Guild Wars 2

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

Well, when I go to the club, I like to just listen to the music and dance. I hate it when people come up and just start rubbing themselves all over you.

Storyline or quests. Don’t make me just hunt thousands of Glacer Golems and hope a lodestone will drop. Give me a quest that will be incredibly challenging and give me at least half of what I’m going to have to grind for. A little grinding is inevitable, but the amount needed for certain items that only drop from 1 or 2 enemies is silly. There are so many things that could be tied into dungeons, personal story, and even whatever is going on monthly!

‘Grinding’ is a way for developers to create hours upon hours of playtime based on little content. It can be very lazy design.

I don’t mind grinding in itself, as long as it is optional for most of it. That’s why I like GW2’s approach. The game allows you to choose how you want to progress, whereas a lot of other games force you into the ‘grind’.

For me, an MMO is about immersion and gameplay. Not being forced to grind to be able to continue to grind for the next equipment, after which I have to grind etc.

I believe that people are just lazy in today’s world, that is all it is plain and simple—LAZINESS.

If people weren’t lazy you wouldn’t have so many people complaining about such simple tasks like daily’s or monthly’s, which both can be completed in less than 3 hours of work. Daily’s can be completed within an hour and Monthly’s can be completed in 3 hours.

Other complaints about grinding stems from people wanting the same gear as the best person, because KIDS are taught this now days. In sports EVERYONE gets a trophy whether they win or lose, because some parent thought it would be a good idea to have “participation” awards for children so they don’t get laughed at. So it drains the competition factor out of society itself, whenever this happened.

Getting to the final point. This is a game, yes it is there for YOU to have fun. However, it is not there for YOU to complain about wanting it YOUR way. If YOU want to work at something and get what someone else has then do it; if not then don’t.

I wish people would stop complaining about “grindiness” just because they only get 2 hours a day or 5 hours a week to play. My wife plays less than 1 hour a day and she is perfectly content with the game, she knows that she will never have the best gear, will never be the best at her class, and that doesn’t detour her from playing.

HARDCORE players is how games make money. CASUAL players is how games make money. You have to satisfy both parties to get the most money, but you can’t because if hardcore players have better gear than casuals, the casuals complain; ultimately leading to the hardcore players leaving the game. It’s all about compromise and I believe A-Net has done that with ascended gear. Hardcore players can get better gear than casual players with more effort and casual players can get the same get with little effort.

There is no “gear grind” like in other games, where the only thing in the game is better gear. Should there be? Yes, in all honesty you have to work to have something to achieve otherwise you lose customers. Will this result in some type of grind? Yes it will.

However, have you ever looked at it this way…Real life is a grind that you have to do EVERYDAY of your LIFE. It’s not a job, it’s called LIVING. Welcome to the Real World where everything is a grind. Want a better car? Work (grind) for it. Want to eat? Cook something (grind). Want to complain about something in a video game? Sure go for it (grind).

EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS A GRIND! GET OVER YOURSELF YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!

There have been some posts in the suggestions forums suggesting that rather than making it a material grind, ANet should have made it a storyline/quest mission instead to achieve legendaries, for example. I would definitely prefer this.

Whether you like it or not, there will always be grind in any MMO.

You can take the most interesting, best MMO out there with a wide variety of activities and there will still be people out there who will find the most rewarding and efficient activity out there.

Not to mention it is extremely impossible to construct content that is new and interesting for the life-time of a game.

I remember Anet saying they didnt want the player to have to grind in Guild Wars2…..in their BS “Manifesto” video.

I swung a sword, hey look I swung it again…..guess what Colin…we have done that same grind a million times now… You must have been predicting the future

I know that grind happens, but some grind could be eased a bit.
Let’s take my current object of obsession for example:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flameseeker_Prophecies

I want that shield. The tie to the old GW1 is there, it looks nice, and darn it the book glows!

Now let’s look at the requirements.
Max out Tailor and Weaponsmithing Okay I can do that, a little grind but worthwhile.
The Precursor shield ‘The Chosen’ Getting this is an adventure in itself, but they could have just as easily required 1 exotic shield and be done with it.

Gift of the Flameseeker Prophecies Which is made by two Gifts, 100 Runestones (they could have removed this really), and a Sigil I can hardly find in the blasted game.
The Gifts that make this one are just collections of materials and dungeon trophies. That’s not too bad for a PvE exclusive guy like myself.

Gift of Fortune This requires quite a number of high end tier materials, but I can get them by farming a bit here and there. No problem really.

Gift of Might See Fortune, same thing really.

Gift of Mastery Here’s where I throw down my flag, we don’t need this. In order to get this I have to explore all the world (I’m planning on anyways) but I have to win or participate in elements of WvWvW for this. Yes I could get some drops from Twilight Arbor, but honestly this is a mostly PvP-style reward that really shouldn’t be needed.

