Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Scrambles.2604:

Lanfear, i’m not trying to be rude so no need to get all snippy. We’re all still friends here chatting on the forums instead of working >_>

I agree the block/report features probably needs work. I haven’t really blocked many people besides gold sellers so i don’t have a lot of personal experience with this issue. You seem to be a magnet for trolls or something. I tend to keep to myself and my guild and rarely post in map chat outside of WvW.

Regardless, your concerns are once again about something that is not duels so i am trying my best to keep this train on it’s rails.

I wasn’t being snippy, but I can be if you’d like.

OK fine, my concerns have nothing to do with duels. They aren’t related in any way. You heard him folks. Our concerns aren’t related, they aren’t valid. Don’t warrant discussion or consideration as they aren’t related to the topic. Just like every other time this has come, we don’t agree so we don’t matter.

/vote no on open world duels

Vast majority of the harassment I have seen to myself and to others have been from open world dueling. I find it interesting that in MMOs that do not have open world dueling I have not seen nearly as much harassment of any kind as those that do have Open world dueling. You put someone on ignore, and all you did was stop yourself from seeing the crap/lies they talk about you on the general chats.

Players would eventually harass each other. Just look at the level of hate and trolling that takes place already. Dueling would more than likely make every inch of Tyria vial and hostile. Which would probably kill the game.

/no

Scrambles.2604:

I wont deny that my friends would probably be more agreeable to my position, no doubt. But my friends aren’t in favor of dueling or anti-dueling…because they come from a time where there wasn’t an “anti-dueling.” The games we played just had duels, it went without saying.

That’s why the anti-dueling notion is so baffling to myself and others. My experience has been with MMOs that just had duels as a standard feature, along with auction houses, quests, pvp, etc. If you didn’t like dueling you didn’t do it. Hit decline and move on. For the most part, duelists congregated outside of major cities, so if you wanted to duel you would go there. At the same, you had the freedom to duel other places.

GW2 is the first MMO i’ve played without duels, so it’s the first time i’ve experienced resistance to what i’ve come to know as a staple feature in the genre. The dev’s have indicated that it wasn’t intentionally left out, as in they don’t think it doesn’t belong in the game. But people fight against any suggestions for duels like it doesn’t belong in this game.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2.”

This statement by Mike O’Brien created the impression that whatever beef a player has with MMO’s would be “fixed” in GW2. Throw in dueling not enabled at launch (or since) and bingo.

i have a question for all the yaysayers, how does it benefit the game in a whole when duels are shuffed in everybody’s face, even if they simply don’t want it to happen around them?
it just baffles me how many excuses i see how much they want duels in the game yet they constantly justify all the trolling and harassment, the thing that will 100% happen 24/7.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Scrambles.2604:

I wont deny that my friends would probably be more agreeable to my position, no doubt. But my friends aren’t in favor of dueling or anti-dueling…because they come from a time where there wasn’t an “anti-dueling.” The games we played just had duels, it went without saying.

That’s why the anti-dueling notion is so baffling to myself and others. My experience has been with MMOs that just had duels as a standard feature, along with auction houses, quests, pvp, etc. If you didn’t like dueling you didn’t do it. Hit decline and move on. For the most part, duelists congregated outside of major cities, so if you wanted to duel you would go there. At the same, you had the freedom to duel other places.

GW2 is the first MMO i’ve played without duels, so it’s the first time i’ve experienced resistance to what i’ve come to know as a staple feature in the genre. The dev’s have indicated that it wasn’t intentionally left out, as in they don’t think it doesn’t belong in the game. But people fight against any suggestions for duels like it doesn’t belong in this game.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2.”

This statement by Mike O’Brien created the impression that whatever beef a player has with MMO’s would be “fixed” in GW2. Throw in dueling not enabled at launch (or since) and bingo.

That, or

the dev’s also said they’d like to add open world duels at some point.

I’m not sure what you’re implying with the yoda picture. I’m not the one doomsaying. There are people here literally saying duels would destroy the game. That is textbook fearmongering. On the contrary, i think there is nothing to fear with the addition of duels to the open world.

sorudo.9054:

i have a question for all the yaysayers, how does it benefit the game in a whole when duels are shuffed in everybody’s face, even if they simply don’t want it to happen around them?
it just baffles me how many excuses i see how much they want duels in the game yet they constantly justify all the trolling and harassment, the thing that will 100% happen 24/7.

The answer on that will maybe also answer the question why duel-spammers don’t accept a “NO” and spam at least 2-3 other duel requests if you decline.

However, i doubt there will ever be a good answer beside : its fun for ME and who the heck cares if its not fun for YOU.

Beldin.5498:

sorudo.9054:

i have a question for all the yaysayers, how does it benefit the game in a whole when duels are shuffed in everybody’s face, even if they simply don’t want it to happen around them?
it just baffles me how many excuses i see how much they want duels in the game yet they constantly justify all the trolling and harassment, the thing that will 100% happen 24/7.

The answer on that will maybe also answer the question why duel-spammers don’t accept a “NO” and spam at least 2-3 other duel requests if you decline.

However, i doubt there will ever be a good answer beside : its fun for ME and who the heck cares if its not fun for YOU.

I mentioned in my very post that the game does NOTHING to teach you howto PvP, yet it holds your hand from lvl 1-80, teaching you skills one by one. Dueling would serve as an intermediary for those that want to try PvP without getting overwhelmed or completely wrecked from the get-go.

Why do you guys keep implying that if you want duels you are a selfish, super-competitive, troll that just wants to harass people? Surely your worldview isn’t so tarnished that you believe that majority of the players to be that way?

