Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and Grind in GW2 is not that bad
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
You need to grind out ascended (legendary armor soon!) if you want to be on a level playing field. That’s just a fact and no amount of pretending that statistical advantages don’t exist, will change that.
This slow process IS the grind. Taking it slow and doing various content doesn’t make it not a grind. Say in a game you had to complete 200 totally unique areas for the best stuff in the game, again in a game with competitive secondary objectives such as wvw and fractals, this would be a grind. They are gating you from being competitive by making you do a long (very long) process OF ANY SORT. That is a grind to have the best armor to be competitive in.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
That’s incorrect. Getting ascended armor IS a grind. Just because you chose to not partake in it or care enough to shoot for it until it falls upon you doesn’t make it not a grind. For example you could play a Korean MMO that requires you to kill mobs for 3 years to go from level 1 to max level. You don’t care if you ever hit max, so you just play every once in a while and kill stuff. It’s still a grind, you just don’t so much CARE about reaching the goal. A grind is a grind, whether you are hardcore about it or not.
Like I said earlier my goal is to have full ascended on all 10 of my characters. I have a goal. Where your incorrect is the grind aspect. I do many different things and hardly ever repeat content. At this moment of time I can afford to make 1 set of full ascended armour for my warrior. I choose not to at this time cause I want to gain most of the materials myself without relying on the TP and not farming for them.
Hell the only thing I grind is map completion on my characters but that is wide grind as it encompasses the entire game.
I thought my goal of 40 map completion on 40 character is ridiculous.
But after seeing how high standard you set for yourself(acquiring 250,000 silk without using the TP). It makes me believe my goal is possible. Your my idol!
edit actually i think it is only 75000 silk but that goal is still far more ridiculous than mine.
(edited by laokoko.7403)
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
This is my second big problem with RNG in GW2, it’s usually more efficient to do your favorite / fast activity to get the gold you need to buy something, than actually farming for the items themselves. With the rare exception of some T6 mats, but in some cases not even those.
It was a great thing that they added gold rewards in dungeons/fractals and the champion change, now add some more fine materials in other areas of the game so pure RNG and buying on the TP isn’t the only option, and we’ll see another improvement.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
That’s incorrect. Getting ascended armor IS a grind. Just because you chose to not partake in it or care enough to shoot for it until it falls upon you doesn’t make it not a grind. For example you could play a Korean MMO that requires you to kill mobs for 3 years to go from level 1 to max level. You don’t care if you ever hit max, so you just play every once in a while and kill stuff. It’s still a grind, you just don’t so much CARE about reaching the goal. A grind is a grind, whether you are hardcore about it or not.
Like I said earlier my goal is to have full ascended on all 10 of my characters. I have a goal. Where your incorrect is the grind aspect. I do many different things and hardly ever repeat content. At this moment of time I can afford to make 1 set of full ascended armour for my warrior. I choose not to at this time cause I want to gain most of the materials myself without relying on the TP and not farming for them.
Hell the only thing I grind is map completion on my characters but that is wide grind as it encompasses the entire game.
I thought my goal of 40 map completion on 40 character is ridiculous.
But after seeing how high standard you set for yourself(acquiring 250,000 silk without using the TP). It makes me believe my goal is possible. Your my idol!
Yeah, exactly. These numbers are ridiculous. And that’s just one of the materials needed overall..
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
You need to grind out ascended (legendary armor soon!) if you want to be on a level playing field. That’s just a fact and no amount of pretending that statistical advantages don’t exist, will change that.
Statistical advantage exists but level playing field where exactly? PVE? no point being there as it is not competitive. WvW? Not meant to be balanced, and skill still matters more. I seen people with ascended armour and weapons, but they still get pawned. I will focus on gaining skill rather than getting a statistical advantage which in the terms of skill is not as useful. A skilled player will defeat an unskilled one even if at a statistical disadvantage.
Also, who the hell are you competing with? In WvW your not likely working alone and nor is the enemy.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
That’s incorrect. Getting ascended armor IS a grind. Just because you chose to not partake in it or care enough to shoot for it until it falls upon you doesn’t make it not a grind. For example you could play a Korean MMO that requires you to kill mobs for 3 years to go from level 1 to max level. You don’t care if you ever hit max, so you just play every once in a while and kill stuff. It’s still a grind, you just don’t so much CARE about reaching the goal. A grind is a grind, whether you are hardcore about it or not.
Like I said earlier my goal is to have full ascended on all 10 of my characters. I have a goal. Where your incorrect is the grind aspect. I do many different things and hardly ever repeat content. At this moment of time I can afford to make 1 set of full ascended armour for my warrior. I choose not to at this time cause I want to gain most of the materials myself without relying on the TP and not farming for them.
Hell the only thing I grind is map completion on my characters but that is wide grind as it encompasses the entire game.
I thought my goal of 40 map completion on 40 character is ridiculous.
But after seeing how high standard you set for yourself(acquiring 250,000 silk without using the TP). It makes me believe my goal is possible. Your my idol!
Yeah, exactly. These numbers are ridiculous. And that’s just one of the materials needed overall..
I said most did not say all. Plus I have a large stock pile of silk. I been stock piling silk for over a year. So 1 year of silk is already in my possession (can’t say how much atm cause i am not at home). There is also other materials needed.
Silk also has the highest salvage rate other than leather in the game. Which means you can get a ton of it from salvaging drops (which FOTM gives a lot of).
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
All depends on the skill of each team. If the team of 20 is better at teamwork it doesn’t matter how much armour you have they will kill you. In your case its 5 v 20. If they have equal skill the 20 will still win (statistically speaking even). 20 people could burst down each member 1 by 1 within 5seconds or less. Or able to stun lock them all and AOE them to death in seconds. Your example is horrible for your point.
