Guild Wars 2

daver.8324:

Why I hate to grind? well I also play a bit of Diablo3 (yes yes im a bad person or whatever) but the grind in that is horrible. Spend so much time killing and killing waiting for that thrill from the flash of orange that I get bored of waiting.

T1-3 should have better drop rates IMO and T6 are kitten rare, Ive not got a craft up to T6 stuff so I assume it follows prior lvls patterns.

I feel like a lot of people dont know the mystic clover recipe usually spits out T6 mats in the boat load if you do the x10 recipe. I have only about 20 Mystic Clovers but have about half my T6 materials .

I’m a bit confused. People are saying that life contains grind and that you have to work in order to get the things you want. This is all true. But let me ask you this: If you are playing a game of football or rugby or whatever sport or game you like to play in real life, do you get bored? I’m going to hazard a guess and say no. And do you know why? It’s because it is active, varied and ultimately fun. If you played a game that was repetative, had no pace or action and was mundane you would not continue playing it for long.

The thing we, and the devs, must keep reminding ourselves is, Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be a game and a game is supposed to be fun. This means two things. It means that if you are not enjoying the game enough you should stop playing it. It also means that if players are leaving the game because it is no longer fun then the devs need to do something about it, unless of course they can keep the appeal going for a large enough crowd to sustain the game (which it seems they are currently able to do).

My advise would be this. If you are not enjoying the game, give constructive criticism. If, after an adequete amount of time has past, the game is still not enjoyable, stop playing it. I can understand the desire to cling on in hope for the game to get better, but if it just isn’t happening it is pointless living in false hope. For me, I have got my money’s worth and I still play the game on a more casual basis than I used to. I used to want to max stat gear and maybe a legendary or two. But it did not take long for me to realise that the methods required to get these things are just not enjoyable to me, so I have reduced how much I play and changed what I want out of the game completely.

I will say this though, having moved from a semi hardcore playstyle to a much more relaxed casual playstyle has made the game more enjoyable, as I no longer have the conditioned drive to work towards items that require mind numbing levels of tediousy to aqcuire.

So there’s two points I’m trying to make here. One is that a game should be fun, not work. And two, if the game is as frustrating and boring as real life, it’s time to change the game.

If you are aiming for something like a legendary, right now it’s all about gold.
It doesn’t really matter if you need X totems, Y lodestones or Z gossamer scraps. The most efficient way to get almost anything is through gold.

If you want armored scales, for example, you can go to Frostgorge and farm barracudas.
If people should have to do specifically this in order to get those scales, then we could expect the market price of scales to be in consonancy with gold farming time wise. However, a lot of armored scales are also delivered through RNG drop to players that are not actively aiming for them (from a krait in underwater fractal or WvW, for example). Many of these scales are supplied to the AH and this supply is actually high enough to cover the demand and keep the market price below the needed value to make active farming efficient.
With lower supply, market price could skyrocket to a point were scale farming could be more profitable than, lets say, CoF1, resulting on a migration from CoF to Frostgorge. However, the supply would be then a lot higher than the demand and market prices should decrease.
In the end, thanks to AH taxes, we should get a picture were scale farming is more profitable than farming gold to buy scales, but gold farming more porfitable than farming scales just for selling, which is ideal.

Right now RNG supply is so high that there’s no material which is really profitable to farm for. There are also a lot of them, like lodestones, for which there’s not even a reliable way of farming.

IMHO, designers should set the most profitable ways of gold farming, which right now is (speculation aside) probably just CoF1. Different ways should be boosted/nerfed in order to get a nice amount of top choices with pretty similar profits.
Then, RNG drop of materials should be progresively lowered up to a point where their active farming reach also that point of profit.

This way, a player working on lets say a legendary would have tons of viable choices.
The task would still be time-consuming (in fact, since market price of materials has been increased, it would be even more time consuming without some adjustment on the amounts of needed materials), but far more variated.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Atlas.9704:

[snip]…
Yes life is a grind, but games are escapism. We really shouldn’t have to grind horribly towards our fun.

Then don’t. Find a new definition of fun.

I used the Legendary as an example of grind, at the moment that’s the only ‘grind worthy’ thing I could find for the OP’s discussion. My game overall has been nothing but fun because I help newbies around and drift about in this wonderful gaming world.

There is absolutely nothing in this game that requires you to have a Legendary. You are not locked out from experiencing any area of the game for failing to have a Legendary. It gives you no measurable, statistical advantage over any other player; it’s the equivalent of an exotic item in stats. Even if the day comes that Legendaries are upgraded to match the stats of Ascended weapons, there will be cheaper ways to obtain Ascended weapons with equivalent stats.

ArenaNet is not making you grind for anything; Legendary, dailies, laurels, etc. You are choosing to grind for these items and achievements because you have decided to place an arbitrary value on them. When you made the choice to equate having fun in GW2 as obtaining a Legendary, then you accepted the associated cost (grinding). If you don’t want to bear that cost, then don’t engage in that activity. However, you’ll then have to accept that you aren’t going to earn a Legendary, either.

