Guild Wars 2

Sil.4560:

No need! I’m glad that there are more people out there who have given coordinated efforts a try. I really hope that WvW moves in that direction in the future; it’s definitely one of the things that would keep me interested in the game mode, as I may have said earlier in the thread.

I do think the tactics could be improved upon. A lot. More traps, mass stealth by terrain, different ways to interact with terrain, etc. I’d definitely find this more interesting!

a very simple example on bows for gw1, you might want to take a look at their properties and what it could have meant in regard to high-ground advantage.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bow#Properties

I’m getting an Error 503, but should be able to find it on my own.

Sil.4560:

I’m getting an Error 503, but should be able to find it on my own.

lol yeah wiki is a bit buggy today, but a simple note would be that it offered significant increase in damage and range depending on height.

Sil.4560:

Craptrain.7203:

Clearly you don’t understand that I used the word ‘zerg’ and not the words ‘coordinated guild group’. Had I meant the latter, I would have used the latter. Try to read what’s posted before responding.

Craptrain.7203:

The whole “follow the zerg” style of gameplay is simply not fun for me.

Your post quoted first shows that you have very little experience in the way of actually functioning outside of zergs and reeks of the same blatant ignorance that most people who talk about zergs display when they talk about WvW. So yes, what my post is saying is that you are literally not knowledgeable about differences in practice.

Oh, and by the way, a smaller group with enough influence on the server can very much use a zerg tactically simply by its existence simply by suggesting to the pug commander where to hit next.

Not even close to the point I was making.

I’ve functioned both in a zerg AND a coordinated guild group (on a tier 1 server no less). The point was, in either scenario, individual skill means incredibly little. It takes minimal skill to follow someone’s directions on teamspeak and execute them. There’s almost no individual initiative taken. Hence the WoW raid analogy. Understand now?

I love how your post insisting we get back to the original topic was deleted, so you feel the need to return in and start things up again.

Regarding your opinion on individual skill, perhaps that is your own experience. I look for and make my own opportunities. One person can make a difference.

Sil.4560:

I love how your post insisting we get back to the original topic was deleted, so you feel the need to return in and start things up again.

Regarding your opinion on individual skill, perhaps that is your own experience. I look for and make my own opportunities. One person can make a difference.

I’ll state it again for your benefit. If you have a personal problem with me over 1 post, take it to PM.

As for the discussion at hand, give a realistic example of one person with above average skill significantly influencing a 20v20, 40v40, or even great fight. With graphical display and lag issues, massive amounts of AoE, and things such as arrow carts, trebs, catapults, etc, I find your suggestion that one person’s individual skill has a meaningful impact is laughable. Furthermore, even if you could prove that one person’s skill has an impact in WvW, compare it with the impact in 5v5 tPvP or in 5 man PvE content. Do you honestly think that a person who gets gratification out of meaningful individual contribution would choose WvW over either of those options? This goes back to my original point; how someone who values their own contribution to a fight won’t find much to be satisfied in with WvW.

lol, I was content not to hear from you at all again in this thread after the posts were deleted. You’re the one who elected to start in again.

There’s really no point in even arguing any of this with you. No matter what real example I provide of one person making a difference (myself and/or others), you’ll write it off as somehow not relevant or insufficient, because you are already fixated in your view of PvP > WvW in skill and honestly I have no interest in changing it because I don’t care what you choose to do with your game time and would rather not see you in the field in the first place. Your only interest here is to cause problems. I’ve no interest in discussing with you further.

Sil.4560:

lol, I was content not to hear from you at all again in this thread after the posts were deleted. You’re the one who elected to start in again.

There’s really no point in even arguing any of this with you. No matter what real example I provide of one person making a difference (myself and/or others), you’ll write it off as somehow not relevant or insufficient, because you are already fixated in your view of PvP > WvW in skill and honestly I have no interest in changing it because I don’t care what you choose to do with your game time and would rather not see you in the field in the first place. Your only interest here is to cause problems. I’ve no interest in discussing with you further.

