a.net: I will not be buying gems with cash until you fix traits.
(edited by Eric.6109)
Recount would be great
GW2 pve is a co-operative environment. Any form of dps meter is divisive, as evidenced in this thread. I don’t see how these polar ends can be reconciled, and imo a dps meter would be used to get rid of ‘bads’ instead of educating them, cos u know- a elitists’ time is more important than anyone elses…
I have yet to see a serious need for cooperation beyond picking people up off the ground in most team fights, whether they’re against bosses in dungeons or just events in the world.
You said these players can disable it for themselves, but the real issue is that other party
Don’t get me wrong, it might also encourage a lot of people to try and get better at the game, myself included, but it’s the harassment factor which prevents this function from being included. Maybe if the person who doesn’t want such function would have the option to disable it and that in turn would also disable their data being seen by other party members would solve that issue but then people would probably kick you if they couldn’t see your data in dungeons/fractals because they would be uncomfortable/assume you’re a bad player.It wouldn’t solve anything. We will just see a “Recount enabled” demand on LFG.
80 zerk warr/ele exp speedrun
The more tools a company gives for elitists to flourish, the worse the atmosphere of the game will be for the rest of us. I don’t think any company should encourage people to empower one set of the population to demean another set of the population. Now I’m not saying all elistists do this…but some do and they’re loud and obnoxious.
We already have farmers vs people who want to just play the game in multiple threads shouting at each other, and we’ve already had a number of threads about people arguing about elitists in LFG…this would just make the issues worse.
For people who marginalize and point the finger at “elitists” making them out to be a plague and something you wouldn’t want to share a dungeon with – I find it very odd that the same people want to deny these “elitists” the tools through which interaction between them and the “playhowyouwant” crowd would be kept to a minimum.
How is someone choosing who he wants to play with “demeaning” to others?
How is it that someone in cleric’s sneaking into my full zerker party is perfectly ok but the moment that I exclude someone based on my own criteria it becomes demeaning?Maybe I just don’t want to play with that player – for whatever reason. It would spare us both grief and time if there was a way to avoid each other.
That way I wouldn’t have to make him ping his gear and then listen to “his thoughts” on the matter of kicking him because he didn’t meet the requirements for the party that were posted.
It would be less traumatic for him and for me. So why not?
It is only less traumatic for you. The moment you realize a player is in cleric’s is the moment they start having an “Oh kitten!” moment as you stoically reach for the kick button.
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
This is the very thing I hate in games like this.
why though? It can help you improve ur skills
I enjoy it as a novelty in games that have it, but they do more harm than good…
Possibly instead of a meter used in battle, there were practice dummies with built in dps meters which you could practice your rotation on. I could see that as beneficial
This.
Recount, while potentially useful, is probably the most hate-inspiring software in any MMO ever.
I love GW2 and hope to never see anything even close to recount in this game.
The training dummy sounds like a decent thing though – would be a nice addition to our home instances.
IMO; Recount and or the many variants of dps/healing meters are really only “needed” in a raid type situation – which GW2 lacks.
These types of addons also fit better with a more relaxed style of game (Like WoW – where tab targeting works so rotations can be properly worked through). A game where any mob at any time can randomly change target cause a player looked at it funny would skew the metered results…
In other words, without a “tank” soaking up the damage, the dps/healing classes that get the usage from addons like Recount still spend time dodging and avoiding damage (or at least they should be) rather than focusing on pushing that meter rating upwards.
I wouldn’t mind however an addon that allowed the unit frames and bars be changed (GUI) nor would I mind seeing something like Carbonite tossed in…. at least, that’s how I see it.
Edit: Opposing thought towards myself – Recount might work out as the current meta within most dungeons and zerg play is to stack up. This results in “WoW” like stationary gameplay where one could (in theory) work on pushing meters upwards… perhaps..?
(edited by WasAGuest.4973)
Recount would be pretty great. For one, without it I have no incentive to actually try in dungeons. Everything is just meh, whatever, we’ll get to the end eventually.
This is the very thing I hate in games like this.
why though? It can help you improve ur skills
I can tell you exactly why I hate this kind of thing. It sucks the fun out of running dungeons. But why, you ask? Because sometimes I want to run a dungeon casually, maybe while watching TV, or maybe while eating cereal. I won’t claim to be the best player in the world, but I’m a pretty darn good one. Cleared all dungeons, cleared FoTM50, all world bosses, etc. So I know what I’m doing in a dungeon.
