Guild Wars 2

This is a mini rant, I’ve been playing this game for about 2 years, and I feel as though drops for ANYTHING good is honestly ridiculous, the RNG is too much.

Yet these recipes for things are 250 globs of ecto, 250 of any tier 6 material. I dont understand it, does anyone truly like the way drops work in this game? I highly doubt it.

Dungeons: 1g-3g per path. (Woah one gold awesome :|)
World Bosses: 1g (Plus additional blues and greens, because we all know the RNG will not allow you to get anything better.)
Silverwastes: Champion Bag after Champion bag, that gives you guessed it, MORE blues/greens thats sell for 5s, 20c.

I’m sort of getting a little irritated with these drop rates for ANYTHING good.

Why should I have to grind silverwastes for 20hours just to get 5g, that’s ridiculous.

TOO MUCH WORK, NOT ENOUGH REWARD
TOO MUCH WORK, THE REWARD IS BAD.

Have you tried just playing the game for fun? Just find the content that is fun for you (I know, novel concept for a game, right? ) and play that as long as you enjoy it, then find something else you enjoy.

Funnily, I’ve played this game that way for close to three years, and whenever I check my account bank and wallet, I find stuff keeps piling up without me noticing. In fact I do have several stacks of ectos and t6 materials in my material bank that came exclusively from playing for fun. So in addition to having fun in my play-time, I can go and craft/buy/trade for something nice every now and then, too.

Hypothetically, what would you consider ‘good rewards’? Let’s examine two cases:

Case 1, gold is abundant. Each monster now drops 10g on death. In 2 days you now have tens of thousands of gold. You feel RICH! Except now skins on TP cost hundreds of thousands of gold, gold to gem ratio is now 100 to 1 and…nothing actually changed. You’ve added several 0’es to your bank account, and similarly increased the prices across the board. The system has leveled itself off and you are no richer than before.

Case 2 – EVERYTHING is abundant. Exotics drop like rain, legendaries are rewarded for doing dynamic events, ghastly grinning shields, BL keys and dyes are sold on vendors for coppers. Everyone has everything. Great! Except this game has very little long term content. Once everyone has all the shinies, they simply quit because there is only so many times you can run a dungeon, fractal or SW when there is no longer any reward in doing so. Game is deserted other than occasional roleplayer or a new player who has not gone through the limited content available.

Lets face it, certain amount of treadmill is necessary for every MMO. GW2 does a fairly good job at making it a light treadmill where most things are reasonably achievable (with a few exceptions). Risk vs reward is a very tough thing balance and I think GW2 does a reasonable job at.

Zania.8461:

Hypothetically, what would you consider ‘good rewards’? Let’s examine two cases:

Case 1, gold is abundant. Each monster now drops 10g on death. In 2 days you now have tens of thousands of gold. You feel RICH! Except now skins on TP cost hundreds of thousands of gold, gold to gem ratio is now 100 to 1 and…nothing actually changed. You’ve added several 0’es to your bank account, and similarly increased the prices across the board. The system has leveled itself off and you are no richer than before.

Case 2 – EVERYTHING is abundant. Exotics drop like rain, legendaries are rewarded for doing dynamic events, ghastly grinning shields, BL keys and dyes are sold on vendors for coppers. Everyone has everything. Great! Except this game has very little long term content. Once everyone has all the shinies, they simply quit because there is only so many times you can run a dungeon, fractal or SW when there is no longer any reward in doing so. Game is deserted other than occasional roleplayer or a new player who has not gone through the limited content available.

Lets face it, certain amount of treadmill is necessary for every MMO. GW2 does a fairly good job at making it a light treadmill where most things are reasonably achievable (with a few exceptions). Risk vs reward is a very tough thing balance and I think GW2 does a reasonable job at.

While I hate RNG as much as the next person, you have said that so well. I know I certainly would have quit by now if there was no grind for skins, as I’ve already completed the content I want to, and the rest is just repeating the same content, except I’m doing it for the rewards instead of just experiencing the content again.

The first scenario is ok to start with, but as you experience the shift in the economy it is pretty horrid. I played TERA for a while, and the economy there is pretty much like in scenario 1. Once you get to level ~50 gold starts dropping like flies. You feel rich, then you check the auction house for cool skins, and the ones you want are hundreds of thousands of gold. Then you feel poor again.

Tell you what, I’m really glad they’re changing the way we obtain fractal weapons. One of my friends does nothing but fractals – he has since they came out – and he is still missing the dagger. The day after he tells me this, one of our guildies gets a fractal dagger. RNGsus was obviously frowning upon him (though it is pretty funny!).

Zania.8461:

Risk vs reward is a very tough thing balance and I think GW2 does a reasonable job at.