Badges of Honor shouldn’t be a requirement, or make it with a viable switch instead. That way I don’t have to earn BoH, but something else. Even better just remove the Mastery Gift requirement.

I agree with some of these posters, have rewards that contribute to the base requirements of a Legendaries series. That way if the player wants it they can continue onwards with the grind, if not then hey they got cool stuff for whatever they want to do.

Maybe if they gave us event chains that are [I]difficult[/I] as heck to accomplish, but reward us with some things (like the Precursors instead of this rare drop rate thing for them) there would be a better engaging grind instead of the soul-crushing grind.

However I know that my example is for the Legendary, which is a item that is a testament to either lots of time focused on the game or lots of money to buy it.

And I know I could just Trading Post a lot of this, but I don’t and I will try not to in the future because it feels like a cheap win for me at least. Kudos to those with that kind of coin, but I won’t have it.

Finally I do want to touch on this quote:

EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS A GRIND! GET OVER YOURSELF YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!

Yes life is a grind, but games are escapism. We really shouldn’t have to grind horribly towards our fun.

GamerToukotsu.4219:

I believe that people are just lazy in today’s world, that is all it is plain and simple—LAZINESS.

XD;; Everything you just said, I sorta agree. People don’t like being displeased, uncomfortable, or frustrated. But that is simply life, if a game didn’t do this, I don’t know how you would be having fun 24/7. That is just not possible.

Also a lot of people replying had some good answers, like more ‘story modes’ and ‘challenges’. Yeah I’d like that too! However, these types of things actually take a lot of time. Making one zone for this game i bet took a couple of months of planning, testing, thinking, and making. Trust me, i’m partly in the field. So when you consume content at such a fast pace, expect boredom to hit you hard.

Lazmira.5408:

GamerToukotsu.4219:

I believe that people are just lazy in today’s world, that is all it is plain and simple—LAZINESS.

XD;; Everything you just said, I sorta agree. People don’t like being displeased, uncomfortable, or frustrated. But that is simply life, if a game didn’t’ do this, I don’t know how you would be having fun 24/7. That is just not possible.

Also a lot of people replying had some good answers, like more ‘story modes’ and ‘challenges’. Yeah I’d like that too! However, these types of things actually take a lot of time. Trust me, i’m partly in the field. So when you consume content at such a fast pace, expect boredom to hit you hard.

Or…some aren’t lazy …they just don’t like being lied to be the people who made this game and all the lofty false promises they gave us during development cycle…and they still have the gull to think they pulled through on all these promises…then again Im sure they cant come out and say “we screwed up”…

Atlas.9704:

I know that grind happens, but some grind could be eased a bit.
Let’s take my current object of obsession for example:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flameseeker_Prophecies

I agree, they could tone is down a bit but I think the whole reason of legendaries was to make it extremely hard for the hardcore player base. I mean I won’t get a legendary because I just don’t have time, but that doesn’t mean i have to have it. That’s the thing, it’s not a game changer. Desires can be tossed out.

I mean there will be more weapons and armor coming out that could look just as awesome or even better and may be easier. Just because it’s hard to get doesn’t make it amazing.

My problem with the ‘grind’ in this game is the huuge gap between Exotics and Legendaries. Exotics are ridiculously easy to get and then you have to farm endlessly to get an exotic.

I’d prefer to receive small incremental upgrades every time I play (or after every week of play or something).

Though, I get that is not what this game is about as they are trying to avoid a ‘gear grind’. I think we just have different views on what a grind is. Personally, I find incremental upgrades rewarding and tedious farming a grind.

[/quote]Or…some aren’t lazy …they just don’t like being lied to be the people who made this game and all the lofty false promises they gave us during development cycle…and they still have the gull to think they pulled through on all these promises…then again Im sure they cant come out and say “we screwed up”… [/quote]

Seriously, I haven’t been on a game that has not screwed up on something. Every game company is run by humans, we make mistakes constantly. Yeah you guys can hold on to the whole ‘they lied to us! ’ speech but it won’t change anything. I’ve already let it go because they already know what they want to do to this game, I mean if something is bothering you terribly with the game, put it in the suggestions. At least you tried right? If they don’t take it, don’t take it personally. Just sometimes things will go your way, and sometimes they won’t.

Lazmira.5408:

Atlas.9704:

I know that grind happens, but some grind could be eased a bit.
Let’s take my current object of obsession for example:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flameseeker_Prophecies

I agree, they could tone is down a bit but I think the whole reason of legendaries was to make it extremely hard for the hardcore player base. I mean I won’t get a legendary because I just don’t have time, but that doesn’t mean i have to have it. That’s the thing, it’s not a game changer. Desires can be tossed out.

I mean there will be more weapons and armor coming out that could look just as awesome or even better and may be easier. Just because it’s hard to get doesn’t make it amazing.

True, but within the MMO mindset that everyone has it is these trophies that make the grind noticeable. Yes they cater somewhat to the hardcore folks with it.