Also, why are you so concerned about being competitive in WvW when it isn’t necessary? Just makes it funnier when my lvl30 mesmer murders a lvl80 with full ascended (could tell by the unique skin).
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.
A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
You need to grind out ascended (legendary armor soon!) if you want to be on a level playing field. That’s just a fact and no amount of pretending that statistical advantages don’t exist, will change that.
Statistical advantage exists but level playing field where exactly? PVE? no point being there as it is not competitive. WvW? Not meant to be balanced, and skill still matters more. I seen people with ascended armour and weapons, but they still get pawned. I will focus on gaining skill rather than getting a statistical advantage which in the terms of skill is not as useful. A skilled player will defeat an unskilled one even if at a statistical disadvantage.
Also, who the hell are you competing with? In WvW your not likely working alone and nor is the enemy.
And when you come across people at your skill level but with better gear? Of course no one is claiming that ascended will allow you to kill other players if your skill level is horrible. But you know what? If you’re average it sure as hell helps.
Stop thinking it as ‘grinding’. find a way to make gold that u have fun with. for instance I run dungeons (only the ones I like though) for an easy 15-20g/day and am satisfied with that. haven’t jumped on a single train and dont ever plan on it.
But that is not fun for me. I have no fun doing something to get money. I have fun going for a item. That is what I consider fun. And because every item then requires another route I get to do different things all the time. Fun again.
But GW2 simply required a gold-grind. You can’t really go for an item. And if you ,after a patch, are able to farm some mats it gets patched out in a few hours. They don’t want you to farm items or mats because they want you to buy items or gold. When you are having fun playing the game to get to your goal (those items) you are not buying it so they make sure you can’t do that. Sadly there are then enough people foolish enough that they will indeed buy it.
What now happens is that many people dislike to have to grind gold for items so they search for the easiest way. What was CoF P1 and now it are the champ trains. And it keeps them busy but are they having fun? Enough of them are doing it just because they have set the goal of getting that legendary or because they are in the game to talk with there guild-members or simply because they don’t have an alternative game (yet).
But many haven’t fun doing it and thats why you also see so many negative reactions on the forum.
An exploit is an exploit. Anet has added many ways to farm for awhile now and even added locations to farm at during certain LS. Anet does not want people just to play in a single area for all the money, but rather you spread out across the entire world (they still failing at that, but they are working on it).
Anet is not forcing people to play as they do. The goal the developers are wanting the players to do is to have fun. The players on the other hand are forcing their own unfun grind.
Let me ask you this what do the majority of the people do after they get their legendary? Since that was their only goal, and now they have achieved it what do they do?
That where no exploit (some might, but the majority wasn’t). Something simply dropped enough to be farmable in stead of the rare world drop loots they usually have meaning you cant farm them but just need to grind gold to buy them.
“Anet does not want people just to play in a single area for all the money,” I am talking about farming. Not about grinding for gold. And Anet very much want this gold-focus because you can buy gold with gems. Thats the whole problem. If people can farm the mats they have less reason to buy gems to convert to gold or buy the items them-self from the gem-store.
Besides if there are items to farm they are in many different places (at one place you can farm this mats and in another place you can farm another mat) so there would be a reason to go to many differed places, not to go to one place, that what they are doing now.
“The goal the developers are wanting the players to do is to have fun. The players on the other hand are forcing their own unfun grind. "
Sorry but what a nonsense.
The players are forced into a gold-grind. How do you get most of the mini’s? By grinding gold. They are in the TP (coming from the cash-shop).
I want to have fun, go into the world on a hunt for mini’s, or collect dye colors (if it was account-bound) or go on the hunt for a specific skin. But Anet makes the game so that if I want to go for mini’s (what I don’t want anymore because of this) your only option is to grind gold. I don’t want to do that Anet forces me to do that if I want that mini or a specific dye or a legendary or a skin.
I have no idea what your question about the legendary is about.. But you are right for many thats the only goal why simply because everything is a gold-grind so once you grinded you legendary you don’t feel like also grinding for a dye collection or a mini collection or… well you get the point.
And what they do. Some go for a second legendary, some do some WvW and some leave.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
That’s incorrect. Getting ascended armor IS a grind. Just because you chose to not partake in it or care enough to shoot for it until it falls upon you doesn’t make it not a grind. For example you could play a Korean MMO that requires you to kill mobs for 3 years to go from level 1 to max level. You don’t care if you ever hit max, so you just play every once in a while and kill stuff. It’s still a grind, you just don’t so much CARE about reaching the goal. A grind is a grind, whether you are hardcore about it or not.
Like I said earlier my goal is to have full ascended on all 10 of my characters. I have a goal. Where your incorrect is the grind aspect. I do many different things and hardly ever repeat content. At this moment of time I can afford to make 1 set of full ascended armour for my warrior. I choose not to at this time cause I want to gain most of the materials myself without relying on the TP and not farming for them.
Hell the only thing I grind is map completion on my characters but that is wide grind as it encompasses the entire game.
I thought my goal of 40 map completion on 40 character is ridiculous.
But after seeing how high standard you set for yourself(acquiring 250,000 silk without using the TP). It makes me believe my goal is possible. Your my idol!
Yeah, exactly. These numbers are ridiculous. And that’s just one of the materials needed overall..
I said most did not say all. Plus I have a large stock pile of silk. I been stock piling silk for over a year. So 1 year of silk is already in my possession (can’t say how much atm cause i am not at home). There is also other materials needed.
Silk also has the highest salvage rate other than leather in the game. Which means you can get a ton of it from salvaging drops (which FOTM gives a lot of).