If I wasn’t interested in discussing it, I wouldn’t have asked you any questions. I am interested in discussing it. Please enlighten me as to how individual contribution to WvW is somehow greater than in PvE or PvP. I asked you for an example and you declined to give one, so I’m asking again. And again, if you do manage to illustrate a scenario where an individual’s personal skill significantly affects the outcome of an engagement, I’d like to hear how you think a player would find it more rewarding in WvW than in PvE or PvP. You seem to think my original point was somehow ignorant or invalid, but you haven’t offered a single bit of evidence to contradict it.

Get rid of griefers, trolls. Somehow I always have the feeling this is the majority of PvP players. This includes minigames and WvW. Yes, there are nice people in WvW but they are far and few in between. In PvE I can avoid and block nasty people, PvP specifically awards people griefing. As it is, I’d rather gnaw off my arm than subject myself to useless anger.

Meluna.1764:

Get rid of griefers, trolls. Somehow I always have the feeling this is the majority of PvP players. This includes minigames and WvW. Yes, there are nice people in WvW but they are far and few in between. In PvE I can avoid and block nasty people, PvP specifically awards people griefing. As it is, I’d rather gnaw off my arm than subject myself to useless anger.

Just a question: what do you mean by ‘griefers’ in this context. I can say that of all the failings of the GW2 community, excessive rudeness is not one of them. My time in sPvP and tPvP has been very enjoyable with most everyone being cordial and friendly (same for WvW although I don’t consider the game mode itself enjoyable).

I got into WvW when someone brought me in, and I ended up having a good time. We won alot, which helped. Had I gotten beaten alot, Id be less inclined to stay. Sure its hard to guarentee any success, but it helps. I think it just helps to bring in people directly. Might not be a way to get masses at once, but its one method. Now I play WvW daily, though I still PvE a ton too.

You can’t tell me that it helps the server in any way if you have a group 5+ farming minchars that are trying to get the map completion. You can’t tell me it’s a display of superior skill to camp with 10+ guys the spawn/arena in the JP so no one can finish. The only halfway pleasant WvW experience I ever had was in groups larger than 5, when the Trollzergs can`t just steamroll you and actual play is possible. And no, they don’t do anything, they camp your single corpse forever so they can predict your respawn. And no, that was not a single incident. It is the norm. But the JP I don’t want to do in a zerg, so I keep away from the entire content alltogether. That is why most people hate the wvw maps being a part of world completion. Because it is filled to the brim with people looking just for easy targets instead of serious challenge. Taking up server space from people who would actually enjoy the content.

Meluna.1764:

You can’t tell me that it helps the server in any way if you have a group 5+ farming minchars that are trying to get the map completion. You can’t tell me it’s a display of superior skill to camp with 10+ guys the spawn/arena in the JP so no one can finish. The only halfway pleasant WvW experience I ever had was in groups larger than 5, when the Trollzergs can`t just steamroll you and actual play is possible. And no, they don’t do anything, they camp your single corpse forever so they can predict your respawn. And no, that was not a single incident. It is the norm. But the JP I don’t want to do in a zerg, so I keep away from the entire content alltogether. That is why most people hate the wvw maps being a part of world completion. Because it is filled to the brim with people looking just for easy targets instead of serious challenge. Taking up server space from people who would actually enjoy the content.

I’m not sure if this is supposed to answer my question or not. Are you saying that someone who kills you because you’re on the opposing side is somehow a ‘griefer’? Am I understanding you correctly?

Listen, I’m not a fan of WvW at all, but I really can’t really buy the argument that killing opposing players is somehow a community problem, trolling, or griefing. However, if your point is that WvW maps shouldn’t count towards world completion, I agree with you.

