Guild Wars 2

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

Well to be fair, just look at the numbers:

Ascended trinkets (amulet, rings, earrings, back) vs. exotic for the main stat only
126+103*2+91*2+56 = 570
90+67*2+56*2+22 = 358

That’s a 212 point difference to the main stat. Adding in ascended weapons (for a 2hander)

188 vs. 179, so a total of 221 point difference in the main stat. Plus the average weapon damage getting a ~5% increase.

Compare that to bloodlust. A 30/50/60 temp boost in 6 stats (at least I’d assume a temp boost, I don’t know how good the higher WvW servers are at holding them vs. each other).

I assume party buffs means food, which if you just look at the stats boosting ones, they give +100 stat base, or +200 stat under a certain condition, and less if you care about stun/condition duration reduction. I’ll agree that yes, food does make up a big difference. But I’d argue that both sides getting food is cheaper/easier than both sides getting ascended gear.

For blob size, you are right. There is very little a zerg 50% the size of the other can do to win, but hasn’t this been the case since launch?

I understand your point/the counter argument. “WvW is meant to be unfair/unbalanced.” That’s true, and I’m no WvW aficionado by any means, but you can agree that to get ascended weapons/gear will take longer and be harder for a dedicated WvW player compared to someone who goes into PvE (or a primarily PvE person going into WvW) to grind out mats/ectos/gold.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Ascended trinkets (amulet, rings, earrings, back) vs. exotic for the main stat only
126+103*2+91*2+56 = 570
90+67*2+56*2+22 = 358

I am confused by these numbers they seem too large and i’ve been trying to make sense of them. Ascended ring main stat is 72 and I am not seeing that there instead you listed I assume 103, where is that from?

same with amulets main is 96 not 126

do you have a mistake or am i missing something?

No because even that dedicated WvW player has the exact same opportunity as the next player to obtain ascended items. What this thread amounts to is a person catagorically stating they wont play the content for better gear, and then complaining the are not rewarded for ignoring said content and wanting everyone else to be quiet litteraly penalised statistically for playing said content for the better gear.

Galen Grey.4709:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Ascended trinkets (amulet, rings, earrings, back) vs. exotic for the main stat only
126+103*2+91*2+56 = 570
90+67*2+56*2+22 = 358

I am confused by these numbers they seem too large and i’ve been trying to make sense of them. Ascended ring main stat is 72 and I am not seeing that there instead you listed I assume 103, where is that from?

same with amulets main is 96 not 126

do you have a mistake or am i missing something?

I just grabbed them quick from the wiki (if those numbers are wrong/outdated, my apologies).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_ascended_trinkets

Has stats at:
amulet: 126/85/85
ring: 103/68/68
accessories: 91/60/60
back: 56/35/35

A fair compromise to keeping this garbage ascended tier in WvW would be to allow people to change the stats on ascended when needed and then further differentiate legendary weapons. That way, it doesn’t invalidate anyone’s “hard work”. And let’s face it. When I say “hard work” I mean their capacity to endure the most eye bleedingly boring psuedo-content this game has to offer, for hours on end.

I think you are against this not because it gives roughly 5% stat bonus but out of principal. Same reason you are against jumping puzzles and crafting too correct?
Because it doesn’t really take long to do. And you can get it by playing wvw.
Every time you take a tower you have a chance to get it.

No. Thats just another attempt for people to get legendary like effects without bothering to get a legendary. If you want stats changing on the fly, go craft a legendary or buy one on the TP.

Ascneded are fine as is.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Galen Grey.4709:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Ascended trinkets (amulet, rings, earrings, back) vs. exotic for the main stat only
126+103*2+91*2+56 = 570
90+67*2+56*2+22 = 358

I am confused by these numbers they seem too large and i’ve been trying to make sense of them. Ascended ring main stat is 72 and I am not seeing that there instead you listed I assume 103, where is that from?

same with amulets main is 96 not 126

do you have a mistake or am i missing something?

I just grabbed them quick from the wiki (if those numbers are wrong/outdated, my apologies).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_ascended_trinkets

Has stats at:
amulet: 126/85/85
ring: 103/68/68
accessories: 91/60/60
back: 56/35/35

ohh sorry my mistake
I went to this site for reference:
http://www.gw2db.com/items/73746-bud-of-the-pale-tree

and the items are split into two, didnt add the values at the bottom.

Sorry again.

Azure Prower.8701:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

If the law of averages makes us assume both groups have the same skill level, then the law of averages makes us assume both groups have equal amounts of ascended gear.

Then it’s official.

Ascended Gear = Skill.

You’ve heard it right here folks!

Yup and that is all what the game as to offer!

Remember when people used to make posts about how exotic gear gave people an unfair advantage in wvw?

Akari Storm.6809:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

Because WvW is GW2 version of openworld pvp which means…pve buddy. Maybe it would have been easier to just make WvW like spvp and everyone has exactly the same options at all times while not being able to level at all. Which means hey, if you want to do anything other than WvW down the road you will have to focus specifically on pve.

Spvp went down that road, why take away when you should be adding.

Face it, OP…you should just kill this thread as it will gain no traction. TBH, it doesn’t make sense to me, “yay…let’s make one set of gear inop”. WvW is not an arena/bg format like spvp is. 1yr in and you haven’t realized that yet?

Why can’t it be? Doesn’t this game have enough PvE content that we now have to bring gear disparity/grind to wvwvw as well…? I just want fair play and a balanced game, do you not understand this kind of mentallity stops new players from coming in?

Do you know a sure way to kill most businesses? Not gaining new clients, sure retaining existing clients is important but a business that doesn’t bring in new clients will eventually die. This is exactly what happened in Halls during GW1, titles and elitist mentality from players like yourself stopped new players from coming in and enjoying the mode which eventually died because old players left and there were no new ones to replace them.

This is what’s going to happen eventually, If we make the entry “gear” level of WvWvW one that takes hundreds of hours of grinding to attain then eventually the game mode will die because new players won’t be able to get in, imagine you’re a new player, just think about it for 5 minutes, you just bought the game, you did Queensdale/Kessex Hills, you are now level 20-30, you go into WvWvW, you’re walking around and some player kills you with no effort, you put it down to lack of experience, you go back to PvE, get to 80, now you go back to wvwvw, you’re walking around and a fully ascended thief 2 shots you, the same thing happens, over and over again, you go with a zerg but the AoE of fully ascended elementalists/necros/guardians/warriors is too much and you can’t even survive that, you have enough and leave, never join a borderland again.

Eventually the old players will leave and there will be no new players to replace them, the same thing happened in HoH in GW1 in the sense that new players were coming in, all groups were r7+ and a new player couldn’t find a guild, was there for a couple of weeks mostly waiting for groups, after getting their bambi they would leave, some wouldn’t even make it that far.

On this note as well, can I urge wvwvw players to please stop insulting PvE’ers in map chat, I see it every day, players can not learn without making mistakes first and insulting them is not going to make them want to stay and be part of the community. We need to educate every one and for the sake of the map we need to be more friendly and encourage people to come and join us, insulting pve players/new comers and creating gear gaps is not going to do this, surely we don’t want Borderlands to be as deserted as most of the levelling areas in this game now do we? We all started somewhere, my first real MMO was guild wars in 2005, I started playing PvE and I was a complete noob about anything, I never even played an RPG/MMO game before, I thought it was the most amazing style of gaming in the world, by the end of my guild wars days I was part of a gold gvg guild, I couldn’t have done it if some very friendly koreans in HA hadn’t for some reason taken me in and taught me the roots, I went from being that PvE hero with FoW on every alt to someone everyone in HA knew, I think our community has lost that, I don’t see many people taking others on any more and it’s something that I try to do.