In all fairness, I’m just saying there is a TP for a reason.
I’m just making a joke. Not really involve in this grind rng argument.
Ok yes that can happen, but that isn’t the point. The people in lower gear but better skill would have to most undoubtedly play well to beat those odds, if they are to win at all. The statistical advantage of a small team in full ascended versus a large team of less than ascended is huge. They’d likely have to out forth very minimal effort in breaking waves of players down.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear.
You know that the total of your stats from a complete set of ascended armor doesn’t even get better for 1% ?
Now using traveller runes instead of 6 all-stat runes, or maybe ruby-orbs can in that case already kitten your damage for more than what ascended armor gives you.
EVERY MMO is awesome until it is released then its unfinished. A month after release it just sucks.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
Best MMOs are the ones that never make it. Therefore Stargate Online wins.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
I agree only the last element I disagree on. Upping the drops would maybe be bad for the economy but it would not solve the problem.
To solve the problem you have to put the items and mats into the game at specific places. Now items are not in the game (many skins and mini’s are just gem-store) and many mots are to much world-loot drop. So you can’t farm for the items of mats you want but you just grind for gold and getting items you do not want (but other people do) and other people get the items you want. So then you earn gold and buy the items you want.
But indeed that does not feels rewarding, it feels boring.
Gold it then only important for some vendor items. But Anet is trying to make money on the cash-shop so they can’t change that until they make money in another way. Like on expansions in stead of on a cash-shop.
But just upping the drops would not help. They should simply put it in specific paces in the game. You can farm those mats at that location from those mobs, you can get that color (dye) from that bos (100%) and another color (10%). That mini will drom from that quest (as far as there are quest) and so on.
Then you can farm the items you like in a fun way.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
You need to grind out ascended (legendary armor soon!) if you want to be on a level playing field. That’s just a fact and no amount of pretending that statistical advantages don’t exist, will change that.
Statistical advantage exists but level playing field where exactly? PVE? no point being there as it is not competitive. WvW? Not meant to be balanced, and skill still matters more. I seen people with ascended armour and weapons, but they still get pawned. I will focus on gaining skill rather than getting a statistical advantage which in the terms of skill is not as useful. A skilled player will defeat an unskilled one even if at a statistical disadvantage.
Also, who the hell are you competing with? In WvW your not likely working alone and nor is the enemy.
And when you come across people at your skill level but with better gear? Of course no one is claiming that ascended will allow you to kill other players if your skill level is horrible. But you know what? If you’re average it sure as hell helps.
it may help but if your out skilled your just out skilled. Also as people have stated before, skill is not easily measured. In theory it can be this way but in the game it will be impossible to meet a person with the same skill especially in the cluster of WvW. Match making systems even have a hard time matching peoples skills as it is not easy to measure.
In theory, Ascended gives a significant advantage. In practicality it doesn’t matter as much as one would hope for. 10% increase in hp is not enough to stop an attack that is dealing 300 damage (since 10% of most hp is less than 100). A person with better skill well make you miss that 10% increased damage more often than you will be hitting his nonbuffed damage.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
So if I want the Jack-a-lop mini. How do I get it in the game? Because thats what I like to do. Go on a hunt for that mini. That is what I think is fun. So please tell me how do I do that without a need to grind gold? Please enlighten me.
(edited by Devata.6589)
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
I feel like the few of you defending the grind know you’re wrong. You’ve stopped arguing over how bad the grind is and now you’re just saying it’s not needed to do “okay”… That’s not the point and having to deal with year i differences does negatively effect the competitive goal Anet set. So… There’s that.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
I feel like the few of you defending the grind know you’re wrong. You’ve stopped arguing over how bad the grind is and now you’re just saying it’s not needed to do “okay”… That’s not the point and having to deal with year i differences does negatively effect the competitive goal Anet set. So… There’s that.
I think that in a way they like the long slog of a grind that GW2 set before them. I was pretty happy when exotics were the highest gear tier because I could gear myself in a day and in multiple sets and I had enough to do to keep me occupied. ANet wouldn’t have lost me as a player if they stuck to that model.
RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.
I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.
I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.
If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
So if I want the Jack-a-lop mini. How do I get in in the game? Because thats what I like to do. Go on a hunt for that mini. That is what I think is fun. So please tell me how do I do that without a need to grind gold? Please enlighten me.
Since the mini can only be found the TP you need gold. Which means you do need to grind for it. This has been known from the start of the game (even in beta we knew as they told us even then) that certain cosmetic items will needed to be grinded to gain them. Minis are one of those items. I can not deny that they are a grind to get as that would be against what Anet said. I am talking more on the weapons and armour tiers. Cosmetic versions of each (such as Teq) will need to be grinded to get his weapons.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
This slow process IS the grind. Taking it slow and doing various content doesn’t make it not a grind. Say in a game you had to complete 200 totally unique areas for the best stuff in the game, again in a game with competitive secondary objectives such as wvw and fractals, this would be a grind. They are gating you from being competitive by making you do a long (very long) process OF ANY SORT. That is a grind to have the best armor to be competitive in.
Except that this game doesn’t require any player to have BiS gear to be “competitive”, as you put it. It is an inner, personal drive you have to possess BiS, but nothing ever required to have fun and access most areas of the game (barring high level fractals, which exists to satisfy those who enjoy grinding in the first place.)
I am sure many players in an “uneven playing field” with just rares would be able to defeat equally skilled players with BiS gear on WvW. Too many Professions, playstyles, builds, rock/paper/scissors situations will make any such “unevenness” a moot point.
