Guild Wars 2

Both are fun to play for me and both apparently have some utility in groups.

Which one has the higher damage capability?

Ranger has the highest dps of the two if we’re talking flat damage in full berserker set ups.

Having said that, if I was given a choice between having a guardian in my party or having a ranger, I’d pick the guardian every time, due to the sheer amount of party support they offer.

Every class can dish out a hell of a lot of damage if built for it, and guardian can offer far more to a party than ranger can.

I also actively play both guardian and ranger, and can vouch that guardians are far more useful in parties

Ranger’s rapid fire can deal quite a burst of damage in a few seconds, and if you maintain damage, long range shot has decent dps too. I’m not quite sure for guardian though.

If you are choosing based on dps capability, pick neither.

Astralporing.1957:

If you are choosing based on dps capability, pick neither.

I’m not. I’m trying to choose between the two and dps capability is the decider.

rapthorne.7345:

Ranger has the highest dps if we’re talking flat damage in full berserker set ups.

Having said that, if I was given a choice between having a guardian in my party or having a ranger, I’d pick the guardian every time, due to the sheer amount of party support they offer.

Every class can dish out a hell of a lot of damage if built for it, and guardian can offer far more to a party than ranger can.

I also actively play both guardian and ranger, and can vouch that guardians are far more useful in parties

Fortunately I’ve lucked into a really active PvE guild so I’m not too worried about finding paries. Oh, and basically 1/2 of the guild is a gard for some reason.

Guardian can probably have more dps with the unscathed contender but that trait is not operational all the time (only when you have aegis up). Rangers probably have more dps and offensive support but Guardian has lots of nice support too (reflection, aegis, protection, blinds etc.). Rangers are more of a luxury in terms of support comparable to warriors.

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Guardian can probably have more dps with the unscathed contender but that trait is not operational all the time (only when you have aegis up). Rangers probably have more dps and offensive support but Guardian has lots of nice support too (reflection, aegis, protection, blinds etc.). Rangers are more of a luxury in terms of support comparable to warriors.

So…rangers aren’t important to a group?

Rangers are a somewhat selfish class.
You also wont be using your longbow in any half decent group unless you are trolling.

Rangers basically offer 2 things to groups: Spotter and Frost Spirit.
Both of these increase dps.

Guardians mostly offer defensive utility, but have a lot more things from reflections to buffs and ridiculous amounts of aoe aegis blocks.
Guardian dps are mediocre, but especially GS has absurdly large aoe.

Guardian ranged weapons (its basically only the scepter) suck a bit, while Rangers shouldnt be using ranged weapons most of the time, but if they do Longbow is actually a very nice weapon.

Starbird.4029:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Guardian can probably have more dps with the unscathed contender but that trait is not operational all the time (only when you have aegis up). Rangers probably have more dps and offensive support but Guardian has lots of nice support too (reflection, aegis, protection, blinds etc.). Rangers are more of a luxury in terms of support comparable to warriors.

So…rangers aren’t important to a group?

There are 5 members in a party.

Warrior gives the highest stat buff for all professions so it’s given that you take one. They can also provide alot of might effortlessly.

Staff ele is top tier DPS and has the almighty Frost Bow.

Thief is also top tier DPS with lots of blinds and the bonus of enabling easier skips that will save you alot of time.

Ranger has good burst damage and second to warriors for stat buffing.

Guardians gives aegis, projectile block/reflects, blinds, cleanses, stability and some might. These might not directly affect stats like a Ranger does but these enable other party members to not dodge and allow them to build more offensively(traits+utilities) and keep attacking or possibly channeling a hard hitting skill. Reflect can also be significant in damage(like in Arah).

It’s not just simply which one does more damage, you have to look at the bigger picture and ask yourself which one allows the whole party to do more damage in the long run.

Arkinos.7245:

Rangers are a somewhat selfish class.
You also wont be using your longbow in any half decent group unless you are trolling.

Rangers basically offer 2 things to groups: Spotter and Frost Spirit.
Both of these increase dps.

Guardians mostly offer defensive utility, but have a lot more things from reflections to buffs and ridiculous amounts of aoe aegis blocks.
Guardian dps are mediocre, but especially GS has absurdly large aoe.

Guardian ranged weapons (its basically only the scepter) suck a bit, while Rangers shouldnt be using ranged weapons most of the time, but if they do Longbow is actually a very nice weapon.

I prefer melee actually, and would likely only use a bow when I wasn’t able to get in close.

Izaya.2906:

Starbird.4029:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Guardian can probably have more dps with the unscathed contender but that trait is not operational all the time (only when you have aegis up). Rangers probably have more dps and offensive support but Guardian has lots of nice support too (reflection, aegis, protection, blinds etc.). Rangers are more of a luxury in terms of support comparable to warriors.

So…rangers aren’t important to a group?

There are 5 members in a party.

Warrior gives the highest stat buff for all professions so it’s given that you take one. They can also provide alot of might effortlessly.

Staff ele is top tier DPS and has the almighty Frost Bow.

Thief is also top tier DPS with lots of blinds and the bonus of enabling easier skips that will save you alot of time.

Ranger has good burst damage and second to warriors for stat buffing.

Guardians gives aegis, projectile block/reflects, blinds, cleanses, stability and some might. These might not directly affect stats like a Ranger does but these enable other party members to not dodge and allow them to build more offensively(traits+utilities) and keep attacking or possibly channeling a hard hitting skill. Reflect can also be significant in damage(like in Arah).

