Guild Wars 2

After all the critique which quite often involves people that have outright claimed that they haven’t played for months or even have the game installed I was thinking about the question in the title.

Would it be possible to only allow active accounts (such as having been logged on the last x days/week) to write on the forums? Everyone would still be able to read of course, but I have a feeling it might create a better environment for everyone here if you actually had to actively play the game in order to join in on the discussions.

As seen with the NPE change there were massive amounts of hatred posted, quite much of it from people that didn’t even try it before (either due to not wanting to start over or due to not actually playing anymore).

Any thoughts about this?

(Oh I know people will hate this thread, if only on principle because I created it, but thought it was worth a shot to see what people thought about it.)

I can hear the protests already: “my time! my money! my investment!”

That’s all beside the point. If you gave up playing, and especially if you uninstalled the game, you made the conscious decision to walk away from what you had invested in the game. I don’t see why your opinion, in that case, should hold equal or greater force than those people who actually are playing. Moreover, when you complain about something in GW and then immediately go on to say how much better some other game is, I smell troll.

I don’t know how feasible the OP’s idea is, but I like it.

Its a good idea n theory, and very easy to do with sub-based games. But what is to stop someone just logging in for a moment to reactivate their forum account? Doing that perhaps invalidates the claim they have given up on the game, but not to much of an extent if they claim to only log in to post. For the most part, those who claim to have quit and still hang around are usually there to just stick the boot in (whether they have actually quit or not). Those who truly quit for the most part give up until the point they think about getting back into the game. Its those people, however small in number that would get the thin end of the wedge with this.

If that can be worked around as well as some way to determine what constitutes inactivity (period of absence etc), it would be a nice idea. Not sure how workable it is, but a nice idea.

How feasible is it?

Lets see… Let me just go download several updates and log in for a sec, maybe say hello to my friends.

There. Activity accomplished!
What were we talking about again?

If there was some kind of /age for these forums we’d see that there were no new players and Anet wouldn’t be able to use that excuse for kittening us in the kitten .

Hmm. How about no. That’s a terrible idea.

lordkrall.7241:

After all the critique which quite often involves people that have outright claimed that they haven’t played for months or even have the game installed I was thinking about the question in the title.

Would it be possible to only allow active accounts (such as having been logged on the last x days/week) to write on the forums? Everyone would still be able to read of course, but I have a feeling it might create a better environment for everyone here if you actually had to actively play the game in order to join in on the discussions.

As seen with the NPE change there were massive amounts of hatred posted, quite much of it from people that didn’t even try it before (either due to not wanting to start over or due to not actually playing anymore).

Any thoughts about this?

(Oh I know people will hate this thread, if only on principle because I created it, but thought it was worth a shot to see what people thought about it.)

Okay so all they have to do is boot up the game again?

There’s literally no reason to restrict the forums in a game that doesn’t have a sub when the only criteria for not being able to post on the forum is how long it’s been since you last played.

Whats more is people who haven’t played in a while can give feedback just as valid as people who play daily.

Some of the people that constantly post here how they quit the game X amount of time ago are lairs. I know because there are a couple of people here that state this all the time and I added them to my friend list out of curiosity. Guess what, they seem to be online an awful lot for having quit and uninstalled.

That’s ridiculous. Plenty of people are unable to log in for a variety of reasons. Computers have issues running the game, people have real life things that take them away from their gaming computers, etc. So that means their opinions on the game are suddenly invalid? They aren’t allowed to come to the forums and voice their opinion?

Not to mention if people stopped posting their criticism on the forums, you’d say something like “I don’t see people complaining so everything is okay!” I don’t get why you’d want negative/criticizing people of the game to be shut out from posting, whatever would you do with your time then?

There is a BIT of merit to limit the number of players who haven’t played in a long time to keep them from trolling… but how many people do you think that really is? Would it be worth the time to add functionality to keep them from posting?

I really don’t think so.

Likely impossible technically but also feasibly. Restricting people based on their playtime bias is unfair and is as unjust as those complaining for the sake of it. People take holidays, natural breaks, work commitments etc. there is no possible way of enforcing this accurately.

And it wont improve the forums in any shape or form. That requires deeper work, whether improved moderation, better forum structure, in game improvements…tick as applicable.

Ignore or report the problematic posts. The internet isnt worth arguing with day in and day out

So…will we only allow people who don’t have anything constructive to say on the forums? The fact that someone uninstalled the game they previously invested into, makes me think that the game isn’t that great and needs improvement.

