Guild Wars 2

Amadan.9451:

…
your presence alone doesn’t make any difference, you cannot run alone unless you are a thief, you spend effort, time and money on keeping towers and 10 minutes later are gone.

I beg to differ, being a solo-roaming Ranger (not a BM, btw) that nearly single-handely forced a server to patrol their dolyaks, as they were “disappearing” from the map quite fast (ie, no single dolyak reached its destination in more than an hour, even after they upgraded their camps) while being outmanned. Even then, some dolyaks didn’t make it.

And then a warrior joined.. and camps started flipping.

It was quite fun

I’m sure my story is not unique. Even a small group of player doing a suicide attack on a keep or garrison with a WP so it becomes contested can help their server preventing the enemy from regrouping effectively.

ilr.9675:

Wanze.8410:

I think the wvw community can do alot more to make new players feel welcome and important.

A big plus-ONE to this. ….ALL of the WvW players in this thread,
who keep Writing off PvE’ers, NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS

There’s a flaw in this tho.

Not in the training ppl ofc (we did it on SFR when needed), but the problem is that you’re talking about a “wvw community” – which is server dependant.

Nobody in the “WvW community” here can say “We’ll do it” cause it’s your server WvW community you need to talk with.

To feel like I’m actually making a difference (The WvW bonuses aren’t really noticed)

I went to WvW one time to complete a monthly, and it basically consisted of running around taking keeps, and fighting enemy servers. (obviously) This was cool, but it seems like keeps are taken so fast, as soon as you leave your borderlands, the enemy takes them all back in an instant. Kind of seemed like those 3+ hours spent fighting in the YB’s borderlands were kind of pointless.

Compared to pre toa daoc, there was a good reason for PvErs to go to RvR..

1. Darkness Falls – One of the best exp, and money making areas at the time, and it was an open dungeon for mid to max level players, but you had to own the majority of keeps in RvR to have it open. best of all, a group of players who wanted to get DF open could plan a strategic attack on a keep, and open the dungeon open for the whole realm.

2. due to the risk of being killed by players, some of the best exp areas in the game were in RvR zones, as well as nice areas to gather materials for some crafts.

3. Relics, and realm unity – relics were a big thing in daoc, and if a realm was having a go at one of your relics, you knew it. There were alliances in daoc that would report when large numbers were attacking their keep, and if it was over 100+ on one keep, they are most likely preparing to go for your relic. Plus, it took a while to take keeps, so people had enough time to wrap up what they were doing, and go defend.

Not saying GW2 should do anything like that, because it’s a different game, and things wouldn’t work the same, but in GW2, I sort of feel like WvW is pointless when I’m out there.

Right now it seems like WvW is only for those who like WvW for the sake of WvWing. (if anyone understands what I mean by that, lol)

I really would like some single player dungeons added for those moment none of my friends are online (which happens quite often actually). And since endgame content more and more focusses on skins: male human magic users should really have the opportunity to look like Gandalf (tall, beard, robes, hat, etc).

colesy.8490:

No, WvW players are sick of PvE people doing the following:

1. Taking up spaces that actual players could be using because they’re just mindlessly following the tag to get badges for their lolgendaries

2. Depending on the server I guess, but not getting on the godkitten teamspeak. Commanders can’t waste time using map chat for decisions that need to be communicated in a split second in the heat of battle, so if you can’t hear what they’re saying, you’ll probably end up getting killed and therefore, not being helpful to the zerg.

And yet, when I read threads by PvE players complaining about PvE elements requiring them to go into WvW, the thread always gets replies from PvP players that basically say “Carebears need to grow a pair and learn to play the real game”.

Well, here we are. Today, I took a warrior into the JP to get the kite that they stuck there. Saw some enemies. Didn’t even try to fight them. They didn’t try to fight me. No PvP at all, just PvE players taking up your precious WvW space. Later, I took my brand new level 4 charr ranger into WvW to get him the wolf pet (can’t get anywhere else). Only level 4, and I actually removed his weapons and ran around unarmed. And once again, doing this only because it’s the only way to achieve some PvE goals.

