Guild Wars 2

lordkrall.7241:

Do we know if those pictures are actually the final version of the system though? It is also an example.

Based on the picture we got a low-level character can complete two out of three needed dailies in PvE alone. Then add to that 8 other possible ones from PvP and WvW.

It is also fully possible that there will actually be more dailies from each category available or dailies based on your character level.

One should also keep in mind that they are achievements. While this game is rather bad at actually making achievements something you achieve, the original idea is that you actually have to do (achieve) a very specific thing to complete an achievement.

The new player might not want to play pvp or wvw like the op suggested as a problem.

Plus if these images aren’t final and they do intend to add more options or different dailies for lower levels than they should better communicate that in their post but since they didn’t, this thread remains very important for dev’s to look at and comment on so we get a better understanding.

I mean what is worse, questioning a non-fully communicated feature to which has a chance to be poorly implemented to then be changed and be better for the game or letting said feature be released hoping to god that it’s good and only to find out it was everything that the post said and wait longer to get things fixed.

Sorry but your post comes of very negative in a way that your fed up with people not trusting Anet and questioning everything they do like they have a track record of disasters.

Anyway this thread is causing more good than harm for now so +1 OP

Excellently written post, Lishtenbird! You are always a voice of reason and logic, I hope you are able to be chosen to be a Forum Specialist and would want to be one.

Since Anet is obviously going forward with this, I hope that they read this, and even observe map chat in game. Realizing that the pic they’d shown was just an example, they either need to make a separate tab for New Players with the old-style generic daily goals for AP or, at least in PVE make the Daily achievable by them by adding additional choices so that a level 1-60 could accomplish 3 of them. I can’t speak about PVP or WVW, but changes should apply there. Since most new players more than likely will not enter those areas unless they are higher level or they are in a guild. Additionally it would behoove Anet to add something in game to explain this to them.

Filaha.1678:

Vayne.8563:

Take the current example. Maguuma Vista is any vista in Maguuma. Including any of the ones in Metrica,

Minor correction.

It says “Maguuma Wastes”. That’s different from Maguuma Jungle.

Wastes is either Dry Top or Silverwastes.

Ah my bad. I read Maguuma and my mind filled in the blanks. I’m relatively sure that lower level character would have different dailies because they have different dailies now.

On a new account my wife bought for storage, she had different dailies from me because she had no high level characters. I had a daily fractal runner one day but she didn’t have that. Nor did she have fractals for the monthly.

So for those of us who have been to the wastes, doing a Vista there literally takes two minutes. Teleport and run over to the vista.

The reward you get will be nothing like the rewards for the old dailies. Theoretically those will be folded into the logging in thing. So you get rewards for logging and and you get double the achievement points for something that, at least in the example offered, should take less time than a daily now and certainly no more.

lordkrall.7241:

I wonder if we will ever have a change that people will wait for being implemented before they rage like mad about it.

Maybe the better system would simply be to not talk about it until it was actually released.

I’m not sure that postponing the complaints by a week really nets ANet much in the way of breathing space. Now, if they’d opted for full disclosure in the blog, rather than just hints, then people would know what to expect. With limited information, people anticipate the worst.

I’m not raging, but I am pessimistic. After all, the trait change execution was much worse than the before-implementation blog led me to believe.

vectorfox.6894:

The new player might not want to play pvp or wvw like the op suggested as a problem.

Plus if these images aren’t final and they do intend to add more options or different dailies for lower levels than they should better communicate that in their post but since they didn’t, this thread remains very important for dev’s to look at and comment on so we get a better understanding.

I mean what is worse, questioning a non-fully communicated feature to which has a chance to be poorly implemented to then be changed and be better for the game or letting said feature be released hoping to god that it’s good and only to find out it was everything that the post said and wait longer to get things fixed.

Sorry but your post comes of very negative in a way that your fed up with people not trusting Anet and questioning everything they do like they have a track record of disasters.

And some players might not want to do anything other than logging in and chatting, should they also get 10 APs per day and all the rewards gotten from specific dailies? Where should we draw the line?

Or people could, you know, wait until something is released before raging like mad?
Should they really give us 20 different pictures to show us that every single type of player will have enough stuff to do every single day?

It is most likely already way too late to change anything anyway. The release is set to go live in a couple of days. They won’t have time to rebuild or change it in any major way. So why not let them release it and then make changes based on actual experience of the system?
If they were to make sure everyone got every single question answered they would have to write a novel for every single change they made, which people would also complain about being too much text.

It might sound negative simply because it is silly that every single time something is announce people rage like mad without having even tried it. Just look at the NPE. Before it was release it was the worst thing ever and yet when people actually started trying it most people felt that it wasn’t so bad after all.

