Guild Wars 2

Suddenflame.2601:

Law is also good to learn. But as I stated they haven’t diverted from what they advertised as you suggest cause they never said anything about BiS gear changing (as they also believed back in Nov. 2012 that they could raise the level cap as well not sure if they think that now though).

Thats just being disingenuous as has been stated in numerous debates on the topic one of the initial pillars of the game was easy to obtain BiS and harder to obtain cosmetics. They haven’t stuck to this. And stat increases of >10% are significant.

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

So is D3 is an MMO ?

Earlier post i said No as it is not persistent world.

however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all.

Which D3 doesn’t have either. It only allows 5 people per game (guessing more in PvP not sure havn’t tried that part)

LoL We decided about persistent world. Let’s decide now what is a lot of players If D3 will allow 20 man party will it be MMO ?
Last post in this thread. Was unable to keep out this time.

Devata.6589:

Suddenflame.2601:

World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.

Been talking a lot about this in the micro-transactions thread and let me tell you this.

If I want to collect mini’s in GW2 there are 3 main ways.

1 Grinding achievements against the clock because they will be removed within a few weeks.

2 Grinding gold to buy the mini’s from the TP.

3 Buying items or gold (to buy the items) with cash.

If I was to do the same thing in WoW I would do a quest for one mini or create another mini with a craft or do a dungeon (sometimes completing sometimes farming a dungeon) for another mini, or farming a specific type of mobs for yet another mini.
Oow and if you want to grind gold to then buy it from the TP that is in many cases still an option but not required.

I am very sorry to say but if it’s this sort of game-play you like GW2 is the most grindy game out there and no, your WoW example does not require the same amount of grind. It might require some farming but at least you can then farm for one specific item and every item does then require another farm. But here it is almost all gold grind, gold grind, gold grind ,and achievement grinds.

I also have the feeling you are mixing up farming and grinding but to be fair the definition is a little vague.

Main thing to blame. The focus on the micro/transactions because this way they make buying gems to convert to gold much more interesting.

I think your mixing up the terms a bit lol

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_

Farming is grinding as you are repeating the same process over and over. The Achievement minis are not a grind since you do not repeat the same process over and over. I own a large number of minis without grinding. To get all the minis i will have to farm (aka grind) for it such as mini karka.

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

Suddenflame.2601:

WRay.2391:

So is D3 is an MMO ?

Earlier post i said No as it is not persistent world.

however others just have large numbers of players competing at once in one form or another without any lasting effect to the world at all.

Which D3 doesn’t have either. It only allows 5 people per game (guessing more in PvP not sure havn’t tried that part)

LoL We decided about persistent world. Let’s decide now what is a lot of players If D3 will allow 20 man party will it be MMO ?
Last post in this thread. Was unable to keep out this time.

I would not classify it as a MMO since i dont consider 20 to be Massively. If they allowed 100+ on a single server I would consider it. (much like Diablo 2). The way Diablo 3 was designed was drastically different from Diablo 2 it would need massive changes to allow it to be a MMORPG.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

Suddenflame.2601:

World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.

Been talking a lot about this in the micro-transactions thread and let me tell you this.

If I want to collect mini’s in GW2 there are 3 main ways.

1 Grinding achievements against the clock because they will be removed within a few weeks.

2 Grinding gold to buy the mini’s from the TP.

3 Buying items or gold (to buy the items) with cash.

If I was to do the same thing in WoW I would do a quest for one mini or create another mini with a craft or do a dungeon (sometimes completing sometimes farming a dungeon) for another mini, or farming a specific type of mobs for yet another mini.
Oow and if you want to grind gold to then buy it from the TP that is in many cases still an option but not required.

I am very sorry to say but if it’s this sort of game-play you like GW2 is the most grindy game out there and no, your WoW example does not require the same amount of grind. It might require some farming but at least you can then farm for one specific item and every item does then require another farm. But here it is almost all gold grind, gold grind, gold grind ,and achievement grinds.

I also have the feeling you are mixing up farming and grinding but to be fair the definition is a little vague.

Main thing to blame. The focus on the micro/transactions because this way they make buying gems to convert to gold much more interesting.

I think your mixing up the terms a bit lol

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_

Farming is grinding as you are repeating the same process over and over. The Achievement minis are not a grind since you do not repeat the same process over and over. I own a large number of minis without grinding. To get all the minis i will have to farm (aka grind) for it such as mini karka.

Yes and no. The achievements one you could see as not grinding because you need to do different task for every reward / mini. However the problem is that you can’t also just see it as farming because it’s temporary so you pretty much have to do it or miss out on that mini in total, also it’s always a list of achievements you need to do. Meaning your task is really completing that list. Making it a process of engaging in repetitive task, the completion of the achievements.

So in a way it fits maybe in both definitions and in a way it doesn’t fit in any of them. But simply because of the fact that it’s temporary it really feels like a never ending grind. Complete your list of achievements.. oow there is another list.. completed it, there is another list.

But I agree. The achievements one is one you could also define as not grinding.

The other ones are very much a gold-grind.

But like I said, the definition is always a little vague. Because if you want to collect all mini’s (Not in GW2) in many games one mini might require you to simply kill one type of mob many times. So then it might look like a grind but looking over the complete collection every mini requires a different approach meaning it is not so much a grind anymore in total but more farming. In the end everything in an MMORPG requires some repetitive work.

The way I like to define it to make a more clear line between the two is the question if there is a currency in between. If you are not directly working for the item you want but just doing repeating task to get the currency to then buy the item it’s more grinding.

If you are doing repeatable work for the specific item it’s farming because different items require different task.

Then only the question is, what are currencies. Tokens and gold are, I think a level is as well. But can you see crafting mats as currency’s? and how about achievements?

Normally I would say achievements would be farming because you are pretty much farming for that one item but because it’s temporary it becomes an ongoing repeat that makes me define it as a grind.

Also see your own link: “Related terms include farming (in which the repetition is undertaken in order to obtain items, relating the activity to tending a farm field)”.

Devata.6589:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

Suddenflame.2601:

World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.

Been talking a lot about this in the micro-transactions thread and let me tell you this.

