Guild Wars 2

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Your looking for instant gratification which in the short-run is good but in the long run (in this case wouldn’t be that long) would cause more trouble than good. Look at this way getting sex with a random person is instant gratification. You get into a relationship with a GF for a Long term gratification though. Its something you work on and build towards and than maintain.

Who cares about economy. I wasn’t buying economic simulator. Rare items should be rare enough, but reachable without such amount of grind. And grind should be FUN and CHALLENGING, not brainless skill 1 click.

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Your looking for instant gratification which in the short-run is good but in the long run (in this case wouldn’t be that long) would cause more trouble than good. Look at this way getting sex with a random person is instant gratification. You get into a relationship with a GF for a Long term gratification though. Its something you work on and build towards and than maintain.

Who cares about economy. I wasn’t buying economic simulator. Rare items should be rare enough, but reachable without such amount of grind. And grind should be FUN and CHALLENGING, not brainless skill 1 click.

A large portion of the player base cares about the economy. Rare items wouldn’t be rare if they were guaranteed. There hasn’t been a challenging MMO to date thus far since all mechanics in MMOs are simplistic. Only challenge that appears in MMO is when it comes to PVP. If a rare is reachable with very little gold then it is not rare. For instance go out and try to buy a painting by Leonardo Da Vinci. Its going to cost a lot cause its rare. Go out and buy a pencil its cheap cause its not rare. Economics 101 do I have to go back to the basics with you?

Expect to pay a lot more for items that are harder to obtain. The economy is a market economy is based on how much gold there is in the economy and how easy the item is to obtain determines the price of the object. So an item that is rare is going to be worth more than an item that isn’t. So if you input a huge amount of money into the economy but don’t change the how easy it is to obtain an item the price of that item is going to increase (this is called inflation). If you keep the same amount of money in the economy but change the ease of acquirement of item than the price of that item will fall making it not rare any more.

There is your economics 101 if you need more information please don’t be afraid to ask because your asking to destroy the economy. Oh also when that occurs the reason why you wanted those items (for selling) would be gone as well.

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Sirendor.1394:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Just because some games have even worse designers doesn’t make the rng and grind in gw2 acceptable…. It just means it’s not the worst contender. Also GW2 is aimed for a us/eu audience, the audiences who least enjoy long terrible grinds.

Name one MMORPG that has better RNG and grind?

That isn’t hard. Guild Wars 1.

Explain why to you that it has better RNG and grind.

No, don’t explain it, because you will take all this time to explain it and they’ll use a 1 sentence come back to discredit you with 0 back-up or just tell you its an opinion. We’ve been over this already and they’ll just kitten you off. Save yourself the time.

I haven’t used a single one liner against a person’s opinion of why they think a certain game is better in grind and RNG. If you make a sound argument for the reason why I will respond in kind with what I think about it and usually provide a mini summary of what i gathered from that reading. For example the person on the first page about party/squad loot distribution.

All this game IS is kittening economics. There’s no real game to it because nothing is really obtainable without sinking tons of time and money into it. And that’s… pretty much it.

ronpierce.2760:

All this game IS is kittening economics. There’s no real game to it because nothing is really obtainable without sinking tons of time and money into it. And that’s… pretty much it.

Sinking tons of time is fine, if you get something back.

Suddenflame.2601:

In PW, FW, and WoW to even get to the fun you need the rewards.

The same can be true in GW2.

Also keep inmind that PW and FW are true F2P games without an initial buy in through a box purchase. The games are designed around grind while the cash shop provides means of shortcutting to the desired goal. Not a very good choice for comparison IMO.

Afya.5842:

ronpierce.2760:

All this game IS is kittening economics. There’s no real game to it because nothing is really obtainable without sinking tons of time and money into it. And that’s… pretty much it.

Sinking tons of time is fine, if you get something back.

Games are time sinks, and you play them to receive fun in return. So why play a game for any other reason? If you don’t find a task fun why perform that task?

Ashen.2907:

Suddenflame.2601:

In PW, FW, and WoW to even get to the fun you need the rewards.

The same can be true in GW2.

Also keep inmind that PW and FW are true F2P games without an initial buy in through a box purchase. The games are designed around grind while the cash shop provides means of shortcutting to the desired goal. Not a very good choice for comparison IMO.

GW2 you can play any content as long as your max level, but you don’t need the rewarded gear to be successful to see more of the content (expect FOTM but it was designed and told to be that way). Nothing is prohibiting my lvl20 thief from entering WvW. There is nothing prohibiting a warrior lvl80 in masterwork armour from entering any of the games content. That is not the same as WoW, PW, and FW which requires you to have the rewarded gear to see more content.

The comparison is between MMORPGs and their design choice of gear gated content compared to nongated content so it is relevant.