Actually GW2 does an awful job at risk vs reward balance. Take a look at Sorrow’s Embrace explorable path rewards for a great example. Or most dungeon path rewards for that matter, it’s just that SE is the worst offender, but all dungeon path rewards are pathetic. Same goes for rewards in Fractals, the only way to make it reasonably “good” is to sell spots (there is a thread on this on the front page).

It’s a good thing that they identified some of the core issues with the reward system of the game. They are adding the new map reward system (which is awesome), the new way to get fractal skins, precursor collections etc. Slowly they are moving towards a better and more rewarding game, that’s great because at the moment the reward system is just horrible.

Well, I think if drops were easy to get, then the prices would still inflate… so you would get the same scenario…

This is my problem, why do more challenging contents (Fractals 50) give the same rewards as easy contents like dungeons/world bosses (where you literally just stand there spamming the 1 key)?

Or like in WvW, where it’s much more challenging than PVE, but you simply get a rock or something stupid that sells for 3copper.

It’s ridiculous.

They are only “pathetic” because you set your expectations high to begin with. If you remember them from the early days you should know they were nerfed to these levels because they were run so frequently back then that the influx of coin and items from them were disrupting the economy.

koSTEEZ.2041:

does anyone truly like the way drops work in this game?

The rant behind your rant is about Legendaries. So my short answer is “No – no one actually ‘likes’ the way drops work in this game”.

Legendaries are lame anyway – it’s FAR more strategic (and easier AND cheaper) to craft multiple Ascended greatswords/whatever for different purposes with different Sigils and do a quick swap than it is to change the stats from the drop down on the Legendary itself (and with the Legendary, you are locked into the same Sigils).

Anet keeps the economy the way it is because they make real world money through it.

Behellagh.1468:

They are only “pathetic” because you set your expectations high to begin with. If you remember them from the early days you should know they were nerfed to these levels because they were run so frequently back then that the influx of coin and items from them were disrupting the economy.

The dungeon rewards were never nerfed, nor changed since they were introduced. The devs said they will be watching them and make adjustments as needed, but no adjustments were ever made to them.

The fact that EVERYTHING is on the gold standard is where the problem is. I’ve seen maybe 6 exotics as drops over 3 years of playing. I used to have Magic Find gear, and these days I don’t leave Lion’s Arch unless I’m rocking 200+ MF. It’s a sea of blues and greens for me. I’ve done dungeon grinds, silverwaste grinds, Queensdale trains, etc. You name it, I farmed it. And you know how I finally got my T6 Mats? I converted 4,400 gems into gold so I could buy them because THREE YEARS of gameplay was not enough to farm them.

Three years of gameplay<$55

Seriously?

maddoctor.2738:

Behellagh.1468:

They are only “pathetic” because you set your expectations high to begin with. If you remember them from the early days you should know they were nerfed to these levels because they were run so frequently back then that the influx of coin and items from them were disrupting the economy.

The dungeon rewards were never nerfed, nor changed since they were introduced. The devs said they will be watching them and make adjustments as needed, but no adjustments were ever made to them.

Sorry, the ability to run a path them an unlimited number of times on an account and get the full reward was changed.

Anything with a good drop rate is worthless BECAUSE it has a good drop rate. There’s nothing that can be done about it. It’s basic supply and demand.

maddoctor.2738:

Behellagh.1468:

They are only “pathetic” because you set your expectations high to begin with. If you remember them from the early days you should know they were nerfed to these levels because they were run so frequently back then that the influx of coin and items from them were disrupting the economy.

The dungeon rewards were never nerfed, nor changed since they were introduced. The devs said they will be watching them and make adjustments as needed, but no adjustments were ever made to them.

Dungeon rewards have been nerfed and/or revamped over 6 times since launch…

This latest solution was their final attempt before they abandoned dungeons completely.

To the OP: each dungeon run gives 1g, and takes about 8 minutes with a competent group. Do 10 dungeons a day and you earn 10g in less than 2 hours. Sell all your drops and mats and now you are up to 12-15g in less than 2 hours. Convert your dungeon tokens into rares and now you are up to 18g in under 2 hours. Congrats in 2 hours of play you can now afford 6 exotics or a full set of endgame armor!

Do this every day for a month and now you have 18×30 = 540g by only playing 2 hours a day, enough to buy a full set of ascended armor, or almost any precursor you want.

Seems like a perfectly reasonable reward rate to me.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Dungeon rewards have been nerfed and/or revamped over 6 times since launch…

I was talking about the final reward which was never changed.

As for the other dungeon rewards, that still doesn’t mean their risk vs reward is good. A dungeon that takes 8 minutes rewards 1g and a dungeon that takes 30 min rewards 1.5g
So much for risk vs reward

Behellagh.1468:

maddoctor.2738:

Behellagh.1468:

They are only “pathetic” because you set your expectations high to begin with. If you remember them from the early days you should know they were nerfed to these levels because they were run so frequently back then that the influx of coin and items from them were disrupting the economy.