If I want to collect mini’s in GW2 there are 3 main ways.

1 Grinding achievements against the clock because they will be removed within a few weeks.

2 Grinding gold to buy the mini’s from the TP.

3 Buying items or gold (to buy the items) with cash.

If I was to do the same thing in WoW I would do a quest for one mini or create another mini with a craft or do a dungeon (sometimes completing sometimes farming a dungeon) for another mini, or farming a specific type of mobs for yet another mini.
Oow and if you want to grind gold to then buy it from the TP that is in many cases still an option but not required.

I am very sorry to say but if it’s this sort of game-play you like GW2 is the most grindy game out there and no, your WoW example does not require the same amount of grind. It might require some farming but at least you can then farm for one specific item and every item does then require another farm. But here it is almost all gold grind, gold grind, gold grind ,and achievement grinds.

I also have the feeling you are mixing up farming and grinding but to be fair the definition is a little vague.

Main thing to blame. The focus on the micro/transactions because this way they make buying gems to convert to gold much more interesting.

I think your mixing up the terms a bit lol

Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_

Farming is grinding as you are repeating the same process over and over. The Achievement minis are not a grind since you do not repeat the same process over and over. I own a large number of minis without grinding. To get all the minis i will have to farm (aka grind) for it such as mini karka.

Yes and no. The achievements one you could see as not grinding because you need to do different task for every reward / mini. However the problem is that you can’t also just see it as farming because it’s temporary so you pretty much have to do it or miss out on that mini in total, also it’s always a list of achievements you need to do. Meaning your task is really completing that list. Making it a process of engaging in repetitive task, the completion of the achievements.

So in a way it fits maybe in both definitions and in a way it doesn’t fit in any of them. But simply because of the fact that it’s temporary it really feels like a never ending grind. Complete your list of achievements.. oow there is another list.. completed it, there is another list.

But I agree. The achievements one is one you could also define as not grinding.

The other ones are very much a gold-grind.

But like I said, the definition is always a little vague. Because if you want to collect all mini’s (Not in GW2) in many games one mini might require you to simply kill one type of mob many times. So then it might look like a grind but looking over the complete collection every mini requires a different approach meaning it is not so much a grind anymore in total but more farming. In the end everything in an MMORPG requires some repetitive work.

The way I like to define it to make a more clear line between the two is the question if there is a currency in between. If you are not directly working for the item you want but just doing repeating task to get the currency to then buy the item it’s more grinding.

If you are doing repeatable work for the specific item it’s farming because different items require different task.

Then only the question is, what are currencies. Tokens and gold are. But can you see crafting mats as currency’s? and how about achievements?

Normally I would say achievements would be farming because you are pretty much farming for that one item but because it’s temporary it becomes an ongoing repeat that makes me define it as a grind.

I tend to think that farming and grinding are the same thing, but one is positive and the other is negative. Grinding to me is a negative term where as farming is a positive term. Both are used in the same context to display different emotions towards the task.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

Suddenflame.2601:

~

Yes and no. The achievements one you could see as not grinding because you need to do different task for every reward / mini. However the problem is that you can’t also just see it as farming because it’s temporary so you pretty much have to do it or miss out on that mini in total, also it’s always a list of achievements you need to do. Meaning your task is really completing that list. Making it a process of engaging in repetitive task, the completion of the achievements.

So in a way it fits maybe in both definitions and in a way it doesn’t fit in any of them. But simply because of the fact that it’s temporary it really feels like a never ending grind. Complete your list of achievements.. oow there is another list.. completed it, there is another list.

But I agree. The achievements one is one you could also define as not grinding.

The other ones are very much a gold-grind.

But like I said, the definition is always a little vague. Because if you want to collect all mini’s (Not in GW2) in many games one mini might require you to simply kill one type of mob many times. So then it might look like a grind but looking over the complete collection every mini requires a different approach meaning it is not so much a grind anymore in total but more farming. In the end everything in an MMORPG requires some repetitive work.

The way I like to define it to make a more clear line between the two is the question if there is a currency in between. If you are not directly working for the item you want but just doing repeating task to get the currency to then buy the item it’s more grinding.

If you are doing repeatable work for the specific item it’s farming because different items require different task.

Then only the question is, what are currencies. Tokens and gold are. But can you see crafting mats as currency’s? and how about achievements?

Normally I would say achievements would be farming because you are pretty much farming for that one item but because it’s temporary it becomes an ongoing repeat that makes me define it as a grind.

Also see your own link: “Related terms include farming (in which the repetition is undertaken in order to obtain items, relating the activity to tending a farm field)”.

I tend to think that farming and grinding are the same thing, but one is positive and the other is negative. Grinding to me is a negative term where as farming is a positive term. Both are used in the same context to display different emotions towards the task.

Well it’s not the same but I agree that grinding is more negative then farming. For me at least. But there are also people who prefer grinding over farming.

To have the absolute best in slot you need full ascended with omni infusions. Now full ascended you guys probably have an idea about what it costs. The omni infusions are around 120-150g/piece and you need around 16 of them. Do the math. Say it’s not grindy.

Suddenflame.2601:

TooBz.3065:

Fine, in my subjective opinion the RNG in this game is unpleasant. The only way I can enjoy the game is if I don’t try to get anything. Whenever I set a goal, I’m frustrated, irritated, and annoyed the entire time until I abandon it and go back to faffing about.

I can’t see how that can be good design.

When setting a goal on getting something you should first not try to make it an immediate goal, but rather one to work towards.

You can’t set a goal towards something entirely random. .-.
Unless you set a goal via gold towards an item on the TP.

robertul.3679:

To have the absolute best in slot you need full ascended with omni infusions. Now full ascended you guys probably have an idea about what it costs. The omni infusions are around 120-150g/piece and you need around 16 of them. Do the math. Say it’s not grindy.

B-B-B-B-But you don’t NEED ascended. You can still do all the content in masterwork gear!

LOL, statistical advantages DON’T matter in PvE or WvW! Haven’t you been reading the forums?!?!?!?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

robertul.3679:

To have the absolute best in slot you need full ascended with omni infusions. Now full ascended you guys probably have an idea about what it costs. The omni infusions are around 120-150g/piece and you need around 16 of them. Do the math. Say it’s not grindy.

