Guild Wars 2

Suddenflame.2601:

In GW2, precursors are pretty common as evidence by the number of people with legendaries in LA.

ok…

I really don’t think the % of legendaries is as high as people think. They just tend to stand out more and therefore SEEM more prevalent than they really are.

chemiclord.3978:

That’s a company that has no scruples from the top on down… because if that REALLY happened, and there was ANYONE with any shard of a soul remaining within that company… that person would have talked to someone. That sort of underhanded manipulation of their own game would not have gone without a peep.

What about NDAs? Its the sort of thing that can take years to come out.

chemiclord.3978:

I really don’t think the % of legendaries is as high as people think. They just tend to stand out more and therefore SEEM more prevalent than they really are.

Also, people with them are people who tend to play a lot more, so you know. People who play a lot, you tend to bump into more often.

But also, while I may not believe they are quite AS blood-sucking as portrayed, I do firmly believe that the DR on loot, the low drop rates and huge focus on the economy has everything to do with their way of making money. It’s pretty cut and dry, people will realize it’s more time efficient to buy gems and convert to gold (based on a normal hourly wage) than to farm gold/other objects, thus once they realize that they’ll open their wallet to try to speed up the process. It’s an easy trap to fall into. It’s not sinister, per se, but it certainly is a bit greedy with the extent of it, and it does hurt the game’s epic feeling and overall gameplay.

Suddenflame.2601:

In GW2, precursors are pretty common as evidence by the number of people with legendaries in LA.

I just noticed this now. What in Heaven and Earth are talking about? Precursors are so abysmally hard to acquire that Even Anet themselves have announced that they’re going to change the acquisition method. Your statement doesn’t hold up very well.

ronpierce.2760:

Also, WoW was designed with grinding in mind. People know to expect it every few months. However their grinds, while more, are shorter. Thus they become more GRATIFYING (and why WOW was criticized for spoiling the mmo community with all of its “instant gratification”). The thing is, many small grinds are okay because you feel rewarded. In gw2 you can’t even “grind” for half the stuff you want. You end up grinding gold to buy it all because the drops are very unreliable, hence no gratification until the very end of a looooong road for just 1 reward (say, a legendary). And for most, it’s just not worth it. Grinds need some satisfaction to justify continuing your grind. And to be frank, grinding ascended/legendaries in gw2 is both boring and unsatisfying.

I’m in complete agreement. GW2 makes legendaries and ascended gear their idea of end game content, meaning it suppost to take you months even years to get something.
Add it the fact your expected to do 1 of 2 methods, grind endlessly to get gold to buy those over priced gems or give them real money. lots of it.

Trying to analyse the topic:

Does GW2 have a worse RNG than it’s competitors? Let’s take a look at one of the larger games out there: WoW

Best in slot items droprate compared to Ascended Gear (BIS in GW2):
Here is a list of drops from one of the raid bosses in WoW: http://de.wowhead.com/npc=71865#drops:0+17-3-18+1

items of itemlevel 572-574 have a droprate from 0.06 – 0.17 (which means 1-3 out of 1754)

There was a post on Reddit from a guy who opened Champion Lootboxes (which should contain Ascended Gear Boxex), see:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1tphls/analysis_opened_646_gilded_coffers_and_605_gilded/

he opened 646+605= 1251 boxes and got 1 Ascended Gear Box

If you ask me…

• GW2 shows a better droprate
• in WoW you can get BIS only from Raidbosses, in GW2 you can craft it by yourself, no specific content required. Fractals/Dungeons not required.

The problem imho isn’t the droprate but the quantity of items that can drop. Looking at the WoW boss in the link above, he can drop 178 different items, most of it quite good (in GW2 terms: specific exotic stuff). A lot of good items have a droprate above 5% up to 20%… in GW2 on the other hand exotics are still really rare.

PS: what adds to this is the “seen droprate”. What I’m trying to say: In WoW you see the drops of 25 people, then you roll the dice for these items. You might not get a lot, but it looks like you have a quit good chance of getting something.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Trying to analyse the topic:

Does GW2 have a worse RNG than it’s competitors? Let’s take a look at one of the larger games out there: WoW

Best in slot items droprate compared to Ascended Gear (BIS in GW2):
Here is a list of drops from one of the raid bosses in WoW: http://de.wowhead.com/npc=71865#drops:0+17-3-18+1

items of itemlevel 572-574 have a droprate from 0.06 – 0.17 (which means 1-3 out of 1754)

There was a post on Reddit from a guy who opened Champion Lootboxes (which should contain Ascended Gear Boxex), see:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1tphls/analysis_opened_646_gilded_coffers_and_605_gilded/

he opened 646+605= 1251 boxes and got 1 Ascended Gear Box

If you ask me…

• GW2 shows a better droprate
• in WoW you can get BIS only from Raidbosses, in GW2 you can craft it by yourself, no specific content required. Fractals/Dungeons not required.

The problem imho isn’t the droprate but the quantity of items that can drop. Looking at the WoW boss in the link above, he can drop 178 different items, most of it quite good (in GW2 terms: specific exotic stuff). A lot of good items have a droprate above 5% up to 20%… in GW2 on the other hand exotics are still really rare.

PS: what adds to this is the “seen droprate”. What I’m trying to say: In WoW you see the drops of 25 people, then you roll the dice for these items. You might not get a lot, but it looks like you have a quit good chance of getting something.

You always get something. There are personal loot tables on bosses. And in heroics you are guaranteed a drop for your spec. Plus the tokens.

Comparing the two at this stage where there just isn’t a lot of gear (cosmetic or otherwise) in GW2 is kind of pointless. Anet just really needs to up their game on unique items that drop in the open world from large, non farmable events. More skins please.

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Neural.1824:

The RNG and grind in GW2 is mind-numbing. NCSoft and Anet are obsessed with squeezing as much money out of the playerbase as possible in the shortest amount of time. The end result is a game that comes across as kitten in the “finished product” department, and a loot system and economy built soley on the push to get players to open their wallets. For the majority who fall on the “lose” side of the kitten RNG, everything is a grind. Want T6 mats? Grind gold to buy them. Want a special skin? Grind gold to buy it. Want a mini? Grind gold to buy it.
The entire game is focused on forcing people to grind for gold, and it is deliberately designed that way. They are creating a high pressure environment where the only thing that matters is gold, because psychologically it has been proven to bring in more real cash.
You know why we don’t have a large number of emotes/animations? Because they were seen as superfelous to the end goal of making money. They were additional development work that was seen as “no cash flow”. Same applies for fixing a number of QoL issues. The Monetization Lords see it as a waste of time because players aren’t leaving the game over it and it doesn’t bring in more money.
By design everything is forced into being an issue of gold. Diminishing Returns is not about bots, it never has been. It’s about limiting loot drops so that players need more gold to buy the items they want, because needing more gold is another pressure to open the wallet and just buy gold.
Then there’s the “urgency” pressure. They introduce gem and gold valued items that are only a round for a short period of time. “buy now, or miss out!”. People feel pressure to open their wallet to get that item they want. RNG plays a massive part in this. “Buy black lion keys with gems and you could get a Black Lion Claim Ticket!”. Anet is actively, and knowingly, feeding off of people who have money and don’t know they have a gambling addiction. It’s worse than gambling, in fact, because all the items are virtual and have no real value. So people are not even gambling real money to get a possible cash prize.
Every aspect of it works together to apply as much pressure as possible on the players to pay real money.