Guild Wars 2 is a good game, but I can slowly see it sinking. People should have a right to their opinions. It’s your decision if you’re going to agree with it or not.

WE tell everybody that GW2 is an amazing game because when it gets boring, you can just leave it for however long and return at any point in time. Revoking people’s post privileges based on in-game activity seems wrong.

Secondly, there is a lot of people who are not playing the game because something or other changed (and shouldn’t have) or didn’t change (but should) – and many of them have stated that they would love to play again if one day x or y or z happens. Why should they not be able to partake in the discussion? They bought the game, same as everybody else.

Thirdly, when I spent 2 months in hospital, I was unable to play, which only meant that I read/posted in the forums all the more.

Just cause Krall posted this I disagree…. ….
No, actually your stubborn and I like you.
But this should not happen unless it happens with a proper search bar.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

WE tell everybody that GW2 is an amazing game because when it gets boring, you can just leave it for however long and return at any point in time. Revoking people’s post privileges based on in-game activity seems wrong.

Secondly, there is a lot of people who are not playing the game because something or other changed (and shouldn’t have) or didn’t change (but should) – and many of them have stated that they would love to play again if one day x or y or z happens. Why should they not be able to partake in the discussion? They bought the game, same as everybody else.

Thirdly, when I spent 2 months in hospital, I was unable to play, which only meant that I read/posted in the forums all the more.

Well said, Pixelpumpkin. Well said.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

This is something that we had considered in the past, but opted against because it unfairly works against lapsed players who want to ask what’s changed since they last played and players like Pixelpumpkin who may, for personal reasons, be unable to log into the game, but still want to interact with the forums and stay up to date on the game.

It’s also worth pointing out that some people use claims of quitting the game as an attention-getting tactic, when in fact they are still quite active. Putting in this type of restriction would just push those people to claim they only log in to keep their forum privileges active.

the fact you considered it tells me your priorities arent really that great. People who bought the game and still feel the need to voice their concerns even in an annoying way, are probably giving feedback about what people who left the game are looking for. You just look at them as telling you things you dont want to hear. Anyhow doesnt

Mark Katzbach.9084:

This is something that we had considered in the past, but opted against because it unfairly works against lapsed players who want to ask what’s changed since they last played and players like Pixelpumpkin who may, for personal reasons, be unable to log into the game, but still want to interact with the forums and stay up to date on the game.

It’s also worth pointing out that some people use claims of quitting the game as an attention-getting tactic, when in fact they are still quite active. Putting in this type of restriction would just push those people to claim they only log in to keep their forum privileges active.

This is really your attitude towards your customers?

Thanks for being honest, at least.

Swizzle.7982:

If there was some kind of /age for these forums we’d see that there were no new players and Anet wouldn’t be able to use that excuse for kittening us in the kitten .

How about me saying you’re wrong, because it’s a known fact that most new players don’t participate in forums…precisely because of how some people react, and if you’re being sarcastic…that’s not helping anything.

What I’m thinking is you want people who uninstalled to stop posting because it’s usually always negative? Lets ignore people’s criticisms, they suck and have flawed arguments! GW2, Best game evar.

silly suggestion and shame on ANET for considering it at any point. you buy the game, you get to participate in it, whether thats on the forums or on a map.

Bertrand.3057:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

This is something that we had considered in the past, but opted against because it unfairly works against lapsed players who want to ask what’s changed since they last played and players like Pixelpumpkin who may, for personal reasons, be unable to log into the game, but still want to interact with the forums and stay up to date on the game.

It’s also worth pointing out that some people use claims of quitting the game as an attention-getting tactic, when in fact they are still quite active. Putting in this type of restriction would just push those people to claim they only log in to keep their forum privileges active.

This is really your attitude towards your customers?

Thanks for being honest, at least.

I think you have a personal axe to grind, I see no problem with them wanting to allow anyone that has purchased the game and had an active account to continue to post on the forums. Also, as Pixelpumpkin pointed out above, they were unable to log into the game for 2 months due to personal reasons…just what exactly do you see as their attitude towards their customers anyways…other than being accommodating.

Zaklex.6308:

Bertrand.3057:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

This is something that we had considered in the past, but opted against because it unfairly works against lapsed players who want to ask what’s changed since they last played and players like Pixelpumpkin who may, for personal reasons, be unable to log into the game, but still want to interact with the forums and stay up to date on the game.

