Guild Wars 2

If raids end up with combat where every part of the team needs to play well, as in Marionette where players were split into platforms and had to complete objectives in small groups, they’ll be a good addition.

If they end up like the bosses in Battle for LA and three-headed wurm where it’s just a DPS test, then they won’t.

GW2 requires a lot more skill in small group play than it does in zergs, and thus content that requires multiple teams to co-ordinate effectively is more satisfying to play. The open-world content lately has encouraged that, though now that most have given up on T6 in Dry Top it’s devolved back to zerging bosses in Prospect Valley for loot bags. Marionette was more equitable; Tequatl too, I suspect, though I only played it once. When I’m being asked to buy full armour, weapon, accessory and consumable sets just to optimise DPS against a glorified state machine AI, I tend to walk the other way.

There are two things that a raid system would have to address: providing roles for more cerebral gameplay than just hitting for big numbers, and equivalent rewards for each role.

Asgaeroth.6427:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Raids in GW2… I might actually come back to the game if they are well done.

A couple things need to happen though:

1. PvP and PvE balance will need to be separated
2. Condition specs will need to be fixed
3. Raids must be instanced and challenging
4. Raids must be no larger than 15 people

If those 4 things are done then I think raids could be a big boon for GW2.

I don’t see the point in limiting it to 15 people. Kind of a ridiculous notion to me. Scaling would be more appropriate.

I would hope that they’d use some of the coding time on a raid system to refine the squad system into a proper raid group system with some party management options for the commander.

Scaling doesn’t work, it was a flawed concept. It gets a pass in the open world since no one really cares, but it would never be acceptable in a raiding environment.

NoTrigger.8396:

Malevil.2104:

NoTrigger.8396:

as if it would change anything. he believes he is the most important person on planet earth and only his opinion counts.

Are you sure you are not speaking about yourself ? Because then it would fit.

It is you, who has problem to understand that there is significant portion of playerbase who don’t want WoW style raiding not because of difficulty, but because of time commitment it brings. For you it might be win, for others end. Win – win for ANet ? Definetly not !

where did i say i want WoW style raiding?

and your post can be easily turned around.
its you who has a problem to understand that a significant portion of the player base wants challenging content.

look, if its optional content with optional rewards and without a gear treadmill you wont be forced to play it, you wont be forced to rush it for better gear. so where exactly is your problem?

when 100% of the game is easy and little bit of content could be made for those who want challenge, why are you complaining? where is the time commitment?
why is it right when you are complaining and why is it wrong when people are complaining because the game is lacking challenge?

Beldin.5498:

So now all exciting skins are locked behind 5 man doing 10 Lupis .. or even weapons
that do 50 percent more damage so that you can beat 20 Lupis in the next harder encounter.

nobody was talking about a gear treadmill.
and how could “all” exiting skins be locked behind a raid?

one thing i dont understand is why you have such a big problem with raids but on the other hand you dont complain about legendary weapon prizes for PvP tournaments.

Beldin.5498:

Bunnikk.2146:

TL;DR Raiding is about more than upping the party size, it is a true team effort that requires organization and effort from everyone to gain the rewards deserving of that time and effort. I don’t know if anet would actually want to implement this if their true target is casual players.

I also simply don’t see it working here without trinity .. at least not that it would either
still be just a zerg-fest .. or they just add so unfair mechanisms to it that it would
only be beatable by a really small amount of players.

decrease the autoattack damage of bosses and give them more abilities/focus on the mechanics behind the boss fight = no need for a trinity.

and what exactly is “unfair”? is unfair something that is too difficult for you?

why cant there be content for every type of player?

look i made something for you guys.
the first picture shows gw2 at the moment.
the second picture shows gw2 with the addition of raids.
where is the problem now?

“Unfair” for me is something like randome 1-hit kills .. thats in my eyes just a fake-difficulty .. however i’ve seen it so often in MMOs that in the end when people ask for more challenge it always comes to more damage and more HPs of the mobs .. and yeah .. random 1-hit kills.

As an old Diablo 2 Hardcore player my main challenge is to die as seldom as possible,
and for that reason i simply hate these kind of challenge.

Also to make it clear .. i have no problemls with stuff like :
-Liadri
-Tripple Wurm
-New Aetherpath

They can also add more of that kind .. even better drop-rates for things like the
Atherpath weapons .. as long as they are tradeable .. and in case of World Bosses
as long as they are NEW bosses .. and not something like turning Claw of Jormag
into another Shatterer.

Also .. one of my main gripes with harder content, as long as it is not Solo stuff like
Liadri, is that the main problems are organisation, and that you have maybe to play
with people you don’t really like to beat it .. the people i played a lot with in other
MMOs were mostly by far worse players than myself .. but i simply prefered playing
with people i had “fun” with instead of playing with people i don’t had so much
fun with .. just for the sake of beat harder content (easier)

And hey .. don’t you have experienced it yourself in Wildstar what the problems were
with raiding ? Either don’t find the right people .. or having to deal with ex-WoW Elitists ?

Beldin.5498:

And hey .. don’t you have experienced it yourself in Wildstar what the problems were
with raiding ? Either don’t find the right people .. or having to deal with ex-WoW Elitists ?

there is no problems with raiding. there is only problems with some peoples mentality. but that doesnt make me run to my mom and cry.

