Guild Wars 2

Wetpaw.3487:

I would not consider myself a “player” much anymore, as this was my 1st b2p model I was all about supporting anet, but after all these months it’s very clear where development is going. The glaring issues of this extremely beautiful but shallow game no longer can be ignored. Do I blame the devs, no, simple pawns working for a paycheck under people milking this game instead of building it.

Login & play an hour or so of WvW, don’t be surprised of this growing realization, this is a good mmo for novice/beginner mmo players interests…but will never hold with players w/more experience in mmo’s/endgame.

1. My experience was opposite to yours – WoW, Perfect World and Runescape – all of them couldn’t hold my attention. I feel like I’m having much more fun when I don’t feel forced to grind, to run raids or to pay a subscription fee. I can choose what I do and I’m happy with it. And I’m nowhere near a beginner MMO player.
2. If you lost all your interest in GW2 why are you on its forums?

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

I personally don’t see the value in intangible virtual content. It doesn’t have any practical value, your investment on your purchase depreciates IMMEDIATELY, so your funds can never be recovered (unless you ebay your account).

One could also argue that buying an MMO is worthless, because it would only last as long as the servers do.

Sure, you could definitely argue that. What your paying for is for server space for your account, which serves a function. In game aesthetic items lack that or any useful function.

Scrambles.2604:

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

I personally don’t see the value in intangible virtual content. It doesn’t have any practical value, your investment on your purchase depreciates IMMEDIATELY, so your funds can never be recovered (unless you ebay your account).

One could also argue that buying an MMO is worthless, because it would only last as long as the servers do.

Sure, you could definitely argue that. What your paying for is for server space for your account, which serves a function. In game aesthetic items lack that or any useful function.

how about it makes your character look pretty and you feel better as a result of it? It’s the same logic as buying designer hoodies, make-up, paying for a fancy haircut, etc.

Hickeroar.9734:

Scrambles.2604:

Hickeroar.9734:

Scrambles.2604:

Hickeroar.9734:

I think ANet did a good job of balancing gold’s actual value in the game. You can shell out a ton of money and buy a completed legendary, sure. But what does that gain you? You get no in-game advantage by doing this…

If you want to CRAFT a legendary, you can buy your way about halfway there, and then you’re required to do a LOT of in-game stuff to complete it. You can’t buy your way to a crafted legendary.

Also, those people shelling out lots of money are keeping the game running, while people who aren’t shelling out any money are basically getting a free ride. Sounds a whole lot like America to me…

free ride? I paid $60 for this game. That’s hardly free.

The people shelling out money are getting the content they are paying for. I paid my share and i get the content i paid for, which doesn’t include backpacks, molten picks, etc.

Yes, and I paid overall a couple hundred on WoW and expansion packs…and then had to pay a subscription fee. So what? The fee keeps the game going. The gem store keeps the game going.

Buying the game is nothing more than paying for the 5 years of development that it took to make the game in the first place.

Sure the gem store does provide regular income for Anet, but this was all determined by budget projections based on 1). cost of running business. 2). predictive analysis of how much the cash shop would be used by the population, as well as projected revenue and profit from game sales.

if your business model is dependent on 100% of your user base using the cash shop, then that is a poor business model. If your analysis shows people are less likely to use the cash shop, then it will require a sub (see WoW subscription model, which existed before there was a plethora of data showing people are very likely to spend money on virtual goods).

How is it a poor business model if people are spending, and the game is still running?

I understand that it’s RISKY at the offset, to be sure, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I think it’s turned out to be a GREAT business model for them. It was a great business model in GW1, and it was so great that B2P and F2P imitators started popping up all over the place.

Arenanet is probably single-handedly responsible for the F2P craze that MMO games have turned into.

i dont think you understand what i wrote. take a few minutes and reread my post.

If, in order to operate you business, you need 100% of people who bought the game to also use the cash shop, it would be almost impossible to stay afloat. Operating budget is determined with projections that include people like myself who do not use the cash shop.

People that use the cash shop keep the game running, but people that dont use the cash shop wont run them out of business, because a certain % of your player base not using the cash shop is anticipated in your projections/business model.

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

I personally don’t see the value in intangible virtual content. It doesn’t have any practical value, your investment on your purchase depreciates IMMEDIATELY, so your funds can never be recovered (unless you ebay your account).

One could also argue that buying an MMO is worthless, because it would only last as long as the servers do.

Sure, you could definitely argue that. What your paying for is for server space for your account, which serves a function. In game aesthetic items lack that or any useful function.

how about it makes your character look pretty and you feel better as a result of it? It’s the same logic as buying designer hoodies, make-up, paying for a fancy haircut, etc.

i don’t know how many times i can say this, but it all depends on each individuals perspective and their valuation of their money.

I don’t need to spend money to feel better about myself, but some people do. Does it bother me that some people need to spend money to feel good about themselves? A little, ( i blame the cultural ideologies that perpetuate our unnecessary consumerism), but it’s your life so do what you want.

Scrambles.2604:

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

I personally don’t see the value in intangible virtual content. It doesn’t have any practical value, your investment on your purchase depreciates IMMEDIATELY, so your funds can never be recovered (unless you ebay your account).

One could also argue that buying an MMO is worthless, because it would only last as long as the servers do.

Sure, you could definitely argue that. What your paying for is for server space for your account, which serves a function. In game aesthetic items lack that or any useful function.

That’s like saying going to the movies is worthless because after two hours, you’re going home. Playing tennis is worthless, because once you’’re done paying for the court, it’s over.