2/3 of GW2 is based around PvP (PvE, sPvP, WvW), yet there is this ideology on the forums that says the only reason you could like PvP is if you enjoy hurting other players feelings.

There’s also this sense of entitlement from the naysayers where you are not allowed to do activities they disapprove of while in their immediate vicinity.

Omg dumb idea. What i hated most in mmo’s with dueling is the constant duel spamming everywhere you go. Its so kitten annoying. Some morons can’t take no for an answer either. So a big no to this idea.

Scrambles.2604:

Beldin.5498:

sorudo.9054:

i have a question for all the yaysayers, how does it benefit the game in a whole when duels are shuffed in everybody’s face, even if they simply don’t want it to happen around them?
it just baffles me how many excuses i see how much they want duels in the game yet they constantly justify all the trolling and harassment, the thing that will 100% happen 24/7.

The answer on that will maybe also answer the question why duel-spammers don’t accept a “NO” and spam at least 2-3 other duel requests if you decline.

However, i doubt there will ever be a good answer beside : its fun for ME and who the heck cares if its not fun for YOU.

I mentioned in my very post that the game does NOTHING to teach you howto PvP, yet it holds your hand from lvl 1-80, teaching you skills one by one. Dueling would serve as an intermediary for those that want to try PvP without getting overwhelmed or completely wrecked from the get-go.

Why do you guys keep implying that if you want duels you are a selfish, super-competitive, troll that just wants to harass people? Surely your worldview isn’t so tarnished that you believe that majority of the players to be that way?

2/3 of GW2 is based around PvP (PvE, sPvP, WvW), yet there is this ideology on the forums that says the only reason you could like PvP is if you enjoy hurting other players feelings.

And why do you have to duel in the PvE area instead of the PvP Areas ?

There are people here that HATE PvP, and they play this game because here they never have to deal with it if they don’t want.
And i have the strong feeling that you would also never accept a decline and ask again and again : comeon carebear .. duell me .. its fun .. the same way that you can’t simply accept the “no” of people here in the forums.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

There’s also this sense of entitlement from the naysayers where you are not allowed to do activities they disapprove of while in their immediate vicinity.

it’s almost like they’re becoming the very thing they claim to be against. OMG that yoda picture was right…this is what fear is doing to them.

Beldin.5498:

And why do you have to duel in the PvE area instead of the PvP Areas ?

There are people here that HATE PvP, and they play this game because here they never have to deal with it if they don’t want.
And i have the strong feeling that you would also never accept a decline and ask again and again : comeon carebear .. duell me .. its fun .. the same way that you can’t simply accept the “no” of people here in the forums.

Because the PvE area is awesome! And mostly unused. The megaservers helped but there is still plenty of vacant space for duels to be enjoyed in.

Why can’t i take no for an answer?? Why do you feel the need to enter a thread suggesting that duels would be a good idea and shut it down?

Why isn’t it enough to just be able to decline a duel request? You decline party invite you don’t want, right? Do you get berrated everytime you decline a party invite too?

I could understand resistance if it was open pvp or nonconsual duels. But the very nature of open world duels requires consent from both parties.

If you want better tools to prevent harassment, advocate for that, but don’t force dueling to be caught in the cross fire. You could literally goto any suggestion and say it will lead to harassment, because trolls don’t need an excuse if they want to harass.

The only way to deal with trolls and let people enjoy the game is to implement proper features to deal with trolls, not limit the features available to players, that’s how the trolls win!!

edit; i just reread you post and caught the personal shot. Despite how i come across on the forums, i’m the nicest person you’ll ever meet in game. I didn’t even duel that much in WoW. I occasionally hung out in front of SW, but most of my duels were with guildies before onyxia and the like.

I’m nice on the forums too but my patience can only go so far when the other party is unreasable and resorts to wild, baseless claims and fearmongering. Oh and now personal shots. Those definitely help your case. Bully the innocent in the name of fighting trolls.

Scrambles.2604:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

There’s also this sense of entitlement from the naysayers where you are not allowed to do activities they disapprove of while in their immediate vicinity.

it’s almost like they’re becoming the very thing they claim to be against. OMG that yoda picture was right…this is what fear is doing to them.

Yeah, the knee jerk hatred is really weird. And I have no idea what games these people are playing but I’ve never had a problem with “duel harassment” in my 7 years with WoW. Makes me wonder if these people just sat outside Stormwind or Orgrimmar all day…because if you’re hanging out in those places people are going to assume you’re there to watch or duel.

Honestly had more of a problem in random dungeons then with duels. And I’ve had less issue in wow dungeons than in GW2 dungeons.

Scrambles.2604:

the dev’s also said they’d like to add open world duels at some point.

I’m not sure what you’re implying with the yoda picture. I’m not the one doomsaying. There are people here literally saying duels would destroy the game. That is textbook fearmongering. On the contrary, i think there is nothing to fear with the addition of duels to the open world.

Sorry, my feeble attempt to add some humor to what is obviously a serious topic seems to have failed. I’ll delete it.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Scrambles.2604:

the dev’s also said they’d like to add open world duels at some point.

I’m not sure what you’re implying with the yoda picture. I’m not the one doomsaying. There are people here literally saying duels would destroy the game. That is textbook fearmongering. On the contrary, i think there is nothing to fear with the addition of duels to the open world.

Sorry, my feeble attempt to add some humor to what is obviously a serious topic seems to have failed. I’ll delete it.

no worries, dude. I appreciate the attempt to add some levity. I thought you were still trying to debate coach me

It’s simple.

-Allow dueling anywhere. Those PvE players who say “I don’t want to see people dueling in my lions arch” are hypocrites. They are the first to fill LA with stupid costume brawls.

-Put in option in settings to ignore duel requests for those PvErs who are afraid or intimidated of duels.

