Guild Wars 2

I feel like GW1 players that are now playing GW2, feel kind of bleh because GW1 was so power after max level without gear treadmill.

Yeah you could get level 20 in about 5 hours. But legitly, if you followed through the story in GW1, you were level 20 around the halfway point of the game. So you had more missions to do @ level 20 which made it seem like it was max level end-game, but also had some heavy story and lore elements to it. The amount of missions you had left to do, were quite a bit too. They even had a way to feel like you were still beefing up your character, without actually giving you a gear treadmill.

In GW1, you fought your doppelganger to become ascended. You also had to infuse your max armor, to withstand the attacks from the Mursaat, or go into Extra Hard Mode missions. Zero gear treadmill, still ways to make ur character feel like he is getting new stuff, or getting more powerful. It was all free too!

In Factions, you had to become Weh No Su, or “closer to the stars”, to become powerful enough to fight the end game boss Shiro.

In Nightfall, you became Hunted, this is the weakest of all the “feel more powerful things”, but you basically go behind enemy lines, and setup a Sunspear command post, anchoring an eventual retaliation against Varresh.

In EotN, you had to recruit 3 new factions/races to help fight off a new enemy that was brewing in the depths of tyria. This was more of a “power in numbers” type of thing, you basically went around to the Asura, Norn, and Ebon Vanguard and helped them deal with their problems, to earn their respect, and return the favor by helping you fight off the destroyers that were threatening the Dwarves.

So in GW1, it was 4 feelings of accomplishments.
1) Hell Yeah, I hit lvl 20.
2) Hell yeah, I am ascended. I have the favor of the gods upon me.
3) Hell yeah, I am infused. Time to woop some Mursaat kitten
4) Hell yeah, I defeated the Lich. (by this time, you felt like you had had enough end game on this character, jk new campaign ALL max level stuff again, which was a good thing)

Right now in Guild Wars 2 its:
1) Hell yeah, become the highest rank in my Order
2) Hell Yeah, Setup a military Pact base on the edge of Orr.
3) Hell Yeah, Hit max level!
4) Hell Yeah, killed Zhaitan
5) Ummm, max level means more stuff to do right?

The problem, you don’t feel like it is making your character stronger on top of already being at it’s full potential. You were probably thinking Lightbringer at level 50? HA! Commander of the Pact at level 60? HA! I need to be level 80, then i can woop some kitten

For GW2, you guys should have let us hit 80, or a lower max level, right around the time when we pick which Order we are going into, or a little bit before.

So it would have been:
1) Hell yeah! Hit max level! (40)
(what would have been 10 levels)
2) Hell yeah! Achieved Lightbringer/Warmaster/Magister in my Order!
(what would have been 10 levels)
3) Hell yeah! Recruited all the Orders into a unified Pact! Earned rank of Commander!
(what would have been 10 levels)
3) Hell yeah! Established a military Pact base on the edge of Orr!
(what would have been 10 levels)
4) Hell yeah! Fight through Orr to kill Zhaitan.
5) Man that was a lot of stuff to do at max level.

This theory would make the current level 40, i believe, max level. Then 40+ would have been ALL endgame, with significant story. Then your order rank, pact rank, and killing zhaitan, AFTER all that “endgame” would have been that much more sweet.

