Guild Wars 2

Once again, and dueling thread pops up. Well, I have a counter offer that goes a little bit into Dueling. It actually kill’s two birds with one stone. How about an unfriendly fire state? Where if enough players target another player, we turn red and can attack the target and the target can respond in kind? This gives a taste of dueling and finally empowers the community to take care of trolls. Because Anet has gives us next to nothing to handle grievers.

If Anet isn’t going to protect the players, then they should empower us so we can protect ourselves.

What’s stopping me from forming a troll guild with the sole purpose of PK’ing newbies in Queensdale?

Vol.7601:

What’s stopping me from forming a troll guild with the sole purpose of PK’ing newbies in Queensdale?

Because I have faith that good players far outweigh the grievers. And, please do create a guild and consolidate all the bad players (Not that you are). Either way, it then brings GvG to PvE! Which, I’m really surprised you figured that out so fast, GJ.

Either way, the game is going ever further down hill. When 1 or 2 people can derail what 40+ players are doing, it’s not a good design. I thought Anet would learn but, they just keep enabling grieving.

You are naive, my friend.

What are you doing that is being derailed by 1-2 players?

dlonie.6547:

You are naive, my friend.

What are you doing that is being derailed by 1-2 players?

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Why do I have a feeling that you’re talking about farming a certain ill-designed event…

Yes, presently it’s the CS event. Though these same players have been grieving every other popular social event in game. Especially if there’s a monetary gain from the event. Gold layer Boss Blitz’s were trolled daily. Then WvW siege trolls driving us nuts. Nothing we can do about it and it never get’s resolved by Anet. An entire map queue can report the player and send in screen caps. Nothing ever comes of it. That’s why if the dev’s don’t want the responsibility, then go Wild West with it and empower the players. Can’t make anything worse than it is now. And, it can easily be reverted if it doesn’t work. At least it’s trying something.

Anyone have a better suggestion other than not playing at all?

Well that was a funny read. Trolling people isn’t a smart thing (no matter the case), but creating a thread because some people are “trolling” your farm (by doing something intended) and you want to gank them ?
…

Wait actually, this could be funny.
Imagine for a second : a zerg is farming sort of afk, only spamming 1, when out of nowhere 20 players who are bent on killing them appears. Now that’s something that can be funny.

DeWolfe.2174:

Anyone have a better suggestion other than not playing at all?

Not exploiting events in CS might be a good start.

chemiclord.3978:

DeWolfe.2174:

Anyone have a better suggestion other than not playing at all?

Not exploiting events in CS might be a good start.

Pretty much this. They’re not grieving you, they’re playing the game.

That’s a pretty clear stance from ANet on the topic of failing events to get gold. I don’t think they’re gonna be very sympathetic to your complaint, the reports, the screenshots, or anything else. They’re being kinda kitteny, but you’re kinda exploiting.

This would be worse than dueling. Though I am for dueling. This allows more griefing without an option to say no or stop it. At least dueling allows people to deny.

Unless you want to add a flag function, Which again can and may just make it another WvW thing in PvE zones which isn’t the point of dueling either.

lol there are no grievers in PvE. What there is are people playing a game that they paid for and a bunch of kitten farmers who are constantly upset that they can’t easily exploit bad game design for profit…

This could work on the forums too!

If enough players ‘attack’ the thread. The thread is deleted. That way the community can remove troll posts, clutter and stupid ideas.

Let’s start with this thread…

If defeated players also drop something from their inventory for every attacking player, I’m all into it — a long as they add an item to the gemstore to make you immune to such attacks.

Jokes aside, a feature like this would just give the trolls more options to troll. If someone is really griefing, you can just report him. If the reports are justified some action will be taken eventually.

Hate to say it, but the best solution here is just pointing out to Anet content that is vulnerable to being trolled/grieved and hope that they make it better. Trolls troll because they can and it’s easy – simple as that. If you take away their options to troll, then they’ll find some other place to do it that’s hopefully nowhere near you.

dlonie.6547:

chemiclord.3978:

DeWolfe.2174:

Anyone have a better suggestion other than not playing at all?