Which is why I made this thread, I dont want gear or rank disparities to exist and stop new players from coming in and enjoying this game mode, and for the core wvwvw players, I don’t want them to have to go and spend thousands of gold/grinding for hours to be able to represent their World in the best way.

I honestly don’t see why Ascended players complain, we’re not asking to remove the gear in PvE, we’re asking to have it scaled to Exotic level when entering a Borderland.

Ascended being in WvW is fine as long as it can be obtained by doing WvW. When you had to grind PvE for the PvP gear that is when it was a problem. I’d be fine with them removing Ascended weapons from WvW as long as they also remove Legendaries. However you can get the non gear slots from PvP activities now and with Ascended crafting you can get weapons that give you equal stats to the people running Legendaries without having to win the RNG Lottery.

Only if Anet had done wvw in the same format as spvp, this would of made it alt friendly, balanced and just more fun in general! But i’m fine with ascended as long as that’s where it stops.

Ascended gear is there to stay, I’ve had time to make 4 ascended weapons and I didn’t farm much for it besides doing a few daily boss. Craft it or not it’s your choice. Mostly everyone have trinkets for their main character by now.

Removing something from the game once 75% of the people have it is beyond ridiculous. If you really think that a 6% increase in stats is what is making you die all the time then you should just go craft your own and realize it doesn’t change much. Most of us who made ascended weapons anyway went for celestial, it actually decrease our power but average our builds a little.

Not looking forward to hearing you cry again all over the forum when ascended armors are released.

Xillllix.3485:

Ascended gear is there to stay, I’ve had time to make 4 ascended weapons and I didn’t farm much for it besides doing a few daily boss. Craft it or not it’s your choice. Mostly everyone have trinkets for their main character by now.

Removing something from the game once 75% of the people have it is beyond ridiculous. If you really think that a 6% increase in stats is what is making you die all the time then you should just go craft your own.

Not looking forward to hearing you cry again all over the forum when ascended armors are released.

Don’t worry. The “crying” will lessen over time as the people who really loved the old Guild Wars philosophy leave the game. I sure as hell will never log in again because of this ascended garbage.

Vol.5241:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

because the effort to code all that is not worth it? Let alone all the people who invested badges/laurels for ascended gear. We want to shaft those people?

But the effort of designing, coding, modelling, animating and testing to introduce a feature that “makes absolutely no difference” was?

Pariah.8506:

Vol.5241:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

because the effort to code all that is not worth it? Let alone all the people who invested badges/laurels for ascended gear. We want to shaft those people?

But the effort of designing, coding, modelling, animating and testing to introduce a feature that “makes absolutely no difference” was?

Ascended gear is a armor with an infusion slot for a mechanic introduced as an endless dungeon grind to provide long term goals for players after they completed their exotic set.

It makes “no difference” to the outcome of a WvW match.

It makes larger differences on smaller scales, but never poses an advantage that can’t be overcome by smart play, due to the way combat mechanics work.

I’m kitten sure that any fight I lose to a player I would have lost whether or not he has ascended. There’s just so much more influencing fights than numbers on the gear, and that is obviously by design.

Mackdose.6504:

Pariah.8506:

Vol.5241:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

because the effort to code all that is not worth it? Let alone all the people who invested badges/laurels for ascended gear. We want to shaft those people?

But the effort of designing, coding, modelling, animating and testing to introduce a feature that “makes absolutely no difference” was?

Ascended gear is a armor with an infusion slot for a mechanic introduced as an endless dungeon grind to provide long term goals for players after they completed their exotic set.

It makes “no difference” to the outcome of a WvW match.

It makes larger differences on smaller scales, but never poses an advantage that can’t be overcome by smart play, due to the way combat mechanics work.

I’m kitten sure that any fight I lose to a player I would have lost whether or not he has ascended. There’s just so much more influencing fights than numbers on the gear, and that is obviously by design.

It affects my enjoyment of WvW. No matter how many times someone says “it doesn’t matter” or “it doesn’t affect anything.” It matters to me, it affects me. I enjoy the game less because it’s there. It stops me from doing things I find fun.

TooBz.3065:

Mackdose.6504:

Pariah.8506:

Vol.5241:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

because the effort to code all that is not worth it? Let alone all the people who invested badges/laurels for ascended gear. We want to shaft those people?

But the effort of designing, coding, modelling, animating and testing to introduce a feature that “makes absolutely no difference” was?

Ascended gear is a armor with an infusion slot for a mechanic introduced as an endless dungeon grind to provide long term goals for players after they completed their exotic set.

It makes “no difference” to the outcome of a WvW match.

It makes larger differences on smaller scales, but never poses an advantage that can’t be overcome by smart play, due to the way combat mechanics work.

I’m kitten sure that any fight I lose to a player I would have lost whether or not he has ascended. There’s just so much more influencing fights than numbers on the gear, and that is obviously by design.

It affects my enjoyment of WvW. No matter how many times someone says “it doesn’t matter” or “it doesn’t affect anything.” It matters to me, it affects me. I enjoy the game less because it’s there. It stops me from doing things I find fun.

It affects your enjoyment how? Try not to be ephemeral.

What exactly are you being stopped by?

TooBz.3065:

Mackdose.6504:

Pariah.8506:

Vol.5241:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

because the effort to code all that is not worth it? Let alone all the people who invested badges/laurels for ascended gear. We want to shaft those people?

But the effort of designing, coding, modelling, animating and testing to introduce a feature that “makes absolutely no difference” was?

Ascended gear is a armor with an infusion slot for a mechanic introduced as an endless dungeon grind to provide long term goals for players after they completed their exotic set.

It makes “no difference” to the outcome of a WvW match.

It makes larger differences on smaller scales, but never poses an advantage that can’t be overcome by smart play, due to the way combat mechanics work.

I’m kitten sure that any fight I lose to a player I would have lost whether or not he has ascended. There’s just so much more influencing fights than numbers on the gear, and that is obviously by design.

It affects my enjoyment of WvW. No matter how many times someone says “it doesn’t matter” or “it doesn’t affect anything.” It matters to me, it affects me. I enjoy the game less because it’s there. It stops me from doing things I find fun.

It does matter to be honest. If it didn’t there would be no reason to have larger numbers at all. But a single piece will matter very little. But once you have all the off set items and weapons it is significant if a skilled player goes up against another the gear is going to make a difference. Won’t necessarily win the fight but will give them needed breathing room they may win it. However in WvW you having one an item will probably not make a huge difference to did the group get that door down or not.

Mackdose.6504:

TooBz.3065:

Mackdose.6504:

Pariah.8506:

Vol.5241:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

because the effort to code all that is not worth it? Let alone all the people who invested badges/laurels for ascended gear. We want to shaft those people?

But the effort of designing, coding, modelling, animating and testing to introduce a feature that “makes absolutely no difference” was?

Ascended gear is a armor with an infusion slot for a mechanic introduced as an endless dungeon grind to provide long term goals for players after they completed their exotic set.

It makes “no difference” to the outcome of a WvW match.