-Saying to “go into a PvP arena” is not the answer since PvP builds are dumbed down and boring.

There’s absolutely no reason why this shouldn’t be added to the game.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Scrambles.2604:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

There’s also this sense of entitlement from the naysayers where you are not allowed to do activities they disapprove of while in their immediate vicinity.

it’s almost like they’re becoming the very thing they claim to be against. OMG that yoda picture was right…this is what fear is doing to them.

Yeah, the knee jerk hatred is really weird. And I have no idea what games these people are playing but I’ve never had a problem with “duel harassment” in my 7 years with WoW. Makes me wonder if these people just sat outside Stormwind or Orgrimmar all day…because if you’re hanging out in those places people are going to assume you’re there to watch or duel.

Honestly had more of a problem in random dungeons then with duels. And I’ve had less issue in wow dungeons than in GW2 dungeons.

i don’t want to blame the victim, but i wonder if it’s just a difference of approach, because my experience is the same as yours’.

I dabbled in DCU for a little bit, and i recall a time where i was sitting on a lvl 1 “avatar aang” toon, and a max lvl dude approaches me and duel requests me. I’m like…“oooook what does this dude expect?”

So i accept and he one hits me and goes “pfft some avatar” and leaves.

The whole experience took maybe 30 seconds, it wasn’t a big deal. It only stands out because i didn’t really play DCU that much. However, i wonder what would’ve happened if i had declined? Would he have left me alone? Would he have persisted to harass me?

Trolls thrive on resistance, and i tend to go with the flow of things. So maybe by nature i tend to deflect those that wish to troll or harass.

Like i said, i don’t want to blame the victim, but usually trolls target those willing to give them any sort of response (especially a negative one). I have seen trolls target people in map chat (in GW2) because that person responded to someone who was obviously fishing for a victim. Myself and others managed to avoid the troll by simply not giving him the response he was looking for.

Scrambles.2604:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Scrambles.2604:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

There’s also this sense of entitlement from the naysayers where you are not allowed to do activities they disapprove of while in their immediate vicinity.

it’s almost like they’re becoming the very thing they claim to be against. OMG that yoda picture was right…this is what fear is doing to them.

Yeah, the knee jerk hatred is really weird. And I have no idea what games these people are playing but I’ve never had a problem with “duel harassment” in my 7 years with WoW. Makes me wonder if these people just sat outside Stormwind or Orgrimmar all day…because if you’re hanging out in those places people are going to assume you’re there to watch or duel.

Honestly had more of a problem in random dungeons then with duels. And I’ve had less issue in wow dungeons than in GW2 dungeons.

i don’t want to blame the victim, but i wonder if it’s just a difference of approach, because my experience is the same as yours’.

I dabbled in DCU for a little bit, and i recall a time where i was sitting on a lvl 1 “avatar aang” toon, and a max lvl dude approaches me and duel requests me. I’m like…“oooook what does this dude expect?”

So i accept and he one hits me and goes “pfft some avatar” and leaves.

The whole experience took maybe 30 seconds, it wasn’t a big deal. It only stands out because i didn’t really play DCU that much. However, i wonder what would’ve happened if i had declined? Would he have left me alone? Would he have persisted to harass me?

Trolls thrive on resistance, and i tend to go with the flow of things. So maybe by nature i tend to deflect those that wish to troll or harass.

Like i said, i don’t want to blame the victim, but usually trolls target those willing to give them any sort of response (especially a negative one). I have seen trolls target people in map chat (in GW2) because that person responded to someone who was obviously fishing for a victim. Myself and others managed to avoid the troll by simply not giving him the response he was looking for.

Before auto-decline, the few times I got challenged I would just walk away and carry on with my business. Sometimes they would follow and try to spam it, but I would just leave the option up so they couldn’t. One person sent me a tell and I put him on ignore. That’s all that ever happened to me. None of it was a big deal or a problem or “harassment”. Like you said. It was taken care of in 30 seconds during a gaming session which would last several hours.

Bolthar.7192:

I would still like to see this. I know there are dueling servers but I don’t think they quite fulfill the need (is it just me?).

Dueling is necessary for players to have a fair 1v1 battle with their friends without the inevitable 1v1 battle turns into a 3v1 battle ending in rage and exasperation. This also helps a player learn to fight specific classes and hone their skills in a fair environment.

PvE dueling is necessary because players shouldn’t have to go through 2 loading screens and a possible queue to duel with a friend real fast in the mists, then take another 2 loading screens to get back to PvE followed by a waypoint to get close to where they were adventuring before when they decided to have a quick duel.

I feel this feature would be really nice and possibly even introduce PvE players to PvP in a more fun and less frustrating way… among friends and not probably angry strangers.

For the millionth time NOOOOOOOOOOOO

You want dueling?

1- go to heart of the mists and do custom arenas 1v1.
2- I don’t mind them enabling dueling in heart of the mist.

Leave the PVE world alone !

EvilSardine.9635:

It’s simple.

-Allow dueling anywhere. Those PvE players who say “I don’t want to see people dueling in my lions arch” are hypocrites. They are the first to fill LA with stupid costume brawls.

Some PvE folks despise those costume brawls.

-Saying to “go into a PvP arena” is not the answer since PvP builds are dumbed down and boring.

Then have ANet fix your dumbed down and boring game mode.
No need to remake what they already have to fix up.

Face it, some of you want dueling because you can’t stand that PvP in this game isn’t worth it, but PvE’s balance is better. That just shows how much the former needs work, not to cram it into the latter.

Neural.1824:

These threads never get old.

There are two things at play here.

1. Griefers are apoplectic that Guild Wars 2 is so well designed that they can’t get their jollies from harassing any person they come across.