NoTrigger.8396:

Beldin.5498:

And hey .. don’t you have experienced it yourself in Wildstar what the problems were
with raiding ? Either don’t find the right people .. or having to deal with ex-WoW Elitists ?

there is no problems with raiding. there is only problems with some peoples mentality. but that doesnt make me run to my mom and cry.

Doesn’t make me do it either, but it does make certain things enter the “might as well not exist” for me.

Like Fractals.

Now this is really interesting!
I’ve always wanted bigger parties in dungeons and fractals and even normal parties..
I’m glad! So much fun!
Just like back in GW1, during Urgoz’s Warren and The Deep.

Interesting to see how they do raids in the absence of any real roles.

NoTrigger.8396:

Beldin.5498:

And hey .. don’t you have experienced it yourself in Wildstar what the problems were
with raiding ? Either don’t find the right people .. or having to deal with ex-WoW Elitists ?

there is no problems with raiding. there is only problems with some peoples mentality. but that doesnt make me run to my mom and cry.

Indeed it does .. since your back here and crying for harder content instead of playing
Wildstar where you have it .. but people wouldn’t play with you because you don’t
met the “WoW gear-check”

And yepp .. the “some peoples mentality” is the main problem for me with harder
content in MMOs. And the more people you need .. the higher the chance you have
to deal with “some peoples mentality” that annoys you .. thats why i prefer to solo
or maybe duo / trio .. sadly there is no content for 2-3 people.

Was great in EQ2 before Rise of Kunark when we could at least do dungeons that
were 10 level lower with 2-3 and had still a chance of useable master books .. sadly
that was removed with changing spell progression from 13 to 10 levels

Beldin.5498:

NoTrigger.8396:

Beldin.5498:

And hey .. don’t you have experienced it yourself in Wildstar what the problems were
with raiding ? Either don’t find the right people .. or having to deal with ex-WoW Elitists ?

there is no problems with raiding. there is only problems with some peoples mentality. but that doesnt make me run to my mom and cry.

Indeed it does .. since your back here and crying for harder content instead of playing
Wildstar where you have it .. but people wouldn’t play with you because you don’t
met the “WoW gear-check”

And yepp .. the “some peoples mentality” is the main problem for me with harder
content in MMOs. And the more people you need .. the higher the chance you have
to deal with “some peoples mentality” that annoys you .. thats why i prefer to solo
or maybe duo / trio .. sadly there is no content for 2-3 people.

Was great in EQ2 before Rise of Kunark when we could at least do dungeons that
were 10 level lower with 2-3 and had still a chance of useable master books .. sadly
that was removed with changing spell progression from 13 to 10 levels

just for your info im playing both games.
in wildstar there isnt alot to do outside of raids atm. thats why i play gw2 when im not raiding in wildstar. if gw2 had the raid content that wildstar has, it would be perfect and i wouldnt be playing another game for the challenge.

its about time that you stop talking so much crap. if you dont wanna deal with peoples mentality play a single player game.

and im not crying for harder content. i am talking about it. but since this thread gets flooded by waves of tears from egoistic players it probably doesnt make alot of sense.

what i have learned from this thread:
the people who dont want raid content dont want it because:
- they are lazy
- they refuse to learn and improve
- they lack social skills
- they are lacking thick skin
- they cant deal with other players wishes
- they dont want to grant other players something
- they are egoistic
- they are allergic to seeing other players with special rewards that show that they have beaten the content
- they dont want to spend time and effort to strive for something and achieve it
- they prefer to play single player games and therefore dont want to see raid content in a multiplayer game
- “unfair” is now used to say “content that is too difficult for my skill level”

I agree with new harder content for the non casual players. We need more of this kind of thing in gw2 since almost everything is very easy and can be overcome with berzerker gear and people stacking. We need to have harder content with unique mechanics that involves learning to give some kind of long term goal to players who are getting bored of facerolling through most of the current “hardcore” content. I’d say put a very specific loot table for this content, such as skins and new exotic/ascended gear. I do not say that we should instantly grant players with this loot upon completion, but more like a possible drop on boss kill or bonus chest and make it so we can only get it through this content.

We need more unique “prestige” stuff that makes players aspire to something greater. For example, the Obsidian Armor in gw1 showed that a player went through the FoW content and made me want to learn the content so I could end up with this end game elite armor.

NoTrigger.8396:

Beldin.5498:

NoTrigger.8396:

Beldin.5498:

And hey .. don’t you have experienced it yourself in Wildstar what the problems were
with raiding ? Either don’t find the right people .. or having to deal with ex-WoW Elitists ?

there is no problems with raiding. there is only problems with some peoples mentality. but that doesnt make me run to my mom and cry.

Indeed it does .. since your back here and crying for harder content instead of playing
Wildstar where you have it .. but people wouldn’t play with you because you don’t
met the “WoW gear-check”

And yepp .. the “some peoples mentality” is the main problem for me with harder
content in MMOs. And the more people you need .. the higher the chance you have
to deal with “some peoples mentality” that annoys you .. thats why i prefer to solo
or maybe duo / trio .. sadly there is no content for 2-3 people.