Suddenflame.2601:

Ashen.2907:

Suddenflame.2601:

In PW, FW, and WoW to even get to the fun you need the rewards.

The same can be true in GW2.

Also keep inmind that PW and FW are true F2P games without an initial buy in through a box purchase. The games are designed around grind while the cash shop provides means of shortcutting to the desired goal. Not a very good choice for comparison IMO.

GW2 you can play any content as long as your max level, but you don’t need the rewarded gear to be successful to see more of the content (expect FOTM but it was designed and told to be that way). Nothing is prohibiting my lvl20 thief from entering WvW. There is nothing prohibiting a warrior lvl80 in masterwork armour from entering any of the games content. That is not the same as WoW, PW, and FW which requires you to have the rewarded gear to see more content.

The comparison is between MMORPGs and their design choice of gear gated content compared to nongated content so it is relevant.

You said, “to get to the fun.”

The fun, for me at least, is running round in the game world playing through various content, enjoying the combat mechanics, at max level…using BiS gear. In order to, “get to the fun,” the rewards are needed.

Ashen.2907:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ashen.2907:

Suddenflame.2601:

In PW, FW, and WoW to even get to the fun you need the rewards.

The same can be true in GW2.

Also keep inmind that PW and FW are true F2P games without an initial buy in through a box purchase. The games are designed around grind while the cash shop provides means of shortcutting to the desired goal. Not a very good choice for comparison IMO.

GW2 you can play any content as long as your max level, but you don’t need the rewarded gear to be successful to see more of the content (expect FOTM but it was designed and told to be that way). Nothing is prohibiting my lvl20 thief from entering WvW. There is nothing prohibiting a warrior lvl80 in masterwork armour from entering any of the games content. That is not the same as WoW, PW, and FW which requires you to have the rewarded gear to see more content.

The comparison is between MMORPGs and their design choice of gear gated content compared to nongated content so it is relevant.

You said, “to get to the fun.”

The fun, for me at least, is running round in the game world playing through various content, enjoying the combat mechanics, at max level…using BiS gear. In order to, “get to the fun,” the rewards are needed.

You can enjoy the content (if you enjoy the content), enjoy the combat mechanics (if you like the combat mechanics), and be at max level without having rewards. BiS gear you need rewards but if that’s what it takes for you to be happy I just have to say that is pretty shallow.

I have less complaint with RNG and grind (although grind could stand to be tuned down a bit) than I do bloody Diminishing Returns.

To clarify the grind comment – Grind doesn’t bother me if rewarding in general (not talking about “as long as I get what I want” – I mean getting something other than a 6cp piece of junk).

KarateKid.5648:

I have less complaint with RNG and grind (although grind could stand to be tuned down a bit) than I do bloody Diminishing Returns.

To clarify the grind comment – Grind doesn’t bother me if rewarding in general (not talking about “as long as I get what I want” – I mean getting something other than a 6cp piece of junk).

If your seeing DR I am sorry to say but you need to stop grinding (or botting). DR doesn’t kick in for hours of you killing monsters over and over again in a single area. So if you are seeing DR you been in the same area over and over killing the same creatures over and over. Cure for it is going to another area lol

In summary…

RNG or grind or what-so-ever is a choice and not a necessity.
The reward from the RNG or grind or what-so-ever is not equivalent to the efforts put in but then again, it is a choice and not a necessity.

Incorrect. The reward is completely necessary when going from Exotic to Ascended if you play wvw.

it will be hard to find a correlation that having ascended gears in wvw is necessary when numbers alone is capable of shadowing everything, not to forget the skills and coordination

SkyShroud.2865:

it will be hard to find a correlation that having ascended gears in wvw is necessary when numbers alone is capable of shadowing everything

A thief can let you know pretty quick in less than bis gear. :P

ronpierce.2760:

Incorrect. The reward is completely necessary when going from Exotic to Ascended if you play wvw.

It is not necessary. A person in masterwork armour could pawn a person in exotic armour as it has been done many times before. You apparently do not play WvW enough. There is hardly any instance that your on par with someone else skill level. In WvW your more likely to be part of the zerg therefore your rank of armour will have very little effect on the whole. Also, WvW is competitive Server vs. server not person vs. person level.

ronpierce.2760:

SkyShroud.2865:

it will be hard to find a correlation that having ascended gears in wvw is necessary when numbers alone is capable of shadowing everything

A thief can let you know pretty quick in less than bis gear. :P

Regardless of your armour a thief will let you know if your a zerker or not. A lvl30 nonzerker would stand up against a thief burst. Anything zerker vs thief is just dead.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Incorrect. The reward is completely necessary when going from Exotic to Ascended if you play wvw.