Plus it would make more sense for a max level character to be able to become the highest rank in an order and pact, than a character who only is half or 3/4 his eventual potential :P

~~~~Realization after making post~~~~
A lot of the story elements in GW2 are just recycled from GW1.

Ascension/Infused = Being used as a gear treadmill
Weh No Su = Trahearne getting Caladbolg
Sunspear Command Post = Fort Trinity
EotN Recruitment = Order Recruitment into Pact/Recruitment of Quaggan, Skritt, Ogres, Hylek, Grawl

Sorry for the long post! Cheers!

Not just that but the difficulty of the content once you hit 80 is a bit meh too.

As a GW player, here’s my take.

I enjoyed GW’s “deck building” skill system. I loved the lower level cap, and all of the tightly-focused balance that brought. I liked the “less is more” approach of runes, again they were tightly focused and balanced. For some masochistic reason, I kind of (not wholly) miss Vanquishing. And I greatly miss heroes. Heroes gave me a chance to play around with classes I never intended to play.

I prefer the sideways progression of gear in GW, but I dislike the vast number of useless or redundant skills. The writing I find equally bad in both, but I like the little touches and the presentation more in GW2 more than in GW.

In everything else, from the combat mechanics to world exploration, I think GW2 trumps GW. For me, and this is of course just my opinion, I think GW2 is the better game by a great many miles.

maybe once an expansion comes out, and hopefully, they don’t raise the level cap….people can see that as the “endgame” and the first game will be the leveling part with killing Zhaitan and dinging 80 being seen as some sort of Dragonslayer rank or whatever in the expansion

meaning each expansion just adds more personal story, story and lore, but it is a full 40 levels equivalent or so worths of content, but ALL at max level, making it more stuff to do once you hit 80

Different game, different goals…
I have no qualms with the GW2 level cap as long as it never increases.

GW2 needs more polish and content.

darkace.8925:

As a GW player, here’s my take.

I enjoyed GW’s “deck building” skill system. I loved the lower level cap, and all of the tightly-focused balance that brought. I liked the “less is more” approach of runes, again they were tightly focused and balanced. For some masochistic reason, I kind of (not wholly) miss Vanquishing. And I greatly miss heroes. Heroes gave me a chance to play around with classes I never intended to play.

I prefer the sideways progression of gear in GW, but I dislike the vast number of useless or redundant skills. The writing I find equally bad in both, but I like the little touches and the presentation more in GW2 more than in GW.

In everything else, from the combat mechanics to world exploration, I think GW2 trumps GW. For me, and this is of course just my opinion, I think GW2 is the better game by a great many miles.

yeah, i’m suprised i miss vanquishing as well, it seemed i loathed it at the time….and for some odd reason, i miss showing off by doing Drok’s runs too, plus them tips were sexy

it does seem there were greater combinations of “builds” in GW1, i think i had Interrupt, Condition AoE, Condition Single Target, Dmg Single Target, Dmg AoE, Runner, Pet, Spirit Spammer, Off monk specs on just my ranger….thats 8 builds for one character….in this game i have 2, Power or Condition

Guild Wars 1 had a plethora of things to do for the sake of acomplishment rather than advancement and even more things to do for the sake of pure aesthetics. In Guild Wars 2, I find myself running dungeons for specific stat combinations, pushing through Fractals again and again to get the next upgrade for each of my alts. In fact, there doesn’t seem to be an end to it.

In that sense, Guild Wars 2 sometimes feels like work, rather than play.

However, there are bits of content which really do appeal to me. Map completion, jumping puzzles; those feel like achievements and the exploration is rewarding in its own way too. The combat is a lot more active and I really enjoy that (though I do miss hexes and the ‘shutdown’ playstyle). For all that I feel forced to do it, Fractals is inventive and enjoyable with a good group. The monthly updates keep me checking the news too.

For me gw1 was all about aquiring skills and making new builds. I mean one look at the old PvX Wiki (http://www.gwpvx.com/PvX_wiki) gives you a glimpse at the huge scope of builds available.

You got to max lvl quickly, and the gear was easy to aquire but hunting down and capturing every elite skill for your class took a good amount of time and coming up with new skill combinations to counter your foes seemed to never end.

For better or worse, that just isn’t present in this game.

Jordo.5913:

I feel like GW1 players that are now playing GW2, feel kind of bleh because GW1 was so power after max level without gear treadmill.

Yeah you could get level 20 in about 5 hours. But legitly, if you followed through the story in GW1, you were level 20 around the halfway point of the game. So you had more missions to do @ level 20 which made it seem like it was max level end-game, but also had some heavy story and lore elements to it. The amount of missions you had left to do, were quite a bit too. They even had a way to feel like you were still beefing up your character, without actually giving you a gear treadmill.

In GW1, you fought your doppelganger to become ascended. You also had to infuse your max armor, to withstand the attacks from the Mursaat, or go into Extra Hard Mode missions. Zero gear treadmill, still ways to make ur character feel like he is getting new stuff, or getting more powerful. It was all free too!

In Factions, you had to become Weh No Su, or “closer to the stars”, to become powerful enough to fight the end game boss Shiro.

In Nightfall, you became Hunted, this is the weakest of all the “feel more powerful things”, but you basically go behind enemy lines, and setup a Sunspear command post, anchoring an eventual retaliation against Varresh.

In EotN, you had to recruit 3 new factions/races to help fight off a new enemy that was brewing in the depths of tyria. This was more of a “power in numbers” type of thing, you basically went around to the Asura, Norn, and Ebon Vanguard and helped them deal with their problems, to earn their respect, and return the favor by helping you fight off the destroyers that were threatening the Dwarves.

So in GW1, it was 4 feelings of accomplishments.
1) Hell Yeah, I hit lvl 20.
2) Hell yeah, I am ascended. I have the favor of the gods upon me.
3) Hell yeah, I am infused. Time to woop some Mursaat kitten
4) Hell yeah, I defeated the Lich. (by this time, you felt like you had had enough end game on this character, jk new campaign ALL max level stuff again, which was a good thing)

Right now in Guild Wars 2 its:
1) Hell yeah, become the highest rank in my Order
2) Hell Yeah, Setup a military Pact base on the edge of Orr.
3) Hell Yeah, Hit max level!
4) Hell Yeah, killed Zhaitan
5) Ummm, max level means more stuff to do right?

The problem, you don’t feel like it is making your character stronger on top of already being at it’s full potential. You were probably thinking Lightbringer at level 50? HA! Commander of the Pact at level 60? HA! I need to be level 80, then i can woop some kitten

For GW2, you guys should have let us hit 80, or a lower max level, right around the time when we pick which Order we are going into, or a little bit before.

So it would have been:
1) Hell yeah! Hit max level! (40)
(what would have been 10 levels)
2) Hell yeah! Achieved Lightbringer/Warmaster/Magister in my Order!
(what would have been 10 levels)
3) Hell yeah! Recruited all the Orders into a unified Pact! Earned rank of Commander!
(what would have been 10 levels)
3) Hell yeah! Established a military Pact base on the edge of Orr!
(what would have been 10 levels)
4) Hell yeah! Fight through Orr to kill Zhaitan.
5) Man that was a lot of stuff to do at max level.

This theory would make the current level 40, i believe, max level. Then 40+ would have been ALL endgame, with significant story. Then your order rank, pact rank, and killing zhaitan, AFTER all that “endgame” would have been that much more sweet.

Plus it would make more sense for a max level character to be able to become the highest rank in an order and pact, than a character who only is half or 3/4 his eventual potential :P

~~~~Realization after making post~~~~
A lot of the story elements in GW2 are just recycled from GW1.