Meluna.1764:

You can’t tell me that it helps the server in any way if you have a group 5+ farming minchars that are trying to get the map completion. You can’t tell me it’s a display of superior skill to camp with 10+ guys the spawn/arena in the JP so no one can finish. The only halfway pleasant WvW experience I ever had was in groups larger than 5, when the Trollzergs can`t just steamroll you and actual play is possible. And no, they don’t do anything, they camp your single corpse forever so they can predict your respawn. And no, that was not a single incident. It is the norm. But the JP I don’t want to do in a zerg, so I keep away from the entire content alltogether. That is why most people hate the wvw maps being a part of world completion. Because it is filled to the brim with people looking just for easy targets instead of serious challenge. Taking up server space from people who would actually enjoy the content.

I can actually relate to this. Since the original topic is about what would it take to get a PvE person into WvW, then i would say for me personally this was the one thing that kept me away for months. When I finally came in WvW it is for our weekly WvW event and we came in huge numbers, there is safety in numbers after all and being surrounded by people friendly to you is like an armor againts griefers.

I have no issue about being bested by genuinely skilled players; I know my limitations and my reflex aren’t that great. I do take it badly if it seems the other party is just out to ruin my experience of it.

Craptrain.7203:

I’m not sure if this is supposed to answer my question or not. Are you saying that someone who kills you because you’re on the opposing side is somehow a ‘griefer’? Am I understanding you correctly?

Listen, I’m not a fan of WvW at all, but I really can’t really buy the argument that killing opposing players is somehow a community problem, trolling, or griefing. However, if your point is that WvW maps shouldn’t count towards world completion, I agree with you.

They aren’t killing me because I’m on the other team. If 5 people chase me alone across half the map just because I’m trying to reach a Vista (and yes that happend), they are not skilled, they are not adding anything to the game, they just want me dead because I am an easy target because they are more. As generalraccoon said before me, I have nothing against being bested by better players, but these incidents have nothing to do with being skilled, they don’t even add to WvW. In the full five minutes they chased me (bonus: I got away in the end) they could have tapped several camps or done virtually anything but annoy a single player not even interested in the encounter in the first place. Looking closely at it, it’s even more of a waste to their server than to me. I completed the WvW map, I have no intention of feeding the trolls any more. I even avoid PvP minigames. Anything with PvP attached to it somehow attracts trolls. It’s just not worth it. Just run mindless with a zerg, no thank you.

Meluna.1764:

Craptrain.7203:

I’m not sure if this is supposed to answer my question or not. Are you saying that someone who kills you because you’re on the opposing side is somehow a ‘griefer’? Am I understanding you correctly?

Listen, I’m not a fan of WvW at all, but I really can’t really buy the argument that killing opposing players is somehow a community problem, trolling, or griefing. However, if your point is that WvW maps shouldn’t count towards world completion, I agree with you.

They aren’t killing me because I’m on the other team. If 5 people chase me alone across half the map just because I’m trying to reach a Vista (and yes that happend), they are not skilled, they are not adding anything to the game, they just want me dead because I am an easy target because they are more. As generalraccoon said before me, I have nothing against being bested by better players, but these incidents have nothing to do with being skilled, they don’t even add to WvW. In the full five minutes they chased me (bonus: I got away in the end) they could have tapped several camps or done virtually anything but annoy a single player not even interested in the encounter in the first place. Looking closely at it, it’s even more of a waste to their server than to me. I completed the WvW map, I have no intention of feeding the trolls any more. I even avoid PvP minigames. Anything with PvP attached to it somehow attracts trolls. It’s just not worth it. Just run mindless with a zerg, no thank you.

That’s not trolling, that’s a group of bad players. I’m curious if they taunted you, or mocked you, or somehow did something other than “enemy player, free kill”. Because, as you described it, it’s not griefing.

They could make me do wvwvw again when they

-add new maps , world vs world is getting bland with the same battlegrounds all the time .

-take out the aoe ( area of effect ) nerf , by doing this you’re less likely to get overrun by a zerg and people would spread out more . Anyone who stands inside the aoe circle and doesn’t move deserves to get killed .

