Guild Wars 2

You have to repair(& pay for it) your armor in PvP? Wow! Guess I won’t be doing any PvP in GW2 then. :\ I was looking forward to playing some WvW, particulary with my friends, but if I’m going to have to repair my armor & pay for those repairs I won’t play it.

colesy.8490:

You’ll never get those people who are complete carebears to play WvW.

Stopped reading there. People that don’t play WvW are carebears, huh? Makes sense to me. So people who play games differently than you are less because you say so. Yeah I have no reason to finish reading your post as I’m sure the rest of it is just as ignorant and immature as the start of it.

teufeldritch.7691:

You have to repair(& pay for it) your armor in PvP? Wow! Guess I won’t be doing any PvP in GW2 then. :\ I was looking forward to playing some WvW, particulary with my friends, but if I’m going to have to repair my armor & pay for those repairs I won’t play it.

No. PvP in heart of the mists doesn’t require repairs for deaths, just WvW which isn’t even PvP. WvW is “Follow the blue icon and zerg around the map” – not PvP. PvP takes skill.

World vs World needs more variety in terms of zones. We have 4 zones there, with 3 being the same zone. It’s just boring after a while. It’s a fun system, I love playing it here and there, but open world PVE is better because of its variety and things to explore.

Poledo.3256:

colesy.8490:

You’ll never get those people who are complete carebears to play WvW. PvE is like a little sandbox where nothing bad happens and if you “fail” then every failure is under controlled conditions so it’s easy to fix. WvW, well you can basically have your entire map taken if your server doesn’t make the effort or have the manpower.

And to be perfectly honest, I’d rather not have PvE farmers coming along to WvW taking up spaces, especially during prime time.

This guy right here.

After reading this, I am definitely scared now to play WVW. Clearly WVW players (at least these two) have faced danger and spit in its eye. They have confronted the risk of having “their entire map taken” (shudder, the horror!), and no doubt prevailed while covering themselves with glory!. These tough, battle hardened WVW veterans are clearly way outta my gaming league…I’m glad they have made me understand that….

I’m hangin with the “care-bears”. The dangerous realm of WVW needs to be staffed by those made of sterner stuff than me. But allow me to say to the WVW heros: Thank you for your service!

I’m surprised at the number of people who say the repair cost is keeping them away. I basically only WvW so I’m not as rich as PvEers and the repair cost is not that much. But hey if that would get more people to play then heck, Anet do it! Drop the repair cost.

Another thing they could do is get rid of the rally mechanism in WvW. This would make dying not such a big deal. This is most of the reason you have the serious WvWers being negative towards PvEers and uplevels dying.

Imo dying is fun. It shouldn’t be looked down upon as much as it is. Anything they can do to make people less afraid afaid to charge into battle and less afraid to die would be good.

To paraphrase Braveheart, Fight and you may die. Don’t log into WvW and you will live, at least awhile. And dying in your bed in Lions Arch many years from now, would you trade all the days from this day to that, for once chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they will never take our Borderlands!

If you’re going to die, die well.

I was WvW’ing a bit more (almost done map completion!!)

One thing that bugged me a lot was that the red names of opponents do not vanish when they die. When there is a huge zerg, I found myself getting confused of where all the alive enemies were. On more than one occasion, I AoE’d a bunch of corpses :\ I’d like it if the names vanished when they died

I’m a PvEer, primarily, but don’t mind a bit of WvW from time to time.

Honestly, it would be more appealing to me if I could have a specific WvW build saved in those zones, much like sPvP. I often use my PvE build out of lazyness – but a build saving mechanic would be very convenient, and may entice me into WvW more often.

In addition – would be nice to have no armour repair costs if the damage you take is entirely from other players or siege.

I think zergs are an issue. At least if a couple players on their own could run at the same speed as a zerg (so they could run away), that would help.

Ideally there would be more spread out skirmishes, so the action is spread out over the map (like it is in PvE). It is hard to feel that you are really contributing when you are in a zerg. It is much easier to see your impact in PvE.

I don’t know how to break up the zergs though.