Ascension/Infused = Being used as a gear treadmill
Weh No Su = Trahearne getting Caladbolg
Sunspear Command Post = Fort Trinity
EotN Recruitment = Order Recruitment into Pact/Recruitment of Quaggan, Skritt, Ogres, Hylek, Grawl

Sorry for the long post! Cheers!

Don’t add me to this mix. Yeah, I’m a GW1 player and I love GW2.

I’m another long time Guild Wars 1 player, who likes Guild Wars 2 more.

First of all, you can only really compare Guild Wars 2 to Prophecies at launch. At this point in it’s development, Factions wasn’t out yet. And a lot of people seem to be comparing four games with one. Take away professions like the Rit, sin and dervish and see how many people are still saying Guild Wars 1 was much better. Certainly not as many PVe people.

25 missions, no hard mode. That’s what you had. And the mission bonuses were annoying and story breaking in some cases. Many were badly done (particularly in Nightfall).

Sorrow’s Furnace and hard mode weren’t there at launch. There weren’t 8 dungeons. There wasn’t five races and starting areas. And though the personal story is uneven, some of them are pretty good (while others are not). That being said, there are only so many times I could play through pre, even though some people loved it. At least here I have five zones to play around in.

I did like the skill system in Guild Wars 1 and loved making builds. It was my favorite part of the game. But it wasn’t enough to compensate for the incredible lack of necessary game functions, like marketplaces and jumping. The last thing I wanted to do was stand around Spamadan all day, trying to sell a bunch of stuff, instead of playing.

There was plenty wrong with Guild Wars 1. It was still one of the best games of its time but I think too many people remember it with rose-colored glasses on, and even more, many are comparing the full range of games that appear over a couple of years with what we’re seeing in Guild Wars 2 after six months.

In two years, I think this game is going to rock.

25 missions that were great played with others.
No marketplace, Nothing like a hard day farming then off to sell your wears and relax for a bit.
Farming, nuff said.
Someone mentioned droks run, challenging runs were fntastic content in themselves.

Yeah it had bad things but so many good things got thrown out for gw2.

Vayne.8563:

I’m another long time Guild Wars 1 player, who likes Guild Wars 2 more.

First of all, you can only really compare Guild Wars 2 to Prophecies at launch. At this point in it’s development, Factions wasn’t out yet. And a lot of people seem to be comparing four games with one. Take away professions like the Rit, sin and dervish and see how many people are still saying Guild Wars 1 was much better. Certainly not as many PVe people.

25 missions, no hard mode. That’s what you had. And the mission bonuses were annoying and story breaking in some cases. Many were badly done (particularly in Nightfall).

Sorrow’s Furnace and hard mode weren’t there at launch. There weren’t 8 dungeons. There wasn’t five races and starting areas. And though the personal story is uneven, some of them are pretty good (while others are not). That being said, there are only so many times I could play through pre, even though some people loved it. At least here I have five zones to play around in.

I did like the skill system in Guild Wars 1 and loved making builds. It was my favorite part of the game. But it wasn’t enough to compensate for the incredible lack of necessary game functions, like marketplaces and jumping. The last thing I wanted to do was stand around Spamadan all day, trying to sell a bunch of stuff, instead of playing.

There was plenty wrong with Guild Wars 1. It was still one of the best games of its time but I think too many people remember it with rose-colored glasses on, and even more, many are comparing the full range of games that appear over a couple of years with what we’re seeing in Guild Wars 2 after six months.

In two years, I think this game is going to rock.

The things you list as negative are either positives for me or neutral. No marketplace meant trading meant something, sure you had scammers, but it was personal. Now it is cold and impersonal. No jumping honestly did not matter to me. Jumping does not a good game make. While there weren’t 8 dungeons there was UW and FoW. These 2 to date still outperform GW2 dungeons.

Now let’s look at the first major update for both. Lost Shores and Furnace of Sorrow. The former died out a week after it’s launch while the latter is still done to this day. Not only that but you can consider it a precursor to GW2 dungeons as there were multiple routes depending on which quest you took.

What else did GW1 offer. To me it offered self set goals. One of which was exloring as much of the world while doing the bare minimum of missions. I had all missions and outposts unlocked by travelling to them except for Crystal Desert. Or uncover as much of the map as possible. I did this before the title was added. Unlock every single skill. These are self set goals, goals that GW2 is lacking. Or another way to look at it is freedom. Prophecies has it, GW2 a lot less.

GW1 felt like it was developed by gamers to me, while GW2 was developed by suits. I would not be playing this game if it had not been for the first.

Conner.4702:

Vayne.8563:

I’m another long time Guild Wars 1 player, who likes Guild Wars 2 more.

First of all, you can only really compare Guild Wars 2 to Prophecies at launch. At this point in it’s development, Factions wasn’t out yet. And a lot of people seem to be comparing four games with one. Take away professions like the Rit, sin and dervish and see how many people are still saying Guild Wars 1 was much better. Certainly not as many PVe people.

25 missions, no hard mode. That’s what you had. And the mission bonuses were annoying and story breaking in some cases. Many were badly done (particularly in Nightfall).

Sorrow’s Furnace and hard mode weren’t there at launch. There weren’t 8 dungeons. There wasn’t five races and starting areas. And though the personal story is uneven, some of them are pretty good (while others are not). That being said, there are only so many times I could play through pre, even though some people loved it. At least here I have five zones to play around in.

