Guild Wars 2

smekras.8203:

bad mechanics can be fixed. i know that i’m having a lot more fun playing my ranger than any of my other 7 chars

Well A.Net didn’t manage to do that in 8 years (GW1)

Rifter.6591:

Sauzo.6821:

Rifter.6591:

Sauzo.6821:

Honestly if ANet did anything, i think they should detune warrior alittle. It is alot above other classes in dps AND they get heavy armor. I mean this is based on equal player skill cause like i said before, i’ve grouped with warriors who barely outdps an afk person cause they spent more time downed. I’m sure i’ll get flamed by warriors for this but that’s cause they know it’s true as well

I disagree completly, and not just because i run a warrior

You have to remember you give up ALOT to get to that DPS output, for example my girldfriends level 80 elementalist has higher toughness than my warrior, i get hit harder than she does and she is in light armor. And she is running a +vitality set so almost has as many HP as me, her survivablity is much much greater than mine, which is a fair trade for the damage output i have IMO.

You give up alot of stats that could go to toughness or vitality to run that + critical damage setup.

Really? Cause i know warriors and necros have the highest base HPs in the game and i thought eles were down there with guards and thieves as the lowest. But also i bet on single target dps you prolly close to double the eles dps if she is stacking soldier gear. And is her toughness higher than yours as a base or is she factoring in the earth buff to toughness they get? I was talking to an ele friend of mine and he said he can buff his toughness through the roof but thats not a sustained thing so sure they can soak up a couple hits but after that…it’s game over.

her base HP is low but like i said + vitality is part of the three pluses on her armor so she picks some up there. She isnt running + toughness on her armor though just a little bit from rings/earrings which puts her 400ish above my toughness which is revieve absolutly zero boosts over stock.

You should actually try playing an elementalist :P. Warriors naturally have 8000 more HP than ele… Vitality only give 10 HP per vit. Also warriors have 300 more toughness due to having heavy armor.

Full PVT gives you 700 Vit (7000 HP) and 700 Toughness

Ultimately an ele in full zerker vs a warrior in full zerker: Warrior does more damage.
Ultimately an ele in full soldier vs a warrior in full soldier:Warrior does more damage…

It doesn’t matter what you do, a warrior is outright more powerful and has way more survivability than an ele has.

~With that said all my buddies and I have switched to guardians for 40+ fractals since warriors have no means of reflection or walling.
~This is also only for PVE, since engineers, necros, eles and rangers do have a purpose in PVP.

Well i don’t have an ranger myself but i love rangers in my party while doing fractals. Simply because pets can rez. My buddy even named his pet “rez o matic” and his pet is more famous in our guild then some players.
But removing a class is a big no no.

I say remove warriors, guardians, and elementalists.

I see them everywhere… they fill up my pugs all the time… I’m just tired of looking at them and they are over played when the ‘real’ classes are left alone. There’s too many of them which makes having a more diverse and interesting dungeon experience hard to find. Get rid of them please…

Also… I’d like to see the Twilight legendary removed from the game… I see 4 or 5 of them a day now out in the wild… I’m sick of looking at them and as everyone knows only exploiters get legendaries so they should be removed to help improve overall player skill.

/oblivious sarcasm.

@joe.9815

You are troll or you can’t play. Your choice.

I don’t know much about ranger and necros but when anet release more underwater content, engineers will shine

OP: not thank you- you don’t fix balance issues be limiting content.

My husband’s main is a Ranger and he loves playing him- so far I have never seen him having trouble in any content.

My main is a Mesmer which I love but I currently have an Egi at 58 or so that I am playing a lot
- and much as I love Mesmer, my Engi is just sooo much fun- also compared to both my Mesmers, my Engi is just all over more versatile and makes content much easier as a result.
I think Engineer is an awesome class.

Warriors may be powerful but my god I found it so boring I couldn’t get one past lvl16- same goes for Guardian- mine made it to lvl11

Out of all of the 3 listed “Remove” classes. Rangers are the only ones that make me cringe when they join a fractal pug.

The class is set up to be so totally anti-party friendly that it puts bad mechanics into many players hands. It teaches them to be bad.

Why? Because the pet tanks at lower levels. They don’t learn to dodge nearly as much as others are forced to. Because their longbow gets bonuses when at longer and longer range. So they avoid enemies even when they should be in melee range. (This is most notable when you are in the ascalon fractal and the ranger has all the NPC around them and when you try to drag the enemies to the npc ball, they jump back and run away….)