It is not necessary. A person in masterwork armour could pawn a person in exotic armour as it has been done many times before. You apparently do not play WvW enough. There is hardly any instance that your on par with someone else skill level. In WvW your more likely to be part of the zerg therefore your rank of armour will have very little effect on the whole. Also, WvW is competitive Server vs. server not person vs. person level.

Yet another person claiming that a clear gear advantage isn’t an advantage. Your game has a gear treadmill now, brah. And it will continue with legendary armor, lol

ronpierce.2760:

SkyShroud.2865:

it will be hard to find a correlation that having ascended gears in wvw is necessary when numbers alone is capable of shadowing everything

A thief can let you know pretty quick in less than bis gear. :P

apologize for the slow editing..
but is just like what Suddenflame.2601 has said, is a group vs group scenario and not a roaming scenario…

in such a scenario, the players taking up the aoe dps role may have themselves equipped with full ascended gears but it will still be difficult to determine the significance of ascended gears in wvw

of course, if one belong to the top elite wvw team that require all participants to have full ascended gears, applied strength, applied fortitude, buffs, food and etc, i believe the combinations will have a significant impact in wvw

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Incorrect. The reward is completely necessary when going from Exotic to Ascended if you play wvw.

It is not necessary. A person in masterwork armour could pawn a person in exotic armour as it has been done many times before. You apparently do not play WvW enough. There is hardly any instance that your on par with someone else skill level. In WvW your more likely to be part of the zerg therefore your rank of armour will have very little effect on the whole. Also, WvW is competitive Server vs. server not person vs. person level.

Yet another person claiming that a clear gear advantage isn’t an advantage. Your game has a gear treadmill now, brah. And it will continue with legendary armor, lol

Legendary Armour has always been known to be coming. Also ascended is not that significant like seriously at this point of the game a large portion of the players have ascended weapons…. look what happened when those first came in did WvW suddenly break? nope it did not. Lots of people are getting Ascended armour did WvW break Nope so far it hasn’t. That’s because it truly doesn’t matter as the situation where it does matter are not that important to the whole. In a zerg fight your ascended armour is not going to hold up to 10 people hitting you at once. Your going to go down no matter what. Also that state buffs sure are a buff but not as great as Rare to Exotic but you still see people wearing Rares in WvW and winning against people in Exotics and Ascended. Skill > Gear

edit: this is going too far off topic though as the state of ascended in WvW does not effect the grind or RNG.

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Your looking for instant gratification which in the short-run is good but in the long run (in this case wouldn’t be that long) would cause more trouble than good. Look at this way getting sex with a random person is instant gratification. You get into a relationship with a GF for a Long term gratification though. Its something you work on and build towards and than maintain.

Who cares about economy. I wasn’t buying economic simulator. Rare items should be rare enough, but reachable without such amount of grind. And grind should be FUN and CHALLENGING, not brainless skill 1 click.

A large portion of the player base cares about the economy. Rare items wouldn’t be rare if they were guaranteed. There hasn’t been a challenging MMO to date thus far since all mechanics in MMOs are simplistic. Only challenge that appears in MMO is when it comes to PVP. If a rare is reachable with very little gold then it is not rare. For instance go out and try to buy a painting by Leonardo Da Vinci. Its going to cost a lot cause its rare. Go out and buy a pencil its cheap cause its not rare. Economics 101 do I have to go back to the basics with you?

Expect to pay a lot more for items that are harder to obtain. The economy is a market economy is based on how much gold there is in the economy and how easy the item is to obtain determines the price of the object. So an item that is rare is going to be worth more than an item that isn’t. So if you input a huge amount of money into the economy but don’t change the how easy it is to obtain an item the price of that item is going to increase (this is called inflation). If you keep the same amount of money in the economy but change the ease of acquirement of item than the price of that item will fall making it not rare any more.

There is your economics 101 if you need more information please don’t be afraid to ask because your asking to destroy the economy. Oh also when that occurs the reason why you wanted those items (for selling) would be gone as well.

Telling one more time if you didn’t get it: I don’t care about economy here. One of my masters is economy. I didn’t buy economy simulator. I don’t care if TP will be erased at all. Just give me no grind way to get BiS stat wise as was advertised in the beginning. Then create any rare crap as skins. Please read before answer.

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Your looking for instant gratification which in the short-run is good but in the long run (in this case wouldn’t be that long) would cause more trouble than good. Look at this way getting sex with a random person is instant gratification. You get into a relationship with a GF for a Long term gratification though. Its something you work on and build towards and than maintain.

Who cares about economy. I wasn’t buying economic simulator. Rare items should be rare enough, but reachable without such amount of grind. And grind should be FUN and CHALLENGING, not brainless skill 1 click.