There was plenty wrong with Guild Wars 1. It was still one of the best games of its time but I think too many people remember it with rose-colored glasses on, and even more, many are comparing the full range of games that appear over a couple of years with what we’re seeing in Guild Wars 2 after six months.

In two years, I think this game is going to rock.

The things you list as negative are either positives for me or neutral. No marketplace meant trading meant something, sure you had scammers, but it was personal. Now it is cold and impersonal. No jumping honestly did not matter to me. Jumping does not a good game make. While there weren’t 8 dungeons there was UW and FoW. These 2 to date still outperform GW2 dungeons.

Now let’s look at the first major update for both. Lost Shores and Furnace of Sorrow. The former died out a week after it’s launch while the latter is still done to this day. Not only that but you can consider it a precursor to GW2 dungeons as there were multiple routes depending on which quest you took.

What else did GW1 offer. To me it offered self set goals. One of which was exloring as much of the world while doing the bare minimum of missions. I had all missions and outposts unlocked by travelling to them except for Crystal Desert. Or uncover as much of the map as possible. I did this before the title was added. Unlock every single skill. These are self set goals, goals that GW2 is lacking. Or another way to look at it is freedom. Prophecies has it, GW2 a lot less.

GW1 felt like it was developed by gamers to me, while GW2 was developed by suits. I would not be playing this game if it had not been for the first.

But Guild Wars 2 isn’t lacking self-set goals, you’re just not setting them. There’s plenty of stuff I want to do, and haven’t gotten to yet. There are also things the game offers for those who don’t like to set their own goals.

As far as jumping, you’re right it doesn’t make a game. Nor does being a ranger in the wild and not being able to stop over a log. Sorry but that, to me, is almost game breaking. Here I am, the great explorer, oh, a log, I guess I’ll have to walk around it.

If you like standing around in Kamadan to sell stuff, and you think that’s superior to posting it and leaving, well, I think you’d be in a very small minority there. I can’t tell you how many times people in my guild complained about having to go to Spamadan.

There were other major problems with the game from my point of view. Mission bonuses used to annoy the hell out of me. Take Blacktide Den. So you have to kill this Rinkhail monitors to get the bonus. Why? It’s never explained in game. I’m going to make this guy suspicious while impersonating corsairs, to hunt down monitors for no reason whatsoever. Ummm why? The only reason I know to do it is because I get a message on my screen. Well, my character can’t see my screen. Why is he running around this swamp killing those monsters and why those monsters?

I can think of tons of stuff like that that pulled me right out of the game. I’d say Eye of the North was my favorite Guild Wars 1 product and the game was already out a couple of years when that came out.

As for Prophecies and Sorrow’s Furnace, the amount of content in Guild Wars 2 compared to Guild Wars 1 is HUGE. I mean if you’re really comparing Sorrow’s Furnace to the Fractals, which was something you left off your upgrade list, I don’t know what to tell you.

I find the Fractals a whole lot more entertaining than Sorrow’s Furnace ever was. As for Underworld and UW, sure, they were entertaining. I’ll grant you that. But there’s still far more content in Guild Wars 2 than there was in Guild Wars 1 at this point. In a year or two, Guild Wars 2 will have far more content than all the games put together.

I enjoy GW2 as much as GW1 gameplay wise. What annoyed me about GW1 was the growing emphasis on elitist play like HM. AGain, much like ehre though it was ofc optional, but to get the titles etc you wanted there, was probably the greatest grind I have seen in an mmo.

My character here feels stronger – whilst I liked the idea of the skill builds in GW1, the enormous number of skills made it both daunting to casual players and also a nightmare for the devs to balance. I also agree the fractals is far superior to things like Sorrows Furnace. I look forward to more fractals being added!

Map exploration is more fun here – it requires you to…explore! Gw1 was all about wall scraping and overlaying map templates to find edges of the map you missed – not fun for me I found!

Both excellent games, both with different strengths – was I wanting or expecting GW1 the remake? No, I still have and play GW1 so something new was welcomed

challenge is another thing that is none existent in gw2. I think the only challenging part of the whole game is fotm passed level 40 but even that is a cheap challenge that relies on agony to slow you down and more so since anet doesn’t even let us ascend amulets/earings…

A lot of what ppl liked in GW1 was added into the game well over a year after it was put out GW2 been out for 6 months now so there going to be a lot of growing in the next 6 months.
Mind you that a treadmill is not limited to gear only the way it sounds like GW1 as its own near treadmill like GW2. Its just in GW2 there is an object that shows what you have done GW1 was more of a build in.

In my opinion

GW2 graphics and soundtrack are true masterwork, but being pulled in here by some marketing tricks and wake up in a game with:

- no build crafting
- no second profession
- no body block
- no energy management
- AOE cap
- Stealth (bleh)
- no counter to stealth (double bleh)
- stealth with no counter in a game suffering from culling problems (huge bleh)
- mesmer, one of the most original class in gw1 turned into a crude pet spammer
- ranger stuck with a kittened pet
- skills lag, culling
- lack of optimization (you need a kitten good pc to run the game smoothly)
- only 2 pvp mode with one affected by gear treadmills

So yeah… just bleh.