I think they created WvW because they didn’t want to put PvP into PvE adn they didn’t want to implement dueling in PvE (yet). So they created a huge zone similar to PvE with mobs and events to kill and they throw in there open world PvP mechanic.
So, they made GW2 be a 3 games in 1: PvE, PvP, PvE with free for all PvP

I think the repair costs are those who bothers more people the most, then there is the bad feeling getting pawned so fast and multiple times., then it is the general adversity against direct combat with other players

No repair costs and something actually decent to spend badges on. Even if its just to sell it for a nice amount money. I have so many badges from achievement rewards that im avoiding WvW due to running out of bank space. :/

No repair costs would help. Better rewards, too. I lose money in WvW, and that’s not acceptable when I’m working on a legendary.

Forcing me into using a focus to get around also makes me disinclined to WvW. I don’t like constantly falling behind my friends, whose passive speed bonuses are just there while I have to juggle weapons and runes.

All of this makes me, who used to be mainly a PvPer in other MMOs, almost completely a PvEer.

Johje Holan.4607:

To paraphrase Braveheart, Fight and you may die. Don’t log into WvW and you will live, at least awhile. And dying in your bed in Lions Arch many years from now, would you trade all the days from this day to that, for once chance to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they will never take our Borderlands!

I’m not targeting the players of WvW when I say the following, but rather the game mode the devs are trying to make:

I’d rather stay in bed in Lion’s Arch will all my PvE accomplishments lining the walls than try to fight in a half-baked Sto’vo’Kor that tries to be both game modes and yet is really neither.

So yes the other servers can take my Borderlands.

I used to play PvP in many games. I don’t any more. I am just to old to deal with the drama. I play games to relax and have fun not to listen to some brat rage because he thinks the more foul language he can fit in to a 30 second slot the bigger he is.
Just go look in the account forums at the players who say it’s PvP, they should be able to say whatever they want to whoever they want. I liked the Guild Halls in GW1 where we could battle against friends. I got tired of going in to regular PvP and being called a cheater because I was an ele and was using rit spells, or took another player down too fast so I must have been hacking. PvP generally brings out the worst in players and after nearly 25 years of dealing with it, I have no reason to ever go back.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

I used to play PvP in many games. I don’t any more. I am just to old to deal with the drama. I play games to relax and have fun not to listen to some brat rage because he thinks the more foul language he can fit in to a 30 second slot the bigger he is.
Just go look in the account forums at the players who say it’s PvP, they should be able to say whatever they want to whoever they want. I liked the Guild Halls in GW1 where we could battle against friends. I got tired of going in to regular PvP and being called a cheater because I was an ele and was using rit spells, or took another player down too fast so I must have been hacking. PvP generally brings out the worst in players and after nearly 25 years of dealing with it, I have no reason to ever go back.

This, exactly.

Mkalafut.1273:

No. PvP in heart of the mists doesn’t require repairs for deaths, just WvW which isn’t even PvP. WvW is “Follow the blue icon and zerg around the map” – not PvP. PvP takes skill.

I was winning in sPvP with 3 min left to go and then I took a DC in the client.

Some people follow the blue icon to their deaths while others to many loot bags.

The only time I go into wvw is to explore and get the hell out.. I’m not interested and beating the heck out of another player nor am I fond of getting ganked. None of it is fun for me.

Clockradio.3257:

…to get you excited about WvW?

What would have to change/be added into the game to make it more appealing to those who primarily farm PvE events and dungeons?

Just curious about some of your responses.

Nothing would ever encourage me to WvW.
I also don’t do dungeons

The thing is I like challenge, I don’t mind dying and I don’t mind failing. I’m not a carebear. However I play far more PvE largely dungeons. I want to like WvW but what I find most of the time is

• No enemies to fight at all for ages and ages.
• Fights often come down to which zerg is bigger, not individual skill.
• A lot of the time is just waiting.
• Match-ups go on far too long. It’s obvious 2 or 3 days in what is going to happen.
• It get boring taking the same tower over and over again.

So as a PvE player what would get me more involved.