B-B-B-B-But you don’t NEED ascended. You can still do all the content!

LOL, statistical advantages DON’T matter in PvE or WvW! Haven’t you been reading the forums?!?!?!?

Right? 5 second kill, 3 minute kill, who gives a kitten, same difference really. 4 shotting a guy in wvw as a thief or 1 shotting him, I mean 1… 4, these a both very small numbers, stats don’t matter. #trollface

Devata.6589:

So then it might look like a grind but looking over the complete collection every mini requires a different approach meaning it is not so much a grind anymore in total but more farming.

I think Devata point out exactly what I’m trying to say.

While other mmorpg make you do repetitive things. At least they give you new maps to farm every 100 hours, new dungeon to play after you done it 50 times. New daily to do after a couple of month.

1 year later in GW2, I’m still doing the same dungeon I done last year, I’m still farming in the same zone, the daily the same everyday.

Grant the main reason is this game “is designed for casuals”, so Anet made all the content present to you right after you reach lvl80.

But I find that as a problem for a “grinder”, since grinding is more boring in this game compare to other. I have new things to look for if I grind in other games, new dungeon, new area, new daily. But in this game, there is no reward for grinding. You can play everything right after you reached lvl80.

Suddenflame.2601:

Ashen.2907:

Suddenflame.2601:

Ashen.2907:

Suddenflame.2601:

In PW, FW, and WoW to even get to the fun you need the rewards.

The same can be true in GW2.

Also keep inmind that PW and FW are true F2P games without an initial buy in through a box purchase. The games are designed around grind while the cash shop provides means of shortcutting to the desired goal. Not a very good choice for comparison IMO.

GW2 you can play any content as long as your max level, but you don’t need the rewarded gear to be successful to see more of the content (expect FOTM but it was designed and told to be that way). Nothing is prohibiting my lvl20 thief from entering WvW. There is nothing prohibiting a warrior lvl80 in masterwork armour from entering any of the games content. That is not the same as WoW, PW, and FW which requires you to have the rewarded gear to see more content.

The comparison is between MMORPGs and their design choice of gear gated content compared to nongated content so it is relevant.

You said, “to get to the fun.”

The fun, for me at least, is running round in the game world playing through various content, enjoying the combat mechanics, at max level…using BiS gear. In order to, “get to the fun,” the rewards are needed.

You can enjoy the content (if you enjoy the content), enjoy the combat mechanics (if you like the combat mechanics), and be at max level without having rewards. BiS gear you need rewards but if that’s what it takes for you to be happy I just have to say that is pretty shallow.

That did not take very long at all. You got to personal insults for those who enjoy things differently than yourself in very good time.

Suddenflame.2601:

So far they have kept with their advertisements. What is the problem other than you interpreting the meaning wrong?

They advertised that we would have BiS gear by level 80. Can you explain how that occurs with Ascended gear ?

i totally agree with op, but there are always haters and people who are complain in all games and they have no proper logic for their complain they are just like 12 years old kid who wants something now,and when he is not getting it starts with complain.
however ill add more games that i played long enough to know them well to your examples: rift and swtor much more grindy than gw2 and stuff u get will be out dated with new tier of gear while in gw2 your legendary will last forever and actually easier to get than some of those so called best in slot gear of those games.

“In most games, you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionally that you get to do and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swong a sword. I swong a sword again. Hey! I swong it again and that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way that people view combat.”

Anet must find their own game horribly boring as what they described as no fun is what most of their game is made of.
They said other games have boring grind and they want to make their game fun.

Do the math:

Grind = boring = no fun
Therefore:
No grind = not boring = fun

Now to say, that there is a bit less grind than in other games is:

A little bit less grind = A little bit less boring = a little bit fun

A really fun game they said…

Kaiyanwan.8521:

“In most games, you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionally that you get to do and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swong a sword. I swong a sword again. Hey! I swong it again and that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way that people view combat.”

Anet must find their own game horribly boring as what they described as no fun is what most of their game is made of.

I don’t think they lied. You don’t need to grind to play any aspect of the game.

The problem is this game just don’t have thousands of hours of “fun content”. (actually no games have).

I use the word “fun” as symbolic of non-repetitive content here. So please don’t respond you have thousands of hours of play time and still ahving fun.

maddoctor.2738:

Similar with Fractal Rings, Ascended Armor and Weapons from Tequatl/Wurm etc when you get the stats you DON’T want but your friend/guildie wants them. It’s a seriously flawed loot distribution system.

Luckily, accound-bound ascended drops can also be obtained by crafting, while precursors are bind-on-equip (not craftable-I certainly hope it stays that way, or else…), so they can be traded freely if a guild-mate gets two and you none.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

That’s funny. I raid on WoW for about 3-4 hrs a week and get geared in a couple months. Typically there are 5-6 months between tiers. I have fun and it’s not a grind. What would I get out of 3-4 hrs a week here? Probably spend half of it simply waiting on a single Teq event lol

Same here. Currency systems are far superior. The problem i had with the ascended weapon grind in particular was the whole aspect of even getting the mats that were random, and then having to rely on laurels (that i wanted to save for other things mind you) and then having to build up the same exact materials for a two hander for 1 pistol. I mean really? Even WoW had half currency on the Timeless Isle for 1 handed weapons.

I Like building up resources to get things, that’s not the issue with me at all with this system, but making it so that many of the items that you need may or may not drop off of mobs is ridiculous. It’s like WoW’s older system from the 40 man days I’m sure you remember where you ran dungeons/raids literally forever before getting that final drop. It’s one of the reasons I left Cata, they had no shoulders for hunters preraid, it was literally easier to get a PVP shoulder than run the dungeon 400 times.