-When they make you earn the commanders title , getting screamed and cursed by the commander demoralises me and his army , therefore making people less effective . (there are good commanders out there and does a good job of commanding . )

-new mechanics , I’m just tired of trebbing and using arrowcarts on people , give me a siege engine to run them over or give us some aeriel or naval warfare .

-make engineers useful again , buff their healing and damage like it was during opening day of GW2 , right now there’s so few engineers in wvwvw .

Zaxares.5419:

Honestly? I don’t think you’d ever be able to convert a PvE’er who wasn’t already into WvW as well. The holdouts are people who just do not like to PvP; they don’t like competing against other people, and they most certainly do not like being attacked by other players.

As long as WvW holds the risk of being attacked and killed by other players, you will never get these PvE’ers into WvW. (And of course, if you remove that, then it’s not really WvW anymore.)

bullkitten. I don’t wvw because it’s a boring, imbalanced zergfest

I’ve been playing this since the month of release but haven’t set foot in WvW. Nor do I plan to.

After so much time in RvR/Battlegrounds in DAOC and PvP in WoW, MMO pvp has simply lost any draw for me.

Why would I bother with the endless stream of balance updates / class envy / class imbalance (that plagues pvp in almost any MMO) when I can load up some random FPS and mindlessly shoot other gamers for an hour?

In GW2 in particular, what would I actually gain for competing in WvW? Clearly, nothing that’s required to make me enjoy my time in the game. I’ll stick to open-world events.

Two things would probably help.

1. No item damage on death.

2. More room for small scale encounters to make a difference. (Talking 4-6 people)

It’s just a lot of zerg vs zerg, and that’s the only real way to take and defend the keeps. Supply camps and caravans could be protected by a small group, but there’s really nothing to do if a huge zerg sweeps though. A small group might be able to hold out in a tower, but that mostly depends on the tower being fully upgraded and stocked.

Beyond that. shrug It’s a fun diversion, but I do get bored of the back and forth after a while. Something more permanent to obtain might be interesting.

For me a mostly PvEer who had dabbled a fair amount in WvWvW it would take a denerfing of my Ranger shortbow range. Give me my range back and I’d be super happy to go back and fight some more.

The question is almost as stupid as asking what it’d take for a dedicated WvW’er to get into PVE. It’s rather simple, there’s three types of people in games and those usually don’t change in a lifetime:
- PVE exclusive
- PVP exclusive
- PVX mixed playstyles

The real question being, how to get the PVX players that currently play PVE exclusively into PVP … and that’s not easy.

I’d like new maps… the same 2 maps (BLs are identical) get really boring after a while. Something drastic, maybe like a desert or something? Jungle warfare? Any theme would be possible, because WvW is based in the Mists, which are said to be ever changing… and this particular pocket has been rather static in layout for quite a while.

So yes, if they made new maps or even just altered the appearances of current maps, I’d be enticed to return. For now though, I’m content to sit in LA and look good.

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

What would have to change/be added into the game to make it more appealing to those who primarily farm PvE events and dungeons?

Just curious about some of your responses.

In all honesty, the attitudes of the people that you’re supposedly trying to dominate WvW with. This is what got me off-side with WvW to start with, the fact that there’s not a lot of co-operation between allies… but what’s worse is that people who have the commander icon (the ‘blue dorito’) treat it as a get-out-of-jail-free card and completely shirk all responsibility when it comes to leading a team into battle and organising people/groups at certain areas of the map.

I don’t want to tar all commanders with the same brush here, but there are a few stand-outs (trolls and thugs essentially) who I won’t name that used to be on our server and then transferred over to other servers when they became available. But having said that, there are some quality commanders who really know their way around the map, how to control proceedings, organise people to different areas and most of all, knew how to overcome the opponents and win. I left WvW when the commanders that could do a great job and that I and numerous others put a good deal of trust into, eventually transferred over to a different server.