Honestly the dungeons are easy to me, and therefore I don’t feel the need to be at maximum focus anymore. I can miss the occasional reflect wall, or dodge, or maybe I didn’t time my skill rotations perfectly because I was mildly distracted, so what. We will still roll through the dungeon like it was a joke.
I don’t need some dude telling me, “hey bro, everyone is at 600DPS, you’re only at 500DPS, pick it up or I’m kicking you, scrub.” I don’t want every dungeon I run to potentially have some statistics overlord pouring over the damage numbers to call out who isn’t working at maximum efficiency. GW2 doesn’t have any kind of content where this is necessary. It turns the game into work, not fun.
Further, it’s plainly obvious who isn’t pulling their weight. For example: I ran a FoTM30 the other day, had a Guardian on the team that was ONLY using staff. Literally for every part of the dungeon. There is no doubt in my mind his DPS is lacking, I don’t need a meter to tell me that. I can just tell him, “hey guardian, do you have any other weapon besides a staff?” Or a thief I played with once that exclusively used short bow.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
After reading all of this I think, as someone mentioned, having some kind of recount meter on a training dummy would be useful.
However, even that alone could promote one of the big issues I see with pug groups a lot these days, and that is running selfish builds…. As someone mentioned GW2 combat is a lot about how you work together as a party including various traits people equip to help their party members and also skills, instead of using more selfish ones because overall it gives better performance. You have no idea how many times I got kittened off seeing people come into dungeons with various signets, including speed signet of all things…. I never really say anything to people and just get on with things but cmon… Your dungeon build shouldn’t be a ‘how can I produce max dps’, it should be ‘how my party can produce max dps’. And I feel like in pug groups that would suffer.
I would like a real time data log that shows me all the damage done, dps, total damage, amount of deaths etc in my speed clears.
It would be nice to have something like Recount so i can see who isn’t pulling their weight. Can’t stand leechers who get loot and gold off of others hard work and abilities.
It of course should be opional to toggle on or off, that way casuals won’t feel under pressure, but more determined palyers could use the data to improve their builds?
I am very very i mean VERY happy such addons like recount or even worse, gearscore meters dont exist in this game. That would create toxicity among the playerbase and people are being treated as a number, rather then a human being.
LFM Arah 10k dps 9563 gearscore link achiev or no inv
No thanks.
Big Babou, Ranger for life.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
Madness Rises [Rise] – Banners Hold.
Don’t argue with idiots, they pull you down their level and own you with experience.
We already have a feedback system in GW2.
If the boss dies, you did enough DPS.
End. Of. Story.
Server: Devona’s Rest
I would like a real time data log that shows me all the damage done, dps, total damage, amount of deaths etc in my speed clears.
It would be nice to have something like Recount so i can see who isn’t pulling their weight. Can’t stand leechers who get loot and gold off of others hard work and abilities.
It of course should be opional to toggle on or off, that way casuals won’t feel under pressure, but more determined palyers could use the data to improve their builds?
I would agree with you if any of the dungeon content was taxing. None of it is though. If you want what you say you want for 30 seconds to a minute to be shaved off of a CoF run, then I can make a totally valid argument of that being trivial and trite. You can make the argument that you want to do 10 runs and that extra 5-10 minutes of your day is important.
In this game, I am all about the flexibility this game offers. Fractals are a great example of how the Fractals you get are more important than team comp. I would rather have a lot of CC in the Grawl Fractal than raw DPS. I would rather my team realize in the Mai Trinn fight that it isn’t a DPS race. I have seen some really good players die to those AoE circles in that fight. Mesmer is the best class in the Jade Fractal.
TL;DR If any of the content was ‘Raid-like’ I would agree with you. It isn’t though so I don’t because none of the content in this game is extremely difficult.
Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall
dps meter maybe no but pls give us option in lfg to set roles and armor type. Every day I have about 10 people crying that they have entered zerker party without zerker gear and they got kicked o_0 and they are whining that we are noob ! people who can read are noobs ! Maybe Anet should add new NPE content called reading quest casue some players have really big problem with it .
Recount, though not without benefits, ultimately leads to elitism. As someone mentioned above, people will soon create metas on how much dps each class needs to do to be seen as “good”. What you must understand in this is that GW2 is not like WoW wherein each player is given specific roles: there are no dedicated healers or tanks, which means everyone would be subjected to damage output. This would deter people from ever trying out anything besides trying to dish out the most amount of damage, unless it’s maybe in an organized dungeon run.