Was great in EQ2 before Rise of Kunark when we could at least do dungeons that
were 10 level lower with 2-3 and had still a chance of useable master books .. sadly
that was removed with changing spell progression from 13 to 10 levels

just for your info im playing both games.
in wildstar there isnt alot to do outside of raids atm. thats why i play gw2 when im not raiding in wildstar. if gw2 had the raid content that wildstar has, it would be perfect and i wouldnt be playing another game for the challenge.

its about time that you stop talking so much crap. if you dont wanna deal with peoples mentality play a single player game.

and im not crying for harder content. i am talking about it. but since this thread gets flooded by waves of tears from egoistic players it probably doesnt make alot of sense.

what i have learned from this thread:
the people who dont want raid content dont want it because:
- they are lazy
- they refuse to learn and improve
- they lack social skills
- they are lacking thick skin
- they cant deal with other players wishes
- they dont want to grant other players something
- they are egoistic
- they are allergic to seeing other players with special rewards that show that they have beaten the content
- they dont want to spend time and effort to strive for something and achieve it
- they prefer to play single player games and therefore dont want to see raid content in a multiplayer game
- “unfair” is now used to say “content that is too difficult for my skill level”

Except that is largely the kind of person GW2 is made for.

People play GW2 because they don’t like or don’t have time for raid focused games. I know you and others would do it just for the challenge but most would only do it for tangible rewards, preferably exclusive ones. Anet knows this and will put them in, that is a fact. That kind of thing irks people who bought and play GW2 because it was the kind of game where casual play could get you what you wanted, even if it took a really long time. Hardcore raids don’t allow casuals to have easy access.

It wouldn’t bother me if Anet put in hard dungeon/raid content. I’m not a big dungeon fan in GW2 though I loved them in FF14. Probably has more to do with the no trinity, everyone’s DPS silliness, who knows…

But, I can see where people are coming from. It’s the same kind of reason I stopped playing FF14. It was a gorgeous game with a great team and gameplay but it was all raids all the time. There was nothing else worth logging in for unless one was insane and actually “enjoyed” Relic Weapon grind. Eventually it stopped being something I could enjoy because I didn’t have time in my life to dedicate to forming statics for coil runs or doing EX primals over and over till I memorized their patterns well enough to not mess it up for everyone else. Paying $15 a month training to have fun was just not worth it in the end.

Substance E.4852:

….

i didnt want to respond nor read the thread anymore so this will be my last response.
there are a few things i want to comment on and ask you.

Substance E.4852:

People play GW2 because they don’t like or don’t have time for raid focused games
.

are you aware of the fact that there are also people who play gw2 because there is no/was no gear grind (hi dragonite ore) and because of the great action and skill-based combat system?
and how does “having time” even come into play when there is no gear treadmill and therefore no rewards that will make your character better stat wise (you dont need to rush through the content)?

Substance E.4852:

That kind of thing irks people who bought and play GW2 because it was the kind of game where casual play could get you what you wanted, even if it took a really long time. Hardcore raids don’t allow casuals to have easy access.

who says that casuals will not get what they want IF anet adds a little bit of raid content? especially when there is no gear treadmill.

Substance E.4852:

But, I can see where people are coming from. It’s the same kind of reason I stopped playing FF14. It was a gorgeous game with a great team and gameplay but it was all raids all the time. There was nothing else worth logging in for unless one was insane and actually “enjoyed” Relic Weapon grind. Eventually it stopped being something I could enjoy because I didn’t have time in my life to dedicate to forming statics for coil runs or doing EX primals over and over till I memorized their patterns well enough to not mess it up for everyone else. Paying $15 a month training to have fun was just not worth it in the end.

i would like to know how adding a bit of raid content will make gw2 a raid focused game with nothing else to do.
i mean will all of the content that is already there suddenly disappear? no.
does adding raid content mean the game will only be focused around raid content in the future? no.
does adding raid content mean there wont be any other content in the future? no.

people are looking at the addition of raids in gw2 from the wrong perspective.
in a game without a gear treadmill, all of the endgame content is completely optional.
think of a raid instance like a new dungeon, wvw map, pvp mode or whatever.
dont like dungeons? cool dont run them.
dont like wvw? cool dont do it.
dont like pvp? cool dont do it.
its that simple.

as long as you are not forced to complete content in order to unlock content or to make your character better stat wise, it will always be optional and nobody and nothing will force you to do it against your will.
the same counts for rewards. as long as its just skins or something else that doesnt make your character any better, its completely optional and justified.

there is literally no reason why people should feel such a hate towards the addition of raid content. the only reason for the hate of a few specific people in this thread towards raid content is because some people feel entitled to everything.

and here is my last question.
why do you create a skill-based combat system when you dont want to or are not able to deliver the right content for it?

So long as gw2 does not become a vertical progression gear treadmill, it makes no difference to me if they have some sort of raids. I don’t care for that sort of thing anymore but so long as they do not go further down the vertical progression gear treadmill path it is fine with me.

One of the things I liked about gw2 was the fact it had no gear treadmill at level cap. They have made many changes I dislike and for all I know they would go to a vertical progression gear treadmill format. It’s nice to have this game lacking that.