It’s not just simply which one does more damage, you have to look at the bigger picture and ask yourself which one allows the whole party to do more damage in the long run.

Hmm, this isn’t making me want to play a ranger unfortunately. Sigh, back to guard?

This is one of those threads where I have to scroll back up to make sure it wasn’t actually started in 2012 or something.

Good job guys.

Starbird.4029:

Izaya.2906:

Starbird.4029:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Guardian can probably have more dps with the unscathed contender but that trait is not operational all the time (only when you have aegis up). Rangers probably have more dps and offensive support but Guardian has lots of nice support too (reflection, aegis, protection, blinds etc.). Rangers are more of a luxury in terms of support comparable to warriors.

So…rangers aren’t important to a group?

There are 5 members in a party.

Warrior gives the highest stat buff for all professions so it’s given that you take one. They can also provide alot of might effortlessly.

Staff ele is top tier DPS and has the almighty Frost Bow.

Thief is also top tier DPS with lots of blinds and the bonus of enabling easier skips that will save you alot of time.

Ranger has good burst damage and second to warriors for stat buffing.

Guardians gives aegis, projectile block/reflects, blinds, cleanses, stability and some might. These might not directly affect stats like a Ranger does but these enable other party members to not dodge and allow them to build more offensively(traits+utilities) and keep attacking or possibly channeling a hard hitting skill. Reflect can also be significant in damage(like in Arah).

It’s not just simply which one does more damage, you have to look at the bigger picture and ask yourself which one allows the whole party to do more damage in the long run.

Hmm, this isn’t making me want to play a ranger unfortunately. Sigh, back to guard?

If there’s a competent guardian already just hop on your ranger. If you feel there’s a need for you to play guardian to make your life easier then do it lol.

I was told in a dungeon that the Ranger prof isn’t “meant for dungeons.”.

I am also not allowed, by most players, to play anything other than melee on it in dungeons.

In addition to this, anything other than tanking pets all seem to die within about 2 secs, but if you try to use a tanking pet you get criticism for that, as well.

Plus, only about two builds are considered viable.

Perhaps that will help you with your decision?

It should NOT be this way and ANet seriously need to wake up and change some things, but if you are not married to the idea of being a Ranger (as I, sadly, am), I would just avoid it for your own peace of mind, if I were you.

Tigaseye.2047:

I was told in a dungeon that the Ranger prof isn’t “meant for dungeons.”.

I am also not allowed, by most players, to play anything other than melee on it in dungeons.

In addition to this, anything other than tanking pets all seem to die within about 2 secs, but if you try to use a tanking pet you get criticism for that, as well.

Plus, only about two builds are considered viable.

Perhaps that will help you with your decision?

It should NOT be this way and ANet seriously need to wake up and change some things, but if you are not married to the idea of being a Ranger (as I, sadly, am), I would just avoid it for your own peace of mind, if I were you.

It’s players setting the standards of what they prefer as being optimal. Any build for ranger is viable in this game. If you’re having issues finding groups then I suggest that you create your own and be specific about what you’re looking for. The group may fill up slower but there are many other players with the same mindset as you that want to play the way that they want and not what is deemed optimal or the meta.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

I was told in a dungeon that the Ranger prof isn’t “meant for dungeons.”.

I am also not allowed, by most players, to play anything other than melee on it in dungeons.

In addition to this, anything other than tanking pets all seem to die within about 2 secs, but if you try to use a tanking pet you get criticism for that, as well.

Plus, only about two builds are considered viable.

Perhaps that will help you with your decision?

It should NOT be this way and ANet seriously need to wake up and change some things, but if you are not married to the idea of being a Ranger (as I, sadly, am), I would just avoid it for your own peace of mind, if I were you.

It’s players setting the standards of what they prefer as being optimal. Any build for ranger is viable in this game. If you’re having issues finding groups then I suggest that you create your own and be specific about what you’re looking for. The group may fill up slower but there are many other players with the same mindset as you that want to play the way that they want and not what is deemed optimal or the meta.

As I said in my last post, on another thread, I am aware that I could make my own groups, but I should not have to do that all the time just to be able to play with a ranged weapon on a ranged class called “Ranger”.

Many people, for whatever reason (or reasons), do not value rangers in group play, that is the point here.

People may try to claim that it is just prejudice, but I tend to think there is no smoke without fire.

Tigaseye.2047:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

I was told in a dungeon that the Ranger prof isn’t “meant for dungeons.”.

I am also not allowed, by most players, to play anything other than melee on it in dungeons.

In addition to this, anything other than tanking pets all seem to die within about 2 secs, but if you try to use a tanking pet you get criticism for that, as well.

Plus, only about two builds are considered viable.

Perhaps that will help you with your decision?

It should NOT be this way and ANet seriously need to wake up and change some things, but if you are not married to the idea of being a Ranger (as I, sadly, am), I would just avoid it for your own peace of mind, if I were you.

It’s players setting the standards of what they prefer as being optimal. Any build for ranger is viable in this game. If you’re having issues finding groups then I suggest that you create your own and be specific about what you’re looking for. The group may fill up slower but there are many other players with the same mindset as you that want to play the way that they want and not what is deemed optimal or the meta.

As I said in my last post, on another thread, I am aware that I could make my own groups, but I should not have to do that all the time just to be able to play with a ranged weapon on a ranged class called “Ranger”.