Having even your own data shown only to you with no means to link it still creates prejudice. If you see yourself doing more than 30-40% of the damage for example, you’d assume that with 5 players including yourself, there was at least one person who didn’t quite do as much damage as the norm (20% equally amongst 5 players), or worse that the other 4 did equally poorly.
In that scenario, you would either be very proud of yourself that you are able to do so much more damage than them and look down on them, or just grow to distrust them and maybe add them to your block list to make sure you don’t party with them next time. Either way, it does not promote cooperation.
That is why I don’t believe that adding such a tool will have more benefits than drawbacks.
The biggest thing other than elitism that always angered me about those counters is the fact that individual mechanics are never taken into account. “Stopped DPS for x amount of time because of Y mechanic” = OMG YOU DID LOW DPS YOU SUCK
Delvien – d/d Elementalist – Gates of Madness
bad idea.
nuff said.
Did I ever tell you, the definition, of Insanity?
No, thank you, no DPS meters, but probably it’s bad experience that I’ve had with them on other MMO games that I’d rather not have here in GW2.
One idea I would support, though, is a way to tell personal DPS. Maybe a target dummy or golem in LA or something (like the ones in the heart of the mist) where you attack it for a set time and reports back how much damage you did to them. There could even be several “arenas” where you can attack a single target or several at the same time, and allow you to set the time (10 secs, 30 secs, 1 min and so on) so you can try out burst and sustained DPS.
I’d support a system like that, but I’m against a way to automatically view or require other peoples DPS.
It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.
I think a dps meter that gives you only your personal data is fine. I am also on board for better filtering tools for lfg, if a person makes a group they have the right to set the terms for what they want in the group. If one person likes to run “meta or gtfo” and another doesn’t, so what? It would make it much easier for like minded players to play together and avoid conflicts, since there can be no deception on anyone’s part. Sometimes I run dungeons that are relative speed clears (not going for records but using all dps armor sets and builds) and sometimes I run dungeons at a snails pace where people can bring whatever they want. Both types of groups fill up quickly, so there is more than enough of each kind of population segment to support having better lfg filtering in my opinion.
Edit: Also, to the players who say they teach others how to do dungeons, thank you. If I can give a word of caution though, try to make sure that what you are doing is actually teaching and not dictating. How something is said is almost more important than what is being said once human ego becomes involved.
(edited by ShadowPuppet.3746)
as always the adequate reply to this request is “other people´s stats are non of your kitten business”.
If people are going to keep throwing out the word “elitist” as if it were a bad thing, then I will refer to those at the other end of the spectrum(s) as carebears
The carebears need to stop trying to force some “all-inclusive” attitude on everyone.
As for battle metrics, I don’t think they’re strictly necessary but I don’t oppose them either.
As someone else mentioned though, being able to see gear on your teammates would be desirable and useful.
That would create toxicity among the playerbase and people are being treated as a number, rather then a human being.
Unless I know someone in RL, they are just a fancy NPC to me, not a human. I will treat you with some default level of respect, but I don’t care about you beyond your ability to help me complete content.
as always the adequate reply to this request is “other people´s stats are non of your kitten business”.
As long as you don’t join a group that has specific stat requirements clearly stated.
The more tools a company gives for elitists to flourish, the worse the atmosphere of the game will be for the rest of us. I don’t think any company should encourage people to empower one set of the population to demean another set of the population. Now I’m not saying all elistists do this…but some do and they’re loud and obnoxious.
We already have farmers vs people who want to just play the game in multiple threads shouting at each other, and we’ve already had a number of threads about people arguing about elitists in LFG…this would just make the issues worse.
For people who marginalize and point the finger at “elitists” making them out to be a plague and something you wouldn’t want to share a dungeon with – I find it very odd that the same people want to deny these “elitists” the tools through which interaction between them and the “playhowyouwant” crowd would be kept to a minimum.
How is someone choosing who he wants to play with “demeaning” to others?
How is it that someone in cleric’s sneaking into my full zerker party is perfectly ok but the moment that I exclude someone based on my own criteria it becomes demeaning?Maybe I just don’t want to play with that player – for whatever reason. It would spare us both grief and time if there was a way to avoid each other.
That way I wouldn’t have to make him ping his gear and then listen to “his thoughts” on the matter of kicking him because he didn’t meet the requirements for the party that were posted.