I don’t play WvW, nor do I want to. Small scale PvP might appeal to me, but large scale is completely unfun to me. I’m sure I’m not the only one. And yet, there we are, clogging up your zone and taking away some of your fun. Why? Because ANet likes it like that, and apparently so do a lot of PvPers.

When PvEers are forced into a PvP zone, they don’t automatically become PvP players. We’re still PvEers, and we’ll act like it. We’ll do what we’re there for, and if we help you or hurt you most likely doesn’t matter at all to what we’re there for. We both want that to stop, but it always seems like calls for the vP and vE games to be seperated get shot down by PvP players.

…wow. Bitter rambling. That was a bit of a vent, but I think I’ll let it stand.

Solo.9027:

You can’t really enjoy the complexities of fighting another human being if a simple scripted A.I. still gives you a hard time.

Strict pve’ers are people still enjoying the tutorial, in my opinion. Theres nothing wrong with that once you realize it for what it is.

Whatever makes you feel good about yourself. I, however, don’t need to denigrate other people preferences by claiming I have been enlightened, “made the grade”, and “graduated” towards PvP, as if PvE was training wheels for “the real game.” I know I am good (I like myself without needing anyone’s approval) thus I have no desire or will to “make my skills a point” by competing against others on PvP (or even caring about PvE achievements.)

If you believe PvE people “suck at GW2” because they don’t love PvP as you do, you are gravely mistaken-and as I mentioned, there are plenty of players who excel at both (why do they keep playing PvE, if it’s supposed to be “training wheels” for the “real”, unscripted GW2 gameplay?)

Star Ace.5207:

Solo.9027:

You can’t really enjoy the complexities of fighting another human being if a simple scripted A.I. still gives you a hard time.

Strict pve’ers are people still enjoying the tutorial, in my opinion. Theres nothing wrong with that once you realize it for what it is.

Whatever makes you feel good about yourself. I, however, don’t need to denigrate other people preferences by claiming I have been enlightened, “made the grade”, and “graduated” towards PvP, as if PvE was training wheels for “the real game.” I know I am good (I like myself without needing anyone’s approval) thus I have no desire or will to “make my skills a point” by competing against others on PvP (or even caring about PvE achievements.)

If you believe PvE people “suck at GW2” because they don’t love PvP as you do, you are gravely mistaken-and as I mentioned, there are plenty of players who excel at both (why do they keep playing PvE, if it’s supposed to be “training wheels” for the “real”, unscripted GW2 gameplay?)

I honestly don’t see how what I said was insulting to you but I can see why you don’t pvp by how personally you took it.

When I pve its because its more rewarded and because it helps me try out new attack patterns without fear of dying. Why do you think the most hardcore pve dungeon/fractal runners use full berserker gear/builds?

Anet has even been getting praise lately for their latest take on pve dungeons that break from convention because the old way is tired and people are ready for something new, isn’t that why most people leave other MMO’s for this game in the first place?

This game has a great combat system and I really think you are missing out on a large portion of the depth of it if you only pve. Life lessons can often come from stepping out of your comfort zone, even in something as trivial as going from pve to pvp in some videogame.

Idk about getting excited, but they way some pvpers treat someone who is new to pvp is enough to put you off ever doing it again, so perhaps if pvpers need more peeps, try being nicer to new players who join.

PvE players moaning about having to go to wvw for legendery crafting dont worry no more, badges on achievement chests

I play a lot of both PvE and WvW, but honestly the thing that keeps me from going hardcore into WvW is the zerg mentality that servers have in general. I love running with organized and small groups. The level of strategy and particular type of group coordination there is something you don’t find in either PvE or PvP.

But when you roll up against a server with a 50-man zerg and it just destroys your framerate and skill lag runs rampant, that isn’t fun. It’s also not strategical in the slightest. Once Anet goes forward with the anti-zerg ideas I think they’ve mentioned in the past, I’m sure I’ll be even more interested.

Vayne.8563:

Dedlaw.9130:

Vayne.8563:

PvE’ers are trying to be like Frodo

A whimpering weakling who constantly needs to be babysitted?

I guess you didn’t read the book.