Regarding zone specific achievements, I enjoy the nudge to get me back to an area I haven’t been to for a while. There will be no more “completionist” aspect, because of the cap at 10 points per day. Don’t want to do an activity, don’t do it. As for the rewards for each activity, it’s no different than getting chests in Silverwastes. Should I be able to do generic events any where to get the Silverwaste specific rewards? I don’t think so.

wait wait wait wait…..

i think the new dailies are meant to get level 80 characters to get the back out into the world, instead of just farming up a storm in a certain area, or to help people get a little boost toward something

like the daily fractal will give you a chest with extra fractal awards

“Completing a fractal daily achievement will get you an extra pristine fractal relic, some additional agony resistance , and a tome of knowledge; taking a tower in WvW for an achievement will grant you World vs. World experience and additional badges of honor; or capturing a point in PvP will give you additional reward track progress.”

the dailies are not meant for non-level 80’s…of course that doesn’t mean you cant do them if you feel like going to the zone and doing it…you’re not really missing out on anything if you don’t do it

“But Jordo, ur missing out on 10 AP”

If you really care about 10 AP that badly, you won’t care about going to a zone you don’t want to explore yet for a measly 10 AP

the log in rewards are for the newer players and non-level 80’s and veterans alike

I really like the daily activities as they are now. The reason is that you do it while playing normally doing whatever you wanted to do. The new ones look like a step backwards where you have to go to certain places and do specific things that you would not otherwise choose to do. You recently changed the daily activity choices and I thought that was the best you’ve done and was really happy with them.

The new reward system could be nice, but if the activities remained as they are now- things you do while playing normally.

IndigoSundown.5419:

lordkrall.7241:

I wonder if we will ever have a change that people will wait for being implemented before they rage like mad about it.

Maybe the better system would simply be to not talk about it until it was actually released.

I’m not sure that postponing the complaints by a week really nets ANet much in the way of breathing space. Now, if they’d opted for full disclosure in the blog, rather than just hints, then people would know what to expect. With limited information, people anticipate the worst.

I’m not raging, but I am pessimistic. After all, the trait change execution was much worse than the before-implementation blog led me to believe.

This is a fair point, however…Anet has talked about a whole lot of things in blogs. It’s true the trait system came out bad, but the wardrobe came out good. If you look at all the blogs as far as changes, the traits is probably the worst.

However, there have been, from my point of view, more positive changes than negative ones. So instead of being pessimistic, I’m being cautious. It might seem a fine line to draw, but I’m drawing it anyway.

IndigoSundown.5419:

I’m not sure that postponing the complaints by a week really nets ANet much in the way of breathing space. Now, if they’d opted for full disclosure in the blog, rather than just hints, then people would know what to expect. With limited information, people anticipate the worst.

I’m not raging, but I am pessimistic. After all, the trait change execution was much worse than the before-implementation blog led me to believe.

But that is just the thing: Maybe there won’t be much complaints when people actually see how it works? A great example is the NPE. People raged like mad on the forums, and yet when people actually started testing it out when it was released most people seemed to feel that it was actually a rather good change overall.

A full disclosure would mean basically a novel and then people wouldn’t have bothered reading it anyway and would have complained about them giving us wall of text.

Thank you Listenbird, for writing such a clear, well thought-out, and non-ragey post. I would suggest that you please consider changing the subject to be something less inflammatory sounding. I think that the post will be taken more seriously, and get more views and replies if the subject was changed to more reflect the actual tone of the post itself.
Before, with the less specific dailies you could generally play how and where you want, and get dailies just by playing. Without having to go out of your way or deviate form whatever you had planned. the new, mopre specific dailies will force players down an Anet chosen path.
I’ll agree though, that “Ascalon” and Maguuma" do leave some freedom of choice. "Malchor’s Leap " and “Shatterer” do not. They would also exclude new players.
And if these examples are from beta test(or whatever) and do not reflect the choices that we will actually have in the released dailies, then they were poor examples to use, right?
As I’ve said before, we want more freedom of choice, not less.

Lishtenbird.2814:

snip

Slight problem with the entire post.

You will get what you already got from the old dailies, laurels / coins /karma etc just by logging in. You don’t even NEED to do anything to get them anymore.

The new dailies are slightly more “challenging” because according to the post they will give new rewards…

“Rather than having a generic reward for all achievements, each one will give players something that is thematically tied to the content they’re playing. Completing a fractal daily achievement will get you an extra pristine fractal relic, some additional agony resistance , and a tome of knowledge; taking a tower in WvW for an achievement will grant you World vs. World experience and additional badges of honor; or capturing a point in PvP will give you additional reward track progress. "

Old system:

Do boring generic staff, get coin, laurel, karma (the way you want)

New System:

Do more specific staff, earn extra rewards
Just log-in: get coin, laurel and karma

The new DAILIES will give EXTRA rewards based on the daily you do. I guess you completely missed (or ignored on purpose) that very important part. How exactly is that bad? Do fractal daily, get extra relic. Capture keeps in WvW, get extra badges, kill 5 people in PVP, get extra rank points. In other words you are REWARDED for completing those dailies… that’s why their requirements are more specific.