In general, people just love to have BiS, that’s all-it’s certainly not needed to be competitive, much less to enjoy all the game has to offer.
(I never liked the Ascended gear design choice, BTW.)
And it amuses me how people think we must all think alike-humans are not competitive, individuals are. Some humans hate competitiveness, and don’t care about “having an edge”, etc. None are superior to the other, but it’s worth to be mentioned.
The “slow process” is a choice. If you want it NOW, you’ll pay/grind for it (a self-imposed grind). If you just play, you can still get most stuff eventually.
I agree that the Precursor situation should have been handled way better than just being acquired through luck, however (I don’t think being able to craft them is a clean solution either, no offense to ANet-I am not planning to craft even Ascended weapons/armor because I deem it a grinder’s job, and if it will happen it will take years considering my playstyle.)
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Which still makes me wonder why you thought you were the right person to discuss the fairness/design of loot distribution in the first place… >_>:
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I feel like the few of you defending the grind know you’re wrong. You’ve stopped arguing over how bad the grind is and now you’re just saying it’s not needed to do “okay”… That’s not the point and having to deal with year i differences does negatively effect the competitive goal Anet set. So… There’s that.
You personally set the competitive goal. Its only competitive if you view it as such. We are defending the grind as we know about a thing called long term goals which seems to fly over your head each time we have said it.
Legendaries are long term goals
Ascended are mid term goals
Exotic is short term goals
Ascended was introduced to bridge the gap between long term and short term. Your kind missing the entire point of each of the goals and thinking that everything must be short term.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
All this game IS is kittening economics. There’s no real game to it because nothing is really obtainable without sinking tons of time and money into it. And that’s… pretty much it.
This comment wins the thread, because it is right.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Which still makes me wonder why you thought you were the right person to discuss the fairness/design of loot distribution in the first place… >_>:
Actually I am better at it cause I can look at it objectively rather then the subjective view point which is shared among carrot followers. I can sit back and look at how the loot system works, why its designed as it is, and the changes over time to cater to loot minded people. I take a less biased approach to the situation of the fairness and design of the loot as it has little to effect me.
If you want a biased opinion go look at the numerous forums which all complain without even looking at why the system is designed that way. I will admit to flaws in the system and not saying its perfect. What I am saying though is that it is not as bad as people are making it out to be.
The game is designed and advertised a certain way, but the loot minded players are forcing the developers to change the original design. The game was developed so that legendaries would take awhile to make but when people started focusing only on legendaries and none of the other content in the game that’s where the problems started developing.
If you want I can break down what occurred and possible reasons why things where developed as such including ascended.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Well, at least it’s something “to do”, right?
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Well, at least it’s something “to do”, right?
It is something to do but that’s not my reason for doing it.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Which still makes me wonder why you thought you were the right person to discuss the fairness/design of loot distribution in the first place… >_>:
Actually I am better at it cause I can look at it objectively rather then the subjective view point which is shared among carrot followers. I can sit back and look at how the loot system works, why its designed as it is, and the changes over time to cater to loot minded people. I take a less biased approach to the situation of the fairness and design of the loot as it has little to effect me.
If you want a biased opinion go look at the numerous forums which all complain without even looking at why the system is designed that way. I will admit to flaws in the system and not saying its perfect. What I am saying though is that it is not as bad as people are making it out to be.
The game is designed and advertised a certain way, but the loot minded players are forcing the developers to change the original design. The game was developed so that legendaries would take awhile to make but when people started focusing only on legendaries and none of the other content in the game that’s where the problems started developing.
If you want I can break down what occurred and possible reasons why things where developed as such including ascended.
As has been explained, it’s designed they way it is in order to “encourage” you to use the cash shop. Hmmm, do I want to covert gems to gold and buy silk or do I want to farm 250,000 of it? Such a tough choice!
(edited by Dark Catalyst.1028)
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I know it was aimed to the OP, but I do sell the mats for gold, and sometimes craft the sellable ascended ingredients just for the money. I have no reason or drive to get anything Ascended in this game (though the current trinkets are comparatively “easier” to acquire, so I do have quite a few by now)-my own, practical (big key word) BiS are Exotics, and I can’t foresee that ever changing.
Also, some people do like the look of certain Ascended items, though I am not a big fan at all (some of the Cleric’s stats weapons look good, but most are not for me-including the armor skins, though I am not prestige-driven, but more “character-driven,” which explains why.) They may just want the new, cool skin for their character(s) rather than necessarily being “more powerful” than their peers.
This is where GW2 is going currently with all grind, time gating etc (warning: some filthy language present):
http://youtu.be/GpdoBwezFVA
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
Why?
For a person who doesn’t play you wouldn’t understand the reasoning. I don’t want the armour for cosmetic looks or for the stats. Lets see if you can piece together what kind of player I am using the information I have presented across all my posts. I do not play for loot.
Which still makes me wonder why you thought you were the right person to discuss the fairness/design of loot distribution in the first place… >_>:
Actually I am better at it cause I can look at it objectively rather then the subjective view point which is shared among carrot followers. I can sit back and look at how the loot system works, why its designed as it is, and the changes over time to cater to loot minded people. I take a less biased approach to the situation of the fairness and design of the loot as it has little to effect me.
If you want a biased opinion go look at the numerous forums which all complain without even looking at why the system is designed that way. I will admit to flaws in the system and not saying its perfect. What I am saying though is that it is not as bad as people are making it out to be.
The game is designed and advertised a certain way, but the loot minded players are forcing the developers to change the original design. The game was developed so that legendaries would take awhile to make but when people started focusing only on legendaries and none of the other content in the game that’s where the problems started developing.
If you want I can break down what occurred and possible reasons why things where developed as such including ascended.