This system is much worse because you’re not just running a dungeon your getting mats from all over the place and many of them have a chance to NOT drop. I play other titles with a currency based gear system far far superior. There’s even a guild gear system in one of the scifi games I play. Love it got my guy geared half way through getting the guild up to tier 3. This game could totally use a revamp of gearing the toons starting with replacing the currency for racial gear with karma, making laurel gear cost karma. They could also do with an update guild system, where resources could be pooled into a guild development system with gear as the reward.

saye.9304:

i totally agree with op, but there are always haters and people who are complain in all games and they have no proper logic for their complain they are just like 12 years old kid who wants something now,and when he is not getting it starts with complain.
however ill add more games that i played long enough to know them well to your examples: rift and swtor much more grindy than gw2 and stuff u get will be out dated with new tier of gear while in gw2 your legendary will last forever and actually easier to get than some of those so called best in slot gear of those games.

Never had a problem that a mini or a mount got out dated.

The problem here is that there are people like you who only care about stats and don’t understand that many people are interested in other type of game-play in an RPG.

ronpierce.2760:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

robertul.3679:

To have the absolute best in slot you need full ascended with omni infusions. Now full ascended you guys probably have an idea about what it costs. The omni infusions are around 120-150g/piece and you need around 16 of them. Do the math. Say it’s not grindy.

B-B-B-B-But you don’t NEED ascended. You can still do all the content!

LOL, statistical advantages DON’T matter in PvE or WvW! Haven’t you been reading the forums?!?!?!?

Right? 5 second kill, 3 minute kill, who gives a kitten, same difference really. 4 shotting a guy in wvw as a thief or 1 shotting him, I mean 1… 4, these a both very small numbers, stats don’t matter. #trollface

Yeah…the dishonesty and misrepresentation used to defend this game and developer decisions is just staggering. Fact of the matter is that in order to be on a level playing field in PvE or WvW you need to endure a hellacious grind. Which, of course, could be made a bit easier by spending a little cash at the gem shop. ::wink wink::

Dark Catalyst.1028:

ronpierce.2760:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

robertul.3679:

To have the absolute best in slot you need full ascended with omni infusions. Now full ascended you guys probably have an idea about what it costs. The omni infusions are around 120-150g/piece and you need around 16 of them. Do the math. Say it’s not grindy.

B-B-B-B-But you don’t NEED ascended. You can still do all the content!

LOL, statistical advantages DON’T matter in PvE or WvW! Haven’t you been reading the forums?!?!?!?

Right? 5 second kill, 3 minute kill, who gives a kitten, same difference really. 4 shotting a guy in wvw as a thief or 1 shotting him, I mean 1… 4, these a both very small numbers, stats don’t matter. #trollface

Yeah…the dishonesty and misrepresentation used to defend this game and developer decisions is just staggering. Fact of the matter is that in order to be on a level playing field in PvE or WvW you need to endure a hellacious grind. Which, of course, could be made a bit easier by spending a little cash at the gem shop. ::wink wink::

But wait.. that subtle hint is Pay to win!
But wait… It doesn’t matter because the numbers don’t matter right?!
Ugh… I give up… Point is, the actual GAME design is poorly executed, it’s very grindy and they ruined the “little grind, even footing for competitive play” grounds that they advertised and were so praised for. And even when they did have this, the game is boring and comes down to buying everything you need. It’s not really debatable, it’s deniable by people who refuse to open their eyes, but it’s not debatable…

tigirius.9014:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

That’s funny. I raid on WoW for about 3-4 hrs a week and get geared in a couple months. Typically there are 5-6 months between tiers. I have fun and it’s not a grind. What would I get out of 3-4 hrs a week here? Probably spend half of it simply waiting on a single Teq event lol

Same here. Currency systems are far superior. The problem i had with the ascended weapon grind in particular was the whole aspect of even getting the mats that were random, and then having to rely on laurels (that i wanted to save for other things mind you) and then having to build up the same exact materials for a two hander for 1 pistol. I mean really? Even WoW had half currency on the Timeless Isle for 1 handed weapons.

I Like building up resources to get things, that’s not the issue with me at all with this system, but making it so that many of the items that you need may or may not drop off of mobs is ridiculous. It’s like WoW’s older system from the 40 man days I’m sure you remember where you ran dungeons/raids literally forever before getting that final drop. It’s one of the reasons I left Cata, they had no shoulders for hunters preraid, it was literally easier to get a PVP shoulder than run the dungeon 400 times.

This system is much worse because you’re not just running a dungeon your getting mats from all over the place and many of them have a chance to NOT drop. I play other titles with a currency based gear system far far superior. There’s even a guild gear system in one of the scifi games I play. Love it got my guy geared half way through getting the guild up to tier 3. This game could totally use a revamp of gearing the toons starting with replacing the currency for racial gear with karma, making laurel gear cost karma. They could also do with an update guild system, where resources could be pooled into a guild development system with gear as the reward.

Yes. When I saw what was needed for one ascended item and the amount of running around I’d have to do, it was so overwhelming that I just never bothered. And there is no alternative way to get them reliably. Like you said, even WoW offered the option of PvP shoulders if you can’t get a PvE drop. And Timeless. It only took a day or two to get the coins necessary for a weapon. What option does one have other than a torturous mat grind or getting extremely lucky?

ronpierce.2760:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

ronpierce.2760:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

robertul.3679:

To have the absolute best in slot you need full ascended with omni infusions. Now full ascended you guys probably have an idea about what it costs. The omni infusions are around 120-150g/piece and you need around 16 of them. Do the math. Say it’s not grindy.

B-B-B-B-But you don’t NEED ascended. You can still do all the content!

LOL, statistical advantages DON’T matter in PvE or WvW! Haven’t you been reading the forums?!?!?!?

Right? 5 second kill, 3 minute kill, who gives a kitten, same difference really. 4 shotting a guy in wvw as a thief or 1 shotting him, I mean 1… 4, these a both very small numbers, stats don’t matter. #trollface

Yeah…the dishonesty and misrepresentation used to defend this game and developer decisions is just staggering. Fact of the matter is that in order to be on a level playing field in PvE or WvW you need to endure a hellacious grind. Which, of course, could be made a bit easier by spending a little cash at the gem shop. ::wink wink::

But wait.. that subtle hint is Pay to win!
But wait… It doesn’t matter because the numbers don’t matter right?!
Ugh… I give up… Point is, the actual GAME design is poorly executed, it’s very grindy and they ruined the “little grind, even footing for competitive play” grounds that they advertised and were so praised for. And even when they did have this, the game is boring and comes down to buying everything you need. It’s not really debatable, it’s deniable by people who refuse to open their eyes, but it’s not debatable…

Right on. The promise of much reduced grinding was why I even bothered with this game in the first place. Poorly executed game design from a fun perspective and brilliantly executed from a business perspective. Boring as hell sums it up and it’s why I went back to WoW. It’s just a lot more fun and engaging.