Many people, for whatever reason (or reasons), do not value rangers in group play, that is the point here.

People may try to claim that it is just prejudice, but I tend to think there is no smoke without fire.

Rangers provide very little support aside from two or so buffs. If they go ranged, it’s difficult for the other members to benefit from these buffs. You also no not benefit from the buffs that the other members provide and you well likely not be revived mid-fight when downed if you’re using ranged attacks while everyone else is melee.

I can’t really stand the slowness of Guardian (unless you use rune of traveler or some sort of speed boost). Ranger is very able and fun to play. Long bow is awesome as we all know. For melee, the Greatsword 1 evade is surprisingly good, and Axe 5 allow you to put stack of vulnerability onto foe. But yes, it is a rather selfish class (some classes are also quite selfish though). I’m having fun with Ranger in EoTM; better than Guardian imo.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

I was told in a dungeon that the Ranger prof isn’t “meant for dungeons.”.

I am also not allowed, by most players, to play anything other than melee on it in dungeons.

In addition to this, anything other than tanking pets all seem to die within about 2 secs, but if you try to use a tanking pet you get criticism for that, as well.

Plus, only about two builds are considered viable.

Perhaps that will help you with your decision?

It should NOT be this way and ANet seriously need to wake up and change some things, but if you are not married to the idea of being a Ranger (as I, sadly, am), I would just avoid it for your own peace of mind, if I were you.

It’s players setting the standards of what they prefer as being optimal. Any build for ranger is viable in this game. If you’re having issues finding groups then I suggest that you create your own and be specific about what you’re looking for. The group may fill up slower but there are many other players with the same mindset as you that want to play the way that they want and not what is deemed optimal or the meta.

As I said in my last post, on another thread, I am aware that I could make my own groups, but I should not have to do that all the time just to be able to play with a ranged weapon on a ranged class called “Ranger”.

Many people, for whatever reason (or reasons), do not value rangers in group play, that is the point here.

People may try to claim that it is just prejudice, but I tend to think there is no smoke without fire.

Rangers provide very little support aside from two or so buffs. If they go ranged, it’s difficult for the other members to benefit from these buffs. You also no not benefit from the buffs that the other members provide and you well likely not be revived mid-fight when downed if you’re using ranged attacks while everyone else is melee.

Yes, I know and I question this fundamental design.

Not only is it highly restrictive, but it is also very boring, IMO.

This is, essentially, what I am saying.

Players may make even more restrictive rules than are strictly necessary, but it is the fundamental design of the game which is flawed, in that it allows/encourages them to be able to do that.

Tigaseye.2047:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

I was told in a dungeon that the Ranger prof isn’t “meant for dungeons.”.

I am also not allowed, by most players, to play anything other than melee on it in dungeons.

In addition to this, anything other than tanking pets all seem to die within about 2 secs, but if you try to use a tanking pet you get criticism for that, as well.

Plus, only about two builds are considered viable.

Perhaps that will help you with your decision?

It should NOT be this way and ANet seriously need to wake up and change some things, but if you are not married to the idea of being a Ranger (as I, sadly, am), I would just avoid it for your own peace of mind, if I were you.

It’s players setting the standards of what they prefer as being optimal. Any build for ranger is viable in this game. If you’re having issues finding groups then I suggest that you create your own and be specific about what you’re looking for. The group may fill up slower but there are many other players with the same mindset as you that want to play the way that they want and not what is deemed optimal or the meta.

As I said in my last post, on another thread, I am aware that I could make my own groups, but I should not have to do that all the time just to be able to play with a ranged weapon on a ranged class called “Ranger”.

Many people, for whatever reason (or reasons), do not value rangers in group play, that is the point here.

People may try to claim that it is just prejudice, but I tend to think there is no smoke without fire.

Rangers provide very little support aside from two or so buffs. If they go ranged, it’s difficult for the other members to benefit from these buffs. You also no not benefit from the buffs that the other members provide and you well likely not be revived mid-fight when downed if you’re using ranged attacks while everyone else is melee.

Yes, I know and I question this fundamental design.

Not only is it highly restrictive, but it is also very boring, IMO.

This is, essentially, what I am saying.

Players may make even more restrictive rules than are strictly necessary, but it is the fundamental design of the game which is flawed, in that it allows/encourages them to be able to do that.

So meleeing the boss while utilizing active defenses and group synergy is boring compared to auto attacking at max range while everyone else deals with the brunt of the enemy’s attacks?

It’s a restriction set by players on how they want to play in their groups. It’s no different than you saying people should be able to use ranged attacks in your groups.

Starbird.4029:

Izaya.2906:

Starbird.4029:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Guardian can probably have more dps with the unscathed contender but that trait is not operational all the time (only when you have aegis up). Rangers probably have more dps and offensive support but Guardian has lots of nice support too (reflection, aegis, protection, blinds etc.). Rangers are more of a luxury in terms of support comparable to warriors.

So…rangers aren’t important to a group?

There are 5 members in a party.

Warrior gives the highest stat buff for all professions so it’s given that you take one. They can also provide alot of might effortlessly.

Staff ele is top tier DPS and has the almighty Frost Bow.

Thief is also top tier DPS with lots of blinds and the bonus of enabling easier skips that will save you alot of time.

Ranger has good burst damage and second to warriors for stat buffing.