It’s also worth pointing out that some people use claims of quitting the game as an attention-getting tactic, when in fact they are still quite active. Putting in this type of restriction would just push those people to claim they only log in to keep their forum privileges active.

This is really your attitude towards your customers?

Thanks for being honest, at least.

I think you have a personal axe to grind, I see no problem with them wanting to allow anyone that has purchased the game and had an active account to continue to post on the forums. Also, as Pixelpumpkin pointed out above, they were unable to log into the game for 2 months due to personal reasons…just what exactly do you see as their attitude towards their customers anyways…other than being accommodating.

I don’t know, it sounds kind of cold, don’t you think? Kind of explains few of the latest updates.

So basically you just want to censor a large portion of the critics cause you can’t take a game and company you love being judged for their horrible decisions?

I reported a red post for trolling. Sad day.

I am so hoping that the OP is from somewhere other than the USA.

Why not suggest pay-gating the forums to those who spend so much in gems per month?

Yeah, that’s just about as good an idea.

You do realize the largest brunt of criticism comes from ACTIVE players. The very extremely few that claim to have quit, being blocked, would hardly even be a drop in the complaint bucket.

It’s not a subscription game. The criteria for “active” is technically running the launcher and launching the game…which would serve no purpose. Any stricter criteria would not go well for any party involved.

GOSU.9574:

Why not suggest pay-gating the forums to those who spend so much in gems per month?

Yeah, that’s just about as good an idea.

You do realize the largest brunt of criticism comes from ACTIVE players. The very extremely few that claim to have quit, being blocked, would hardly even be a drop in the complaint bucket.

Gods no… You gave them an idea. cries

Mark Katzbach.9084:

This is something that we had considered in the past, but opted against because it unfairly works against lapsed players who want to ask what’s changed since they last played and players like Pixelpumpkin who may, for personal reasons, be unable to log into the game, but still want to interact with the forums and stay up to date on the game.

It’s also worth pointing out that some people use claims of quitting the game as an attention-getting tactic, when in fact they are still quite active. Putting in this type of restriction would just push those people to claim they only log in to keep their forum privileges active.

I like how one of you anet guys pipes up and comes crawling out of the woodwork. Is there any timescale for a response on the other little thing people are talking about?

People who have left or have gone on extended absences and are telling you why they did so, are precisely the people you should be listening to if you wish to learn how to retain customers.

phys.7689:

the fact you considered it tells me your priorities arent really that great.

How would it be all that terribly different than how sub games restrict forum presence to people still paying an active subscription?

Now you just sound like someone looking for reasons to pick a fight with Arena.net.

Can you not. There are periods of time where I just can’t log in for weeks because of university, it doesn’t mean I don’t love the game or want to be able to contribute to discussions.

Zaklex.6308:

I think you have a personal axe to grind, I see no problem with them wanting to allow anyone that has purchased the game and had an active account to continue to post on the forums. Also, as Pixelpumpkin pointed out above, they were unable to log into the game for 2 months due to personal reasons…just what exactly do you see as their attitude towards their customers anyways…other than being accommodating.

My problem was Mark admitting they considered restricting people who had purchased the game but had not been active from participating on the forums. That and the attitude that there was a real issue with attention-seeking individuals pretending to be inactive and that he deemed it worth his time to be labeling players in this way.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Can you not. There are periods of time where I just can’t log in for weeks because of university, it doesn’t mean I don’t love the game or want to be able to contribute to discussions.

Don’t worry, FlamingFoxx. I believe Mark has already stated that they will not. Enjoy your school time and your periodic breaks into GW2.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

Zaklex.6308:

Bertrand.3057:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

This is something that we had considered in the past, but opted against because it unfairly works against lapsed players who want to ask what’s changed since they last played and players like Pixelpumpkin who may, for personal reasons, be unable to log into the game, but still want to interact with the forums and stay up to date on the game.

It’s also worth pointing out that some people use claims of quitting the game as an attention-getting tactic, when in fact they are still quite active. Putting in this type of restriction would just push those people to claim they only log in to keep their forum privileges active.

This is really your attitude towards your customers?

Thanks for being honest, at least.

I think you have a personal axe to grind, I see no problem with them wanting to allow anyone that has purchased the game and had an active account to continue to post on the forums. Also, as Pixelpumpkin pointed out above, they were unable to log into the game for 2 months due to personal reasons…just what exactly do you see as their attitude towards their customers anyways…other than being accommodating.