Yes, Anet needs to make money to stay in business. What they are doing however is abuse. It needs to stop.

I was going to post something but this blows anything I could write up out of the water.

Yeah that post from Neural and Dark Catalyst reaction on it pretty much sums it up all.

It’s why I dislike the focus on micro-transactions so much. I also made a thread about the focus on micro-transactions to basically say exactly this.

But some people seem to not want to see it.

What is really mind-numbing is when you go to the threads where they ask “how much money did you spend on gems”. People are there very proudly telling they spend hundred of dollars on gems.

Like it gives them any status (this is also what the prices are all about Anet gives to gem-buyers. Make them feel special) and how they are helping to support the game.

While they fail to see that they simply can’t handle money, monetize people are just using those sort of people (as milk cows) to get money out of there wallets and in fact they are not helping to support the game but helping to destroy it. Because without such people the game would not have such a gem-store focus (as it would not work) what only could benefit the games quality.

Neural.1824:

Suddenflame.2601:

DR was introduced due to bots. I was playing back then. Not sure if you were, but there was a lot of bots back then. DR if your being hit with it you really need to rethink what your doing cause it doesn’t kick in for hours of you playing in place without logging out and switching zones. Also, you aware there is more and more games having RNG boxes. WoW from what i am aware is going to add them if they have not already. So do not think this is just Anet. It is only pressure if you allow it to be. If you allow it pressure you should go get checked out by a councilor or a therapist for an addiction issue.

As a few people pointed out they do not feel pressured but if you do then you have a problem that should seek professional help with it. I have missed dailies, LS, and other things without much of a care as I do not feel pressured to keep playing. If I was paying a subscription fee i would feel pressured to play to get my moneys worth. Since GW2 does not have you should not feel pressured.

I’m not really in the mood to answer this but I will try to do so clearly. First, it’s clear that you are the type who will never be shown any other way than what you think is true. That much is obvious from your comments on this and other threads where you are given plenty of evidence contrary to your statements but you continually argue semantics.

Thats not completely true. He already agreed in this topic that indeed there is a lot of grind while his OP was about exactly the opposite.

However it’s now about if grind is worse then the possible ‘fragmentation’ expansions would give and that grind has been there since the beginning (still fail to see how that makes it better). But he did agree that indeed there was a lot of grind. So I can’t say he does not want to see anything else that is original idea.

3000+ hours ingame not a single percursor or ascended loot. this “RNG” is so fair

I love what they did with the Marionette: give key-fragments for participating in the event and combine those to keys which open various chests. It’s really fun to open those chests again and again and again, even though it’s mostly greens.

What I’d like to see as a further evolution of this: combine all the 5 keys to open a new chest which has at least a guaranteed rare and a good shot at (some) exotics (+ a really good chance for something non-combaty – like the Mini)

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love what they did with the Marionette: give key-fragments for participating in the event and combine those to keys which open various chests. It’s really fun to open those chests again and again and again, even though it’s mostly greens.

What I’d like to see as a further evolution of this: combine all the 5 keys to open a new chest which has at least a guaranteed rare and a good shot at (some) exotics (+ a really good chance for something non-combaty – like the Mini)

I’d agree here, but I don’t agree with the direction the event went on the flipside. Like … do it again and again and again. In a sense it is the same as “destroy 20 sonic periscopes in 5 maps”, but it is less flexible – I can’t “adventure” and run into it – I have to be there, wait for it, look at the clock, wait for it … to me that is a worse kind of a grind than killing 1000 Aetherblade mobs.

The loot chamber etc was really nice. Although here as well this underlying "do it again because you only have 18 dodads and you need 25 for another key. Argh I think they are still clogging up my inventory.

Devata.6589:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Neural.1824:

The RNG and grind in GW2 is mind-numbing. NCSoft and Anet are obsessed with squeezing as much money out of the playerbase as possible in the shortest amount of time. The end result is a game that comes across as kitten in the “finished product” department, and a loot system and economy built soley on the push to get players to open their wallets. For the majority who fall on the “lose” side of the kitten RNG, everything is a grind. Want T6 mats? Grind gold to buy them. Want a special skin? Grind gold to buy it. Want a mini? Grind gold to buy it.
The entire game is focused on forcing people to grind for gold, and it is deliberately designed that way. They are creating a high pressure environment where the only thing that matters is gold, because psychologically it has been proven to bring in more real cash.
You know why we don’t have a large number of emotes/animations? Because they were seen as superfelous to the end goal of making money. They were additional development work that was seen as “no cash flow”. Same applies for fixing a number of QoL issues. The Monetization Lords see it as a waste of time because players aren’t leaving the game over it and it doesn’t bring in more money.
By design everything is forced into being an issue of gold. Diminishing Returns is not about bots, it never has been. It’s about limiting loot drops so that players need more gold to buy the items they want, because needing more gold is another pressure to open the wallet and just buy gold.
Then there’s the “urgency” pressure. They introduce gem and gold valued items that are only a round for a short period of time. “buy now, or miss out!”. People feel pressure to open their wallet to get that item they want. RNG plays a massive part in this. “Buy black lion keys with gems and you could get a Black Lion Claim Ticket!”. Anet is actively, and knowingly, feeding off of people who have money and don’t know they have a gambling addiction. It’s worse than gambling, in fact, because all the items are virtual and have no real value. So people are not even gambling real money to get a possible cash prize.
Every aspect of it works together to apply as much pressure as possible on the players to pay real money.

Yes, Anet needs to make money to stay in business. What they are doing however is abuse. It needs to stop.

I was going to post something but this blows anything I could write up out of the water.

Yeah that post from Neural and Dark Catalyst reaction on it pretty much sums it up all.