Guardians gives aegis, projectile block/reflects, blinds, cleanses, stability and some might. These might not directly affect stats like a Ranger does but these enable other party members to not dodge and allow them to build more offensively(traits+utilities) and keep attacking or possibly channeling a hard hitting skill. Reflect can also be significant in damage(like in Arah).

It’s not just simply which one does more damage, you have to look at the bigger picture and ask yourself which one allows the whole party to do more damage in the long run.

Hmm, this isn’t making me want to play a ranger unfortunately. Sigh, back to guard?

Lol you said a lot of your guild is a Guardian. That means you can be selfish and play Ranger or glass Thief! I personally like hybrid glass Thief myself. Still easy as kitten to stay alive.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

I was told in a dungeon that the Ranger prof isn’t “meant for dungeons.”.

I am also not allowed, by most players, to play anything other than melee on it in dungeons.

In addition to this, anything other than tanking pets all seem to die within about 2 secs, but if you try to use a tanking pet you get criticism for that, as well.

Plus, only about two builds are considered viable.

Perhaps that will help you with your decision?

It should NOT be this way and ANet seriously need to wake up and change some things, but if you are not married to the idea of being a Ranger (as I, sadly, am), I would just avoid it for your own peace of mind, if I were you.

It’s players setting the standards of what they prefer as being optimal. Any build for ranger is viable in this game. If you’re having issues finding groups then I suggest that you create your own and be specific about what you’re looking for. The group may fill up slower but there are many other players with the same mindset as you that want to play the way that they want and not what is deemed optimal or the meta.

As I said in my last post, on another thread, I am aware that I could make my own groups, but I should not have to do that all the time just to be able to play with a ranged weapon on a ranged class called “Ranger”.

Many people, for whatever reason (or reasons), do not value rangers in group play, that is the point here.

People may try to claim that it is just prejudice, but I tend to think there is no smoke without fire.

Rangers provide very little support aside from two or so buffs. If they go ranged, it’s difficult for the other members to benefit from these buffs. You also no not benefit from the buffs that the other members provide and you well likely not be revived mid-fight when downed if you’re using ranged attacks while everyone else is melee.

Yes, I know and I question this fundamental design.

Not only is it highly restrictive, but it is also very boring, IMO.

This is, essentially, what I am saying.

Players may make even more restrictive rules than are strictly necessary, but it is the fundamental design of the game which is flawed, in that it allows/encourages them to be able to do that.

So meleeing the boss while utilizing active defenses and group synergy is boring compared to auto attacking at max range while everyone else deals with the brunt of the enemy’s attacks?

Well, I find skip>stack>melee>skip>stack>melee, all dungeon long, extremely boring, yes.

At least you can have fun dodging attacks (and not just dodging into the same wall, repeatedly, lol!), if you don’t have to stack.

I would find it boring whichever prof I was playing, ranged or not, because it simply is boring.

Even the fact that melee take far more damage is lazy design, to an extent.

It doesn’t have to be that way.

Although, given that medium armour can take less damage and rangers are simply not built and/or building for defence, it obviously does make sense ATM.

Even in that way, this game is simplistic compared with something like WoW.

WoW seems to have more varied and more ranged based attacks, there are four armour types, not three (hunters wear mail, not leather), you don’t have to stack for everything (although, still more than I would ideally like) as buffs are group-wide.

The list goes on.

While I find this game beautiful and imaginative, from a levelling/exploration POV, I find the group gameplay and class design an almost primative snorefest, which is only made difficult by the fact that I haven’t done the paths enough to know all the places to skip and stack, yet, have few defences in a stacking melee situation and suffer from poor fps.

That is not good design and it’s a shame, because it could be so much better.

It’s a pity that the creative minds and artists from GW2 can’t get (back?) together with the class design and gameplay people from WoW.

Because, if you could take the best things from both games, the resulting product could be amazing.

All these options going from a pure min maxing point of view.

Realistically you can do every instance in the game with 5 rangers. It’s not as fast or as optimal but it’s entirely doable. Instances, outside fractals, are essentially really easy.

Play what you enjoy, keep in mind guardians have to work way harder for damage. When they want to be damage, they end up giving up nearly all of their utility for it and become glass cannons. Which is why you seen more hybrid support damage guardians.

Play ranger. Ranger looks cooler; it requires more situation awareness and reflex to pull off a timely dodge. Ranger has higher base damage, better burst, better mobility, better crit chance, better reflection damage and better CC overall. Ranger stacks vuln, brings Spotter, Frost Spirit, aoe heal and condi cleanse. Ranger has the best tank (bears) in EU. On the down side, ranger’s utility is rather selfish and meh, pet AI is clunky and the sword autoattack roots him. In the end, play ranger if DPS is what appeals to you.

Just the guardians are generally deemed useful doesn’t mean that rangers can’t be useful. Players’ skills matter.

For those who’re saying guard has no mobility: do you play in auto run only?
Go guard man, don’t trust rangers, and don’t trust guards in general. .. trust only in your skills if you’re playing with a dps build, and in every instance you will die cause of your fault, not by untrained players..
P.S: go guard

I’ve played both. They’re both good, though I have to admit I’ve been finding my ranger more fun lately – but maybe that’s just the Fiery Dragon Sword of Fire.

Starbird.4029:

I prefer melee actually, and would likely only use a bow when I wasn’t able to get in close.