The way to keep everyone happy I guess is to add 4 new dailies WITHOUT ANY REWARDS for those are too bored to care, and keep the other 4 for those who care about the new rewards.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

Thank you Listenbird, for writing such a clear, well thought-out, and non-ragey post. I would suggest that you please consider changing the subject to be something less inflammatory sounding. I think that the post will be taken more seriously, and get more views and replies if the subject was changed to more reflect the actual tone of the post itself.
Before, with the less specific dailies you could generally play how and where you want, and get dailies just by playing. Without having to go out of your way or deviate form whatever you had planned. the new, mopre specific dailies will force players down an Anet chosen path.
I’ll agree though, that “Ascalon” and Maguuma" do leave some freedom of choice. "Malchor’s Leap " and “Shatterer” do not. They would also exclude new players.
And if these examples are from beta test(or whatever) and do not reflect the choices that we will actually have in the released dailies, then they were poor examples to use, right?
As I’ve said before, we want more freedom of choice, not less.

but you have choice

do the achievement if it aligns with your goals…you don’t HAVE to do 3 of the 4 unless you are really wanting those AP’s

do you want AP’s?
do 3 of the 4 that takes out out to specific parts of the world that you haven’t visited lately

are you working toward something within fractals?
oh look at that, there is a daily fractal that will give you BONUS fractal rewards

are you just farming a world boss train?
oh look, you just got a BONUS rare(hopefully this is the reward, i could be wrong)

also, your talking about new players wanting to do this….think back to when you were a fresh player….what was on your mind then?

i know sure as hell i wasn’t thinking about AP

i was thinking about my personal story, my gear while leveling up, wanting to kill Zhaitan spoilerfor killing Tybalt and wanting to hit 80 asap

“Additionally, we’ve created a separation of easier achievements like “Killing 3 Players in WvW,” and more challenging ones like “Win 1 Match in PvP as a Mesmer” or “Defeat the Shatterer.” Easier achievements are quicker to accomplish, but harder achievements will give players greater rewards.”

is this part not clear enough? Maybe wait until the patch is released before giving a criticism

maddoctor.2738:

Lishtenbird.2814:

snip

Slight problem with the entire post.

You will get what you already got from the old dailies, laurels / coins /karma etc just by logging in. You don’t even NEED to do anything to get them anymore.

The new dailies are slightly more “challenging” because according to the post they will give new rewards…

“Rather than having a generic reward for all achievements, each one will give players something that is thematically tied to the content they’re playing. Completing a fractal daily achievement will get you an extra pristine fractal relic, some additional agony resistance , and a tome of knowledge; taking a tower in WvW for an achievement will grant you World vs. World experience and additional badges of honor; or capturing a point in PvP will give you additional reward track progress. "

Old system:

Do boring generic staff, get coin, laurel, karma (the way you want)

New System:

Do more specific staff, earn extra rewards
Just log-in: get coin, laurel and karma

The new DAILIES will give EXTRA rewards based on the daily you do. I guess you completely missed (or ignored on purpose) that very important part. How exactly is that bad? Do fractal daily, get extra relic. Capture keeps in WvW, get extra badges, kill 5 people in PVP, get extra rank points. In other words you are REWARDED for completing those dailies… that’s why their requirements are more specific.

The way to keep everyone happy I guess is to add 4 new dailies WITHOUT ANY REWARDS for those are too bored to care, and keep the other 4 for those who care about the new rewards.

+1 this guy is saying what i want to say, just better

Of all the things i’ve had issue with about the game, this one actually feels like an improvement. Before i get all riled up, i’d rather see the change in action first.

It’d be nice though if folks concerns were addressed, clearly.

lordkrall.7241:

And some players might not want to do anything other than logging in and chatting, should they also get 10 APs per day and all the rewards gotten from specific dailies? Where should we draw the line?

Or people could, you know, wait until something is released before raging like mad?
Should they really give us 20 different pictures to show us that every single type of player will have enough stuff to do every single day?

It is most likely already way too late to change anything anyway. The release is set to go live in a couple of days. They won’t have time to rebuild or change it in any major way. So why not let them release it and then make changes based on actual experience of the system?
If they were to make sure everyone got every single question answered they would have to write a novel for every single change they made, which people would also complain about being too much text.

It might sound negative simply because it is silly that every single time something is announce people rage like mad without having even tried it. Just look at the NPE. Before it was release it was the worst thing ever and yet when people actually started trying it most people felt that it wasn’t so bad after all.

I think the only group that wants too log in and chat are roleplayers i mean everyone else i remember who mostly just chatted in game only did it since they already had a legendary and had done all the content which to my understanding means that player base could’ve been satisfied by more playable content.

Well i guess it would be kind of nice they wrote a wall of text for people more interested i mean i look at other games and for example league of legends, for each champion and each change they write a paragraph dedicated to explaining why they went with the change, so asking for a much more in depth introduction to the new feature should come as a given when it seems like the gw2 players write ideas more in depth and longer than those blog posts.

I have noticed a lot of rage with.. well any updates including this one but this thread for example is so right in many ways and has no rage at all. It’s most likely true that they can’t change anything before the update but telling them now gives them plenty of time to think over how the changes could be better implemented.

In regards to the NPE i believe the purchasing traits is still a silly idea and since the changes i haven’t made a new character although i’m playing pvp right now and have 30+ tomes on top of my scroll to go towards an instant lvl 80.

maddoctor.2738:

Lishtenbird.2814:

snip

Slight problem with the entire post.

You will get what you already got from the old dailies, laurels / coins /karma etc just by logging in. You don’t even NEED to do anything to get them anymore.