The dungeon rewards were never nerfed, nor changed since they were introduced. The devs said they will be watching them and make adjustments as needed, but no adjustments were ever made to them.

Sorry, the ability to run a path them an unlimited number of times on an account and get the full reward was changed.

Add to that the bosses used to drop flat out 15 silver each that you could affect with gold% food that are now locked behind daily reward chest thats not affected by said gold% food
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Omnomberry_Bar

I see hardly any use for 66% of the added bonuses on the linked food nowdays

SonOfJacob.7396:

koSTEEZ.2041:

does anyone truly like the way drops work in this game?

“No – no one actually ‘likes’ the way drops work in this game”.

Speak for yourself. I think it’s about as well balanced as I could hope.

RNG is RNG. Like anything else, its a gamble. Personally I never did care about how much in game gold I have, as I learned a long time ago it didn’t really matter. Besides I’m a hoarder…if its shiny, its probably in my bank somewhere lol.

maddoctor.2738:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Dungeon rewards have been nerfed and/or revamped over 6 times since launch…

I was talking about the final reward which was never changed.

As for the other dungeon rewards, that still doesn’t mean their risk vs reward is good. A dungeon that takes 8 minutes rewards 1g and a dungeon that takes 30 min rewards 1.5g
So much for risk vs reward

The end rewards where changed, see before you where able to run X Dungeon and at the end you where guaranteed a set amount of that Dungeons “Currency” AKA Tokens… and the Gold ect. you got was the same, even if you farmed say CoF P1 OVER and OVER, the rewards at the end for completion where the SAME. Now, once you’ve done a path once, your end rewards will be less and less as you do them, heck you can only open the Chests on the first time through…

Now to make money people play the market, and flood it with mats and such they get from SW, but soon ANet will nerf SW, like they did all other farmable spots, such as Pent/Shelt, and the Champ Trains.

They need to make doing things in this game rewarding again, people used to love to flood the dungeons and fractals, there was ALWAYS lots of people by the dungeons and fractal entry, now very few. Boss Events used to command the entire maps max player, and now you’ll have 1/3 of what was there before.

Works like this:

In most MMOs you grind because your equipment sucks.

In GW2 you grind because your equipment is ugly.

Sucky equipment prevents you from doing content.

Ugly equipment does not.

Thus, the loot acquisition rate in GW2 is built around encouraging you to do a wide range of content rather than farm the highest gold per hour so you can rank up to the next tier.

If you’re grinding content you find boring to maximize drops, you’re choosing to do that. The game isn’t preventing you from going and doing other content that you find fun.

Superfrick.1536:

The fact that EVERYTHING is on the gold standard is where the problem is. I’ve seen maybe 6 exotics as drops over 3 years of playing. I used to have Magic Find gear, and these days I don’t leave Lion’s Arch unless I’m rocking 200+ MF. It’s a sea of blues and greens for me. I’ve done dungeon grinds, silverwaste grinds, Queensdale trains, etc. You name it, I farmed it. And you know how I finally got my T6 Mats? I converted 4,400 gems into gold so I could buy them because THREE YEARS of gameplay was not enough to farm them.

Three years of gameplay<$55

Seriously?

I hope you´ve not really just dropped meager 6 exo drops in 3 years, most people I know drop 6 exos in a slow month.

If so, /hug ^^

Torolan.5816:

Superfrick.1536:

The fact that EVERYTHING is on the gold standard is where the problem is. I’ve seen maybe 6 exotics as drops over 3 years of playing. I used to have Magic Find gear, and these days I don’t leave Lion’s Arch unless I’m rocking 200+ MF. It’s a sea of blues and greens for me. I’ve done dungeon grinds, silverwaste grinds, Queensdale trains, etc. You name it, I farmed it. And you know how I finally got my T6 Mats? I converted 4,400 gems into gold so I could buy them because THREE YEARS of gameplay was not enough to farm them.

Three years of gameplay<$55

Seriously?

I hope you´ve not really just dropped meager 6 exo drops in 3 years, most people I know drop 6 exos in a slow month.

If so, /hug ^^

Because of posts saying they never got any exotics, for a month I kept a record of each exotic I got and where. I did get several exotics in that month but each one was from a container. They were from either a champ bag or a meta boss reward container. The number you get from killing mobs is extremely small and if people are getting 6 a month it’s from containers, not drops.

tl:dr

Grind dungeons and SW and buy what you need.

GW1 had specific farming but GW2 has no specific farming at all so grind the popular things like SW and dungeons and buy whatever you want.

Now go grind !!!

PopeUrban.2578:

Works like this:

In most MMOs you grind because your equipment sucks.

In GW2 you grind because your equipment is ugly.

Sucky equipment prevents you from doing content.

Ugly equipment does not.