It makes larger differences on smaller scales, but never poses an advantage that can’t be overcome by smart play, due to the way combat mechanics work.

I’m kitten sure that any fight I lose to a player I would have lost whether or not he has ascended. There’s just so much more influencing fights than numbers on the gear, and that is obviously by design.

It affects my enjoyment of WvW. No matter how many times someone says “it doesn’t matter” or “it doesn’t affect anything.” It matters to me, it affects me. I enjoy the game less because it’s there. It stops me from doing things I find fun.

It affects your enjoyment how? Try not to be ephemeral.

What exactly are you being stopped by?

So you can tell me I’m wrong? Here’s a non-ephemeral answer (note: enjoyment is subjective)

I have 7 level 80 characters. I have played this game for over a year because every time I get bored with a character I can swap over to another one. Usually the swap is caused by two factors. 1) I am starting to get bored with my current main and 2) I read about a build or think of a build I haven’t tried.

This means that swapping characters is usually accompanied by some degree of a respec. New gear, new stat combinations, at the very least new weapons.

So far I have played (for a considerable amount of time) A P/D thief, a GS / LB ranger, a S/Sw/F mesmer, a D/D ele, a S/D thief, a Axe/Mace/GS warrior, a glamour mesmer, H/S AH Guardian, a BM ranger, A Mantra mesmer, and A Hammer/Sword/wh Warrior. I’ve briefly toyed with Necro’s and Engineers, but haven’t really gotten into them.

I can’t / don’t want to commit to one class or build. Ascended gear makes it more difficult for me to swap around. I don’t want to try new things because I know I’m never going to get the ascended stuff for the build. For example, while I would happly swap out an exotic Zerker amulet for a Rabid one, I’m not going to do the same for ascended gear. It’s too cumbersome to get.

Therefore, I get frustrated. I want to try something, but it’s too expensive / time consuming to do it.

Oh, and I don’t play the game to get frustrated. (In case it wasn’t obvious, you never can tell)

I realise now how short-sighted people in this forum are, the problem is not having 1 or 2 items, the problem is in 1 year time when every one is walking around in full ascended, it will make it incredibly difficult for levellers or new players to compete and enter World vs World, this will create an elitist mentality and unwillingness to cooperate/help new players progressing in WvW because they will be dead weight (even harder to carry then they are now). Now this would be okay if ascended gear was open to every one but it’s only open to A) People who do Fractals People with hundreds of gold. Both of those types of people are usually not PvP’ers or new players.

I don’t mind grinds and PvE vertical progression but Anet needs to keep it out of WvWvW so that new players can easily access it and not feel at a disadvantage when starting out PvP, they will already have a huge skill disadvantage I don’t believe they should be at a gear disadvantage as well.

This will also benefit alts and players who enjoy playing more than 1 character/1 build.

Bastien.1645:

Do you know a sure way to kill most businesses? Not gaining new clients, sure retaining existing clients is important but a business that doesn’t bring in new clients will eventually die. This is exactly what happened in Halls during GW1, titles and elitist mentality from players like yourself stopped new players from coming in and enjoying the mode which eventually died because old players left and there were no new ones to replace them.

This is what’s going to happen eventually, If we make the entry “gear” level of WvWvW one that takes hundreds of hours of grinding to attain then eventually the game mode will die because new players won’t be able to get in, imagine you’re a new player, just think about it for 5 minutes, you just bought the game, you did Queensdale/Kessex Hills, you are now level 20-30, you go into WvWvW, you’re walking around and some player kills you with no effort, you put it down to lack of experience

1. Apples and oranges. WvW is not Halls. You don’t have to group and be experienced to contribute. You don’t even have to fight another player…you can repair and scout.

2. “Entry level” is level 2 gear. Did you forget that you can enter WvW at lvl 2? My first character went 1-80 in WvW. I still go in at any level. I have gone into WvW with a level 50 character still wearing level 35 trinkets and such. If a player doesn’t like WvW, I find it hard to believe it’s because they don’t have ascended items, or exotic for that matter. Time gives you exp so if a player isn’t willing to put time into this mode…what can I say.

3. Speak for yourself, don’t try to be the voice of all WvW players. Any competent player who enjoys this mode either knows what this mode is about or will soon find out. It’s not balanced around gear, It’s balanced around strats of obtaining and holding points to gain your server points. I say once again, you don’t even have to fight the enemy to employ misdirection.

4. If you can earn gold in this mode, then this mode has strong points that involve it. Siege cost money. Repairs cost money. Retraiting cost money. Commander tags cost money. GEAR and WEAPONS cost money. The players with more gold and who play more than just this mode have more options than players who play only this mode. That makes sense to me. You don’t want to put the time into doing everything this game offers, you shouldn’t be on par with players who do when it comes to those things. This part of the game isn’t balanced and wasn’t meant to be.

5. Once again, you want real pvp in this game (well, balanced as much as currently possible per patch, never ending as with any MMO pvp), and want to claim you are a pvper….Join spvp.

What are you worried about? losing a 1v1 or something?

Open field battles do not win week to week. Taking objectives, defending and holding them win. Zergs with superior numbers and tactics win points for you server. Coverage wins points for your server.

What this thread is about is you not wanting to put in time for ascended gear which makes you feel like you aren’t running in optimal gear. Exotics will still be common place, especially to those players that run several builds and several toons. Ascended gear isn’t going to be the difference in your server winning or losing especially when fight to fight you have no way of knowing what gear your opponent is wearing.

I think and this may be my opinion only, that for every person who won’t do what it takes to get those items, there is one person who will. That to me is balance in an unbalanced mode.

’Oh, we lost…server b must have been wearing all ascended". Do you know how silly that sounds?

Like I said before ,Server A will obtain ascended just as fast as Server B and C.

One person in this format does not win the war.

Bastien.1645:

I believe Ascended gear should be removed from PvP. It creates the typical “Grind to Win” scenario that is so common in other MMO/Games.

I feel that Arena Net created an amazing PvP game with Guild Wars 1 and they should stick to how things were run. I also predict a very certain power creep for Melee classes like Warriors/Thiefs who benefit so much from weapon power as opposed to classes like Mesmers/Necromancers, this will create a distinct imbalance between these classes that will be compensated by 1) Nerfing the Warrior/Thief/Guardian/Ranger and effectively screwing players who don’t have Ascended armor on these characters; OR 2) Not nerfing them and creating a huge gap in power between “Physical DPS” classes and “Magic” users.

WvWvW players like to PvP, but any PvP’er will do everything in their power to achieve an advantage over the enemy, the important thing for most PvP players is winning (yes they have fun too but winning is the most important), pretty soon we will have fully ascended players in WvWvW which will make it unplayable for people who don’t have hundreds of hours to dedicate to a single character in order to equip them with full ascended armor, I believe the weapons cost 200g each, the trinkets/accessories using Laurels would take almost a year to get and the back piece is not even available, and that’s assuming you do your daily every single day. Fractals should not be required to play PvP competitively.