Kaputsid.5169:

In my opinion

GW2 graphics and soundtrack are true masterwork, but being pulled in here by some marketing tricks and wake up in a game with:

- no build crafting
- no second profession
- no body block
- no energy management
- AOE cap
- Stealth (bleh)
- no counter to stealth (double bleh)
- stealth with no counter in a game suffering from culling problems (huge bleh)
- mesmer, one of the most original class in gw1 turned into a crude pet spammer
- ranger stuck with a kittened pet
- skills lag, culling
- lack of optimization (you need a kitten good pc to run the game smoothly)
- only 2 pvp mode with one affected by gear treadmills

So yeah… just bleh.

You forgot PvE you can sleepwalk through

Build-crafting was always a joke unfortunately – 1% of players did the real work, half the remainder copied them, and the other half just came up with something bad. GW2’s system is dumbed down in comparison, but there’s a lot less PvXwiki.com in our lives these days at least.

And I so, so don’t miss GW1’s trading. I’ll take impersonality over wasting time any day of the week.

BUT. I do miss how GW1’s performance felt right out of the gate at launch – it was very fast, and very stable. GW2 isn’t too bad at stability but it’s never really been a speed demon. (Yes, the graphics are better, but they aren’t good enough to justify Lion’s Arch running 30 fps on a Core i7/GTX 670.)

Lets face it, ANET sold out.

Everything that was unique about GW1 they decided to change to make it more ‘WoW like’ because they want more money.

Completely ruined the skill system
Nothing like FoW/UW/DoA in the game which was the most popular endgame
No second profession
Removed the instances
Auction house (would much rather spamadan)
Obsidian armour was the most sought after thing and kept me and many others playing for years, having one weapon with an animation is no where near as good
No energy
No guild halls (seriously…)

They decided to cater for the ex wow players as they knew it would make more profit.. good job anet

Ben Glover.2790:

Lets face it, ANET sold out.

Everything that was unique about GW1 they decided to change to make it more ‘WoW like’ because they want more money.

Completely ruined the skill system
Nothing like FoW/UW/DoA in the game which was the most popular endgame
No second profession
Removed the instances
Auction house (would much rather spamadan)
Obsidian armour was the most sought after thing and kept me and many others playing for years, having one weapon with an animation is no where near as good
No energy
No guild halls (seriously…)

They decided to cater for the ex wow players as they knew it would make more profit.. good job anet

Ya they did not sell out.

GW1 is far closer to WoW like then GW2 will ever be because of the lack of the stander mmorpg system.

Skill system is the last 1/2 of your skills and you can switch weapons IN COMBAT giving you a great deal more flexibility during combat when you should have most flexibility.

There fractal, true team pvp (wvw), and guild mission for end game atm and more to come sadly GW1 is a mostly dead game (no more new content).

Do you need it? Think about it if the idea of each class is one way war being able to use lots of weapons and being start forwarded what would adding a sub job of ElE in GW2 do for the class? At best it will just make the game imposable to balances out at worst it would make all the class the same class.

There are a lot of instances i am not sure if you even played GW2 if your saying this.

Globe TP is amazing it makes it a great deal harder for ppl to control a world because every one in the game is competing over all better prices for the consumer.

Legendarily weapons are armor at least in GW2 there will be easy to get version of these.

Ppl goal in GW1 from what i understand was to get cap energy so why have energy at all?

Ya guild halls would be nice but why i would take more content over these any day.

They did want to open up the game to more players then just the pvp players the pve in GW2 is very nice and the type of WvW system is simply amazing no longer are you just fighting for your self or just a small group you got a world behind you and every one on that world you are now fighting for.

@OP: for me, it has nothing to do with story “achievements” at all.

GW1 simply mastered horizontal progression. Hundreds of skills to collect and lots of builds to make & experiment with. Nice dungeons & even better PvP.

Whenever I started to feel like I had done it all, an expansion was right around the corner.

If Anet fixed a whole lot of things and released an expansion to GW2, it could be an even better game than GW1 – but unfortunately, it looks like Anet’s answer to every problem is just “add more grind!”.

darkace.8925:

In everything else, from the combat mechanics to world exploration, I think GW2 trumps GW. For me, and this is of course just my opinion, I think GW2 is the better game by a great many miles.

If you updated GW1 to GW2’s graphics and mechanisms, would that still be your opinion? I fear I would be playing GW1 then.

There is one single thing I miss from GW1: Challenge.
Outside Frac40+, GW2 poses no challenge whatsoever, sadly.

Conner.4702:

No jumping honestly did not matter to me. Jumping does not a good game make.

I’ve not seen one person refer to jumping puzzles as a step backwards. Jumping may not make a bad game good, but it can certainly make a good game better.

Conner.4702:

What else did GW1 offer. To me it offered self set goals. One of which was exloring as much of the world while doing the bare minimum of missions. I had all missions and outposts unlocked by travelling to them except for Crystal Desert. Or uncover as much of the map as possible. I did this before the title was added. Unlock every single skill. These are self set goals, goals that GW2 is lacking. Or another way to look at it is freedom. Prophecies has it, GW2 a lot less.

Okay, you’re going to have to explain this paragraph to me. How on earth is any of that any different than GW2? You can’t set yourself a set of goals in GW2? You can’t explore in GW2? Unlocking skills in GW2 isn’t as complex or (subjectively) fun as it might have been in GW, but it’s still a goal one can set oneself in GW2, is it not?

Conner.4702:

GW1 felt like it was developed by gamers to me, while GW2 was developed by suits. I would not be playing this game if it had not been for the first.