We would rather be accommodating towards lapsed players than punish those who have quit the game and decide to post maliciously (not saying that everybody who quits the game does so). No technology can determine one from the other, and it’s not fair to punish the good with the bad.

The reason it was ever under consideration was because subscription-based MMOs typically revoke forum access if you do not have a current (paid) subscription. We investigated how we could achieve the same type of access restriction and, as I said above, determined that it was unfair to lapsed players who may return to the forums for information or answers regarding the current state of the game.

Well said !

chemiclord.3978:

phys.7689:

the fact you considered it tells me your priorities arent really that great.

How would it be all that terribly different than how sub games restrict forum presence to people still paying an active subscription?

Now you just sound like someone looking for reasons to pick a fight with Arena.net.

Well, it’s not a sub game at all. So that’s rather different you must admit.

Bertrand.3057:

Zaklex.6308:

I think you have a personal axe to grind, I see no problem with them wanting to allow anyone that has purchased the game and had an active account to continue to post on the forums. Also, as Pixelpumpkin pointed out above, they were unable to log into the game for 2 months due to personal reasons…just what exactly do you see as their attitude towards their customers anyways…other than being accommodating.

My problem was Mark admitting they considered restricting people who had purchased the game but had not been active from participating on the forums. That and the attitude that there was a real issue with attention-seeking individuals pretending to be inactive and that he deemed it worth his time to be labeling players in this way.

The problem is that Guild Wars 2 is advertised as a game where a player can come and go at will because it is subscription free, and as such the forums are a reflection of that. The reason subscription games can restrict access in their forums goes hand in hand with them also restricting the game to those that haven’t kept up with their subscription payments.

As far as Mark’s attitude towards “attention-seeking individuals claiming to have quit but are still quite active”… My feelings are mixed. I’m positive that is a tactic forum posters have used. It can’t really be denied. However I also believe the way he expressed his distaste did more to discredit far more people than just the ones he has labeled as only “attention-seeking”. Was that intentional?

lordkrall.7241:

After all the critique which quite often involves people that have outright claimed that they haven’t played for months or even have the game installed I was thinking about the question in the title.

Would it be possible to only allow active accounts (such as having been logged on the last x days/week) to write on the forums? Everyone would still be able to read of course, but I have a feeling it might create a better environment for everyone here if you actually had to actively play the game in order to join in on the discussions.

As seen with the NPE change there were massive amounts of hatred posted, quite much of it from people that didn’t even try it before (either due to not wanting to start over or due to not actually playing anymore).

Any thoughts about this?

(Oh I know people will hate this thread, if only on principle because I created it, but thought it was worth a shot to see what people thought about it.)

If I remember right this game is buy to play, all including with my initial purchase.

They can give warnings and bans for abuse, but logging into the game itself has nothing to do with the fact I paid for this game.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

I’m not trying to discredit anybody here. However, as some have mentioned, they have seen players making posts about having quit the game, yet see those same players on their friends list logging in daily. If you’re posting about how long ago you quit the game, yet log in daily, that’s attention-seeking.

The point I’m getting at here is that while there are people who behave in that manner, there are at least as many, if not more, players who legitimately come and go for whatever reasons and should not be punished for that simple fact. I don’t assume somebody is using those tactics just because they say that they quit the game, and anybody (yes anybody) who is leaving constructive and respectful feedback has a right to leave said feedback, regardless of their last login date.

I should also add that the considerations for this feature were over two years ago when we were launching the forums and determining what type of restrictions to put in place.

Thank you for your quick responses here, Mark. It is appreciated by all of us, even by those that may not agree with you. I’m glad to hear I was mistaken in my fears over one of your previous statements.

lordkrall.7241:

After all the critique which quite often involves people that have outright claimed that they haven’t played for months or even have the game installed I was thinking about the question in the title.

Would it be possible to only allow active accounts (such as having been logged on the last x days/week) to write on the forums? Everyone would still be able to read of course, but I have a feeling it might create a better environment for everyone here if you actually had to actively play the game in order to join in on the discussions.

As seen with the NPE change there were massive amounts of hatred posted, quite much of it from people that didn’t even try it before (either due to not wanting to start over or due to not actually playing anymore).

Any thoughts about this?

