Guild Wars 2

So well, I was doing a few duels against a warrior (yeah 1vs1, no ganking) in WvW and he totally wipe me out. No matter what I tried I ended running out of my defenses while he was bursting me over an over.
But the last fight… The picture speaks for itself.

I wish coefficient skills were more consistent among all professions, and decided with damage modifiers and might stacking potential in mind…

its funny because im a warrior, and i feel the opposite. the problem with me is i cant land my skills.

the point is, we should master our toons and know the enemies’ mechanics.

glhf

Damage is way too high across the board, fights are over way too quickly.

It’s boring. Anet know about it. Don’t expect a fix.

2,277 armor is not part of the problem at all…

Glass eats Glass

I haven’t won a 1v1 vs a chronomancer in weeks as a warrior. I usually end up quickly swapping to sword warhorn and leaping into the nearest lake because at least in underwater combat I may have a fighting chance.

In spvp I usually equip the sword warhorn as well and try to play similarly to a thief by just running to capture points and avoiding combat. If a chrono walks over to my home point I openly step off and run for the hills to hopefully capture a different point, or assist in a fight without the chronomancer present.

So, I don’t know what to say really. As for other classes I welcome any 1v1 and its not because I win all of them, but because I have a good chance to outplay. As long as you know you can’t facetank warriors skills you’re fine. You have so many blocks, blinks and even invulnerabilities that killing the warrior should be like shooting fish in a barrel.

The issue can easily be solved using a build with more survivability. You have no toughness nor health, and both of you are glass cannons, basically the one with the fastest burst and actually landing their skills win.
With a tougher build and constant damage, the fight might take a bit more but after surviving the initial burst they are vulnerable.
Or you could also time your evasion and survivability skills correctly, most of the time, it’s just a matter of timing and good kiting when playing with a glass cannon.

Classes’ damage has been increasing over the years, with the so-called balance and “shake up meta” approach. This is noticeable when you tried doing old contents, things that used to take so long to kill, now you kill them blazing fast. Anet has been using design methods that is not sustainable, gw2 is getting killed by its own power creep design.

Its kinda hard to comment without knowing what build you or the warrior are running but looking at your stats it looks like you are running some kinda of glassy power build.

This kind of power shatter glass build is quite hard to play, generally you blow your burst and if the other guy is still standing you gtfo . This type of build is really not ideal especially for 1v1 . There are other chrono builds you could have used which most likely would have destroyed anything the war was to run. Really its down to you using the wrong tool(build) for the job.

Also player skill comes into it if you are gonna run glass need to know what you are doing other ways you will get blown up as happened.

Ironically, I have zero issues with warriors . . . ever. But mesmers make me nervous. They’re my #2 bane. Really, it depends on the player, their skills, and their trait and gear choices.

Some mesmers I walk all over and others make me pull out all the stops.

You might’ve faced the warrior who knew what he was doing and made the right choices when dealing with mesmers.

It’s like that sometimes . . . there’s always someone better.

Though I feel your pain with Warriors and there’s certainly still much free space on the balancing board, this looks rather like a rock-scissor-paper issue with some added l2p spice.
I play a full glass ranger in WvW. So while he truly shines in larger battles and small scale fights, if comes to 1v1, 1v2, 2v1, 2v2 battles, it usually becomes a 50:50 situation. Or more like a 10:90 situation if a warrior is involved, since they have all the tools to survive my burst and counter it with their own cc and burst. And even if I manage to get the upper hand, they got all the great escape tools to get away. Anoying? Totally. Unfair? Well, ask the next best mesmer/thief that got rekt by “Sick ’em!” + rapid fire.

tl;dr: try to improve your gameplay and accept the fact that some classes+builds shine on different occasions.

I love threads like theses. There is always someone better than you out there. I play warrior, and sometimes I’m the better players, sometimes it’s the other guy. You can’t win every fight OP. Get use to it.

Guys stop it.

It is not about how much damage I take with a glassy build.
It is not about how good or bad we both are.
It is not about a l2p issue.
It is not about which builds we play or should play.

It is about both running very offensive builds and him doing 4x times more damage in less hits than me, both using highest damage skills available for each class.
It is about he can kill me with 3 hits and I need to land 12-15 hits to do the same.
It is about the burst disparity between professions is at 300-400%

Ansau.7326:

Guys stop it.