• Shorter fights, Breaking down the week into 3 periods would be awesome, First night of WvW is fun, after 2-3 days generally everyone has given up, or it’s just holding ground.
• Alternate maps, Imaging if first part of the week was the current maps, 2nd part was islands with ships, underwater combat, Naval forts, 3rd path of the week was A huge City and Castle defence with the World which did worse in the 1st 2 sections trying to defend their capital, with tight street to street fighting, sewers, ability to barricade main streets etc, build siege towers. This would cut down on a lot of the drudgery
• Give us something more to do as individual groups when it’s quiet. I know at 4am in the morning I get really bored putting up a catapult and waiting 15 mins for it to take down a wall. Imagine DE chains that help out the main war effort. So when it’s dead you can at least PvE to help your world. A bit like the break out events on a larger scale.
• You need things like the orbs to break up the monotony too.

In otherwords I play PvE and sPvP because WvW is SO kittening boring and you have very little sense of progression.

• Being in a good coordinated guild having a voice commander
• Having a good field commander around (e.g. Coolet wink)
• No drama, no bratty comments, no rage quitters, no kitten attitudes
• No lopsided matches (15 vs 50? ugh, that is strongly discouraging)
• Improve the current lagging issues

If I could flag whether or not I want to be attacked at any given time, I’d spend more time out there.

Celtic Lady.3729:

If I could flag whether or not I want to be attacked at any given time, I’d spend more time out there.

How would that work. An entire zerg could run to the place you want to take then flag on?

lol Hey, I didn’t say whether or not it would work. Question was what would make me want to go out there more and being able to romp the hills without getting zerged would do it for me.

Ratty.5176:

Celtic Lady.3729:

If I could flag whether or not I want to be attacked at any given time, I’d spend more time out there.

How would that work. An entire zerg could run to the place you want to take then flag on?

If that was put into effect it would probably be done in the starting area only. Doing so would also make you unable to attack other players.

I do both so i really don’t have to get excited about it. But i think zerging of WvW turns a lot of people off. It can’t be helped though not much you can do to stop it.

Mkalafut.1273:

colesy.8490:

You’ll never get those people who are complete carebears to play WvW.

Stopped reading there. People that don’t play WvW are carebears, huh? Makes sense to me. So people who play games differently than you are less because you say so. Yeah I have no reason to finish reading your post as I’m sure the rest of it is just as ignorant and immature as the start of it.

Funny thing is, every form of PvP/WvW in this game would be classed as carebear PvP by anyone who has played a real PvP game. Don’t take it to heart. When I read the word carebear on MMO forums these days it just makes me smile. It’s cute in a way that only someone who has played FFA MMOs would understand.

I m a full player ( pve, pvp ) !

The Stain.4169:

Poledo.3256:

colesy.8490:

You’ll never get those people who are complete carebears to play WvW. PvE is like a little sandbox where nothing bad happens and if you “fail” then every failure is under controlled conditions so it’s easy to fix. WvW, well you can basically have your entire map taken if your server doesn’t make the effort or have the manpower.

And to be perfectly honest, I’d rather not have PvE farmers coming along to WvW taking up spaces, especially during prime time.

This guy right here.

After reading this, I am definitely scared now to play WVW. Clearly WVW players (at least these two) have faced danger and spit in its eye. They have confronted the risk of having “their entire map taken” (shudder, the horror!), and no doubt prevailed while covering themselves with glory!. These tough, battle hardened WVW veterans are clearly way outta my gaming league…I’m glad they have made me understand that….

I’m hangin with the “care-bears”. The dangerous realm of WVW needs to be staffed by those made of sterner stuff than me. But allow me to say to the WVW heros: Thank you for your service!

Actually what I meant was that guy right there was why I never play PvP.

Realistically, nothing.

There are a few main things that I really don’t like about WvW, and if any changed it would no longer be what it is. I certainly don’t want or expect them to change everything WvW is to please me.