Read my post again and see how I said I want (not need) it and how I acknowledge how there’s always grind.
Please read through one more time as how I broke down the requirements for said Legendary that I want (not need, not required, I fully understand the price of this is my time. Don’t assume I do not.)

ArenaNet isn’t forcing you to do any of this; you’re choosing to do it to yourself. …[snip] If you’re a slave to your own desires, that’s not ArenaNet’s responsibility; that’s your’s.

At what point in my post where it indicated any slavery to this.
In fact, I said this:
“However I know that my example is for the Legendary, which is a item that is a testament to either lots of time focused on the game or lots of money to buy it.”

I play WvWvW almost exclusively. The price of admission (assuming a person is playing to the objectives of the WvWvW arena as designed) is siege weapons and upgrades to fortifications. I’ve chosen WvWvW as my definition of fun inside the game and those things are the associated cost; they weren’t hidden from me. I don’t complain that I’m being made to “grind” PvE to earn the coins needed for these purchases. I’ve made the choice to do this and I’m responsible for that choice. I earn the coins I need then get back to playing WvWvW.

I’m glad you can accept the price for your WvWvW grind. I really don’t care to be honest, but I’m glad all the same.
However you once again miss the point of my original post.
Lazmira asked

I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game.

To which I replied with my example, but no where in my example did it state that the Legendary shouldn’t be a long journey towards a pretty shiny weapon that, ultimately, has no impact on the game.
At no point did I lament that my gaming experience is horribly destroyed because I don’t have this.
My point was simply if I’m going to grind for a PvE item it should be a grind for PvE things.

You play WvWvW almost exclusively.
You accept the associated costs are coins for your weapons and upgrades.
You really don’t need them to play WvWvW, but wouldn’t it be a good move for ArenaNet to give you more options to grind for coins in a WvWvW enviroment instead of dealing with PvE?
You don’t complain, great.
You don’t care about complaining about grind, wonderful, then why are you in this thread?

Note this should not be seen as any attack on you, but what’s the point in your post about telling me to ‘Find a new definition of fun.’?
Go back and read, really read, what I said. It contributed to Lazmira’s question. If you grind for PvE things you should only have to grind in PvE, same goes for PvP and WvWvW.

I don’t mind grind, its part of the game, but if you are going to make us grind make it logical.

Your post was just the standard whitewashing that all people who have some issues on grinding are entitlement driven manchildren. I’ve seen that posting multiple times, hell I even have been guilty of throwing that type of post down in forums from time to time.

If you can come back, read my original post, and respond to a defense of why they make an PvE item grind out part of its requirements in WvWvW without copping out with “deal with it” or “suck it up” or “that’s just how it is” then I’ll read your reply. Otherwise I’m done.

Aeonblade.8709:

Because this isn’t 1999, we aren’t all 16 anymore playing EQ all summer long. I don’t have time to kill thousands of enemies day in and day out. I have work and a family now.

Give me an epic weapon skin quest arc that takes a month or two to do, NOT a collect 100 of 20 different things year long grind! That’s fine if people want to grind like that, but give those of us with sporadic play times that can’t stand sitting in the same spot for hours a way of doing it!

There are plenty of nice skins though that aren’t legendaries. The game needs to provide for people like you, but also people like me, who have a LOT of spare time in which to play.

There are some very nice skins out and I’m sure more will come in time. They’re not legendaries, but they’re still quite cool. You just have to look for them.

700hr / 8 hour work day / 5 day work week / 4 weeks per month = 4.4 months of work if 1 hour of work == 1 hour of gameplay (which is a stupid and ridiculous expectation).

It’s actually more like 8 hours of work == 1 hour of gameplay (in the optimal case, honestly). That would take 35 months, or almost 3 years of work to create a single legendary quest line. In realistic terms, it might take closer to 5 years.

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Because this isn’t 1999, we aren’t all 16 anymore playing EQ all summer long. I don’t have time to kill thousands of enemies day in and day out. I have work and a family now.

Give me an epic weapon skin quest arc that takes a month or two to do, NOT a collect 100 of 20 different things year long grind! That’s fine if people want to grind like that, but give those of us with sporadic play times that can’t stand sitting in the same spot for hours a way of doing it!

There are plenty of nice skins though that aren’t legendaries. The game needs to provide for people like you, but also people like me, who have a LOT of spare time in which to play.

There are some very nice skins out and I’m sure more will come in time. They’re not legendaries, but they’re still quite cool. You just have to look for them.

Oh I agree with you, there are tons of cool skins out there! Honestly they need a few more of some weapons, but for the most part there is a nice selection out there. A lot of the non legendaries actually look nicer than the legendaries themselves.

Aeonblade.8709:

Vayne.8563:

Aeonblade.8709:

Because this isn’t 1999, we aren’t all 16 anymore playing EQ all summer long. I don’t have time to kill thousands of enemies day in and day out. I have work and a family now.

Give me an epic weapon skin quest arc that takes a month or two to do, NOT a collect 100 of 20 different things year long grind! That’s fine if people want to grind like that, but give those of us with sporadic play times that can’t stand sitting in the same spot for hours a way of doing it!