Suddenflame.2601:

[snip…]
World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.
[snip…]

WoW is comparatively mild in terms of grind compared to GW2. And, I have actually come to prefer a short/steep grind to a long/slow one. Only people who are heroic raiders grind to BiS, and realistically there is no need for it if you aren’t playing at the top of the game. Over the years I have learned that it takes about 1-2 months to gear up a main and my alts, PvE and PvP, to a level where I am comfortable and powerful. After that short grind I am free to do whatever I want for the remainder of the tier. I can actually relax and play the game my way. They have even created an island where you can gain ~100 item levels if you wish and be prepared to enjoy the final raids at a level you are comfortable wish. They have invested in making the process quick and easy.

Contrast this to GW2’s long, slow grind. My main character has trinkets only because I don’t want to grind out the weapon’s or coming pieces. I don’t want to because of the nature of the grind. I especially don’t want to level crafting (think about how expensive it is) just to be able to craft an item. The cost is too much in terms of grind and currency. And, my alts? Forget about ever getting them anywhere near ascended. That grind would be in the years not months.

No, WoW is extremely mild compared to GW2 in terms of grind. I am a staunch opponent of vertical progression, but can tell you honestly that if you are going to have it, quick and steep is the way to go…much less painful.

All I can say is that if the RNG was gone, this would be THE BEST GAME OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE!.

OP logic: Being beaten to a bloody pulp in a dark alley is not that bad because being murdered in said alley is worse.

Never had a problem that a mini or a mount got out dated.

The problem here is that there are people like you who only care about stats and don’t understand that many people are interested in other type of game-play in an RPG.[/quote]

yes u sound like you never played other mmos before,yes mini and mounts get outdated,if u have one year old mount and game since then added a lot of better looking mounts,your mounts is pretty outdated, wow actually made money by selling mounts and mini because people wanted new stuff and get bored with old stuff which is called outdated((improve your english please)).
i dont care about stats at all that is why i defended legendary weapons in this game which last forever and you do not have to grind for that particular weapon anymore.read my post properly then reply please.
the game is MMOrpg go search the google about the term then you will understand what is difference between mmorpg and rpg before you play any games of sort.

Yes I did play many MMORPG’s.

You said “stuff u get will be out dated with new tier of gear while in gw2 your legendary will last forever” and thats nice but there is much more grinding of mini’s and skins in GW then in many other games.

Because in many other MMORPG’s it’s a game-play element while in GW2 it’s a grind.

An MMORPG is simply an RPG with many people active in the open world.

ronpierce.2760:

Just because some games have even worse designers doesn’t make the rng and grind in gw2 acceptable…. It just means it’s not the worst contender. Also GW2 is aimed for a us/eu audience, the audiences who least enjoy long terrible grinds.

GW2 was supposed to launch in the east last fall. It was preparing for that.

But since NCSoft put that on hold INDEFINATELY we get CDIs so they try to repair damage theyve done to their game in the west.

Its funny really. It could have been a wonderful game.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

“In most games, you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionally that you get to do and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swong a sword. I swong a sword again. Hey! I swong it again and that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way that people view combat.”

Anet must find their own game horribly boring as what they described as no fun is what most of their game is made of.
They said other games have boring grind and they want to make their game fun.

Do the math:

Grind = boring = no fun
Therefore:
No grind = not boring = fun

Now to say, that there is a bit less grind than in other games is:

A little bit less grind = A little bit less boring = a little bit fun

A really fun game they said…

In Anets defense, the quote you put up looks to me like the context was speaking about combat.

There are 3 truly horrible grinds in this game for me:
1. Spvp rank grind. Scaling between brackets pains me every time I look at it.
2. WvW title grind. Scaling between brackets pains me every time I look at it + majority extend to numbers no one will ever reach.
3. Legendary required material grind. Game forces me to farm gold because I can’t realistically farm the materials myself because of dismal drop rates. Sad that it’s easier to just farm gold and be forced to use the TP.

Loot wise…almost every other game I have played have had better loot systems….that includes GW1. Simply put….if I want to farm an item, I go out and farm it. Can’t be done here. Killing in the open world has devolved into champ only kills and not really doing any events cept the metas here and there. I’m finding it hard to gather motivation to pve at all.

Side note: Wish there was a way to grind laurels. Right now I would accept it. They are just tied to too many things that I would use them for.

Raine.1394:

Suddenflame.2601:

[snip…]
World of Warcraft (WoW) a subscription based MMORPG that makes you spend weeks to months performing raids to get best-in-slot gear. This is repeated often for new best-in-slot gear is added often. During these raids it is not guaranteed that you will get the piece you need. Some raids you can only perform once a week making you wait for another chance (hence chance) at getting the piece you need. To get other items in the game you need to compete with other players (as drops are not shared between the players) to grind to get items since drop rates are low to force you to grind.
[snip…]

WoW is comparatively mild in terms of grind compared to GW2. And, I have actually come to prefer a short/steep grind to a long/slow one. Only people who are heroic raiders grind to BiS, and realistically there is no need for it if you aren’t playing at the top of the game. Over the years I have learned that it takes about 1-2 months to gear up a main and my alts, PvE and PvP, to a level where I am comfortable and powerful. After that short grind I am free to do whatever I want for the remainder of the tier. I can actually relax and play the game my way. They have even created an island where you can gain ~100 item levels if you wish and be prepared to enjoy the final raids at a level you are comfortable wish. They have invested in making the process quick and easy.

Contrast this to GW2’s long, slow grind. My main character has trinkets only because I don’t want to grind out the weapon’s or coming pieces. I don’t want to because of the nature of the grind. I especially don’t want to level crafting (think about how expensive it is) just to be able to craft an item. The cost is too much in terms of grind and currency. And, my alts? Forget about ever getting them anywhere near ascended. That grind would be in the years not months.