Curious about how to make raid style stuff with no trinity though. Maybe not a big deal, but I dislike dungeons here with no trinity. Just my taste. The play style here is cool and I do not ask for the Trinity, it is an interesting change to play gw2…but not exactly sure what a raid would be here.

NoTrigger.8396:

what i have learned from this thread:
the people who dont want raid content dont want it because:
- they are lazy
- they refuse to learn and improve
- they lack social skills
- they are lacking thick skin
- they cant deal with other players wishes
- they dont want to grant other players something
- they are egoistic
- they are allergic to seeing other players with special rewards that show that they have beaten the content
- they dont want to spend time and effort to strive for something and achieve it
- they prefer to play single player games and therefore dont want to see raid content in a multiplayer game
- “unfair” is now used to say “content that is too difficult for my skill level”

I ectually agree with some of these points…
What came to mind are my 2 legendaries, becease coming to think of it, the main thing that I needed for them was TIME but did I needed any specific skill or challenge for it? No, I am working at ease towards Sunrise now by gathering all the materials.
Precursor? lol either you get lucky and drop it or you farm dungoens (like I did) and buy it, I would like to see ectuall challenges (raids) that cost me skill, sweat and tears, but I dont know.. I got a feeling if Arenanet would do this they would somehow mess it up by giving bad rewards wich are not worth spending your time into or something.

What also came to my mind, just look at the current WvW tournament rewards, me and my guildies laughed when we sall the weekly achievements, 15-20 minuts in WvW and your weekly is done.
So yeah a bit more challenge in the game with good rewards as a outcome would be great!, Fractals for example the rewards are good and worthwhile the only problem there is that (atleast for me) the endloot is totally random, when I do high lvl fracs I almost always get nothing or a ring, while at lvl 20-30 I get an ascended chest or a fractal weapen, this is something that really bothers me about fracs.

Personally speaking, I think raids would be an awesome addition to the game, larger/longer dungeon ‘type’ affairs with new mechanics and enemies would be most welcome.
Something I feel would make them fit well into the game as it is, is to have them be connected to older lore from GW1 for example. They could be done in the same essence as fractals – a kind of time warp scenario where we revisit things done in Tyrian history (Tombs/UW/FoW/Urgoz/The Deep).
Also, having discussed a few random things with friends, the floating castle in Kessex, which we know holds a special place in a lot of GW1 vererans hearts could be a raid area, multiple paths/instances to clear the castle or somesuch.
Theres so much potential lore wise for things like this as well as new content related to GW2 lore itself. Rewards for them could be something as simple as (account bound skins from GW1 as a testiment to the history and a head nod to older long standing players).
I don’t want to soil this post by mentioning a certain other popular game that has many raids in it, but they did get a lot right with that system, the only thing i feel that would have to try and be avoided some how would be the utterly awful elitism that it can lead to.
I know this isn’t a concrete promise raid content will ever come to GW2, but it’s at least a promising prospect that wants of players are at least being scouted for possible ways to further the games content levels.

25 person dungeon? What a kick-o-rama that would be.

NoTrigger.8396:

what i have learned from this thread:
the people who dont want raid content dont want it because:
- they are lazy

How can you possibly consider that people in a bloody GAME are lazy ? People play games for ENJOYMENT and RELIEF. They are NOT loging in to WORK.

Who are YOU to tell other people how they should have fun ?

You do want raids because the actual group based content does not satisfy you anymore, we get it.

However, the actual group based content does not satisfy you because you have mastered it and it’s just faceroll for you and your friends of DnT. We get it

How can you possibly believe that raids will be any different for you ? You’ll just chew through it in a week or even less and then get bored again after a month. The combat system in GW2 allows optimised groups to literally obliterate anything in their way. Having a larger party will only worsen things.

THAT is the reason why I believe raids are a waste of time. NOT because I am a lazy casual. Building raids is a waste of ressources and developing time that could be better spent elsewhere : on new dry top-like maps, revamped dragons, GvG etc…

Afaik, dry top is still being farmed on a regular basis and since there are multiple teams involved in this farm, it takes much longer to get bored of it.

Oxidia.8103:

25 person dungeon? What a kick-o-rama that would be.

Yep. I’m going to call it now: if/when they add 25man dungeons, roughly 1% of the population will complete them. Only the largest guilds will be able to do them. PUGing 25 people will be a disaster. It will be yet more content that is added because of a vocal minority that will be ignored by the vast majority of players. Just more wasted development time/money.

Now if they do it as a 10man raid, that would be interesting.

To be honest, I don’t like raids. I don’t like these absurdly difficult challenges where 15+ players have to be painstakingly coordinated in Teamspeak and directed on what to do every second of the encounter. It feels like you are drilling animals in circus. I don’t like being a drilled animal. The first few weeks after the release, a tiny group of people are analyzing the mechanics, then teach their friends (often only their friends) of how to beat the boss. Someone must stand here, using this skill 10 seconds in the fight, some other must stand there, using that skill after 20 seconds and then on reload. Beating the script of the encounter this way is ridiculous. It is no epic “victory or death” battle against this terrible menace, it is a mechanic to make people press keys to the script of the encounter instead.