I’ve leveled up to 80 with one character, approaching mid 50’s on another, and the others are low 30’s to high 40’s at the time of this posting. I have one for each class and I have not noticed a grind at all with the story or the events, because I tend to enjoy the little things about them.

So when people talk about ‘the grind’ of this game I tend to associate it with the big ticket items that are going to have the grind anyways.

Why I hate to grind? well I also play a bit of Diablo3 (yes yes im a bad person or whatever) but the grind in that is horrible. Spend so much time killing and killing waiting for that thrill from the flash of orange that I get bored of waiting.

T1-3 should have better drop rates IMO and T6 are kitten rare, Ive not got a craft up to T6 stuff so I assume it follows prior lvls patterns.

[/quote]

So when people talk about ‘the grind’ of this game I tend to associate it with the big ticket items that are going to have the grind anyways.[/quote]

Yeah I completely agree with that! I think people just need to realize though that these items are simply just.. ‘items’. You could quit and come back to find even more awesome stuff that will be better than that item you grinded way back for so long. It’s the mentality that they think they have to complete the game with said ‘item’.

Lazmira.5408:

Yeah I completely agree with that! I think people just need to realize though that these items are simply just.. ‘items’. You could quit and come back to find even more awesome stuff that will be better than that item you grinded way back for so long. It’s the mentality that they think they have to complete the game with said ‘item’.

And you’ve basically explained the Skinner Box that is our, and practically everyone else’s, MMO system.

Atlas.9704:

Lazmira.5408:

Yeah I completely agree with that! I think people just need to realize though that these items are simply just.. ‘items’. You could quit and come back to find even more awesome stuff that will be better than that item you grinded way back for so long. It’s the mentality that they think they have to complete the game with said ‘item’.

And you’ve basically explained the Skinner Box that is our, and practically everyone else’s, MMO system.

You know what’s creepy too? Life is a giant Skinner box system… xD!

Well I’ve always thought of life as a huge STD with a 100% death rate. :p

People comparing real life to a game….not so much
People defining laziness as not wanting to do repetative tasks for hours & hours & hours that eventually become not enjoyable….not so much
People comparing themselves or their girlfriends to everyone and thinking their anecdotal evidence is law….not so much
People who like grinding acting completely baffled that everyone else doesn’t feel the same way they do….not so much
People who don’t know what the definition of grinding is…..not so much

Caring about what everyone else thinks or says or spouts off in forums about how others should play….not so much

This is probably the least grindy game I have ever played, the experience gathering is so organic and diverse it never feels like a grind, and kill the same monster hundreds of times is probably the least efficient way to level.

I like to grind before bed.

Seras.5702:

People comparing real life to a game….not so much
People defining laziness as not wanting to do repetative tasks for hours & hours & hours that eventually become not enjoyable….not so much
People comparing themselves or their girlfriends to everyone and thinking their anecdotal evidence is law….not so much
People who like grinding acting completely baffled that everyone else doesn’t feel the same way they do….not so much
People who don’t know what the definition of grinding is…..not so much

Caring about what everyone else thinks or says or spouts off in forums about how others should play….not so much

That’s actually a pretty awesome reply! I must say, it’s true, why should it matter so much? I’m not trying to say my point is right in any way, i’m just wanting to know the other side of why people don’t like it. I’m not baffled at all because I see this quite a lot and i’m getting pretty confused, so why not ask? I’m going to of course state my own opinions because it’s a discussion thread right? Seriously if you give me really good points, i’ll agree with you. However stereotyping people and how they act isn’t the best route to go, just saying.

I think you’re right, why repeat the same thing over and over again? I guess that’s because it’s a game. Even in the old games, you would repeat levels you use to love to play. It’s also true, why compare a game to real life? We really shouldn’t. However I find it unrealistic to believe you can be happy and excited for countless of hours on a game.

Angelus.1042:

Lazmira.5408:

GamerToukotsu.4219:

I believe that people are just lazy in today’s world, that is all it is plain and simple—LAZINESS.

XD;; Everything you just said, I sorta agree. People don’t like being displeased, uncomfortable, or frustrated. But that is simply life, if a game didn’t’ do this, I don’t know how you would be having fun 24/7. That is just not possible.

Also a lot of people replying had some good answers, like more ‘story modes’ and ‘challenges’. Yeah I’d like that too! However, these types of things actually take a lot of time. Trust me, i’m partly in the field. So when you consume content at such a fast pace, expect boredom to hit you hard.