Not exploiting events in CS might be a good start.

Pretty much this. They’re not grieving you, they’re playing the game.

That’s a pretty clear stance from ANet on the topic of failing events to get gold. I don’t think they’re gonna be very sympathetic to your complaint, the reports, the screenshots, or anything else. They’re being kinda kitteny, but you’re kinda exploiting.

Don’t waste your time Dave, this quote has been brought up before and the people who want to abuse the event act like Colin never said anything and pointedly ignore this post when it gets quoted.

DeWolfe.2174:

dlonie.6547:

You are naive, my friend.

What are you doing that is being derailed by 1-2 players?

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Why do I have a feeling that you’re talking about farming a certain ill-designed event…

Yes, presently it’s the CS event. Though these same players have been grieving every other popular social event in game. Especially if there’s a monetary gain from the event. Gold layer Boss Blitz’s were trolled daily. Then WvW siege trolls driving us nuts. Nothing we can do about it and it never get’s resolved by Anet. An entire map queue can report the player and send in screen caps. Nothing ever comes of it. That’s why if the dev’s don’t want the responsibility, then go Wild West with it and empower the players. Can’t make anything worse than it is now. And, it can easily be reverted if it doesn’t work. At least it’s trying something.

Anyone have a better suggestion other than not playing at all?

Because completing the event isn’t doing anything wrong. You can’t report someone for playing the game, and continuing to pretend that you aren’t doing anything wrong participating in deliberately failing an event when not only was an official post made about this behavior the first time it happened but has been quoted in these discussions repeatedly isn’t helping your case.

Substance E.4852:

lol there are no grievers in PvE. What there is are people playing a game that they paid for and a bunch of kitten farmers who are constantly upset that they can’t easily exploit bad game design for profit…

Whoa, let’s turn that around right now. You have 30+ players wanting to do an event. Yet, 3-5 players are preventing that event from ever occurring. So that makes the 3-5 righteous in your eyes??? I’m looking at several of them right now and they are all known to have grieved the QD train and Boss Blitz. Now, what is the excuse for Boss Blitz? One individual in particular would run circles and aggro mobs (especially Boom Boom) to attempt to prevent Gold. How is that not grieving? How is a pattern of behavior against fellow players excused?

That’s why fine, let’s turn off the protection mechanism’s that coddle these players.

There are griefers, sure. But people trying to succeed at an event, whether people want to fail the event to farm it or not, are not griefers. In my experience event farmers are some of the most abusive people in the game. One time a guy called my a bot for trying to finish the Lyssa event that he was farming, told everyone to report me. I mean, I guess it was my fault for being a ranger and having the gall to stand still for a few seconds, but I think he missed the massive irony in that situation…

if they could drop their legendaries when dead, then its cool.

DeWolfe.2174:

Whoa, let’s turn that around right now. You have 30+ players wanting to do an event. Yet, 3-5 players are preventing that event from ever occurring. So that makes the 3-5 righteous in your eyes??? I’m looking at several of them right now and they are all known to have grieved the QD train and Boss Blitz. Now, what is the excuse for Boss Blitz? One individual in particular would run circles and aggro mobs (especially Boom Boom) to attempt to prevent Gold. How is that not grieving? How is a pattern of behavior against fellow players excused?

That’s why fine, let’s turn off the protection mechanism’s that coddle these players.

Completing an event (i.e. playing the game its intended way) will NEVER be considered griefing, no matter how many people are waiting for it to fail so they can jump on their gold farming shortcut train.

That is FAR different than intentionally dragging boss mobs together in order to make an event fail, and to try and compare the two is disingenuous at best.

You are 100% in the wrong here.

Deal with it.

chemiclord.3978:

Deal with it.