Well OP this happens to be another example as to why PVEers typically don’t hang out with PVP crowds and it’s NOT what Vayne has posted here it’s the other quote by Dedlaw. If you’re going to be that callous then you won’t be successful in helping your PVE friends get involved and have a good time in the WvW environment, joke or no joke.

Ricky Da Man.5064:

PvE players moaning about having to go to wvw for legendery crafting dont worry no more, badges on achievement chests

Now to just remove the pesky need to explore the WvWvW side of the maps and we can get a proper map completion going.

Ricky Da Man.5064:

PvE players moaning about having to go to wvw for legendery crafting dont worry no more, badges on achievement chests

They still have to because they still haven’t fixed the 100% world exploration to not be like Aion and include a forced PVP experience. Until that happens it will still be required.

It’s a very poor design to require players to perform a task they don’t want to in order to reach a goal and it’s certainly not a play-your-way design.

tigirius.9014:

It’s a very poor design to require players to perform a task they don’t want to in order to reach a goal and it’s certainly not a play-your-way design.

Said like that, any goal in the game should be done after the player do a task they decide themselves.

“Hey ANet, I want to be the owner of every Legendary in the game and the task for that is for me to say “Noob” in LA’s map chat. Hurry up I’m doing it in 10 minutes"

tigirius.9014:

Ricky Da Man.5064:

PvE players moaning about having to go to wvw for legendery crafting dont worry no more, badges on achievement chests

They still have to because they still haven’t fixed the 100% world exploration to not be like Aion and include a forced PVP experience. Until that happens it will still be required.

It’s a very poor design to require players to perform a task they don’t want to in order to reach a goal and it’s certainly not a play-your-way design.

Trust me no participation in pvp is needed in any way shape or form to complete map completion on these maps

Hmm I have somewhat re-evaluated my stance.

I would consider entering WvW if the following changes were made:

Add crowding, After 10 people are in a short radius, attacks begin to miss – more and more as the number grows. This is to prevent zerging.

In-game leaderboards of showing current status. i.e. when I look at the WvW panel, there should be a list of people there with # of kills – so I can see how I am performing in comparison. Preferably, everyones number will be set to 0 for me when I enter, so the numbers are comparable.

Remove arrow carts and the other things you make (I forget the names). Make taking a keep more about PvP and using your professions skills. Keep a gate there, but make it killable with regular attacks.

Add in Artifacts (or whatever you want to call them) which are temporary weapons that provide special and powerful skills. Keep these in secret areas (such as at the end of JPs)

Remove or reduce repair costs.

Either remove mobs or make them useful. Don’t have a bunch of easy to kill packs of wolves. Remove them and add in 1 champion golem. If you are solo you can attempt to lure the golem onto groups passing by.

That’s all I can think of atm.

I want to see random karka raids wreck zergs.

Ricky Da Man.5064:

tigirius.9014:

Ricky Da Man.5064:

PvE players moaning about having to go to wvw for legendery crafting dont worry no more, badges on achievement chests

They still have to because they still haven’t fixed the 100% world exploration to not be like Aion and include a forced PVP experience. Until that happens it will still be required.

It’s a very poor design to require players to perform a task they don’t want to in order to reach a goal and it’s certainly not a play-your-way design.

Trust me no participation in pvp is needed in any way shape or form to complete map completion on these maps

I think I understand what you’re trying to say here… and it’s ridiculous. PvP does not begin when you or your opponent actually begin knocking one another’s HP off. PvP begins as soon as you enter an environment where another player can do that to you. The game of evasion and engagement is just as much a part of PvP as actually killing enemy characters – otherwise, movement and speed enhancing powers wouldn’t be a balance point beyond the minimum necessary to go from Ranged Attacks to Melee Attacks. It doesn’t matter if I am a flawless spec-ops ninja ghost moving through the Eternal Battlegrounds. Even if I never encounter another player, it is PvP.

Also, please tell me how I can get Green’s corner of EB right now without fighting other players. It is looking likely to take me three weeks minimum to complete that map, when the biggest PvE map in the game has never taken more than three hours at a very leisurely pace.