As has been explained, it’s designed they way it is in order to “encourage” you to use the cash shop? Hmmm, do I want to covert gems to gold and but silk or do I want to farm 250,000 of it? Such a tough choice!
The cash shop only contains utility and cosmetic items. Basically if you want the items its convenient that they allow you to convert gold to gems, but they would rather you use real life money to purchase the items. So no the game is not encouraging you to use the cash shop unless you really want those items (which many of them can be obtained by other means). The Black Lion Chests on the other hand are encouraging you to buy keys (appear to be failing though due to cost and number of them on TP).
The price of silk is players doing not Anet’s. If your going to complain about the price of silk blame the players for placing the price so high. Anet does not set the prices of the items but rather their use inside the game. Silk at one point was the cheapest material in the game and the players wanted a way to use them (to craft more varients of armour was the most common answer given from what I have seen on forums and in game). Anet listened and gave players ascended armour that used a large supply of silk. So to blame for that one is the players in all regards for pricing and for wanting more armour that uses it. Silk was in such abundance that 250,000 silk was nothing.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
This is where GW2 is going currently with all grind, time gating etc (warning: some filthy language present):
http://youtu.be/GpdoBwezFVA
Wow… and yeah, pretty much this. Also if you think they’re being generous letting you buy gems with gold, you’re fooling yourself. It takes 8.5 gold to buy 100 gems. You GET 6g for your 100 gems, and they much prefer you to buy gems to get gold because they know at the rate it takes to gear up naturally, people will VERY quickly spend 10-20 dollars and convert the gems into gold so that they can purchase what is basically the requirements to do decently in the game (at least exotic armor). The very rich (gold wise) few in the game can buy gems because they’re rich, but not many people have that kind of gold to just fork over for “whatever they want” in the gem store via gold. I’d venture many people, however decide one day “man I don’t have much gold, but I’d like to buy a condi set for WvW, since only power is viable for pve, I’ll need to purchase a new set, let me buy some gems and convert to gold because it’s not worth farming for.”
Let me put it this way. In GW2 it is faster to farm gold than for farm materials. But check this. You can work in real life and gain money to buy gold far more efficient than “working” in gws (aka running in circles in Frost Gorge Sound). You make on average 7 gold per hour farming in frost gorge sound. For 800 gems (10 dollars worth, which is a pretty normal mid-low hourly wage) you can buy 6×8, something like 48-50 depending on flux, gold. Not that isn’t not okay for a game to be a time sink, but when people realize this very basic math, it lures them into giving up on even FARMING (playing the game) and just buying their way through the game because it is about 8 times more efficient to just buy gems for gold than even farming gold. Let alone farming the raw materials and never using the TP which is probably hundreds, if not thousands of times less efficient.
This is, of course for people who just want to quickly swap some gear or gear up to feel decently competitive and doesn’t want to play in all greens/yellows forever and “play the game right”. This system wasn’t designed for people to “play the game right”. It wasn’t. They did this on purpose because they know how the mind works. It’s a mindplay, and yes it’s a HUGE grind. So like I said, just think about it.
1 hour of real life work = 8 hours of farming gold in this game = 1000’s of hours farming raw mats. You tell me they didn’t do this on purpose….
Remember, this game doesn’t have a sub. There IS a grind in this game, and it’s not by accident. In fact, I must retract an earlier statement. This isn’t poor design. It’s a brilliant design. But it sucks.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
That only works for lower tier materials.
With normal game-play I managed to get about 3 Charged Lodestone and maybe 15 Charged Core’s. Now with two ingame friend (one being a dungeon runner) sending me there’s as well I have 12 Charged Lodestone and 63 Charged cores. That make a total of 43 Charged Lodestone. If I am correct the minimum you need of them (for a legendary) is 100. I need 250 for what I wanted to make.
Now this is without farming just game-play (and not only mine) because you can’t really farm them. I did google and there is one place where there is a little more change to get them so I did try to farm them there. Problem was that it’s not always possible (depends on some event) and when trying to farm them in about 4 hours total I did get 1 charged core. So while that might have been the best option it’s not really farm-able especially not if you need 100 or 250 of them.
Looking at the other lodestones I have (including 2 cores counting for 1 lodestone) I have about an average of 7. I must say I think I gave some of the Molten Lodestone away and that where the ones most easy to get so lets make it an average of 10. Of normal game-play over a year (been in the game since the beginning but last half year less and less active). So no, you can’t get them with normal game-play and most you also can’t really farm.
The way to then get it is to grind gold and buy them. And that is what I have not been doing.. as can been seen by the low number. Also all the people I know that have legendaries grinded gold to buy the mats they needed. Nobody really got the mats themselves because thats simply not an option.
You know whats better than skill OR gear? Skill AND gear. Also yes, it’s a team effort but you do know when 1 TEAM outgears another TEAM, the difference REALLY starts to add up… In a team environment the gear differences can make a BIGGER difference than 1v1, not smaller. A team of full ascended gear consisting of 2 support guardian, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer could kill probably 20 people in full exotics… (This isn’t an exaggeration)
Skill AND Gear > Skill of course
Your example works both ways, a team of 2 support guardians, a condi necro, hammer/longbow warrior, staff ele, and say an engineer all geared in greens, could kill 20 people in exotics. It’s the team strategy, combination of skills etc that will give them the extra edge. I know what you are saying, if both sides are equal in terms of skill, obviously the side with the most Ascended will win, but skill can’t be measured so easily.A bad player is a bad player, even if he wears ascended. A good player is a good player even he wears greens (or maybe rares). The good player will always win.
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
That only works for lower tier materials.