WvWvW players already have to spend ~50+g on Runes + exotics to remain competitive, I believe that’s enough as you should naturally accumulate that gold levelling your character and doing a few dungeons along the way, a lot of people will say ascended armour makes no difference but if we assume both zergs are of equal skill, the zerg that is fully ascended will always beat the non ascended zerg that has 5-10% less stats, it’s the same thing as putting a level 80 zerg vs a upleveled zerg, which zerg do you think will win? And don’t get me started on roaming/sniping groups fully ascended vs non ascended people, in the law of averages, we have to assume everyone is at the same skill level so the person who is better geared will win. Could a pro player beat a fully ascended “newb”? Of course, but pro players a very rare and they don’t make up the average WvWvW in our realm. Heck, my realm is full of PvE players (Desolation) so if anything Ascended gear is awesome as the sheer power of these people will carry me but I still believe these items should not be implemented in this game mode.

Solution: It’s simple, just scale Ascended gear to Exotic stat level upon entering a Borderland. I believe fair play should be encouraged and “grind to win/pay to win” (crafting) should not be encourage or allowed in PvP, this is not World of Warcraft and I believe the fair play/balanced gear model from Guild Wars 1 was perfect and it should be encouraged not scrapped. If I wanted to go “3 Shot noobs with overpowered gear” I’d go back to WoW and grind RBGs to 2200.

Regards,
Bastien

your post is ridiculous. How many people goes to wvw with legendary/exotics? maybe 20%? if not, even less.

stick to your pve…. why would pve players go to wvw? do you know why the que for wvw is so long since the wvw season started? because the “pve-ers” want their kitten achievements. that’s the only reason they’d go to wvw. people who do wvw alot don’t even work toward accended because it would require them going to pve. Go to a big wvw guild and ask how many of them has accended/legendary. you will find no more than 20% have obtained it. I don’t see the 80% with exotics complaining about unfair playing field in wvw. I myself has a necro with exotics. and I dont think there’s an unfair thing. though, I would like anet to lower the material/costs to make accended.

also, the only players who are dead weight in wvw are players who are either afk or don’t contribute at all. Mind you, for everyone one player that is in there that is at lvl 2-79…the opposite team will probably have the same amount…all sides being equal on the coverage anyway. Ofc if Server A fields 80ppl and Server B has 10ppl on those numbers won’t be equal.

Yes, it makes the difference
Anyone saying “it doesn’t make a difference” is wrong.

A +1% boost is different then a +0% boost.

It will not be a big difference, but it is a difference nonetheless, and when a good team in sync on TS, on top of their game, is getting a +6% ‘better’ than the average pug, the average pug will just get stomped harder.

But it is the same as the food buff…
Nope, it is not the same, they stack. And the Ascended is another buff on top of it. And the food is available easily. I would not dare to say getting a character in full Ascended is as easy as getting the right food. They are like a world apart.

Legendaries
If you are talking about legendaries, you miss the point. The problem is about Ascended Stats vs Exotics stats. Legendary or not, the problem is the Ascended Stat > Exotic Stat.

Making the gap bigger
It makes the gap bigger between the most active players and the casual players. And many competitive players don’t like this idea. IMO, it is garbage. And lets be honest, the most active/hardcore players are more likely to grind the Ascended, just like they are more likely to already run the best builds, run in better coordinated groups, etc.

So the question is, why the hell do you boost players that are more likely to already be at an advantage (experience, min-max builds, time-invested, coordination, etc)? Why make the gap bigger?

I am in such a team, and I don’t need/want this boost. I would rather have a new player to the game play 1-2 months and be on par with me stat-wise, even if I played this game for a year now.

Unavailable through WvW
Another matter : they are completely unavailable through WvW, but the stat boost applies in WvW. How does that even makes sense? How comes in a PvP mode, to get the best gear, you don’t have to kill people to unlock the end-gear (i.e. badges? hello?) but rather gather materials and do crafting???

This is a different problem, because even if Ascended were lets say 5000 badges each, it would still not be very ‘alt’ or ‘new player’ friendly, not at all. It would still promote the “I played this game longer, grinded longer and invested more money, thus I beat you…” mentality.

IMO, the 2 problems need to be fixed:
- Ascended Stats way too hard to get, making the gap bigger for new/casual players
- Ascended Gear (at large) should be available through WvW, as always WvW is like the poor kid

TooBz.3065:

Mackdose.6504:

TooBz.3065:

Mackdose.6504:

Pariah.8506:

Vol.5241:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

because the effort to code all that is not worth it? Let alone all the people who invested badges/laurels for ascended gear. We want to shaft those people?

But the effort of designing, coding, modelling, animating and testing to introduce a feature that “makes absolutely no difference” was?

Ascended gear is a armor with an infusion slot for a mechanic introduced as an endless dungeon grind to provide long term goals for players after they completed their exotic set.

It makes “no difference” to the outcome of a WvW match.

It makes larger differences on smaller scales, but never poses an advantage that can’t be overcome by smart play, due to the way combat mechanics work.

I’m kitten sure that any fight I lose to a player I would have lost whether or not he has ascended. There’s just so much more influencing fights than numbers on the gear, and that is obviously by design.

It affects my enjoyment of WvW. No matter how many times someone says “it doesn’t matter” or “it doesn’t affect anything.” It matters to me, it affects me. I enjoy the game less because it’s there. It stops me from doing things I find fun.

It affects your enjoyment how? Try not to be ephemeral.

What exactly are you being stopped by?

So you can tell me I’m wrong? Here’s a non-ephemeral answer (note: enjoyment is subjective)

I have 7 level 80 characters. I have played this game for over a year because every time I get bored with a character I can swap over to another one. Usually the swap is caused by two factors. 1) I am starting to get bored with my current main and 2) I read about a build or think of a build I haven’t tried.

This means that swapping characters is usually accompanied by some degree of a respec. New gear, new stat combinations, at the very least new weapons.

So far I have played (for a considerable amount of time) A P/D thief, a GS / LB ranger, a S/Sw/F mesmer, a D/D ele, a S/D thief, a Axe/Mace/GS warrior, a glamour mesmer, H/S AH Guardian, a BM ranger, A Mantra mesmer, and A Hammer/Sword/wh Warrior. I’ve briefly toyed with Necro’s and Engineers, but haven’t really gotten into them.

I can’t / don’t want to commit to one class or build. Ascended gear makes it more difficult for me to swap around. I don’t want to try new things because I know I’m never going to get the ascended stuff for the build. For example, while I would happly swap out an exotic Zerker amulet for a Rabid one, I’m not going to do the same for ascended gear. It’s too cumbersome to get.

Therefore, I get frustrated. I want to try something, but it’s too expensive / time consuming to do it.

Oh, and I don’t play the game to get frustrated. (In case it wasn’t obvious, you never can tell)

So here’s my question: Why not just experiment with exotic gear and forget about ascended?

The difference, with the exception of the weapon, is negligible.

Shiver.5903:

Unavailable through WvW
Another matter : they are completely unavailable through WvW, but the stat boost applies in WvW. How does that even makes sense? How comes in a PvP mode, to get the best gear, you don’t have to kill people to unlock the end-gear (i.e. badges? hello?) but rather gather materials and do crafting???

IMO, the 2 problems need to be fixed:
- Ascended Stats way too hard to get, making the gap bigger for new/casual players
- Ascended Gear (at large) should be available through WvW, as always WvW is like the poor kid

Ascended gear is available through WvW or didn’t you get the memo?
Weapons=various woods/metals/ecto…the only portion not obtainable through specifically WvW is obsidian shards.

Trinkets=laurels just like in pve. Guild Comms and fractals just make getting those things faster.

Backpieces=crafted in all forms of pve, WvW and regular world. Fractals just have the capacitor skins.