Melchior.2135:

Ricky Da Man.5064:

tigirius.9014:

Ricky Da Man.5064:

PvE players moaning about having to go to wvw for legendery crafting dont worry no more, badges on achievement chests

They still have to because they still haven’t fixed the 100% world exploration to not be like Aion and include a forced PVP experience. Until that happens it will still be required.

It’s a very poor design to require players to perform a task they don’t want to in order to reach a goal and it’s certainly not a play-your-way design.

Trust me no participation in pvp is needed in any way shape or form to complete map completion on these maps

I think I understand what you’re trying to say here… and it’s ridiculous. Having to move through an envirnoment where other players can kill me is PvP. Having objectives sealed out of my reach until the players defending them have been driven off is PvP.

Even if I am some kind of flawless spec-ops ninja ghost bypassing all hostile player encounters, it requires a very different approach to bypassing PvE encounters. The gameplay of evasion and engagement of other players is just as much PvP as actually knocking someone else’kitten points off.

And even in such a scenario my fortune is still tied entirely to the PvP prowess (or superior numbers) of the rest of my server. There are parts of the WvW map that my server will never claim, unless the roll of the dice puts us up against someone absolutely terrible. So waiting until WvW rotation puts our starting position in those map sections… would you describe that as “fun”?

If it is not fun then go play PvE and check daily if any objectives can be had.

I think in many cases, PvE oriented players simply prefer pve to any PvP/WvW. Having said that, first impressions of PvP/WvW are all important when new PvE players go out to give WvW a try, and far to often the impression is bad. Most recently is the WvW jumping puzzle for the kite achievement. A PvE player ventures into the JP only to get repeatedly ganked by which ever server has control at the moment
Maybe a new PvE player wanders out to start grabbing vistas etc in WvW only to get crushed by zergs or thieves

I think the key to getting PvE players a good first impression is to have them in a decent WvW group, voice chat, people with the patience to explain what is going on, let them know some decent specs/gear for their class etc. Unfortunatley all to often new players go out on their own and get crushed and never return

I’ve played a bit of WvW, but when you see that you are greatly outnumbered it’s limited how much you feel like dying to the same zerg over and over again.. You never know what you get when you jump into WvW. You might be lucky and have your server outnumbering the others, or that the servers are about the same amount of players, but I don’t feel like jumping around to the different WvW maps, looking for my server to be atleast equaly to the other servers..

Whoa there folks, slow down a sec …

Yes, there are lots of jerks in WvW (i don’t like the word “elitist”, because it assumes good player skills, and 99% of jerks are FAR from being skilled players, most are not even average). And yes, these teenagers and immature “adults” are often less than welcoming while tending to bark orders and blame everyone and anyone for a failure (other than themselves of course).

But let’s not get crazy and talk as if this is the NORM in WvW … because it is NOT. True, the jerk factor in WvW is somewhat higher than the jerk factor in PvE; because the very nature of WvW does tend to attract the dedicated griefer and/or egomaniac types. But these guys are certainly not limited to WvW or PvP. Trust me, I’ve run into a good big bunch of these kittens in PvE too, especially in dungeon runs.

Look guys, kids will be kids (and immature adults will be immature adults), but I’ve been at this game since launch, and these goofs are not the WvW majority, they are simply the fail minority; albeit, a loud and irritating one.

Not having to run 10 minutes to get back to where I was when I die.

I’ve attempted, twice, to get into WvW. I’d run along with a group, looks like it’s going good, but I’m accutely aware that we’ve been running for about 5-10 minutes. We then get slammed by another group, I die rather quickly, the rest of my force retreats…and looking around it doesn’t seem like anyone’s going to be able to fight back to my location, much less spend the “OMG-it-feels-like-and-likely-is-forever” time to rez me from defeated. So I go all the way back to the waypoint and, since most of them seemed to escape, I’m running all by myself all the way back to generally where the force was, feeling like another 5-10 minutes of just running. I get intercepted by another enemy group and, because I’m new, I get slaughtered easily despite being a Guardian.