With normal game-play I managed to get about 3 Charged Lodestone and maybe 15 Charged Core’s. Now with two ingame friend (one being a dungeon runner) sending me there’s as well I have 12 Charged Lodestone and 63 Charged cores. That make a total of 43 Charged Lodestone. If I am correct the minimum you need of them (for a legendary) is 100. I need 250 for what I wanted to make.
Now this is without farming just game-play (and not only mine) because you can’t really farm them. I did google and there is one place where there is a little more change to get them so I did try to farm them there. Problem was that it’s not always possible (depends on some event) and when trying to farm them in about 4 hours total I did get 1 charged core. So while that might have been the best option it’s not really farm-able especially not if you need 100 or 250 of them.
Looking at the other lodestones I have (including 2 cores counting for 1 lodestone) I have about an average of 7. I must say I think I gave some of the Molten Lodestone away and that where the ones most easy to get so lets make it an average of 10. Of normal game-play over a year (been in the game since the beginning but last half year less and less active). So no, you can’t get them with normal game-play and most you also can’t really farm.
The way to then get it is to grind gold and buy them. And that is what I have not been doing.. as can been seen by the low number. Also all the people I know that have legendaries grinded gold to buy the mats they needed. Nobody really got the mats themselves because thats simply not an option.
FOTM has a high rate of Lodestone and core drop rate. If you dont care about which one your getting. Cause in my normal gameplay i gotten more than you just from FOTM.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
~
I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.
If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.
Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.
As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.
So if I want the Jack-a-lop mini. How do I get in in the game? Because thats what I like to do. Go on a hunt for that mini. That is what I think is fun. So please tell me how do I do that without a need to grind gold? Please enlighten me.
Since the mini can only be found the TP you need gold. Which means you do need to grind for it. This has been known from the start of the game (even in beta we knew as they told us even then) that certain cosmetic items will needed to be grinded to gain them. Minis are one of those items. I can not deny that they are a grind to get as that would be against what Anet said. I am talking more on the weapons and armour tiers. Cosmetic versions of each (such as Teq) will need to be grinded to get his weapons.
Ok finally we agree it’s a grind.
Can you now imagine that some (more ‘RPG’) people like that sort of stuff? Collecting mini’s, going for a specific skin doing all that sort of stuff.
And didn’t Anet say GW2 was a good for casual gamers and is it so wrong to think that this is especially something the casual gamer do (collecting mini’s and so on)?
Can you then also see that for those people everything is a big boring grind?
I agree that we did know they had many mini’s in the game during the beta and I did say in the beta-forums that they should have less. Back then it was impossible to know they ONLY had the mini’s in the cash-shop. Also the fact that this was already the case during Beta does not make it any better. You only had access to the beta if you already both the game.
GW had set a big name for itself as a game that generated income with the selling expansions. GW2 was released as a B2P game. Yeah it did have a cash-shop. But at this moment GW2 is much more a micro-transaction based game then a B2P game because it focuses on the cash-shop to generate income. Not on box-sales (including expansions).
I was interested in GW2 mainly because of that B2P and the name they had with GW1. Because I know how micro-transaction based games always hurt the game. Isn’t it P2W then it are these sort of things but it always effects the game in some negative way. So I am very disappointed that GW2 also turned into a micro-transaction based game in stead of a true B2P game. It’s not B2P + micro-transactions where the focus is micro-transactions, not B2P.
BTW the Teq mini and skin is a example of how it should be. Go kill that boss to be able to get that skin or mini.
Problem is that collecting them is already destroyed so why then still go for the 3 mini’s ingame. And the Teq fight is to much based on the luck of getting in a group of players that know what they are doing (not to mention having to wait maybe 2 hours for it to spawn). But that is a whole other problem. In essence the Teq weapons and mini that drop from him are how they all should be. Then you are not required to grind gold but are able to farm that specific item in that specific way.
(edited by Devata.6589)
Ok finally we agree it’s a grind.
Can you now imagine that some (more ‘RPG’) people like that sort of stuff? Collecting mini’s, going for a specific skin doing all that sort of stuff.
And didn’t Anet say GW2 was a good for casual gamers and is it so wrong to think that this is especially something the casual gamer do (collecting mini’s and so on)?
Can you then also see that for those people everything is a big boring grind?
I agree that we did know they had many mini’s in the game during the beta and I did say in the beta-forums that they should have less. Back then it was impossible to know they ONLY had the mini’s in the cash-shop. Also the fact that this was already the case during Beta does not make it any better. You only had access to the beta if you already both the game.
GW had set a big name for itself as a game that generated income with the selling expansions. GW2 was released as a B2P game. Yeah it did have a cash-shop. But at this moment GW2 is much more a micro-transaction based game then a B2P game because it focuses on the cash-shop to generate income. Not on box-sales (including expansions).
I was interested in GW2 mainly because of that B2P and the name they had with GW1. Because I know how micro-transaction based games always hurt the game. Isn’t it P2W then it are these sort of things but it always effects the game in some negative way. So I am very disappointed that GW2 also turned into a micro-transaction based game in stead of a true B2P game. It’s not B2P + micro-transactions where the focus is micro-transactions, not B2P.
Well there is a reason for this focus on the micro-transaction over boxed expansions. The main reasons given by Anet (they have been consistent since before beta about it as well) is that they do not want to fragment the community by releasing expansions. So to generate lost revenue from not selling those expansions (We shall see some major updates in the future I hope that expand the game world) they have to use the cash shop.
Unless you can think of a way for them to generate revenue without them selling boxed expansions and not using the cash shop this is how their business model is going to work.