It’s why I dislike the focus on micro-transactions so much. I also made a thread about the focus on micro-transactions to basically say exactly this.

But some people seem to not want to see it.

What is really mind-numbing is when you go to the threads where they ask “how much money did you spend on gems”. People are there very proudly telling the spend hundred of dollars on gems.

Like it gives them any status (this is also what the prices are all about Anet gives to gem-buyers. Make them feel special) and how they are helping to support there game.

While they fail to see they they simply can’t handle money, monetize people are just using those sort of people (as milk cows) to get money out of there wallets and in fact they are not helping to support the game but helping to destroy it. Because without such people the game would not have been such a gem-store focus (as it would not work) what only could benefit the games quality.

Yeah. GW2 was my first, and last, “free to play” game because the cash shop left such a bad taste in my mouth. It’s why I prefer to just pay a sub and have access to everything instead if getting nickel and dimed on things like bag slots and bank tabs.

Honestly, I should’ve followed my intuition when I first started. I remember feeling disappointed when I found out you had to buy bag slots and with the way items pile up I quickly found myself hurting for space. I gave it a shot anyway, because hey! No sub.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Yeah. GW2 was my first, and last, “free to play” game because the cash shop left such a bad taste in my mouth. It’s why I prefer to just pay a sub and have access to everything instead if getting nickel and dimed on things like bag slots and bank tabs.

Honestly, I should’ve followed my intuition when I first started. I remember feeling disappointed when I found out you had to buy bag slots and with the way items pile up I quickly found myself hurting for space. I gave it a shot anyway, because hey! No sub.

I don’t have a particular problem with that. Of course we all play different, but you could basically treat it like a $10 per month sub if you’d like. With the bonus of not paying for updates (so far) and the option to convert your gold.

ronpierce.2760:

I’m just going to say this. I think it’s too late for this game to become a good “game” as far as collecting and crafting by playing the GAME (not the market). They make too much money from it, they won’t risk hurting the community’s precious economy, and they release big-change patches so rarely… I hate to say it, but honestly, I feel like the game has a foot in the grave and is stepping on a rock with the other.

The game’s economy is already shot, the inflation on items is ridiculous — I hear once upon a time you could get a Dusk for like 60 gold. Today it goes for 700+gp. That’s what you call broken.

Funny thing is, ANet said like a year ago that this is a ridiculous situation, and that they are going to do something about it, but they still haven’t.

I fear it’s as others such as you have already voiced out: Anet’s livelihood depends on gem sales, and since gems can be used to buy gold, they don’t want to make any big changes or fixes in the gold economy, because right now people are still buying gems to buy gold.

That saddens me a little inside, but what can I do? So I just keep sloughing away at dungeon grinds to make that 700 gold.

Kind of confused as to why their “economist” couldn’t foresee this. Having the capability to buy gold ruins the game economy with ridiculous inflation. It’s why Blizzard cracks down on gold buyers/sellers.

chemiclord.3978:

Man, if you honestly believe people within Arena.net manufactured their own bot crisis in order to justify a crippling diminished returns mechanic with the purpose of pressuring players into buying gems with cash dollars… not even Christ Jesus would be able to resurrect the spirit of that company.

That’s a company that has no scruples from the top on down… because if that REALLY happened, and there was ANYONE with any shard of a soul remaining within that company… that person would have talked to someone. That sort of underhanded manipulation of their own game would not have gone without a peep.

Put that sort of scenario out in the political arena, and Oliver Stone is begging you to make a movie about it.

It’s personal experience. I’ve worked for companies like the one I describe. No matter how much you can’t stand what is going on, when the company is working within the law, there is nothing you can do about it. Speak up and what you’ll end up with is no job, because, as I said, the company is within the law.

Nothing that Anet has done, and none of the things I believe they’ve done, is against the law (to my knowledge anyway).

chemiclord.3978:

ronpierce.2760:

I can help answer this in my POV, while, of course I’d love to see his as well. My reason is that ANet had a wonderful IDEA and pitch that they gave. It sounded great, but they failed on execution. Being one of the bigger MMO creators, it gives room for hope that things can be changed with enough feedback. Especially feedback with substance/direction. I love GW2 combat because it loosens up the tab target MMO standard, weapon swings cleave like you’d expect a two handed sword to do, etc. There are ways to fix the issues in the game to make it a great game. It ultimately comes down to “will they do it?” I’d say none of the other current MMOs would do me better because either they have similar issues, worse issues or in the case of WoW, I’ve just played it out over the last 8 years. I needed a change in scenery, plus a break for the traditional tab targeting. GW2 has hope, the developers just need to act on it if they want to salvage it.

Okay, so in other words, you DON’T think Arena.net is conspiring to cheat you or bleed your wallet dry. You just think they’ve “lost their way” I guess is one way to put it. Good on ya; I find I disagree with a lot of the things you want (based on previous things I’ve seen in other threads), but that’s fine.

But that doesn’t really answer my question. He seems to believe that Arena.net is simply out to fleece their customers before the inevitable collapse once other titles launch. Personally, the Arena.net that he paints… there’s no redeeming them. There’s no bringing that company back. That company would be rotten to the core.

In other words, the Arena.net Neural sees… there’s no hope. So why is he still here?

You are not only dealing with ArenaNet. You are just as well dealing with Ncsoft. What I would love to know is who makes what decisions.

I know who said “dyes should be soul-bound” but who says “we work with world / general loot drops in stead of localized drops”, we put 99% of all mini’s in the cash-shop, for the dyes we do not put colors as drops bun unidentified dyes, we make items in the game and cash-shop temporary available, we make farming impossible, we focus on the cash-shop to generate money, not on expansions (what is the core for the other decisions).

These sorts of decisions, who makes them? Thats are the decisions that are so bad but we don’t know if it’s Anet or just a few people inside Anet of Ncsoft or maybe some other stakeholders? Without knowing thats it’s hard to say if it can change. But lets hope it can. Else it would be a waste of a game that had good potential.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Trying to analyse the topic:

Does GW2 have a worse RNG than it’s competitors? Let’s take a look at one of the larger games out there: WoW

Best in slot items droprate compared to Ascended Gear (BIS in GW2):
Here is a list of drops from one of the raid bosses in WoW: http://de.wowhead.com/npc=71865#drops:0+17-3-18+1

items of itemlevel 572-574 have a droprate from 0.06 – 0.17 (which means 1-3 out of 1754)

There was a post on Reddit from a guy who opened Champion Lootboxes (which should contain Ascended Gear Boxex), see:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1tphls/analysis_opened_646_gilded_coffers_and_605_gilded/

he opened 646+605= 1251 boxes and got 1 Ascended Gear Box

If you ask me…

• GW2 shows a better droprate
• in WoW you can get BIS only from Raidbosses, in GW2 you can craft it by yourself, no specific content required. Fractals/Dungeons not required.