Again it’s the attitudes of people playing the game that vastly sways my opinion of WvW. It was the same with the original PvP in GW1, the attitudes influenced my decision to not partake in that anymore as well. I don’t mind being on a losing team if we’re out-classed or out-played by better people, they can’t hold all areas forever, but it’s the decisions made by ‘those in command’ which can influence my participation.

You would need to train the PVE’ers to wvw. Thats what it would take. You have to find one that is willing to be tought how to wvw and show them how. Basically these are people that know nothing about wvw and have no intrests in figuring it out becasue they are not competitive players. So there is a lot of hand holding going on. They gotta be in the right guild, following the right commander and then maybe once they are tought and given a build to run you can get them into wvw.

Does OP or anyone really want to go through all of that to get a PVEr into wvw probably not. Only a very few guild take in PVErs and train them.

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

I just can’t see myself ever getting excited about WvW, for one simple reason: I want there to be a storyline-based justification for the actions my character is expected to take in-game, because I’m more of a roleplayer.

There really isn’t a sufficient plot-based or lore-based incentive for my character to travel to some other random dimension and try to kill people and have people trying to kill me for no real reason other than that our icons are different colors.

WvW simply isn’t story-driven enough for me; that isn’t a criticism, but it also isn’t my preference. I can’t think of any good way ANet could make it so or any logical reason they would do so, so I just accept it as not my thing and stick to what I do enjoy.

Spvp=CoD
WvW=BF4

while i believe BF4 and WvW are the superior to the other…that run back and slow paced action turns me off everytime…running for 10 mins with no action =\= fun…..i like a more fast paced game type

if u cud mix WvW mechanics with the fast pace of sPvP…it wud b golden

Warlord.9074:

You would need to train the PVE’ers to wvw. Thats what it would take. You have to find one that is willing to be tought how to wvw and show them how. Basically these are people that know nothing about wvw and have no intrests in figuring it out becasue they are not competitive players. So there is a lot of hand holding going on. They gotta be in the right guild, following the right commander and then maybe once they are tought and given a build to run you can get them into wvw.

If they really aren’t competitive players, then that won’t help, because they will still not find it fun.

You give me some of those “you got owned” pills that thieves and other people seem to be using and will talk. Nothings more of a turn off for me then being 1 shot in the back over and over again by something I have no way of detecting. Least WoW gave me a chance but here.

Pop-up when I enter that asks “You’re entering WvW, would you like to turn off /map, /say and /team now?” and a pop-up reminder to put them back on when I leave wvw. Preferably in a calming blue color and a relaxing sigh-sound.

Seriously though more micro-managing would be nice. I like it how in wvw maps you get events and it’s sorta like pve-map, but with pvp… but even more events would be nice. Some that we could solo would be great – it would give incentive to stick around even if there’s almost no one else in the map.

Craptrain.7203:

I’ll state it again for your benefit. If you have a personal problem with me over 1 post, take it to PM.

As for the discussion at hand, give a realistic example of one person with above average skill significantly influencing a 20v20, 40v40, or even great fight. With graphical display and lag issues, massive amounts of AoE, and things such as arrow carts, trebs, catapults, etc, I find your suggestion that one person’s individual skill has a meaningful impact is laughable. Furthermore, even if you could prove that one person’s skill has an impact in WvW, compare it with the impact in 5v5 tPvP or in 5 man PvE content. Do you honestly think that a person who gets gratification out of meaningful individual contribution would choose WvW over either of those options? This goes back to my original point; how someone who values their own contribution to a fight won’t find much to be satisfied in with WvW.

You could always form a camp raid party or solo cap camps while the zerg does its thing. If you are an especially skilled player in a OP class, you can take on 2 or more guys of equal lvl and equipment. Not to brag but one guy CAN make a difference. I just solo captured a camp today because of the daily requirements and it held for the point tally.

Furthermore, one guy can harass the rearguard of the zerg or do a suicide run to break up the zerg.