The first thing I don’t like is just the fact thakittens PvP in general. I’m OK with competitive gameplay in certain types of games where its skill-based (fighting games, racing games, ect) or even certain PvP modes here in GW2 like Dragon Ball. But I’m not a fan of PvP in games that also involve customizable skills, because PvP rather harshly enforces “good” builds and “bad” builds. Some things work, some things don’t, and that’s pretty much the end of it. I don’t really tend to ever pick the “best” builds, I play what I want to play and find enjoyable (sometimes that ends up being the best, usually not). Now, in something that solo like, say, Pokémon, that’s all fine and good. I can play how I want to play and if I lose, so what. But in something like GW2 WvW where its a team effort, I feel like I’m screwing over my team if I’m using a sub-par setup. But I don’t want to play only the best and not how I want to play, so I’m stuck.

The second is zerg gameplay. I hate playing as one player in a hundred, or one in fifty, or even one in twenty, in GW2. Now, its not because I don’t feel like I’m contributing or anything like that, I have no problem with working as a group toward a goal and some games pull it off well. I don’t at all mind being just a “cog in the machine”, I don’t need to be the star. But in GW2 in particular, a large group of players just ends up being a huge cluster of particle effects and chaos. Supporting specific players, healing, targeting specific enemies, trying to coordinate combo fields… its all extremely difficult to do in a large group setting and it ends up just being everyone throwing AoE’s at each other in a giant glowing death ball. I really don’t enjoy that at all. Its bad enough in open-world PvE (definitely don’t like it there either), but at least there you don’t get ganked and its only a 1-sided zerg.

nothing will get me to enjoy wvw, i hate literally everything about it and i don’t intend to return after getting map completion through rotation. 2mlg4u kittens don’t need to worry about me. after seeing how absolute kitten kittenvkitten is, Fractals actually looks like a godsend.
that is all that will come out of wvw in my experience, realizing how much better pve is in comparison.

Mkalafut.1273:

colesy.8490:

You’ll never get those people who are complete carebears to play WvW.

Stopped reading there. People that don’t play WvW are carebears, huh? Makes sense to me. So people who play games differently than you are less because you say so. Yeah I have no reason to finish reading your post as I’m sure the rest of it is just as ignorant and immature as the start of it.

Don’t pretend you stopped reading there, you didn’t.

And no, I’m saying people who don’t play the PvP game modes are too scared of facing danger. There’s nothing wrong with it, people don’t enjoy getting ganked or outplayed (most of the time), it’s just the reality.

But sure, go ahead and insult my post just because I don’t share your view.

colesy.8490:

And no, I’m saying people who don’t play the PvP game modes are too scared of facing danger. There’s nothing wrong with it, people don’t enjoy getting ganked or outplayed (most of the time), it’s just the reality.

1) What danger ? What is there to be, “scared,” of ? Its a game played at a a degree of remote safety lacking anything even resembling, “danger.”

2) Outplayed how ? Losses or character deaths occur more often than not due to being vastly outnumbered, or due to random chance (fifteen members of the opposing zerg targeted you or your area at the same time and you were downed essentially instantaneously). WvW is, in its current iteration, not about outplaying, or being outplayed by, an opposing combatant.

1) What danger ? What is there to be, “scared,” of ? Its a game played at a a degree of remote safety lacking anything even resembling, “danger.”

The “danger” of dying. You may not be able to comprehend it, but people are scared of dying in this game. At least for me, if I get to 25 stacks on a sigil in WvW I don’t want to die either since it gives me +250 precision.

2) Outplayed how ? Losses or character deaths occur as often (or more so) due to being vastly outnumbered, or due to random chance (fifteen members of the opposing zerg targeted you or your area at the same time and you were downed essentially instantaneously). WvW is, in its current iteration, not about outplaying, or being outplayed by, an opposing combatant.

Outplayed as in literally outplayed. For example if I am dueling someone and they anticipate my phantasms so they evade their hits or use invulnerabilities and then chase me down and kill me, they outplayed me. I already mentioned ganking anyway.

WvW does actually involve outplaying too, there are countless times on Seafarer’s Rest where against even or greater numbers, through superior skill and leadership we beat our enemies with well-timed CC, getting the jump on them with a veil or even just outmanoeuvering mid-fight.

colesy.8490:

The “danger” of dying. You may not be able to comprehend it, but people are scared of dying in this game. At least for me, if I get to 25 stacks on a sigil in WvW I don’t want to die either since it gives me +250 precision.