The problem imho isn’t the droprate but the quantity of items that can drop. Looking at the WoW boss in the link above, he can drop 178 different items, most of it quite good (in GW2 terms: specific exotic stuff). A lot of good items have a droprate above 5% up to 20%… in GW2 on the other hand exotics are still really rare.

PS: what adds to this is the “seen droprate”. What I’m trying to say: In WoW you see the drops of 25 people, then you roll the dice for these items. You might not get a lot, but it looks like you have a quit good chance of getting something.

You seem to forget a few huge things in your comparison.

1 In WoW you can farm that one boss to get the item you want what by itself is more fun because you are more directly working for an item. (Most important of it all if you ask me)

2 In WoW you can farm that one boss to get the item you want meaning when it drops you get the item you want. In GW2 yes you did get a Ascended Gear Box, very nice.. if it does have the stats you need.
There are 18 possible stats so 1 Ascended Gear box drops from 1251 boxes but the change you have the stat you want is then 1/18 so to be sure you get the drop you want it’s not 1 / 1251 but 1 / 22518
Still I don’t think the drop-rate itself is the most important thing, it’s the form of grind. In GW2 much is gold-grind in WoW it’s more farming for a specific item.

3 This fact is hard to use as a comparison because we don’t know the exact drop-rate from GW2 but if you have a drop-rate of 0,06 that would be 1 in 1754 but that means that when you are playing that at 877 runs you already had 50% change it dropped and after that the change it drops becomes bigger then that it does not drop. So to get an idea of when it drops you should always half the number you get when knowing the drop-rate.

4 In WoW that might be the case for the BiS items but in GW2 the problem is that everything is a grind. Not only the BIS but everything, and not just a grind but a gold-grind. So a very boring one.

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love what they did with the Marionette: give key-fragments for participating in the event and combine those to keys which open various chests. It’s really fun to open those chests again and again and again, even though it’s mostly greens.

What I’d like to see as a further evolution of this: combine all the 5 keys to open a new chest which has at least a guaranteed rare and a good shot at (some) exotics (+ a really good chance for something non-combaty – like the Mini)

This is exactly what I consider boring. It’ early the same as grinding gold and then buying it (or in your example buying the change to get it). It’s a currency grind and the key-fragments are the currency.

It’s not bad to have something like that as an ‘extra’ (without the change part) so you know that when you do it you will always get rewarded for it (like the tokens in dungeons) but at the same time there should also be some unique drops that are not related to a currency.

But then again, I don’t like how the world-bosses work. To much depended on people you don’t know and the kitten timer of 2 hours. Better make it a instance raid dungeon.
That makes it more tactical organized play in stead of luck to be with a good group of players. But of-course the marionette would also drops those things when just participating so thats a little different.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Devata.6589:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Neural.1824:

~

I was going to post something but this blows anything I could write up out of the water.

Yeah that post from Neural and Dark Catalyst reaction on it pretty much sums it up all.

It’s why I dislike the focus on micro-transactions so much. I also made a thread about the focus on micro-transactions to basically say exactly this.

But some people seem to not want to see it.

What is really mind-numbing is when you go to the threads where they ask “how much money did you spend on gems”. People are there very proudly telling the spend hundred of dollars on gems.

Like it gives them any status (this is also what the prices are all about Anet gives to gem-buyers. Make them feel special) and how they are helping to support there game.

While they fail to see they they simply can’t handle money, monetize people are just using those sort of people (as milk cows) to get money out of there wallets and in fact they are not helping to support the game but helping to destroy it. Because without such people the game would not have been such a gem-store focus (as it would not work) what only could benefit the games quality.

Yeah. GW2 was my first, and last, “free to play” game because the cash shop left such a bad taste in my mouth. It’s why I prefer to just pay a sub and have access to everything instead if getting nickel and dimed on things like bag slots and bank tabs.

Honestly, I should’ve followed my intuition when I first started. I remember feeling disappointed when I found out you had to buy bag slots and with the way items pile up I quickly found myself hurting for space. I gave it a shot anyway, because hey! No sub.

Yeah well I have never been a fan of F2P but I was interested in GW2 because they put it on the market as B2P and ArenaNet had a very good name for using a expansion-based model with GW2.

I’m not a big fan of sub because it puts a timer above your head. I did try it for a while but then I payed for a month and then did not feel like playing after a week. Then 3 weeks later I did feel like playing again but the month was over.

So I’m a very bid advocate for expansion-based models, no timer above your head and the ability to deliver a high-quality product like sub-games can as well. Thats what pulled me to GW2 but then it turned out to be just a micro-transaction based game like the many F2P games out there.

Lets hope that GW2 changes it’s way or else maybe another good MMORPG game will use the expansion-based game. However I am not somebody who switches form the one to the other MMO all the time.

For me, i hate that rng affects crafting. I don’t know how many mats i have to waste before getting something for my class, and yeah i know the AH has everything… that’s another problem in itself that ruins the need for crafting or making money for that matter 1s for a level 40 helm, why bother do anything if i can just buy the gear

RNG in guild wars 2 is actually not bad. it’s passable. Other than the Mystic Forge, rng isn’t a big issue.

Compare it to the last MMO i was invested in, AION.
OO that RNG was really something. It was so bad a good chunk of players ragequit.

The crafting was so painful. and what sucked was armor get getting outdated within 6 months cause new gear would come out or level cap would increase requiring more RNG grinding. :/ (can go into details but this is guild wars not aion :p)

Yaj.5973:

RNG in guild wars 2 is actually not bad. it’s passable. Other than the Mystic Forge, rng isn’t a big issue.

Compare it to the last MMO i was invested in, AION.
OO that RNG was really something. It was so bad a good chunk of players ragequit.

The crafting was so painful. and what sucked was armor get getting outdated within 6 months cause new gear would come out or level cap would increase requiring more RNG grinding. :/ (can go into details but this is guild wars not aion :p)

This goes back to just because B is worse than A, doesn’t mean A is okay.