Again, you’re going to have to explain this one to me. How is the ability to deposit crafting materials from anywhere in the world a feature conceived by a suit? How is the ability to access the Trading Post from anywhere in the world a feature conceived by a suit? How is an in-game currency exchange for cash shop currency a feature conceived by a suit? How are vistas feature conceived by suits? How? How are any of these features not implemented solely to enrich the players’ experience?

Your post makes absolutely no sense. None at all. I mean, none.

^Actually it does make sense because it’s his opinion and that’s how he/she feels, as do I. You don’t have to get all hot and bothered about it lol.

Reason GW1 players feel so bleh in my opinion…is because they arent playing GW1.
I could say the same thing because i was playing Lineage 2.

On the subject of the story elements being repeated, I’m amazed more people don’t notice this, but….GW2’s story has a very similar structure to Nightfall’s.

• You’re faced with a deity-caliber enemy that forces numerous allies, rivals, and even enemies to join forces.
• The actual gods of Tyria are completely useless, even when repeatedly called upon for help.
• Most of the story consists of you building your own legend, assuming a commanding role in an order, and becoming a major leader and heroic figure in the world.
• Suddenly, there’s this secondary character who jumps in and hogs the spotlight near the end of the story, while you become their second-in-command.
• The story ends by glorifying them and their accomplishments instead of you.

The one big key difference is that instead of actually fighting the god-like baddie face-to-face, you blast it with your little cannons for five minutes….which is actually a step down, to be honest.

The basic structure of Nightfall, and all of Nightfall’s subsequent story flaws, are present in GW2.

Ben Glover.2790:

Lets face it, ANET sold out.

Everything that was unique about GW1 they decided to change to make it more ‘WoW like’ because they want more money.

Completely ruined the skill system
Nothing like FoW/UW/DoA in the game which was the most popular endgame
No second profession
Removed the instances
Auction house (would much rather spamadan)
Obsidian armour was the most sought after thing and kept me and many others playing for years, having one weapon with an animation is no where near as good
No energy
No guild halls (seriously…)

They decided to cater for the ex wow players as they knew it would make more profit.. good job anet

Everything on your list, with the exception of “Removed the instances”, “No energy”
“No guild halls (seriously…)” is subjective. I.e. the fact that you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s bad. Now, let’s address the three quoted “sellout moves”.

“Removed the instances”. What? Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have instanced dungeons? Fractals of the Mist isn’t an instance? Do you even know what you’re talking about?

“No energy”. So you accuse ArenaNet of selling out and making the game more-WoW like, and to support your accusation you list the removal of energy. Does the removal of energy, a resource used to fuel skills, make the game more or less like WoW? Again I must ask, do you even know what you’re talking about?

“No guild halls (seriously…)”. Did ArenaNet not say guild halls would eventually be added to the game? Granted, it’s all talk until it actually happens. But if this is a deal-breaker for you, then I really, REALLY don’t know what to tell you.

Your post is completely irrational. You call them sellouts for changing things you don’t personally like, and you criticize them with factually untrue criticisms.

Edit: And for the record, I don’t like what they did to the mesmer class any more than you do, but that doesn’t mean “they sold out”. There may be people who actually like the change. When calling someone a sellout you should probably stick to the facts, as your opinions are not universally shared by all.

Double Edit: Guild Wars featured cash shop-exclusive items obtainable solely with cash. Guild Wars 2 features cash shot-exclusive items obtainable either with cash or with in-game currency? I’d love to hear you explain how that’s “selling out”?

critickitten.1498:

GW2’s story has a very similar structure to Nightfall’s.

Kind of, yeah.

Rukia.4802:

^Actually it does make sense because it’s his opinion and that’s how he/she feels, as do I. You don’t have to get all hot and bothered about it lol.

No, it doesn’t make sense. Believe it or not, opinions can and often are nonsensical. “GW is better than GW2 because it allowed me to set personal goals” is nonsense. “The game was made by suits, not gamers” is nonsense.

I understand that people like GW or GW2 more than the other, it’s great to have an opinion.

However, when someone says “I like GW better because…” and someone counters with “But GW didn’t have that 6 months after launch!” it kind of gets my goat.

ANet is not starting from scratch, they’re not reinventing the wheel here. They knew what worked and what didn’t in GW. It’s named for GW for a reason (what that reason is, is a mystery to me yet, but that’s beside the point).

Guild Halls, for instance, should be a no-brainer. And it’s not because of some quirky playstyle. It’s because the party size limit is 5, and a guild hall is a great way to form a cohesive guild. Guild parties, guild v guild, or just hanging out.

When you got to level 20, everything just got harder afterwards, more challenge, more ways to try new builds, more playstyles.

It’s the same in guildwars 2 from 1 – 80. I swung a sword, I swung a sword again, HEY I SWUNG IT AGAIN. HEY I CAN SWING IT WITH 20% LESS COOLDOWNS

darkace.8925:

Rukia.4802:

^Actually it does make sense because it’s his opinion and that’s how he/she feels, as do I. You don’t have to get all hot and bothered about it lol.

No, it doesn’t make sense. Believe it or not, opinions can and often are nonsensical. “GW is better than GW2 because it allowed me to set personal goals” is nonsense. “The game was made by suits, not gamers” is nonsense.

You’re missing a very important point, it’s how he or she feels, the person wasn’t stating it as fact, so it very much does make sense. Get off your high horse and learn what an opinion is. Keyword “to me” go and re-read the post.

Yeah we do. Why? Because we do. Why? because we all like chess? Why because chess is fun. Why? leave me alone!