A large portion of the player base cares about the economy. Rare items wouldn’t be rare if they were guaranteed. There hasn’t been a challenging MMO to date thus far since all mechanics in MMOs are simplistic. Only challenge that appears in MMO is when it comes to PVP. If a rare is reachable with very little gold then it is not rare. For instance go out and try to buy a painting by Leonardo Da Vinci. Its going to cost a lot cause its rare. Go out and buy a pencil its cheap cause its not rare. Economics 101 do I have to go back to the basics with you?

Expect to pay a lot more for items that are harder to obtain. The economy is a market economy is based on how much gold there is in the economy and how easy the item is to obtain determines the price of the object. So an item that is rare is going to be worth more than an item that isn’t. So if you input a huge amount of money into the economy but don’t change the how easy it is to obtain an item the price of that item is going to increase (this is called inflation). If you keep the same amount of money in the economy but change the ease of acquirement of item than the price of that item will fall making it not rare any more.

There is your economics 101 if you need more information please don’t be afraid to ask because your asking to destroy the economy. Oh also when that occurs the reason why you wanted those items (for selling) would be gone as well.

Telling one more time if you didn’t get it: I don’t care about economy here. One of my masters is economy. I didn’t buy economy simulator. I don’t care if TP will be erased at all. Just give me no grind way to get BiS stat wise as was advertised in the beginning. Then create any rare crap as skins. Please read before answer.

I did read as my first sentence was that the majority of the players do care. If you don’t want an economy go play a single player game or a Coop-game or go play Diablo 3 after March then. You will get everything you wanted without bringing down the community.

If you do not want to play a different game then adapt and stop complaining about Ascended cause its not going any where so adapt and overcome. Failure to adapt just makes you look unprofessional especially since you say you have a Major in Economics.

@Suddenflame.2601

Smart economy guy, comparing different genres. You didn’t answer about drop rates from genres you were comparing. “They are all RPGs”, so why do they have different drop rates ?

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

If they added say:
30% chance per dungeon boss to drop a random Account Bound exotic item.
Last bosses have a 25% chance to drop an Ascended AB item.

The game would be more fun. Here’s why:

-More shots at instant gratification.
- Livens up boss kills in dungeons.
- Gives more stuff to toss in the mystic toilet and doesn’t hurt the market on items as they won’t be sellable.
- Allows people to gear even for exotics without literally just having to spend gold on it all.
- Wouldn’t be TOO fast since the stats would be random and usually people want specific item types/stats.

Literally this would make me run dungeons a LOT more. They don’t have to make everything tradable just to let it drop and I think that’s one of the biggest issues we’re seeing and why stuff has such low drop rates…

You do realize what you suggest would totally destroy the economy? At 30% drop rate of exotics inflation in the economy would occur drastically as people would just salvage them constantly. Also at 30% drop rate people would just farm there rather than buy items off TP. There is a lot more factors to an economy than you realize.

Your looking for instant gratification which in the short-run is good but in the long run (in this case wouldn’t be that long) would cause more trouble than good. Look at this way getting sex with a random person is instant gratification. You get into a relationship with a GF for a Long term gratification though. Its something you work on and build towards and than maintain.

Who cares about economy. I wasn’t buying economic simulator. Rare items should be rare enough, but reachable without such amount of grind. And grind should be FUN and CHALLENGING, not brainless skill 1 click.

A large portion of the player base cares about the economy. Rare items wouldn’t be rare if they were guaranteed. There hasn’t been a challenging MMO to date thus far since all mechanics in MMOs are simplistic. Only challenge that appears in MMO is when it comes to PVP. If a rare is reachable with very little gold then it is not rare. For instance go out and try to buy a painting by Leonardo Da Vinci. Its going to cost a lot cause its rare. Go out and buy a pencil its cheap cause its not rare. Economics 101 do I have to go back to the basics with you?

Expect to pay a lot more for items that are harder to obtain. The economy is a market economy is based on how much gold there is in the economy and how easy the item is to obtain determines the price of the object. So an item that is rare is going to be worth more than an item that isn’t. So if you input a huge amount of money into the economy but don’t change the how easy it is to obtain an item the price of that item is going to increase (this is called inflation). If you keep the same amount of money in the economy but change the ease of acquirement of item than the price of that item will fall making it not rare any more.

There is your economics 101 if you need more information please don’t be afraid to ask because your asking to destroy the economy. Oh also when that occurs the reason why you wanted those items (for selling) would be gone as well.

Telling one more time if you didn’t get it: I don’t care about economy here. One of my masters is economy. I didn’t buy economy simulator. I don’t care if TP will be erased at all. Just give me no grind way to get BiS stat wise as was advertised in the beginning. Then create any rare crap as skins. Please read before answer.

I did read as my first sentence was that the majority of the players do care. If you don’t want an economy go play a single player game or a Coop-game or go play Diablo 3 after March then. You will get everything you wanted without bringing down the community.