The new dailies are slightly more “challenging” because according to the post they will give new rewards…

“Rather than having a generic reward for all achievements, each one will give players something that is thematically tied to the content they’re playing. Completing a fractal daily achievement will get you an extra pristine fractal relic, some additional agony resistance , and a tome of knowledge; taking a tower in WvW for an achievement will grant you World vs. World experience and additional badges of honor; or capturing a point in PvP will give you additional reward track progress. "

Old system:

Do boring generic staff, get coin, laurel, karma (the way you want)

New System:

Do more specific staff, earn extra rewards
Just log-in: get coin, laurel and karma

The new DAILIES will give EXTRA rewards based on the daily you do. I guess you completely missed (or ignored on purpose) that very important part. How exactly is that bad? Do fractal daily, get extra relic. Capture keeps in WvW, get extra badges, kill 5 people in PVP, get extra rank points. In other words you are REWARDED for completing those dailies… that’s why their requirements are more specific.

The way to keep everyone happy I guess is to add 4 new dailies WITHOUT ANY REWARDS for those are too bored to care, and keep the other 4 for those who care about the new rewards.

I didn’t quite uderstand before, but if this is true that we still getting laurels and extra loot, then this update will be awesome. This might actually be one of their best updates.

Sube Dai.8496:

Why is one of the rewards a Bag of Ascended Crafting Materials!? Cause we need more ways to get that stuff!!! /sarcasm

Seriously if you want to give us a “Bag of Ascended Crafting Materials” then fill it with Silk…copious amounts of silk…

I’d prefer copious amounts of linen. Linen is a pain to get. Silk is fairly easy to get if you kill stuff as a lvl 80.

vectorfox.6894:

Well i guess it would be kind of nice they wrote a wall of text for people more interested i mean i look at other games and for example league of legends, for each champion and each change they write a paragraph dedicated to explaining why they went with the change, so asking for a much more in depth introduction to the new feature should come as a given when it seems like the gw2 players write ideas more in depth and longer than those blog posts.

the blog post was 7-10 paragraphs of why they were changing to it

what more do you want?

I’m more concerned as to the reason for the log in incentives, is activity dwindling that much?

The changes sound good to me, and I am looking forward to them.

Yet another “attempt to speak for everyone” post.

maddoctor.2738:

You will get what you already got from the old dailies, laurels / coins /karma etc just by logging in. You don’t even NEED to do anything to get them anymore.

Until this is communicated better, I will be cautious – because past experience with ANet tells me I should. Phrases like “an additional sum of laurels” are triggering flags for me: additional to what, dailies? How much? Can I get Chauncey now, should I wait because I won’t have enough for more ascended? Etc., etc.

And regardless, AP are needed for other stuff – like AP skins and AP chest rewards. Now we won’t be able to get them by loyally playing the game – we need to grind specific stuff.

Sizer.5632:

You say it will be a bad thing for “veteran” players and good for new ones, but it is the exact opposite. If youre a vet and you dont have map complete by now youre a pvp/wvw player and can do those dailies instead. Where if a new player has to go to an orr zone to do them they will be screwed.

It’s not that simple for me:

• New players now know where to go and what to do instead of running around Tyria like headless chicken. They got more daily goals, more motivation to explore stuff – and get extra rewards. You achieve something you haven’t done before.
• Veteran players have done this same stuff a thousand times already. Waypointing again, vistas again, laggy slow world boss zergs again, pressing F on nodes again, doing the same events again – but now in specific places. It’s pure grind at this point, there’s nothing about achieving things. It’s a chore.

lordkrall.7241:

One should also keep in mind that they are achievements. While this game is rather bad at actually making achievements something you achieve, the original idea is that you actually have to do (achieve) a very specific thing to complete an achievement.

Indeed. However… new Living Story achievements are achievements you are talking about, while “press F in this zone” and “tag this world boss at this time of day” are not. “Complete CoF p1 in under 10 minutes” sounds like an achievement, too.

I’m fine with achieving things. I like (soloable) stuff like Liadri every now and then. I don’t like boring and grindy stuff which feels like a chore. Currently my usual evening is about organised Tequatl guild spawn, level 49 fractal run, a couple of more or less speedcleared dungeons, and a bit of Flavour Of The Month map. As a chore, there’s also daily time-gated crafting on 3 characters (I ignore the daily Charged Quartz and home nodes though, too annoying). I’ve been to Taidha once recently while waiting for a guildy who wanted to finish it – and that was awfully boring for me.

dkspins.4670:

I hope you are able to be chosen to be a Forum Specialist and would want to be one.

Nope. Russia, got infractions, not really interested in extra official power which gonna generate more hate towards these people anyway.

rapthorne.7345:

I’m more concerned as to the reason for the log in incentives, is activity dwindling that much?

Do you really think that people that doesn’t play actively will suddenly start logging in because they get a small reward (that they won’t really have any use for because they are not playing in the first place) is added?

Also, something to note, which i haven’t seen mentioned yet. Cumulative gold find now, that’s a nice add too

I’d like a whole lot of specific dailies than a few vague ones. I didn’t like just getting my dailies while doing my routine.

Shen Slayer.3058:

maddoctor.2738:

Lishtenbird.2814:

snip

Slight problem with the entire post.

You will get what you already got from the old dailies, laurels / coins /karma etc just by logging in. You don’t even NEED to do anything to get them anymore.