On the other hand, if in GW2 you call new dungeons with more than 5 people a raid, then it’s absolutely fine with me. I really would very much like to go into a dungeon with more than 5 people. It should scale to the number of team members, however. Would be ideal for evenings with the guild where more than 5 people want to do something together. Currently, 5 people go into a dungeon, and the rest scatters and sometimes logs off instead of playing.

I am all for raid content, as long as you do not limit the number of people for the encounter. As soon as that happens the elitist mentality will take over.

EQ1 raids were open world and you brought as many as you wanted, these were fun because you could bring 40 half geared people instead of being limited to 25 full geared only.

I am not against instancing the raids, just limiting people.

Could we see raids as an potential mean of unlocking new geographical areas?
Anyone who have seen or read Sword Art Online knows what i’m on about :P

Content is there, (world bosses, wvw, guild events… ) what is missing is the actual raid interface so commanders can have a clue with what they are working with. It’s a simple QoL that should’ve been here since 2 years ago.

if they do introduce raids, i hope that there would be some sort of scaling. not all of us have big enough guilds to field 40-man groups, regardless of guild size. maybe start from 10-man with increments of 2?

I’d love to see a reward trek that treks individual, group and overall Guild raid progress. It would be a great way to bring in a more dynamic reward system to the game.

I think it’s really satisfying to look forward to killing a boss and knowing that you have a decent chance to get something really cool; and I feel like that’s something GW2 has been lacking for a long time.

Whether that be a cool miniature, a dye, weapon-skins, the important distinction being that it has a reasonable chance to drop in addition to a guaranteed rewards system that you exchange towards things like lodestones or ascended crafting materials.

One of the reasons I can’t see myself playing GW2 much longer (except on a seasonal basis) is because the rewards are lackluster and the coolest designs are caged away in Black Lion Chests.

I feel like Guilds should play a bigger part in individual and group progression than they currently do. Being able to work towards something bigger (eg a Guild Hall) via raiding would be really cool in my opinion because then you would all have a stake in it!

Couple of points…

1. The combat system in this game is amazing. It is the sign of an extremely uncreative person if he believes that challenging boss fights for 10+ players is impossible to design with the current system. A trinity system is not required whatsoever to have bosses with complex mechanics. If you think it is not possible to design such encounters, kindly excuse yourself from the conversation.

2. You don’t need gear treadmills. In SWTOR you achieve a special wearable title if you complete the raid within a particular time frame after it launches. The raids are tuned to be challenging content that take 1 hour for a good, experienced group to accomplish if they don’t wipe. Guilds that manage to complete the raid in an hour during a specific window of time also get a special title. Prestigious, skillbased special titles are enough of a reward. If they want to implement unique skins (but not stats!) that can only gotten through the raid, that would be fine too. PvP already has unique skins that only the top 0.1% will ever get, and people seem to have gotten over that.

3. People need to stop complaining about content they don’t like. Saying “I don’t want raiding in gw2” is a tremendously myopic view. Just because content doesn’t appeal to you in no way means it shouldn’t be in the game. I don’t care about organized WvW, and I am not a top tier tPvP player, but if new modes and features and content was announced for them I wouldnt begrudge it to them. Any new, quality content is good for the game. Saying you don’t want the devs to work on particular content is just extremely selfish and it would be easier to say, “If they implemented raiding I wouldn’t participate” and then kindly excuse yourself from the rest of the conversation since it clearly doesn’t concern a topic that is relevant for you. This isn’t a zero sum game: just because dev attention is going to a particular mode that doesn’t interest you in no way diminishes the experience of whatever game mode you enjoy.

-Nike

I persoanlly think if we’re adding Raids into the game, we make a system that includes exisiting content that pretty much resembles raids already like Tequatl and the Triple Trouble wurm and allows them to be instanced with additional tools to fill out the additional slots like the LFG tool.

Maybe we could also dust off old Living story events that were essentially easy open world events (Marionette, Breachmaker, Escape from LA) and make hard mode versions of them and make them Legacy raids or something.

Regardless it would be more content for less Dev work then trying to make a brand new 15 man dungeon, which would probably take forever to finish.

they said putting dungeons in this game is a lot of work and it sounded like it’s too much on their plate.. teqautl was a huge failure when you consider what simpler changes could have been made, but of course metrics on how many players do the content as apposed to the obviousness of how much of the player base was turned off to the content.. it sounds like i’m biased but consider how many people argued against the typical doom sayers that the game is dieing with ‘look at all the players’ yet in reality gw2 has shown over a fair amount of time they have poor player retention compared to other mmo.. back on topic, i’m not against arena net adding raids but when you look at their track record, even hiring a seasoned raid programmer, you really have to ask yourself what resources at arena net are going to suffer from a guild and raid campaign but also what ‘raid ish’ content will eventually be delivered

Eric.6109:

if they do introduce raids, i hope that there would be some sort of scaling. not all of us have big enough guilds to field 40-man groups, regardless of guild size. maybe start from 10-man with increments of 2?

Exactly this. My guild has 5 people online at most and we’re happy with this state of affairs, so the whole raid content thing is something I won’t be able to even glance at unless it’ll scale back nicely and allow multiple guilds to participate in it at once.