Go play some train simulator. You will get enough economy there. I’m asking for what I was advertised. Don’t teach others what to do and you will not hear where to go.

WRay.2391:

@Suddenflame.2601

Smart economy guy, comparing different genres. You didn’t answer about drop rates from genres you were comparing. “They are all RPGs”, so why do they have different drop rates ?

Same genre as I explained above. MMORPGs can be reduced to RPGs. MRPGS share the same qualities as an MMORPG except for the persistent world aspect which by all grounds can easily be achieved by providing the MRPG a dedicated servers.

What is MMO RPG ? Is Diablo 3 MMO RPG ? It has online community, crappy RMAH they are finally getting rid of, party play. Or it’s an MMO APRG ? What’s the difference ? Why drop rates are different ? Why they are improving drop rates after removing RMAH ? How ppl will survive without RMAH ?

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

@Suddenflame.2601

Smart economy guy, comparing different genres. You didn’t answer about drop rates from genres you were comparing. “They are all RPGs”, so why do they have different drop rates ?

Same genre as I explained above. MMORPGs can be reduced to RPGs. MRPGS share the same qualities as an MMORPG except for the persistent world aspect which by all grounds can easily be achieved by providing the MRPG a dedicated servers.

Just look at the front page again at the “Thumbs up”. Not to sound kitteny, but it just goes to show where the general community stands.

WRay.2391:

Go play some train simulator. You will get enough economy there. I’m asking for what I was advertised. Don’t teach others what to do and you will not hear where to go.

For a person claiming to have an economics major, your lacking professional integrity and business sense. Also, you probably didn’t read the terms and conditions when you bought this game (or before you bought this game) which states that it is subject to changes. As a business person you should have known this clause. Also, your complaining about grind which you haven’t stated which part of grinding.

In the advertisements it did not state that you did not need to grind for BiS gear or cosmetics. If you really did your research you would have known that they stated there should be a grind for cosmetics they never mentioned about BiS gear expect that Legendary should be a long term goal. It stated that you did not need to grind for levels. It did state however there wouldn’t be a gear treadmill, and there isn’t one. They added ascended, but they are not adding more also with Legendary being BiS permanently there is no gear treadmill as well.

So far they have kept with their advertisements. What is the problem other than you interpreting the meaning wrong?

Here’s how I see it.

The RNG is a necessity of the MMORPG, and it is even more a necessity in Guild Wars 2.

If they had come out with a game that says “Go and do [insert task here] for a guaranteed [insert reward here],” then some players would either complain that they have gotten everything they needed too quickly and there is nothing left to do, or some players would say that they don’t want to get their reward in that manner and they want to play their way.

The RNG is what allows us to play our way and still get rewarded. It is a necessary evil.

I don’t find the RNG a grind, since it allows me the chance at the reward I want by playing the way I want to play.

TChalla.7146:

Here’s how I see it.

The RNG is a necessity of the MMORPG, and it is even more a necessity in Guild Wars 2.

If they had come out with a game that says “Go and do [insert task here] for a guaranteed [insert reward here],” then some players would either complain that they have gotten everything they needed too quickly and there is nothing left to do, or some players would say that they don’t want to get their reward in that manner and they want to play their way.

The RNG is what allows us to play our way and still get rewarded. It is a necessary evil.

I don’t find the RNG a grind, since it allows me the chance at the reward I want by playing the way I want to play.

Its not about the grind. Its how long each grind is. They could have added smaller grinds and added more armor sets (with actual stats) in permanent content instead of some wings in content every 2 weeks. I’m sure people would be much happier with 5-10% drop rates on final bosses and new perma-instances every 6-8 weeks instead of some meh stuff every 2-4 weeks. I mean… I can almost bet money on it… I think they don’t add as much ingame armor because the more they do that, the less likely people are going to be to buy gem armors, hurting sales.

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Go play some train simulator. You will get enough economy there. I’m asking for what I was advertised. Don’t teach others what to do and you will not hear where to go.

For a person claiming to have an economics major, your lacking professional integrity and business sense. Also, you probably didn’t read the terms and conditions when you bought this game (or before you bought this game) which states that it is subject to changes. As a business person you should have known this clause. Also, your complaining about grind which you haven’t stated which part of grinding.

In the advertisements it did not state that you did not need to grind for BiS gear or cosmetics. If you really did your research you would have known that they stated there should be a grind for cosmetics they never mentioned about BiS gear expect that Legendary should be a long term goal. It stated that you did not need to grind for levels. It did state however there wouldn’t be a gear treadmill, and there isn’t one. They added ascended, but they are not adding more also with Legendary being BiS permanently there is no gear treadmill as well.

So far they have kept with their advertisements. What is the problem other than you interpreting the meaning wrong?