Anet stated long ago that cosmetics will be a grind to get. What they defined as casuals are people who just log in to complete the daily or have 30mins to 1hr to play each day. With that definition in mind would that person care about digital pixels that they can only see 1hr at most each day (or less)?
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
85 WvW ranks and the results:
I’m not sure, does anyone think this is fun? Sure, handing out free rares and exotics isn’t fun either, but when I’m looking at those guaranteed rares for world boss metas…
http://gw2style.com/index.php – show your look and rate others – great filters!!
The grind most people are upset about aren’t the visual grinds. I’m pretty sure you know that by now… In fact most of the “visual” grinds aren’t very bad at all. Dungeon sets, T3 cultural, etc all of these are fairly easy to grind out. But when you need 250 each of several t6 mats, this and that, AND your best route is to buy them, and it’s to progress VERTICALLY (not horizontally for looks) and in no realistic way could you do it without either buying gold or (less efficiently) farm the gold… That’s the problem. Grinding for ever for visuals, be my guest. For the most part I’d probably skip out on it, but I wouldn’t mind it existing. But these kind of farms to be competitive/on the same playing field as others, it starts to push the boundary of pay to win.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
very true argument. There is nothing more I can add to this one.
If the good player always wins and gear matters little, why are you grinding out the mats for ascended? Why not sell them and make a lot of money? Since you know, ascended doesn’t matter?
I already have enough money. Also like I said I am not grinding the materials. I am gathering them through normal gameplay.
That only works for lower tier materials.
With normal game-play I managed to get about 3 Charged Lodestone and maybe 15 Charged Core’s. Now with two ingame friend (one being a dungeon runner) sending me there’s as well I have 12 Charged Lodestone and 63 Charged cores. That make a total of 43 Charged Lodestone. If I am correct the minimum you need of them (for a legendary) is 100. I need 250 for what I wanted to make.
Now this is without farming just game-play (and not only mine) because you can’t really farm them. I did google and there is one place where there is a little more change to get them so I did try to farm them there. Problem was that it’s not always possible (depends on some event) and when trying to farm them in about 4 hours total I did get 1 charged core. So while that might have been the best option it’s not really farm-able especially not if you need 100 or 250 of them.
Looking at the other lodestones I have (including 2 cores counting for 1 lodestone) I have about an average of 7. I must say I think I gave some of the Molten Lodestone away and that where the ones most easy to get so lets make it an average of 10. Of normal game-play over a year (been in the game since the beginning but last half year less and less active). So no, you can’t get them with normal game-play and most you also can’t really farm.
The way to then get it is to grind gold and buy them. And that is what I have not been doing.. as can been seen by the low number. Also all the people I know that have legendaries grinded gold to buy the mats they needed. Nobody really got the mats themselves because thats simply not an option.
FOTM has a high rate of Lodestone and core drop rate. If you dont care about which one your getting. Cause in my normal gameplay i gotten more than you just from FOTM.
I do care about which one I get and I know FOTM now has the highest general drop for them (not specific ones.. so then in a way it again becomes a gold grind.. grind FOTM for lodestones and sell the ones you don’t want to buy the ones you want) but then still it’s doing a lot of FOTM before you get what you need.
And it’s not like I don’t want to do a lot of work to get an item (that makes an item more special) that I need but as I said I don’t like grinding currency to get an item and you might see how needing 100 or 250 of a specific lodestones turns that lodestone also into a form of currency.
So when it comes to mats (where you need many of) it should be easier to farm them imho. Like what happened with some mats in the past and then Anet patched it out.
But farming a specific item (also if you need that 1 item to create something.. so like mats but then you only need 1) I don’t mind if it’s very hard and to get it. However when collecting a whole bunch of it.. being it gold or lodestone that is just not fun for me many many of the people complaining here.
If it’s one item every time you know that item may drop. So every time there is this feeling of “will it drop now?!”. You might be lucky and get it the first go or unlucky and need many more then runs that the average but every time there is that feeling.
Thats what makes it fun and epic when you get it.
When grinding gold or mats then when it finally drops or you get the gold there is only the feeling of “ok 99 more to go.. pfff” and when you then finally create the item you want it might be partly “epic” but also partly “nice to be done with that”.
They’re note necessary evils, you just THINK they are because you haven’t seen better.
There are tons of games that I play over and over and over because they’re just, you know, FUN. I still play 10, 20 year old games today like Final Fantasy Tactics, SWAT4, Master of Orion, because the gameplay is just so awesome that I keep coming back for more. Nobody released a new expansion for these games, I just play ‘em again because its’ fun. I also still play more recent games over and over, things like Monster Hunter or say Dungeons of Dredmor, no new content has been released really in a long time except some unofficial mods, but I keep coming back for more.
Maybe if MMO developers actually focused on making fun game mechanics instead of shiny things, bad Living World stories, and endless grinds, people would keep playing because it’s fun, and not because they’re hamsters endlessly running in a hamster wheel.
You have cited all NON-MMO examples.
Question; do you play Final Fantasy Tactics every day? Or do you set it down for a while after you complete all the content? I suspect you do the latter, like a rational person.
Because see… an MMO’s lifeblood is concurrency numbers. It’s getting people to log in every single day if they can. I know Arena.net promised GW2 was a game you could set aside for a while and pick back up… but they don’t REALLY want you doing that. They want you playing their game every single day.
But NO MMO can provide you new content every single day. It’s not possible. They need to get you replaying content over and over. The simplest, and most effective, way to do that is to NOT give you what you want right away.
That’s how it is in the MMO world.
But it doesn’t HAVE to be that way. Take FPS for example. Once upon a time I was playing Counterstrike 4-8 hours every day. There was no grind, I just loved playing. Today the same thing happens with Battlefield 4.