You use your bow in melee, though you only use the 5 and 2 skill then swap to your melee weapon for a while till the 5 and 2 skill will be back up… or just don’t and use it only as a starter for fights for the high vuln and the cripple.

To get to the question in the title, IIRC Rangers will edge out a guardian in the max dps builds but not by much. However guards usually don’t use their max DPS builds and opt for some dps loss to bring more support. Likewise though if you can’t handle sword you’re looking at 7-17% less damage on your ranger depending on cripple/chill/immob uptime and that GS is simply less damage than sword. Sword can be hard to handle but pretty fun if you can get the hang of it.

As for which you should play… don’t bother looking for objective reasons, they are both good, just play the one you like better. If you enjoy managing the pet (one of the reasons I don’t play mine much) and can handle sword there’s nothing wrong with ranger. Guard of course is the support powerhouse profession and is always liked, but again, both are great additions to a group if properly played.

Just wanted to point out that for PvE, Guardian in zerk build that is also traited for it, can put out silly amounts of damage with a scepter and torch set up at range.

The being said, overall I opt for my Guardian simply because they can both put out damage and helpful buffs more often to a group than rangers BUT I have seen tankier support minded rangers. They just don’t get played by many people.

Actually the idea that ranger is a “selfish” class is a misconception. However, there are a few things that are selfish, and those are:

Passive Signet of the Hunt – Instead, use skill 5 on a warhorn for runs. You’ll give swiftness to everyone

Staying ranged because you want to range – As people explained, there is a good melee option for your class and you will give/receive buffs from up close. You also reduce the risk or luring the enemy away from your melee party if you don’t stick with them

Refusal to manage pets – Ranger is NOT the easymode class. You have to micromanage your pet at all times or they WILL cause annoying delays and even party wipes. If you swap them frequently before they die, you won’t need a tanky pet. Better pet damage is better for your party.

A few utilities that really don’t do anything important – But, all the classes have these.

Now, lets move on to the things that are NOT selfish:

Warhorn – There are times when your group, dare I say it, does not keep Fury up at all times. If you have the warhorn equipped, you can help prevent that. Also it gives a lot of swiftness for running

DPS – Not to start a zerker debate, but it is true that doing more damage = dead enemies. Dead enemies = helping your party. Rangers have insane burst. The sword auto when added to the pet damage is among the highest 11111 spam in the game.

Set up Frost Spirit. Blow the warhorn. Swap to longbow. Start your fights off with barrage (and RF if single target). Tell your cat to give 5 stacks of might. Swap to your jaguar and swap to your sword. Use Signet of the Wild and immediately after it finishes use Quickening Zephyr. Stealth that jaguar while auto attacking. It’s a complicated process, but it’s a LOT of damage.

Resurrecting fallen allies – I’m not saying we’re the BEST at it, after all, Warrior does have Battle Standard. However, if you’re a ranger and find that SotW and QZ are charged and ready to go, you can quickly rez a downed party member up before the CCs and damage get out of hand.

Often being the best medium to throw your buffs on – If you have a party that already has all of the bases covered as far as stacking might, weapon summons and boons in general, you’re going to want somewhere really good to put them. Ranger is that place. Add 25 might to the 87.5% DPS increase they earn during the uptime of SotW and QZ and watch the enemy’s HP drain. Give the ranger a Lightning Hammer and you can keep might blasts going in the middle of a longer fight (like Lupi.) Also that DPS is going to shoot up even farther because LH has non-pet damage YET you still keep the pet. (Mesmers are a good choice for LH too.)

Healing Spring + Blast finisher – Healing spring is one of the best party condition removal skills in the game. You can also time it with your warhorn blast finisher for a little extra group heal.

Frost Spirit and Spotter – 7% damage increase and crit chance increase for the whole party.

So to answer the OP, Ranger probably has the higher damage capability. Unscathed Contender has nothing on the SotW+QZ combo.

So is it fair to say just pick what is most fun? They both do different things as well as capable of doing high DPS.

If you go WvW or PvP you’re going to see the same thing…they do different things well and can put a hurting on people if played right.

Leo G.4501:

So is it fair to say just pick what is most fun? They both do different things as well as capable of doing high DPS.

If you go WvW or PvP you’re going to see the same thing…they do different things well and can put a hurting on people if played right.

Yes. I’d pick whichever you feel that you would have the most fun playing. You can even play both too as many of us play multiple classes depending on what we’re in the mood for.

Meditation Guardian destroys all the things. Extremely Offensive, Extremely Defensive, Extreme Praise the Sun.

Doggie.3184:

Meditation Guardian destroys all the things. Extremely Offensive, Extremely Defensive, Extreme Praise the Sun.

and is also not a build used in pve, lets stay on topic here

maha.7902:

Doggie.3184:

Meditation Guardian destroys all the things. Extremely Offensive, Extremely Defensive, Extreme Praise the Sun.

and is also not a build used in pve, lets stay on topic here

Sure it is, silly goose.

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

Ayrilana.1396:

Tigaseye.2047:

I was told in a dungeon that the Ranger prof isn’t “meant for dungeons.”.

I am also not allowed, by most players, to play anything other than melee on it in dungeons.

In addition to this, anything other than tanking pets all seem to die within about 2 secs, but if you try to use a tanking pet you get criticism for that, as well.

Plus, only about two builds are considered viable.

Perhaps that will help you with your decision?