There are plenty of nice skins though that aren’t legendaries. The game needs to provide for people like you, but also people like me, who have a LOT of spare time in which to play.

There are some very nice skins out and I’m sure more will come in time. They’re not legendaries, but they’re still quite cool. You just have to look for them.

Oh I agree with you, there are tons of cool skins out there! Honestly they need a few more of some weapons, but for the most part there is a nice selection out there. A lot of the non legendaries actually look nicer than the legendaries themselves.

Actually yes, I was kind of surprised at how…overdone many of the legendaries are. There are few I’d consider personally anyway. I just want to get that stupid blank spot off my loading screen. lol

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

I actually don’t mind the grind, what bugs me is the hand holding ANet does via Diminishing Returns.

“ANet: Oh look, you have been playing for 45 minutes killing x mob for something you need, you should play elsewhere for something you don’t need! Come back later for another shot of ridiculous RNG.”

If I can play 6 hours once a week, why can I only work on my goal for 3 hours? Should I play those other 3 hours, or just find something else to do? GW2 has the worst way of limiting people.

Prime example is WoW, farming raids heroics, you know you can only do them once a day, or once a week period. In GW2 you have no warning other than “I’ve been looting crap for the last 10 minutes, did I hit DR’s, or just a dry spell?”

Don’t give me crap about farming, if ANet was against farming Legendary’s would have been legendary from the start not a farm-fest of mats. Whether you’re have fun, or not the process’ of anything in the game at its very core is farming.

Nappychappy.7046:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

I actually don’t mind the grind, what bugs me is the hand holding ANet does via Diminishing Returns.

“ANet: Oh look, you have been playing for 45 minutes killing x mob for something you need, you should play elsewhere for something you don’t need! Come back later for another shot of ridiculous RNG.”

If I can play 6 hours once a week, why can I only work on my goal for 3 hours? Should I play those other 3 hours, or just find something else to do? GW2 has the worst way of limiting people.

Prime example is WoW, farming raids heroics, you know you can only do them once a day, or once a week period. In GW2 you have no warning other than “I’ve been looting crap for the last 10 minutes, did I hit DR’s, or just a dry spell?”

Don’t give me crap about farming, if ANet was against farming Legendary’s would have been legendary from the start not a farm-fest of mats. Whether you’re have fun, or not the process’ of anything in the game at its very core is farming.

Just move around and don’t keep killing the same stuff, and the DR doesn’t kick in. I do it all the time. Why do you insist on killing the same stuff over and over or staying in one small area?

There is a small group of people that complain about open world DR, but I’m not convinced that most even know what it is, or ever experience it.

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

I actually don’t mind the grind, what bugs me is the hand holding ANet does via Diminishing Returns.

“ANet: Oh look, you have been playing for 45 minutes killing x mob for something you need, you should play elsewhere for something you don’t need! Come back later for another shot of ridiculous RNG.”

If I can play 6 hours once a week, why can I only work on my goal for 3 hours? Should I play those other 3 hours, or just find something else to do? GW2 has the worst way of limiting people.

Prime example is WoW, farming raids heroics, you know you can only do them once a day, or once a week period. In GW2 you have no warning other than “I’ve been looting crap for the last 10 minutes, did I hit DR’s, or just a dry spell?”

Don’t give me crap about farming, if ANet was against farming Legendary’s would have been legendary from the start not a farm-fest of mats. Whether you’re have fun, or not the process’ of anything in the game at its very core is farming.

Just move around and don’t keep killing the same stuff, and the DR doesn’t kick in. I do it all the time. Why do you insist on killing the same stuff over and over or staying in one small area?

There is a small group of people that complain about open world DR, but I’m not convinced that most even know what it is, or ever experience it.

Why do you insist on moving around? You’re doing the same thing, just in different areas.

True tunnel vision YOU have, if ANet continues to back-peddle you will eventually come to your senses.

Maybe not, I mean it’s B2P, and I know how much B2P gets praised just for the fact that some people think 15 a month is a rip-off… OMG 50 cents a day I has a family!!!

I find it disturbingly funny when people come with the legendary speech that it is meant to be “hard” hahaha. Making a legendary is not hard, having to do something extremely grindy is not hard, it is simply grindy, if they come up with a DECENT challenge to earn precursors for example, this could become hard not grindy.

Difficulty has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with grinding, you can faceroll tons of monsters to get their items (t6 matts for example), nothing in a legendary offers challenge, only faceroll grind.

And then, people say you need “experience in all fields of game”, what about someone getting 3 legendaries within the first 2 months of gameplay (or even less)? A bit too fast for a long-term goal, isn’t it?

Grind? Really? This game has no grind. None.

Do DEs and Hearts to 80 (or Gather/Craft if you feel like it). That’s not grind. If you hate DEs then you bought the wrong MMO.

By 80 you’ll probably have enough gold to buy a full exotic set of armor/jewelry/weapons. Go buy the stats you want.

The End.

Where’s the grind? You’re 80 now. You have almost max stats. You can do whatever you want. If you want to WvW go do it. If you want to run dungeons you can do that. If you want to redo some of the DEs, or explore stuff you haven’t seen before, you can. If you dig Fractals then do Fractals.