I am not sure that desiring to avoid the inconvenience of having to rebuild stacks to get the maximum yield out of a buff qualifies as being, “scared.”

colesy.8490:

Outplayed as in literally outplayed. For example if I am dueling someone and they anticipate my phantasms so they evade their hits or use invulnerabilities and then chase me down and kill me, they outplayed me. I already mentioned ganking anyway.

WvW does actually involve outplaying too, there are countless times on Seafarer’s Rest where against even or greater numbers, through superior skill and leadership we beat our enemies with well-timed CC, getting the jump on them with a veil or even just outmanoeuvering mid-fight.

I just haven’t seen this all that often. As said before, “more often than not,” death (for me) seems to come from facing insurmountable opposition in the form of numbers, not being outplayed. I am not saying that it doesn’t happen, just doesnt seem to be the norm (which I believe it should be for any form of PvP), or even all that common from my experience.

Success in WvW seems to be more about, “git thur fustest with the mostest,” than, “Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate.”

Still it can be very fun, and I highly encourage those who have avoided it because of negative PvP experiences in the past to give it a try.

As a PvE’er with 100% world, the only thing that would get me back into WvW is if WvW was completely decoupled from PvE.

The would mean:
1- No PvE content in WvW, i.e. no 100% world mapping requirement, JP completion, living story content, etc. in WvW
2- No daily/monthly achievement options related to WvW. Introduce a WvW only daily and monthly system like PvP has.
3- Build templates, armour and weapons specific only to WvW.

Additional changes:

Commander titles be gated behind actual skill achievements within WvW, and introduce commander rankings. If I am going to follow some blue icon around a map, I want to know if this player has a grasp of tactics or is a door-knob.

Limits on zerg size, encouraging more small group encounters. and more map variety would help to reduce the major bore-fest WvW is now.

As for you WvW ‘vets’ who think PvE’ers are a bunch of care bears, afraid of a fight, I can only laugh. It is you lot who have to be rezzed and carried though dungeon cos your crappy WvW builds cannot deal with trash mobs and bosses. So please, leave dungeons to PvE players who know what they are doing and don’t need a blue icon telling them what to do.

I’ve played WvW and there is absolutely no fear involved. The only fear association you can make about it is being laughed at for failing.

I don’t play games to get serious about heated battles over pixels. When i play WvW i go with small groups that cap camps, take out dolyaks and harass fortifications. When it’s starts getting too serious and people are “not following some master plan”, that’s when i bail. I’m all about team play, but i’m not going to get barked at by some jerk with a blue tag.

I just haven’t seen this all that often. As said before, “more often than not,” death (for me) seems to come from facing insurmountable opposition in the form of numbers, not being outplayed. I am not saying that it doesn’t happen, just doesnt seem to be the norm (which I believe it should be for any form of PvP), or even all that common from my experience.

Basically every time I die in WvW is because I leave the zerg, go roaming and some troll glass thief comes along and ganks me, or yes when the odds are completely stacked, but that’s normally just in guild raids where we see a giant blob, run in thinking why the hell not and then get wasted because the odds were like 7:1 because most of our guys went to bed earlier.

Success in WvW seems to be more about, “git thur fustest with the mostest,” than, “Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate.”

Why are you trying to use poor spelling to try and emphasise your point on WvW just being brainless?

And yes, there are times where when stacking behind a corner the commander explicitly says “don’t reveal yourself”, they have no idea we’re coming, we veil, storm in and the enemy zerg gets obliterated. There absolutely is room for tactics in WvW, people just seem to be stuck in the mentality that it’s purely just mindless zergs crashing in to each other when there’s more to it than that.

As for you WvW ‘vets’ who think PvE’ers are a bunch of care bears, afraid of a fight, I can only laugh. It is you lot who have to be rezzed and carried though dungeon cos your crappy WvW builds cannot deal with trash mobs and bosses. So please, leave dungeons to PvE players who know what they are doing and don’t need a blue icon telling them what to do.