I was telling BiS stat wise. Read plz. It was exotics, not legendary.
Economy was one of my masters, I’m not a business person, I’m software developer. Initially was developing banking software. I don’t think you are able to measure integrity anyway. Professional. In the MMO.
I know it’s a subject to change and it’s ok. I’m not logging in anymore. I got enough fun for money spent. Just sad they are ruining such a great game instead of improving.
Also I don’t like somebody is trying to teach me something without any context and knowledge.

WRay.2391:

What is MMO RPG ? Is Diablo 3 MMO RPG ? It has online community, crappy RMAH they are finally getting rid of, party play. Or it’s an MMO APRG ? What’s the difference ? Why drop rates are different ? Why they are improving drop rates after removing RMAH ? How ppl will survive without RMAH ?

Diablo 3 is not an MMORPG. Its more of an MRPG. If you look up MMO it qualifies by having a persistent world meaning by logging off and back on it still remains (I am amazed I have define an entire genre). Diablo 3 the world is not persistent therefore it is not an MMO. Drop rates vary game to game on design decisions. Diablo 3 economy very early was infected with hyper inflation which destroyed the economy which then lead to changes in drop rates to try to fix (took them over 10 updates) that issue.

The RMAH was what the game was balanced around and was leading to many issues. People will survive playing that game by using the old methods of dropping armour on the ground more than likely when trading.

To make a game from an RPG to MMORPG you need to make it persistent and allowing players to interact (aka: chat, party, guilds, etc.). These functions do not change gameplay unless the designer wants them to. There can exist an MMORPG without a method of trading, but I bet people would be kittened off about that. As soon as you allow trading an economy will be created as evidence GW1.

GW1 had a limited trading system (stronger than GW2 person to person trading), and it created an economy that didn’t exist before. Items had prices and were subject to inflation and deflation (black dye & white dye).

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.¹ Many games have at least one persistent world, however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

From Wikipedia

So is D3 is an MMO ?

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Go play some train simulator. You will get enough economy there. I’m asking for what I was advertised. Don’t teach others what to do and you will not hear where to go.

For a person claiming to have an economics major, your lacking professional integrity and business sense. Also, you probably didn’t read the terms and conditions when you bought this game (or before you bought this game) which states that it is subject to changes. As a business person you should have known this clause. Also, your complaining about grind which you haven’t stated which part of grinding.

In the advertisements it did not state that you did not need to grind for BiS gear or cosmetics. If you really did your research you would have known that they stated there should be a grind for cosmetics they never mentioned about BiS gear expect that Legendary should be a long term goal. It stated that you did not need to grind for levels. It did state however there wouldn’t be a gear treadmill, and there isn’t one. They added ascended, but they are not adding more also with Legendary being BiS permanently there is no gear treadmill as well.

So far they have kept with their advertisements. What is the problem other than you interpreting the meaning wrong?

I was telling BiS stat wise. Read plz. It was exotics, not legendary.
Economy was one of my masters, I’m not a business person, I’m software developer. Initially was developing banking software. I don’t think you are able to measure integrity anyway. Professional. In the MMO.
I know it’s a subject to change and it’s ok. I’m not logging in anymore. I got enough fun for money spent. Just sad they are ruining such a great game instead of improving.
Also I don’t like somebody is trying to teach me something without any context and knowledge.

You know nothing of my background. So your not logging any more but you come to troll the forums still that shows more of your unwanted character development. Legendary is BiS even before Ascended, Legendary is BiS which was tied with Exotics back than but now they are tied with Ascended so they are still BiS.

WRay.2391:

A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously. By necessity, they are played on the Internet.¹ Many games have at least one persistent world, however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all. These games can be found for most network-capable platforms, including the personal computer, video game console, or smartphones and other mobile devices.

From Wikipedia

Pretty much as I stated as its online and persistent.

WRay.2391:

So is D3 is an MMO ?

Earlier post i said No as it is not persistent world.

TChalla.7146:

Here’s how I see it.

The RNG is a necessity of the MMORPG, and it is even more a necessity in Guild Wars 2.

If they had come out with a game that says “Go and do [insert task here] for a guaranteed [insert reward here],” then some players would either complain that they have gotten everything they needed too quickly and there is nothing left to do, or some players would say that they don’t want to get their reward in that manner and they want to play their way.

The RNG is what allows us to play our way and still get rewarded. It is a necessary evil.

I don’t find the RNG a grind, since it allows me the chance at the reward I want by playing the way I want to play.

Agreed. Without RNG there would be no real point in this game or any MMORPG for that instance. All MMORPGs that I know of use RNG in one form or another to control loot to prevent rare items from being common.