Honestly they made the game so much easily then Gw1. I remember having as a dervish to keep certian conditions up to tank properly, now it doesn’t really matter.

We do feel like we were ignored and brushed aside to attract the WoW crowd.

Trust me – the WoW crowd had a better top end (jks).

This game does need a kick in the complexity, but I don’t think GW1 players specifically feel this.

“We do feel like we were ignored and brushed aside to attract the WoW crowd.”
There are people posting up here who completely failed at WoW and are now claiming to be GW1 vets and are trying to make a game they can cope with, they are making all the real GWVets look bad…

GW1 –
solo farm everyday
7 kittens you could deck out in gear
solo everything

GW2 –
group farm everyday
???
group everything

I find it hilarious when colin johansen said that infamous “I swung a sword” phrase. I feel what he described, in this game, more than any other game. This game alone has you repetitively using the same attacks over and over again more than any other game, simply because autoattack is enough to fight most enemies.

While I enjoy GW2, I personally prefer GW1. In my opinion…I wish they would have just added Guild Wars Utopia; instead of scrapping it, turning it into EoTN, and then releasing GW2. :/

They only had around harhrhrhrhrhrm developers, an aging core engine, and fwwwaarg – it had to go this way if the product was ever going to narrrrrrrrrrg.

Rukia.4802:

darkace.8925:

Rukia.4802:

^Actually it does make sense because it’s his opinion and that’s how he/she feels, as do I. You don’t have to get all hot and bothered about it lol.

No, it doesn’t make sense. Believe it or not, opinions can and often are nonsensical. “GW is better than GW2 because it allowed me to set personal goals” is nonsense. “The game was made by suits, not gamers” is nonsense.

You’re missing a very important point, it’s how he or she feels, the person wasn’t stating it as fact, so it very much does make sense. Get off your high horse and learn what an opinion is. Keyword “to me” go and re-read the post.

I’d argue that what a person feels, or emotions, are very often irrational and nonsensical. Additionally, where did you find a definition of “opinion” that included “making sense?”

I feel so bleh because seven years of playing that game and it’s moving on to the next one.

But I’ll get over it. I got over it when my copy of Link to the Past finally gave out :P

I’m stunned that anyone would prefer Spamadan to the Trading Post. I don’t even know what to say to that. After the first year I never even bothered selling my stuff, instead just threw it on one of my mules or gave them to friends. Having a system is infinitely better then no system at all.

I also think it’s funny how much people are lauding the difficulty of GW1. Once heroes were introduced even hard mode was pretty easy. Once you could go seven heroes and they introduced hugely imbalanced PVE skills I don’t think I ever died again in PVE. And yes there were more options for builds, but they weren’t necessarily more complicated then the builds in GW2. There were plenty of builds which required spamming one or two skills while using others as occasional utilities, especially some of the meta ranger builds. And there was a lot of build discrimination if you wanted to join parties for upper level content, so while you had the option for thousands of builds, in reality there were only a handful that were really viable if you wanted to compete in the endgame.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved GW1. But there’s definitely some nostalgia warping memories.

I don’t miss how farming dominated the economy in GW1, I don’t miss the title based skills, I don’t miss Spamadan even a little bit, I don’t miss the overly grindy titles or a more restrictive world. And even though I loved my heroes and spent a lot of time and money decking them out, I like that my character now feels more like a powerful hero rather then just one more person in a group of eight who is a pushover if he lost his healer.

funkylovemonkey.3097:

I’m stunned that anyone would prefer Spamadan to the Trading Post. I don’t even know what to say to that. After the first year I never even bothered selling my stuff, instead just threw it on one of my mules or gave them to friends. Having a system is infinitely better then no system at all.

I have a couple reasons to want interpersonal trading again.

First: Not having to have someone mail me payment for crafting them armor before I send it to them, or sending the armor and hoping they send me payment

Second: So I don’t have to send mail to a guildmate to share some Slaying Potions I got in a chest mid-dungeon. (I miss just being able to drop it on the ground.)

Third: As long as you weren’t rushing it wasn’t really possible to get scammed.

The centralized trading post is very useful but I would like the ability to do some back-alley dealing too.

I also think it’s funny how much people are lauding the difficulty of GW1.

The difficulty came in for the top 10% of the game. And of course, it came in so long as you didn’t, well, cheese the heck out of it.

Don’t get me wrong, I loved GW1. But there’s definitely some nostalgia warping memories.

Agreed.

I like that my character now feels more like a powerful hero rather then just one more person in a group of eight who is a pushover if he lost his healer.

Quoted because it’s so . . . so much how I feel. Sure, a thief prepared can still snap me like balsa wood . . . but I don’t feel in PvE that I need a healer or two stapled to my coat-tails.

Kaputsid.5169:

In my opinion

GW2 graphics and soundtrack are true masterwork, but being pulled in here by some marketing tricks and wake up in a game with:

- no build crafting
- no second profession
- no body block
- no energy management
- AOE cap
- Stealth (bleh)
- no counter to stealth (double bleh)
- stealth with no counter in a game suffering from culling problems (huge bleh)
- mesmer, one of the most original class in gw1 turned into a crude pet spammer
- ranger stuck with a kittened pet
- skills lag, culling
- lack of optimization (you need a kitten good pc to run the game smoothly)
- only 2 pvp mode with one affected by gear treadmills

So yeah… just bleh.