Oh, but what about my Legendary?

What about it? Look at the requirements. Legendaries are for people that have extensive experience in all facets of the game world. That’s why there’s WvW and dungeon tokens in it. That’s why there’s a crafting requirement. You’re not supposed to farm for it. You’re supposed to play the game for a really long time (because you like it!) and do a variety of things (because you think they’re fun!), and then you’ll have most of the stuff for your Legendary. Why would anyone grind out their Legendary? That’s insane. You don’t have to. You don’t need it to do anything. Nobody’s going to lock you out of an encounter because you don’t have it. It’s just an arguably pretty weapon skin.

Nappychappy.7046:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

I actually don’t mind the grind, what bugs me is the hand holding ANet does via Diminishing Returns.

“ANet: Oh look, you have been playing for 45 minutes killing x mob for something you need, you should play elsewhere for something you don’t need! Come back later for another shot of ridiculous RNG.”

If I can play 6 hours once a week, why can I only work on my goal for 3 hours? Should I play those other 3 hours, or just find something else to do? GW2 has the worst way of limiting people.

Prime example is WoW, farming raids heroics, you know you can only do them once a day, or once a week period. In GW2 you have no warning other than “I’ve been looting crap for the last 10 minutes, did I hit DR’s, or just a dry spell?”

Don’t give me crap about farming, if ANet was against farming Legendary’s would have been legendary from the start not a farm-fest of mats. Whether you’re have fun, or not the process’ of anything in the game at its very core is farming.

Just move around and don’t keep killing the same stuff, and the DR doesn’t kick in. I do it all the time. Why do you insist on killing the same stuff over and over or staying in one small area?

There is a small group of people that complain about open world DR, but I’m not convinced that most even know what it is, or ever experience it.

Why do you insist on moving around? You’re doing the same thing, just in different areas.

True tunnel vision YOU have, if ANet continues to back-peddle you will eventually come to your senses.

Maybe not, I mean it’s B2P, and I know how much B2P gets praised just for the fact that some people think 15 a month is a rip-off… OMG 50 cents a day I has a family!!!

Why shouldn’t I move around? That’s not tunnel vision. I think you’ll find for most people, staying in one spot is boring. It might not be for you.

But bots tend to kill the same mobs over and over too. So it’s a logical thing for Anet to do.

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

I actually don’t mind the grind, what bugs me is the hand holding ANet does via Diminishing Returns.

“ANet: Oh look, you have been playing for 45 minutes killing x mob for something you need, you should play elsewhere for something you don’t need! Come back later for another shot of ridiculous RNG.”

If I can play 6 hours once a week, why can I only work on my goal for 3 hours? Should I play those other 3 hours, or just find something else to do? GW2 has the worst way of limiting people.

Prime example is WoW, farming raids heroics, you know you can only do them once a day, or once a week period. In GW2 you have no warning other than “I’ve been looting crap for the last 10 minutes, did I hit DR’s, or just a dry spell?”

Don’t give me crap about farming, if ANet was against farming Legendary’s would have been legendary from the start not a farm-fest of mats. Whether you’re have fun, or not the process’ of anything in the game at its very core is farming.

Just move around and don’t keep killing the same stuff, and the DR doesn’t kick in. I do it all the time. Why do you insist on killing the same stuff over and over or staying in one small area?

There is a small group of people that complain about open world DR, but I’m not convinced that most even know what it is, or ever experience it.

Why do you insist on moving around? You’re doing the same thing, just in different areas.

True tunnel vision YOU have, if ANet continues to back-peddle you will eventually come to your senses.

Maybe not, I mean it’s B2P, and I know how much B2P gets praised just for the fact that some people think 15 a month is a rip-off… OMG 50 cents a day I has a family!!!

Why shouldn’t I move around? That’s not tunnel vision. I think you’ll find for most people, staying in one spot is boring. It might not be for you.

But bots tend to kill the same mobs over and over too. So it’s a logical thing for Anet to do.

Because you think it is boring, I don’t play like you, many people don’t play like you, and many people have goals. My goal shouldn’t be hampered by a kitten war against bots. Why are there bots any ways? Wasn’t that the whole point of gem =/= cash + play came in? Legally selling gold, taking the power out of the 3rd party’s hands? DR’s have removed bots from parts of the game, also have made it hell for players, that is NOT fixed, that is lazy. Players are now better off to cheat with a second account than actually play the game for things they want so that they can move on and do something different.

Not all players want to run in circles all day and claim how awesome it is to just rerun old content over and over and over and over!

Do what you want, take a break, new content? Do more content.. Some people have all day to play the game and all night to post about it, well, I don’t and gaming is a luxury and until ANet realizes that time spent is the true commodity, they will continue to disappoint people.

Game is B2P, it will sell, but it will never be any thing great.

Nappychappy.7046:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

I actually don’t mind the grind, what bugs me is the hand holding ANet does via Diminishing Returns.

“ANet: Oh look, you have been playing for 45 minutes killing x mob for something you need, you should play elsewhere for something you don’t need! Come back later for another shot of ridiculous RNG.”