You don’t NEED a grind to get people coming back. Even if I got all the items/upgrades I wanted, I’d still be playing. This already happens to an extent in GW2 — I keep coming back to WvW everyday to play it because it’s fun! There’s no grind involved. I just play because it’s fun!
ANet needs to focus on these kinds of game modes and make them fun.
Part of the problem is the player base themselves — there are people who won’t touch WvW or PVP with a ten foot pole.
Too bad ANet isn’t having much success converting these PVErs…. so they have to do the grind thing and the Living World thing to keep them happy. That’s a bit sad. It’s how MMORPGs are, comes with the territory in this genre. I wish MMORPGs would break from this mode already. GW2 was supposed to be the game to break this mold. It made a good effort but hasn’t really broken free of the curse.
#ELEtism on Eredon Terrace
The grind most people are upset about aren’t the visual grinds. I’m pretty sure you know that by now… In fact most of the “visual” grinds aren’t very bad at all. Dungeon sets, T3 cultural, etc all of these are fairly easy to grind out. But when you need 250 each of several t6 mats, this and that, AND your best route is to buy them, and it’s to progress VERTICALLY (not horizontally for looks) and in no realistic way could you do it without either buying gold or (less efficiently) farm the gold… That’s the problem. Grinding for ever for visuals, be my guest. For the most part I’d probably skip out on it, but I wouldn’t mind it existing. But these kind of farms to be competitive/on the same playing field as others, it starts to push the boundary of pay to win.
Why would it be worse for vertically then for horizontal? Like if a gold-grind suddenly becomes more fun when it’s horizontal.
The only reason YOU personally don’t mind that is because you don’t care about those items.
“Grinding for ever for visuals, be my guest. For the most part I’d probably skip out on it, but I wouldn’t mind it existing.”
So when complaining about your game-play please also don’t forget about others people game-play.
It’s just as bad horizontal as vertical it just depends on the persons game-play if it hurts him.
The grind most people are upset about aren’t the visual grinds. I’m pretty sure you know that by now… In fact most of the “visual” grinds aren’t very bad at all. Dungeon sets, T3 cultural, etc all of these are fairly easy to grind out. But when you need 250 each of several t6 mats, this and that, AND your best route is to buy them, and it’s to progress VERTICALLY (not horizontally for looks) and in no realistic way could you do it without either buying gold or (less efficiently) farm the gold… That’s the problem. Grinding for ever for visuals, be my guest. For the most part I’d probably skip out on it, but I wouldn’t mind it existing. But these kind of farms to be competitive/on the same playing field as others, it starts to push the boundary of pay to win.
That I am aware of which is why I stated to Devata that I am talking about Weapons and Armour grind (vertical progression) rather than horizontal. Mind you there is people who are complaining about how rare Teq weapons are and how they want it set at like 30% chance drop rate lol.
Most of the “grind” for ascended can not be bought with gems so its far from pay to win. Like I stated before I have enough materials to make a set of ascended armour for one my characters if I wanted to at this point of time. Also as stated before competitiveness in this game especially is a chosen view. A person of higher skill will beat a person of lower skill and skill is hard to determine especially when it comes to unbalanced gameplay in WvW.
Ranger; Warrior; Mesmer; Elementalist; Guardian; Engineer
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
[GWAM] and [LUST]
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
To everyone complaining about Random Number Generator (RNG) and grind in Guild Wars 2 (GW2): You guys need to play more Massively Multiplayer Online Roly Playing Games (MMORPG). Lets take a Free-to-Play (FTP) game such as Forsaken World (FW) for instance. To get any where in the game you need certain items to progress. The RNG in that game is so bad that many people use the in-game botting system to farm the items that they need. Basically meaning your character needs to be logged in for days on end (24/7) just to get items that you need.
World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.
Perfect World (PW) is similar to FW (made by the same company) but has even worse grind and drop rates to the point you have to kill monsters for hours or even days just to get items for a single quest. You basically sit there for hours killing a specific mob in a specific area for hours to months (depends on how lucky you are) just hoping you will get that one item.
In GW2, precursors are pretty common as evidence by the number of people with legendaries in LA. Also, money is easy to obtain in GW2 where as in WoW, FW, and PW money takes forever to obtain. WoW, FW, and PW require you to grind for long periods of time inorder to obtain enough money to buy anything useful.
So if you want to complain go ahead, but I suggest you play Forsaken World and Perfect World first and make the comparison. By saying GW2 is grindy or has terrible RNG makes most MMOs look like bloody nightmare. By saying GW2 is grindy or has terrible RNG you are making a comparison of a form. If you want to say GW2 is grindy which MMORPG has less grind? Which MMORPG has better RNG?
WoW, FW, and PW are worse on these two points so if your making a comparison with these games you are insane! Just for your information I have never gotten a precursor in 1500+ hours of playing Guild Wars 2.
No. No. Just no. A thousand no’s. I’ve played WoW. I’ve played Forsaken World. I’ve played Perfect World. I’ve played the grindiest of the grindiest games. I’ve practically played almost every MMO out there except for some of the lesser-known Chinese farming games.
Let me tell you right now, Guild Wars 2 has THE absolute worst RNG in any MMORPG EVER. Guild Wars 2 is not as grindy as most MMO’s, but the RNG in GW2 is unbelievably terrible. I would rather have Wow’s RNG system. I would rather have Perfect World’s RNG system (even though it is pretty bad, GW2’s is still worse).
Over 90% of my life has been dealing with MMORPG’s and games in general. You cannot convince me that Guild Wars 2 actually has decent RNG.
[~Galtrix~] [~Level 80 Elementalist~] [~GoM~]