Thus, the loot acquisition rate in GW2 is built around encouraging you to do a wide range of content rather than farm the highest gold per hour so you can rank up to the next tier.

If you’re grinding content you find boring to maximize drops, you’re choosing to do that. The game isn’t preventing you from going and doing other content that you find fun.

Only in a lot of those other MMORPGs you do not in fact “grind”, as in repeat content an insane amount of times, in order to get your gear, but there are loot distribution systems that allow you to get what you are looking for after a set amount of runs (no token grind either).

The problem in GW2 isn’t the reward system itself but the way the loot is distributed, the fact that everyone rolls on their loot. Which is great in the open world and when you play solo, but it’s really punishing if you play with a group, especially a close group of friends. You see, in other game systems every time a member of your party gets an item, because of the distribution, you are one step closer in getting it yourself. If you have the worst luck, you will get what you are after once everyone else in your team (that also wants it) has it.

In GW2 that’s not the case at all. You might run content a million times and still not get what you are after, while your friend might run it less than ten times and get the item twice. If we didn’t roll at least for valuable account bound items (that have no monetary value, can’t be sold) it would be completely different and not feel like a grind. In other MMORPGs they want their boss fights to feel rewarding so they ALWAYS drop awesome loot, next it’s up to the team that killed it to distribute it among themselves.

The difference is simple: in other games boss mobs always drop awesome loot but in limited quantities so players have to distribute it. In GW2 since everyone rolls on their own loot tables, it feels like a grind and praying to the RNG gods to get anything, in order to keep items rare.

Torolan.5816:

I hope you´ve not really just dropped meager 6 exo drops in 3 years, most people I know drop 6 exos in a slow month.

If so, /hug ^^

I find these claims don’t hold up under scrutiny.

koSTEEZ.2041:

This is a mini rant, I’ve been playing this game for about 2 years, and I feel as though drops for ANYTHING good is honestly ridiculous, the RNG is too much.

Yet these recipes for things are 250 globs of ecto, 250 of any tier 6 material. I dont understand it, does anyone truly like the way drops work in this game? I highly doubt it.

Dungeons: 1g-3g per path. (Woah one gold awesome :|)
World Bosses: 1g (Plus additional blues and greens, because we all know the RNG will not allow you to get anything better.)
Silverwastes: Champion Bag after Champion bag, that gives you guessed it, MORE blues/greens thats sell for 5s, 20c.

I’m sort of getting a little irritated with these drop rates for ANYTHING good.

Why should I have to grind silverwastes for 20hours just to get 5g, that’s ridiculous.

TOO MUCH WORK, NOT ENOUGH REWARD
TOO MUCH WORK, THE REWARD IS BAD.

Hi

In this game its not about what you get or don’t get from drops, but what you do with it and how you use the multiplicative mechanisms, mainly crafting + TP but there are a couple minor ones here and there as well.

Best example: if you go farm silverwastes, then just sell everything you get, you end up at the extreme low end which is unfortunately as most people getting only 10-20g / hr.

But if you let everything stack appropriately, then use the available in-game mechanisms, then you will come out with a few hundred gold extra per whatever your stacking / farming period is which then when broken into per hour factor will come out to something between 40-60 gold pending RNG (and no, not talking about precursors) across not just your drops but the other factors within the game as well.

You just have to take a good long look at the game as a whole, rather then parts of it and stop throwing gold away by vendoring stuff you get.

Superfrick.1536:

The fact that EVERYTHING is on the gold standard is where the problem is. I’ve seen maybe 6 exotics as drops over 3 years of playing. I used to have Magic Find gear, and these days I don’t leave Lion’s Arch unless I’m rocking 200+ MF. It’s a sea of blues and greens for me. I’ve done dungeon grinds, silverwaste grinds, Queensdale trains, etc. You name it, I farmed it. And you know how I finally got my T6 Mats? I converted 4,400 gems into gold so I could buy them because THREE YEARS of gameplay was not enough to farm them.

Three years of gameplay<$55

Seriously?

I am surprised at your experience. I suppose it’s possible to have such bad luck as you describe. But it’s rare. Most people get an exotic drop at least around once a week in my experience (I get around 1 per day), and enough T6 mats for their ascended armor over the course of the time it takes them to get their characters to level 80, plus a month or so. Your experience is very unfortunate. Of course, it does depend on how often and how long you play!

GW2’s drop system does suck. I’ve always disliked it. But at the same time, I understand why they went this route and simply put, it’s because the large majority of content is an open-world zergfest. You have hundreds or thousands of players running the same content at the same time. Making a boss drop something exclusive would kill the exclusivity and its value a la most Champion Bag named exotics.