If I can play 6 hours once a week, why can I only work on my goal for 3 hours? Should I play those other 3 hours, or just find something else to do? GW2 has the worst way of limiting people.

Prime example is WoW, farming raids heroics, you know you can only do them once a day, or once a week period. In GW2 you have no warning other than “I’ve been looting crap for the last 10 minutes, did I hit DR’s, or just a dry spell?”

Don’t give me crap about farming, if ANet was against farming Legendary’s would have been legendary from the start not a farm-fest of mats. Whether you’re have fun, or not the process’ of anything in the game at its very core is farming.

Just move around and don’t keep killing the same stuff, and the DR doesn’t kick in. I do it all the time. Why do you insist on killing the same stuff over and over or staying in one small area?

There is a small group of people that complain about open world DR, but I’m not convinced that most even know what it is, or ever experience it.

Why do you insist on moving around? You’re doing the same thing, just in different areas.

True tunnel vision YOU have, if ANet continues to back-peddle you will eventually come to your senses.

Maybe not, I mean it’s B2P, and I know how much B2P gets praised just for the fact that some people think 15 a month is a rip-off… OMG 50 cents a day I has a family!!!

Why shouldn’t I move around? That’s not tunnel vision. I think you’ll find for most people, staying in one spot is boring. It might not be for you.

But bots tend to kill the same mobs over and over too. So it’s a logical thing for Anet to do.

Because you think it is boring, I don’t play like you, many people don’t play like you, and many people have goals. My goal shouldn’t be hampered by a kitten war against bots. Why are there bots any ways? Wasn’t that the whole point of gem =/= cash + play came in? Legally selling gold, taking the power out of the 3rd party’s hands? DR’s have removed bots from parts of the game, also have made it hell for players, that is NOT fixed, that is lazy. Players are now better off to cheat with a second account than actually play the game for things they want so that they can move on and do something different.

Not all players want to run in circles all day and claim how awesome it is to just rerun old content over and over and over and over!

Do what you want, take a break, new content? Do more content.. Some people have all day to play the game and all night to post about it, well, I don’t and gaming is a luxury and until ANet realizes that time spent is the true commodity, they will continue to disappoint people.

Game is B2P, it will sell, but it will never be any thing great.

It’s already something great to a lot of people. Talk about tunnel vision.

It doesn’t fit the way you play, so it will never be great.

Maybe it’s just not the game for you…which is okay. But that doesn’t make it a bad game. In fact, it can be a great game and not for everyone.

stale.9785:

ZBoss.5610:

Storyline or quests. Don’t make me just hunt thousands of Glacer Golems and hope a lodestone will drop. Give me a quest that will be incredibly challenging and give me at least half of what I’m going to have to grind for. A little grinding is inevitable, but the amount needed for certain items that only drop from 1 or 2 enemies is silly. There are so many things that could be tied into dungeons, personal story, and even whatever is going on monthly!

This guy has it – to get a precursor, for example, should be something like a 700hr quest line, that you reliably get a reward from.

The fractal gear to me is also a prime example – you do the fractals, to achieve the AR you need to… do the fractals? And it’s a bleeding gear treadmill? (something we were told, for 6 years, wouldn’t exist.) If they peak at ascended, it’s no big deal – primarily because they already lost a huge chunk of players over it, those of us who are left either a)don’t care about the ascended stuff, b) are willing to get them slowly through dailies, c) are willing to grind, grind, grind the fractals.

Any content that right now is rewarded through RNG should instead be the result of massive quests – or multiple small quests. But they need to be reliable.

The success of GW1 can be summed up with the idea that, if you left the game for 4 months, when you came back, you were still at max power (assuming you left that way.) You wouldn’t discover that you’re elite gear was now second best, or that your max level now needed to pop up another 20 to be competitive.

Adding reliable, quest/mission content worked for 7 years. To change that approach now is just flipping off their original fan-base.

1.give me an example of a game that has a 700 hour long story. You want to go on a 700 hour long quest – how many years would it take to develop such a thing?
2. 30 runs of fractals = 2 rings. It’s not really a grind when you think about it.

Those Who Remain.1987:

‘Grinding’ is a way for developers to create hours upon hours of playtime based on little content. It can be very lazy design.

I don’t mind grinding in itself, as long as it is optional for most of it. That’s why I like GW2’s approach. The game allows you to choose how you want to progress, whereas a lot of other games force you into the ‘grind’.

For me, an MMO is about immersion and gameplay. Not being forced to grind to be able to continue to grind for the next equipment, after which I have to grind etc.

That’s actually not been my experience thus far. GW2 has been the single most grindy game I’ve ever seen and here’s how.

Legendary – 250 of everything with a deflated drop rate on all T6 materials means months in the works.

Ascended gear – whether it be by dungeon or laurels this takes months as well to farm enough currency to deck yourself out.

Exotic gear – crafting, laurels, and dungeons take different amounts of time however it’s still a grind because it’s basically placeholding you to keep you from noticing the huge gap of content missing. (new metas new open world DE’s are needed big time and monthly solid for the next 6 months to catch up).