Jordo.5913:

Spvp=CoD
WvW=BF4

while i believe BF4 and WvW are the superior to the other…that run back and slow paced action turns me off everytime…running for 10 mins with no action =\= fun…..i like a more fast paced game type

if u cud mix WvW mechanics with the fast pace of sPvP…it wud b golden

WvW is tactics and strategy, PVP is about party coordination and skill. Neither has any depth to it but IMHO WvW has a much better potential for much more complexity.

Remove stealth from wvw, or just get rid of thieves and mesmers. They should not be able to down a guardian/warrior that kitten fast.

Remove map completion from WvWvW.

I entered WvWvW a little while ago with some guildee’s and actually had a bit of fun. Since then I have returned to try map completion. The frustration I have endured trying to do this has ensured that i will never return to WvW once map completion is done.

EDIT: I wanted to add that I also think if they added saveable templates of traits, utilities and gear then it would make WvW more appealing. My current build is not PvP centric, and I don’t want to take the time to change everything everytime I pop in and out of WvW.

This game is weird. Despite it being a fantasy game and having skills that do not correlate to reality whatsover, combined with the factor of massive server lag and 5 player AOE limit, a zerg that is caught in a pincer by another zerg of equal numbers will most probably be annihilated.

Jemmi.6058:

Remove map completion from WvWvW.

I entered WvWvW a little while ago with some guildee’s and actually had a bit of fun. Since then I have returned to try map completion. The frustration I have endured trying to do this has ensured that i will never return to WvW once map completion is done.

I think instead of trying to get PVE’ers into WvW by way of world completion, it actually causes more of this ^. Now with badges dropping from the achievement chests, this is really the only reason to venture in there, which is completely frustrating for many PvE only people.

As far as zerg busting, maybe they should have an opposite of outnumbered. When you are in a zerg of say 20 or more, your damage output gets reduced. There really needs to be something more in WvW to decrease the benefit of a mass of players.

I mainly play PvE. Have a fair bit of WvW. Only play on weekends. Only play the eternal battlegrounds. Borderlands are unplayably boring. When my server is bigger than or equal to that of the other servers. The zerg must be big and the action frantic. If the death count for them and myself isn’t high, I go back to FotM or the Dungeons.

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

What would have to change/be added into the game to make it more appealing to those who primarily farm PvE events and dungeons?

I am not big on WvW but I remember having a very fun evening and I believe it had to do with something very specific. Small scale battles. 4-5 of us running around capturing quickly and evasively. Almost like a sPvP match.

The times I have gotten frustrated with WvW was because in large scale battles (Zerg fights) I am killed quickly and often times without knowing what exactly is causing my death. In sPvP when you die against another player in a 1v1 or a 2v1 you think “well maybe if I had used x instead of y” or “next fight with that player I will time my abilities better”. I find I learn nothing from being killed by a zerg, I only wish i had more AoE anything.

I co-run an RP guild that also does a bit of WvW. It’s ‘The Mists’ after all.

PVP is generally not my most favourite element of the game though. This game lends itself to RP really well, but it’s disheartening for me to see so little investment towards it. Recent news suggests a focus on PVP. The reward chests suggest a focus on PVP. Some new stuff to balance things out would be nice.

To be honest, WvW just kind of bores me. I want to say it’s that it’s kind of repetitive, and individually I don’t feel like I’m really contributing or doing anything. I mean you go into wvw and you find a commander, follow them in a big zerg, attack somebody else’s tower or keep or whatever, take it over, and move on to the next one. And the fights are zerg vs zerg. Not a lot there for individual skill, you just stay in the group and use aoes. And half the time there’s lag and you may not even be able to see half the people around you. I mean I’ve done some WvW before and it’s okay..It can be fun, for a little bit..But I can’t see myself seriously getting into it because it just gets too repetitive and too boring too quickly.