Anything that provides entertainment is worth something. How much is up to each individual. I wouldn’t go to a club and dance all night but some people find that worth it.

naphack.9346:

So you want to pay monthly fees for GW2?

Actually, I wouldn’t mind. I hate the freemium model quite a bit.

Jack Daniels.9723:

naphack.9346:

So you want to pay monthly fees for GW2?

Actually, I wouldn’t mind. I hate the freemium model quite a bit.

lucky you, a person with enough money to not to care that you might only use the product so much a month and still be able to just throw a certain amount away monthly without a second thought.
Also freemium indicates that by paying the fee you have an advantage. One that bought lots of gems has no advantage over me though.

Wetpaw.3487:

Hickeroar.9734:

Scrambles.2604:

Hickeroar.9734:

Scrambles.2604:

Hickeroar.9734:

I think ANet did a good job of balancing gold’s actual value in the game. You can shell out a ton of money and buy a completed legendary, sure. But what does that gain you? You get no in-game advantage by doing this…

If you want to CRAFT a legendary, you can buy your way about halfway there, and then you’re required to do a LOT of in-game stuff to complete it. You can’t buy your way to a crafted legendary.

Also, those people shelling out lots of money are keeping the game running, while people who aren’t shelling out any money are basically getting a free ride. Sounds a whole lot like America to me…

free ride? I paid $60 for this game. That’s hardly free.

The people shelling out money are getting the content they are paying for. I paid my share and i get the content i paid for, which doesn’t include backpacks, molten picks, etc.

Yes, and I paid overall a couple hundred on WoW and expansion packs…and then had to pay a subscription fee. So what? The fee keeps the game going. The gem store keeps the game going.

Buying the game is nothing more than paying for the 5 years of development that it took to make the game in the first place.

Sure the gem store does provide regular income for Anet, but this was all determined by budget projections based on 1). cost of running business. 2). predictive analysis of how much the cash shop would be used by the population, as well as projected revenue and profit from game sales.

if your business model is dependent on 100% of your user base using the cash shop, then that is a poor business model. If your analysis shows people are less likely to use the cash shop, then it will require a sub (see WoW subscription model, which existed before there was a plethora of data showing people are very likely to spend money on virtual goods).

How is it a poor business model if people are spending, and the game is still running?

I understand that it’s RISKY at the offset, to be sure, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I think it’s turned out to be a GREAT business model for them. It was a great business model in GW1, and it was so great that B2P and F2P imitators started popping up all over the place.

Arenanet is probably single-handedly responsible for the F2P craze that MMO games have turned into.

and they will help the mmo players realize a sub is the way to go, you’re right this is nothing more then a trend to pass, hopefully very soon. Many players starting to realize how beneficial a sub based mmo really is.

lets take a look after 8months of content..

1.No lfg tool….really in 8months
2. The most anticlimactic story ending ever (unfinished pushed out early, no fix yet)
3. World dragons that have AI of bowser from mario
4. No real reward system for WvW, no updates in maps, probably one of the leading reasons many players came to this game & one of the most ignored content in game by devs.
5.Legendary takes ZERO skill & revolves around the gem store b2p model
6. High end mats low drops=because of b2p gem store model
7. Horrible pve culling still
8.PvE endgame consisting of running the same dungeon 50x, then capped..
9. Guild bounty, out of all the interesting guild content that could have been introduced we get that.
10.Horrible economy ran by the gemstore and goldfarming sites

lets see what we got…
Silk shirts
$10mining picks
dyes
pets
flame&frost—-> yawn excuse for more gemstore content
funbox—-> yawn excuse for more gemstore content
Townclothes
RNG gamble boxes

the focus of development in this game is and always will be around the gemstore, not actual engaging substantial content.

It’s interesting that you think a monthly fee would fix this stuff. SWToR and Rift both charged a month fee. Neither launched with a looking for group finder. Anet is working on one. It took SWToR with it’s monthly fee six months to get it out. I don’t remember how long Rift’s took.

Are you suggesting the story in most pay to play MMOs is good? Because most pay to play MMOs never really had a personal story anyway. I know Tera was pay to play when it started. I guess you’re not going to tell me about how great taht story is. Or DDO.

A monthly fee wouldn’t fix this game or make it right. Some of the stuff will be fixed over time, such as the looking for group tool and some of it is just a matter of personal taste. Some people really like dyes and pets.

Vayne.8563:

Scrambles.2604:

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

I personally don’t see the value in intangible virtual content. It doesn’t have any practical value, your investment on your purchase depreciates IMMEDIATELY, so your funds can never be recovered (unless you ebay your account).

One could also argue that buying an MMO is worthless, because it would only last as long as the servers do.

Sure, you could definitely argue that. What your paying for is for server space for your account, which serves a function. In game aesthetic items lack that or any useful function.

That’s like saying going to the movies is worthless because after two hours, you’re going home. Playing tennis is worthless, because once you’’re done paying for the court, it’s over.

Anything that provides entertainment is worth something. How much is up to each individual. I wouldn’t go to a club and dance all night but some people find that worth it.

Movie theaters and providers of tennis courts are in the service industry. When I purchase a B2P game, I’m acquiring goods, in the form of software and art assets. Same as buying the Blu-ray instead of visiting the theater, or buying the music and spinning it yourself instead of visiting the club. Products that are, at least from one standpoint, tangible goods.

The people that buy gems for real cash are the ones providing A-Net with a cash flow in order to keep the doors open, servers on and new content coming all the time.