Devata.6589:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Neural.1824:

The RNG and grind in GW2 is mind-numbing. NCSoft and Anet are obsessed with squeezing as much money out of the playerbase as possible in the shortest amount of time. The end result is a game that comes across as kitten in the “finished product” department, and a loot system and economy built soley on the push to get players to open their wallets. For the majority who fall on the “lose” side of the kitten RNG, everything is a grind. Want T6 mats? Grind gold to buy them. Want a special skin? Grind gold to buy it. Want a mini? Grind gold to buy it.
The entire game is focused on forcing people to grind for gold, and it is deliberately designed that way. They are creating a high pressure environment where the only thing that matters is gold, because psychologically it has been proven to bring in more real cash.
You know why we don’t have a large number of emotes/animations? Because they were seen as superfelous to the end goal of making money. They were additional development work that was seen as “no cash flow”. Same applies for fixing a number of QoL issues. The Monetization Lords see it as a waste of time because players aren’t leaving the game over it and it doesn’t bring in more money.
By design everything is forced into being an issue of gold. Diminishing Returns is not about bots, it never has been. It’s about limiting loot drops so that players need more gold to buy the items they want, because needing more gold is another pressure to open the wallet and just buy gold.
Then there’s the “urgency” pressure. They introduce gem and gold valued items that are only a round for a short period of time. “buy now, or miss out!”. People feel pressure to open their wallet to get that item they want. RNG plays a massive part in this. “Buy black lion keys with gems and you could get a Black Lion Claim Ticket!”. Anet is actively, and knowingly, feeding off of people who have money and don’t know they have a gambling addiction. It’s worse than gambling, in fact, because all the items are virtual and have no real value. So people are not even gambling real money to get a possible cash prize.
Every aspect of it works together to apply as much pressure as possible on the players to pay real money.

Yes, Anet needs to make money to stay in business. What they are doing however is abuse. It needs to stop.

I was going to post something but this blows anything I could write up out of the water.

Yeah that post from Neural and Dark Catalyst reaction on it pretty much sums it up all.

It’s why I dislike the focus on micro-transactions so much. I also made a thread about the focus on micro-transactions to basically say exactly this.

But some people seem to not want to see it.

What is really mind-numbing is when you go to the threads where they ask “how much money did you spend on gems”. People are there very proudly telling the spend hundred of dollars on gems.

Like it gives them any status (this is also what the prices are all about Anet gives to gem-buyers. Make them feel special) and how they are helping to support there game.

While they fail to see they they simply can’t handle money, monetize people are just using those sort of people (as milk cows) to get money out of there wallets and in fact they are not helping to support the game but helping to destroy it. Because without such people the game would not have been such a gem-store focus (as it would not work) what only could benefit the games quality.

I saw your thread ages ago on the BLTC forums, I think. It was pretty well written and quite extensive, admittedly.

In any case. A quote on topic;

In the wise words of my father, “It is not games that are loyal to gamers, but gamers that are loyal to games..”

Devata.6589:

Neural.1824:

Suddenflame.2601:

DR was introduced due to bots. I was playing back then. Not sure if you were, but there was a lot of bots back then. DR if your being hit with it you really need to rethink what your doing cause it doesn’t kick in for hours of you playing in place without logging out and switching zones. Also, you aware there is more and more games having RNG boxes. WoW from what i am aware is going to add them if they have not already. So do not think this is just Anet. It is only pressure if you allow it to be. If you allow it pressure you should go get checked out by a councilor or a therapist for an addiction issue.

As a few people pointed out they do not feel pressured but if you do then you have a problem that should seek professional help with it. I have missed dailies, LS, and other things without much of a care as I do not feel pressured to keep playing. If I was paying a subscription fee i would feel pressured to play to get my moneys worth. Since GW2 does not have you should not feel pressured.

I’m not really in the mood to answer this but I will try to do so clearly. First, it’s clear that you are the type who will never be shown any other way than what you think is true. That much is obvious from your comments on this and other threads where you are given plenty of evidence contrary to your statements but you continually argue semantics.

Thats not completely true. He already agreed in this topic that indeed there is a lot of grind while his OP was about exactly the opposite.

However it’s now about if grind is worse then the possible ‘fragmentation’ expansions would give and that grind has been there since the beginning (still fail to see how that makes it better). But he did agree that indeed there was a lot of grind. So I can’t say he does not want to see anything else that is original idea.

A lot of grind for cosmetics as intended and told there would be. Grind for ascended is not bad at all which is the point your trying to hijack the thread for your personal agenda of trying to change the entire game that was in place from the start. BiS grind is what I am talking about and its not that bad.

Also, Legendaries do not stick out when every time i go into an FOTM there is always at least 1 or more people with a legendary. Some actually have 4 legendaries. Other weapons are a lot less common and stick out more than a legendary now. Such as some of the Mystic Forge weapons. There is actually threads about one of the weapons right now that requires hard to get materials.

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Lol, people with 2000 hours still don’t have one, let alone “their precursor” (aka one they’d want).

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Tell that to people who’ve played for 2,000-3,000 hours and still don’t have one. It’s ridiculous.

Devata.6589:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love what they did with the Marionette: give key-fragments for participating in the event and combine those to keys which open various chests. It’s really fun to open those chests again and again and again, even though it’s mostly greens.

What I’d like to see as a further evolution of this: combine all the 5 keys to open a new chest which has at least a guaranteed rare and a good shot at (some) exotics (+ a really good chance for something non-combaty – like the Mini)

This is exactly what I consider boring. It’ early the same as grinding gold and then buying it (or in your example buying the change to get it). It’s a currency grind and the key-fragments are the currency.

It’s not bad to have something like that as an ‘extra’ (without the change part) so you know that when you do it you will always get rewarded for it (like the tokens in dungeons) but at the same time there should also be some unique drops that are not related to a currency.

But then again, I don’t like how the world-bosses work. To much depended on people you don’t know and the kitten timer of 2 hours. Better make it a instance raid dungeon.
That makes it more tactical organized play in stead of luck to be with a good group of players. But of-course the marionette would also drops those things when just participating so thats a little different.

Unique drops not related to currency : Teq weapons (marionette does not have unique due to not being permanent)

Those tactical raids are in other games so if you want them go play them. GW2 so far has been trying things that have not been tried really before (a few things have been tried before, but were not as developed). Such as the no quest system where everything relies on the events. Some people like this system and some didn’t cause they didn’t have a clue what to do. From what I seen this is also causing issue of end-game. Without quests to guide people in end-game they don’t have a clue what to do. Every other game that has an end-game its either a gear-treadmill, repetitive quests, PvP, Raids (which are repetitive quests and gear treadmill mostly), minigames, etc. If i missed something that other end-games have in other games do tell.

I personally like the event system cause I do what I want to do in the end-game not what I am directed to do.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Tell that to people who’ve played for 2,000-3,000 hours and still don’t have one. It’s ridiculous.

