not duel free right now.

There are multiple skillpoints where you duel a npc.

That is just an idiotic statement.

By your logic you ARE dueling every time you fight a human foe, so your problem is solved! Thanks for stopping by!

Dueling requires consent from both sides. The NPC challenges the player and the player click the accept to fight.

A human foe wants to kill you, but you just want to get to a skillpoint. So the human foe kills you. That is not a duel, that is ganking.

That is the difference between my example and your example.

runeblade.7514:

pdavis.8031:

runeblade.7514:

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.

How is that not a valid argument?

“Because” is not a valid argument. Period. At least on the Anti side, they can point to RL examples of griefing/trolling/harassment. The Pro side just points out they can block/report or ingore it. Using dueling as training for PvP is a weak argument, as the two systems are completly different. One might learn the basics of dodging and when to use skills, etc. but those can be picked up from any mob or boss fight. Gear/traits/stats play a major role in PvP, as well as PvE. If you want to learn to PvP, there is PvP dummies, private “rooms” etc to do that with. Which would be a much better medium for doing that anyway. I learned PvP through a couple of my guildies in a private PvP match.

What is not a valid argument? Why is it not a valid argument. No where in my post has “because.”

“Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.” is not an argument. It’s a statement. An argument would have reasons X, Y and Z to include dueling and have A,B, and C positive impact on the game. And not, “I like duels, and think they should be included, and not interrupted”

There is no open world pve dueling in this game and until arenanet implements it there is no such thing. Quit whining over pve dueling alrdy >.>

pdavis.8031:

runeblade.7514:

pdavis.8031:

runeblade.7514:

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.

How is that not a valid argument?

“Because” is not a valid argument. Period. At least on the Anti side, they can point to RL examples of griefing/trolling/harassment. The Pro side just points out they can block/report or ingore it. Using dueling as training for PvP is a weak argument, as the two systems are completly different. One might learn the basics of dodging and when to use skills, etc. but those can be picked up from any mob or boss fight. Gear/traits/stats play a major role in PvP, as well as PvE. If you want to learn to PvP, there is PvP dummies, private “rooms” etc to do that with. Which would be a much better medium for doing that anyway. I learned PvP through a couple of my guildies in a private PvP match.

What is not a valid argument? Why is it not a valid argument. No where in my post has “because.”

“Pro-duelers want it to have uninterruptable duels.” is not an argument. It’s a statement. An argument would have reasons X, Y and Z to include dueling and have A,B, and C positive impact on the game. And not, “I like duels, and think they should be included, and not interrupted”

Pro-duelers want duels to have uninterruptable duels.

Done.

pdavis.8031:

sorudo.9054:

pdavis.8031:

Hehe I haven’t seen a valid argument from either side. The pros just cry “I want it!”, “other MMOS have it”, “If you don’t like it gtfo!!” and the anti group is “NO!! It’ll hurt immersion and cause griefers!” “It’s dumb!!”,“If you don’t like it gtfo!”

Sadly, this thread is turning into a hater fest. Most of what I’ve seen is not discussion, but both parties bashing and abusing each other.

not true, i just gave a solution for both parties without even one single bashing, first read some of the actual argument before making lame statements.

The flag and shard idea? I posted similar ideas back on page 3, and page 4. The first few pages of this thread are just a fight between 2 people on the topic. With all the hate involoved. Like I’ve said before, I’ve been following this thread since the beginning.

and did you read the WHOLE suggestion?
because you clearly didn’t or simply never understood the whole idea, i have bin following duel threads from the moments they were made and i have never ever seen anyone suggesting anything close to what i just suggested.
there is a flagging suggestion similar to what DCUO which just makes things worse, there is the server suggestion which might actually force innocent bystanders to move away, there is even the auto decline option that asks for trolling and harassments.

what i suggest solves all of the problems both sides have, it’s eliminates all trolling and harassments, keeps both sides from having conflicts and allows both sides to enjoy the game the way they love to play the game.

don’t like duels?
simply hop in PvE as a normal player and you will not even see any duel happening.
love to challenge your friends for a friendly duel?
flag your self as a dueler and you’re transported in a duel-friendly shard.
like duels but don’t like to constantly duel your self?
just flag your self as a non-active dueler and invites are blocked till you put your self active again.

there is really no part in this suggestion that bashes anyone nor does it favor one side more then the other, it’s balanced within the wishes of both sides.
what someone else bashes others has nothing to do with the suggestion, the suggestion is sound, it’s the players who just bash and argue for the sake of arguing.