Or…some aren’t lazy …they just don’t like being lied to be the people who made this game and all the lofty false promises they gave us during development cycle…and they still have the gull to think they pulled through on all these promises…then again Im sure they cant come out and say “we screwed up”…

This just shows how naive they really are..this is a company ran by stakeholders. Stakeholders want to make money, how can they make money by keeping promises that truthfully could never be kept in the first place. If you think they lied to you about creating a different MMO, there is the door don’t let it hit you on the kitten on the way out. All companies lie in some form or another, it’s human nature. No they didn’t “screw up” they made a different MMO which they promised. Even if they did promise a “no grind game” they are not forcing you to play this game, for kitten sake you aren’t even paying a subscription fee which gives you ZERO right to complain about being lied to. This is an EVOLVING game, it have to EVOLVE to SURVIVE.

If people can’t see how evolving into the concept of a small grind from daily’s or monthly’s which take less time to complete than completing, Lornar’s Pass map completion, then they are really and truthfully naive.

Games must evolve to survive, just as nature must evolve to survive.

Note: You have been lied more times than you realize in your life. At least they are TRYING to make the game better than their competitors and guess what—it is by far the best game out there.

GamerToukotsu.4219:

daily’s or monthly’s, which both can be completed in less than 3 hours of work

I play a game to have fun, not to have an extra job.

IronPlushy.4256:

This is probably the least grindy game I have ever played, the experience gathering is so organic and diverse it never feels like a grind, and kill the same monster hundreds of times is probably the least efficient way to level.

I don’t think he’s talking about levelling, but more about grinding gold or materials to make weapons (including legendaries)

GW2 is the least grindy MMO I’ve ever played. Nothing ever felt like a grind to me.

Other than getting a legendary, which is VERY grindy and very, very, very boring; but I chose not to pursue that too actively. So it’s probably not going to happen. (At my own non-grinding rates, it will take me years.)

Charming Rogue.8071:

GamerToukotsu.4219:

daily’s or monthly’s, which both can be completed in less than 3 hours of work

I play a game to have fun, not to have an extra job.

IronPlushy.4256:

This is probably the least grindy game I have ever played, the experience gathering is so organic and diverse it never feels like a grind, and kill the same monster hundreds of times is probably the least efficient way to level.

I don’t think he’s talking about levelling, but more about grinding gold or materials to make weapons (including legendaries)

That not a job a job is something you must do work beyond the work day that you do for 40 hr ish a week. A job has a lot of the way you see your self and how you treat others. To call 3hr of game play a job make me question what do you call a job in the first places.

This game isn’t as grindy as the rest of the games I have played out there. You just make it a grind by limiting yourself in the types of activities you engage in. I don’t do PvP or WvWvW so my time playing is slightly bland, but that doesn’t keep me from playing because there is ALOT to do. By doing everything save the two mentioned, I have gotten far for my time playing. It wasn’t because I grind, its because I didn’t limit myself.

Atlas.9704:

[snip]…
Yes life is a grind, but games are escapism. We really shouldn’t have to grind horribly towards our fun.

Then don’t. Find a new definition of fun.

There is absolutely nothing in this game that requires you to have a Legendary. You are not locked out from experiencing any area of the game for failing to have a Legendary. It gives you no measurable, statistical advantage over any other player; it’s the equivalent of an exotic item in stats. Even if the day comes that Legendaries are upgraded to match the stats of Ascended weapons, there will be cheaper ways to obtain Ascended weapons with equivalent stats.

ArenaNet is not making you grind for anything; Legendary, dailies, laurels, etc. You are choosing to grind for these items and achievements because you have decided to place an arbitrary value on them. When you made the choice to equate having fun in GW2 as obtaining a Legendary, then you accepted the associated cost (grinding). If you don’t want to bear that cost, then don’t engage in that activity. However, you’ll then have to accept that you aren’t going to earn a Legendary, either.

The argument that players find the grind required to obtain Legendaries or earn Laurels for Ascended items onerous is without merit. If you want something in the game that you have chosen to place a value on, you’re going to have to work for it (work being defined as spending a certain amount of time performing specific tasks). If you don’t like those tasks, you’re entitled to that opinion. If you want the items associated with those tasks, though, then you have to jump through the hoops required to obtain them.

ArenaNet isn’t forcing you to do any of this; you’re choosing to do it to yourself. If you’re not enjoying it, then either it’s time to do a little honest self-assessment surrounding what motivates you to play this game or find another game that is more in sync with your definition of fun. If you’re a slave to your own desires, that’s not ArenaNet’s responsibility; that’s your’s.

For the record, “No, I do not have a Legendary”. I have no interest whatsoever; never have, never will. I examined it and saw it for what it is; a grind designed to keep you putting hours into the game for very little return of fun (however you choose to define “fun”) and zero return of any concrete in-game advantage outside of cosmetic bragging rights over a bunch of colored pixels.

Seen in this light, Legendaries benefit ArenaNet more than the player base by keeping the segment that pursues these carrots-on-a-stick logged in and playing long past the point of it being fun. Even so, you can never forget that you chose this. If you don’t like it, then un-choose it and find something else to do in the game for fun. If you can’t find anything outside of the pursuit of a Legendary (or laurels for Ascended items, or any other arbitrary goal), then maybe that’s your answer right there.