So I waypoint back and begin running again all by myself…then I stop and have an epiphany. This running back 5-10 minutes thing every time I die…just doesn’t feel fun or interesting or something I begrudgingly want to deal with, and I’ll likely be doing it over and over and over and over again because I’m really not that good at fighting other players (I’m heavily a support-style person).

So I stopped trying to get into it. I don’t go around slamming WvW or something like that and I fully wish you guys get all the fun new content and experiences they can throw at you, but it just isn’t for me and I don’t believe they could make any changes to entice me back for a significant amount of time that wouldn’t also ruin the existing reason why people like to play. So I stick to PvE…I barely have enough time to complete that section as it is.

Maybe some day it’ll click, but not now.

(Note: I never timed the runs back, but that’s what it felt like. And before anyone says anything, yes I know all about the “100% uptime swiftness” and such that makes it shorter. The second attempt, not mentioned here, even used a necro with Signet of the Locust slotted. It still feels long for me, and it’s really not enough. )

As a PvE player:
The lack of a “safety net” is not what’s putting me off. It’s more a combination of different things.

Repair cost:
Fine, it’s not much. But In WvW I’m expected (and expect to) die a lot of times.

Keeping up with the zerg:
Even if you’re with the zerg, if you’re at the end you could loose out on a lot action.

Roaming:
Suddenly finding yourself in the middle of an enemy zerg isn’t fun. This was a problem with culling, it is fixed now but the memories persist :p

Movement:
If you die you have to run from home base every time, so much wasted time traveling, and boring to boot.

Builds:
Builds for PvE and WvW are not the same, and it’s terribly annoying to respec all the time. I urge ANet to look at Rift. Their “roles” and “wardrobe” system is nice.

Personal reward:
PvE does this way better.

Team rewards:
What does taking a tower mean? That you can pump out your guild buffs from it? How exciting.
What does capping an entire boarder lands / battlegrounds mean? Nothing. Maybe if a full cap meant 30 min lock or something, something that was tangible.
The minor buffs to PvE play is so insignificant, it’s not like I look at the tower symbol and go “holy smokes, +10% for additional harvest, time to chopping!”

BUT! Maybe most of these that are issues for me is what makes it fun for other people? And neither of us would be wrong. But WvW is fun for them and PvE is fun for me, so I’ll just stay in PvE.

I used to be excited about WvW, sadly my server was locked for months in tier with server that all the time was getting atleast twice the score we did. They had zergs going no matter which map i chosen. So after losing over and over and over again my excitement about WvW died completely. I know we have random matchups now and its supposed to be better but its to little to late for me. What would Anet have to do to get me interested again? Go back in time and fix it faster so i won’t feel about WvW as i do now.

WvW reminds me of medieval battles where you just toss bodies at a fight and hope for the best. There is very little strategy when you are simply out numbered by troop zerg. What little possible strategies that do exist are really only there for the select few. I don’t mind doing it for a change of pace, but I typical shy away from the madness and run small groups.

Medieval battles had more strategy than WvW.

As a player who does both PvE and WvWvW on occasion, I can tell you one thing that needs to change more then anything to get more people interested in it.

A change of attitude on both sides.
PvEers would need to stop taking things so personally. That’s not easy for some people though, as it can be argued that anybody that plays a video game gets rather invested in it, and doesn’t want to ‘lose’.
The PvE game lets them keep things under their control… something that happens a /lot/ less in PvP.

Conversely, some PvPers need to stop being a bunch of elitist, self absorbed jerkwads. I can only assume that the majority of the people who PvP are not like that, but if so, then the minority that are, are the loudest, most obnoxious bunch of griefers out there who get off making others feel worthless and making dang sure that everyone they come across knows just how big their little kittens are…
Is that saying there are not such people on the PvE side? Hardly. But it’s a /lot/ easier to get away from someone like that in PvE, rather then in PvP.

Personally, years of experience on multiple games have left me cold to the ‘plight’ of hardcore PvPers. The worse experiences I have had have involved ‘leet’ PvPers who literally acted like 12 year olds with tourettes syndrome, spewing obscenities and sending me page after page of how much I sucked regardless of if they won or lost the fight.