It would be less traumatic for him and for me. So why not?It is only less traumatic for you. The moment you realize a player is in cleric’s is the moment they start having an “Oh kitten!” moment as you stoically reach for the kick button.
You think I’d let people in my serious runs in only to “realize” they’re in cleirc?
They ping their gear and abide by the LFG rules or get the kick way before we start the run.
The whole idea is to create a tool through which me and the hypothetical “cleric” player never meet.
We don’t waste each other’s time. We don’t create tension between us, we don’t argue because we never meet.
That’s what I want. It’s less traumatic for him too because he doesn’t have to be subjected to the current " ping gear or prepare to be ejected from the party" experience.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
It would be nice to have something like Recount so i can see who isn’t pulling their weight. Can’t stand leechers who get loot and gold off of others hard work and abilities.
You sound like a kitten.
Amazing contribution to the discussion right here.
But he’s right – why should some work and others reap the benefits?
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
as always the adequate reply to this request is “other people´s stats are non of your kitten business”.
If you are in my party, then it’s my business.
If you want a DPS meter, “this game is not for you.”
I hate to use that phrase, because it is so often thrown around by “elite” players against those who are more casual or less knowledgeable, but there you go, because it applies to both sides of the fence not just the “casuals” and ’bads".
I for one hope they take this game further and further away from this elitism – there are hundreds of games out there to play if you want that kind of atmosphere. This was not designed to be one of them and it needs to go away.
Stop confusing bad mechanics such as a poor AI with a game meant for DPS. There is a world of difference between lack of foresight and intentional design.
A simple observation: I would rather join a Tequatl attempt than do an explorable dungeon run these days, because the Tequatl attempt is likely to be less toxic. And I run half of my characters in full Berserker DPS builds. You would not believe how often I get accused of doing no damage just because the party leader kept getting downed and needed some people to flame and blame.
Situations like this are alot more common than the elitists think – because they have a blindless to their own behavior and the behavior of similar players.
Daisuki [SUKI] LGBT-Friendly Guild Leader | NA – Jade Quarry
I’m usually really sweet… but this an internet forum and you know how it has to be.
/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/
I’m usually really sweet… but this an internet forum and you know how it has to be.
/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/
(edited by Hannelore.8153)
@lhos- you want some ‘serious need for co-operation’? How about:
-karka queen
-Tequatl
-Triple trouble
-Marionette
-Assault knights
-TA aetherpath
…just off the top of my head.
Elitists who are impatient tend to have a perfectionist effect on those around them (and the game in general). We have them to thank for the ascended gear grind and lack of build diversity in pve; it’s play their way or you are inferior.
OT: We don’t need more methods of discriminating against casual players in a casual game.
Why not have such a tool that only shows your own stats? Then you can see where you need to improve without letting the “elitists” have hard numbers to judge people with.
I actually agree with this 100%.
There’s no reason not to let people set personal goals.
The other idea, to be able to inspect others, is toxic in the extreme. Maybe it would be ok for sPvP, but that’s about it.
You think I’d let people in my serious runs in only to “realize” they’re in cleirc?
They ping their gear and abide by the LFG rules or get the kick way before we start the run.
The whole idea is to create a tool through which me and the hypothetical “cleric” player never meet.
We don’t waste each other’s time. We don’t create tension between us, we don’t argue because we never meet.That’s what I want. It’s less traumatic for him too because he doesn’t have to be subjected to the current " ping gear or prepare to be ejected from the party" experience.
If the LFG tool is doing it’s job, then you don’t need a recount which helps keep players who just want to do the dungeon from suffering the antics of elitists they will undoubtedly encounter.
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
You think I’d let people in my serious runs in only to “realize” they’re in cleirc?
They ping their gear and abide by the LFG rules or get the kick way before we start the run.
The whole idea is to create a tool through which me and the hypothetical “cleric” player never meet.
We don’t waste each other’s time. We don’t create tension between us, we don’t argue because we never meet.That’s what I want. It’s less traumatic for him too because he doesn’t have to be subjected to the current " ping gear or prepare to be ejected from the party" experience.
If the LFG tool is doing it’s job, then you don’t need a recount which helps keep players who just want to do the dungeon from suffering the antics of elitists they will undoubtedly encounter.
I agree, but unfortunately, the lfg tool is not doing its job enough. Elitists and carebears still ends up being in the same party resulting in the elitist being a##hole and hurting the feelings of the carebear.