There are crafting stations in EB and your home BL. They are there for a reason. You can mine and cut down trees along with killing players to get mats also. Taking objectives get needed items too. WvW is just a slower way to do these things.

Akari Storm.6809:

Shiver.5903:

Unavailable through WvW
Another matter : they are completely unavailable through WvW, but the stat boost applies in WvW. How does that even makes sense? How comes in a PvP mode, to get the best gear, you don’t have to kill people to unlock the end-gear (i.e. badges? hello?) but rather gather materials and do crafting???

IMO, the 2 problems need to be fixed:
- Ascended Stats way too hard to get, making the gap bigger for new/casual players
- Ascended Gear (at large) should be available through WvW, as always WvW is like the poor kid

Ascended gear is available through WvW or didn’t you get the memo?
Weapons=various woods/metals/ecto…the only portion not obtainable through specifically WvW is obsidian shards.

Trinkets=laurels just like in pve. Guild Comms and fractals just make getting those things faster.

Backpieces=crafted in all forms of pve, WvW and regular world. Fractals just have the capacitor skins.

There are crafting stations in EB and your home BL. They are there for a reason. You can mine and cut down trees along with killing players to get mats also. Taking objectives get needed items too. WvW is just a slower way to do these things.

That is just to much work for some people. They want it to either be free and easy to get or banned from usage. Regardless of the fact they have the exact same option as everyone else in getting one.

Bastien.1645:

I realise now how short-sighted people in this forum are, the problem is not having 1 or 2 items, the problem is in 1 year time when every one is walking around in full ascended, it will make it incredibly difficult for levellers or new players to compete and enter World vs World, this will create an elitist mentality and unwillingness to cooperate/help new players progressing in WvW because they will be dead weight (even harder to carry then they are now). Now this would be okay if ascended gear was open to every one but it’s only open to A) People who do Fractals People with hundreds of gold. Both of those types of people are usually not PvP’ers or new players.

I don’t mind grinds and PvE vertical progression but Anet needs to keep it out of WvWvW so that new players can easily access it and not feel at a disadvantage when starting out PvP, they will already have a huge skill disadvantage I don’t believe they should be at a gear disadvantage as well.

This will also benefit alts and players who enjoy playing more than 1 character/1 build.

Ding ding ding we have a winner. This is what Blizzard realized long ago and which many of the newer lest experience game studio’s just don’t get yet. They all cry OMG the gear progression!!!!!!! Well yes in this game the Ascended gear progression taking months do do in 4 years just won’t be worth it to a new player. They’ll look at the game and go pffffft.

In WoW and some other more refined games you have a catch up. Each PvP season last for about 4-8 months. Then there is a new tier. That new tier has 3 levels in it. The Honor or easy level gets you caught up really fast and easy. Then the meat of the tier is the Conquest or mid level gear. Takes about a week per piece to get with everything being acquired in about 10 weeks. Then there is the cream of the crop rated gear that you actually have to have rating against other player to get. But if you start late getting in to the Honor gear is really easy. So anyone can pick up the game and get current really fast. Then come the next season they’ll be equal with everyone else and able to participate. That is good game design.

So while I’m giving WoW a break during WvW Season One if I decide that this game is still the worst time sink grind fest I’ve ever seen it’ll be really fast to catch back up when I go back.

Mackdose.6504:

TooBz.3065:

Mackdose.6504:

TooBz.3065:

Mackdose.6504:

Pariah.8506:

Vol.5241:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vol.5241:

Ascended gear in WvW is irrelevant. You will not notice the difference, especially when you consider the other bigger variables, such as orb buff, party buffs and blob size

If it’s irrelevant then what’s wrong with making it really irrelevant and disallowing it in WvW?

because the effort to code all that is not worth it? Let alone all the people who invested badges/laurels for ascended gear. We want to shaft those people?

But the effort of designing, coding, modelling, animating and testing to introduce a feature that “makes absolutely no difference” was?

Ascended gear is a armor with an infusion slot for a mechanic introduced as an endless dungeon grind to provide long term goals for players after they completed their exotic set.

It makes “no difference” to the outcome of a WvW match.

It makes larger differences on smaller scales, but never poses an advantage that can’t be overcome by smart play, due to the way combat mechanics work.

I’m kitten sure that any fight I lose to a player I would have lost whether or not he has ascended. There’s just so much more influencing fights than numbers on the gear, and that is obviously by design.

It affects my enjoyment of WvW. No matter how many times someone says “it doesn’t matter” or “it doesn’t affect anything.” It matters to me, it affects me. I enjoy the game less because it’s there. It stops me from doing things I find fun.

It affects your enjoyment how? Try not to be ephemeral.

What exactly are you being stopped by?

So you can tell me I’m wrong? Here’s a non-ephemeral answer (note: enjoyment is subjective)

I have 7 level 80 characters. I have played this game for over a year because every time I get bored with a character I can swap over to another one. Usually the swap is caused by two factors. 1) I am starting to get bored with my current main and 2) I read about a build or think of a build I haven’t tried.

This means that swapping characters is usually accompanied by some degree of a respec. New gear, new stat combinations, at the very least new weapons.

So far I have played (for a considerable amount of time) A P/D thief, a GS / LB ranger, a S/Sw/F mesmer, a D/D ele, a S/D thief, a Axe/Mace/GS warrior, a glamour mesmer, H/S AH Guardian, a BM ranger, A Mantra mesmer, and A Hammer/Sword/wh Warrior. I’ve briefly toyed with Necro’s and Engineers, but haven’t really gotten into them.

I can’t / don’t want to commit to one class or build. Ascended gear makes it more difficult for me to swap around. I don’t want to try new things because I know I’m never going to get the ascended stuff for the build. For example, while I would happly swap out an exotic Zerker amulet for a Rabid one, I’m not going to do the same for ascended gear. It’s too cumbersome to get.

Therefore, I get frustrated. I want to try something, but it’s too expensive / time consuming to do it.

Oh, and I don’t play the game to get frustrated. (In case it wasn’t obvious, you never can tell)

So here’s my question: Why not just experiment with exotic gear and forget about ascended?

The difference, with the exception of the weapon, is negligible.

That was what I was going to do. Then ANet nerfed Karma (so many respects into Rabid gear / PVT and I don’t have much karma left), so they made the most important WvW stats difficult to get.

Also, I don’t like always being less powerful than the next guy. I’m fine with getting stomped when I mess up, or when I’m outplayed. I do mind when I almost win a fight, but get stomped by someone wielding ascended weapons. Cause I don’t know if I got outplayed or just out grinded (it’s that a word??? You know what I mean).

And frankly, unless you have BiS gear, you don’t really know what the build can do. Is it less effective because a) I stink (always a possibility) or b) because I’m operating at a 5-8% deficit against other players.

Edit: Oh, and I’m bad a pattern recognition, so my brain always thinks “this will be my main, better start gearing up to ascended.” however, 4 – “this will be my main’s” later, I’m ready to throw the computer out the window.

TooBz.3065:

That was what I was going to do. Then ANet nerfed Karma (so many respects into Rabid gear / PVT and I don’t have much karma left), so they made the most important WvW stats difficult to get.

Also, I don’t like always being less powerful than the next guy. I’m fine with getting stomped when I mess up, or when I’m outplayed. I do mind when I almost win a fight, but get stomped by someone wielding ascended weapons. Cause I don’t know if I got outplayed or just out grinded (it’s that a word??? You know what I mean).