Of course, there’s a few that are considered ‘rare’ and have some value left like the Karka bows, Lord Taere’s Shadow, Genesis, etc. But that’s mainly because pure Champion farming has gone down a bit since the introduction of Silverwastes. That’s because the above weapons ( and more ) come from other Champion Bags like Orr for Genesis, a couple of Fractals for Razah’s Nightmare, etc. etc.

If you’re wanting to try and make some gold through drops, you might want to start ‘farming’ the Champions that drop those weapon skins when you’re bored. You could also go after Sam since they’ve ( sort of ) fixed the Ogre Wars event chain in Fields of Ruin though it was broken for me yesterday. There’s also the Dwayna stuff over in Orr, or pretty much anything in the Treasure Hunter Achievement.

Here’s some links:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Treasure_Hunter ( just click on what you’re interested in and see where it drops )

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grand_Weapon_Crate ( for prices on named Exotics )

Sariel V.7024:

Torolan.5816:

I hope you´ve not really just dropped meager 6 exo drops in 3 years, most people I know drop 6 exos in a slow month.

If so, /hug ^^

I find these claims don’t hold up under scrutiny.

Except that I kept every single exotic I came upon during gameplay and up until the point where you can unlock skins, I had 4 in my bank. I’m assuming along the way I tossed a couple of staves into the mystic forge to save on artificing in my quest for a bifrost. So 6 is a fair and honest assumption.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

SonOfJacob.7396:

koSTEEZ.2041:

does anyone truly like the way drops work in this game?

“No – no one actually ‘likes’ the way drops work in this game”.

Speak for yourself. I think it’s about as well balanced as I could hope.

Got anger?

Let me throw out this proposal. Dump MF altogether and link drops by tier and amount of time played. Only thing not to change is precursor drop rate. Should this be implemented account bound or character bound?
As an example, where first color reference is what drops now in game by RNG.

Played under 1k hrs – RNG is the same as it is now in game
Played 2k hrs – Blue drops now are green drops, green/yellow, yellow/exotic, exotic/ascended
Played 3k hrs – Blue drops now are yellow, green/exotic, exotic/ascended
Played 5k hrs – minimum drop exotics, what was green on up is ascended (which now becomes salvageable).

Think about it Anet!

curtegg.5216:

Let me throw out this proposal. Dump MF altogether and link drops by tier and amount of time played. Only thing not to change is precursor drop rate. Should this be implemented account bound or character bound?
As an example, where first color reference is what drops now in game by RNG.

Played under 1k hrs – RNG is the same as it is now in game
Played 2k hrs – Blue drops now are green drops, green/yellow, yellow/exotic, exotic/ascended
Played 3k hrs – Blue drops now are yellow, green/exotic, exotic/ascended
Played 5k hrs – minimum drop exotics, what was green on up is ascended (which now becomes salvageable).

Think about it Anet!

Just no, think about it blue greens are considered worthless since they drop so much if you up that to yellows they will be considered worthless aswell since anet would have to nerf ectos or remove them from yellows entierly.
Then do the same when majority of the people hit 3-5k and start to get exotic and ascended as candy.

Edit

And then people would be angry at yet another ascended why dont I get legendary items I played for so long they should drop now

Yeah the drops in this game really suck. You’re expected to salvage everything and slowly make gold. This isn’t as satisfying as the amazing item dropping by itself, which is practically never going to happen for most people. Most MMO’s do not use the GW2 “slow burn” style anymore. People want actual shiny stuff to drop off the hard monsters now and then, not once every 3 years.

Hopefully the new “Challenging Group Content” has a decent chance at ascended armor/weapons dropping, or tokens which can be converted to those items.

I have been playing for 3 years and I never have had anything worth over 50 gold drop for me. But yet, I have 1000s of gold and do not buy gems, do not micro flip, and do not farm farm as I do not have the time to labor in game or willing to spend real cash on the game. There are other ways to gain wealth in the game than drops. It takes some risks, patience, good spending habits, and critical thinking.

You can’t just “make drops good”. The RNG function is what controls the supply of the game and is a huge determinate of value. What makes something valuable is that its demand is in gross excess of supply. Common drops will always be worth next to nothing. Things hard to obtain from the game will be worth the most. If everyone that plays 5k hours had exotics and ascended rain upon them they would not be worth much and how would you adjust this years into the game?

The thing is, to have an economy, drops got to suck for most people and someone has to be left holding an empty bag for it to work.

Substatic.6958:

Hopefully the new “Challenging Group Content” has a decent chance at ascended armor/weapons dropping, or tokens which can be converted to those items.

Challenging Group Content is their best opportunity to create a new loot/reward system, that applies only to it, that is not about RNG and grind, but rewards players for overcoming hard challenges. A better distribution system would do wonders in this case.

Mireles Lore.5942:

The thing is, to have an economy, drops got to suck for most people and someone has to be left holding an empty bag for it to work.

Best quote in this thread. Completely agree for the economy to work.