I play WvWvW almost exclusively. The price of admission (assuming a person is playing to the objectives of the WvWvW arena as designed) is siege weapons and upgrades to fortifications. I’ve chosen WvWvW as my definition of fun inside the game and those things are the associated cost; they weren’t hidden from me. I don’t complain that I’m being made to “grind” PvE to earn the coins needed for these purchases. I’ve made the choice to do this and I’m responsible for that choice. I earn the coins I need then get back to playing WvWvW.

It’s the old argument of the journey versus the destination. If the destination is your goal, but you hate the journey required to get there, then what exactly about the destination is so worthwhile? We do this in real life to meet basic necessities of food, clothing, and shelter; enduring jobs we may hate to earn the money we need simply to survive. In a game, however, such exigencies don’t exist; you don’t have to endure a journey you don’t enjoy just to reach an arbitrary destination. So why do so many players continue to do this but then try to blame anything but themselves for making this choice?

I don’t mind doing things I enjoy for extended periods of time, as long as the reward is commensurate with the time spent.

I enjoy Penet/Shelt/Jofast and Plinx runs. I hate having so much downtime in-between sometimes, especially when Plinx bugs. Before they fixed the drop-rate and drop-qualification issues, even though I enjoyed them, the rewards were too bad to not be frustrated by the lack of progress for time.

I enjoyed the dungeon from F&F, but having to wait for the whole group to wipe to respawn makes it too frustrating to grind (and I wasn’t always the first one down, at times I was the last guy running around trying to shave that last sliver off a boss before getting teleported on and dying). If you always have this great group of guildies, then that may not be an issue, but for those of us that are Independents, that is a real problem.

Which brings us to requiring mass dungeon tokens to finish a legendary, that is going to be an unpleasant grind, which I’m not going to enjoy. Same with WvWvW.

I do not mind a grind. What I loathe is the stupid RNG with everything. Fractal weapons are a stupid grind. If I had to do 50 fractals for a Weapon that would be ok. But i could do 500 (i am nearing 800 or so done and no weapon I want and only 3 total)

same for the rocket backpack. I would do that underground instance 50 times-100 times for a backpack but it will probably never drop with my rng “luck”

Angelus.1042:

I remember Anet saying they didnt want the player to have to grind in Guild Wars2…..in their BS “Manifesto” video.

I swung a sword, hey look I swung it again…..guess what Colin…we have done that same grind a million times now… You must have been predicting the future

The manifesto isn’t BS. But your understanding of what was being said in the manifesto is certainly questionable. It’s so good when people take a quote out of context and twist it to mean what they mean. There were four problems in the manifesto and of them, only one of them was “marketspeak” and could conceivably be termed as BS. That’s the line “We take everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and put it into a persistent world.” Clearly impossible since different people loved different things about Guild Wars 1 and if everything was put in, then we’d have Guild Wars 1. I mean what if someone liked the world being non-persistent. Then that wouldn’t be true. But aside from that, everything else in the manifesto is actually something that is in the game.

Colin was talking about grinding to level like in many asian MMOs, including AIon. You ran out of quests at one point and you just had to kill stuff. The last line of the paragraph you curiously ommited, was “I swung a sword, I swung it again, hey I swung it again! That’s just great. We don’t want people to grind in Guild Wars 2, no one likes grinding, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way people view COMBAT”.

See that word combat at the end of the sentence. He’s talking about making combat fun. Now YOU might not like the combat, but plenty of people in this game do like it, because it’s mobile. You can move around, cast on the move, swap weapons (or attunements or kits if you’re an ele or engie)…all that is true. For many, this is the most fun combat they’ve ever had in an MMO. It says nothing in the manifesto about vertical progression. It says nothing in the manifesto about gear progression or gear grind.

The only other confusion in the manifesto was put to rest shortly after it’s release by a post on Guild Wars 2 guru about the manifesto because there was some confusion about it. Colin was talking about DEs and Ree was talking about personal story. Due to editing, it made what they were saying sound completely impossible. How can you have a persistent world and still have each player being able to change it. Clearly you can’t. But once you see one is talking about DEs and one is talking about PS then it’s actually quite clear…and Anet was the one who clarified it.

People are so fast to call BS. I think people need to stop ignoring context.

Money should be easier to get, while trading post should have fixed limits

Tier 6 and lodestones should be as they were at the games opening

DR should be removed

Magic find should be removed and loot tables corrected

Gear should be acquired as per Guildwars 1

GamerToukotsu.4219:

I believe that people are just lazy in today’s world, that is all it is plain and simple—LAZINESS.

If people weren’t lazy you wouldn’t have so many people complaining about such simple tasks like daily’s or monthly’s, which both can be completed in less than 3 hours of work. Daily’s can be completed within an hour and Monthly’s can be completed in 3 hours.