If it’s gonna be a large-guild exclusive thing, then bugger it. Bugger it all to hell.

Asmodeus.5782:

Eric.6109:

if they do introduce raids, i hope that there would be some sort of scaling. not all of us have big enough guilds to field 40-man groups, regardless of guild size. maybe start from 10-man with increments of 2?

Exactly this. My guild has 5 people online at most and we’re happy with this state of affairs, so the whole raid content thing is something I won’t be able to even glance at unless it’ll scale back nicely and allow multiple guilds to participate in it at once.

If it’s gonna be a large-guild exclusive thing, then bugger it. Bugger it all to hell.

The Community has been dying for something more competitive and akin to MMOs. All you have now is mindless dungeon grind or 111111 spam in larger events.

Its about time we get something middle of the way but much harder. It gives players something to look and strive towards.

MMOs are generally designed to be played only with many players. I don’t see why you would ask or enjoy casual content which can be run with 5 people. Tons of other games on the market like that.

And im sure each of u has a few friends online on other guards. So ask them for help when the time comes.

And funny enough even guild missions require more than 5 people. I guess you never got to see them either.

I’d love some incredibly difficult content made for 5-10 players. That’s my general idea of fun. On megaserver I’m regularly surrounded by zounds of players, anyway. And no, after 1,5 year of playing I’ve never participated in a guild mission. We tend to do all the available instances without stacking, skipping and any kind of exploits and have a decent amount of fun doing so.

Besides, if my small guild will be able to join some other, larger, in order to participate in this raid content, I’ll be glad. Otherwise, however, it’s just a waste of development resources as far as I am concerned.

i’d like to write some suggestion for anet, based on my past experience with mmo’s

raid are different, have to be different for feel this moment something special you are waiting for

what raids needs:

_you can do it ONCE per week
otherwise will be just another “dungeon”

_you should be able to pug it with lfg tool
best things is do it with guildies/friends, but is important give a chance to anyone to play it

_reward
ofc, you need something u can acquire only with this mode, i suggesto to dont use RNG but tokens, with raids you should be able to gain armors and weapons skins, good loot and gold (not like fotm :p ) those skins (imho) should be something looking like legendary skins

_2 kind of raids
one for 8 ppl, and one with more (12, 16….) depends by designer

_scenarios
i think scenarios should be different from the rest of the game, should be something special, legendary, for example (imho) the solid ocean fractal looks different from the others scenarios

_role
i’d like to use other than berserker gear, i really dont want another “corner” or “max dps” content, i’d like to play (like i told) something different, i’d like to feel different my classes when i play, there is alot of combo stats, i’d like to use it and finally have another way to enjoy this game

Personally I think anything over 10 players is just asking for trouble.

The scaling in GW2 is not accurate enough imo to be brought into a raiding environment. Currently we have events that are made for 2-3 people, scale to impossible with 10 people and scale to stupidly easy with 15+ players. On the other end of the scale we have events made for 120 people and anything less than 115 players is impossible.

I doubt anyone can name a single event in the game that is well tuned for both 5 players and 50 players. Asking for scalable raids is dooming raiding to fail from the start.

Why do people want raids I don’t understand. Go play wow. I got this game on release because it was it’s own game.

Raids will have better armor I bet. This is going to turn into every single other mmo. I’m not a fan.

Sylent.3165:

Why do people want raids I don’t understand. Go play wow. I got this game on release because it was it’s own game.

Raids will have better armor I bet. This is going to turn into every single other mmo. I’m not a fan.

no one force u to do raids, if u dont wanna do it, just dont… why u wanna force me to play wow i dont like it, i like gw2

shhh, don’t say “go play wow”.. for the next 3 months x_x
don’t mention rift either

‘cough’ tyrian raid content 4 life!
 
for narniaaa  ._.

VodCom.6924:

Who are YOU to tell other people how they should have fun ?

Building raids is a waste of ressources and developing time that could be better spent elsewhere : on new dry top-like maps, revamped dragons, GvG etc…

u see what i did here?

VodCom.6924:

How can you possibly believe that raids will be any different for you ? You’ll just chew through it in a week or even less and then get bored again after a month. The combat system in GW2 allows optimised groups to literally obliterate anything in their way. Having a larger party will only worsen things.

if you are not smart enough to understand there are millions of mechanics to keep people from just obliterating anything in their way, its a waste of time to talk to you or give you an answer to begin with.

+ well tuned content should take weeks or months for the first full clear.
and challenge = high replayability
anet wanted to make people need weeks or months to kill tequatl and the wurm.
(you see what i did here?)

VodCom.6924:

Afaik, dry top is still being farmed on a regular basis and since there are multiple teams involved in this farm, it takes much longer to get bored of it.

loss of the sense of reality

there was something interesting happening in map chat after i went to dry top yesterday to check out the sand giant and his abilites (i believe it was you who claimed the sand giant would be difficult content in another thread).

the chat looked like this:
me: can anyone tell me where the sand giant spawns?
random guy: unswept uplands, but he is not worth it
me: i just wanna solo him because some kid on the forum claims he is difficult
random guy: even the zerg doesnt do him, he has overpowered abilities and the rewards arent worth it
me: i dont care about rewards, i just wanna try to solo him
random guy: kittening trolls, what the kitten are you doing here if you are not here for the rewards

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

and btw if the sand giant didnt have such high hp people would have solod him already because he has the same ablities like the giants in arah. the only difference is the conditions when he fears you and a single block isnt enough to block his stomps (you have to dodge 3 times in a row or get out of his range).
his rock cant be reflected for 50k+ damage. but it can be absorbed.