The new dailies are slightly more “challenging” because according to the post they will give new rewards…

“Rather than having a generic reward for all achievements, each one will give players something that is thematically tied to the content they’re playing. Completing a fractal daily achievement will get you an extra pristine fractal relic, some additional agony resistance , and a tome of knowledge; taking a tower in WvW for an achievement will grant you World vs. World experience and additional badges of honor; or capturing a point in PvP will give you additional reward track progress. "

Old system:

Do boring generic staff, get coin, laurel, karma (the way you want)

New System:

Do more specific staff, earn extra rewards
Just log-in: get coin, laurel and karma

The new DAILIES will give EXTRA rewards based on the daily you do. I guess you completely missed (or ignored on purpose) that very important part. How exactly is that bad? Do fractal daily, get extra relic. Capture keeps in WvW, get extra badges, kill 5 people in PVP, get extra rank points. In other words you are REWARDED for completing those dailies… that’s why their requirements are more specific.

The way to keep everyone happy I guess is to add 4 new dailies WITHOUT ANY REWARDS for those are too bored to care, and keep the other 4 for those who care about the new rewards.

I didn’t quite uderstand before, but if this is true that we still getting laurels and extra loot, then this update will be awesome. This might actually be one of their best updates.

We will get all the rewards of the current dailies simply by logging in. That’s pretty clear.

The Daily Achievements will have EXTRA rewards that are based on the actual achievement, like extra fractal relics if you do daily fractal or extra rank points for killing players in pvp. The new dailies are “harder” because they offer more rewards.

We don’t LOSE anything compared to the old system, we only get MORE rewards, what’s there NOT to like here? That’s pretty obvious if you actually read the blog post something the OP didn’t do

The only difference between the two systems is how to get Achievement Points. With the old system you had to do 10 different dailies (including 2 out of 4 PVP and WvW daily) to get those 10 points. Now you will have to do -gasp- some slightly more specific achievements.

Keep in mind that today (11/12/2014) we have a very very easy daily, sometimes it is harder but let’s do a comparison, with the old system today I’ll have to do:

Condition Applier
Leveler
Daily Kills
Daily Events
Daily Kill Variety
Daily Gatherer
Recycler
Reviver

and 2 of the following:
WvW Invasion Defender
WvW World Ranker
PvP Matches Played
PvP Daily Captures

So I’m FORCED to do WvW and/or PvP to get those 10 daily points… Even if the rest of the achievements are easy today, I’ll have to do PvP to get the 10 daily points. The new system will give a maximum of 10 points, that’s why I count only 10, if you want with the current system to get the daily maximum (12) I’ll have to do all of the above!

Now with the new system (according to the screenshot they gave us) I will have to do 3 out of the following:

Ascalon Forager
Maguuma Wastes Vista Viewer
Malchor’s Leap Event
Daily Fire Elemental

So as someone who is hunting APs… compare the two lists and decide which one takes more time and which one is easier / faster.

I’ll take the second list thank you very much.

And how exactly is the new system bad for veterans?

Lishtenbird.2814:

maddoctor.2738:

You will get what you already got from the old dailies, laurels / coins /karma etc just by logging in. You don’t even NEED to do anything to get them anymore.

Until this is communicated better, I will be cautious – because past experience with ANet tells me I should. Phrases like “an additional sum of laurels” are triggering flags for me: additional to what, dailies? How much? Can I get Chauncey now, should I wait because I won’t have enough for more ascended? Etc., etc.

And regardless, AP are needed for other stuff – like AP skins and AP chest rewards. Now we won’t be able to get them by loyally playing the game – we need to grind specific stuff.

Quoting myself:

Keep in mind that today (11/12/2014) we have a very very easy daily, sometimes it is harder but let’s do a comparison, with the old system today I’ll have to do:
Condition Applier
Leveler
Daily Kills
Daily Events
Daily Kill Variety
Daily Gatherer
Recycler
Reviver
and 2 of the following:
WvW Invasion Defender
WvW World Ranker
PvP Matches Played
PvP Daily Captures
So I’m FORCED to do WvW and/or PvP to get those 10 daily points… Even if the rest of the achievements are easy today, I’ll have to do PvP to get the 10 daily points. The new system will give a maximum of 10 points, that’s why I count only 10, if you want with the current system to get the daily maximum (12) I’ll have to do all of the above!
Now with the new system (according to the screenshot they gave us) I will have to do 3 out of the following:
Ascalon Forager
Maguuma Wastes Vista Viewer
Malchor’s Leap Event
Daily Fire Elemental
So as someone who is hunting APs… compare the two lists and decide which one takes more time and which one is easier / faster.
I’ll take the second list thank you very much.
And how exactly is the new system bad for veterans?

How exactly are you losing APs with the new system? 3 slightly more complex dailies over the FORCED WvW/PvP ones for the same amount of AP (10)????

lordkrall.7241:

rapthorne.7345:

I’m more concerned as to the reason for the log in incentives, is activity dwindling that much?

Do you really think that people that doesn’t play actively will suddenly start logging in because they get a small reward (that they won’t really have any use for because they are not playing in the first place) is added?