Other complaints about grinding stems from people wanting the same gear as the best person, because KIDS are taught this now days. In sports EVERYONE gets a trophy whether they win or lose, because some parent thought it would be a good idea to have “participation” awards for children so they don’t get laughed at. So it drains the competition factor out of society itself, whenever this happened.

Getting to the final point. This is a game, yes it is there for YOU to have fun. However, it is not there for YOU to complain about wanting it YOUR way. If YOU want to work at something and get what someone else has then do it; if not then don’t.

I wish people would stop complaining about “grindiness” just because they only get 2 hours a day or 5 hours a week to play. My wife plays less than 1 hour a day and she is perfectly content with the game, she knows that she will never have the best gear, will never be the best at her class, and that doesn’t detour her from playing.

HARDCORE players is how games make money. CASUAL players is how games make money. You have to satisfy both parties to get the most money, but you can’t because if hardcore players have better gear than casuals, the casuals complain; ultimately leading to the hardcore players leaving the game. It’s all about compromise and I believe A-Net has done that with ascended gear. Hardcore players can get better gear than casual players with more effort and casual players can get the same get with little effort.

There is no “gear grind” like in other games, where the only thing in the game is better gear. Should there be? Yes, in all honesty you have to work to have something to achieve otherwise you lose customers. Will this result in some type of grind? Yes it will.

However, have you ever looked at it this way…Real life is a grind that you have to do EVERYDAY of your LIFE. It’s not a job, it’s called LIVING. Welcome to the Real World where everything is a grind. Want a better car? Work (grind) for it. Want to eat? Cook something (grind). Want to complain about something in a video game? Sure go for it (grind).

EVERYTHING IN LIFE IS A GRIND! GET OVER YOURSELF YOU ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!

i feel bad for you

GamerToukotsu.4219:

I believe that people are just lazy in today’s world, that is all it is plain and simple—LAZINESS.

This argument is so false.

Allow me to pose a hypothetical: You’re given the task of stapling 100 sheets of paper together in groups of 2. That’s 50 staples. Is it hard? Not really. Is it time consuming? Not really. Now, imagine you were asked to staple 1000000 sheets of paper together in groups of 2. Is it hard? No, it’s just stapling paper. Is it time consuming? Yes. That’s a lot of paper. Do you feel accomplished after all that? No, probably not. It’s just way more paper stuck together than you had before. Time taken != Reward

It has nothing to do with laziness. It has everything to do with the fact that they’re adding zeros in order to make it take more time, which takes away from the sense of reward that you’re supposed to get in a game. At that point, it’s no longer a game. It’s a chore. A boring, drawn out chore for a reward that’s a bunch of 0’s and 1’s on a server somewhere. It’s a game. It’s not supposed to be a chore, it’s supposed to be entertainment.

I’m sure the people you call “lazy” work hard in their jobs, or in school, or what have you, and will put effort into something that will reward them for it.

I wonder how many people actually realize that the “grind” is for a Legendary weapon have the same stats as exotics, and that it is merely a long time-sink to get a weapon skin that doesn’t even look that good.

Seriously, SAB skins are better than some of the Legendary weapons out there…

lookitsandrea.8531:

There have been some posts in the suggestions forums suggesting that rather than making it a material grind, ANet should have made it a storyline/quest mission instead to achieve legendaries, for example. I would definitely prefer this.

A legendary item is legendary because a very small percentage of the player base should be able to get it. How do you make a quest so long and so hard that 90% of all players would never complete it?

Dante.1508:

Money should be easier to get, while trading post should have fixed limits

you’re talking about creating massive inflation. Do you know anything about the economy?

Dante.1508:

Tier 6 and lodestones should be as they were at the games opening

you know why the price has changed? Because more people have more access to money and are outbidding each other when it comes to rare mats. This already contradicts your first sentence. You can’t have cheap mats and lots of money.

Dante.1508:

DR should be removed

So an MMO that takes an active stance against grinding and even advertises as such should stop it, because you said so?

Dante.1508:

Magic find should be removed and loot tables corrected

If they would remove mf they would leave us all with the same chance as we have now. If they increased our chance, more items would drop, more people would sell, more items would become devalued (look at what’s happening with rares right now. You can get 14 silver for a rare max on Underworld), less people would have access to money.

Dante.1508:

Gear should be acquired as per Guildwars 1

no-one would have armor then.