I like pve because there’s just so many different things to do, and I can hang out with my friends or decide to go do a dungeon or jump puzzle or guild mission or exploring or whatever with them. There’s just a lot of variety and different scenery and whatever. I like spvp because you’re in small groups, and you can get fair 1v1 fights, where the fight actually depends on you individually having skill and everything. The biggest fight you could have in pvp is like 5v5 which is still relying on every person to do their part..not like a big zerg where you can hide behind 30 people and blindly aim because you’ll be guaranteed to hit somebody.

And other people have posted some good points about the wvw maps getting a little stale..I’m sure if they introduced new maps and environments to WvW, I’d at the very least go check it out and be interested for a little while. Plus while you may want to deny it, if you enter wvw as an inexperienced player…You can see a lot of people complaining about noobs not knowing what to do, or not having good wvw builds, or whatever. It’s not very encouraging. I also think I would feel better if I had a better idea of what was going on..Like I’m sure my server in their big WvW commander organization has some strategy each week about how to play it against the other servers..but I never know any of that. So when I step into wvw, I’m kinda following a big group of people following a leader who may or may not know what they’re doing, all for some strategy that I have no knowledge of.

I would expect many PVE players don’t like WvW for the same reason I don’t like Fractals. It’s repetitive and boring to them. At least fractals is more rewarding at higher tiers. I wish I could complain about having too many ascended rings in the bank.

Elthurien.8356:

I would expect many PVE players don’t like WvW for the same reason I don’t like Fractals. It’s repetitive and boring to them. At least fractals is more rewarding at higher tiers. I wish I could complain about having too many ascended rings in the bank.

Not sure its that. I do a bit of WvW here and there and I find it was be different from moment to moment because you never know what players are gonna do next unlike PvE but I do get bored of it pretty quick when it turns into a game of 2 zergs circling around the map ignoring each other. What fun is seiging if no one is trying to resist.

even in pve depending what a player does, all the strategy may change.
Just pug more if you think that things are Always the same.

I have dabbled in WVW, I like the concept, but the reality is boring.

If your server happens to have a lot of people involved in WVW when you are playing, you run around as an unstoppable mob, destroying everything in your path. No skill or tactics needed. Boring.

If , on the other hand, your server is underrepresented, there is little you can do. You can sneak and hide for a bit, but you can’t do much else and an kitten -kicking is always just around the corner. Pointless and boring.

Its all about numbers, basically…and there is little you can do about it.

The Stain.4169:

I have dabbled in WVW, I like the concept, but the reality is boring.

If your server happens to have a lot of people involved in WVW when you are playing, you run around as an unstoppable mob, destroying everything in your path. No skill or tactics needed. Boring.

If , on the other hand, your server is underrepresented, there is little you can do. You can sneak and hide for a bit, but you can’t do much else and an kitten -kicking is always just around the corner. Pointless and boring.

Its all about numbers, basically…and there is little you can do about it.

If you think this is the case, then you haven’t WvW’d enough. WvW isn’t entirely zerg play. Run a balanced build, run havoc, and zerg surf/ harass enemy supply lines and reinforcements. There are ALWAYS good fight to be had in WvW, you just need to go looking for them and not be afraid of dying. Too often people jump into WvW alone and stay close to their side of the map because its ‘safer’, that’s the wrong way to play WvW, you should go out and search for fights with a group of friends or by yourself. Also, try tun w/ and experienced cmd on TS3 and you’ll find that there are A LOT of tactics involved in organised zerg combat.

To all PvErs, this should get you into WvW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tX6-gZw2tog#at=34

Credit to [Boom] on Seafarer’s Rest!

Calsifer.6079:

To all PvErs, this should get you into WvW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tX6-gZw2tog#at=34

Credit to [Boom] on Seafarer’s Rest!

17 seconds into the video and now I don’t even want to install TeamSpeak because of this.

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

Conversely, some PvPers need to stop being a bunch of elitist, self absorbed jerkwads. I can only assume that the majority of the people who PvP are not like that, but if so, then the minority that are, are the loudest, most obnoxious bunch of griefers out there who get off making others feel worthless and making dang sure that everyone they come across knows just how big their little kittens are…

The dumbest voices are almost always the loudest. In video games and in real life.