It should NOT be this way and ANet seriously need to wake up and change some things, but if you are not married to the idea of being a Ranger (as I, sadly, am), I would just avoid it for your own peace of mind, if I were you.

It’s players setting the standards of what they prefer as being optimal. Any build for ranger is viable in this game. If you’re having issues finding groups then I suggest that you create your own and be specific about what you’re looking for. The group may fill up slower but there are many other players with the same mindset as you that want to play the way that they want and not what is deemed optimal or the meta.

As I said in my last post, on another thread, I am aware that I could make my own groups, but I should not have to do that all the time just to be able to play with a ranged weapon on a ranged class called “Ranger”.

Many people, for whatever reason (or reasons), do not value rangers in group play, that is the point here.

People may try to claim that it is just prejudice, but I tend to think there is no smoke without fire.

Rangers provide very little support aside from two or so buffs. If they go ranged, it’s difficult for the other members to benefit from these buffs. You also no not benefit from the buffs that the other members provide and you well likely not be revived mid-fight when downed if you’re using ranged attacks while everyone else is melee.

Spotter is one the biggest party buffs in the game and frost spirit is amazing if placed properly. If a ranger runs S/WH LB and spends most of the fight in melee they out DPS warriors. It’s hard to find good rangers but if you see one it will change your thinking.

Ayrilana.1396:

So meleeing the boss while utilizing active defenses and group synergy is boring compared to auto attacking at max range while everyone else deals with the brunt of the enemy’s attacks?

It’s a restriction set by players on how they want to play in their groups. It’s no different than you saying people should be able to use ranged attacks in your groups.

Ideally, ranged combat would be just as challenging as melee combat in all modes of play. Hell, it was that way in GW1. Rangers required skill and knowledge to play well (they had very little PvP build flexibility, but you take what you can get…). In GW2, however, our best DPS is from spamming auto attacks, and many of our skills are controlled by AI.

rapthorne.7345:

Ranger has the highest dps of the two if we’re talking flat damage in full berserker set ups.

Having said that, if I was given a choice between having a guardian in my party or having a ranger, I’d pick the guardian every time, due to the sheer amount of party support they offer.

Every class can dish out a hell of a lot of damage if built for it, and guardian can offer far more to a party than ranger can.

I also actively play both guardian and ranger, and can vouch that guardians are far more useful in parties

Wrong. Unscathed contender berk guardian beats the ranger not only in THEORY, but in practice where the ranger will always have lower dps due to the flaws of mainhand sword autoattack making it impossible for him to max melee range bosses outside of their hitbox for safety.

Moreover, the guardian has better CLEAVE. Of all your pets, your top DPS pet, cats, do not cleave, it’s the inferior dps drakes. Meanwhile a guardian with sword/focus+greatsword cleaves all targets.

More importantly, PvE in this game is about BURST. With enough burst, you can skip entirre boss mechanics phases, and kill thrash pulls before they can even pose a threat.

The guardian has far better burst, because the ranger doesn’t even have burst. Whirling wrath and shield of wrath will blow the ranger out of the water in burst opening with 25 stacks of might and fury.

Leo G.4501:

So is it fair to say just pick what is most fun? They both do different things as well as capable of doing high DPS.

If you go WvW or PvP you’re going to see the same thing…they do different things well and can put a hurting on people if played right.

I think this sums it up perfectly.

@Zenith, umm pretty sure rangers have some of the best burst. Barrage + Rapid Fire under Quickening Zephyr/Signet of the Wild/Rampage as One, swap sword/axe use Path of Scars and then auto to finish out your buffs, really some of the best burst, only downside is long reuse on the buffs.

Iris Ng.9845:

it requires more situation awareness, better reflection damage, better CC overall

lol

Doggie.3184:

maha.7902:

Doggie.3184:

Meditation Guardian destroys all the things. Extremely Offensive, Extremely Defensive, Extreme Praise the Sun.

and is also not a build used in pve, lets stay on topic here

Sure it is, silly goose.

dont really know what i can say

Starbird.4029:

Both are fun to play for me and both apparently have some utility in groups.

Which one has the higher damage capability?

I really wish people asking these sorts of thing would specify AoE or single-target. They’re two entirely different questions…

Tigaseye.2047:

While I find this game beautiful and imaginative, from a levelling/exploration POV, I find the group gameplay and class design an almost primative snorefest, which is only made difficult by the fact that I haven’t done the paths enough to know all the places to skip and stack, yet, have few defences in a stacking melee situation and suffer from poor fps.

Last I checked, stacking tightly in a corner was considered extremely distasteful and totally pointless.

It used to be a good idea, but nearly all of the skills that benefited from fighting enemies in a corner or up against a wall were nerfed months ago.

Rangers also have some traits (+10% power damage vs. flanked enemies, for example) that specifically require them not to stack.

As for bears, plonking a 54k hp sack of meat down in front of your group is far from the worst way to deal with certain threats (unblockable projectile spam, for example).

To compare the 2, Ranger provide slightly better DPS but far worse group support.

For PvE, Guardian is among the top 2 best class, beside Elementalist. Ranger is in the bottom 3 classes beside Necro and Engi.

If you want sheer DPS, go Ele or Thief, Ele provides a bit more DPS and have more utility. Thief has the group stealth mechanic that can be very useful in some dungeon.