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

Heres the way I feel about this game and the vast majority of other games on the market right now. I have alot of money to spend. Id more than happily spend thousands of dollars (@maybe $100-$200 a week) playing a game. But in order for me to spend that much, they need to have enough new content to keep me constantly engaged. That just doesn’t happen. The “grind” is directly (or maybe indirectly) implemented and related to how much development a game gets. The more "grind"there is, the less I like the game and the less money I put into it. This is an attitude I have pretty much ever had for every game Ive played since the 90s. And yeah I played games in the 80s too, but that wasn’t really an issue back then :p

sostronk.8167:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

Heres the way I feel about this game and the vast majority of other games on the market right now. I have alot of money to spend. Id more than happily spend thousands of dollars (@maybe $100-$200 a week) playing a game. But in order for me to spend that much, they need to have enough new content to keep me constantly engaged. That just doesn’t happen. The “grind” is directly (or maybe indirectly) implemented and related to how much development a game gets. The more "grind"there is, the less I like the game and the less money I put into it. This is an attitude I have pretty much ever had for every game Ive played since the 90s. And yeah I played games in the 80s too, but that wasn’t really an issue back then :p

then you should have come to a decision that the only games worth playing are Minecraft and Kerbal Space program?

Mirta.5029:

sostronk.8167:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

Heres the way I feel about this game and the vast majority of other games on the market right now. I have alot of money to spend. Id more than happily spend thousands of dollars (@maybe $100-$200 a week) playing a game. But in order for me to spend that much, they need to have enough new content to keep me constantly engaged. That just doesn’t happen. The “grind” is directly (or maybe indirectly) implemented and related to how much development a game gets. The more "grind"there is, the less I like the game and the less money I put into it. This is an attitude I have pretty much ever had for every game Ive played since the 90s. And yeah I played games in the 80s too, but that wasn’t really an issue back then :p

then you should have come to a decision that the only games worth playing are Minecraft and Kerbal Space program?

I don’t know what Kerbal Space program is but I know what Minecraft is and that game looks terrible. My brother used to play that game and video stream it. Never really got what people liked about it. Im pretty sure some of the games from the 80s had more pixels than minecraft :p

sostronk.8167:

Mirta.5029:

sostronk.8167:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

Heres the way I feel about this game and the vast majority of other games on the market right now. I have alot of money to spend. Id more than happily spend thousands of dollars (@maybe $100-$200 a week) playing a game. But in order for me to spend that much, they need to have enough new content to keep me constantly engaged. That just doesn’t happen. The “grind” is directly (or maybe indirectly) implemented and related to how much development a game gets. The more "grind"there is, the less I like the game and the less money I put into it. This is an attitude I have pretty much ever had for every game Ive played since the 90s. And yeah I played games in the 80s too, but that wasn’t really an issue back then :p

then you should have come to a decision that the only games worth playing are Minecraft and Kerbal Space program?

I don’t know what Kerbal Space program is but I know what Minecraft is and that game looks terrible. My brother used to play that game and video stream it. Never really got what people liked about it. Im pretty sure some of the games from the 80s had more pixels than minecraft :p

it’s not about the graphics but rather about what you can do in the game. It’s a sandbox survival/building world, where people use their imagination to create fancy systems. Like for example, elevators!
Kerbal Space Program is a space simulator, where people build rockets, planes, anything they can imagine and try to reach different planets in the most efficient way possible.
These are the only two games that I know off that received (and still receive) constant updates. For most games even a payed expansion only comes out once a year.

Mirta.5029:

sostronk.8167:

Mirta.5029:

sostronk.8167:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

Heres the way I feel about this game and the vast majority of other games on the market right now. I have alot of money to spend. Id more than happily spend thousands of dollars (@maybe $100-$200 a week) playing a game. But in order for me to spend that much, they need to have enough new content to keep me constantly engaged. That just doesn’t happen. The “grind” is directly (or maybe indirectly) implemented and related to how much development a game gets. The more "grind"there is, the less I like the game and the less money I put into it. This is an attitude I have pretty much ever had for every game Ive played since the 90s. And yeah I played games in the 80s too, but that wasn’t really an issue back then :p

then you should have come to a decision that the only games worth playing are Minecraft and Kerbal Space program?

I don’t know what Kerbal Space program is but I know what Minecraft is and that game looks terrible. My brother used to play that game and video stream it. Never really got what people liked about it. Im pretty sure some of the games from the 80s had more pixels than minecraft :p

it’s not about the graphics but rather about what you can do in the game. It’s a sandbox survival/building world, where people use their imagination to create fancy systems. Like for example, elevators!
Kerbal Space Program is a space simulator, where people build rockets, planes, anything they can imagine and try to reach different planets in the most efficient way possible.
These are the only two games that I know off that received (and still receive) constant updates. For most games even a payed expansion only comes out once a year.

Taking a look at Kerbal Space Program now. It isn’t completely terrible, but its not really my gaming style. I like PvP and other features in a game and never really been into "simulator"type games. Probably the game I have like most in the last ~10 years is League of Legends. Im tempted to give this Kerbal Space program a go though

the problem isnt so much grind imho its RNG grind where your not guaranteed anything for your effort

x grind = y reward is fine as anyone who puts in the time gets the reward an example of this would be something like getting a dungeon set for tokens

whats not fine is X grind = Y reward for Player A
and X grind = 1/4 Y reward for Player B

or if your stuck with DR X grind = 20 porous bones

Where is this grindy content you talk about? These are the GW2 forums, not <other game>. All grind in this game is optional.