Sounds like he can’t, hence this thread.
lol

DeWolfe.2174:

Substance E.4852:

lol there are no grievers in PvE. What there is are people playing a game that they paid for and a bunch of kitten farmers who are constantly upset that they can’t easily exploit bad game design for profit…

Whoa, let’s turn that around right now. You have 30+ players wanting to do an event. Yet, 3-5 players are preventing that event from ever occurring. So that makes the 3-5 righteous in your eyes??? I’m looking at several of them right now and they are all known to have grieved the QD train and Boss Blitz. Now, what is the excuse for Boss Blitz? One individual in particular would run circles and aggro mobs (especially Boom Boom) to attempt to prevent Gold. How is that not grieving? How is a pattern of behavior against fellow players excused?

That’s why fine, let’s turn off the protection mechanism’s that coddle these players.

lol complaining about QD champ train getting “derailed” is exactly what I’m talking about. You aren’t entitled to a clean, neat stream of effortless events.

The boss blitz was a completely different issue than what you are complaining about and don’t even try to act like it is.

It’s like you are taking people who defend points in Edge of the Mists and saying they are the same as people who intentionally waste supply by building rams inside of keeps and throw ballistas in front of gates to prevent ram placements in WvW.

One is people playing the game as intended which conflicts with people’s attempts at exploiting bad game design for profit. The other is people obviously being kittens on purpose.

I can see it now, groups of PKers roaming low level areas and demanding protection money from newbies / outright murdering them. Truly a genius idea!

Ok, let’s kick this up a notch with pattern of behavior. Here’s a screenshot from earlier today. Please explain this behavior as not grieving?

Here’s the quote, “So you can find another flow but we will probably find you there too.” Hence, this is simply not two differing groups with differing outcomes desired meeting once. This is one small group systematically chasing another group and imposing their desired outcome upon them. Please tell me how that’s not grieving? Please tell me that’s not the same as purposefully derailing any train or event like Boss Blitz?

No, I am not in the wrong. The general rule of GW2 is play how you want. You may not like others earning an income from farming but, that doesn’t give you the right to enforce your (your being the keyword) point of view of how the game should be played. Especially if you intentionally chase other players to take away how they wish to play. In this scenario, players should be able to defend themselves from bullies.

Roo.2037:

I can see it now, groups of PKers roaming low level areas and demanding protection money from newbies / outright murdering them. Truly a genius idea!

Ok, I did state “enough” players. Hence the number would have to be substantial like 40-50 for example. Which, you would not see that many grievers gathered together. Probably isn’t that many in the whole game. It would allow open world GvG though.

Not going to weigh in on the CS issue, but the OP’s proposal is not a good solution.. to, well, anything. No matter the number required, there would be more trolling and griefing if the proposal were implemented than the OP hopes to prevent. Developers should always be saying to themselves, “Any system in an online game that can be abused, will be abused.” Players might keep that in mind when making suggestions, also.

DeWolfe.

Listen to me. Read these words very slowly if you have to.

It doesn’t matter what they say as long as they are not obscene. They are playing the game AS INTENDED. You (and your farmers) are NOT. They are not, and never will be, considered griefing for playing the game precisely as it was intended. If anyone is griefing, it is YOU, for trying to intentionally fail events.

You are in the wrong. And Arena.net will show you no sympathy for that very reason. Just stop while you’re behind.

DeWolfe.2174:

Ok, I did state “enough” players. Hence the number would have to be substantial like 40-50 for example. Which, you would not see that many grievers gathered together

God help you if you ever pick up EvE Online…

chemiclord.3978:

DeWolfe.

Listen to me. Read these words very slowly if you have to.

It doesn’t matter what they say as long as they are not obscene. They are playing the game AS INTENDED. You (and your farmers) are NOT. They are not, and never will be, considered griefing for playing the game precisely as it was intended. If anyone is griefing, it is YOU, for trying to intentionally fail events.

You are in the wrong. And Arena.net will show you no sympathy for that very reason. Just stop while you’re behind.

They have their heads in the sand man. Colin’s post has been quoted for them multiple times, they just continue posting as if it doesn’t exist.