Izaya.2906:

Starbird.4029:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Guardian can probably have more dps with the unscathed contender but that trait is not operational all the time (only when you have aegis up). Rangers probably have more dps and offensive support but Guardian has lots of nice support too (reflection, aegis, protection, blinds etc.). Rangers are more of a luxury in terms of support comparable to warriors.

So…rangers aren’t important to a group?

There are 5 members in a party.

Warrior gives the highest stat buff for all professions so it’s given that you take one. They can also provide alot of might effortlessly.

Staff ele is top tier DPS and has the almighty Frost Bow.

Thief is also top tier DPS with lots of blinds and the bonus of enabling easier skips that will save you alot of time.

Ranger has good burst damage and second to warriors for stat buffing.

Guardians gives aegis, projectile block/reflects, blinds, cleanses, stability and some might. These might not directly affect stats like a Ranger does but these enable other party members to not dodge and allow them to build more offensively(traits+utilities) and keep attacking or possibly channeling a hard hitting skill. Reflect can also be significant in damage(like in Arah).

It’s not just simply which one does more damage, you have to look at the bigger picture and ask yourself which one allows the whole party to do more damage in the long run.

This. Basically all 5 spots in the party is predetermined. This game has trinity, and that is fact. 99% of the situation it’s best to have 1 war 1 guard 1 ele 1 thief, and the last spot depend on dungeon and situation.

The remaining 1 slot is fight over between mesmer, ranger or engineer, depending on what a team needs. Some more experienced group will even pick another ele because their utilities and damage are just too good. Less experienced group may take mesmer as a back-up utility person. Some team may take ranger for even higher overall group dps, but the ironic part is another ele can totally fill up ranger’s dps role most of the time, if not better.

I really hope specialization will change this trinity thing of GW2, which 4 classes are stronger than the rest of the classes in dungeon.

That would affect PvP though. Ranger, Necro and Engi are among the strongest PvP classes right now.

Toxsa.2701:

Izaya.2906:

Starbird.4029:

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Guardian can probably have more dps with the unscathed contender but that trait is not operational all the time (only when you have aegis up). Rangers probably have more dps and offensive support but Guardian has lots of nice support too (reflection, aegis, protection, blinds etc.). Rangers are more of a luxury in terms of support comparable to warriors.

So…rangers aren’t important to a group?

There are 5 members in a party.

Warrior gives the highest stat buff for all professions so it’s given that you take one. They can also provide alot of might effortlessly.

Staff ele is top tier DPS and has the almighty Frost Bow.

Thief is also top tier DPS with lots of blinds and the bonus of enabling easier skips that will save you alot of time.

Ranger has good burst damage and second to warriors for stat buffing.

Guardians gives aegis, projectile block/reflects, blinds, cleanses, stability and some might. These might not directly affect stats like a Ranger does but these enable other party members to not dodge and allow them to build more offensively(traits+utilities) and keep attacking or possibly channeling a hard hitting skill. Reflect can also be significant in damage(like in Arah).

It’s not just simply which one does more damage, you have to look at the bigger picture and ask yourself which one allows the whole party to do more damage in the long run.

This. Basically all 5 spots in the party is predetermined. This game has trinity, and that is fact. 99% of the situation it’s best to have 1 war 1 guard 1 ele 1 thief, and the last spot depend on dungeon and situation.

The remaining 1 slot is fight over between mesmer, ranger or engineer, depending on what a team needs. Some more experienced group will even pick another ele because their utilities and damage are just too good. Less experienced group may take mesmer as a back-up utility person. Some team may take ranger for even higher overall group dps, but the ironic part is another ele can totally fill up ranger’s dps role most of the time, if not better.

I really hope specialization will change this trinity thing of GW2, which 4 classes are stronger than the rest of the classes in dungeon.

Well, honestly it’s WEET, War, Ele, Ele, Thief as the general basis for any group, you slot in whatever for that last spot depending on the dungeon. And that’s likely either Guard or Mesmer, far more often Mesmer due to portal tricks. For pure damage you likely bring a 3rd Ele. And honestly you might even drop the war/thief in favor of Ele’s in some cases

That said, we’re talking seconds here. We’re talking optimization not viability. It’s more comparabe to other games situations where one healer is the best, one tank is the best, and one dps is the best so those 3 are the primary “Meta” classes, doesn’t mean that the other options for each role aren’t completely acceptable though.

Swapping professions really only means you trade out optimal damage/utility for something else. On longer fights Engi is great with it’s persistent vuln stacking and you can fill in for some might stacking and stealth. Ranger has offensive buffs comparable to warrior, it’s just honestly a frustrating profession that can be difficult to handle and screws things up if you aren’t perfect with the pet AI and what not. Necro is the only profession that really needs a hand in PVE, they just don’t really compete in any PVE based aspect compared to other professions.

And, @Dragonax, I was under the impression that necro was mid level in PVP at this point? /shrug either way I think there are plenty of ways to adjust them without making too big of changes for the PVP side.

DarkWasp.7291:

If you swap them frequently before they die, you won’t need a tanky pet.

This is, simply, not true.

I even have the reduced CD on pet swapping trait, used to play BM hunter in WoW (so, am not pet unaware) and yet, still, I can occasionally be left without a pet for a while, even if I use 2 bear pets; let alone if I use more vulnerable ones.

…and as for the “you must play melee, with a sword, as a ranger”, that is true in the current game design, but doesn’t that strike you as wrong?