This is the very thing I hate in games like this.
why though? It can help you improve ur skills
But you don’t want it to improve your skills. You want it to “see who isn’t pulling their weight”. Or at least it was the main reason for it you supplied in your first post.
I see no problem with such a function built into training golems, but i wouldn’t want to see it being usable in normal gameplay.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Unless I know someone in RL, they are just a fancy NPC to me, not a human. I will treat you with some default level of respect, but I don’t care about you beyond your ability to help me complete content.
So you basically just admit to dismissing the humanity of other people because you’re a kitten?
The lack of self awareness in this thread is frightening.
It would be nice to have something like Recount so i can see who isn’t pulling their weight. Can’t stand leechers who get loot and gold off of others hard work and abilities.
You sound like a kitten.
Amazing contribution to the discussion right here.
But he’s right – why should some work and others reap the benefits?
The loot structure in GW2 make the whole “reaping rewards” idea invalid. As long as they are contributing, they’re helping. It’s not necessarily rocket science – the game is laughably easy. PUG dungeon runs with bearbow/PTV thieves are done with relative ease. Proposals like this are just a whitewash to cover up the disgusting, ugly community that is composed of elitists.
It would be nice to have something like Recount so i can see who isn’t pulling their weight. Can’t stand leechers who get loot and gold off of others hard work and abilities.
You sound like a kitten.
Amazing contribution to the discussion right here.
But he’s right – why should some work and others reap the benefits?
The loot structure in GW2 make the whole “reaping rewards” idea invalid. As long as they are contributing, they’re helping. It’s not necessarily rocket science – the game is laughably easy. PUG dungeon runs with bearbow/PTV thieves are done with relative ease. Proposals like this are just a whitewash to cover up the disgusting, ugly community that is composed of elitists.
How does it make it invalid? If you can do 4 dungeon paths per hour instead of 3, that’s higher rewards for you and your party. There are also varying degree of contribution. If I simply autoattack the entire run, that’s helping but I don’t know anyone who would want someone like that in their group. Completing a run with “relative ease” is also a matter of perception. There is a “relative ease” of not wiping or “relative ease” of actually doing a speed run.
ArenaNet will never implement a DPS meter. It implies that skill and party contribution can be reduced to a number, which of course it cannot. It also pushes the idea that DPS is the goal of combat, and is what the gameplay is designed around, which is not the image they want to project for this game.
I believe ANet is also currently not interested in creating new dungeons or content for dungeons, so a DPS meter would be a pointless addition.
Frankly, not all professions are equal in their ability to deal damage — or at least not in a standard way that would chart well to a DPS number. In traditional MMORPGs with the “holy trinity,” DPS was an objective role that had to be filled, so the classes whose job it was to fill that role had to be standardized and on an equal playing field. “Balance” in those games meant balancing damage output. “Balance” in GW2 means a lot of different things, where lesser direct damage per hit may be made up in other subtle ways.
Higher personal DPS comes at the expense of overall party DPS. The skills which grant damage-increasing buffs to you and allies are not always your highest-damaging skills. If you are sticking to your prescribed “rotation” so that Recount spits out a higher number for you at the end, then you may even be lowering the potential damage of your group and indirectly making the dungeon take longer than it had to.
As has already been mentioned, Ranger Warhorn 5 applies Might and Fury to the whole party while doing zero damage. This would quite obviously increase DPS for the group as a whole, but lower your own relative DPS number spat out by Recount. There are also traits that give off passive stat increases to the whole party, which people take at the cost of their own personal solo damage because they are better for group contribution. And then we have combo fields, yet another way that “your” damage might be increased because of what other players are providing for you.
And finally, all the dungeon mechanics where success is not dependent on just standing there dealing damage. You can be randomly going after enemies just for the sake of it, while more experienced players who actually understand the dungeon are going after the relevant targets that will advance the event, or carry an object to where it needs to go, or hit the Fractal titan’s chains with the hammer, or any number of non-damage-oriented tasks. Or, heck, maybe they saw that you were just hacking away at the boss while standing in an AoE or getting hit by attacks, so rather than concentrating on upping their own DPS they opted to toss out some protective buffs/heals your way, and felt like they had to keep one eye on you in case you went down.
Even if you count “heals per second” or “buffs per second,” that means basically nothing. I don’t think anyone really needs to be told that using heals or protective skills at the right moment is a lot better than spamming the skill every time it’s off cooldown.