2. Another group, just as belligerent, is upset because Anet doesn’t provide a way for them to get attention from a captive audience.

I have yet to meet someone who is pro-dueling that doesn’t exude a completely toxic attitude while spending an exorbitant amount of time justifying why other people should be forced to watch them prove their manhood against someone else.

And to the notion that “harassment” is the issue, not dueling….we hear the same argument for open world pvp in pve zones. "It is not owpvp that is bad, it is harassment that is bad. They are 2 different things!’

If one believes this, it is spooky. The arguments are truly disingenuous.

Dueling is a huge jerk magnet. It is not about those who will just duel friends.
I have noted elsewhere my disgusting experience with it in gaming over the years. To think it will be any different here is insanity.

Rather than a rare occurrence, it was (went I finally quit my last game) a daily frustration cured only by going to a different map and hopefully being left alone there. often logging off and not playing was the best answer. These nut cases simply get too big a thrill out of harassing you, and dueling is a perfect vehicle for it. Not as good as the opportunities offered by open world pvp on pve maps (a griefers playground), but it serves just fine. The perfect flash point for harassment.

Which, after dueling is introduced, will be the subject of the next endless campaig . “Because ganking is not pvp…why can’t we have open world pvp on pve maps? Harrassment is the issue, not owpvp! We need it! The game will die without it!Only the entitled oppose this! There is no reason not to have owpvp on pve maps!”

Hopefully anet will not start down this road and make pve maps the playground for griefers. But they well may do it; they have made some awful changes recently already.

I have previously mentioned that I feel bad about giving “no votes” to things that some people would find fun but carry huge negatives with them.

The dismissive tone and condescension (and the absurd lengths to which words and arguments are twisted to serve cross purposes) has rather changed my feeling. It is hard to have sympathy for those whom in the future I suspect will be the very ones to cause me grief in game.

EvilSardine.9635:

It’s simple.

-Allow dueling anywhere. Those PvE players who say “I don’t want to see people dueling in my lions arch” are hypocrites. They are the first to fill LA with stupid costume brawls.

-Put in option in settings to ignore duel requests for those PvErs who are afraid or intimidated of duels.

-Saying to “go into a PvP arena” is not the answer since PvP builds are dumbed down and boring.

There’s absolutely no reason why this shouldn’t be added to the game.

harrasments, trolls, the fact that PvP doesn’t belong in PvE in both PvE-er’s wishes and lore.
also, that you think PvP arenas are boring doesn’t mean we PvE-ers have to deal with the PvP crowd ruining PvE, you have your place so use it or stop complaining.

Brtiva.9721:

Neural.1824:

These threads never get old.

There are two things at play here.

1. Griefers are apoplectic that Guild Wars 2 is so well designed that they can’t get their jollies from harassing any person they come across.

2. Another group, just as belligerent, is upset because Anet doesn’t provide a way for them to get attention from a captive audience.

I have yet to meet someone who is pro-dueling that doesn’t exude a completely toxic attitude while spending an exorbitant amount of time justifying why other people should be forced to watch them prove their manhood against someone else.

And to the notion that “harassment” is the issue, not dueling….we hear the same argument for open world pvp in pve zones. "It is not owpvp that is bad, it is harassment that is bad. They are 2 different things!’

If one believes this, it is spooky. The arguments are truly disingenuous.

Dueling is a huge jerk magnet. It is not about those who will just duel friends.
I have noted elsewhere my disgusting experience with it in gaming over the years. To think it will be any different here is insanity.

Rather than a rare occurrence, it was (went I finally quit my last game) a daily frustration cured only by going to a different map and hopefully being left alone there. often logging off and not playing was the best answer. These nut cases simply get too big a thrill out of harassing you, and dueling is a perfect vehicle for it. Not as good as the opportunities offered by open world pvp on pve maps (a griefers playground), but it serves just fine. The perfect flash point for harassment.

Which, after dueling is introduced, will be the subject of the next endless campaig . “Because ganking is not pvp…why can’t we have open world pvp on pve maps? Harrassment is the issue, not owpvp! We need it! The game will die without it!Only the entitled oppose this! There is no reason not to have owpvp on pve maps!”

Hopefully anet will not start down this road and make pve maps the playground for griefers. But they well may do it; they have made some awful changes recently already.

I have previously mentioned that I feel bad about giving “no votes” to things that some people would find fun but carry huge negatives with them.

The dismissive tone and condescension (and the absurd lengths to which words and arguments are twisted to serve cross purposes) has rather changed my feeling. It is hard to have sympathy for those whom in the future I suspect will be the very ones to cause me grief in game.

There is a big difference between duels and world pvp. Say it with me now…

CON-SENT

Duels require consent from both parties. It’s unfortunate that you were bullied out of your last game, but your anger is misplaced. Your issue isn’t with duels. You just ran into some rotten people.

When i get booted from a dungeon cuz i’m playing a thief, do i blame the dungeon? Do i blame the vote kick method? Do i blame the class design that makes guardians/wars preferable to dungeons over thieves?

No. I calls it like i sees it. It’s jerk players acting rude. These players exist in every MMO, with or without duels.

edit— i love how you accuse me of being condescending, yet you are totally cool with the presupposition that if you are in favor of duels you fall into either category:

1. Griefers are apoplectic that Guild Wars 2 is so well designed that they can’t get their jollies from harassing any person they come across.

2. Another group, just as belligerent, is upset because Anet doesn’t provide a way for them to get attention from a captive audience.

No…that’s not offensive at all. I guess since i want duels i must fall into one of those categories. It’s like that blurred line with Batman…does he himself become a villian in the fight against villainy? Are you so determined to squash duel suggestions that you yourself have become the greifer you hate so much?

sorudo.9054:

EvilSardine.9635:

It’s simple.