And frankly, unless you have BiS gear, you don’t really know what the build can do. Is it less effective because a) I stink (always a possibility) or b) because I’m operating at a 5-8% deficit against other players.

Edit: Oh, and I’m bad a pattern recognition, so my brain always thinks “this will be my main, better start gearing up to ascended.” however, 4 – “this will be my main’s” later, I’m ready to throw the computer out the window.

Problem is that the 8% is the measurement apples to apples with type. Zerker vs Rabid vs Valkrie are all going to be different relative to the same tier. This means that Zerker Exotics probably out damage more than half of the ascended sets.

Once you have a weapon, the gap is essentially bridged. People have blown this so far out of proportion by mentioning percentage increase over actual applicable numbers, when combined with skill coefficients you could theorize the potential maximums of any given build.

I’m in almost full exotics my main, and I murder people who have ascended weapons. It’s to the point where my play experience tells me that a fight I lose I was going to lose regardless of gear. The class and build of the enemy is usually what kills me.

People still defend this by saying “the stats don’t matter lol” even after it’s debunked literally every time it’s brought up? I thought only marketing shills did that.

Because surely if the stats are “too small to make a difference” then there’s no point in having them there in the first place, right? If they don’t make a difference, why is removing them bad? It won’t make any difference. LOL I DUNNO BUT I GETS PAID TO DEFEND ANET ON THEIR FORUM

“Small stat differences don’t matter”. I wonder how DOTA players who waste their time and starting gold getting Iron Branches would have to say to that. Or SC2 players that very literally practice builds just to get a certain unit out 0.5 seconds faster.

The only defense for this nonsense in WvW is the great “yeah well WvW is already unbalanced and it’s supposed to be that way” technique, which is a good deflection, but it doesn’t really explain how keeping it that way and avoiding improvements in that department is a bad thing instead of a good one. I mean, Anet already knows WvW populations are all over the place and completely imbalanced. Surely, that means it’s ok if they stay that way and nobody bothers to try and create balanced matchups, right? Who cares! It’s supposed to be broken and imba!

TainoFuerte.8136:

People still defend this by saying “the stats don’t matter lol” even after it’s debunked literally every time it’s brought up? I thought only marketing shills did that.

Because surely if the stats are “too small to make a difference” then there’s no point in having them there in the first place, right? If they don’t make a difference, why is removing them bad? It won’t make any difference. LOL I DUNNO BUT I GETS PAID TO DEFEND ANET ON THEIR FORUM

“Small stat differences don’t matter”. I wonder how DOTA players who waste their time and starting gold getting Iron Branches would have to say to that. Or SC2 players that very literally practice builds just to get a certain unit out 0.5 seconds faster.

The only defense for this nonsense in WvW is the great “yeah well WvW is already unbalanced and it’s supposed to be that way” technique, which is a good deflection, but it doesn’t really explain how keeping it that way and avoiding improvements in that department is a bad thing instead of a good one. I mean, Anet already knows WvW populations are all over the place and completely imbalanced. Surely, that means it’s ok if they stay that way and nobody bothers to try and create balanced matchups, right? Who cares! It’s supposed to be broken and imba!

It’s the stat differences in relation to the other mechanics that makes the small stat increase not matter.
WvW outcomes week to week? Gear makes no difference.
Zerg V Zerg? – Little to no difference.
Havok squad match ups? – Small difference, but probably hard to detect.
3v3 – Small difference that you maybe notice once and a while.
1v1 – small but noticeable difference.

The point I’m making isn’t that there’s no change at all, but that in the scope of game play moment to moment, class, build, and skill of the participants dictate the outcome of fights, with gear playing a non-trivial but negligible part in the outcome.

Yes, explain to me how in a game where virtually every interaction with your opponent is reliant on number calculations, extra numbers don’t matter.

Explain to me how you reached these conclusions. How do you know gear makes no difference in this situation but not these I’ve selected? Because I’m sure I’ve been in zerg battles where I’ve not gotten downed and become a rally bot by about 100 HP and that these battles are, coincidentally, the biggest most brutal ones that we really want to win for Stonemist or a Keep. Surely it makes no difference if an army of As men fights an army of newbies in rares or exotics right?

I’m genuinely interested in which statistical technique you used to determine the percentage of “non-trivial” yet, at the same time, at the same time are “negligible”. Because, I don’t know, it’s “hard to detect” but somehow you can tell me that it doesn’t matter except it does so that’s why it should stay the way it is.

Mackdose.6504:

TainoFuerte.8136:

People still defend this by saying “the stats don’t matter lol” even after it’s debunked literally every time it’s brought up? I thought only marketing shills did that.

Because surely if the stats are “too small to make a difference” then there’s no point in having them there in the first place, right? If they don’t make a difference, why is removing them bad? It won’t make any difference. LOL I DUNNO BUT I GETS PAID TO DEFEND ANET ON THEIR FORUM

“Small stat differences don’t matter”. I wonder how DOTA players who waste their time and starting gold getting Iron Branches would have to say to that. Or SC2 players that very literally practice builds just to get a certain unit out 0.5 seconds faster.

The only defense for this nonsense in WvW is the great “yeah well WvW is already unbalanced and it’s supposed to be that way” technique, which is a good deflection, but it doesn’t really explain how keeping it that way and avoiding improvements in that department is a bad thing instead of a good one. I mean, Anet already knows WvW populations are all over the place and completely imbalanced. Surely, that means it’s ok if they stay that way and nobody bothers to try and create balanced matchups, right? Who cares! It’s supposed to be broken and imba!

It’s the stat differences in relation to the other mechanics that makes the small stat increase not matter.
WvW outcomes week to week? Gear makes no difference.
Zerg V Zerg? – Little to no difference.
Havok squad match ups? – Small difference, but probably hard to detect.
3v3 – Small difference that you maybe notice once and a while.
1v1 – small but noticeable difference.

The point I’m making isn’t that there’s no change at all, but that in the scope of game play moment to moment, class, build, and skill of the participants dictate the outcome of fights, with gear playing a non-trivial but negligible part in the outcome.

But Vayne, uh, I mean Mr. Mackdose, you’ve said yourself there are a lot of factors to a fight.
And a huge one is the confidence you get from knowing the odds are on your side – that you are more likely to win and have an advantage over your opponent.

Take this from someone who had practised fencing for 8 years on a competitive level.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Yes, explain to me how in a game where virtually every interaction with your opponent is reliant on number calculations, extra numbers don’t matter.

Explain to me how you reached these conclusions. How do you know gear makes no difference in this situation but not these I’ve selected? Because I’m sure I’ve been in zerg battles where I’ve not gotten downed and become a rally bot by about 100 HP and that these battles are, coincidentally, the biggest most brutal ones that we really want to win for Stonemist or a Keep. Surely it makes no difference if an army of As men fights an army of newbies in rares of exotics right?

I’m genuinely interested in which statistical technique you used to determine the percentage of “non-trivial” yet, at the same time, at the same time are “negligible”. Because, I don’t know, it’s “hard to detect” but somehow you can tell me that it doesn’t matter except it does so that’s why it should stay the way it is.

I just laugh now when they claim the differences are trivial but when anyone brings up the topic of capping WvW at exotic level gear they scream bloody murder. I guess they get mad when the possibility of the gear they worked “so hard” for gets invalidated. You know, that supposedly trivial gear with negligible impact.