Atlas.9704:

Calsifer.6079:

To all PvErs, this should get you into WvW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tX6-gZw2tog#at=34

Credit to [Boom] on Seafarer’s Rest!

17 seconds into the video and now I don’t even want to install TeamSpeak because of this.

Why i use Mumble now

Interesting question. The #1 thing that annoys me with WvW is…

The run back when you die. More way points, some type of “re-join battle” or “port to last location” with an increasing timer each death to keep from being abused…SOMETHING….would make a huge difference to me. Judge if you want, but the runs back are boring.

I do think it’s not quite fair for those that are saying folks who don’t like WvW can’t handle PvP. I love PvP. I played WoW, and I couldn’t imagine NOT being on a PvP server; it made the world seem so much more dynamic. I also was really into PvP in Rift. Skills, weapons, builds, and strategy are all so different in PvP. There is nothing that quite compares to playing against real people. I can’t tell you how much I wish we had dueling in GW2 to test builds and challenge friends.

But in WvW…it’s just a completely different animal. Besides my #1, here are other things that keep me from jumping in and playing WvW:

- Again, as in other things, I’d like to be able to queue as a group. I joined grouped with a friend the other day, and there was a difference of about 10 minutes between when the two of us were allowed in. Let us play PvE together until there are slots for both of us to join at the same time.

- WvW seems to me (as someone who hasn’t gotten into it very much yet) like a big money investment. Repair costs (as many have mentioned), and different specs and armor seem to be needed if you are serious. If you also play sPvP and PvE, like I do, that means more $$ for storage for all of that stuff, more time to accumulate the different armors, and more time to research effective builds and whatnot. Somehow it just seems easier to go play sPvP.

- Learning/Skill Curve and Community Attitude. As many have mentioned, especially as the community matures, it is harder to “ease in.” Folks become more and more impatient with you more quickly. I didn’t start right away in WvW, because I like PvE and did that content first, and some of the threads here alone are enough to discourage me from trying to expand into WvW.**

**(I should note that this is not specific to WvW or PvP players and may not be a solvable problem. I have played a LOT of MMOs. This seems to be the natural path of any MMO as a community “matures” – more and more experts who have played the game for a long time lose patience with new or casual players. I’ve been noticing threads about this regarding PvE in GW2 as well as PvP, and it is something I’ve seen over and over again…WoW, Rift, Aion, even DCUO.)

- It may be that I don’t know what I’m doing, but it seems like there isn’t much to do in between the epic battles that feels rewarding or worthwhile. I like the epic battles. But I like being busy while I play, too. I don’t PvE because I can “control” the situation, as some have said. I go out of my way to see how I can push my limits in PvE, such trying to solo things that are difficult. It’s more that if I want to be occupied while I play, I know in PvE that there will will always be NPCs to fight and events to participate in. With WvW, I have to queue up, and when I finally get in, run to an area where something is going on. Too often it just doesn’t seem worth the effort. However if there were more things I could jump into quickly in WvW, I would probably end up spending a lot of time there, as I would start with the small activities but get sucked into the epic battles when they happen.

TLDR: I love PvP, and have played it in many MMOs, but the impression I get is that WvW is too much of an investment, both time and money wise, to get involved with. Whenever I have tried it seems like I have to waste too much time trying to find something to do, or running back after dying to the place where I know there is something fun to do.

colesy.8490:

You’ll never get those people who are complete carebears to play WvW. PvE is like a little sandbox where nothing bad happens and if you “fail” then every failure is under controlled conditions so it’s easy to fix. WvW, well you can basically have your entire map taken if your server doesn’t make the effort or have the manpower.

And to be perfectly honest, I’d rather not have PvE farmers coming along to WvW taking up spaces, especially during prime time.

This guy right here.