This is pretty much on target as far as i see it. If folks didn’t like the game before, this incentive to log in is rather pointless to them. This really does affect people like me more, one that just log in for the story and maybe mess around a bit for a day or two. I’m now more inclined to login to get the goodies and maybe even do the dailies now, since, you know, i don’t hate the game.

This seems like a very positive change that will add variety and be a little fun. For the pure loot players, it should, as maddoctor says above, make it easier/faster to get the full 10 AP a day.

It’s a little early for the complaint brigade to hit the forums.

This post will reference to this blog post often:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-daily-achievement-system/

CURRENT DAILY SYSTEM

Do 5/12 non specific dailies to get a daily chest consisting of a mystic coin, karma, luck, laurel, gold, and exp and 5 AP. 12 AP if you do all 12 daily achievements.

NEW LOGIN SYSTEM

Log in to receive an “old daily” reward

In the 2nd picture of the blog post, you can see day 1 is a mystic coin bag, day 2 is a laurel bag, day 3 is a luck bag, day 4 is a karma bag, day 5 is a new reward bag(looks to be crafting, booster related), day 6 is an experience bag, day 7 is a laurel bag that looks to be special

Again, you are getting the OLD daily rewards simply for logging in, that’s it

If you miss a day, FEAR NOT young adventurer, your progress toward the day 28 special bag will not be reset. The elder dragons know you need to take some days off for IRL stuffz.

NEW DAILY SYSTEM

3 Categories, 4 Dailies each = 12 dailies

Do a specific content driven daily to receive a bonus chest that correlates to what you are doing, if you’re not doing anything goal driven, go visit places you haven’t lately and reap the rewards!

Fractal PvE Daily will give you bonus chest containing fractal items
WvW Capture Point daily will give you a bonus chest containing WvW exp and badges

If you do ANY 3 of the 12 achievements, you get 10 AP on top of your 3 bonus chests for those specific achievements.

If you do beyond 3, you still get the bonus rewards, but you do not get more AP.

DAY 28
Upon logging in on log in day 28, you will receive a special chest, that will give you:

a 1% increase in gold find

and your choice of 4 options:

ascended crafting materials
legendary crafting materials
“plentiful” laurels
tomes of knowledge

after day 28, it all starts over again

maddoctor.2738:

How exactly are you losing APs with the new system? 3 slightly more complex dailies over the FORCED WvW/PvP ones for the same amount of AP (10)????

Here’s my concern as a non-AP hunter who still wants natural AP progression for playing the game.

• Currently, I can get about 5-6 dailies just by playing the game naturally – which is what an average playing player would get, I assume. That would mean around 55 AP in 10 days.
• With the new system, while playing the game naturally I will hit the 3 dailies around 1 or 2 times in 10 days – which is 10-20 AP in 10 days.

Yes, I understand that it’s easier to get more AP.

But the problem is that to get any amount of AP at all, I have to go out of my way. It’s all or nothing, and my daily guild Teq, guild Fractals and dungeons and some new LS map will most of the time mean 0 AP.

But where should they draw the line?
Some people just want to login and chat or RP, should they also get the APs? I mean they would have to go out of their way to complete the dailies as well (and have been forced to do that since they added dailies).

Lishtenbird.2814:

maddoctor.2738:

How exactly are you losing APs with the new system? 3 slightly more complex dailies over the FORCED WvW/PvP ones for the same amount of AP (10)????

Here’s my concern.

• Currently, I can get about 5-6 dailies just by playing the game naturally – which is what an average playing player would get, I assume. That would mean around 55 AP in 10 days.
• With the new system, while playing the game naturally I will hit the 3 dailies around 1 or 2 times in 10 days – which is 10-20 AP in 10 days.

Yes, I understand that it’s easier to get more AP.

But the problem is that to get any amount of AP at all, I have to go out of my way. It’s all or nothing, and my daily guild Teq, guild Fractals and dungeons and some new LS map will most of the time mean 0 AP.

I have to go out of my way to get my legendary crafting materials, and precursor….

Anet…just let me kill 1000 monsters anywhere in the game world to let me get my legendary please!

If you want AP, do what it requires to get it, just like you would have to if you wanted to craft a legendary.

If you want the old daily rewards, just log in.

Lishtenbird.2814:

maddoctor.2738:

How exactly are you losing APs with the new system? 3 slightly more complex dailies over the FORCED WvW/PvP ones for the same amount of AP (10)????

Here’s my concern as a non-AP hunter who still wants natural AP progression for playing the game.

• Currently, I can get about 5-6 dailies just by playing the game naturally – which is what an average playing player would get, I assume. That would mean around 55 AP in 10 days.
• With the new system, while playing the game naturally I will hit the 3 dailies around 1 or 2 times in 10 days – which is 10-20 AP in 10 days.

Yes, I understand that it’s easier to get more AP.

But the problem is that to get any amount of AP at all, I have to go out of my way. It’s all or nothing, and my daily guild Teq, guild Fractals and dungeons and some new LS map will most of the time mean 0 AP.

It wont be nothing because you will be getting something for just logging on.

It’s understandable that anything above that should require (just a TEENY bit) more thought and effort.

perilisk.1874:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

There are no ‘rewards’ from the new Dailies, only Achievement Points for the first three, as I understand it.