Couple that with how bad pets are in boss fights let alone agony situations and their DPS suffers. They have minimal AE skills and are mostly single target. vs almost all the other classes who are able to mostly hit everything around them.

The class is just set up terribly for group play. Especially in places like dungeons.

Remove them? No. Cry a little inside when your group consists solely of them? Sure. Go ahead.

Rifter.6591:

You have to remember you give up ALOT to get to that DPS output, for example my girldfriends level 80 elementalist has higher toughness than my warrior, i get hit harder than she does and she is in light armor. And she is running a +vitality set so almost has as many HP as me, her survivablity is much much greater than mine, which is a fair trade for the damage output i have IMO.

You give up alot of stats that could go to toughness or vitality to run that + critical damage setup.

And yet my support/selfheal guardian outdamages my glass cannon ele… while dying significantly less. Can’t compare with war yet, because i’m still in the process of levelling him, but so far he outperforms any ele in both damage and survivability (with the possible exception of d/d bunkers for survival)
Basically, wars seem to have enough dps, that they can afford to sacrifice some for survivability and still perform very well.

And as for rangers… i do know rangers that constantly manage to outtank guardians in fractals (granted, that is likely at least partially due to some of those guardian players not playing the class well). Some of the beastmaster/survival builds are really quite good (though pet mechanics do need severe overhaul).

kokiman.2364:

smekras.8203:

bad mechanics can be fixed. i know that i’m having a lot more fun playing my ranger than any of my other 7 chars

Well A.Net didn’t manage to do that in 8 years (GW1)

Well in fairness anyone who enjoys playing MMO’s tend to learn that balance is a never ending issue because as the games evolve so too does the need to rebalance things to accomadate playsyles, difficulty levels, challenge etc etc.. the list can go on and on.

The thing is, some players look to overcome the balance issues by experementing with build tweks and tactics…. where things can’t be overcome then suggestions on how to often go down better than "kill of “insert class” cos its broken".
Show me an MMO that doesn’t need to rebalnce its mechanics from time to time… heck where did the term NERF even come from

Actually I think Anet did a fair amount of rebalancing in GW1, you maybe just weren’t happy when nerfs hit your perticular builds, classes, favorite bosses etc so you think they failed.

This thread, Wow..Just…wow.

Ah .. I really like these types of threads because it lets me tell this again, and again …

Best dungeon run I ever had was doing Arah story with 3 rangers, 1 thief and 1 engineer.
My worst dungeon runs are always with at least 1 warrior in the party …

I cringe whenever I see a warrior in the group, cos this is most likely a player in MF kit with a glass cannon build who speed-leveled and never took the time to learn how to play …

Yes this is a completely serious thread……….

Sorry to burst your bubble but a post stating that 1/3 of the playable classes should be removed is by definition NOT to be taken seriously.

As we all know the classes of rangers, necros, and engies are generally considered weak and not fit for any role.

I think you just lack the basic understanding of what a supporting class role is for. The Engineer for example is not a DPS powerhouse but it’s a decent tanky class and can be a very good supporting class. I’ve played one for 600+ hours and strongly disagree with your notion that it serves no purpsose to be in the game.

So yes, the Picard facepalms and Picard/Riker double facepalms are certainly deserved

Balancing around COF speed runs, eh? Those classes have great tools, they’re just slightly trickier to practically use.

People won’t want to admint that their “babies” are inferior no matter how much facts you show them. I won’t say remove those classes, but there are severe, unadressed mechanical issues with some concepts in this game.
They can play around it and say “see, I can still make it work” or “a necro player will always outperform a bad guard player!”, which does nothing but detract from the argument. Everything else being equal, some classes can’t bring as much as other classes to a party.

For example: You can’t reliably do any good damage with condition builds in groups. The bleed cap prevents it, there is no player skill factor here, it is just mechanically impossible. If we accept this, a lot of the builds that work well solo fall apart. Necros completely, thiefs with bleed builds and most rangers (who have other issues too of course).
Mindlessly defending something that just doesn’t work is only denying the truth that some mechanics in this game definitely need to be addressed, and that the developers so far have been either unwilling or unable to do so, as sad as it sounds.

I quite enjoy my necro and engineer (probably my two favorite professions along with my elementalist). I do feel Rangers could use a little more spicing up though.