It is not about how much damage I take with a glassy build.
It is not about how good or bad we both are.
It is not about a l2p issue.
It is not about which builds we play or should play.

It is about both running very offensive builds and him doing 4x times more damage in less hits than me, both using highest damage skills available for each class.
It is about he can kill me with 3 hits and I need to land 12-15 hits to do the same.
It is about the burst disparity between professions is at 300-400%

mesmer probably has the highest burst or at least one of the highest bursts ingame. Burst not sustained dmg ofc. But you have to setup your spikes accordingly.
So it IS a l2p issue

I have seen Mind Wrack hitting for more than 5k per clone too. Mesmer has still high burst. As long we don’t know about the involved builds and circumstances, your screenshot tells not much.

Edit: Found a screenshot of Mind Wrack hitting for 2x 6k in PvP. So in WvW there is even more dmg possible. Requires optimal circumstances though, so not very likely to happen.

Raithwall.8201:

Ansau.7326:

Guys stop it.

It is not about how much damage I take with a glassy build.
It is not about how good or bad we both are.
It is not about a l2p issue.
It is not about which builds we play or should play.

It is about both running very offensive builds and him doing 4x times more damage in less hits than me, both using highest damage skills available for each class.
It is about he can kill me with 3 hits and I need to land 12-15 hits to do the same.
It is about the burst disparity between professions is at 300-400%

mesmer probably has the highest burst or at least one of the highest bursts ingame. Burst not sustained dmg ofc. But you have to setup your spikes accordingly.
So it IS a l2p issue

It clearly is not.

1v1 in this game is pretty much build war. Even if there is skill difference, build’s advantage can easily carry worse player to a win.

In OP’s case, it is very clear his build just can’t match the warrior’s. Namely power shatter vs GS a/s warrior.

As for OP, I can say your stats are definitely not optimal

If you playing full power shatter, go full berserker with rune of pack/strength/scholar.
Your damage stats are way too low to hurt the warrior.

But even after optimizing, don’t expect to beat the warrior consistently. But you should at least have a slight chance of winning if you outplay him.

As the two above me. Mesmer involve carefully placed burst with shatter. Mesmers also have a power of 40/60 for themselves and phantasms. So you hit lower with your weapon to make up for having phantasms. If you added up the damage of you and your phantasm dealing a crit at the same time it would be closer to that 8-10k dmg.

That in mind. Mesmers aren’t a pure dmg class either. They are more utility with burst potential.
All my opinion of course. But it is balanced. A warrior can run up to you and one shot you. But if you dodge it, they lost the fight.
Mesmers have so much utility that you would rather fight a thief with permstealth.

Ansau.7326:

Guys stop it.

It is not about how much damage I take with a glassy build.
It is not about how good or bad we both are.
It is not about a l2p issue.
It is not about which builds we play or should play.

It is about both running very offensive builds and him doing 4x times more damage in less hits than me, both using highest damage skills available for each class.
It is about he can kill me with 3 hits and I need to land 12-15 hits to do the same.
It is about the burst disparity between professions is at 300-400%

Listen mate – you seem to be new to gaming so let’s review some basics.
Classes aren’t balanced through numbers alone – but also through mechanics.

Your class differs from the warrior’s class in both numbers and mechanics – so don’t expect to have the same numbers when your class has access to much more beneficial mechanics such as blinking or stealth.
And if warrior burst is OP – then what about thief burst?

The problem you fail to see here is that in most roaming cases a warrior has to commit – it’s one or done – warriors don’t get blinks or stealth in order to easily disengage.
And yes – you can attempt to run with GS but with the new elite specs escape is much harder.

Also – is this 2013 again? Is warrior OP? wow.

Exciton.8942:

As for OP, I can say your stats are definitely not optimal

If you playing full power shatter, go full berserker with rune of pack/strength/scholar.
Your damage stats are way too low to hurt the warrior.

But even after optimizing, don’t expect to beat the warrior consistently. But you should at least have a slight chance of winning if you outplay him.

That’s exactly it – you shouldn’t expect to beat him up-front by sheer numbers . Instead use the mechanics you were given to outplay.

Riku.4821:

As the two above me. Mesmer involve carefully placed burst with shatter. Mesmers also have a power of 40/60 for themselves and phantasms. So you hit lower with your weapon to make up for having phantasms. If you added up the damage of you and your phantasm dealing a crit at the same time it would be closer to that 8-10k dmg.