Incidentally, these are probably the same people who scream at dungeon pugs for not being in full zerker because it’s suboptimal.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Yes, explain to me how in a game where virtually every interaction with your opponent is reliant on number calculations, extra numbers don’t matter.

Explain to me how you reached these conclusions. How do you know gear makes no difference? Because I’m sure I’ve been in zerg battles where I’ve not gotten downed and become a rally bot by about 100 HP and that these battles are, coincidentally, the biggest most brutal ones that we really want to win for Stonemist or a Keep.

I’m genuinely interested in which statistical technique you used to determine the percentage of “non-trivial” yet, at the same time, at the same time are “negligible”. Because, I don’t know, it’s “hard to detect” but somehow you can tell me that it doesn’t matter except it does so that’s why it should stay the way it is.

Law of averages. If you think I’m going to go commission a study to compile a kitten load of real-world data just to have your confirmation bias say it was flawed, you’ve got another think coming.

The numbers aren’t important with the gap is small, it’s the execution by the players that will determine the outcome.

What everyone is arguing here is that since the numbers are higher, you are already favored in the fight by default.

My argument is that the advantage given by higher stats is easily overcome by a multitude of factors that make the advantage null and void.

I have no idea why people aren’t celebrating this fact after WoW’s exponential PvP gear releases.

Mackdose.6504:

Law of averages. If you think I’m going to go commission a study to compile a kitten load of real-world data just to have your confirmation bias say it was flawed, you’ve got another think coming.

So, what you mean to say is that you’ve got nothing. Ok.

The numbers aren’t important with the gap is small, it’s the execution by the players that will determine the outcome.

Right, that’s why nobody bothers getting Ascended gear in the first place, and why nobody bothers getting Iron Branches in DOTA because they give you a single sad, lonely point in damage. Small differences don’t matter in PvP. Tell me more.

What everyone is arguing here is that since the numbers are higher, you are already favored in the fight by default.

My argument is that the advantage given by higher stats is easily overcome by a multitude of factors that make the advantage null and void.

Your argument does not invalidate the first. “Well, stats aren’t everything.” Ok? That doesn’t make them go away.

Pariah.8506:

Mackdose.6504:

TainoFuerte.8136:

People still defend this by saying “the stats don’t matter lol” even after it’s debunked literally every time it’s brought up? I thought only marketing shills did that.

Because surely if the stats are “too small to make a difference” then there’s no point in having them there in the first place, right? If they don’t make a difference, why is removing them bad? It won’t make any difference. LOL I DUNNO BUT I GETS PAID TO DEFEND ANET ON THEIR FORUM

“Small stat differences don’t matter”. I wonder how DOTA players who waste their time and starting gold getting Iron Branches would have to say to that. Or SC2 players that very literally practice builds just to get a certain unit out 0.5 seconds faster.

The only defense for this nonsense in WvW is the great “yeah well WvW is already unbalanced and it’s supposed to be that way” technique, which is a good deflection, but it doesn’t really explain how keeping it that way and avoiding improvements in that department is a bad thing instead of a good one. I mean, Anet already knows WvW populations are all over the place and completely imbalanced. Surely, that means it’s ok if they stay that way and nobody bothers to try and create balanced matchups, right? Who cares! It’s supposed to be broken and imba!

It’s the stat differences in relation to the other mechanics that makes the small stat increase not matter.
WvW outcomes week to week? Gear makes no difference.
Zerg V Zerg? – Little to no difference.
Havok squad match ups? – Small difference, but probably hard to detect.
3v3 – Small difference that you maybe notice once and a while.
1v1 – small but noticeable difference.

The point I’m making isn’t that there’s no change at all, but that in the scope of game play moment to moment, class, build, and skill of the participants dictate the outcome of fights, with gear playing a non-trivial but negligible part in the outcome.

But Vayne, uh, I mean Mr. Mackdose, you’ve said yourself there are a lot of factors to a fight.
And a huge one is the confidence you get from knowing the odds are on your side – that you are more likely to win and have an advantage over your opponent.

Take this from someone who had practised fencing for 8 years on a competitive level.

I really like how having a reasonable opinion and not jumping on the emotional tunnel vision bandwagon makes me Vayne.

Does that confidence give you a tangible gameplay advantage?

TainoFuerte.8136:

Mackdose.6504:

Law of averages. If you think I’m going to go commission a study to compile a kitten load of real-world data just to have your confirmation bias say it was flawed, you’ve got another think coming.

So, what you mean to say is that you’ve got nothing. Ok.

The numbers aren’t important with the gap is small, it’s the execution by the players that will determine the outcome.

Right, that’s why nobody bothers getting Ascended gear in the first place, and why nobody bothers getting Iron Branches in DOTA because they give you a single sad, lonely point in damage. Small differences don’t matter in PvP. Tell me more.

What everyone is arguing here is that since the numbers are higher, you are already favored in the fight by default.

My argument is that the advantage given by higher stats is easily overcome by a multitude of factors that make the advantage null and void.

Your argument does not invalidate the first. “Well, stats aren’t everything.” Ok? That doesn’t make them go away.

It doesn’t make them bad, either.

Small changes matter in PvP. But we’re in WvW, which has a different objective and gameplay than structured PvP. The objective isn’t “beat players 1v1 to feel special.” Therefore gear imbalance isn’t a priority. It isn’t even a problem.

This gives me room to clarify: If sPvP had an ascended progression, that I would argue against, because SPvP really is meant to be tightly controlled at that scale.

WvW is already imba. It can’t be perfectly balanced ever in it’s current format. No, that’s not saying it can’t be improved.

WvW is meant to be the open world PvPvE game. It is statistically imbalanced on a player level because it uses the gear from PvE. Why change what wasn’t a problem before? Why blow dev time on something they designed to be that way?

I SOOOO saw this coming.

Bastien.1645:

Bezayne.6459:

Bastien.1645:

… I believe the weapons cost 200g each, the trinkets/accessories using Laurels would take almost a year to get and the back piece is not even available, and that’s assuming you do your daily every single day. Fractals should not be required to play PvP competitively.

Hugely exaggerated on about every point, which makes it hard to take your post seriously to begin with. While you do have a point in trying to discuss the effects of ascended gear on wvw, please go get your facts straight before doing so.

Neither is crafting ascended weapons that outrageously expensive, nor does it take a year to get ascended pieces for one character. Ascended back pieces are available, even though restricted to a specific type of content currently.

Let’s see…

Amulet: 30 Laurels x 1
Rings: 35 Laurens ea x 2
Accessories: 40 Laurels + 50 Ecto x 2

I count 180 Laurels, let’s assume you have a life and don’t play every single day of the year because you know, god forbid people have a job/family, it will probably take you 2/3 of a year just to get the Amulet, Accessories and Rings on 1 character.

With regards to the weapons being 200g, I don’t know if that’s true or not but that’s what most people in these forums say, I have 0 intention of getting them so I don’t know if that’s true or not but anything more then 25-50g for a single weapon I would consider it to be outside the reach of someone who plays PvP, most classes need at the very minimum 4 weapons to do PvP so unless you’re buying gems > gold I really doubt most WvWvW players can afford it just doing world vs world.

Back piece: Can you even get this one without doing fractals?

I only have 1 ascended piece which is the amulet so please feel free to correct me and let me know where I exaggerate my point?