It’s either that or pay $15/month. Pick your choice.

It’s that simple.

Hoyvin.3241:

The people that buy gems for real cash are the ones providing A-Net with a cash flow in order to keep the doors open, servers on and new content coming all the time.

It’s either that or pay $15/month. Pick your choice.

It’s that simple.

The people who paid the box cost already fund those, because the product is sold as finished goods with a service guarantee.

Guys, the idea is this: With the excuse of gem-gold exchange, A-Nets consideres that everything they add in the cash shop is affordable by everyone and so, all the content they provide is available for all.
What I wanted to show is that, in this way, it will be easier to take everything out from the game rewards: weapons, armors, etc, and just put them in cash shop. People could just get the gold in the game from whatever activities they do, and then do the gold-gem exchange.

For example… they added the “daily costume brawler” to boost up costume sales.

and about of these mining picks: farming Bots have got an easier job now

I don’ t think that paying money on this game has any detrimental effect to other players. You say that you feel poor because you do not have the items they do and that they bought them from the store. You then call these players rich because they have something you do not. I have bought 3 character slots and a bank slot from the store but I would never consider myself rich. I spend about $50 a month on video games, either buying a new game, getting add-ons or what not and this month I spent it on GW. For the mining pick there have been discussions that say you need to mine 18,000 nodes for the pick to start making you money. That is a lot of mining!

The amount of money you need to actually buy something that people will be jealous of is ridiculous. twilight is 2300g in the trading post. 1-2g per 100 Gems = 8-16g for $10. You would have to spend $1437.5 to get enough money to buy an item people are jealous of.

In GW1 there was no store but there were still people who were rich in game. I only got 1 set of 15k armor the entire lifetime I played GW1 and that took me forever, mainly because I spent most of my money on skills.

There will always be people that have better items than you. Chances are they put more time in the game than you or just got lucky on a chest or drop. Some items are meant to be rare and to show off. Giving them to everyone kind of defeats the point of having a rare skin.

I don’t really understand what is the problem. Sure I agree a lot of the content that is only available in the gem-store should be available in the game itself. So mini’s, town clothing, and so on should also be available in the normal world. But the reason for that is not because else “rich people” can get them more easy but because it would become a part of the end-content. (the part that I am missing).

The rest of the comment seems like the basis socialist “I hate the rich” talk. If people are rich they can buy more yeah, so what? Thats not related to the game itself but just a fact of life. If you don’t like that then there are county’s where nobody is rich, try to find out if there is some national MMO there and try to play that. One warning, big change you are now the rich guy.

Yet still there is one other thing I would think that is good for the game and might be helpful for people like you. ArenaNet seems to be focused on the gem-store. When GW2 was released I expected that the Gem-Store would be more to get some additional income but the main income would come from the game and expansions and so I expected to see an expansion about once a year (because most subscription MMO’s have an expansion about every 2 years). Because of that I expected that by the time they released GW2 they already had a team working on the first expansion but recently I hearth they don’t really have a team working on an expansion and that may be the reason they focus so much on the gem-store. And with the introduction of the endless mining pick you can’t even say it’s pure cosmetic anymore because now you have an item that gives you the advantage of not having to bother about buying a new pick every-time. So according to the philosophy on ArenaNet that should be available in the world not in the Gem-Store.

Most games that are F2P focus a lot on there store and thats why those games become bad pretty fast. Best AreanaNet can do is focus on expansion for income and having the gem-store just as an extra.

Ronah.2869:

Guys, the idea is this: With the excuse of gem-gold exchange, A-Nets consideres that everything they add in the cash shop is affordable by everyone and so, all the content they provide is available for all.
What I wanted to show is that, in this way, it will be easier to take everything out from the game rewards: weapons, armors, etc, and just put them in cash shop. People could just get the gold in the game from whatever activities they do, and then do the gold-gem exchange.

For example… they added the “daily costume brawler” to boost up costume sales.

and about of these mining picks: farming Bots have got an easier job now

It’s been my understanding that their philosophy has been “nothing sold in the store is required to compete in the game.” IMO, they have been consistent in that philosophy.

RebelYell.7132:

Hoyvin.3241:

The people that buy gems for real cash are the ones providing A-Net with a cash flow in order to keep the doors open, servers on and new content coming all the time.

It’s either that or pay $15/month. Pick your choice.

It’s that simple.

The people who paid the box cost already fund those, because the product is sold as finished goods with a service guarantee.

Nonsense. In order for A-Net to stay open, they have to have cash flow. Up-front sales is not going to do that, especially in light of the “no paid expansion soon” declaration. The money we paid for the original box went to pay NC-Soft for the 5 years of development that they fronted to A-Net. The cash for five years of paying developers has to come from somewhere. NC-Soft isn’t doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, and neither is A-Net.

Finished goods? In an MMO? An MMO, or at least a successful MMO, is never “finished goods.” Let’s look at WoW. Four expansions that you had to pay for. Numerous non-paid expasions like Firelands or Dragon Soul. They have a $15/month fee. GW2 does not, for comparatively priced base products. Why do you suppose that is?

Read the EULA. I guarantee in there is a clause in there that they can change whatever they want in that game whenever they want, for whatever reason they want, and without telling you about it.

Scrambles.2604:

It’s been my understanding that their philosophy has been “nothing sold in the store is required to compete in the game.” IMO, they have been consistent in that philosophy.

Absolutely 100% consistant.