DeWolfe.2174:

Once again, and dueling thread pops up. Well, I have a counter offer that goes a little bit into Dueling. It actually kill’s two birds with one stone. How about an unfriendly fire state? Where if enough players target another player, we turn red and can attack the target and the target can respond in kind? This gives a taste of dueling and finally empowers the community to take care of trolls. Because Anet has gives us next to nothing to handle grievers.

If Anet isn’t going to protect the players, then they should empower us so we can protect ourselves.

I don’t know how you grief in PvE in the first place. I usually hear this from farmers who are angry at players who actually want to play the game the way they want to. All I see coming from this is zurgs punishing normal players for not hopping on the farm train.

The honor system never works. You’ll learn this when you grow up.

DeWolfe.2174:

Ok, I did state “enough” players. Hence the number would have to be substantial like 40-50 for example.

Like, you know, a farming train?

The (very valid) point about how people completing the event are just playing the game as intended and thus will never face sanction for their actions aside, I cannot support the OP’s suggestion because of the potential for griefing it creates.

What this game REALLY needs are in-game GMs that are empowered to immediately deal with trolls and griefers on the spot via kicks or temp bans. I’d bet a lot more people would be on their best behaviour if they can’t be certain whether or not there’s a secret GM in their overflow watching what they’re doing or saying. (And if the GMs are ever found abusing their powers, they ALSO get a permanent ban.)

The only way people completing events would even possibly get a ban is if they used abusive language after they did it. Personally I don’t even see how the farmers are even trying to report people, what does that ticket look like, “I was repeating the shelter’s gate event over and over (like you guys don’t want us to do) and someone came and finished it then was rude”?

Zaxares.5419:

The (very valid) point about how people completing the event are just playing the game as intended and thus will never face sanction for their actions aside, I cannot support the OP’s suggestion because of the potential for griefing it creates.

What this game REALLY needs are in-game GMs that are empowered to immediately deal with trolls and griefers on the spot via kicks or temp bans. I’d bet a lot more people would be on their best behaviour if they can’t be certain whether or not there’s a secret GM in their overflow watching what they’re doing or saying. (And if the GMs are ever found abusing their powers, they ALSO get a permanent ban.)

Agreed! I’ve been in several other games that utilized in-game moderators rather effectively. If a problem was brought to a moderator’s attention, he or she could deal with it in the appropriate fashion. Perhaps something like this would be more effective in GW2 rather than OP’s awkward suggestion.

If one was truly trolling people in the game and the moderator got wind of it, perhaps the moderator could then temporarily mute or kick someone from that specific overflow. If a moderator was found to be abusing his or her powers by ANet, perhaps that would be a bannable offence.

OP came up with terrible reasons to implement a bad idea.

It’s hilarious that OP thinks completing an event is griefing, then comes up with a “solution” to have 40-50 players target a player in order to kill them. Sounds more like OP is trying to grief.

Disingenuous post is disingenuous. This would never be released in this game. However asking for it to be released highlights the farmer problem that exists in this game. Farmers are not better than other people. They’re not more entitled than other people. And they don’t get to decide how to play the game.

Events were made by Anet to be completed. If you decide you want to farm them, and no one else shows up who wants to complete them all well and good.

But the second someone shows up who wants to play the game as intended,. and you try to stop them, you’re the troll.

I’m simply speechless .. don’t even know what to respond to that .. lol

This idea sounds like a griefer that wants another way to grief. /rolleyes

The WoW episode of South Park comes to mind after reading this.

DeWolfe.2174:

Now, what is the excuse for Boss Blitz? One individual in particular would run circles and aggro mobs (especially Boom Boom) to attempt to prevent Gold. How is that not grieving?

The fact that doing that in Boss Blitz actually didn’t do anything. I’m not even sure in what way you think it might have prevented Gold.
(edit: oh, you mean normal mobs. yeah, that might have worked on some bosses)

Well, it doesn’t mean there are no griefers in PvE – there are quite a lot of them, in fact.

The OP’s idea is still dumb, and instead of combatting griefing would only promote it. Especially considering the specific reason why he wants it to be implemented.