Again. I was telling about BiS stat wise. Read initial post. Even Legendary is BiS in general I wasn’t talking about it. I noted “stat wise”.
I’m not telling you to learn economy or any other things. I’m not measuring your professional integrity here. Okay ? That’s why I was trying to not touch your background. Just don’t teach others.
I’m waiting for the results of CDI thread. That’s why I’m on the forums. And I have right for it. Hope you will not tell me to learn law now.

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

So is D3 is an MMO ?

Earlier post i said No as it is not persistent world.

however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all.

ronpierce.2760:

TChalla.7146:

Here’s how I see it.

The RNG is a necessity of the MMORPG, and it is even more a necessity in Guild Wars 2.

If they had come out with a game that says “Go and do [insert task here] for a guaranteed [insert reward here],” then some players would either complain that they have gotten everything they needed too quickly and there is nothing left to do, or some players would say that they don’t want to get their reward in that manner and they want to play their way.

The RNG is what allows us to play our way and still get rewarded. It is a necessary evil.

I don’t find the RNG a grind, since it allows me the chance at the reward I want by playing the way I want to play.

Its not about the grind. Its how long each grind is. They could have added smaller grinds and added more armor sets (with actual stats) in permanent content instead of some wings in content every 2 weeks. I’m sure people would be much happier with 5-10% drop rates on final bosses and new perma-instances every 6-8 weeks instead of some meh stuff every 2-4 weeks. I mean… I can almost bet money on it… I think they don’t add as much ingame armor because the more they do that, the less likely people are going to be to buy gem armors, hurting sales.

So basically based on this you ware wanting everyone to walk around at this moment of time with a legendary weapon by increasing the odds of precursors by a huge amount. Precursors are rare for they are needed to make legendaries and if they were common there would be more people with the legendaries at this point of time. Whats the point of having a legendary if everyone else has the same?

I do agree however they do need more armour sets, weapon sets, and stat combinations. Their current setup requires more combinations and update in this regard. Saddly it is also the hardest as all sets of armour have to look good on all races (which Charr make difficult to make for).

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

TChalla.7146:

Here’s how I see it.

The RNG is a necessity of the MMORPG, and it is even more a necessity in Guild Wars 2.

If they had come out with a game that says “Go and do [insert task here] for a guaranteed [insert reward here],” then some players would either complain that they have gotten everything they needed too quickly and there is nothing left to do, or some players would say that they don’t want to get their reward in that manner and they want to play their way.

The RNG is what allows us to play our way and still get rewarded. It is a necessary evil.

I don’t find the RNG a grind, since it allows me the chance at the reward I want by playing the way I want to play.

Its not about the grind. Its how long each grind is. They could have added smaller grinds and added more armor sets (with actual stats) in permanent content instead of some wings in content every 2 weeks. I’m sure people would be much happier with 5-10% drop rates on final bosses and new perma-instances every 6-8 weeks instead of some meh stuff every 2-4 weeks. I mean… I can almost bet money on it… I think they don’t add as much ingame armor because the more they do that, the less likely people are going to be to buy gem armors, hurting sales.

So basically based on this you ware wanting everyone to walk around at this moment of time with a legendary weapon by increasing the odds of precursors by a huge amount. Precursors are rare for they are needed to make legendaries and if they were common there would be more people with the legendaries at this point of time. Whats the point of having a legendary if everyone else has the same?

I do agree however they do need more armour sets, weapon sets, and stat combinations. Their current setup requires more combinations and update in this regard. Saddly it is also the hardest as all sets of armour have to look good on all races (which Charr make difficult to make for).

Um… After 1.5 years hell yeah I think everyone should have a kitten legendary. They should have new ones to obtain by now via different methods continuing the game, not keeping everyone on the same carrot-on-a-stick chase for 2-3 years… Are you kidding me…? 1.5 years is DEFINITELY long enough to get BIS gear for any game… they need to add NEW stuff…

WRay.2391:

Again. I was telling about BiS stat wise. Read initial post. Even Legendary is BiS in general I wasn’t talking about it. I noted “stat wise”.
I’m not telling you to learn economy or any other things. I’m not measuring your professional integrity here. Okay ? That’s why I was trying to not touch your background. Just don’t teach others.
I’m waiting for the results of CDI thread. That’s why I’m on the forums. And I have right for it. Hope you will not tell me to learn law now.

Law is also good to learn. But as I stated they haven’t diverted from what they advertised as you suggest cause they never said anything about BiS gear changing (as they also believed back in Nov. 2012 that they could raise the level cap as well not sure if they think that now though).

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

So is D3 is an MMO ?

Earlier post i said No as it is not persistent world.

however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all.

Which D3 doesn’t have either. It only allows 5 people per game (guessing more in PvP not sure havn’t tried that part)

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Incorrect. The reward is completely necessary when going from Exotic to Ascended if you play wvw.