Hardcore content brah, hardcore content.

What about making new set of advanced guild missions aimed at larger groups? Could that serve this purpose? Current ones don’t require that many players (~15 for most challenges, ~6 for a puzzle, and just a handful for a single bounty or rush). Future guild missions could require significantly larger numbers of players. This new tier of missions would need to be unlocked. These would also include significantly better rewards than the current set of guild mission rewards contain.

Also, group size should be able to scale. Based on experience with my own guild which features over 200 active members worldwide, amassing more than 15 players at any moment for organized content can be tricky to pull off. On our official guild night, we sometimes struggle to get more than 10 players. As a result, if they do create content for larger groups, I would hope that it scales to some degree. Perhaps there could be a lower limit for minimum number of players and an upper limit for the maximum number of players. Larger groups could be rewarded higher coin, exp and karma values, but other non-coin rewards (commendations, rare/exotic/ascended items, etc) would be equivalent regardless of group size.

Asmodeus.5782:

Eric.6109:

if they do introduce raids, i hope that there would be some sort of scaling. not all of us have big enough guilds to field 40-man groups, regardless of guild size. maybe start from 10-man with increments of 2?

Exactly this. My guild has 5 people online at most and we’re happy with this state of affairs, so the whole raid content thing is something I won’t be able to even glance at unless it’ll scale back nicely and allow multiple guilds to participate in it at once.

If it’s gonna be a large-guild exclusive thing, then bugger it. Bugger it all to hell.

You know you could link up with a couple of other tiny guilds, make another guild called something like “The Tiny Guild Alliance”, and then just form up to do content that takes 10-15 players.

Then when it’s over, go back to repping your own tiny guild.

There are really easy workarounds for this considering everyone can be part of multiple guilds.

Asmodeus.5782:

We tend to do all the available instances without stacking, skipping and any kind of exploits and have a decent amount of fun doing so.

It must feel really rewarding to only get paid mere copper and silver per hour for your hard work as opposed to the 10g+ an hour that dungeon runners make. But as long as you are having fun :P

Lian Olsam.9541:

Sylent.3165:

Why do people want raids I don’t understand. Go play wow. I got this game on release because it was it’s own game.

Raids will have better armor I bet. This is going to turn into every single other mmo. I’m not a fan.

no one force u to do raids, if u dont wanna do it, just dont… why u wanna force me to play wow i dont like it, i like gw2

There are a number of problems in general with Raids, but the number one issue that will happen is Elitist;Exclusive mentality that seems to always accompany high-end content. Most people won’t do hard content for the sake of doing the content. They need rewards. Rewards good enough to keep people coming back to the content. Can’t just hand the rewards out to everyone, or they’ll just do the content once and quit. So you have difficult content that rewards the few. While those rewards may be limited to a few at first, it won’t take long before that wonderful “Gear-check” attitude creeps everywhere else. Have X this or Y that.. if not… GTFO. While an area of the game to shove those same elitist wannabes sounds good, their attitude is a dangerous virus that could easily lead this game further down the path it promised (lied) not to go before launch.

Raids can stay the heck out of the game. There are way too many ways they can go wrong, from scaling to rewards to time-sink requirements. Do we really need another game that requires 3/4 of the free time you have to complete one piece of one encounter? Do you really think they learned anything from the disastrous Wildstar “Go Gold or Quit” fiasco?

calyx.9086:

Asmodeus.5782:

Eric.6109:

if they do introduce raids, i hope that there would be some sort of scaling. not all of us have big enough guilds to field 40-man groups, regardless of guild size. maybe start from 10-man with increments of 2?

Exactly this. My guild has 5 people online at most and we’re happy with this state of affairs, so the whole raid content thing is something I won’t be able to even glance at unless it’ll scale back nicely and allow multiple guilds to participate in it at once.

If it’s gonna be a large-guild exclusive thing, then bugger it. Bugger it all to hell.

You know you could link up with a couple of other tiny guilds, make another guild called something like “The Tiny Guild Alliance”, and then just form up to do content that takes 10-15 players.

Then when it’s over, go back to repping your own tiny guild.

There are really easy workarounds for this considering everyone can be part of multiple guilds.

Asmodeus.5782:

We tend to do all the available instances without stacking, skipping and any kind of exploits and have a decent amount of fun doing so.

It must feel really rewarding to only get paid mere copper and silver per hour for your hard work as opposed to the 10g+ an hour that dungeon runners make. But as long as you are having fun :P

What do I need virtual gold for? o_O

for whatever gold sink, oops i mean ‘content’ they implement between big patches

Then I’ll just buy some with real cash. Much more preferable than cheesing mechanics and grinding until my eyes bleed.