SonOfJacob.7396:

Mireles Lore.5942:

The thing is, to have an economy, drops got to suck for most people and someone has to be left holding an empty bag for it to work.

Best quote in this thread. Completely agree for the economy to work.

Not all drops have to be part of the economy. The “best” rewards can be account-bound so only players who do specific content can get them, there is absolutely no reason to give every item a market value.

maddoctor.2738:

SonOfJacob.7396:

Mireles Lore.5942:

The thing is, to have an economy, drops got to suck for most people and someone has to be left holding an empty bag for it to work.

Best quote in this thread. Completely agree for the economy to work.

Not all drops have to be part of the economy. The “best” rewards can be account-bound so only players who do specific content can get them, there is absolutely no reason to give every item a market value.

But then you have players (they do exist) who go: “I don’t like that content, why is the item I want locked behind content I don’t like. The item should be tradeable or it should be achievable through all content.”

Seera.5916:

maddoctor.2738:

SonOfJacob.7396:

Mireles Lore.5942:

The thing is, to have an economy, drops got to suck for most people and someone has to be left holding an empty bag for it to work.

Best quote in this thread. Completely agree for the economy to work.

Not all drops have to be part of the economy. The “best” rewards can be account-bound so only players who do specific content can get them, there is absolutely no reason to give every item a market value.

But then you have players (they do exist) who go: “I don’t like that content, why is the item I want locked behind content I don’t like. The item should be tradeable or it should be achievable through all content.”

And that is one of the fundamental philosophies in the game. That’s where the often misused quote of “play your way” comes from. General rewards aren’t locked behind specific game play types. Combine that with RNG drops and the TP with it’s gold sink you end up with the economy we currently have.

I’ve seen estimates of gold per hour in Silverwastes as highas 10g/hour. While I suspect these are best-case scenarios or outright exaggerations, I also suspect that the return rate there is much higher than the OP’s 25 silver per hour.

Seera.5916:

maddoctor.2738:

SonOfJacob.7396:

Mireles Lore.5942:

The thing is, to have an economy, drops got to suck for most people and someone has to be left holding an empty bag for it to work.

Best quote in this thread. Completely agree for the economy to work.

Not all drops have to be part of the economy. The “best” rewards can be account-bound so only players who do specific content can get them, there is absolutely no reason to give every item a market value.

But then you have players (they do exist) who go: “I don’t like that content, why is the item I want locked behind content I don’t like. The item should be tradeable or it should be achievable through all content.”

With a good reward system, once a team has the appropriate reward from some content, they could run the content with less and less people required so in a guild environment they could take guild members that do not have the ability to do the content on their own, because they have a bad computer, terrible internet connection, health problems or anything else. That way everyone has access to the rewards AND they can experience the lore and story of the challenging content.

maddoctor.2738:

Seera.5916:

maddoctor.2738:

SonOfJacob.7396:

Mireles Lore.5942:

The thing is, to have an economy, drops got to suck for most people and someone has to be left holding an empty bag for it to work.

Best quote in this thread. Completely agree for the economy to work.

Not all drops have to be part of the economy. The “best” rewards can be account-bound so only players who do specific content can get them, there is absolutely no reason to give every item a market value.

But then you have players (they do exist) who go: “I don’t like that content, why is the item I want locked behind content I don’t like. The item should be tradeable or it should be achievable through all content.”

With a good reward system, once a team has the appropriate reward from some content, they could run the content with less and less people required so in a guild environment they could take guild members that do not have the ability to do the content on their own, because they have a bad computer, terrible internet connection, health problems or anything else. That way everyone has access to the rewards AND they can experience the lore and story of the challenging content.

But the players that don’t like Content X will still complain about having do Content X to get Item Y.

I’m not one of those players, but they do exist.

It sounds like OP is not selling his mats from his Silverwastes Runs, or converting his Dungeon tokens to $$.

maddoctor.2738:

PopeUrban.2578:

Works like this:

In most MMOs you grind because your equipment sucks.

In GW2 you grind because your equipment is ugly.

Sucky equipment prevents you from doing content.

Ugly equipment does not.

Thus, the loot acquisition rate in GW2 is built around encouraging you to do a wide range of content rather than farm the highest gold per hour so you can rank up to the next tier.

If you’re grinding content you find boring to maximize drops, you’re choosing to do that. The game isn’t preventing you from going and doing other content that you find fun.

Only in a lot of those other MMORPGs you do not in fact “grind”, as in repeat content an insane amount of times, in order to get your gear, but there are loot distribution systems that allow you to get what you are looking for after a set amount of runs (no token grind either).

The problem in GW2 isn’t the reward system itself but the way the loot is distributed, the fact that everyone rolls on their loot. Which is great in the open world and when you play solo, but it’s really punishing if you play with a group, especially a close group of friends. You see, in other game systems every time a member of your party gets an item, because of the distribution, you are one step closer in getting it yourself. If you have the worst luck, you will get what you are after once everyone else in your team (that also wants it) has it.