-Allow dueling anywhere. Those PvE players who say “I don’t want to see people dueling in my lions arch” are hypocrites. They are the first to fill LA with stupid costume brawls.

-Put in option in settings to ignore duel requests for those PvErs who are afraid or intimidated of duels.

-Saying to “go into a PvP arena” is not the answer since PvP builds are dumbed down and boring.

There’s absolutely no reason why this shouldn’t be added to the game.

harrasments, trolls, the fact that PvP doesn’t belong in PvE in both PvE-er’s wishes and lore.
also, that you think PvP arenas are boring doesn’t mean we PvE-ers have to deal with the PvP crowd ruining PvE, you have your place so use it or stop complaining.

So, PvP players somehow ruin PvE? What should I be saying about PvE players like you who come into WvW for their achievements and map completion? I have nothing against you guys.

Maybe you wouldn’t be so afraid of dueling if you could duel your buddies and become good at PvP. Just think of it like that.

Stop taking the game so seriously. It’s fine if you die to another player.

sorudo.9054:

If you have to turn on the ability to be able to be requested to duel, you shouldn’t be affected. Dueling shouldn’t be available in the center of the main cities for the sake of people that for some reason can’t even bare to have people having fun dueling in their presence.

The arguments against dueling are either easily solved or petty.
The arguments for dueling are strong.

Phadde.7362:

sorudo.9054:

If you have to turn on the ability to be able to be requested to duel, you shouldn’t be affected. Dueling shouldn’t be available in the center of the main cities for the sake of people that for some reason can’t even bare to have people having fun dueling in their presence.

The arguments against dueling are either easily solved or petty.
The arguments for dueling are strong.

I was doing research today (yes, i know, that’s lame), and DCU used to have an auto-decline duels, but now they have a pvp-flag esque duel system. Basically, you flag yourself as able to be dueled and other people that want to duel can request you.

I thought that was a cool idea. Not so different then a auto-decline, except it only really puts you on the spot if you want to duel, not the other way around.

Scrambles.2604:

… Basically, you flag yourself as able to be dueled and other people that want to duel can request you.

I thought that was a cool idea. Not so different then a auto-decline, except it only really puts you on the spot if you want to duel, not the other way around.

This is what I mean; Opt in instead of Opt out. Everyone’s happy =)

Scrambles.2604:

Basically, you flag yourself as able to be dueled and other people that want to duel can request you.

I thought that was a cool idea. Not so different then a auto-decline, except it only really puts you on the spot if you want to duel, not the other way around.

This sounds like a perfect solution. I also wouldn’t mind if dueling was kept to only outside the city. Or even some random corner of a random PvE map.

Any PvErs against dueling with the above limitations are just being silly.

I’ll go one more time at this and voice my concerns with open world PvE dueling and even post possible solutions. I’m basing my post on the assumption that if PvE dueling did exist there would be auto-decline option.

1. The affect that dueling will have in /map, /say. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t understand the point of healthy competition and can’t control themselves win or lose. My concern is rage over duels will spill into /map and /say with a lot of garbage talk. Sure I can turn those channels off but why should I have to? Here are just 2 few fairly recent examples (out of many I have read on the forum) of how a duel gone bad can spill into trash talk:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Bad-reactions-after-duels/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Hostility-in-PvP/

Possible solution: 5 minute cool down before you can post in /map, /say after a duel. (not a likely solution but I thought I would throw it in). Even then I can see where there a lot of trash talk could still spill into /map

2. The affect dueling will have on the PvE environment. If people want to duel fine, but I don’t want to watch it or have to deal with it all over my screen. I don’t want to be at a bank, TP, crafting station or vendor with people dueling all over my screen. People that support open world dueling state it allows to duel in “awesome” locations. Will people really start duels in areas where they might accidentally tag a neutral mob with a multi-target or AOE skill? Will they duel among hostiles? Doubtful. Duels will occur in the safe areas which are also the most populated by PvE players.

Possible solution: No dueling in main cities. Have designated dueling areas in certain maps. This will allow people that want to duel, and practice or whatever reason those that want dueling to due so. They will have the full benefit of dueling in PvE gear while not disturbing other players. Oddly those that are most supportive of PvE dueling reject this compromise every time it is brought up even though it fits most of the criteria for why they want PvE dueling anyway.

3. Scaling. For those that want to duel if they are in areas below L80 how do they know who they are dueling level wise? Like WvW obviously someone L20 dueling someone L80 in say, Queensdale will be at a huge disadvantage and not know they accepted a duel with a L80. I can see where this will lead to a lot of high level players hanging out in low level zones trying to duel new players for bragging rights. This might leave a bad taste in the mouth of new players that are trying to learn the game and testing the dueling system at the same time.

Possible solution: When a duel is requested it shows the true level of both players.

I’m not totally against dueling in PvE as long as there are some limits. I think I have been fair in considering ways that it could be introduced without disturbing the overall PvE population. I think with some compromise it could be integrated and fit the needs of those that want to duel for fun, to practice, and do so in the spirit of healthy competition. To be fair I’m not labeling the entire pro-PvE duel crowd as a bunch of griefers that want to cause trouble. However, I think it is fair to say that introducing open world dueling will indeed open up avenues for more people to try to cause problems for others. Sure, there are already trouble makers in PvE but that doesn’t mean it is a good idea to introduce more tools for people to cause more problems.

I feel that if PvE dueling is important to those that want to duel in PvE with no intentions of causing problems a few limits on where and when PvE dueling can be done is a fair compromise.

Phadde.7362:

Scrambles.2604:

… Basically, you flag yourself as able to be dueled and other people that want to duel can request you.