Asmodeus.5782:

Then I’ll just buy some with real cash. Much more preferable than cheesing mechanics and grinding until my eyes bleed.

And this unfortunately is why we don’t get any real content. Why spend time, development, and money on engaging difficult content if all your revenue comes from people sitting in LA buying endless gemstore items and gold while not actually playing the game?

Gamers have ruined the era of video games, and it is sad.

I am actually playing the game. spvp, wvw, those parts of pve which have not been destroyed by the megaserver. Not cheesing dungeons, playing the whole content as it was intended to. Not touching Teq/Wurm and most of the world bosses anymore, because the crowds make it irritating and rather pointless.

What I was saying was the direct response to the suggestion that my way of playing dungeons (no stacking, no rushing, we do not even like zerkers) is inferior to the meta. It’s much better to buy gold with real money than spend hours repeatedly running the same few paths, isn’kitten Are you saying that people who have turned dungeons into gold factories have nothing to do with new content being a grindy, simplified farm-o-rama? The metrics have spoken! Players love this kitten!

So, back to the topic. If the raid content will be made with small guilds in mind and will allow them to ad hoc join forces and start a raid (creating alliances still demands me to scour the world for like-minded people and I’m too old, too busy and can’t really be buggered by that), I’ll welcome the new challenge. If not, oh well, maybe one day I’ll get something for myself.

Like new dungeons.

Now I’ve made myself sad.

I have come to enjoy these conversations. My question is ‘Why do you want harder content?’. If it’s for the challenge, that’s fantastic. But I would probably call ‘Malarkie!’ What you really want is higher rewards. We have great, hard content, but it is either skipped to get to the loot at the end of the dungeon, or not even bothered with because the rewards are ‘insufficient’.

Mechanics, roles, etc. do not provide the overarching reason for players to play this type of content. It’s there to provide ego strokes to those that finish them by wearing the flashy shinies. Personally, I have walked off without so many rewards in this game because I forgot to grab the end chest because I had so much fun doing the content and was so happy to complete the content.

EgonVenkman.1907:

There are a number of problems in general with Raids, but the number one issue that will happen is Elitist;Exclusive mentality that seems to always accompany high-end content. Most people won’t do hard content for the sake of doing the content. They need rewards. Rewards good enough to keep people coming back to the content. Can’t just hand the rewards out to everyone, or they’ll just do the content once and quit. So you have difficult content that rewards the few. While those rewards may be limited to a few at first, it won’t take long before that wonderful “Gear-check” attitude creeps everywhere else. Have X this or Y that.. if not… GTFO. While an area of the game to shove those same elitist wannabes sounds good, their attitude is a dangerous virus that could easily lead this game further down the path it promised (lied) not to go before launch.

Raids can stay the heck out of the game. There are way too many ways they can go wrong, from scaling to rewards to time-sink requirements. Do we really need another game that requires 3/4 of the free time you have to complete one piece of one encounter? Do you really think they learned anything from the disastrous Wildstar “Go Gold or Quit” fiasco?

I have to agree. I can’t say that any game I’ve played with raids didn’t cater to the most elite players and unless I’m mistaken, this game is about inclusion for all kinds of players, not catering to any single level of skill. This game will succeed if it continues to find ways to bring everyone together. Raid content has never done that well.

My vote is “no thank you”. I’d rather see the dev time put into more explorable zones, more champions on timers, and more skins. I know i’m kittening in the wind by typing this out here, but can’t help to try.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Asmodeus.5782:

Then I’ll just buy some with real cash. Much more preferable than cheesing mechanics and grinding until my eyes bleed.

And this unfortunately is why we don’t get any real content. Why spend time, development, and money on engaging difficult content if all your revenue comes from people sitting in LA buying endless gemstore items and gold while not actually playing the game?

Gamers have ruined the era of video games, and it is sad.

I just wanted to chime in on this. I was reading an old news article on Guild Wars 1 from before it launched that was reflecting on its payment model and how game companies and mmos were experimenting with payment systems. The most interesting statement in that article was how a Square Enix corporate head said he was watching how players in mmos traded digital goods to each other for real money and took that to mean that they found value in those digital goods. So, this idea that digital currency, items, armor, etc. being sold for real world monetary value isn’t a new phenomenon. That article was from 2004 and certainly RMT is a bit older than that. It’s just moved from the black market to being legit. There will always be people who seek the path of least resistance to making money. Right now RMT is the least resistance-y of them all on the consumer side. It’s a reality you can’t ignore in mmo game development.

As to why they should do anything else if they can create a perpetual digital walmart? Well, unless Anet’s goal was to create a shopping mall, and it’s pretty clear it wasn’t, they want to tell stories and let people have fun too. That’s what they’re working at I believe. Everyone here clearly just has different ideas about what’s fun (to raid or not to raid?) and wonders why everyone else just won’t agree that their idea of fun is wrong.

Can’t wait to see challenging group content in gw2.

You know I wonder if Anet can use a raiding set-up to revive old living story 1 content and make it better.

The Tower of nightmares would make an epic 10-15 man raid especially if the bosses at each floor were polished up with more distinct boss mechanics.

Plus maybe if we come up with a system that allows multiple sizes of raids we could bring back the Marionette and the battle at the breachmaker.