In GW2 that’s not the case at all. You might run content a million times and still not get what you are after, while your friend might run it less than ten times and get the item twice. If we didn’t roll at least for valuable account bound items (that have no monetary value, can’t be sold) it would be completely different and not feel like a grind. In other MMORPGs they want their boss fights to feel rewarding so they ALWAYS drop awesome loot, next it’s up to the team that killed it to distribute it among themselves.

The difference is simple: in other games boss mobs always drop awesome loot but in limited quantities so players have to distribute it. In GW2 since everyone rolls on their own loot tables, it feels like a grind and praying to the RNG gods to get anything, in order to keep items rare.

What, precisely, are you trying to get to drop that isn’t tradable?

Literally the only thing I can think of that behaves in this manner are world boss drops and fractal skins. Fractal skins are being reworked to function on a token system. World boss drops are supposed to be excessively rare, and are simply alternate variations of crafted ascended skins with some sparkles.

If you’re bemoaning the impossible drop rates of precursors, yes, you are correct, however the HoT crafting mastery exists specifically to remedy that problem.

See, they used the system you want with fractal rings. You can drop the one you want, or you can save tokens and buy it. The problem then became everyone ended up with reams of duplicate untradable rings. Anet’s solution (and rightly so) is the upcoming ascended salvaging system.

The difference is that unlike a rolling system it removes the possibility that you don’t ever get the item you want because nobody in your party looted it this run, and thus you make no progress.

What you’re asking for is a return to the dark ages of DKP/Need/Greed/I can’t get the item even though I ran the dungeon 800 times. That is a HORRIBLE system as unlike the token system, which ensures you get exactly the loot you want, it creates a system where your entire tight knit group either ends up with reams of useless and untradable duplicates because everyone’s rolls were bad, or a lootsplosion system in which you end up with so many duplicate items that they’re meaningless as rewards.

Tokens, on the other hand, always have a built in continual sink for people that have already collected the set so that no matter what, there is always an intrinsic and unique reward for running the content.

I like running dungeons in MMOs. I like it more when the dungeons are challenging and have a good payoff. Loot distribution systems for bind on pickup items create an active disincentive for people to run content that they’ve already got their items from.

GW2 has dungeon problems, but none of them are related to the loot system. The problem is that the tokens don’t have enough compelling consumable sinks, and the content is both sparse and easily exploited for speed runs, the token costs are too high, and there is no chance to randomly loot a desired item to shortcut the token progression.

Silverwastes and dry top are shining examples of how they’re reworking the open world design to encourage and reward people well for zone play using the same token distribution system they used for dungeons. Silverwastes allows both purchase and drops of its content specific items, and the “bad drops” are still a pretty kitten handsome reward in and of themselves. not once have I left a silverwastes cycle and thought “man, this loot is bad”

The collections and season 2 mastry achievements systems are another great example of loot distribution systems that work well with GW2’s framework. They flip the formula and grant unique rewards for a wide range of content. In fact, the s2 mastrys should be the gold standard of how to add replayability to instances. Combining them with more random event systems in instances will create content that is just plain more compelling so you want to run it because it’s fun and not just for the shiny stick at the end.

I understand that you want to luck your way in to epic drops more often, but it’s just not how Anet operates the game. The loot system is built around salvaging and wide TP use where it doesn’t reward account bound items. Loot is on a slow burn just as it was in the original game because just as in the original game loot isn’t as mechanically important as other games.

Thinking of loot as the end goal is just not how GW2 is designed. Loot in GW2 is designed as a showy trophy, and showy trophies are meaningless when they’re easily achievable.

We don’t need a better loot distribution system. We need content hard enough to justify its special loot.

I think your problem is that you expect “good loot” to come primarily in the form of a single AMAZING item in a bag full of total trash. The current system in stead awards “good loot” primarily as a handful of “good” items in a bag full of trash, and allows you to use the trash to craft your own AMAZING item.

I’d much rather prefer to keep pulling in 10 or 11 rares per run and one or two exotics a week than pulling one exotic a run.

GW2 is not an item-centric economy. It is a material-centric economy, and items that live outside that economy already have a good fundamental system. That system just needs minor tweaks in a few places, and more importantly we need more challenging content to create non-tradable items that derive their worth from the difficulty of the content rather than the length of the grind.

Tokens and personal loot rolls aren’t the problem. Easily exploitable content with overly large token costs is.

PopeUrban.2578:

What, precisely, are you trying to get to drop that isn’t tradable?

Exactly the problem, there are too few things to get that aren’t tradeable. More bound things that you can only get through specific content is what the game needs. Of course a token system is also working, but it’s not used much in GW2. Aside from dungeon gear and fractal rings where is it used? The rest of the rewards are behind RNG/grind walls.