I have full berserker for PvE/dungeons and spent ~35g on WvW raid gear. Sure, carry on thinking that all WvW players just go in to PvE with the same gear rather than … strangely, enough, having a set of gear for each game mode. I even reset my traits when going between modes.

colesy.8490:

I just haven’t seen this all that often. As said before, “more often than not,” death (for me) seems to come from facing insurmountable opposition in the form of numbers, not being outplayed. I am not saying that it doesn’t happen, just doesnt seem to be the norm (which I believe it should be for any form of PvP), or even all that common from my experience.

Basically every time I die in WvW is because I leave the zerg, go roaming and some troll glass thief comes along and ganks me, or yes when the odds are completely stacked, but that’s normally just in guild raids where we see a giant blob, run in thinking why the hell not and then get wasted because the odds were like 7:1 because most of our guys went to bed earlier.

Success in WvW seems to be more about, “git thur fustest with the mostest,” than, “Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate.”

Why are you trying to use poor spelling to try and emphasise your point on WvW just being brainless?

And yes, there are times where when stacking behind a corner the commander explicitly says “don’t reveal yourself”, they have no idea we’re coming, we veil, storm in and the enemy zerg gets obliterated. There absolutely is room for tactics in WvW, people just seem to be stuck in the mentality that it’s purely just mindless zergs crashing in to each other when there’s more to it than that.

You express it very well. There is room for tactics, but much (most ?) of the current iteration of the game mode is stuck in zergs.

I used quotation marks because I was quoting someone else (two of them actually). In the case of the misspelling I was quoting one of the most successful military leaders of his age, who was most certainly not at all brainless.

Wvw certainly has room for tactics. For example, zerg a has 50 players, while zerg b only has 30. A clash happened. Zerg B won. Why? Can be a multitude of reasons: players coordinating well, putting down appropriate skills in a timely manner (chain veil, chain null fields, chain healing blast finishers, chain banners), more appropriately geared (majority in toughness/survivability gear), superior tactics (going as a ball, knowing how to exploit turns in a road, height, targetted/coordinated attacks, weaving, etc), siege support, etc. And this is all just in a zerg. Being in wvw, you can either solo-roam, group roam, sentry, scout, harass, snipe yaks, etc. It does get a bit stale after doing it so often, that’s why i’m hoping the changes to the orbs will make things interesting again.

To be honest, if you guys want to see tactics just watch some Red Guard videos.

I have mostly done PVE through out this game until 5 weeks ago when i finished my legendary. Since then i have drifted more into wvw resulting in getting my alt elementalist from 30 to 80 in wvw only and the past 2 weeks all i have done is get my daily done in pve and spend the rest of my time in wvw.
I actually quite enjoy the wvw way more than i thought i would have and i must admit ive been impressed with some of the commanders there and there tactics.
So if you see an asura firing unicorns on deso server thats me^^

Zaxares.5419:

Honestly? I don’t think you’d ever be able to convert a PvE’er who wasn’t already into WvW as well. The holdouts are people who just do not like to PvP; they don’t like competing against other people, and they most certainly do not like being attacked by other players.

As long as WvW holds the risk of being attacked and killed by other players, you will never get these PvE’ers into WvW. (And of course, if you remove that, then it’s not really WvW anymore.)

This post completely and correctly sums up my feelings as a dedicated PVE’er. I enter WvW only as a shortcut to LA (taking care to leave it ASAP so as not to hinder my team) and because map completion requires me to.

Obviously, I cannot answer the original question completely but I can give one suggestion; and that would be not to make the Obsidian Sanctum a PVP area. Forcing PVE’ers to enter the Obsidian Sanctum to complete an extremely long and frustrating jumping puzzle (in which they find themselves alone and vulnerable most of the time) and most recently, to find a kite, is forcing them into an area more suitable for griefing. IMO, you don’t really learn any WvW tactics from going through the Obsidian Sanctum except to experience ‘getting griefed’ if you’re unlucky. This does not reflect the real WvW experience and certainly would not contribute to a favorable impression of WvW. I’ve completed it myself one fine day when my server held sway over WvW but you can see the complaints on the forum over the Obsidian Sanctum.

Yes, I know Obsidian Sanctum is optional but if you’re a fan of JPs or trying to get the relevant achievements, you’d feel compelled to visit it.