ZBoss.5610:

Storyline or quests. Don’t make me just hunt thousands of Glacer Golems and hope a lodestone will drop. Give me a quest that will be incredibly challenging and give me at least half of what I’m going to have to grind for. A little grinding is inevitable, but the amount needed for certain items that only drop from 1 or 2 enemies is silly. There are so many things that could be tied into dungeons, personal story, and even whatever is going on monthly!

This guy has it – to get a precursor, for example, should be something like a 700hr quest line, that you reliably get a reward from.

The fractal gear to me is also a prime example – you do the fractals, to achieve the AR you need to… do the fractals? And it’s a bleeding gear treadmill? (something we were told, for 6 years, wouldn’t exist.) If they peak at ascended, it’s no big deal – primarily because they already lost a huge chunk of players over it, those of us who are left either a)don’t care about the ascended stuff, b) are willing to get them slowly through dailies, c) are willing to grind, grind, grind the fractals.

Any content that right now is rewarded through RNG should instead be the result of massive quests – or multiple small quests. But they need to be reliable.

The success of GW1 can be summed up with the idea that, if you left the game for 4 months, when you came back, you were still at max power (assuming you left that way.) You wouldn’t discover that you’re elite gear was now second best, or that your max level now needed to pop up another 20 to be competitive.

Adding reliable, quest/mission content worked for 7 years. To change that approach now is just flipping off their original fan-base.

stale.9785:

ZBoss.5610:

Storyline or quests. Don’t make me just hunt thousands of Glacer Golems and hope a lodestone will drop. Give me a quest that will be incredibly challenging and give me at least half of what I’m going to have to grind for. A little grinding is inevitable, but the amount needed for certain items that only drop from 1 or 2 enemies is silly. There are so many things that could be tied into dungeons, personal story, and even whatever is going on monthly!

This guy has it – to get a precursor, for example, should be something like a 700hr quest line, that you reliably get a reward from.

The fractal gear to me is also a prime example – you do the fractals, to achieve the AR you need to… do the fractals? And it’s a bleeding gear treadmill? (something we were told, for 6 years, wouldn’t exist.) If they peak at ascended, it’s no big deal – primarily because they already lost a huge chunk of players over it, those of us who are left either a)don’t care about the ascended stuff, b) are willing to get them slowly through dailies, c) are willing to grind, grind, grind the fractals.

Any content that right now is rewarded through RNG should instead be the result of massive quests – or multiple small quests. But they need to be reliable.

The success of GW1 can be summed up with the idea that, if you left the game for 4 months, when you came back, you were still at max power (assuming you left that way.) You wouldn’t discover that you’re elite gear was now second best, or that your max level now needed to pop up another 20 to be competitive.

Adding reliable, quest/mission content worked for 7 years. To change that approach now is just flipping off their original fan-base.

Adding reliable quest/mission content took time. Prophecies launched with a much smaller game than Guild Wars 1. There was the addition of Sorrow’s Furnace and hard mode. And that was it till Factions a year later.

This is a game which launched with far more content and more time is needed to create more content. If you don’t think Anet is working on content, you’re probably mistaken.

So we need to make a GOOD 700 hour quest. It takes a lot more than 700 hours to make a quest like that. In the mean time, people had nothing to do NOW.

This is the problem ALL new MMOs face. It’s why stuff is so hard to get at launch and why after a year or two, everything is easier to get. Because the content is caught up and people have other stuff to do.

This isn’t something that we don’t see in every MMO, not because Anet is lazy. But because content takes a whole lot longer to program than it does to run through.

yes. I like being lazy.!
i have only a few moments to play each day.. and i don’t feel like grinding!
I want my character to not look so plain and boring.. i want more choices
i don’t mind the grind,.. but doing something repetitive for over and over and over and over again, is kinda mind numbing,,.. (i would love more variety)
i used my few free time to play a game. to have fun. and i want to feel good about my character.. not chasing a carrot on a stick.!
but.. without much gold i doubt i could wear skins other than dungeon gear or crafted gear for exotics of a certain stats.. so.. even if the grind is optional,.. the thought of wearing cof gear for.. forever.. made me do repetitive grind anyways.. ==a

If you are doing content because its fun, thats not a grind.

If you are doing it purely to get the rewards, and in this case through endless repitition, thats grinding and poor design

Because this isn’t 1999, we aren’t all 16 anymore playing EQ all summer long. I don’t have time to kill thousands of enemies day in and day out. I have work and a family now.

Give me an epic weapon skin quest arc that takes a month or two to do, NOT a collect 100 of 20 different things year long grind! That’s fine if people want to grind like that, but give those of us with sporadic play times that can’t stand sitting in the same spot for hours a way of doing it!