In short, as long as internet tough guys and elitists are going to make any environment into an endless ocean of hostility (PvP or otherwise) then people that don’t feel like being mistreated are not going to be interested.

I didn’t read the thread yet because I’m “using the bathroom” at work, but me and a coworker, he pves and I wvw, was actually discussing the same thing, and we thought that if there were things like being able to make events like, a jormag spawn for your server to bust down an enemy keep while at the same time you got them spawning not a couple of vet Hyleks to take your camp , but like 100 of them to distract you by attacking smc it would be more pveish

I have many guildies who do PvE 90% of the time making money, farming dungeons, world events, fractal etc.
Do you remember when Colin said that WvW ranks would have reward people with “Lots of ectos”? Well, almost all my guildies were excited about it and couldn’t wait to rank up in WvW and obtain those ectos, then, as they saw there were no ectos for ranking up in wvw, they ignored it again, just like since release.
That said, I think that with better money reward and MUCH higher chance to drop rares/exotics and T6 materials, either form killing people and ranking up, PvEers would be much more pushed to play WvW and could appreciate how much fun it can bring to your game experience.

Instead of ramming down a gate to cap smc, it needs to be done like cof, u need to have a bunch of people stand in some bubbles and a couple other fight a controller to open the gate before you can now fight The Lord, which is now replaced with the champion grub

And the gate controller is protected by jormag, teq, and shatterer at the same time

But to help the offensive side, u guys can have trahearne, or whatever that slyvari guy from the story is called

I consider myself a primarily PvE player, though I do enjoy sPvP with some frequency.

Honestly, what it would take to get me interested in WvW is a change in tactics. I know that the zerg thing is pretty much accepted meta at this point; it’s easy, and extremely effective. However, it leads to extremely dull gameplay and certainly doesn’t endear itself to PvE players who are only in WvW to farm badges or get map completion. Turning a corner to get that last PoI and ending up nose-to-nose with a zerg is extremely frustrating, especially when the nearest uncontested waypoint is 3/4 of the way across the map.

Unfortunately, I can see no mechanic change that would alleviate the zerging mess, so for now, I’ll be sitting out of WvW. I’m glad there are people who like it as it is, I’m just not one of them.

I play both tPvP and PvE regularly and I have no desire to play WvW. The whole “follow the zerg” style of gameplay is simply not fun for me. My personal level of skill means little/nothing. I have no desire to spam my #1 attack in a crowd of 40 people. If I wanted that, I’d play WoW.

What ruin PvP and WvW is the attitude of the elitists, all that “i’m so kittening good” “haha, pwned noob” attitude.

aophts.9862:

What ruin PvP and WvW is the attitude of the elitists, all that “i’m so kittening good” “haha, pwned noob” attitude.

Gotta correct you here. I play a ton of PvP (both hot join and tourney) and the chat is friendly/cordial the vast majority of the time. In fact, the only people I see trash talking are those who play very poorly and want to justify their score of 0 through talk.

Craptrain.7203:

I play both tPvP and PvE regularly and I have no desire to play WvW. The whole “follow the zerg” style of gameplay is simply not fun for me. My personal level of skill means little/nothing. I have no desire to spam my #1 attack in a crowd of 40 people. If I wanted that, I’d play WoW.

^ what this guy said.

Follow commander [insert name here] going around and around in large groups, building and building; so tiresome and boring, no real display of personal skill. I do pve or tpvp only.

then another guy would say “oh but we do 5-man roaming teams ganking people” yeah..lot of good you’re doing, lol. if youre interested in 5v5 the tpvp is the place

what would get me interested? well there was a game waaaay back then where building their equivalent of siege and a display of player’s infantry skill mattered. whatever you did in that game mattered if you do it well. it was a 50v50 map war style mmo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasy_Earth:_Zero

imo, they got it right.

Hrm very interesting question.

Well I am not sure I know the answer yet, i will have to give it some more thought, but here is a little insight;

Many PvE’ers have already complained that they have to PvP in order to complete the Obsian Sanctum jumping puzzle.