— the gold part of the exotic gear for a long time was the worst problem. Sure anyone could go to the TP to buy something IF they spent months in dungeons and WvW getting the sole snippit of loot that was available for 5 months in this game which severely harmed the economy (players) not the bots. DR is ugly in any game. And on top of DR we witnessed them messing with the drop rates of everything in Nov 2012 before the real problems with killcredit began. Love logging back into the game to see that not only have the prices for items in the game (armor and the like) haven’t changed, many of them have become outrageously priced (8-9 gold is not normal folks hate to tell you).

It’s a second job, when your playerbase can only get pennies from their daily activities and sales and the costs for everything are $100 bills. Take a look at how things are priced and you’ll see my point. 100 silver per gold is the equivalent to $1 per silver which means items that are 1 gold are $100. So that item that was 9 gold is $900 in essence, and people think this is perfectly fine. (the ones telling you this in these forums are the headstart people who went thru and farmed everything the first month before the loot changes and have their money and the corner on the market because the purchased items that would be scarce before the changes)

It’s really bad business in the virtual world to manipulate a player based economy this way.

Anyway those are all the ways that this is a grind, and in some cases they are months long. Still haven’t seen that laurel bonus from completing already finished events in my achievements pain. Also another strong point in my argument’s favor.

If the devs truly were gamers who understood gamers and made this game for gamers, and if they truly understood the types of things that harmed gamers in the history of mmo’s we wouldn’t have DR, we wouldn’t have a manipulated drop rate system, and we would have more then one currency so people who are desparate to catch up to their friends aren’t tempted to get gems for gold.

tigirius.9014:

That’s actually not been my experience thus far. GW2 has been the single most grindy game I’ve ever seen and here’s how.

Legendary – 250 of everything with a deflated drop rate on all T6 materials means months in the works.

Ascended gear – whether it be by dungeon or laurels this takes months as well to farm enough currency to deck yourself out.

Exotic gear – crafting, laurels, and dungeons take different amounts of time however it’s still a grind because it’s basically placeholding you to keep you from noticing the huge gap of content missing. (new metas new open world DE’s are needed big time and monthly solid for the next 6 months to catch up).

— the gold part of the exotic gear for a long time was the worst problem. Sure anyone could go to the TP to buy something IF they spent months in dungeons and WvW getting the sole snippit of loot that was available for 5 months in this game which severely harmed the economy (players) not the bots. DR is ugly in any game. And on top of DR we witnessed them messing with the drop rates of everything in Nov 2012 before the real problems with killcredit began. Love logging back into the game to see that not only have the prices for items in the game (armor and the like) haven’t changed, many of them have become outrageously priced (8-9 gold is not normal folks hate to tell you).

It’s a second job, when your playerbase can only get pennies from their daily activities and sales and the costs for everything are $100 bills. Take a look at how things are priced and you’ll see my point. 100 silver per gold is the equivalent to $1 per silver which means items that are 1 gold are $100. So that item that was 9 gold is $900 in essence, and people think this is perfectly fine. (the ones telling you this in these forums are the headstart people who went thru and farmed everything the first month before the loot changes and have their money and the corner on the market because the purchased items that would be scarce before the changes)

It’s really bad business in the virtual world to manipulate a player based economy this way.

Anyway those are all the ways that this is a grind, and in some cases they are months long. Still haven’t seen that laurel bonus from completing already finished events in my achievements pain. Also another strong point in my argument’s favor.

If the devs truly were gamers who understood gamers and made this game for gamers, and if they truly understood the types of things that harmed gamers in the history of mmo’s we wouldn’t have DR, we wouldn’t have a manipulated drop rate system, and we would have more then one currency so people who are desparate to catch up to their friends aren’t tempted to get gems for gold.

1. I normally have enough gold to buy exotics when I level up an alt. After I leveled my first character it took me 2 days to gear her up. Not to mention if you have no money, go to Orr, buy it with karma. How is it grindy? O_o
2. Legendary is not supposed to be owned by most, that’s why it’s just a skin with no added stats.
3. Ascended amulets and rings are free as long as you have enough laurels. It’s as easy as doing a daily once a day.
4. This game discourages farming. That’s why DR is there.
5. Drops are not manipulated.
6. Laurels, Karma, Gold, various dungeon tickets, guild commendations – we only have ONE currency? That’s new to me.
Go out and play an older MMO where you have to kill extra mobs just to level up, because quests are not enough, where only one gear piece drops in dungeons and all people roll on it, where you have to get tier 1 to get tier 2… This game is not grindy by one bit.

Mirta.5029:

tigirius.9014:

That’s actually not been my experience thus far. GW2 has been the single most grindy game I’ve ever seen and here’s how.

Legendary – 250 of everything with a deflated drop rate on all T6 materials means months in the works.

Ascended gear – whether it be by dungeon or laurels this takes months as well to farm enough currency to deck yourself out.

Exotic gear – crafting, laurels, and dungeons take different amounts of time however it’s still a grind because it’s basically placeholding you to keep you from noticing the huge gap of content missing. (new metas new open world DE’s are needed big time and monthly solid for the next 6 months to catch up).