Wetpaw.3487:

There has been a valid argument, the valid argument is players like to see this feature implemented and retaining players is what this business is about.

Argument “players don’t want this feature to be implemented” is equally valid, you know. And while i don’t see anyone joining this game just because duels were added (because it still won’t be the kind of game that people for whom duels are a major point would choose), it may cause some people to quit (because opposite is true, lack of duels was a major point for lot of people when they chose GW2 over other options).

Wetpaw.3487:

The major complaint from many players that have left this game (I came w/a community of around 50, and is the only one still playing) are the tried and true mmo concepts that help build a successful game & community

Funny thing, that a lot of those “tried and true” concepts caused many players to quit games that had them and come to GW2 that didn’t have them. Perhaps those concepts were not so core to the MMORPG idea and to fun as you might think.

I have followed, and yes, commented in this thread a few times, but I can firmly say that if dueling is implemented I (as will others I’m sure) will play something else to avoid the inevitable harassment I have seen in many games with this feature.

However I have not heard any pro dueler claim that they will quit if it is not implemented.

So IMO it is in ANet’s best interest to decide to keep it FAR away from the open world and instead make it an opt in area(s) if ever implemented.

edit: clarity

@Sorudo

I did read the whole suggestion. I agree there is no bashing in your suggestion, and is balanced. That’s not the point I was making. Seera understood my point. It was an exaggeration of whats going on in the thread. I think that is where the miscommunication lies.

I also agree that it’s just players bashing and arguing just for the sake of arguing. While I enjoy the DISCUSSION, I am seeing very little of that going on. You suggestion is a good idea of what this thread needs more of. Actual feedback and responses, not just a toxic back and forth.

Question for the pro-duel crowd:

How many of you were happy with the Living Story? Both how it played out, and what they did with it? How about the Fractals update? Megaservers? Ascended gear? Town clothes?

Do you really want to just say “Give us dueling!”, and trust that they’ll get it right?

If you really do want this, I’d suggest you get a lot of people talking about HOW you want it. What do you want it to do, and how do you make it do that? How do you see it being implemented to minimize the negative impacts it may have on the game? What other features will be impacted by this, and how do you make that a good impact? What would make it popular enough to draw in new people? And how will it bring ANet short-term profits? (Not being mean here, ANet is clearly focused on short-term returns. Given how hard it is to predict things in the long term, I can’t entirely blame them.)

Getting ANet to implement Dueling won’t make you happy if they do it in a way that fails to deliver on what you wanted from it. And THAT is something they’ve proven to be good at.

Palador.2170:

Question for the pro-duel crowd:

How many of you were happy with the Living Story? Both how it played out, and what they did with it? How about the Fractals update? Megaservers? Ascended gear? Town clothes?

Do you really want to just say “Give us dueling!”, and trust that they’ll get it right?

If you really do want this, I’d suggest you get a lot of people talking about HOW you want it. What do you want it to do, and how do you make it do that? How do you see it being implemented to minimize the negative impacts it may have on the game? What other features will be impacted by this, and how do you make that a good impact? What would make it popular enough to draw in new people? And how will it bring ANet short-term profits? (Not being mean here, ANet is clearly focused on short-term returns. Given how hard it is to predict things in the long term, I can’t entirely blame them.)

Getting ANet to implement Dueling won’t make you happy if they do it in a way that fails to deliver on what you wanted from it. And THAT is something they’ve proven to be good at.

It has been mentioned a few times,

I also agree if not a direct addition to the game of a dueling option for all, this idea would work great.
Possibly clicking the said item when self is targeted an icon would show up similar to the Representation Buttons of Cutthroat Politics Living story chapter.
here’s the original post

NewTrain.7549:
“Here, you all want dueling so bad, I’ve got your solution.
Gem Store Item – 800 gems – Dueling Flag: Use issues a challenge to selected other player in possession of a dueling flag. If used on a player without a dueling flag, there is no effect and your dueling flag goes on a 15 sec cooldown. May not be used in instances, sPvP, or WvW.”

I would add unlimited uses of course, and possible like I mentioned above similar to the Representation Buttons of Cutthroat Politics as notification as someone w/said item and open to duels.

For those that were not playing at the time it would look like this, but instead of a face possibly a picture of a flag.