So players that avoid PvP at all costs will risk it just to be able to participate in the jumping puzzle. Now I know much of the reason was to work towards the gift, but the premise is still there.. reward.

Personally I love all jumping puzzles so I wasn’t going to miss out on this one just because it was in a PvP zone.

I enjoyed the rush of some of the fights I had, and was not terribly discouraged when I was outnumbered and had to abandon my attempt at the puzzle. I’d say it was fun, but that didn’t convert me to a WvW regular.

I did try running with the zerg for a little while, and what I personally didn’t like about it was the anonimity. I didn’t feel like I was doing anything.

PvE’ers like to be the hero. That is why we repeat PvE content like dungeons and events because it makes us the hero. When you are in a big zerg, it is still cool at times to storm a keep or a castle, but the ‘hero’ feeling is diminished.

So I would say that if there was more roaming content. More content where small groups could impact the game in a significant way, that would get me in WvW more.

Bigger zerging, more “1 1 1” spamming, more unbalanced match ups.

Pair the lower tier servers with tier 1 servers for the maximum fun.

One thing PvErs need to consider is that wvw-ers don’t go to wvw for the reward. They go there for the experience itself, for the chance to kill someone, for the chance to be part of a tactical zerg, to coordinate on a large scale, to die for your server, etc. If anything, wvw is more of a time sink. So the less you spend thinking about rewards or what can be done better, just think of the fights or strategies or maneuvers to be had. Although if you really don’t like pvp/killing someone/being killed, then it’s no fault you won’t be interested in wvw.

Personally, I feel more pve objectives (like the frogs/moles/ogres in EB or the quaggan nodes) would help ease PvE players into wvw. They’ll see it as a pve quest, but will have a real impact on wvw itself.

penatbater.4710:

One thing PvErs need to consider is that wvw-ers don’t go to wvw for the reward. They go there for the experience itself, for the chance to kill someone, for the chance to be part of a tactical zerg, to coordinate on a large scale, to die for your server, etc. If anything, wvw is more of a time sink. So the less you spend thinking about rewards or what can be done better, just think of the fights or strategies or maneuvers to be had. Although if you really don’t like pvp/killing someone/being killed, then it’s no fault you won’t be interested in wvw.

Personally, I feel more pve objectives (like the frogs/moles/ogres in EB or the quaggan nodes) would help ease PvE players into wvw. They’ll see it as a pve quest, but will have a real impact on wvw itself.

Respectfully, you’re mistaken. This thread was directly to PvE’ers asking what it would take to get us into WvW on the regular.

You won’t do that by telling us we need to change our perspective on how we choose to play the game.

For the record, I do much of the PvE content for the fun of it as well. I like to kill swaths of zombies, I like to barge into inquest labs and break everything in sight, however the rewards we get from drops and events help as well.

Currently in WvW I don’t get rewards unless I follow the zerg around ‘tagging’ enemies. That isn’t a fun (to me) as fighting dragons, and killing hordes of centaur.

Your idea bout putting in more PvE events in WvWvW might work though. One of my favorite PvE events is the Centaur chain in Harathi Hinterlands. Now If I had to defend a keep against a zerg of Centaur and at the end I got to kill a champion for possible loots. I’d be there.

Here are the challenges with that:

People coming just for the event and leaving.

It would be difficult to balance the event with the invevitable zerging enemy team. You couldn’t fight a huge Centaur invasion in the open ground and survive an enemy zerg.

Maybe enemy players are kept out of the area during the event? But now I’ve just turned it back to PvE.

Maybe all teams are attacked at their respective keeps at the same time so you have to divide your man power between making sure your even succeeds and the enemies fails..?

penatbater.4710:

One thing PvErs need to consider is that wvw-ers don’t go to wvw for the reward. They go there for the experience itself, for the chance to kill someone, for the chance to be part of a tactical zerg, to coordinate on a large scale, to die for your server, etc. If anything, wvw is more of a time sink. So the less you spend thinking about rewards or what can be done better, just think of the fights or strategies or maneuvers to be had. Although if you really don’t like pvp/killing someone/being killed, then it’s no fault you won’t be interested in wvw.