Astralporing.1957:

DeWolfe.2174:

Now, what is the excuse for Boss Blitz? One individual in particular would run circles and aggro mobs (especially Boom Boom) to attempt to prevent Gold. How is that not grieving?

The fact that doing that in Boss Blitz actually didn’t do anything. I’m not even sure in what way you think it might have prevented Gold.
(edit: oh, you mean normal mobs. yeah, that might have worked on some bosses)

Well, it doesn’t mean there are no griefers in PvE – there are quite a lot of them, in fact.

The OP’s idea is still dumb, and instead of combatting griefing would only promote it. Especially considering the specific reason why he wants it to be implemented.

Correct, you aggro the normal mobs and run them into the players while they are focused on the boss. This was especially effective at Boom Boom. There were multiple threads and replies to this issue. [TTS] was targeted frequently as they were very successful at achieving Gold.Though leeching and botting was also a large problem due to the poor event design.

Please do list any other suggestion? Outside of one person adding to the conversation by mentioning GM’s, the rest of the replies add nothing to the conversation of preventing large socially organized groups from being grieved.

If a few people can grief a large event, that’s a flaw with the event. If the problem were as big as you are claiming it is, the entire open world would have been ground to a crippling halt due to malicious players. Last I checked, it wasn’t.

Your solution to enable friendly fire is trying to solve a small rodent infestation by detonating a nuclear bomb. Sure, it might stamp out one problem but the collateral damage and fallout makes you wonder why you didn’t just set up some mouse traps.

DeWolfe.2174:

Please do list any other suggestion? Outside of one person adding to the conversation by mentioning GM’s, the rest of the replies add nothing to the conversation of preventing large socially organized groups from being grieved.

In normal situation, it’s up to Anet to change the event so that griefing is either impossible, or harder to do. In your case, there’s no chance of it happening, because people griefing you do it by playing the content as it was meant to be played. In every single such case up to date, when Anet intervened it was to make the event non-farmable. Are you sure you want that?

Here’s how kittening too much about people not failing an event is going to work out for you : Anet is going to end up nerfing your event.

They can do so by completely changing the event or simply giving the event a 30 minute reset time if failed.

DeWolfe.2174:

Whoa, let’s turn that around right now. You have 30+ players wanting to do an event. Yet, 3-5 players are preventing that event from ever occurring. So that makes the 3-5 righteous in your eyes??? I’m looking at several of them right now and they are all known to have grieved the QD train and Boss Blitz. Now, what is the excuse for Boss Blitz? One individual in particular would run circles and aggro mobs (especially Boom Boom) to attempt to prevent Gold. How is that not grieving? How is a pattern of behavior against fellow players excused?

That’s why fine, let’s turn off the protection mechanism’s that coddle these players.

Well, unlike some overly lawful-aligned people in the thread calling you “100% wrong”, I agree with you to some extent. You could say the people who intentionally try to ruin the farm are “just playing the game”, but really, they’re being bad people.

If I saw a large group farming an event, I would not go out of my way to ruin their farming. I think that’s human decency. Doesn’t matter if the farming is “not intended by the developers.” Even if I were the hypothetical “pure player” that just wants to complete the event, I think it would be more civilized for me to let the farmers be, move on elsewhere, and successfully complete some other event.

That said, your proposal is a terrible idea (unless you like open world PvP, which could be fun…), it would be a godsend to bandit/gangster wannabes. You would be turning the game world into Mad Max, just so you can kill some dudes who caused a disruption in the supermarket checkout. Something like that.

In this case, I’d say the farmers just have to put up with the event-succeeders; you’re acting against “state” policy, so to speak, so you cannot really expect help from the devs. They’ll probably nerf your farm sometime anyway.

Vayne.8563:

Disingenuous post is disingenuous. This would never be released in this game. However asking for it to be released highlights the farmer problem that exists in this game. Farmers are not better than other people. They’re not more entitled than other people. And they don’t get to decide how to play the game.