No, there is an actual reward attached to each daily, which seems to be specific to the daily.

“Rather than having a generic reward for all achievements, each one will give players something that is thematically tied to the content they’re playing. Completing a fractal daily achievement will get you an extra pristine fractal relic, some additional agony resistance , and a tome of knowledge; taking a tower in WvW for an achievement will grant you World vs. World experience and additional badges of honor; or capturing a point in PvP will give you additional reward track progress.”

You may be correct. I suppose that makes more sense to most. It would certainly be easier than deciding which rewards you wanted to forego.

Jordo.5913:

I have to go out of my way to get my legendary crafting materials, and precursor….

Anet…just let me kill 1000 monsters anywhere in the game world to let me get my legendary please!

If you want AP, do what it requires to get it, just like you would have to if you wanted to craft a legendary.

If you want the old daily rewards, just log in.

Talk about exaggerating.

I am doing the things currently required to get AP. Not all of them, but slow and steady. I am simply opposed to increase in requirement, which is equal to an AP nerf.

What you’re saying, though, is like ANet saying “now you need 2 gifts of exploration for a legendary and 777 clovers, but hey, we’ll give you 1 extra copper for each map and 1 clover every time you do a ‘kill X in Y at NN:NN’ daily!”

Lishtenbird.2814:

Jordo.5913:

I have to go out of my way to get my legendary crafting materials, and precursor….

Anet…just let me kill 1000 monsters anywhere in the game world to let me get my legendary please!

If you want AP, do what it requires to get it, just like you would have to if you wanted to craft a legendary.

If you want the old daily rewards, just log in.

Talk about exaggerating.

I am doing the things currently required to get AP. Not all of them, but slow and steady. I am simply opposed to increase in requirement, which is equal to an AP nerf.

What you’re saying, though, is like ANet saying “now you need 2 gifts of exploration for a legendary and 777 clovers, but hey, we’ll give you 1 extra copper for each map and 1 clover every time you do a ‘kill X in Y at NN:NN’ daily!”

AP nerf?

You have to do 3 of 12 EASY achievements just in a specific zone for 10 AP instead of doing ALL 10 for 10 AP.

Forage 20 times in ANY ascalon zone
Visit ONE vista in maguuma wastes
Do 5 events in Malchor’s Leap
Kill ONE Fire Elemental

or any of the other 8 from sPvP and WvW

it’s the same kitten daily, just in a specific zone

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I do agree that a solution would be to have a mix of the generic and specific options under pve. This should appease most people (because you’re never going to please them all). Maybe not 3 generic (easy) ones necessarily (because then you’ll get the complaints that its “too easy” for some people to get the max AP for dailies). However they could mix it up, maybe 3 and 3 one day. 2 and 4 the next, etc.

I have thought about it already, and, in my opinion, the best solution would be to introduce a fourth, “generic” achievement tab, with achievements that can be completed regardless of the game mode you play in (PvE, WvW or sPvP). Those would replace the current universal ones like Killer, Dodger, salvager, reviver, Condition applier/remover, leveler and skill points. Of course, if they end up being easier to accomplish than others, they can have lower individual rewards – their main reason for existence would be allowing anyone to try to get daily meta within their gameplay style.

lordkrall.7241:

Do we know if those pictures are actually the final version of the system though? It is also an example.

Which is why we should offer our feedback now, and not only after it gets introduced.

Lishtenbird.2814:

maddoctor.2738:

How exactly are you losing APs with the new system? 3 slightly more complex dailies over the FORCED WvW/PvP ones for the same amount of AP (10)????

Here’s my concern as a non-AP hunter who still wants natural AP progression for playing the game.

• Currently, I can get about 5-6 dailies just by playing the game naturally – which is what an average playing player would get, I assume. That would mean around 55 AP in 10 days.
• With the new system, while playing the game naturally I will hit the 3 dailies around 1 or 2 times in 10 days – which is 10-20 AP in 10 days.

Yes, I understand that it’s easier to get more AP.

But the problem is that to get any amount of AP at all, I have to go out of my way. It’s all or nothing, and my daily guild Teq, guild Fractals and dungeons and some new LS map will most of the time mean 0 AP.

Keep in mind that you will also get new items for doing those Achievements, for example getting an extra pristine relic by finishing a daily fractal run isn’t something little, in fact it’s a huge boost. Now we don’t know how many badges you will get for the WvW daily or how many rank points for the pvp daily etc but if that pristine fractal relic is any indication, the rewards should be good enough.

As for your actual problem (APs). Keep in mind that this “all or nothing” approach means one day you will get 10, the other 0, next one 10 etc, while with the old system, without trying you would get anywhere between 1 and 12. The key here is how many APs you will get over a much longer period of time. Don’t look at it “daily”….

Jordo.5913:

AP nerf?

You have to do 3 of 12 EASY achievements just in a specific zone for 10 AP instead of doing ALL 10 for 10 AP.

For an AP hunter? Yes, it’s a nerf. Dedicated hunters (those that did everything) could get 12 AP daily and additional 100 AP monthly. Now they will get only 10 AP daily – which is about 160 AP loss per month.
Of course, for a lot of people it will end up being about the same or slightly higher. But then, i’m also sure that the number of people completing the daily meta will actually decrease with that change and how specific and restrictive they will be.