What you’re asking for is a return to the dark ages of DKP/Need/Greed/I can’t get the item even though I ran the dungeon 800 times. That is a HORRIBLE system as unlike the token system, which ensures you get exactly the loot you want, it creates a system where your entire tight knit group either ends up with reams of useless and untradable duplicates because everyone’s rolls were bad, or a lootsplosion system in which you end up with so many duplicate items that they’re meaningless as rewards.

I’m not comparing it with a token system, but the rest of the GW2 reward system, which is terrible because it’s pure RNG. During those “dark ages” there was far less RNG to get any kind of high quality item. Not to mention every time one of your team mates got a reward you were one step closer getting it yourself. Every run made it easier and easier to get an item you wanted, because other people in your group already had said item and didn’t roll for it. With a regular team of players you would get any item you wanted at most after <party size> runs. The Guild Wars 2 system is the one that you run content 800 times and never get anything, like Tequatl or Triple Trouble or any other world boss and another player might get the item 2 or 3 times in 5 runs. Such luck. I’m not against tokens, I’m against the “everyone rolls on their own loot table” system.

The collections and season 2 mastry achievements systems are another great example of loot distribution systems that work well with GW2’s framework. They flip the formula and grant unique rewards for a wide range of content. In fact, the s2 mastrys should be the gold standard of how to add replayability to instances. Combining them with more random event systems in instances will create content that is just plain more compelling so you want to run it because it’s fun and not just for the shiny stick at the end.

Yes collections, achievements and map rewards are a great step towards a better reward system, they are all great.

I understand that you want to luck your way in to epic drops more often, but it’s just not how Anet operates the game. The loot system is built around salvaging and wide TP use where it doesn’t reward account bound items. Loot is on a slow burn just as it was in the original game because just as in the original game loot isn’t as mechanically important as other games.

On the contrary I want to remove RNG and Grind from the epic drops. Luck and grind are my sworn enemies. With the “old” system I didn’t have to pray to the RNG gods to get a drop, or grind til my eyes bleed.

Tokens and personal loot rolls aren’t the problem. Easily exploitable content with overly large token costs is.

Personal loot rolls for items that have no market value are a major problem. We’ve all been there when you get a fractal weapon skin you don’t want, but a party member wants, and they get a fractal skin that you want, but they don’t. Easy solution to trade items without market value within a party. I guess they didn’t want something so simple and are adding more tokens.

Tokens have another major problem, they feel like a grind instead. It all depends on how many tokens you need for each item you want and how easily obtainable they are.

The old system were a boss can drop 1 of 7-20 dif items and you only need 1 of them only problem is so do 2-5 other people in your raid/group.

Yea you never had to pray for rng or grind at all /sarcasm off

It’s not about the quantity, it’s about the quality. I’m sick of salvaging a bazillion green items. In GW2 there’s no meaningful reward for your actions, you get spammed with same stuff everywhere.

Linken.6345:

The old system were a boss can drop 1 of 7-20 dif items and you only need 1 of them only problem is so do 2-5 other people in your raid/group.

Yea you never had to pray for rng or grind at all /sarcasm off

It depends on the game I guess, that’s why we can’t make an accurate comparison between systems.

In Lotro for example bosses dropped specific raid tokens with 100% chance every time. So one boss dropped raid boots, the next raid gloves etc. In a regular group of 12 you would get your boots at most after 12 runs. Sooner if some of them run the raids on their own without you, or longer if you run with pugs. But even with pugs as time progressed and people got their raid boots, your time was getting closer and closer. After each run you made some progress.

In the random roll GW2 system you might never get a drop you want. Not in a million years and there is nothing you can do about it.

Make gold without much rng effect – harvest nodes – sell on TP. Enjoy the game as your harvesting.

Basic mats from nodes sell well on TP.

Use gold to buy that special shiny you want.

Exotics should drop more often because they aren’t the best statistical loot anymore.

maddoctor.2738:

Linken.6345:

The old system were a boss can drop 1 of 7-20 dif items and you only need 1 of them only problem is so do 2-5 other people in your raid/group.

Yea you never had to pray for rng or grind at all /sarcasm off

It depends on the game I guess, that’s why we can’t make an accurate comparison between systems.

In Lotro for example bosses dropped specific raid tokens with 100% chance every time. So one boss dropped raid boots, the next raid gloves etc. In a regular group of 12 you would get your boots at most after 12 runs. Sooner if some of them run the raids on their own without you, or longer if you run with pugs. But even with pugs as time progressed and people got their raid boots, your time was getting closer and closer. After each run you made some progress.

In the random roll GW2 system you might never get a drop you want. Not in a million years and there is nothing you can do about it.

Oh but you do gw2 got a token system aswell you run your dungeon get tokens by what ever item you want.