I thought that was a cool idea. Not so different then a auto-decline, except it only really puts you on the spot if you want to duel, not the other way around.

This is what I mean; Opt in instead of Opt out. Everyone’s happy =)

Well not everyone. Some people who don’t like dueling might see a few other people dueling/having fun, and will get offended.

JustTrogdor.7892:

I’m not totally against dueling in PvE as long as there are some limits. I think I have been fair in considering ways that it could be introduced without disturbing the overall PvE population. …….
………

I feel that if PvE dueling is important to those that want to duel in PvE with no intentions of causing problems a few limits on where and when PvE dueling can be done is a fair compromise.

Nice! Well put.
I think that dueling should be available in part of the main cities: Perhaps a district in DR, in some open areas off the main road in BC, below Vigil Keep, on the bottom floor of the Grove, and so on.

I didn’t really think of the issue with downscaled characters. Because of this, I don’t think that dueling should be allowed in the level 1-15 zones.
In other areas I think it should be available.
However, your suggestion of having Dueling locations is a good one and would probably suffice if it’s more than a problem than I though.

It could be like a discreet circle with a flag, where you would be able to request duels for those within the circle who have manually enabled dueling requests for their character.
However, we would miss out on a lot of awesome dueling locations around the world unless ANet makes an absolutely splendid job with spreading them out around the world.

What about making it a tag bought from the gem store? You would only be able to send a request to duel to someone else who had a tag. That way non duelers wouldn’t be effected by being spammed with duel requests and trolled, and duelers would be able to have their duels. The tag would only have x amount of charges depending on gem costs, or 1000-1500 gems for a permenent one. Trolls spamming map chat for duels, and trolling people would still be subjected to blocking and reporting, but the tag will eliminate many of the causes for griefing, and help minimize chat spams. Also include an option to turn it off if activated, that way those duelers not actively seeking a duel don’t have to be harassed.

Good suggestions, Trogdor.

I think that restricting map chat just because you want to duel someone is a little harsh. It’s not like map chat has ever been a place a civil discussion. If someone is being rude in map chat, just put them on ignore, just like you would and probably do now.

It takes a lot of fun out of dueling or watching duels if you have to be quiet about it. I dunno…it seems a little too authoritative. “Keep quiet while you’re doing dueling…you don’t want to upset the fun police!”

Otherwise, i’ve always been cool with keeping duels away from busy work places….crafting/TP/Bank. I mean, it is a little silly. It’s not like players don’t already spam their abilities in those places all the time, but i guess some people can’t be bothered to see other players having fun or doing things in the world.

As far as fighting near mobs— the nature of duels themselves de-incentivizes this. You wouldn’t want to duel near mobs because you will get low health from the duel and the mob will kill you. Maybe you could lock out dueling if there is a boss event going on…but if you restrict duels in the open world too much there really isn’t a point to having them in the open world in the first place.

Level scaling is cool, too. I mean, if a lvl 80 player wants to fight low lvls, they could…you know…just decline the duel.

Regardless, unnecessary concessions — yes. But does it totally ruin what we traditionally know as open world duels? — no, not really.

Now that that’s settled, we can go back the first page where i was talking about how there is no easy, monetary incentive for Anet to prioritize dueling, compared to LS and adding skins to the Gem shop, so we will probably not see it for a long while anyway.

Scrambles.2604:

Why do you guys keep implying that if you want duels you are a selfish, super-competitive, troll that just wants to harass people? Surely your worldview isn’t so tarnished that you believe that majority of the players to be that way?

It may have something to do with the inability of people supporting duels in this thread to even consider any option that would not put it in front of people that dislike it.

I’ll put this as concisely as I can. If they add open world dueling into the PvE environment, I will find something else to play. If I want to play PvP or WvW I can go to the appropriate area. However, if I want to join in with like minded PvE players to defeat the “evil” in a friendly environment I can do so.

Of course there will be the few that would not abuse the system, erring on the side of caution dictates that we not add this feature in though. As my experience is that most times it just deteriorates into the an excuse (for some) to prey on the weak taking away the true spirit of the PvE environment of co-operation.

Scrambles.2604:

It takes a lot of fun out of dueling or watching duels if you have to be quiet about it. I dunno…it seems a little too authoritative. “Keep quiet while you’re doing dueling…you don’t want to upset the fun police!”

I thought your idea for open world duels was to have fun, duel friends, test PvE builds, practice for PvP as you stated a few times and so forth. I don’t see why discussing the results in /map should be part of that. After all it is a 1v1 thing and not a group activity. Whispering your opponent post duel to discuss the results should suffice since most everyone else most likely would not care. Like I said in my post, the chat cool down was just a thing I tossed out there and not very plausible. However it would reduce post duel trash talk in open channels.

Scrambles.2604:

Otherwise, i’ve always been cool with keeping duels away from busy work places….crafting/TP/Bank. I mean, it is a little silly. It’s not like players don’t already spam their abilities in those places all the time, but i guess some people can’t be bothered to see other players having fun or doing things in the world.

Again just because a way to annoy others already exists doesn’t mean that more tools to do so should be implemented. This is why I feel designated dueling areas in maps would be fair and limit this type of disturbance. If anything perhaps a certain distance from vendors, TP, banks, and so forth would be required before a duel can occur. Perhaps a 5,000 unit distance as a barrier.

Scrambles.2604:

As far as fighting near mobs— the nature of duels themselves de-incentivizes this. You wouldn’t want to duel near mobs because you will get low health from the duel and the mob will kill you.

That was my point. Players will choose to duel in safe areas, the very areas most populated by everyone else that isn’t dueling. So it seems that designated dueling areas with no fear of taking agro from mobs would make sense.