SERIOUSLY!?!?!? So your solution to something that needs some fixing is to completely remove it???

I truly hope you never consider a career in the army or health care:

Patient: “Dr! My leg hurts!”
Dr. Joe: “No problem, we just chop it off!”

Wounded soldier: “Captain, help!”
Captain Joe: “BANG” (deadly headshot) Now we are good!

Ok ok, jokes aside, I agree that those mentioned professions need a lot of attention from Anet. But that doesn’t mean they are not fun or not viable in groups.

In my opinion Anet must fix those professions and give the warrior a massive nerf.
Dungeons are not supposed to be done solo by any profession. When that is possible (even when the player is god-like skilled) it’s just something wrong with game / profession mechanics.

wintermute.4096:

For example: You can’t reliably do any good damage with condition builds in groups. The bleed cap prevents it, there is no player skill factor here, it is just mechanically impossible. If we accept this, a lot of the builds that work well solo fall apart. Necros completely, thiefs with bleed builds and most rangers (who have other issues too of course).

This is a problem with the other two damaging debuffs, as well; with two fire users in the group, you’ll create far more uptime than you need, and depending on the user, poison can suffer the same problem.

wintermute.4096:

People won’t want to admint that their “babies” are inferior no matter how much facts you show them. I won’t say remove those classes, but there are severe, unadressed mechanical issues with some concepts in this game.
They can play around it and say “see, I can still make it work” or “a necro player will always outperform a bad guard player!”, which does nothing but detract from the argument. Everything else being equal, some classes can’t bring as much as other classes to a party.

For example: You can’t reliably do any good damage with condition builds in groups. The bleed cap prevents it, there is no player skill factor here, it is just mechanically impossible. If we accept this, a lot of the builds that work well solo fall apart. Necros completely, thiefs with bleed builds and most rangers (who have other issues too of course).
Mindlessly defending something that just doesn’t work is only denying the truth that some mechanics in this game definitely need to be addressed, and that the developers so far have been either unwilling or unable to do so, as sad as it sounds.

Very good post. Well thought out.

My level 80s are: Warrior, Guardian, Ele, Mesmer, Necro. All geared in multiple exotic sets + ascended rings.

Of all the 80s, I enjoy necro the most in WvW vs zergs because there’s where the necro truly shines. Drop a bunch of conditions, laugh and run back.

However, in PvE, the necro of GW2 does not enjoy the awesome mechanics/fun of GW1 necro. In GW2, conditions on bosses expire too quickly, are shared with other players and pretty much make a conditionmancer (one of the most used necro builds of GW2) relatively weak. Moreover, power builds just don’t work well on necro. Even my damage specced guardian does way more DPS overall than my necro.

They need to bring back hexes the way it worked in GW1. Necros and mesmers should be able to hex others – to allow automatic damage when certain conditions are met such as enemy attacking, enemy missing, enemy using boons, etc. This will not only improve the overall DPS of necro, but also make playing a necro a lot more strategic. There is a necro skill which converts enemy boons to conditions but it does very little damage because those conditions don’t last too long (even with consumables). The recharge on some necro skills are also ridiculous at the moment, reducing overall effectiveness.

I was killing sentries for the daily event achievement.

20 seconds into the fight, the Flesh Golem was still standing there doing nothing regardless of whether I ranged or melee’d the sentry, or whether it hit me.

Gotta love crap AI being tied to so many classes.

Then you have randomness like engi elixirs and mesmer condition weapons/specs that make those aspects of the classes completely useless.

To be honest, Removing these 3 would have little or no Impact on WWvW as most avoid these classes which offer little other than free kills compared to Mesmers/Thieves/Guardians or Ellies (Although Rangers are getting more popular with the Trap build)
Sad as I love my Necro :-(

Bloodstealer.5978:

kokiman.2364:

smekras.8203:

bad mechanics can be fixed. i know that i’m having a lot more fun playing my ranger than any of my other 7 chars

Well A.Net didn’t manage to do that in 8 years (GW1)

Well in fairness anyone who enjoys playing MMO’s tend to learn that balance is a never ending issue because as the games evolve so too does the need to rebalance things to accomadate playsyles, difficulty levels, challenge etc etc.. the list can go on and on.

Completely wrong, we are not talking about numbers we are talking about core mechanics. The pet mechanic was until the end not really good and I was predicting the same for GW2 and I was right. I mean I can imagine what kind of horrible work it is to get it right but A.Net still insited on making it THE coremechanic of the ranger.