Personally, I feel more pve objectives (like the frogs/moles/ogres in EB or the quaggan nodes) would help ease PvE players into wvw. They’ll see it as a pve quest, but will have a real impact on wvw itself.

i laughed when you said tactical zerg.

“to die for your server” …um, what?

in all seriousness, i play in a t1 server, the “tactics” a zerg has is really shallow mainly because that’s how the game mechanics dictate it to be.

And as what cryxtryx said, the anonymity is quite discouraging. similar to what i said about it being just follow commander dude into location X.

Bread.7516:

i laughed when you said tactical zerg.

Correct. A ‘tactical zerg’ is like ‘dry water’.

Clearly you don’t understand the difference between a zerg and a coordinated guild group.

Sil.4560:

Clearly you don’t understand the difference between a zerg and a coordinated guild group.

Clearly you don’t understand that I used the word ‘zerg’ and not the words ‘coordinated guild group’. Had I meant the latter, I would have used the latter. Try to read what’s posted before responding.

Craptrain.7203:

Clearly you don’t understand that I used the word ‘zerg’ and not the words ‘coordinated guild group’. Had I meant the latter, I would have used the latter. Try to read what’s posted before responding.

Craptrain.7203:

The whole “follow the zerg” style of gameplay is simply not fun for me.

Your post quoted first shows that you have very little experience in the way of actually functioning outside of zergs and reeks of the same blatant ignorance that most people who talk about zergs display when they talk about WvW. So yes, what my post is saying is that you are literally not knowledgeable about differences in practice.

Oh, and by the way, a smaller group with enough influence on the server can very much use a zerg tactically simply by its existence simply by suggesting to the pug commander where to hit next.

Sil.4560:

Clearly you don’t understand the difference between a zerg and a coordinated guild group.

Oh believe me, i have been in a very coordinated guild group especially during release.

Oh, not doubting it, Bread. But then my post wasn’t aimed at you. Did your guild group ever use a zerg to their advantage? You can put one to use, tactically, without ever being a part of it. I think of it as much like a tactical nuke – it’s the weapon itself being referred to, not its particular actions. You know the zerg is a mindless ball of raging 1 smashers – the question is always who has the blue Dorito, and where you can convince them to drag their followers to for the server’s benefit. =)

No offense guys, but you’re derailing this thread pretty hard.

Sil.4560:

Oh, not doubting it. But then my post wasn’t aimed at you. Did your guild group ever use a zerg to their advantage? You can put one to use, tactically, without ever being a part of it. I think of it as much like a tactical nuke – it’s the weapon itself being referred to, not its particular actions. You know the zerg is a mindless ball of raging 1 smashers – the question is always who has the blue Dorito, and where you can convince them to drag their followers to for the server’s benefit. =)

oh then i apologise.

Yes we put so called zergs to our advantage, my main dislike for wvw is because so called tactics are still really shallow. I blame game mechanics – just a simple example: high ground for rangers in gw1 offered a significant increase in range and damage, in gw2 they took that out.

and then there’s the thing cryxtryx pointed out. what if i didn’t want to be in a massive zerg? whatever they you do outside it doesn’t really seem important or have any manner of significance.

Yes you may take out a supply camp when no one is guarding, you may intercept a few dolyaks, but the efforts of that group is easily rendered almost insignificant.

And there’s the aspect of player skill, there isn’t really a moment in wvw where a player’s individual skill matters greatly, one would just seem like an anonymous grunt that a nutless monkey could replace.

Those are only my personal opinions, of course many would not agree. So back to the question what would make a pve guy like me go back into wvw? I cannot really specifically point out much suggestions because i have a different taste in games when it comes to pvp, but my example earlier “fantasy earth zero” did mass scale pvp pretty well.

No need! I’m glad that there are more people out there who have given coordinated efforts a try. I really hope that WvW moves in that direction in the future; it’s definitely one of the things that would keep me interested in the game mode, as I may have said earlier in the thread.

I do think the tactics could be improved upon. A lot. More traps, mass stealth by terrain, different ways to interact with terrain, etc. I’d definitely find this more interesting!