In essence, you think “How many times can I do this thing per second” is a measure of skill or mastery. It isn’t. That’s like a chef measuring their culinary expertise in “burgers per second.” There is no context to such a number, and more often than not an effort to consciously increase that number results in a drop in competence elsewhere.
In WoW DPS meters did not tell the tale.
I was in a dungeon where we wiped, wiped, and wiped more times than I can count. A member of the team, a Hunter who loved to CC and was excellent at it, switched to her personal CC build, and locked down the mobs that were wiping us.
We finished the boss and she was harassed into leaving because her DPS was low, despite her telling everyone what she was going to do and everyone thinking it was a good idea beforehand. And… despite her being the reason we finished the boss.
I was almost kicked once on my Hunter because my DPS was low when, due to the tank sucking, I switched specs and pet tanked a dungeon, us completing it fine.
So, these addons did not show the whole picture even in WoW.
~~On Blackgate since Beta~~
80s: Necro x2, Ranger, Warr, Guardian x2, Ele x2, Mes, Thief
80s: Necro x2, Ranger, Warr, Guardian x2, Ele x2, Mes, Thief
(edited by Gregori.5807)
Worst idea evar.
In WoW DPS meters did not tell the tale.
I was in a dungeon where we wiped, wiped, and wiped more times than I can count. A member of the team, a Hunter who loved to CC and was excellent at it, switched to her personal CC build, and locked down the mobs that were wiping us.
We finished the boss and she was harassed into leaving because her DPS was low, despite her telling everyone what she was going to do and everyone thinking it was a good idea beforehand. And… despite her being the reason we finished the boss.
I was almost kicked once on my Hunter because my DPS was low when, due to the tank sucking, I switched specs and pet tanked a dungeon, us completing it fine.
So, these addons did not show the whole picture even in WoW.
See, that’s the thing. Meters are a great tool for people who are already working together and understand how the game works. For pugs, I think they are largely a nightmare, as evidenced in other games.
And even if we look beyond dungeons… can you imagine meter wars at world bosses? The cries of “look at all these worthless bads who aren’t pulling their weight”? Oh man, I’m sure that’s exactly what Anet doesn’t want.
Or words to that effect.
@lhos- you want some ‘serious need for co-operation’? How about:
-karka queen
-Tequatl
-Triple trouble
-Marionette
-Assault knights
-TA aetherpath…just off the top of my head.
Elitists who are impatient tend to have a perfectionist effect on those around them (and the game in general). We have them to thank for the ascended gear grind and lack of build diversity in pve; it’s play their way or you are inferior.
OT: We don’t need more methods of discriminating against casual players in a casual game.
And nobody wants that.
We want a tool through which we can spot and have nothing to do with the “casual players” not discriminate against them.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
You think I’d let people in my serious runs in only to “realize” they’re in cleirc?
They ping their gear and abide by the LFG rules or get the kick way before we start the run.
The whole idea is to create a tool through which me and the hypothetical “cleric” player never meet.
We don’t waste each other’s time. We don’t create tension between us, we don’t argue because we never meet.That’s what I want. It’s less traumatic for him too because he doesn’t have to be subjected to the current " ping gear or prepare to be ejected from the party" experience.
If the LFG tool is doing it’s job, then you don’t need a recount which helps keep players who just want to do the dungeon from suffering the antics of elitists they will undoubtedly encounter.
It’s not doing its job. That’s the problem.
There’s no way to have filters. I write in my LFG " full zerker x class" and someone with another class joins.
I have to kick them.
Or someone with the right class joins – but isn’t full zerker. I understand he doesn’t want to play my way but I don’t want to play with people who don’t play like me so I have to kick them.
Usually this distresses them to some extent. I simply want to put an end to this. It doesn’t add to my experience and it doesn’t add to theirs.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
It would be nice to have something like Recount so i can see who isn’t pulling their weight. Can’t stand leechers who get loot and gold off of others hard work and abilities.
You sound like a kitten.
Amazing contribution to the discussion right here.
But he’s right – why should some work and others reap the benefits?
The loot structure in GW2 make the whole “reaping rewards” idea invalid. As long as they are contributing, they’re helping. It’s not necessarily rocket science – the game is laughably easy. PUG dungeon runs with bearbow/PTV thieves are done with relative ease. Proposals like this are just a whitewash to cover up the disgusting, ugly community that is composed of elitists.