I am because I am one of those people. So what’s your point? I havn’t seen a precursor drop. My cousin got his precursor drop back in Novmember 2012.

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Lol, people with 2000 hours still don’t have one, let alone “their precursor” (aka one they’d want).

If it isn’t one they want most are closely the same cost (expect underwater ones) they can just sell it and then buy the one they want. Problem Solved

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Lol, people with 2000 hours still don’t have one, let alone “their precursor” (aka one they’d want).

If it isn’t one they want most are closely the same cost (expect underwater ones) they can just sell it and then buy the one they want. Problem Solved

Pretty sure even land ones range from 300-1000g? Then count the water ones. Yeah it’s not the same. >_>:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Lol, people with 2000 hours still don’t have one, let alone “their precursor” (aka one they’d want).

If it isn’t one they want most are closely the same cost (expect underwater ones) they can just sell it and then buy the one they want. Problem Solved

Pretty sure even land ones range from 300-1000g? Then count the water ones. Yeah it’s not the same. >_>:

From what i seen the GS, pistol, sword, staff, rifle and dagger cost close to the same. The offhands are also close to each other. Those are the only ones i know at the moment (havn’t looked at the rest really).

I just dropped another batch of greatswords into the forge and nothing, again. For everyone who has had luck in gw2 I say congrats! I for one however, have never had a precursor drop in open play, wvw, dungeons, or through the mystic forge, and I’ve thrown A LOT of weapons into the forge… My sample size is strong. So maybe if those of you who have had “luck” in this game had say, my “luck” you’d be as angry as I sound.

RNG makes some happy, most furious.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Lol, people with 2000 hours still don’t have one, let alone “their precursor” (aka one they’d want).

If it isn’t one they want most are closely the same cost (expect underwater ones) they can just sell it and then buy the one they want. Problem Solved

Pretty sure even land ones range from 300-1000g? Then count the water ones. Yeah it’s not the same. >_>:

From what i seen the GS, pistol, sword, staff, rifle and dagger cost close to the same. The offhands are also close to each other. Those are the only ones i know at the moment (havn’t looked at the rest really).

Pistol is half as valuable as the others you listed, not that any of ythis matters, I’d love a pistol, hell I’d love an underwater pre, ANYTHING at this point.

Aidenwolf.5964:

I just dropped another batch of greatswords into the forge and nothing, again. For everyone who has had luck in gw2 I say congrats! I for one however, have never had a precursor drop in open play, wvw, dungeons, or through the mystic forge, and I’ve thrown A LOT of weapons into the forge… My sample size is strong. So maybe if those of you who have had “luck” in this game had say, my “luck” you’d be as angry as I sound.

RNG makes some happy, most furious.

RNG is RNG if there wasn’t RNG what would the point of getting that sword? Everyone would have it as it would be guaranteed. I have seen some good ideas of how they should change it to allow guaranteed drop of the sword, but instead it would kitten off people who are not skilled enough to complete the content.

Also, what is the rush to get the weapon?

Aidenwolf.5964:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Lol, people with 2000 hours still don’t have one, let alone “their precursor” (aka one they’d want).

If it isn’t one they want most are closely the same cost (expect underwater ones) they can just sell it and then buy the one they want. Problem Solved

Pretty sure even land ones range from 300-1000g? Then count the water ones. Yeah it’s not the same. >_>:

From what i seen the GS, pistol, sword, staff, rifle and dagger cost close to the same. The offhands are also close to each other. Those are the only ones i know at the moment (havn’t looked at the rest really).

Pistol is half as valuable as the others you listed, not that any of ythis matters, I’d love a pistol, hell I’d love an underwater pre, ANYTHING at this point.

Sounding a bit desperate for a precursor drop. I have had ascended weapon drop (from a WvW tower champ) but no exotic worth over 3g drop. My luck on that regards is dreadful with over 2000 hours played. If you play for fun not just to be rewarded than its more fun.

Also for other people who talk about loot you are guaranteed loot on world bosses and champions. The issue people have is that its not the loot they wanted but most games just don’t give you the loot your want all the time. World bosses you even get a guaranteed rare once per day per boss.

For reasons (others already mentioned) grind and RNG is horrible in this game, cause
it’s an aimless grind.
You just grind Gold in order to get what you want, you cant really “farm” something, cause everything drops anywhere and yet nowhere.
The most secure income is running around in a Champ train, cause there at least you get a guaranteed yield of about 5-7g/hour, though this is insanely stupid.

Crafting is something they could have left out, it feels like “Ohhh every MMO nowadays has a crafting system …. so implement some just for the hell of it”
GW1 had none, never missed it.

The biggest mistake was, that Anet themselfes became gold sellers (I understand why they did it, but still was a mistake) cause the ingame / realmoney connenction implies that drop rates have to be low.
Drops where much better over a year ago.

And btw I played a lot of MMORPGS starting with UO, which is a lot more hard core than nowaday-MMOs and a lot more Sandbox-like.

Ah and considering Tequatl, if you do an organized Tequatl run you have to be on the server an hour before the event begins, else you are on overFLAW and fail.
And if you defeat him, you get completely random stuff.
Okay maybe I shouldnt complain about drop rates there, cause i got 2 ascended weapon boxes there (in around 50 kills), of course both with stats so useless, that i had rather gotten a rare item, which would at least be 25s at TP.

Ah and before I forget it, the funny thing is, the most “profitable” way to play the game is not playing the game at all, it is playing with the TP, somethings imbalanced there.
Okay even more effective is going to work, earn some real money, and then convert to gems.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

Neural.1824:

Suddenflame.2601:

~

I’m not really in the mood to answer this but I will try to do so clearly. First, it’s clear that you are the type who will never be shown any other way than what you think is true. That much is obvious from your comments on this and other threads where you are given plenty of evidence contrary to your statements but you continually argue semantics.

Thats not completely true. He already agreed in this topic that indeed there is a lot of grind while his OP was about exactly the opposite.

However it’s now about if grind is worse then the possible ‘fragmentation’ expansions would give and that grind has been there since the beginning (still fail to see how that makes it better). But he did agree that indeed there was a lot of grind. So I can’t say he does not want to see anything else that is original idea.

A lot of grind for cosmetics as intended and told there would be. Grind for ascended is not bad at all which is the point your trying to hijack the thread for your personal agenda of trying to change the entire game that was in place from the start. BiS grind is what I am talking about and its not that bad.

Also, Legendaries do not stick out when every time i go into an FOTM there is always at least 1 or more people with a legendary. Some actually have 4 legendaries. Other weapons are a lot less common and stick out more than a legendary now. Such as some of the Mystic Forge weapons. There is actually threads about one of the weapons right now that requires hard to get materials.