Hoyvin.3241:

RebelYell.7132:

Hoyvin.3241:

The people that buy gems for real cash are the ones providing A-Net with a cash flow in order to keep the doors open, servers on and new content coming all the time.

It’s either that or pay $15/month. Pick your choice.

It’s that simple.

The people who paid the box cost already fund those, because the product is sold as finished goods with a service guarantee.

Nonsense. In order for A-Net to stay open, they have to have cash flow. Up-front sales is not going to do that, especially in light of the “no paid expansion soon” declaration.

Finished goods? In an MMO? An MMO, or at least a successful MMO, is never “finished goods.” Let’s look at WoW. Four expansions that you had to pay for. Numerous non-paid expasions like Firelands or Dragon Soul. They have a $15/month fee. GW2 does not, for comparatively priced base products. Why do you suppose that is?

Read the EULA. I guarantee in there is a clause in there that they can change whatever they want in that game whenever they want, for whatever reason they want, and without telling you about it.

It’s not an MMORPG. It’s a B2P online RPG, the legacy of Guild Wars 1. MMORPGs are virtual worlds such as Ultima Online: The Second Age, this is an RPG where sometimes a faceless horde will show up to do an event with you.

If they’ve designed the game as such that box sales cannot cover server overhead, and require “whales” (actual marketing term), IE the three and four (and sometimes five) figure spenders to keep the game afloat, then they shouldn’t market the game as an online RPG like Guild Wars 1, they should market it as Farmville, because its companies like Zynga and Mobage and such that typically play that way.

Celestina.2894:

Is someone seriously accusing the mining pick of being pay to win?

The mining pick where you need some impossible number of uses to break even?

You do know you can purchase the ori gathering tools with karma right? And at a hilariously low karma price at that?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mining_Pick

To put that into context:

17g = 1700s

@ 4s per 25 that is 425 stacks (or 10625 uses)

To break even on the purchase of that pick you would probably need to do nothing but run around mining for at least a month.

the more money you have the more work you have put in RL and in game. some get lottery lucky but most work hard. so stop complaining and work for your money in game and out.

what’s with this generation. all you want is everything for nothing.

RebelYell.7132:

Hoyvin.3241:

RebelYell.7132:

Hoyvin.3241:

The people that buy gems for real cash are the ones providing A-Net with a cash flow in order to keep the doors open, servers on and new content coming all the time.

It’s either that or pay $15/month. Pick your choice.

It’s that simple.

The people who paid the box cost already fund those, because the product is sold as finished goods with a service guarantee.

Nonsense. In order for A-Net to stay open, they have to have cash flow. Up-front sales is not going to do that, especially in light of the “no paid expansion soon” declaration.

Finished goods? In an MMO? An MMO, or at least a successful MMO, is never “finished goods.” Let’s look at WoW. Four expansions that you had to pay for. Numerous non-paid expasions like Firelands or Dragon Soul. They have a $15/month fee. GW2 does not, for comparatively priced base products. Why do you suppose that is?

Read the EULA. I guarantee in there is a clause in there that they can change whatever they want in that game whenever they want, for whatever reason they want, and without telling you about it.

It’s not an MMORPG. It’s a B2P online RPG, the legacy of Guild Wars 1. MMORPGs are virtual worlds such as Ultima Online: The Second Age, this is an RPG where sometimes a faceless horde will show up to do an event with you.

If they’ve designed the game as such that box sales cannot cover server overhead, and require “whales” (actual marketing term), IE the three and four (and sometimes five) figure spenders to keep the game afloat, then they shouldn’t market the game as an online RPG like Guild Wars 1, they should market it as Farmville, because its companies like Zynga and Mobage and such that typically play that way.

Me thinks you do not understand the concept of MMORPG. GW1 was still an MMO because of the people playing it. The instances effected the world but you could always find people to play with. GW2 is an MMO. you can find people to play with and join guilds to go on adventures with. Box sales rarely ever cover the cost of maintaining the game. GW1 had account upgrades the same way GW2 does. It also had multiple expansions and PvP skill sets you could buy.

GW has always had a way to pay to change the style of the game. They do not force you to buy anything to play the game but if you want to buy something they have many options.

Wetpaw.3487:

No you may not be a beginner, just a player w/low expectations of a MMO. If you are happy replaying same content over and over (wvw, fotm, alts) then this is the game for you, if you are happy w/gemstore content taking priority of real content, this game is for you. Purely subjective to the player.

Just note this now, NCsoft is aware of this, this game has entertained certain type of MMO player (you!), and that is why many of us are waiting for the other big name NCsoft game realeasing this year that will cater to the rest of us MMo players that expect more then what gw2 will ever offer.

Lost all interest? No, never said that. I will log in for a hour or so a week for wvw.

I know my comments may go against your opinion and general sense of fanboys that believe all criticism has malicious intent, but to bad, something to do w/my morning coffee.

I like how because I disagree with you, you go on to insult me by calling my expectations “low”.

RebelYell.7132:

It’s not an MMORPG. It’s a B2P online RPG, the legacy of Guild Wars 1. MMORPGs are virtual worlds such as Ultima Online: The Second Age, this is an RPG where sometimes a faceless horde will show up to do an event with you.

If they’ve designed the game as such that box sales cannot cover server overhead, and require “whales” (actual marketing term), IE the three and four (and sometimes five) figure spenders to keep the game afloat, then they shouldn’t market the game as an online RPG like Guild Wars 1, they should market it as Farmville, because its companies like Zynga and Mobage and such that typically play that way.