No, WoW is extremely mild compared to GW2 in terms of grind. I am a staunch opponent of vertical progression, but can tell you honestly that if you are going to have it, quick and steep is the way to go…much less painful.

people kinda think of WoW or EQ from begining of the century lol.

WoW now has what, 4-5 (kinda stopped counting) incarnations of same raid and you can see all content in “greens” if you want to (and all the similar games have done so).

Compared to grind in GW2, WoW/SWTOR/Rift/LOTRO…. …. …. are puppy love, i could get all BiS gear on all characters in all those game before i could get 1 character geared in GW2 lol. Not to mention alts…:)

Yah, its not THE worst of the worst of Korean grinders, but that really kinda puts it nicely in perspective

nagr.1593:

Stop thinking it as ‘grinding’. find a way to make gold that u have fun with. for instance I run dungeons (only the ones I like though) for an easy 15-20g/day and am satisfied with that. haven’t jumped on a single train and dont ever plan on it.

Oh lucky you! Dungeon Runs are the most profitable thing to do in the entire game, so of course you’re happy.

I’ve done everything in this game and I can tell you, Dungeon Running is far more profitable than champ training, unless you are lucky and get that lottery drop of a precursor or whatever rare item.

I hate this RNG lottery, it makes me resentful of people who manage to get a good drop, when I should be happy for them, simply because I’ve spent so much time trying to do the same thing and get nothing. It’s bad vibes.

Why are you comparing the grind to just other MMORPGs?

Why not compare it to the grind in a JRPG, or some other kind of game? It’s not necessarily MMO. Grind is grind. YOu can grind in Farmville, you can grind in FF7, you can grind in Fruit Ninja.

Fact is, I know grind when I see one. When I say GW2 is grindy, it’s because I am doing Repetitive Actions to amass a certain resource. That’s all grindy means.

And your argument is a logical fallacy, it’s the “Two Wrongs Make a Right” fallacy. Sadly, two wrongs are still “wrong,” and GW2 beign grindy is still “wrong.”

Especially since ANet specifically stated that “they don’t make grindy games.”

The Ascended/Legendary grind is a sack of kitten. Very poorly designed. Especially for a game that is not supposed to be grindy. GW2 was supposed to “save the MMORPG genre” by being different and breaking from the conventions that had become accepted as the norm for this genre. It didn’t break away far enough; it’s still stuck in the grind rut.

It’s not as kittenome other games, but it’s still a grind and an annoying, boring one.

To the people arguing about the “rewards” vs “fun”, nobody said they play the game just for the legendary. Those are the people who “rage quit” from playing because they can’t get their precursor. What I saw some people saying here is that people are “turned off” from the grind because it’s not fun, and thus just play normally “for fun.”

I have been wanting to make a legendary for two months now. I have earned about 300 gold towards making one. I still need to make about 1,200 for the rest of the stuff (mostly for the T6 mats and Precursor)

I got so sick of grinding for gold that I’m just chilling now in WvW and PvP, because it’s freakin’ boring grinding for gold. I still hope some day I will have that 1,200 gold I need.

Anet really needs to fix the broken Precursor market, it’s ridiculous.

Devata.6589:

Yes I did play many MMORPG’s.

You said “stuff u get will be out dated with new tier of gear while in gw2 your legendary will last forever” and thats nice but there is much more grinding of mini’s and skins in GW then in many other games.

Because in many other MMORPG’s it’s a game-play element while in GW2 it’s a grind.

An MMORPG is simply an RPG with many people active in the open world.

what many other games we are talking about?is it the so called triple A mmos like rift,swtor,wow.tsw, etc.((these games are on top of mmo list as of today,others are worser than them))
if those are your examples then just download games like rift and swtor because they are free,play for one month and then tell me about it.
i am not saying gw2 is perfect,no as matter of fact this games need a lot of improvement but comparing gw2 with crappy,greedy and grindy mmos is totally unfair.

RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.

I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.

chemiclord.3978:

RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.

I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.

I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.

chemiclord.3978:

RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.

I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.

They’re note necessary evils, you just THINK they are because you haven’t seen better.

There are tons of games that I play over and over and over because they’re just, you know, FUN. I still play 10, 20 year old games today like Final Fantasy Tactics, SWAT4, Master of Orion, because the gameplay is just so awesome that I keep coming back for more. Nobody released a new expansion for these games, I just play ‘em again because its’ fun. I also still play more recent games over and over, things like Monster Hunter or say Dungeons of Dredmor, no new content has been released really in a long time except some unofficial mods, but I keep coming back for more.

Maybe if MMO developers actually focused on making fun game mechanics instead of shiny things, bad Living World stories, and endless grinds, people would keep playing because it’s fun, and not because they’re hamsters endlessly running in a hamster wheel.

Akari Storm.6809:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

“In most games, you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionally that you get to do and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swong a sword. I swong a sword again. Hey! I swong it again and that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way that people view combat.”

Anet must find their own game horribly boring as what they described as no fun is what most of their game is made of.
They said other games have boring grind and they want to make their game fun.

Do the math:

Grind = boring = no fun
Therefore:
No grind = not boring = fun

Now to say, that there is a bit less grind than in other games is:

A little bit less grind = A little bit less boring = a little bit fun

A really fun game they said…

In Anets defense, the quote you put up looks to me like the context was speaking about combat.

There are 3 truly horrible grinds in this game for me:
1. Spvp rank grind. Scaling between brackets pains me every time I look at it.
2. WvW title grind. Scaling between brackets pains me every time I look at it + majority extend to numbers no one will ever reach.
3. Legendary required material grind. Game forces me to farm gold because I can’t realistically farm the materials myself because of dismal drop rates. Sad that it’s easier to just farm gold and be forced to use the TP.

Loot wise…almost every other game I have played have had better loot systems….that includes GW1. Simply put….if I want to farm an item, I go out and farm it. Can’t be done here. Killing in the open world has devolved into champ only kills and not really doing any events cept the metas here and there. I’m finding it hard to gather motivation to pve at all.