The official GW2 guide says Rangers are bow specialists, so it is just all kinds of wrong that sword has made shortbow (and even longbow, in many situations) virtually redundant.

I finally succumbed and bought a sword, and it is indeed far easier and more effective than trying to use a puny shortbow (and it is puny – there is no other word for it), but that does not make the situation right.

…and as a Ranger, who wants to range, it does not make me a happy bunny.

Starbird.4029:

Oh, and basically 1/2 of the guild is a guard for some reason.

That in itself should tell you something.

evilunderling.9265:

Tigaseye.2047:

While I find this game beautiful and imaginative, from a levelling/exploration POV, I find the group gameplay and class design an almost primative snorefest, which is only made difficult by the fact that I haven’t done the paths enough to know all the places to skip and stack, yet, have few defences in a stacking melee situation and suffer from poor fps.

Last I checked, stacking tightly in a corner was considered extremely distasteful and totally pointless.

It used to be a good idea, but nearly all of the skills that benefited from fighting enemies in a corner or up against a wall were nerfed months ago.

Rangers also have some traits (+10% power damage vs. flanked enemies, for example) that specifically require them not to stack.

As for bears, plonking a 54k hp sack of meat down in front of your group is far from the worst way to deal with certain threats (unblockable projectile spam, for example).

Well, I would totally agree with you.

But almost everyone I encounter disagrees.

Even in my current guild, I have to listen to certain members constantly laughing about bearangers (or whatever they call them) and going on about them not stacking and using longbows, like that is some kind of crime.

Also, everything their pet does is considered their fault, even though it is totally unreasonable to expect a Ranger to be able to micromanage their pet and do any damage.

If there are issues with the pet, that is due to either its design, or the design of the game in general, which has not been made pet AI-friendly enough.

The knockback thing I can somewhat understand and I have tried not to use it in groups (or only when absolutely necessary), but isn’t it funny that it’s apparently fine for other players to pull mobs towards them (even if that reduces our potential to do as much damage, with longbow), but it is not considered OK for Rangers to do the equivalent, by knocking back?

As I say, the whole thing needs a total rework, as currently melee is considered by most to be absolute king (and given buffs are gained from stacking and that melee has been made to do more damage than ranged, who can even argue with that?) and anyone who tries to do anything else is just considered a noobish annoyance.

This needs to change.

At sub level 80 dungeons, I would gladly replace the warrior with a ranger, considering this factor:

- Fight is too short and skip is too fast. The banners, the sole reason to bring the warrior (aside from the kittenty Empowered Allies build), are simply not off cool down for half of the fight. Meanwhile Frost Spirit has shorter cool down so the damage buff is quite persistent.

- With the way adrenaline currently working, warrior’s burst is a joke. Nowadays, I use Healing Surge to ensure that my 100b actually deals some damage in team fight. On that regard, ranger opening burst is simply much better and they can even start it before engaging the enemy (aka. precasting Long bow 5-2 → Signet-QZ → Path of Scars → finally auto attack). So much damage, so many vuln in a very short ramp up.

- With its decent amount of damage modifier, I would gladly to let the ranger pick up the ice bow. If it was the warrior or the guard, sorry take this slap in the wrist and a second slap in the face if they talk back.

- Unless you go for the EU meta (PS warrior and two staff ele), then well, excuse me, no comments.

Alright, now let’s talk about the points that I have made NoTrigger (our famed DnT resident guard, former rT -eh- player) sneer at me. No doubts he’s a very good guardian, but he just doesn’t play a ranger as well as Swiftpaw, both of whom will be the examples of my comparison.

I said:

it requires more situation awareness, better reflection damage, better CC overall

• CC: the only CC worth used against the boss at the current game build is Deep Freeze (elementalist’s ice bow #5) and all the other CC serve as peeling Defiant stack. Thief is unarguably the best for this job with Headshot is the easiest spammable CC in the game. However, there are two problems. First, the thief with max DPS build can only remove 4 stacks of defiance at one time. Second, there is a bug that every thieves are aware of: Headshot would sometimes stop remove the Defiant stack even if the shot connects and initiative spent. It would be up to your teammate to remove the defiance. Warrior’s mace 5 is okay, not a loss in DPS but it affects your rotation. However, both guard and ele’s CC will result in their loss of DPS. Ranger’s Path of Scar has short CD and is also a part of their DPS. If the fight is long (for example, the Icebrood boss or Andal in HotW p2) then even long bow’s push back come in handy to remove defiance.

• Better reflection damage: if both guardian and ranger was to stand in front of the Legendary Jotun to reflect its damage then ranger would win hands down. Even back when Marolna’s poison spit is reflectable, the ranger was one of those who can kill her the fastest and guardian couldn’t even compete. If we talk about who can provide more reflect between the two classes, guardian surely wins, only because the fight lasts long enough to require a second reflect. Then it is meant for protection, not damage.

• Situation Awareness: It is rather challenging to play a ranger. You provide buff like a warrior, so you need to pick up your spirit and know where to place it. You can provide reflect like a mesmer or guard but it’s not your primary job so you put it in queue. You have to micromanage your pet. You can provide a heal burst and condi cleanse but have to make sure not to interfere with the ele’s fire field. Most of the time, you try to max out your damage but not put others into the harm way (like, not using greatsword for Lupi melee). When your teammate fails to pull, you can fill in the job too.

Last but not least, here is a great display of the ranger’s mobility: https://youtu.be/g8J2RkYUSAE