— the gold part of the exotic gear for a long time was the worst problem. Sure anyone could go to the TP to buy something IF they spent months in dungeons and WvW getting the sole snippit of loot that was available for 5 months in this game which severely harmed the economy (players) not the bots. DR is ugly in any game. And on top of DR we witnessed them messing with the drop rates of everything in Nov 2012 before the real problems with killcredit began. Love logging back into the game to see that not only have the prices for items in the game (armor and the like) haven’t changed, many of them have become outrageously priced (8-9 gold is not normal folks hate to tell you).

It’s a second job, when your playerbase can only get pennies from their daily activities and sales and the costs for everything are $100 bills. Take a look at how things are priced and you’ll see my point. 100 silver per gold is the equivalent to $1 per silver which means items that are 1 gold are $100. So that item that was 9 gold is $900 in essence, and people think this is perfectly fine. (the ones telling you this in these forums are the headstart people who went thru and farmed everything the first month before the loot changes and have their money and the corner on the market because the purchased items that would be scarce before the changes)

It’s really bad business in the virtual world to manipulate a player based economy this way.

Anyway those are all the ways that this is a grind, and in some cases they are months long. Still haven’t seen that laurel bonus from completing already finished events in my achievements pain. Also another strong point in my argument’s favor.

If the devs truly were gamers who understood gamers and made this game for gamers, and if they truly understood the types of things that harmed gamers in the history of mmo’s we wouldn’t have DR, we wouldn’t have a manipulated drop rate system, and we would have more then one currency so people who are desparate to catch up to their friends aren’t tempted to get gems for gold.

1. I normally have enough gold to buy exotics when I level up an alt. After I leveled my first character it took me 2 days to gear her up. Not to mention if you have no money, go to Orr, buy it with karma. How is it grindy? O_o
2. Legendary is not supposed to be owned by most, that’s why it’s just a skin with no added stats.
3. Ascended amulets and rings are free as long as you have enough laurels. It’s as easy as doing a daily once a day.
4. This game discourages farming. That’s why DR is there.
5. Drops are not manipulated.
6. Laurels, Karma, Gold, various dungeon tickets, guild commendations – we only have ONE currency? That’s new to me.
Go out and play an older MMO where you have to kill extra mobs just to level up, because quests are not enough, where only one gear piece drops in dungeons and all people roll on it, where you have to get tier 1 to get tier 2… This game is not grindy by one bit.

That’s just plainly not true, some games make fighting mobs at a camp fun, this game fails to do that, and not only fails to do that, but places restrictions on it so even though it isn’t fun like in other older games, you also get less drops the longer you do it.

I have come from EQ all the way through Rift most recently, hitting nearly every MMO in between, and the legendary weapon grind in this game is an abomination. Even the Epic weapon quests in EQ that took months to complete when they came out were fun, because it was a quest you could figure out and work towards. There is nothing to figure out about farming 250 T6 mats that hardly drop and RNG mystic clovers.

Whether you agree or not, to me it’s always going to look like a band aid fix for a lack of level 80 content, and I can’t recommend this game to someone who is serious about outfitting their character in the nicest gear or legendary weapons because it’s unobtainable without plain old good luck or RL cash.

It depends on what you mean by “grind”. The OP seems to say that it is simply when it takes a long time to complete whatever it is you want to do.

That’s not grind IMO. Grind is having to do just one or two things (ie. kill mob a or collect item B for npc C) 10 thousand times.

Let’s say that doing that one or two things 10k times takes you 5 days @ 2 hours a day. So 10 playing hours. That is being able to do that one or two things 1k times in one hour. It also means it only take you 3.6 seconds to do that one or two things just once.

I’d much rather reach that goal by doing those one or two things just once, but it takes 10 hours to do it that one time.

That to me is the difference between grinding towards the goal and playing to the goal.

The personal story can be great for bringing a character straight through to lvl 80. It would have to be lengthened, but it could work. It’ll keep you immersed like a good book. Getting to max level wouldn’t feel like some chore, second job, and/or grind.

Or you can explore the world completing hearts and events as you go. This too would have to be reworked. I’ve tried to level through exploration and doing the open world quests and events. It doesn’t work too well. I end up getting all the quests done in one area, move onto the next and quickly find myself 3 or 4 level below that of the mobs I’m now having to face. This is most noticeable with the starter areas which, despite being just one zone, is devided up into two sections. The first where almost everything is yellow and then the second where you really start to see hostile mobs.

You just need to jump through the gates and rotate between the starter areas for each race.

Aeonblade.8709:

That’s just plainly not true, some games make fighting mobs at a camp fun, this game fails to do that, and not only fails to do that, but places restrictions on it so even though it isn’t fun like in other older games, you also get less drops the longer you do it.

whether or not killing mobs is fun doesn’t matter, having to kill mobs to level up, because there’s no other way is called a grind. And if you like farming, why did you come to play a game that’s against farming?