I have a full set of Ascended on my Warrior, so 6 pieces, My guardian has 3 pieces of ascended, my ranger has 5 pieces of ascended, my mesmer has 1 piece, my ele has 3 pieces.

So lets see here:

Amulets: 5 × 30 = 150 laurels
Rings: 8 × 35 = 280 laurels
Accessories: 4 × 40 = 160 laurels
Total: 590 laurels

Ascended weapons do not cost 200g to make. It takes about 200g to go from 400 to 500 crafting thou. But once you reach 500 crafting you can make a large number of ascended weapons without worry. I got 3 ascended weapons already and can easily make more if I so choose. Ascended are not hard to get at all. Hell sometimes they are easier to get than exotic (amulets for instance).

Also completing your monthly gives you 10 laurels. so you can get 40 laurels per month. Which is 4.5 months to get everything just using laurels. Big question thou who in the right mind would waste 40 laurels + ecto for an accessory when you can get 12 guild commendations + gold and get the accessory?

Why waste 35 laurels when you can just run a FOTM per day (lvl10+ really really not hard to get to nor hard to find a group for) and just get the rings that way. You can waste 35 days to get a ring or waste 10 days to get a ring…… option B sounds a lot smarter.

If you going to complain about how long do note there are other options available for each ascended item. You may dislike FOTM but than you are personally making that choice not to do the content and should not complain that you have to do it another route. Hell most games do not give you another option to get BiS gear. In WoW you have to raid. If you do not like raiding your SOL.

Ascended Weapons you have to craft or get lucky. I know for certain that they do drop cause I got lucky than I crafted my other 2.

Mackdose.6504:

WvW is meant to be the open world PvPvE game. It is statistically imbalanced on a player level because it uses the gear from PvE. Why change what wasn’t a problem before? Why blow dev time on something they designed to be that way?

It became a problem to the players like the OP when they added Ascended gear to an already unbalanced system that unbalances it further.

That the developers designed it intentionally does not automatically mean it is good. Otherwise, it would mean developers could design terrible content (poop) intentionally and we’d have to think it’s fine that they gave us some poop. A poop by design is still a poop. Players will still expect, and rightfully so, that Anet try and encourage balanced server matchups even though WvW wasn’t intended to be balanced and can never be perfectly balanced. Improvements.

Mackdose.6504:

Pariah.8506:

Mackdose.6504:

TainoFuerte.8136:

People still defend this by saying “the stats don’t matter lol” even after it’s debunked literally every time it’s brought up? I thought only marketing shills did that.

Because surely if the stats are “too small to make a difference” then there’s no point in having them there in the first place, right? If they don’t make a difference, why is removing them bad? It won’t make any difference. LOL I DUNNO BUT I GETS PAID TO DEFEND ANET ON THEIR FORUM

“Small stat differences don’t matter”. I wonder how DOTA players who waste their time and starting gold getting Iron Branches would have to say to that. Or SC2 players that very literally practice builds just to get a certain unit out 0.5 seconds faster.

The only defense for this nonsense in WvW is the great “yeah well WvW is already unbalanced and it’s supposed to be that way” technique, which is a good deflection, but it doesn’t really explain how keeping it that way and avoiding improvements in that department is a bad thing instead of a good one. I mean, Anet already knows WvW populations are all over the place and completely imbalanced. Surely, that means it’s ok if they stay that way and nobody bothers to try and create balanced matchups, right? Who cares! It’s supposed to be broken and imba!

It’s the stat differences in relation to the other mechanics that makes the small stat increase not matter.
WvW outcomes week to week? Gear makes no difference.
Zerg V Zerg? – Little to no difference.
Havok squad match ups? – Small difference, but probably hard to detect.
3v3 – Small difference that you maybe notice once and a while.
1v1 – small but noticeable difference.

The point I’m making isn’t that there’s no change at all, but that in the scope of game play moment to moment, class, build, and skill of the participants dictate the outcome of fights, with gear playing a non-trivial but negligible part in the outcome.

But Vayne, uh, I mean Mr. Mackdose, you’ve said yourself there are a lot of factors to a fight.
And a huge one is the confidence you get from knowing the odds are on your side – that you are more likely to win and have an advantage over your opponent.

Take this from someone who had practised fencing for 8 years on a competitive level.

I really like how having a reasonable opinion and not jumping on the emotional tunnel vision bandwagon makes me Vayne.

Does that confidence give you a tangible gameplay advantage?

Relax man, don’t take yourself too seriously, it’s just a joke

And to answer your question: Yes, yes it does.
90% of what we do depends on mental capabilities more than on physical ones, and playing a video game certainly falls in the former category.
And I have many times, first-hand had the opportunity the witness the amazing power of confidence in a match. So not only does it matter on a pure mathematical level (I disagree with the notion that small changes = no changes) but also on a psychological one.

If we remove ascended gear from wvw I vote we should also make it so you have to be level 80 to enter wvw.

After all it’s not fair to some one who is level 15 to have to fight against people who can use level 80 exotics.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Mackdose.6504:

WvW is meant to be the open world PvPvE game. It is statistically imbalanced on a player level because it uses the gear from PvE. Why change what wasn’t a problem before? Why blow dev time on something they designed to be that way?

It became a problem to the players like the OP when they added Ascended gear to an already unbalanced system that unbalances it further.

That the developers designed it intentionally does not automatically mean it is good. Otherwise, it would mean developers could design terrible content (poop) intentionally and we’d have to think it’s fine that they gave us some poop. A poop by design is still a poop. Players will still expect, and rightfully so, that Anet try and encourage balanced server matchups even though WvW wasn’t intended to be balanced and can never be perfectly balanced. Improvements.

But I’m not talking about server balance, and that’s not what the thread is about.

This thread is about whether or not we should change WvW’s ruleset to scale earned armor down because people don’t want to put in the effort to earn it themselves.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Xillllix.3485:

So your saying disable all the gear I use (which includes 6 ascended trinkets and 4 ascended weapons). Because what, crafting is too complicated for you? What the hell? Get a grip on yourself.

This is a game and you play it how it’s supposed to be played.

What exactly do you find so offensive about evening out the playing field?

As for crafting that garbage? I have better things to do than brainlessly running champ trains for the required mats. Stunning, engaging gameplay right there LOL!

How is the playing field not even? You have just as much opportunity to get ascended gear as everyone else. If you’re to lazy to go after it then that’s entirely your own problem.

I’m in a hardcore speed run dungeon guild. We need ascended weapons as badly as WvWers need them.

Why do I have to do open world boss content to get the dragonite for them? It is not at all fair that I should have to go outside my chosen game mode to get gear to play my game mode.

See how dumb this sounds?

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

I’m in a hardcore speed run dungeon guild. We need ascended weapons as badly as WvWers need them.

Why do I have to do open world boss content to get the dragonite for them? It is not at all fair that I should have to go outside my chosen game mode to get gear to play my game mode.

See how dumb this sounds?

Except you want ascended weapons because they make your DPS higher and increase the speed with which you can complete the dungeon. So you for, ANet said “hey, do this kitten and we’ll improve your gameplay”

A subset of WvW’ers do not want ascended weapons because they unbalance the game mode and discourage new players from getting involved in WvW. So it’s like ANet said “hey, we’ve decided to kitten your gameplay, do this stuff to fix it.”

edit: I like your videos,