(Oh I know people will hate this thread, if only on principle because I created it, but thought it was worth a shot to see what people thought about it.)

Or maybe they can effectively moderate their forum using the appropriate channels that are currently set up. If someone is posting on the forum and you don’t want them posting here, there’s a simple solution, ANET: Banhammer ahoy! Using such a broad criteria as “hasn’t logged in since X date” is senseless and unnecessary.

Given they don’t want to swing Ye Olde Krytan Banhammer unless it’s warranted (fraud, hacking, theft…) I think bans are less likely than just letting the system as in place now do the work and not complicate things.

phys.7689:

Mark Katzbach.9084:

This is something that we had considered in the past, but opted against because it unfairly works against lapsed players who want to ask what’s changed since they last played and players like Pixelpumpkin who may, for personal reasons, be unable to log into the game, but still want to interact with the forums and stay up to date on the game.

It’s also worth pointing out that some people use claims of quitting the game as an attention-getting tactic, when in fact they are still quite active. Putting in this type of restriction would just push those people to claim they only log in to keep their forum privileges active.

the fact you considered it tells me your priorities arent really that great. People who bought the game and still feel the need to voice their concerns even in an annoying way, are probably giving feedback about what people who left the game are looking for. You just look at them as telling you things you dont want to hear. Anyhow doesnt

Well I’m okay with the fact they considered it because those worst case players keep a ball of toxicity building, flame and talk down to anyone they don’t agree with them, case and point posted above. Questioning a dev’s priorities on their own forum reeks of gamer privilege. Like literally screw your future gem purchases and your “supporting the game” if you can’t be constructive and not hurl abuse at the dev team and then hound them to produce more content on the same breath. There are literally tons of other things for retired players to do besides hassle people about a game they don’t play anymore. It’s getting pretty nasty on reddit and a couple gaming sites. Lots of abuse towards a certain staff member who may be in charge of gem store decisions along with the regular toxicity that’s been building up over time. Using the ban hammer is okay, but that requires vigilance and active moderation where having preventative measures in does stop some garbage before it starts. But as Mark mentioned, it’s a non-issue now.

That would be punitive towards people like myself. I’ve uninstalled the game once before, and only came back because my beloved wife asked for help with getting dungeon master.

On occasion, I’ve felt warm-hearted enough toward the company that I’ve bought gems. Other times (right now is one of those times) my sole interest in the game is to read the forums to see if there’s any indication that any of the needed changes are being implemented.

So, Krall, am I active, or not? At one point I didn’t even have the game installed for better than six months. At other times I’ve been a daily player. I know precisely what I want out of the game, and whether or not I play depends greatly upon the most current changes and how Anet handles them. Does the fact that the updates, and especially the handling up the updates, disgusts me enough that I won’t play until something is fixed invalidate my opinions?

Let’s face it – all you’re asking for is to have voices that critique the game silenced, and that is in nobody’s best interest.

Here’s a case of being transparent, and getting one’s hand bitten, it seems. /smh

I don’t think that was a cold or even snarky comment. Then again I have a dev friend in another game who has shared a tiny smidge of the bile that the players give to devs on a regular basis. These forums are astoundingly civil and the press is very kind to ANet but I am sure they are subject to enough horrible messaging that they can be utterly certain the behavior described would in fact occur.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Here’s a case of being transparent, and getting one’s hand bitten, it seems. /smh

The clarification helped, I think. The original reply could be read as Mark agreeing with the OP that only active players had valuable input to provide for the developers, which I find very alienating for anyone who has taken a break from the game.

Mark Katzbach.9084:

I’m not trying to discredit anybody here. However, as some have mentioned, they have seen players making posts about having quit the game, yet see those same players on their friends list logging in daily. If you’re posting about how long ago you quit the game, yet log in daily, that’s attention-seeking.

The point I’m getting at here is that while there are people who behave in that manner, there are at least as many, if not more, players who legitimately come and go for whatever reasons and should not be punished for that simple fact. I don’t assume somebody is using those tactics just because they say that they quit the game, and anybody (yes anybody) who is leaving constructive and respectful feedback has a right to leave said feedback, regardless of their last login date.

I should also add that the considerations for this feature were over two years ago when we were launching the forums and determining what type of restrictions to put in place.

+1 for communicating your thought process on this matter. You devs get a lot of flak for every post no matter the contents, but this one is nicely transparent and I want you to know that I and I’m sure many others appreciate that.