Lol, there are many people complaining about how grindy GW2 is. You make a thread about it saying it’s not grindy. I show that it is very much a gold grind for many players (you even had to agree) and then you say I hijack the thread for my personal agenda and try to change the entire game.

All I did was point out that in many ways it is very grindy. Complaining about ascended grind I leave to other people because thats not something I care much for myself.

Also you say again that Anet said this would be grindy. No they did not say it would be an endless grind of temporary achievements and gold gold lots of gold to get your cosmetics. I am not asking to get all cosmetics just handed to me, just don’t want the gold-grind.

That you can’t understand that people have different things they like and so the grind-problem is not only restricted to your personal game-play (stats) might be but then you should not complain that people complain about grind because there is a lot of grind.

Legendaries then, yes there are many legendaries these days but whats your point? I never said anything about them not being in the game, I said it was all gold grind. Most people who have a legendary did not farm the needed mats, they had to grind gold to buy the mats (or buy gold with money). So it was very much a grind.

I want to change the whole game? I want to see the grind go yes. Like the many people complaining about grind. You know all those complains about grind that triggered you to create this thread.

Also about you saying I want to change the game because I want expansion-based model and that would split the community.
Have a read:
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/15/guild-wars-2-to-avoid-retail-mmo-expansion-model/
Here they talk about your fragmentation. Thats about standalone expansion model. Not about the normal expansions.

And here:
http://www.videogamer.com/news/guild_wars_2_expansions_a_sure_thing_says_arenanet_2.html
They say they want expansions and “Guild Wars 2, the upcoming MMORPG from ArenaNet, will be supported with retail expansions, design lead Eric Flannum has confirmed to VideoGamer.com. ”.
As you can see yes they would have mico-transaction to also generate income in-between expansions (thats not something I ever denied, I only said there focus to generate income should be expansions so the push towards the cash-shop needed to be lees and there would be less need to make it this grindy) but they would also want to use expansions to keep supporting the game.

So your whole idea that I want to change the game to a game that is based on expansions while it was never planned to have expansions is nonsense. They did plan that but seem to have shifted away from it.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

laokoko.7403:

You dont’ need to grind anything. Just play the game normally. Most people can make 10 gold easily by just playing the game.

In 2 month you can have your precursor by just playing the game.

The way I like to play is to hunt for the item. Thats how I play a game. Not but just doing some stuff to get gold (also knows as grinding) to then buy the item I want. Thats not fun. Or at least not for the people who have a similar game-play style as me and complain about the grind..

Precursors you can’t hunt for because they are intended to be able to be gained by any type of player (expect a PVP player). Play normally and you will get your precursor eventually.

Like I said before, many of the mats you don’t get by playing normal and you even don’t get by farming the mats because you can’t just farm them.

Btw, if the legendary where the only weapons / skin that would require this much of grind I would not mind. It’s the fact that a lot requires a grind.

I have been playing this game from headstart (and beta before that.) I have at least 2K hours (probably more) in-game. I have 2 80’s and 6 other characters ranging in level from 20-65. I could have had more 80’s, but I was having way too much fun with the ones I already have. I am maxed in most of the crafting (still need huntsman and tailoring) and I have played every profession at least once. I think my experience in game is pretty well rounded.

I have formed an opinion about GW2 RNG and for better or worse, here it is:

Many people still have the idea that the more you try, the more likely it is that you will get it. In reality, it is not like that at all. If you have a 1 in 10,000 chance to get a particular item, it means that the chances of getting that particular item is the same on the 10,000th time you try as it they are on the first. This is why your friend can get a precursor in one try while you have to spend untold amounts of gold in the MF and still not get it.

The main problem is that the chances need to be tweaked. Not enough to ruin the already inflated economy, but enough so that there is a reasonable chance.

I would be much more willing to part with some of my gold if I knew the exact odds.

Right now, I might as well be playing Powerball (actual odds from their website are 1 in 175,223,510.) Unfortunately, it cost more than a couple bucks (gold) to play the precursor lottery.

In my case, getting a precursor is not something I am actively pursuing. If I have a couple extra things, I’ll toss them into the MF and see what happens, but there are way too many other pursuits that interest me more.

Suddenflame.2601:

Devata.6589:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

I love what they did with the Marionette: give key-fragments for participating in the event and combine those to keys which open various chests. It’s really fun to open those chests again and again and again, even though it’s mostly greens.

What I’d like to see as a further evolution of this: combine all the 5 keys to open a new chest which has at least a guaranteed rare and a good shot at (some) exotics (+ a really good chance for something non-combaty – like the Mini)

This is exactly what I consider boring. It’ nearly the same as grinding gold and then buying it (or in your example buying the change to get it). It’s a currency grind and the key-fragments are the currency.

It’s not bad to have something like that as an ‘extra’ (without the change part) so you know that when you do it you will always get rewarded for it (like the tokens in dungeons) but at the same time there should also be some unique drops that are not related to a currency.

But then again, I don’t like how the world-bosses work. To much depended on people you don’t know and the kitten timer of 2 hours. Better make it a instance raid dungeon.
That makes it more tactical organized play in stead of luck to be with a good group of players. But of-course the marionette would also drops those things when just participating so thats a little different.

Unique drops not related to currency : Teq weapons (marionette does not have unique due to not being permanent)

Those tactical raids are in other games so if you want them go play them. GW2 so far has been trying things that have not been tried really before (a few things have been tried before, but were not as developed). Such as the no quest system where everything relies on the events. Some people like this system and some didn’t cause they didn’t have a clue what to do. From what I seen this is also causing issue of end-game. Without quests to guide people in end-game they don’t have a clue what to do. Every other game that has an end-game its either a gear-treadmill, repetitive quests, PvP, Raids (which are repetitive quests and gear treadmill mostly), minigames, etc. If i missed something that other end-games have in other games do tell.

I personally like the event system cause I do what I want to do in the end-game not what I am directed to do.

Yeah I did point out that Teq also had a mini and it indeed also has some other specific drops. There are a few specific drops in the game. Sadly most are behind content that people farm anyway (so they fill the TP making it once again easier to grind gold to buy them, Yesterday I did buy a unique weapon drop from it for 1,5 gold) and like I said I don’t really like the world boss system simply because it does not work very well, in a way is exactly the same as those raid bosses in other games but here you are always forced to use pugs. Thats really the only difference.

“If i missed something that other end-games have in other games do tell.”
Going into the world to collect things you like. Like cosmetics and mini’s. Having crafts that take very long. Like fun-crafts. I did tell you this before.