Side note: Wish there was a way to grind laurels. Right now I would accept it. They are just tied to too many things that I would use them for.

Your number 3 is not only true for legendary weapons but for all ‘RP items’ (hard to define that group of items, I usually refer to RP).

You want to collect mini’s. It’s the same problem (in combination with grinding achievements before they are gone forever).
Same for skins, dyes and finishers.

Problem is that they are mainly monetizing that area of the game. And the fact that you can’t farm the items you need because of the way the loot works means you indeed (like you say) have to grind gold. That makes gold more important and thats in the hope people are more likely to buy gems.

I think the thread is nice but nobody seems to be pointing to the source of this problem and thats simply the focus on the cash-shop.

Have a read: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/A-focus-on-micro-transactions/first

nagr.1593:

Stop thinking it as ‘grinding’. find a way to make gold that u have fun with. for instance I run dungeons (only the ones I like though) for an easy 15-20g/day and am satisfied with that. haven’t jumped on a single train and dont ever plan on it.

But that is not fun for me. I have no fun doing something to get money. I have fun going for a item. That is what I consider fun. And because every item then requires another route I get to do different things all the time. Fun again.

But GW2 simply required a gold-grind. You can’t really go for an item. And if you ,after a patch, are able to farm some mats it gets patched out in a few hours. They don’t want you to farm items or mats because they want you to buy items or gold. When you are having fun playing the game to get to your goal (those items) you are not buying it so they make sure you can’t do that. Sadly there are then enough people foolish enough that they will indeed buy it.

What now happens is that many people dislike to have to grind gold for items so they search for the easiest way. What was CoF P1 and now it are the champ trains. And it keeps them busy but are they having fun? Enough of them are doing it just because they have set the goal of getting that legendary or because they are in the game to talk with there guild-members or simply because they don’t have an alternative game (yet).

But many haven’t fun doing it and thats why you also see so many negative reactions on the forum.

Mochann.5298:

They’re note necessary evils, you just THINK they are because you haven’t seen better.

There are tons of games that I play over and over and over because they’re just, you know, FUN. I still play 10, 20 year old games today like Final Fantasy Tactics, SWAT4, Master of Orion, because the gameplay is just so awesome that I keep coming back for more. Nobody released a new expansion for these games, I just play ‘em again because its’ fun. I also still play more recent games over and over, things like Monster Hunter or say Dungeons of Dredmor, no new content has been released really in a long time except some unofficial mods, but I keep coming back for more.

Maybe if MMO developers actually focused on making fun game mechanics instead of shiny things, bad Living World stories, and endless grinds, people would keep playing because it’s fun, and not because they’re hamsters endlessly running in a hamster wheel.

You have cited all NON-MMO examples.

Question; do you play Final Fantasy Tactics every day? Or do you set it down for a while after you complete all the content? I suspect you do the latter, like a rational person.

Because see… an MMO’s lifeblood is concurrency numbers. It’s getting people to log in every single day if they can. I know Arena.net promised GW2 was a game you could set aside for a while and pick back up… but they don’t REALLY want you doing that. They want you playing their game every single day.

But NO MMO can provide you new content every single day. It’s not possible. They need to get you replaying content over and over. The simplest, and most effective, way to do that is to NOT give you what you want right away.

I love the logic in this thread.

If A isn’t as bad as B, then A must be good.

Let’s apply that to history and see if it works, shall we?

The Bosnian genocide wasn’t as bad as the Rwandan genocide, therefore the Bosnian genocide must be a good thing.

Good logic, eh?

What makes these grinds so bad is that this game was promised not to have such things (in the manifesto) and it miserably failed the expectations of everyone who trusted that.

Pip.2094:

What makes these grinds so bad is that this game was promised not to have such things (in the manifesto) and it miserably failed the expectations of everyone who trusted that.

No it wasn’t. They explicitly tell you IN THE kitten MANIFESTO what they mean by “grind,” and it’s not what you’ve told yourself it means.

I get you and many players on this forum are disappointed and bitter, but don’t lie and make up facts because the actual facts don’t support it.

NewTrain.7549:

I love the logic in this thread.

If A isn’t as bad as B, then A must be good.

Let’s apply that to history and see if it works, shall we?

The Bosnian genocide wasn’t as bad as the Rwandan genocide, therefore the Bosnian genocide must be a good thing.

Good logic, eh?

I think you missed the point at no point did I say GW2 is good or perfect. In my original post I said basically stated that the grind is not that horrible as everyone here is making it sound.

RNG exists in every game and by removing it 100% like people are suggesting would create more problems and would shorten the life-span of the game drastically.

What would you do if everything in the game was guaranteed? If everything you wanted was guaranteed to be given to you by doing X content.

I doubt you would be playing this game in 1 month from now cause you would have obtained every item you wanted, and everyone would have every item.

In a living world if you miss content you can not get it back what should make a game be any different? GW2 is not the only game that bars miniatures (or mounts) behind one time events. Pretty much every game that gives out miniatures or mounts places them behind events that if you miss you can’t get them any more. So if your going to complain about not being able to complete your miniature collection because of this than stop missing events cause its your own fault for missing it.

Devata.6589:

nagr.1593:

Stop thinking it as ‘grinding’. find a way to make gold that u have fun with. for instance I run dungeons (only the ones I like though) for an easy 15-20g/day and am satisfied with that. haven’t jumped on a single train and dont ever plan on it.

But that is not fun for me. I have no fun doing something to get money. I have fun going for a item. That is what I consider fun. And because every item then requires another route I get to do different things all the time. Fun again.

But GW2 simply required a gold-grind. You can’t really go for an item. And if you ,after a patch, are able to farm some mats it gets patched out in a few hours. They don’t want you to farm items or mats because they want you to buy items or gold. When you are having fun playing the game to get to your goal (those items) you are not buying it so they make sure you can’t do that. Sadly there are then enough people foolish enough that they will indeed buy it.