Aeonblade.8709:

I have come from EQ all the way through Rift most recently, hitting nearly every MMO in between, and the legendary weapon grind in this game is an abomination. Even the Epic weapon quests in EQ that took months to complete when they came out were fun, because it was a quest you could figure out and work towards. There is nothing to figure out about farming 250 T6 mats that hardly drop and RNG mystic clovers.

go to world of warcraft. Tell me how many people in there have a legendary nad how long it took them to get it.

Aeonblade.8709:

Whether you agree or not, to me it’s always going to look like a band aid fix for a lack of level 80 content, and I can’t recommend this game to someone who is serious about outfitting their character in the nicest gear or legendary weapons because it’s unobtainable without plain old good luck or RL cash.

or you could, I don’t know, be smart about the economy and buy it with gold. Do you even know how much real money you would have to pay to exchange it into enough gold to buy a legendary?

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Vayne.8563:

Nappychappy.7046:

Lazmira.5408:

This is no attack or any sort, I’m just curious here.

I see a lot of people complaining about content being a grind in this game. I would really like to know what they would do to make it less grindy, or how they would change the game. Because to me that’s usually what mmos are about; advancing in a slow progress to an achieved goal. I mean what i’m getting out of certain players is that they want things done super quickly, but wouldn’t that make the game really boring?

I’m just super confused with some of you guys. If anyone could explain I would greatly appreciate it.

EDIT: Would also love if some of you guys could give me some other MMOs that aren’t grindy for examples!

I actually don’t mind the grind, what bugs me is the hand holding ANet does via Diminishing Returns.

“ANet: Oh look, you have been playing for 45 minutes killing x mob for something you need, you should play elsewhere for something you don’t need! Come back later for another shot of ridiculous RNG.”

If I can play 6 hours once a week, why can I only work on my goal for 3 hours? Should I play those other 3 hours, or just find something else to do? GW2 has the worst way of limiting people.

Prime example is WoW, farming raids heroics, you know you can only do them once a day, or once a week period. In GW2 you have no warning other than “I’ve been looting crap for the last 10 minutes, did I hit DR’s, or just a dry spell?”

Don’t give me crap about farming, if ANet was against farming Legendary’s would have been legendary from the start not a farm-fest of mats. Whether you’re have fun, or not the process’ of anything in the game at its very core is farming.

Just move around and don’t keep killing the same stuff, and the DR doesn’t kick in. I do it all the time. Why do you insist on killing the same stuff over and over or staying in one small area?

There is a small group of people that complain about open world DR, but I’m not convinced that most even know what it is, or ever experience it.

Why do you insist on moving around? You’re doing the same thing, just in different areas.

True tunnel vision YOU have, if ANet continues to back-peddle you will eventually come to your senses.

Maybe not, I mean it’s B2P, and I know how much B2P gets praised just for the fact that some people think 15 a month is a rip-off… OMG 50 cents a day I has a family!!!

Why shouldn’t I move around? That’s not tunnel vision. I think you’ll find for most people, staying in one spot is boring. It might not be for you.

But bots tend to kill the same mobs over and over too. So it’s a logical thing for Anet to do.

Because you think it is boring, I don’t play like you, many people don’t play like you, and many people have goals. My goal shouldn’t be hampered by a kitten war against bots. Why are there bots any ways? Wasn’t that the whole point of gem =/= cash + play came in? Legally selling gold, taking the power out of the 3rd party’s hands? DR’s have removed bots from parts of the game, also have made it hell for players, that is NOT fixed, that is lazy. Players are now better off to cheat with a second account than actually play the game for things they want so that they can move on and do something different.

Not all players want to run in circles all day and claim how awesome it is to just rerun old content over and over and over and over!

Do what you want, take a break, new content? Do more content.. Some people have all day to play the game and all night to post about it, well, I don’t and gaming is a luxury and until ANet realizes that time spent is the true commodity, they will continue to disappoint people.

Game is B2P, it will sell, but it will never be any thing great.

It’s already something great to a lot of people. Talk about tunnel vision.

It doesn’t fit the way you play, so it will never be great.

Maybe it’s just not the game for you…which is okay. But that doesn’t make it a bad game. In fact, it can be a great game and not for everyone.

Again:

" It’s extremely important that we stay true to our philosophy that you should be able to play Guild Wars 2 the way you want to play the game in order to reach the most powerful rewards. "

“If you love MMOs, you’ll want to check out Guild Wars 2, and if you hate MMOs, you’ll really want to check out Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars 2 takes everything you love about Guild Wars 1 and puts it into a persistent world that’s got more active combat, a fully-branching, personalized storyline, a new event system to get people playing together, and still no monthly fees.”

Who has the tunnel vision?

I’ll make it very simple for everyone:

People hate grinding for non-cosmetic rewards because it adds nothing to the game, reduces play-style variability, give older players an unfair advantage and forces players to work before they can have fun. ANet is well aware of this and therefore has designed sPvP to require no grind. Some people, such as GW1 players, would like to see this play style extended to PvE and WvW as well.

Short answer to your question: just because a game did it before doesn’t mean its the only way. Grinding is poor design and the fast way to keep players in your game buying from your game store.