Jordo.5913:

Astralporing.1957:

Jordo.5913:

AP nerf?

You have to do 3 of 12 EASY achievements just in a specific zone for 10 AP instead of doing ALL 10 for 10 AP.

For an AP hunter? Yes, it’s a nerf. Dedicated hunters (those that did everything) could get 12 AP daily and additional 100 AP monthly. Now they will get only 10 AP daily – which is about 160 AP loss per month.
Of course, for a lot of people it will end up being about the same or slightly higher. But then, i’m also sure that the number of people completing the daily meta will actually decrease with that change and how specific and restrictive they will be.

after december they are merging the daily and monthly AP pools, so no net loss in AP

Oh, i don’t know. Personally for me, it will be a slight AP loss – and i am not even close to doing everything, asas i tend to avoid sPvP, and do WvW only ocasionally. I haven’t hit the dailies AP cap yet, either.

lordkrall.7241:

But that is just the thing: Maybe there won’t be much complaints when people actually see how it works?

I remember people making an argument like this before. As well as the one about waiting to see how it’s implemented before complaining. It was in the thread about new commander tag system. Fortunately, we didn’t listen and did complain, pointing out the problems we saw with the announced implementation, and as a result it got changed for the better.
So, no, if i see a problem, i am going to speak up. Especially if that problematic something is not implemented yet, as my experience tells me, that doing it later decreases chances of it ever being fixed.

lordkrall.7241:

rapthorne.7345:

I’m more concerned as to the reason for the log in incentives, is activity dwindling that much?

Do you really think that people that doesn’t play actively will suddenly start logging in because they get a small reward (that they won’t really have any use for because they are not playing in the first place) is added?

…why do you think it’s being implemented? I seriously doubt Anet meant it to have no impact whatsoever.

fixing the forum page bug

maddoctor.2738:

As for your actual problem (APs). Keep in mind that this “all or nothing” approach means one day you will get 10, the other 0, next one 10 etc, while with the old system, without trying you would get anywhere between 1 and 12. The key here is how many APs you will get over a much longer period of time. Don’t look at it “daily”….

As I said, I will be receiving ~15 AP (or less) instead of ~55 AP per ~10 days unless I go out of my way and do them. Most likely I will do them after the update, at least as long as I have sub-80 characters, but at what cost? Daily craft on 3 chars, daily home instance harvest and quartz charge – these already feel like a chore; will I be happy with spending at least extra 10-30 minutes (depending on the list) of forced content for dailies now instead of things I enjoy? Don’t think so. And that’s why the update feels discouraging, despite all the offered extra loot.

Too funny. They’ll end up ignoring this entire thread and pushing the changes out anyhow. You know this right? lol

Excellent analysis and summation of the problem. Anet doesn’t seem to realize that this game is already too grindy and we really don’t need any more busy work; we need fun and meaningful content to make the game worth playing!

well you’re only missing out on AP…and they virtually do nothing but give account bound rewards that you can’t get otherwise, so if you miss a few it’s just going to take you a little bit longer

I guess I would have liked to been able to farm lightbringer points in Prophecies instead of Nightfall for the Hall of Monuments.

God forbid I have to go out of my way to get something I want.

Lishtenbird.2814:

maddoctor.2738:

As for your actual problem (APs). Keep in mind that this “all or nothing” approach means one day you will get 10, the other 0, next one 10 etc, while with the old system, without trying you would get anywhere between 1 and 12. The key here is how many APs you will get over a much longer period of time. Don’t look at it “daily”….

As I said, I will be receiving ~15 AP (or less) instead of ~55 AP per ~10 days unless I go out of my way and do them. Most likely I will do them after the update, at least as long as I have sub-80 characters, but at what cost? Daily craft on 3 chars, daily home instance harvest and quartz charge – these already feel like a chore; will I be happy with spending at least extra 10-30 minutes (depending on the list) of forced content for dailies now instead of things I enjoy? Don’t think so. And that’s why the update feels discouraging, despite all the offered extra loot.

The “play how you want” part of the new daily is covered with the rewards on login. The other achievements are there to make daily playing more rewarding (with extra rewards based on what you actually do)

Those who are doing all the APs already (or try to) will see a huge boost with the new system and everyone else will see a boost to everything else reward-wise. The only people who will be -slightly- penalized by the new system (AP wise only, not with other rewards) are those who do only 5 daily achievements per day with the current system.

I guess the best option would be to add a 4 AP reward on each of the new dailies with a max of 12 each day (3 dailies * 4 AP each = 12). So the new daily max is the same as the old one and players who do only part of the achievements get their AP.

Cuchullain.3104:

Excellent analysis and summation of the problem. Anet doesn’t seem to realize that this game is already too grindy and we really don’t need any more busy work; we need fun and meaningful content to make the game worth playing!

lol it’s not more busy work….it’s the same exact kitten dailies, it just has to be in A CERTAIN ZONE and you have to do LESS OF THEM and it’s no even for the same kitten REWARDS…it’s for AP and some special rewards for going out of your way to the certain zone

you kitteners are just trolling now