What now happens is that many people dislike to have to grind gold for items so they search for the easiest way. What was CoF P1 and now it are the champ trains. And it keeps them busy but are they having fun? Enough of them are doing it just because they have set the goal of getting that legendary or because they are in the game to talk with there guild-members or simply because they don’t have an alternative game (yet).

But many haven’t fun doing it and thats why you also see so many negative reactions on the forum.

An exploit is an exploit. Anet has added many ways to farm for awhile now and even added locations to farm at during certain LS. Anet does not want people just to play in a single area for all the money, but rather you spread out across the entire world (they still failing at that, but they are working on it).

Anet is not forcing people to play as they do. The goal the developers are wanting the players to do is to have fun. The players on the other hand are forcing their own unfun grind.

Let me ask you this what do the majority of the people do after they get their legendary? Since that was their only goal, and now they have achieved it what do they do?

ronpierce.2760:

chemiclord.3978:

RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.

I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.

I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.

If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.

I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.

If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.

Akari Storm.6809:

Kaiyanwan.8521:

“In most games, you go out and you have really fun tasks occasionally that you get to do and the rest of the game is this boring grind to get to the fun stuff. I swong a sword. I swong a sword again. Hey! I swong it again and that’s great. We just don’t want players to grind in Guild Wars 2. No one enjoys that, no one finds it fun, we want to change the way that people view combat.”

Anet must find their own game horribly boring as what they described as no fun is what most of their game is made of.
They said other games have boring grind and they want to make their game fun.

Do the math:

Grind = boring = no fun
Therefore:
No grind = not boring = fun

Now to say, that there is a bit less grind than in other games is:

A little bit less grind = A little bit less boring = a little bit fun

A really fun game they said…

In Anets defense, the quote you put up looks to me like the context was speaking about combat.

There are 3 truly horrible grinds in this game for me:
1. Spvp rank grind. Scaling between brackets pains me every time I look at it.
2. WvW title grind. Scaling between brackets pains me every time I look at it + majority extend to numbers no one will ever reach.
3. Legendary required material grind. Game forces me to farm gold because I can’t realistically farm the materials myself because of dismal drop rates. Sad that it’s easier to just farm gold and be forced to use the TP.

Loot wise…almost every other game I have played have had better loot systems….that includes GW1. Simply put….if I want to farm an item, I go out and farm it. Can’t be done here. Killing in the open world has devolved into champ only kills and not really doing any events cept the metas here and there. I’m finding it hard to gather motivation to pve at all.

Side note: Wish there was a way to grind laurels. Right now I would accept it. They are just tied to too many things that I would use them for.

1. Long term goal. Not the only game that does this (many games do it this way). If your trying to grind for these titles thinking you can get them within a year, think again. GW1 was the same way so it is not any different here. It took years for anyone to reach the highest rank in GW1.
2. Long term goal. Mind you I well say I did the math for this one and its impossible to do within the life cycle of the game. It would take over 10 years to get any of the titles unless your able to yaks every 2mins
3. PVE long term goal. All the materials on the TP have been farmed by someone. Also if you were to play this game for like 3-5yrs you could easily have that many materials plus more for your legendary. Without farming I have over 50% of my legendary completed.

The main issue that I am noticing is your trying to play the game like it won’t exist in a year and trying to force long term goals into a short term schedule which is creating a grind. Hell for 1 and 2 impossible grinds as the time required is impossible to get those titles in a short-term time frame.

Play the game for fun rather than chasing that carrot on the stick. If you play for fun that carrot will get closer, and you won’t be mad at grinding.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

chemiclord.3978:

RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.

I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.

I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.

If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.

I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.

If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.

Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

chemiclord.3978:

RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.

I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.

I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.

If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.

I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.

If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.

Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.

As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

chemiclord.3978:

RNG and grind are two of those necessary evils in MMO games… they’re an easy way to make content repeatable, and content in an MMO pretty much has to be repeatable because there is no way a company can make content as fast as players can consume it.

I think players know that and understand that; the issue tends to be the degree and scale of RNG and grind.

I love farming and grinding. But you have to be able to OBTAIN these items, not farm gold to buy them because RNG is soooooo bad that there’s no other way… If I could go out and say have a 50% chance to get 1 (ONE) of the 250 (TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY) of a single PART of… ugh, you get the idea… If I could realistically farm these fragments, sure… But kitten buying them all… zzzz.

If you love farming and grinding I am going to wonder about you for a bit. Repeating the same process over and over is repetitive and boring no matter the rewards involved. If that is your fun is repeating the process just to obtain a reward I just got to wonder.

I am wondering so much I don’t know what to say but that is some carrot chasing. The only time I repeat the process is when I am trying to increase my skill at that task, such as jumping puzzles.

If I remember correctly there was a psychological test done on animals for this.

Farming can be relaxing but ONLY if it feels rewarding. How in the world are you going to “wonder about me” feeling okay with SOME level of grinding/farming, when you’re the one defending the grind in GW2, the same grind that I (someone who even CAN get behind grinding) feels is too much. Sounds like you need to be worrying about yourself… This ascended armor very much is a carrot chase. Once Legendary armor comes out, you’ll have another long run for the carrot. And guess what, it’ll be just as if not more grindy than this one. The problem isn’t that there Is a grind, its that it’s so much based on gold grinding and not farming the actual materials you need. They can’t up the drop rates because it would hurt the economy, thus yes. This game IS economy driven, and it is a very-very bad thing.

As I said before I don’t grind in this game cause there isn’t a need to grind. Your creating your own grind. Your trying to change the game to match your grinding gameplay which in the long run would hurt the core of the game. If you stop trying to force a grind into a game that does not want or need it than the game becomes fun. Why are you even trying to grind? Legendaries are a long term PvE goal as stated by Anet. The issue is that people are trying to force Long term goals into short-term time frames.

That’s incorrect. Getting ascended armor IS a grind. Just because you chose to not partake in it or care enough to shoot for it until it falls upon you doesn’t make it not a grind. For example you could play a Korean MMO that requires you to kill mobs for 3 years to go from level 1 to max level. You don’t care if you ever hit max, so you just play every once in a while and kill stuff. It’s still a grind, you just don’t so much CARE about reaching the goal. A grind is a grind, whether you are hardcore about it or not.