Argue semantics all you want, we all know what an MMO is. MMO stands for “Massively-Multiplayer Online” I think you know that. You’ve already said it was an RPG. So, by definition, it is an MMORPG. How is GW2 not a virtual world?

This is the business model they’ve chosen, and I expect we’ll see more of it in the future. And, because of this business model, you are allowed to continue to play, without a monthly fee, because people pay them money for gem store items.

Nobody has designed an online game where the boxed cost covers server overhead for the life of the game. Not with the volume we’re talking about here.

I havent spend a penny yet in the gw2 gem shop and havent ever felt the need to.
Infact i got alot of gold right now but i want to buy some gems just to support Anet.

Sure you can get gold by having alot of money in real life but gold is NOT HARD TO GET AT ALL INGAME. So you really, really dont need to. Hence no reason to even bring this up at all.

Ronah.2869:

Guys, the idea is this: With the excuse of gem-gold exchange, A-Nets consideres that everything they add in the cash shop is affordable by everyone and so, all the content they provide is available for all.
What I wanted to show is that, in this way, it will be easier to take everything out from the game rewards: weapons, armors, etc, and just put them in cash shop. People could just get the gold in the game from whatever activities they do, and then do the gold-gem exchange.

For example… they added the “daily costume brawler” to boost up costume sales.

and about of these mining picks: farming Bots have got an easier job now

Not really. They pay or steal an account 60 bucks, pay for a mining pick on 1 character.. Then get the entire account banned. That makes no sense money wise, this won’t help them. They don’t want to spend, they want to make.

Geotherma.2395:

Not really. They pay or steal an account 60 bucks, pay for a mining pick on 1 character.. Then get the entire account banned. That makes no sense money wise, this won’t help them. They don’t want to spend, they want to make.

Mining bots are hard to catch / report. They spend less then 3 seconds in a spot to just 1 hit. Even if you are mining the same nod, you are not quik enough to select the character and send a report.
Farming bots are reportable by normal players, mining bots are not.

RebelYell.7132:

Vayne.8563:

Scrambles.2604:

Mirta.5029:

Scrambles.2604:

I personally don’t see the value in intangible virtual content. It doesn’t have any practical value, your investment on your purchase depreciates IMMEDIATELY, so your funds can never be recovered (unless you ebay your account).

One could also argue that buying an MMO is worthless, because it would only last as long as the servers do.

Sure, you could definitely argue that. What your paying for is for server space for your account, which serves a function. In game aesthetic items lack that or any useful function.

That’s like saying going to the movies is worthless because after two hours, you’re going home. Playing tennis is worthless, because once you’’re done paying for the court, it’s over.

Anything that provides entertainment is worth something. How much is up to each individual. I wouldn’t go to a club and dance all night but some people find that worth it.

Movie theaters and providers of tennis courts are in the service industry. When I purchase a B2P game, I’m acquiring goods, in the form of software and art assets. Same as buying the Blu-ray instead of visiting the theater, or buying the music and spinning it yourself instead of visiting the club. Products that are, at least from one standpoint, tangible goods.

Just a small point, but technically you’re wrong. When you buy a b2p game, or even a p2p game, whatever online game you buy, you’re not buying the game, but buying the ability to log-in and play. The account never really belongs to you (else you’d have the ability to resell it, like, say a car). With online games, you’re buying the service that is to play them, or if you want, with p2p games like wow, you’re buying the time to be able to play. Same thing with buying dvds or watching movies in movie theaters. You never really own the movie (sure you have the physical copy, but the movie never belongs to you). What you do own, is the ability to watch the movie in the comfort of your own home as many times as you want so long as you don’t show it in public/charge people money to watch it. Same with tennis courts. You don’t own the court. You own the time to be able to play on the court (as well as a rental of their lockers, being able to use the showers, etc).

Online games and other things like this are really more service-oriented than products-oriented. (examples of products are, say, cars, electronics/computers, to an extent books, clothes, land/house depending on your country’s laws, etc).

mercury ranique.2170:

There is and need to be a balance.
On one hand the game needs to make money. The gemstore is a great way for doing so. On the other hand, the advantage of having money shouldn’t be too high. The main question should be if someone with less money has valid reasons to feel left out.

I do not see it that way. I have very limited money in real life but there is nothing in the gemstore I feel like I’m really missing.

The main criteria cannot be, “Someone with less money has valid reason to feel left out.” Someone is always going to feel left out, and their reasons will always be valid to them.

I’m glad you don’t see “it” that way. Fwiw, I don’t either.

Frankly, the only competition in GW2 is in PvP. If something in the gem store gives a significant advantage in PvP, that would be pay to win. Everything else is just pay to look cool, pay for convenience, etc.

Ronah.2869:

Geotherma.2395:

Not really. They pay or steal an account 60 bucks, pay for a mining pick on 1 character.. Then get the entire account banned. That makes no sense money wise, this won’t help them. They don’t want to spend, they want to make.

Mining bots are hard to catch / report. They spend less then 3 seconds in a spot to just 1 hit. Even if you are mining the same nod, you are not quik enough to select the character and send a report.
Farming bots are reportable by normal players, mining bots are not.

But that is assuming Arenanet has zero mechanics,code, ability to spot them. Which I highly doubt. i don’t disagree that it is hard to report them, but sooner or later those types of bots will be out of business as well. A good patch to block it, or a design to catch it and they lose out. I doubt GW2 is a very profitable game for RMT compared to others.