The second profession is one of the things that destroyed Guild Wars 1. It was taken out because it’s virtually impossible to balance a game with it in. Asking for it to be repeated is like asking for something totally broken to replace something that’s been fixed.

Body block works perfectly fine in an instanced area, where there are you and a few guys in your party. Body block in a larger open world is a recipe for major lag. Very few MMOs used body block because it has a negative affect on frame rate, which has a negative affect on the game. The moment this was an MMO instead of an instanced game like GW 1 was the moment body block really needed to come out.

Energy management is a matter of personal taste. I think the game plays much faster without it. I don’t see why it’s needed. Obviously the devs didn’t either. One of the things I love about this game is that there are no energy potions are there are in most MMOs with energy. Anet was going to including them originally and took out energy instead. It was a good move, in my opinion.

Actually looking at this list, you’re probably a PvPer and yeah, we’ll have a completely different list of what is good or bad in a game. Stuff like culling is being worked on and there will be a fix. Higher requirements for computers is a reflection of the year in which the game was made. Guild Wars 1 is 7 years old. It has modest requirements. The game looks a lot better because of those higher requirements. Some guys don’t care. They’d rather have a faster game that looks worse. Some people do care. I’m one of them.

Anyway, Guild Wars 1 at six months wasn’t the greatest game in the world. It took years of adding stuff before it really came into its own.

So why compare four games, to a single game?

Vayne.8563:

First of all, you can only really compare Guild Wars 2 to Prophecies at launch.

While I dislike a few parts of GW2, when I read this statement, I had to think about it and think it’s important to note. My biggest sadness was how weak the story was compared to GW1, but a lot of the deep lore came after the world expanded and connected these various lands together. While I still enjoyed Prophecies compared to the GW2 Personal Story, I’m going to be a bit more patient with how many ways GW2 can improve.

Played GW1 since the beginning and I like GW 2 so please dont broadly assume things about GW 1 players . Oh and many things you said about GW 1 is actually wrong .

jblade.6470:

Vayne.8563:

First of all, you can only really compare Guild Wars 2 to Prophecies at launch.

While I dislike a few parts of GW2, when I read this statement, I had to think about it and think it’s important to note. My biggest sadness was how weak the story was compared to GW1, but a lot of the deep lore came after the world expanded and connected these various lands together. While I still enjoyed Prophecies compared to the GW2 Personal Story, I’m going to be a bit more patient with how many ways GW2 can improve.

I think this game was released six months too early. I think Anet had no choice but to release the game before MoP came out. And I think they’re right to have done so. That said, I’d yet to play ANY MMO that hasn’t released early, except maybe Rift, but the world in Rift was laughably small on release. Even then, the skills changed constantly after release for months. Entire skill trees even changed. It sucked.

Several features of Guild Wars 2 what were supposed to be there at launch, including guesting, never made it in. So much stuff was screwed, but Anet really had to release for business reasons.

What you see now is actually what the game would have looked like on release, had Anet had more time to finish working on it. I mean no company could possibly release a game with most of the quests not working in their final areas and so many personal story quests bugged.

I think in six months this game will be at the same place Prophecies was six months after release. And I think that would be a fairer comparison. Particularly because this game is far more ambitious than Prophecies was.

Vayne.8563:

What you see now is actually what the game would have looked like on release, had Anet had more time to finish working on it. I mean no company could possibly release a game with most of the quests not working in their final areas and so many personal story quests bugged.

Well, thing is, they worked in alpha/betas (everything quest related was tested and retested and it worked). When they put 100x more ppl on server it stopped working. Same for WvW, stuff was tested with idk 20-40 ppl, then suddenly you have 100 ppl per side banging on the same door with 2-4 rams…yeh, it was balanced for a bit less people. As for the current things, I guess people that still test it are mostly ones that are good at this game and like it which can mean a biased population + overtuning some stuff.

Anyway, I miss mob pack farming from GW1…so much more satisfaction to kill 20 mobs at a time than 2-3. Hell, can’t even get 20-30 mobs together outside events in GW2….not to mention AOE cap.

Vayne.8563:

I’m another long time Guild Wars 1 player, who likes Guild Wars 2 more.

First of all, you can only really compare Guild Wars 2 to Prophecies at launch. At this point in it’s development, Factions wasn’t out yet. And a lot of people seem to be comparing four games with one. Take away professions like the Rit, sin and dervish and see how many people are still saying Guild Wars 1 was much better. Certainly not as many PVe people.

25 missions, no hard mode. That’s what you had. And the mission bonuses were annoying and story breaking in some cases. Many were badly done (particularly in Nightfall).

Sorrow’s Furnace and hard mode weren’t there at launch. There weren’t 8 dungeons. There wasn’t five races and starting areas. And though the personal story is uneven, some of them are pretty good (while others are not). That being said, there are only so many times I could play through pre, even though some people loved it. At least here I have five zones to play around in.

I did like the skill system in Guild Wars 1 and loved making builds. It was my favorite part of the game. But it wasn’t enough to compensate for the incredible lack of necessary game functions, like marketplaces and jumping. The last thing I wanted to do was stand around Spamadan all day, trying to sell a bunch of stuff, instead of playing.

There was plenty wrong with Guild Wars 1. It was still one of the best games of its time but I think too many people remember it with rose-colored glasses on, and even more, many are comparing the full range of games that appear over a couple of years with what we’re seeing in Guild Wars 2 after six months.

In two years, I think this game is going to rock.

Wow, best post. I agree 100%.