Collecting those cosmetics and mini’s and recipe’s for the craft can send you all over the map letting you do a lot of content. That can be enough to keep you busy for a year maybe 2 years.

I like the event-system as well but would also think traditional quest would go good together with them.

Duran.3196:

For reasons (others already mentioned) grind and RNG is horrible in this game, cause
it’s an aimless grind.
You just grind Gold in order to get what you want, you cant really “farm” something, cause everything drops anywhere and yet nowhere.
The most secure income is running around in a Champ train, cause there at least you get a guaranteed yield of about 5-7g/hour, though this is insanely stupid.

Crafting is something they could have left out, it feels like “Ohhh every MMO nowadays has a crafting system …. so implement some just for the hell of it”
GW1 had none, never missed it.

The biggest mistake was, that Anet themselfes became gold sellers (I understand why they did it, but still was a mistake) cause the ingame / realmoney connenction implies that drop rates have to be low.
Drops where much better over a year ago.

And btw I played a lot of MMORPGS starting with UO, which is a lot more hard core than nowaday-MMOs and a lot more Sandbox-like.

Ah and considering Tequatl, if you do an organized Tequatl run you have to be on the server an hour before the event begins, else you are on overFLAW and fail.
And if you defeat him, you get completely random stuff.
Okay maybe I shouldnt complain about drop rates there, cause i got 2 ascended weapon boxes there (in around 50 kills), of course both with stats so useless, that i had rather gotten a rare item, which would at least be 25s at TP.

Ah and before I forget it, the funny thing is, the most “profitable” way to play the game is not playing the game at all, it is playing with the TP, somethings imbalanced there.
Okay even more effective is going to work, earn some real money, and then convert to gems.

I agree. It’s just more fun to farm for something specific then to grind gold to buy what you want.

Ashabhi.1365:

I have been playing this game from headstart (and beta before that.) I have at least 2K hours (probably more) in-game. I have 2 80’s and 6 other characters ranging in level from 20-65. I could have had more 80’s, but I was having way too much fun with the ones I already have. I am maxed in most of the crafting (still need huntsman and tailoring) and I have played every profession at least once. I think my experience in game is pretty well rounded.

I have formed an opinion about GW2 RNG and for better or worse, here it is:

Many people still have the idea that the more you try, the more likely it is that you will get it. In reality, it is not like that at all. If you have a 1 in 10,000 chance to get a particular item, it means that the chances of getting that particular item is the same on the 10,000th time you try as it they are on the first. This is why your friend can get a precursor in one try while you have to spend untold amounts of gold in the MF and still not get it.

The main problem is that the chances need to be tweaked. Not enough to ruin the already inflated economy, but enough so that there is a reasonable chance.

I would be much more willing to part with some of my gold if I knew the exact odds.

Right now, I might as well be playing Powerball (actual odds from their website are 1 in 175,223,510.) Unfortunately, it cost more than a couple bucks (gold) to play the precursor lottery.

In my case, getting a precursor is not something I am actively pursuing. If I have a couple extra things, I’ll toss them into the MF and see what happens, but there are way too many other pursuits that interest me more.

Of course every time you try again you have a 1/10,000 chance. However if you do it twice you changes of getting it are 2 times 1/10.000 because you did it twice, not because the second time there is a bigger change but because you did it 2 times. That is just math.

Anyway, the point is also.. is it fun to grind gold and get it, is it fun the toss things into the MF? Or is it more fun to activly hunt down the item without first grinding.

Of course you can get money while doing stuff you like but for many people hunting down those items is what they like. That is there end-content.

Devata.6589:

Ashabhi.1365:

I have been playing this game from headstart (and beta before that.) I have at least 2K hours (probably more) in-game. I have 2 80’s and 6 other characters ranging in level from 20-65. I could have had more 80’s, but I was having way too much fun with the ones I already have. I am maxed in most of the crafting (still need huntsman and tailoring) and I have played every profession at least once. I think my experience in game is pretty well rounded.

I have formed an opinion about GW2 RNG and for better or worse, here it is:

Many people still have the idea that the more you try, the more likely it is that you will get it. In reality, it is not like that at all. If you have a 1 in 10,000 chance to get a particular item, it means that the chances of getting that particular item is the same on the 10,000th time you try as it they are on the first. This is why your friend can get a precursor in one try while you have to spend untold amounts of gold in the MF and still not get it.

The main problem is that the chances need to be tweaked. Not enough to ruin the already inflated economy, but enough so that there is a reasonable chance.

I would be much more willing to part with some of my gold if I knew the exact odds.

Right now, I might as well be playing Powerball (actual odds from their website are 1 in 175,223,510.) Unfortunately, it cost more than a couple bucks (gold) to play the precursor lottery.

In my case, getting a precursor is not something I am actively pursuing. If I have a couple extra things, I’ll toss them into the MF and see what happens, but there are way too many other pursuits that interest me more.

Of course every time you try again you have a 1/10,000 chance. However if you do it twice you changes of getting it are 2 times 1/10.000 because you did it twice, not because the second time there is a bigger change but because you did it 2 times. That is just math.

Anyway, the point is also.. is it fun to grind gold and get it, is it fun the toss things into the MF? Or is it more fun to activly hunt down the item without first grinding.

Of course you can get money while doing stuff you like but for many people hunting down those items is what they like. That is there end-content.

i think this is the biggest flaw with dev strategy, they build their reward systems around the economy, and not the gameplay. They expect people to get gold to buy what they want, which leads to gold hunting being the main game mode. Combine this with the most profitable tasks are going to be the easy/repetitive ones. It made sense in theory, make it so all tasks are equally rewarding and make it so few things are directly huntable, this way people trade get gold and buy what they want doing anything. However since it boils down to gold, whatever gets the most gold is the best answer, hence people work on whatever is current best gold farm, and have to buy what they want. essentially work for a paycheck, buy your item. Not really that adventurous.

They didnt realize that a great many people playing rpg/adventure games like to hunt/aim for/obtain items/skills etc.

Suddenflame.2601:

ronpierce.2760:

Just because some games have even worse designers doesn’t make the rng and grind in gw2 acceptable…. It just means it’s not the worst contender. Also GW2 is aimed for a us/eu audience, the audiences who least enjoy long terrible grinds.

Name one MMORPG that has better RNG and grind?

The Secret World
Defiance
Rift
Ace Online
Anarchy Online
Champions Online
Firefall
Guildwars
Marvel Heroes
Neverwinter

Just some off the top of my head with better RNG than Guildwars 2, some obviously have other “issues” but they are way less RNG heavy..