Just feel I should add this in – most “rich” people in the world don’t easily get to where they are and most have been working since they were legally able to work so they can achieve that level of work and earn their fortunes. Being rich is a nice outcome to a lot of hard work so I think if you do reach that level when you’ve put in all the work for it then you should be allowed to do what you like and seeing as this is a game where buying nice things with real money is acceptable and encouraged then I don’t think they should be slated for that.

Like it’s been said a lot already, the game would have to be P2P if they removed the gem store and I’d much rather someone looking “better” than me, but being able to play free for as long as I want. Besides, the items on the gem store are hardly bank breaking and only the people buying serious amounts of gems for gold are the people benefitting slightly, but even then if they choose to waste that money on a game they most probably have earned that right by working their way up in real life. Like I said, it takes a lot to be rich and really doesn’t come easy.

Jaall.3420:

Just feel I should add this in – most “rich” people in the world don’t easily get to where they are and most have been working since they were legally able to work so they can achieve that level of work and earn their fortunes. Being rich is a nice outcome to a lot of hard work so I think if you do reach that level when you’ve put in all the work for it then you should be allowed to do what you like and seeing as this is a game where buying nice things with real money is acceptable and encouraged then I don’t think they should be slated for that.

Like it’s been said a lot already, the game would have to be P2P if they removed the gem store and I’d much rather someone looking “better” than me, but being able to play free for as long as I want. Besides, the items on the gem store are hardly bank breaking and only the people buying serious amounts of gems for gold are the people benefitting slightly, but even then if they choose to waste that money on a game they most probably have earned that right by working their way up in real life. Like I said, it takes a lot to be rich and really doesn’t come easy.

Yep. Those people in real life that everyone call rich in game, they din’t get there (most of them) by just inheriting tons of money. Most of them worked hard or went through years of training or work to get to where they are. So if they have every item on the gem store, good for them. They deserve it, but in no way makes them better at the game as far as progression or unfair advantage. Gold in game can only by you so much.

Wetpaw.3487:

Mirta.5029:

Wetpaw.3487:

No you may not be a beginner, just a player w/low expectations of a MMO. If you are happy replaying same content over and over (wvw, fotm, alts) then this is the game for you, if you are happy w/gemstore content taking priority of real content, this game is for you. Purely subjective to the player.

Just note this now, NCsoft is aware of this, this game has entertained certain type of MMO player (you!), and that is why many of us are waiting for the other big name NCsoft game realeasing this year that will cater to the rest of us MMo players that expect more then what gw2 will ever offer.

Lost all interest? No, never said that. I will log in for a hour or so a week for wvw.

I know my comments may go against your opinion and general sense of fanboys that believe all criticism has malicious intent, but to bad, something to do w/my morning coffee.

I like how because I disagree with you, you go on to insult me by calling my expectations “low”.

I apologize you have taken that as a insult “Purely subjective to the player.” But it still is true. You’re a GW2 fan, and a fan of the current model, this current model is subpar to the general concept that a mmo should provide endgame.

SWTOR had the very same problems, no real MMO players, all SW fans. They shielded w/low expectations for that game, while many of us were bringing criticism & concerns for the state of the game since beta. Did anyone listen? Nope. Look where it’s going now.

Maybe if gamers held these companies accountable on a product instead of cheering for mediocrity we would see better games then swtor, tera, teso, gw2 and many more. Instead the current MMO business model of Hype, get that niche base of fanboys, sell , milk it, and then don’t give care no more since they made already a huge profit.

on topic, endgame will and is suffering because of the gem store b2p model of endgame IS the gemstore that consists of any new “content” to be bought through RL cash or endless grind of low quality endgame to purchase.

what is your idea of endgame if guild wars 2 has none? Raids so you could continue your gear progression, that will lead nowhere just to the many hours lost? What did people do when they got the highest level gear in WoW? Stand around in cities? PvP and WvW is what most MMOs use as end game and this MMO does have it.
I didn’t see you needing gemstore to accomplish any of the end game. How about learning to use the TP correctly? How about investing in things that will have more value later? Playing the economics was and still is a huge part of most MMOs. If you know how to be smart you’ll get all the vanity items that you might consider endgame (like a legendary), however even without any skill with money you’ll have just as good gear as everyone else (exotics).
SWTOR mostly had problems of false advertising (saying that they’re free to play, but only providing a short demo), subscription fee, not introducing any new mechanics to the MMO genre and being very buggy.
Now if in your opinion all people playing current MMOs (Guild Wars 2, Tera) have poor taste, what is good taste in MMos? Are you sure that you’re not the minority grasping the old roots because it makes you comfortable?

Well I don’t care, if they want to buy their way through the game so be it, I don’t find that fun at all. But that money goes to Anet and they deserve every penny spent on this game, it’s amazing.

For some reason people still think MMO developers cannot work on one thing without expense in another area.

Just because a cash shop item is developed does not mean they took away from developing a new map or making a new event. Each thing takes different people with different skillsets.

Its not: HALT ALL WORK GUYS WERE MAKING A QUAGGAN BACKPACK. In reality 3-6 people work on the item with varying levels of time. It gets modeled, textured, rigged, animated, and if it needs it sounds and particles added to it.
Cash shop items like the quaggan backpack pay for themselves and then some by probably a large factor, meaning that the money they brought in selling the quaggan backpack not only pays for the small team responsible for making it, but it also pays for the guys working on the end game features that we want, like the removal of culling, more level 80 content, living story development, guild features development which will eventually include guild halls.

Its not a zero sum game here, which is another mistake a lot of critics make.