Scrambles.2604:

Level scaling is cool, too. I mean, if a lvl 80 player wants to fight low lvls, they could…you know…just decline the duel.

Again, my other point if someone L20 gets a challenge from a L80 in say Queensdale, because of downscaling indicators they have no idea what level they are up against. Thus my proposal that a duel request would show the true level of each player. That would give each player the option to decline once seeing what level they were up against.

Once again I am not totally against PvE dueling and I probably would go up against some of my friends as long as there were some limits that would bring minimal impact to the bulk of the PvE community.

For me it isn’t about not wanting to see players having fun as you like to state. I encourage everyone to have fun all they want in GW2. However, when someone else’s idea of fun might impact my idea of fun be it visually or disturbances in chat channels, or what not then I think it is fair to voice my opinion just as it is fair to voice your own on what you consider fun.

You know what I hate? PvE people in my WvW holding the team back because they are only there for AP and jumping puzzles. Yet I don’t demand you stop or leave because you have every right to be there.

So I don’t get this hate for two people who might be dueling in Shaemoor and how you can be entitled to make ANY demands of them.

pdavis.8031:

What about making it a tag bought from the gem store? You would only be able to send a request to duel to someone else who had a tag. That way non duelers wouldn’t be effected by being spammed with duel requests and trolled, and duelers would be able to have their duels. The tag would only have x amount of charges depending on gem costs, or 1000-1500 gems for a permenent one. Trolls spamming map chat for duels, and trolling people would still be subjected to blocking and reporting, but the tag will eliminate many of the causes for griefing, and help minimize chat spams. Also include an option to turn it off if activated, that way those duelers not actively seeking a duel don’t have to be harassed.

This contains something which may in fact be very relevant to my hugely negative experience with dueling systems, a way that possibly could remove the griefers thrill with dueling demands.

Please, mind you, I differentiate between a griefer and person who just likes dueling. The problem is, naturally, the griefer.

Here is the thing: the idea that without a tag, a player cannot even be issued a request. THIS seems to have been the key or flash point in every incident I have seen.

This may be verbose, but I would like to explain.

I will use my recent/previous game, which for whatever reason was the worst case. The ignore list was limited to 100 names and it filled quickly all due to duel spamming. After that I could not block anyone.

I had literally hundreds of demands to duel, and it had no auto decline to boot! All but 1 decline was accepted gracefully. All others resulted in repeated spam/ harassment, following and disrupting until I left the map. This cannot be justifiably called acceptable.

BUT, here is the 1 feature all had in common: they fed upon the decline. They, in my opinion, wanted a decline even more than an accept. Thinking about it, this is why I am not satisfied with an auto decline option. It is STILL a decline, which in retrospect seems to be the key thing.

What if this system were in place? Where, as mentioned above, one may not even get a request if not wearing the tag?

It is very possible that this 1 thing would remove the “flash point” that griefers seek.

Please do not misunderstand my opposition to the basic notion of dueling on pve maps. It is NOT to deny anyone fun. I do NOT consider one who wants to duel to be a griefer. My opposition has been based upon the overwhelmingly negative experience I have had with such systems due to their immense appeal to griefers. I have made no exaggeration as to the frequency and prevalence of this nonsense.

It is a curious thing; what if this 1 thing could actually remove the incentive to grief? Every incident (and the number is truly huge) I saw, required a decline or auto decline (in games having an auto decline).

The refusal to accept was the flash point for endless harassment.

No lie, I had no choice but to leave the map. They simply would not let go, so to speak. No amount of patience was sufficient; if you were there, they persisted.

Maybe enabling a system where the request itself cannot even be made (
as distinct from an auto decline, which is the same as a decline essentially), would negate the lion’s share of hassles.

But, this one thing here, may be the sole issue that made it such an attractive item for griefers. What if it was removed? I do not exactly trust anet, sadly, to implement a system well. But perhaps that is another story.

I don’t ever want to be pestered about dueling. Ever.

Brtiva.9721:

It is STILL a decline, which in retrospect seems to be the key thing.

Not having the “dueling tag” turned on doesn’t mean that you’re actively declining a specific persons dueling request. It means that you, at that time, do not wish to duel with anyone whatsoever. Making the tag an Opt-in feature makes it a passive act of leaving the tag disabled, rather than an active act of disabling it.

Everytime this topic is brought up I always see the same reasons anti-duelists use against putting in dueling. Harassment.

Well first of all, if you do not have a thick enough skin to play a social game like an MMO you should probably play something else. MMO’s breed some of the most vile gamers second only to MOBAS. Second of all, there are many other ways to get harassed than dueling. Anyone who’s ever stepped foot in a dungeon group knows what I’m talking about. If you complain about imaginary 12 year olds harassing you about dueling I wonder if you’ve ever run a dungeon in this game and see the kind of community there.

Now if you still are paranoid about dueling harassment, step foot into Obsidian Sanctum. The arena there is basically a dueling arena. You don’t have to PvP, just step foot in there and hang around the arena. Engage in the community and you will see that NO one harasses anyone there. You will get a request to duel by some bored passerby, usually expressed by emoting at you or jumping around you, even if you decline no one will invite you to party and say “LMAO U SCARED BRAH HUH YOU WUSS BRAH FITE ME IRL” They’ll just be on their way. I’ve been dueling in OS since the day it arrived and I’ve since made tons of friends from enemy servers and had great conversations with them.

There’s harassment everywhere, how anti-duelists remain blind to the numerous PvE harassment is a mystery to me.

Scrambles.2604:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Scrambles.2604:

None of that matters though, because all evidence has shown Anet is pretty much OK with open world dueling.