Events were made by Anet to be completed. If you decide you want to farm them, and no one else shows up who wants to complete them all well and good.

But the second someone shows up who wants to play the game as intended,. and you try to stop them, you’re the troll.

You should see what they’ve been doing to try and stop a certain event in Cursed Shore from being completed by players.

Their tactics include: standing next to the capture circle to scale up all the monsters, or even rounding up monsters and pulling them into the circle to try and wipe the defenders. Then – and this is the best part – these people call the defenders “trolls” or “griefers” – I mean, really?

unicorngirl.1487:

Vayne.8563:

Disingenuous post is disingenuous. This would never be released in this game. However asking for it to be released highlights the farmer problem that exists in this game. Farmers are not better than other people. They’re not more entitled than other people. And they don’t get to decide how to play the game.

Events were made by Anet to be completed. If you decide you want to farm them, and no one else shows up who wants to complete them all well and good.

But the second someone shows up who wants to play the game as intended,. and you try to stop them, you’re the troll.

You should see what they’ve been doing to try and stop a certain event in Cursed Shore from being completed by players.

Their tactics include: standing next to the capture circle to scale up all the monsters, or even rounding up monsters and pulling them into the circle to try and wipe the defenders. Then – and this is the best part – these people call the defenders “trolls” or “griefers” – I mean, really?

Well, to be honest, some of those people are griefers (meaning, they do complete those events only to cause grief to other players, not because they are interested in the event itself). This does not change the fact, that completing events is the natural, expected gameplay. Failing them in order to farm is not.

Astralporing.1957:

Well, to be honest, some of those people are griefers (meaning, they do complete those events only to cause grief to other players, not because they are interested in the event itself). This does not change the fact, that completing events is the natural, expected gameplay. Failing them in order to farm is not.

By the spirit of the term, yes… they are “griefing”, in the sense that they are deliberately interfering with how someone else wants to play the game.

However, Arena.net will NEVER consider playing the game as intended to be “griefing”, and will not give anybody intentionally failing events sympathy if someone else is disrupting that fail train.

So yes, DeWolfe is 100% in the wrong. He, and other CS farmers are effectively exploiting the Plix event, and Arena.net has said repeatedly that is not an approved method of play. They are far more likely to look at the people intentionally failing the event as the griefers than anyone trying to complete it.

I don’t think we’ll see something like boss blitz again mainly because of how easy it was for people to deliberately mes up the gold runs. It was however a limited option in the game and isn’t really the reason we are having this discussion. This discussion is happening because farmers want to abuse events and have a method available to stop players from completing them. If it is actual griefing like what was happening with Boss Blitz active GMs would be a good way to solve the problem since there would now be someone present to immediately check out the situation and boot the character. WvW is a much more complicated issue and we just learned to live with siege trolls and spy accounts watching commander tags (talking about Maguuma here, sad to see it happen but it did), a GM could immediately check their pms and see if they are communicating with someone, although that can easily be countered by being in their voice server.

DeWolfe.2174:

Please do list any other suggestion? Outside of one person adding to the conversation by mentioning GM’s, the rest of the replies add nothing to the conversation of preventing large socially organized groups from being grieved.

It’s true that there isn’t much way to deal with real griefing going on (easy example: people who take over turrets at Tequatl and refuse to actually use them, just firing into the ground next to their turret throughout the event instead of spearing Teq or clearing poison). Outside of reporting such players, there’s not a whole lot players can do about this kind of thing. Nor should their be; as frustrating as that is to think about, any mechanic that could be added that would enable players to moderate the activity of other players would always, inevitably be used for griefing and trolling more consistently than it would dealing with trolls and griefers. Instead of preventing this kind of behavior it would only enable worse forms of the same.

This is, of course, beside the point when the request is brought about by someone who encourages exploiting a game design flaw for personal gain over playing the game as intended and rather selfishly insists he should be able to remove players who disagree with his philosophy on how to play from the game.

You are exactly the kind of person who should never have powers over another player.