Sigh, another thread where people complain how their preferred playing style is not supported by all classes.

1st) Necro: are not weak! they’re just not as simple as guardian or warrior.. you actually gotta play smart instead of 1,2,3
2nd) Engi: are the most fun class there is, and if played correctly the strongest
3rd) Ranger just needs to be less dependent on their pet and it would be fine, most rangers ignore the fact that pets are half if not more of their damage and usually leave them dead

tigirius.9014:

joe.9815:

If it can be fixed why haven’t they in about half a year..

that is a VERY VERY good question! If i had been online 2 hrs ago i would have posted “in before all the leetness and lrn2play posts” because that’s the only straw man argument the stockholm syndrome sufferers seem to have these days. seriously tell us again how wonderful the classes are and how there’s never a situation where their design fails. I’d love to hear it.

It’s no secret that the pet AI is horrible and that they pets die horribly. Other older titles had to give the pets a 90% immunity to AOE splash damage because it was so bad in those other games where AOE spam was rampant.

Theres a ton of problems that haven’t even been touched on necros and engis that are not bugs but massive gaping holes in the design of the classes that need addressing and just because a few people have learned to work around these holes doesn’t make you special, sorry, that’s not a lack of knowledge on how to play that’s simply the act of not standing up for your rights as a consumer to have a completed and balanced game and telling them “hey we’re not going to play unless you finally and at long last fix your game” issue, there’s no special status in workarounds. plain and simple.

And your strawman argument is that if we disagree with the OP’s premise, we’re obviously fanboys who can’t see past the ends of our noses.

What did the op expect? He offers a kneejerk “solution” to a “problem” many people seem to have dealt with in getting their characters to 80, and doing dungeons, pvp and wvw.

Why hasn’t Anet fixed his “issues” yet? That is a good question. Is removing the three professions a good idea? No.

You know, one of these days I’ll like playing a class that doesn’t get hated on every waking moment by “players who know what they’re doing”.

So just delete my lvl80 Ranger with full lvl 80 ‘zerker exotic gear and weapons. Um ya. Let’s do that.

Just make the F2 cast faster (or actually cast) and when I click heal, don’t do a 2-3 second delay, HEAL ME!!! That 2-3 seconds is a lifetime when a mob of 5 is on you in Orr. Otherwise I’m fine…

Sauzo.6821:

Don’t know but i’ve run with every classe in the game and only problems i have are with the player failing, not the class. I’ve been with guards who can’t stay alive, warriors who can’t stay alive, thieves who spend more time downed than dpsing. For me, people like that have my runs hell and slow.

That’s pretty much it, sadly…My friend who plays guardian sucks and can’t survive at all…and guard is the EZ mode profession of the game(I would rather have a good player that plays a necro/ranger/engi)… People don’t want to experiment with the so called worthless professions.

They aren’t useless but no where near on par with warrior. Warrior does not need a nerf, other professions need a buff…

You must not have played Necro for a long time if you think that pets are the only thing it uses.

Wonderful idea.
They really should remove all except warrior really.
Then remove all zones except CoF dungeon.
Then remove all players who can’t do speed runs.
Then only the real players who really know how to play would be left.

Lest I hit another infraction today, I’ll just say this.

These classes are indeed in need of improvement. But, when played to their strengths, they still earn their place in any party firmly. (minus cof farming runs)

What is already lacking is worsened when players “play their way” or “play for fun” then it just worsens the issue.

You as the player are ultimately responsible for being labelled as useless (based on the gist of the replies).

It’s really time to break down the stigma where you bunker yourself thinking, I’m not going to be an elitist and min/max my build. I’m going to play for fun!

The players of said classes are responsible for the stigma.

Yinello.7068:

You must not have played Necro for a long time if you think that pets are the only thing it uses.

He was talking about Ranger.

Gaaaaaahhhhh! Remove the Engineer? What the Kitten??? Finally a class comes along that is challenging to learn to play and we have to fight for it’s existance? What with the tools and the turrets and the flamethrowers (ah, the glory of a good ol’ mob roast!) and rocket launch guns and rocket boots and net shooters and elixirs … really??? Get rid of them? Wow. My head just exploded. I’m done.

Hello,

Since this thread is not providing any meaningful feedback to the current issues & concerns, nor inviting to constructive and healthy discussion, it is now closed.

Thank you for your understanding.