The term MMO also has a definition, so you can be wrong in your opinion on whether or not GW2 is an MMO.

Officially:
GW2 is an MMORPG
GW1 is a CORPG though oft labeled MMORPG (incorrectly).

I’ve never had a hobby as inexpensive as my computer gaming, and I spend on gems all the time.

Compare this to most leisure pursuits and it’s cheap. Heck, I bet most adults who drink spend more in one night at a bar than I spend on this game in a month.

Technically if you spent 15$ a month in gems you would have all the vanity items in the store by now.

Not a legendary yes, but all the vanity items they have released up till now.

Just because someone has more things does not always mean they are rich. They could be in debt. About to lose their job or business. What responsible rich person would just waste money on a game?

Onshidesigns.1069:

Just because someone has more things does not always mean they are rich. They could be in debt. About to lose their job or business. What responsible rich person would just waste money on a game?

Rosario Dawson
Megan Fox
Mila Kunis
Seth Rogen
Jessica Alba
Jenny McCarthy
Daniel Craig
Snoop Dogg
Zac Efron
Jodie Foster

there’s more…

Not solely MMO’s, but I would say a lot of rich responsible (does not apply to all people listed..) people can and do play/buy games.

It goes many ways though. Not everyone who has money is rich, not every rich person has tons of money (could be capital in other forms), and not every player who has many things means they are rich irl or in game necessarily.

Geotherma.2395:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Just because someone has more things does not always mean they are rich. They could be in debt. About to lose their job or business. What responsible rich person would just waste money on a game?

Rosario Dawson
Megan Fox
Mila Kunis
Seth Rogen
Jessica Alba
Jenny McCarthy
Daniel Craig
Snoop Dogg
Zac Efron
Jodie Foster

there’s more…

Not solely MMO’s, but I would say a lot of rich responsible (does not apply to all people listed..) people can and do play/buy games.

This thread has derailed so hard it is now in the middle of the ocean.

Wetpaw.3487:

Raids, meaningful skill based legendary, any kind of content that brings players together for an extended period of time feeling a growth of accomplishment.

and I already stated that it’s a) a way to prolong the game for no good reason b) a way to make it grindy and I already asked what do you do in WoW after you get the top gear. You have not answered that yet.

Wetpaw.3487:

Gw2-
Guild bounty…joking right, consider this meaningful content that brings guilds together.
World Dragons- You really think burning down this boss of 2013 w/the AI of bowser from Nes is worthy endgame? Really?
WvW has been pushed aside for fluff content for the last 8 months, really?
FOTM same dungeon 50x while my lvl 80 has excess of 30+rings and all frac weapons, and once again no updates to that content because once again this game is producing content revolving around gem store?

I suggested to consider WvW and PvP as end game content. You seem to completely have overlooked that.

Wetpaw.3487:

That’s because the gem store IS THE ENDGAME, jeez is that not clear yet. W/o a sub model , this gw2 model for endgame is extremely quick w/a very low endgame that is getting no new real content due to the gemstore. The gem store is the reason for horrible drops rates, those drop rates in returned have made crafting horrible (outside of using it for lvl’n and legendary), legendaries are not skill based and once again content fixed around the gem store, low drop rates. All this fluff funbox, holiday events, flame&frost, ALL once again revolve around the GEMSTORE and taking away content from the true endgame.

Well I don’t know what you’re playing but unless you’re grinding normally you don’t get horrible drop rates. Need T6 mats? Run a few high end dungeons. They drop a lot. How does Sab revolve around the gem store? How does the living story quests revolve around the gem store? Did anyone forced you to buy themed dyes just to progress in the living story or something? Also how do you play the gem store? Because if the gem store all you see as end game, then…

Wetpaw.3487:

How about just logging in and playing w/friends and the community, crazy concept huh. Think Anet was like “wow how about we add excel monitor TP minigame becuase thats fun!” Or maybe, lets give a time sink that doesn’t involve real content, or here we go again, because of the GEMSTORE.

how about just noting of the items whose price will increase, buy them out, put them in your bank and re-sell a few months later. Gee it would take you even 30 seconds! So long! The same is always being done in WoW too just so you know

Wetpaw.3487:

you really think Legendary in this game takes skill, cmon….

Where did in my post I mentioned anything about skill?

Wetpaw.3487:

I’m very sure, and do you mean old roots as in the same game that is over 10years old, losing resources due to “hidden project” by the same company still pulling more subs then most of these push to sell mmos put together, then yes I do. Give it to the end of this year and maybe this post will come to light when many of us move ships to those old roots. B2p – f2p have ruined this MMO standards.

I’m so sorry that you’re unable to adapt anymore and the boat is sailing away without you.

Wetpaw.3487:

and the players saying well it only taken 3 dev to work on a silk shirt, well how about we add ALL the fluff together that revolves around Content released over 8months, Gem store content, Gem store related content (funbox, flame&frost,holiday, etc..) and add all that fluff content, resources together, and 8months should give you clear picture that when a dev posts something along the lines that it used limited resources and funding ends up being kinda a load.

And you seem to forget all the re-balancing that was done, fractals, new zone, one time karka event, dungeon re-balance that’s still going on, reprogramming to stop culling in WvW, focusing on taking culling out of PVE, re-doing some of the WvW maps, solving exploits, solving glitches, re-doing event chest loot, working on solving dungeon chest loot and all of that nice stuff that takes work force -_-

Scrambles.2604:

Geotherma.2395:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Just because someone has more things does not always mean they are rich. They could be in debt. About to lose their job or business. What responsible rich person would just waste money on a game?