Really? Care to show us where you read that?

Open World dueling? No thanks. Again!

yeah, give me a second to put on my smug suspenders.

Ok. Here’s an interview with Colin Johanson – skip to 14:11 if the video doesn’t do that automatically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU

That’s Anet talk for saying “We’ll add it in as soon as we find a way to make money off it.” Anet rarely does things to GW2 without having money as a reason for it. If they can find a way to monopolize dueling, they will add it. If they can’t, they won’t add it. Anet is a company, their objective like any company is to make money.

Kamikazi.5380:

Everytime this topic is brought up I always see the same reasons anti-duelists use against putting in dueling. Harassment.

See my recent posts in this thread. I don’t even mention “duel meh brah” harassment. You probably glossed over it. Similar points have been made by others but some tend to focus on the 1v1 harassment issue and ignore the other points brought up because the “duel me brah” argument is the easiest to defend.

And with that, I’m out of this thread. I’ve said what I felt was worth saying. I think I have been fair to all sides of the argument. Going on and on with this topic is a waste of time for all involved. It is just the same old stuff that has been said over and over in all the other threads. If anyone thinks for a moment this thread or even the same threads that are sure to follow will make a difference you are misguided.

It isn’t like PvE dueling is not on Anet’s radar. After all there are links showing they have it in mind as a possibility. I’m sure they have read all these threads about it with the same arguments over and over. If in fact they plan to integrate it I’m sure they have their vision by now. Everything we keep arguing about is just a waste of time.

No matter how it turns out I hope it works in the best interest of all GW2 players. We all like to see each other having fun. I don’t think any of us are members of the fun police.

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t ever want to be pestered about dueling. Ever.

Why would anyone pester you about dueling? If someone really wanted to pester you about dueling they would do it currently anyways since the closest thing to dueling would be to join an empty PvP arena. This whole “I don’t want to be pestered” thing is a horrible excuse people against dueling keep spouting.

Those of us who like to improve our skills in the game would love to duel our friends using our PvE/WvW builds (PvP amulet builds are boring).

Well maybe add some arena in the open world were people can duel,can be the area were queen living story was or somthink

EvilSardine.9635:

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t ever want to be pestered about dueling. Ever.

Why would anyone pester you about dueling? If someone really wanted to pester you about dueling they would do it currently anyways since the closest thing to dueling would be to join an empty PvP arena. This whole “I don’t want to be pestered” thing is a horrible excuse people against dueling keep spouting.

Those of us who like to improve our skills in the game would love to duel our friends using our PvE/WvW builds (PvP amulet builds are boring).

I had a two week thing with WoW years ago. I was challenged on an hourly basis when ever I ran into another low level player. No I wasn’t on a PvP server for that reason and no it wasn’t due to KSing or anything else. I was standing in an inn. That put me off of allowing dueling in PvE forever.

Behellagh.1468:

EvilSardine.9635:

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t ever want to be pestered about dueling. Ever.

Why would anyone pester you about dueling? If someone really wanted to pester you about dueling they would do it currently anyways since the closest thing to dueling would be to join an empty PvP arena. This whole “I don’t want to be pestered” thing is a horrible excuse people against dueling keep spouting.

Those of us who like to improve our skills in the game would love to duel our friends using our PvE/WvW builds (PvP amulet builds are boring).

I had a two week thing with WoW years ago. I was challenged on an hourly basis when ever I ran into another low level player. No I wasn’t on a PvP server for that reason and no it wasn’t due to KSing or anything else. I was standing in an inn. That put me off of allowing dueling in PvE forever.

First of all, this isn’t WoW. This is a completely different game with completely different mechanics and community.

What is stopping anyone from harassing you to fight them in a sPvP custom arena? Anyone can come up to you and tell you to fight them and meet them at a certain custom arena, it’s no different then being sent a duel request. If this has ever happened to you, feel free to post screenshots of it here.

Kamikazi.5380:

Behellagh.1468:

EvilSardine.9635:

Behellagh.1468:

I don’t ever want to be pestered about dueling. Ever.

Why would anyone pester you about dueling? If someone really wanted to pester you about dueling they would do it currently anyways since the closest thing to dueling would be to join an empty PvP arena. This whole “I don’t want to be pestered” thing is a horrible excuse people against dueling keep spouting.

Those of us who like to improve our skills in the game would love to duel our friends using our PvE/WvW builds (PvP amulet builds are boring).

I had a two week thing with WoW years ago. I was challenged on an hourly basis when ever I ran into another low level player. No I wasn’t on a PvP server for that reason and no it wasn’t due to KSing or anything else. I was standing in an inn. That put me off of allowing dueling in PvE forever.

First of all, this isn’t WoW. This is a completely different game with completely different mechanics and community.

What is stopping anyone from harassing you to fight them in a sPvP custom arena? Anyone can come up to you and tell you to fight them and meet them at a certain custom arena, it’s no different then being sent a duel request. If this has ever happened to you, feel free to post screenshots of it here.

Don’t bother. Many of these people simply make stuff up mainly because they have a problem with people playing the game as they wish because it’s not the “right” way.

So if people can do this now, why add it to the game “officially”. And you don’t think a simple right click select challenge wouldn’t increase the occurrence of challenges?

Behellagh.1468:

So if people can do this now, why add it to the game “officially”. And you don’t think a simple right click select challenge wouldn’t increase the occurrence of challenges?

So other people shouldn’t have access to basic functionality because you’re unable to ignore things, report, and move on?

It’s not basic functionality if the game was designed never to have it (button to issue challenge another player and duel in PvE zone). And if such functionality was so important to you then why play a game that doesn’t have it?

It’s like complaining the game doesn’t have the traditional MMO trinity.