As long as they are contributing – but sometimes they’re not even doing that. Sometimes they’re just aggroing stuff and running around aimlessly.
Just because they’re in the party doesn’t mean they’re contributing. And even if they are – I have a right to play with the people I choose.
Maybe I want to play with someone who contributes more. Maybe I want my runs to be faster and not wipe.
You can say whatever you want – all I want is the means through which I can find 4 more players who play exactly the way I do and party up with them. Because they care about rewards and the time spent to get those rewards.
Because for some people having fun means not wasting time unnecessarily.
And I like how people against such proposals are just trying to hide the fact that they want free rides and easy loot in the game. Usually through other people’s work and dedication.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
But he’s right – why should some work and others reap the benefits?
Pugs are never not going to be a mess in that way though. That’s what playing with guildies or friends is for – tracking down people who have a hardcore mindset and will put in the hours to understand everything and give top-notch performance.
Or words to that effect.
@lhos- you want some ‘serious need for co-operation’? How about:
-karka queen
-Tequatl
-Triple trouble
-Marionette
-Assault knights
-TA aetherpath…just off the top of my head.
Elitists who are impatient tend to have a perfectionist effect on those around them (and the game in general). We have them to thank for the ascended gear grind and lack of build diversity in pve; it’s play their way or you are inferior.
OT: We don’t need more methods of discriminating against casual players in a casual game.
And nobody wants that.
We want a tool through which we can spot and have nothing to do with the “casual players” not discriminate against them.
That is the definition of discrimination.
I am far more comfortable forcing elitists to play with casuals.
It will teach them much needed (and seriously lacking) social skills.
As long as they are contributing – but sometimes they’re not even doing that. Sometimes they’re just aggroing stuff and running around aimlessly.
If you need a dps meter to see that such people are a problem, then perhaps the problem lies also elsewhere…
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Don’t need it, certainly don’t need it in this game considering the ease of most content. Anyway the same thing can be done with a spreadsheet and test dummies to research your effectiveness and that should be all you’re concerned about. Fellow with people of your same ideology and everyone will be happy, we certainly don’t need any more divisive content in the game.
I have seen these tools be far more destructive than constructive and I can tell you Anet has voiced the same opinion multiple times over, but it has been a couple months since I’ve seen particular horse flogged to death lol.
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
@lhos- you want some ‘serious need for co-operation’? How about:
-karka queen
-Tequatl
-Triple trouble
-Marionette
-Assault knights
-TA aetherpath…just off the top of my head.
Elitists who are impatient tend to have a perfectionist effect on those around them (and the game in general). We have them to thank for the ascended gear grind and lack of build diversity in pve; it’s play their way or you are inferior.
OT: We don’t need more methods of discriminating against casual players in a casual game.
And nobody wants that.
We want a tool through which we can spot and have nothing to do with the “casual players” not discriminate against them.That is the definition of discrimination.
I am far more comfortable forcing elitists to play with casuals.
It will teach them much needed (and seriously lacking) social skills.
There is nothing and I do mean nothing wrong with setting an expectation when you form a group. If a player wants to group with other like minded players why not give them the tools to do that instead of trying to force two different groups with differing goals to play together? Both the so called “elitists” and “casuals” each have a right to play as they wish and better filtering tools could go a long way towards making that happen and avoiding conflict in the process. The people who want fast clear times (supposed elitists) will have the tools to facilitate that, and the people who want to enjoy the journey and don’t much care what people run (supposed casuals) will both benefit from having access to better lfg tools. Everyone wins and everyone is happy.
There is nothing and I do mean nothing wrong with setting an expectation when you form a group. If a player wants to group with other like minded players why not give them the tools to do that instead of trying to force two different groups with differing goals to play together?
There is a difference between Anet allowing such community-dividing (and unhealthy) behaviour, and actually supporting and validating it. Introducing DPS meter would be an official message telling everyone that they agree with and support elitist behaviour. I doubt this would be received well with the casual majority this game was supposedly targeted for.
(and as for “forcing two different groups, with differing goals, to play together” is concerned, and Anet’s attitude towards it, i will say only three words – “WvW map completion”).
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
If someone is trying to help you, that should be enough.
You should not attempt to weigh their contribution on a scale and compare it to your own.
If someone is being a dumbkitten and is running around doing nothing, you do not need a dps calculator to establish that.