Rosario Dawson
Megan Fox
Mila Kunis
Seth Rogen
Jessica Alba
Jenny McCarthy
Daniel Craig
Snoop Dogg
Zac Efron
Jodie Foster

there’s more…

Not solely MMO’s, but I would say a lot of rich responsible (does not apply to all people listed..) people can and do play/buy games.

This thread has derailed so hard it is now in the middle of the ocean.

Lols. Okay sorry. “I am not rich in real life, but many people in game think I am because I have hundreds of items/features that they may not.(right now)” But that in no way makes me better than them. I do spend more cash on this game than most, that i can admit. But, I do not convert to gold, so my money is in my items,features. Anyone who earns gold in game can receive the same.

Well Wetpaw, I guess this is farewell from us to you. I’m sorry that you’ll be missing out on MMOs in future, but please do continue to be a good old forum warrior and dis games with conspiracy theories and falsehoods because it’s funny for us!

Scrambles.2604:

Geotherma.2395:

Onshidesigns.1069:

Just because someone has more things does not always mean they are rich. They could be in debt. About to lose their job or business. What responsible rich person would just waste money on a game?

Rosario Dawson
Megan Fox
Mila Kunis
Seth Rogen
Jessica Alba
Jenny McCarthy
Daniel Craig
Snoop Dogg
Zac Efron
Jodie Foster

there’s more…

Not solely MMO’s, but I would say a lot of rich responsible (does not apply to all people listed..) people can and do play/buy games.

This thread has derailed so hard it is now in the middle of the ocean.

I knew when I got my PM notifying me that it had been moved out of Suggestions, that it was time to make some popcorn.

As I have shown before this game is geared for the casual player. Most of these are in an age range of 30 to 60. Within the age range are the highest paid people who have the most disposable income.

A smart company would market a game that would please these players thus encouraging them to use that disposable income to this company.

What company would that be? Anet

What is the game? Guild Wars 2

There are people who play guild wars more than 40+ hours a week. More than a full time job. Those are the people most invested in their characters. Sure, you can spend $500 and get all 9 of your characters outfitted in “leet” gear. If that’s your thing, to walk around in leet gear, and you have $500 to spare, I say more power to you. Or if you’re one of the enraptured, you could never spend a dime, spend instead 300 hours or so of your time with a single character getting much the same.

Honestly I don’t see the problem, most people aren’t willing to spend either 300 hours or 100 dollars on a single character. The best gear is still relatively rare, most don’t have it. There’s no game out there where you can’t buy gold, if you’re rich in real life, you can pay someone to get what you need regardless. Though I personally consider 500-1000 dollars hardly the realm of the rich and famous, that much money can buy you whatever you want in any game.

Whatever the real life cost, so long as they keep the “best” gear relatively rare, I care very little who owns it. It continues to be something to aspire to, and therefor a reason to keep playing. Much better that than to make it common place to shoot rainbow unicorns.

Rich vs Poor, Men vs Women, Old vs Young, one race vs another race…

Class warfare. It doesn’t actually exist IRL, but it is necessary to create for certain ideologies to survive. Our educational institutions have been remarkably effective in creating and promulgating it. It even comes up in gaming communities. Maybe it is preferable in a gaming community to simply deal with the actual class warfare, you know, warrior vs guardian, that kind of thing.

Mirta.5029:

Jack Daniels.9723:

naphack.9346:

So you want to pay monthly fees for GW2?

Actually, I wouldn’t mind. I hate the freemium model quite a bit.

lucky you, a person with enough money to not to care that you might only use the product so much a month and still be able to just throw a certain amount away monthly without a second thought.
Also freemium indicates that by paying the fee you have an advantage. One that bought lots of gems has no advantage over me though.

Nope, they have absolutely no advantage over you. They can’t simply buy gems, sell them for in-game gold, or use them to purchase things that will somehow net them in-game gold. Totally can’t. This post does not reek of sarcasm.

Anyway, I don’t really “throw away money” at all. If I paid monthly for something, I would also want to use it an amount that befits the money I’m using on it. FYI, after you get a job you’ll realize that 15 dollars a month for something that you enjoy is really almost trash. You’re talking 180 dollars a year. And as a bonus, you tend to get better customer service and everything, which is the main part of the freemium model that is seriously lacking. People are like “oh you don’t HAVE to pay to keep playing this and kittenlololo”, so naturally they treat the developers like they’re giving players out candy for nothing, and so no one should expect anything of the developers. Which is total bs, really. But hey whatever. I can’t make people less stupid.

With subscription models at least everything that you can obtain in the game… is obtained via means in the game. This is what I miss about it.

Jack Daniels.9723:

With subscription models at least everything that you can obtain in the game… is obtained via means in the game. This is what I miss about it.

Everything that you can obtain within the game CAN be obtained from in game means. Furthermore, nothing grants any significant advantage over anyone else.. Obtained in game or otherwise.

Besides, people buy gold in every game, subscription or not. While it may be unspoken in other games, at least in this one it doesn’t exponentially increase one’s effectiveness.

Meryt.9823:

Rich does not equal cool, often the very reverse.
Sure I know rich folk that are cool, but plenty of poor folk that are wayyy cool.
Cool is about how creative you are, not about being able to afford the latest designer outfit.

PS you can still get everything for free if you grind gold, buy gems with gold etc. just takes time. Eh , but cool is patient too.

Yup, this guy gets it. To quote an 80s No Fear t-shirt “He who dies with the most toys, still dies”