It is not necessary. A person in masterwork armour could pawn a person in exotic armour as it has been done many times before. You apparently do not play WvW enough. There is hardly any instance that your on par with someone else skill level. In WvW your more likely to be part of the zerg therefore your rank of armour will have very little effect on the whole. Also, WvW is competitive Server vs. server not person vs. person level.

I hate this argument. It’s terrible. Basically, someone asserts that all things being equal ascended gear gives an advantage in WvW and you state that all things are never equal.

In reality, you can’t argue that doing damage is important in WvW and that doing more damage is better than doing less damage. Having more toughness is better than having less toughness. Etc…

Of course, Ascended gear isn’t the only factor in individual success in WvW. Skill and numbers play a role. But it’s disingenuous (and frankly undermines credibility) to claim its not a factor.

TooBz.3065:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Incorrect. The reward is completely necessary when going from Exotic to Ascended if you play wvw.

It is not necessary. A person in masterwork armour could pawn a person in exotic armour as it has been done many times before. You apparently do not play WvW enough. There is hardly any instance that your on par with someone else skill level. In WvW your more likely to be part of the zerg therefore your rank of armour will have very little effect on the whole. Also, WvW is competitive Server vs. server not person vs. person level.

I hate this argument. It’s terrible. Basically, someone asserts that all things being equal ascended gear gives an advantage in WvW and you state that all things are never equal.

In reality, you can’t argue that doing damage is important in WvW and that doing more damage is better than doing less damage. Having more toughness is better than having less toughness. Etc…

Of course, Ascended gear isn’t the only factor in individual success in WvW. Skill and numbers play a role. But it’s disingenuous (and frankly undermines credibility) to claim its not a factor.

Sure its an increase I am not denying its an increase but I am stating that its overall effect is minor enough that skill plays are larger role in this game. The only place it would have mattered doesn’t even use the same armour which is PvP. In WvW the goal is camps, towers, keeps, and the castle which are usually taken in groups. In a group teamwork and individual skill matter far more than what each person is wearing. If an entire group has full ascended great but they could get stomped on by a group with better teamwork.

Edit: If everything is equal (which in this game is near impossible) then yes the person has an advantage. At this point in the game there is enough people using ascended weapons, legendary weapons, and ascended armour to know that their overall effect is minor at best. I stopped counting how many warriors I have killed with Twilight with my pure exotics Ranger just because the difference in skill.

Suddenflame.2601:

World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.

Been talking a lot about this in the micro-transactions thread and let me tell you this.

If I want to collect mini’s in GW2 there are 3 main ways.

1 Grinding achievements against the clock because they will be removed within a few weeks.

2 Grinding gold to buy the mini’s from the TP.

3 Buying items or gold (to buy the items) with cash.

If I was to do the same thing in WoW I would do a quest for one mini or create another mini with a craft or do a dungeon (sometimes completing sometimes farming a dungeon) for another mini, or farming a specific type of mobs for yet another mini.
Oow and if you want to grind gold to then buy it from the TP that is in many cases still an option but not required.

I am very sorry to say but if it’s this sort of game-play you like GW2 is the most grindy game out there and no, your WoW example does not require the same amount of grind. It might require some farming but at least you can then farm for one specific item and every item does then require another farm. But here it is almost all gold grind, gold grind, gold grind ,and achievement grinds.

I also have the feeling you are mixing up farming and grinding but to be fair the definition is a little vague.

Main thing to blame. The focus on the micro/transactions because this way they make buying gems to convert to gold much more interesting.

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Again. I was telling about BiS stat wise. Read initial post. Even Legendary is BiS in general I wasn’t talking about it. I noted “stat wise”.
I’m not telling you to learn economy or any other things. I’m not measuring your professional integrity here. Okay ? That’s why I was trying to not touch your background. Just don’t teach others.
I’m waiting for the results of CDI thread. That’s why I’m on the forums. And I have right for it. Hope you will not tell me to learn law now.

Law is also good to learn. But as I stated they haven’t diverted from what they advertised as you suggest cause they never said anything about BiS gear changing (as they also believed back in Nov. 2012 that they could raise the level cap as well not sure if they think that now though).

There are lot of topics about this and I have my own opinion with the other part of community. Have a nice day.
Sorry for offtopic everybody else.

Other games have no bearing on whether or not this one is or is not something. Saying it is not grindy compared to a highly grindy game is fine but that has no relevance to whether or not it is grindy of itself. The comparison is simply that a comparison not a true measure. It falls into the lines of inconsistent comparison.

ex) Michael Jordan (6’6")was not that tall compared to Manute Bol (7’7"), therefor MJ is not tall.

We full well know that both are tall (well above avg 5’9"), so the comparison is not a true measure of height, just a comparison.