Being unable to tell when some people are wearing zerker and when they are not should speak a couple of chapters about the significance of that information in the first place.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
(edited by Azure The Heartless.3261)
Some people that are “elitist” aren’t even that good, they are just impatient. Another example, I was doing a FoTM45, we rolled swamp, you know because easy, right? It was myself and a guildie who started it and we PUG’d 3 people.
Well anyone who has done swamp knows that there are ideal locations, one of the worst being skelk just because of the distance and the darn skelks, but I was feeling adventurous so we didn’t reset it, and you know what, random things do happen so a couple of poorly timed tree movements, and those darn chill fields (instability for 45) caused us to not succeed our first attempt.
This dude says “OMG seriously?! You failed this? ****ing noobs… You get one more chance at this and that’s it.” Which by the way he wasn’t even running them.
I simply said, “Yea, we don’t need BS like that in this group, have a nice day” and kicked him. We succeeded the second attempt, 4-manned Bloom, then picked up a 5th for the rest of the fractals and finished in record time, no wipes, no issues.
To me, the guy I kicked is the kind of guy that would be in support of damage meters.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
If DPS meters really did tell the whole story, then it’s time to find a new game.
The difficulty of encounters should not come down to solely DPS anyway.
If it does, this is a design flaw.
There is nothing and I do mean nothing wrong with setting an expectation when you form a group. If a player wants to group with other like minded players why not give them the tools to do that instead of trying to force two different groups with differing goals to play together?
There is a difference between Anet allowing such community-dividing (and unhealthy) behaviour, and actually supporting and validating it. Introducing DPS meter would be an official message telling everyone that they agree with and support elitist behaviour. I doubt this would be received well with the casual majority this game was supposedly targeted for.
(and as for “forcing two different groups, with differing goals, to play together” is concerned, and Anet’s attitude towards it, i will say only three words – “WvW map completion”).
I don’t see an issue with a personal dps meter but it’s not something I really care about one way or the other. Harper seems to be more concerned with better lfg tools (which was what my post was referring to) to allow him to play with like minded players and I agree with him.
Unhealthy is trying to force players with differing ideas of what they find “fun” to play together for no other reason than to promote a “Utopian” dream that is never going to exist. The reality is, people who form a group have the right to say what they want for the group they created (they paid their money just like everyone else). If a player doesn’t like what is being stated then they don’t have to join and can form their own group.
Better lfg tools would allow players to avoid the types of groups they don’t want to play with while making it easier to find groups that are more similar to their ideals. The best thing about this is that it works for both of the false dichotomy choices people are giving, “Elitist” and “Casual” alike.
(edited by ShadowPuppet.3746)
Unless I know someone in RL, they are just a fancy NPC to me, not a human. I will treat you with some default level of respect, but I don’t care about you beyond your ability to help me complete content.
So you basically just admit to dismissing the humanity of other people because you’re a kitten?
The lack of self awareness in this thread is frightening.
lol, what makes you think that I am not fully aware of how some might perceive that statement?
@lhos- you want some ‘serious need for co-operation’? How about:
-karka queen
-Tequatl
-Triple trouble
-Marionette
-Assault knights
-TA aetherpath…just off the top of my head.
Elitists who are impatient tend to have a perfectionist effect on those around them (and the game in general). We have them to thank for the ascended gear grind and lack of build diversity in pve; it’s play their way or you are inferior.
OT: We don’t need more methods of discriminating against casual players in a casual game.
And nobody wants that.
We want a tool through which we can spot and have nothing to do with the “casual players” not discriminate against them.That is the definition of discrimination.
I am far more comfortable forcing elitists to play with casuals.
It will teach them much needed (and seriously lacking) social skills.
Speaking of social skills, have you never learned not to force yourself into groups where you are unwanted and unwelcome?
Observations:
- I’ve seen many posts by people who styled themselves as better players, complaining about how easy the game is and how easy dungeons are. However, if the subject of someone not following the meta comes up, the dungeons turn into “hard work.”
- Threads about the subject of a damage meter on these boards are always the same. The same things are always said, sometimes by the same people.
- I can see where a meter would help with theory-crafting, and help people who want to learn how to play better. It’s too bad that it can also be used to puff up someone’s ego and as a bludgeon.
- As far as efficiency players and laissez-faire players go, both groups would be better off if they only played within their own demographic. They really shouldn’t mix, because they are not after the same thing.