That in mind. Mesmers aren’t a pure dmg class either. They are more utility with burst potential.
All my opinion of course. But it is balanced. A warrior can run up to you and one shot you. But if you dodge it, they lost the fight.
Mesmers have so much utility that you would rather fight a thief with permstealth.

A good power shatter mesmer has slim chance against an equally good power warrior.

‘A warrior can run up to you and one shot you. But if you dodge it, they lost the fight.’ This is complete lie. You must have not played the GS A/S warrior at all.

‘If you added up the damage of you and your phantasm dealing a crit at the same time it would be closer to that 8-10k dmg.’ This is true. But that requires landing GS234 and F1. You will probably do 15k+ damage. But is is very rare to land all of them since even the slowest reflect can dodge a portion of the damaging skill. The worst part is that after that burst, the mesmer will have absolutely no skills left to do damage until the F1 CD is back up.

Harper.4173:

Exciton.8942:

As for OP, I can say your stats are definitely not optimal

If you playing full power shatter, go full berserker with rune of pack/strength/scholar.
Your damage stats are way too low to hurt the warrior.

But even after optimizing, don’t expect to beat the warrior consistently. But you should at least have a slight chance of winning if you outplay him.

That’s exactly it – you shouldn’t expect to beat him up-front by sheer numbers . Instead use the mechanics you were given to outplay.

Before HoT, I would say the same thing because skill can overcome a lot of things.

But now, I will only suggest players change their build first. OP’s build is simply not good enough. Build and counterbuild easily wins you these 1v1s.

Ansau.7326:

Guys stop it.

It is not about how much damage I take with a glassy build.
It is not about how good or bad we both are.
It is not about a l2p issue.
It is not about which builds we play or should play.

It is about both running very offensive builds and him doing 4x times more damage in less hits than me, both using highest damage skills available for each class.
It is about he can kill me with 3 hits and I need to land 12-15 hits to do the same.
It is about the burst disparity between professions is at 300-400%

IMHO:

• In WvW you have to stay at range from warrior…. if he has a CC build you’ll be dead before you know it. Hammer and M/Sh tends to be a bad day…
• phantasms can kill your enemy for you without you having to move in…. or clones can spike and confus….
• Stuns will kill effectively, when you are reaching for the stun button he will use the adrenaline for a HB or Eviscerate…
• The 200 toughness will not save you… Those points are there to make you feel comfortable, not to make an actual difference tbh… the warrior will have the same amount in his armor. For free. Light armor has lower armor values then heavy. I could run 2300 armor a while ago when the meta was a bit more melee then it is now. In 1vs1 PvP higher armor will be a huge advantage, unless facting a condi.
• I do not expect the warrior to be 100 % zerk either… I expect him to be a cavalier build with zerk /assassin trinkets or the other way around or one of the new HoT stats: crusader or commanders with added precision.
• try and check your DPS at the golem and you’ll find out the warrior will be able to squeeze a HUGE amount of DPS out of a semi defensive build, mesmer cannot compete with any build…
• The main advantage of a mesmer in 1 vs 1 is confusing the enmy with clones or invisibility or a combination, or reflects and stuns, but you will need to fight ranged for reflects
• If the warrior HAS a mesmer character of his own, he’ll likely not be confused at all.
• You could have killed him with a condition PU build the classic still holds up… DPS wise… not really
• I agree with 1 thing I’ve found mesmer to be quite underpowered unless I’m fighting new players who are completely confused by the clones or do not dare to close… but:

If I’d be able to run a thieves DPS with all utility I have, plus phantsms? => OP

Warriors are now meta in WvW. Their high dmg coef combined with high heal coef make them unstoppable. They can do 30k dmg in 3 sec and still heal 20k HP in 10 sec.

More OP class are only Thieves there.

Their balance team have no clue. (We’ve seen how bad are they at some livestreams)

Lool people talking like if they knew me. And yet they fail to see a warrior, and some other professions, can be much more tanky than me while being more lethal that I could ever imagine regardless the build or stat combination I run.

So warrior was OK with no sustain, stustain comes, more people play warrior, few people know how to fight warrior, time to demand a nerf. Right. I remember a similar Discussion 2014. seems people can’t handle getting killed by the “noob omg you so Bad should play teef reroll or kick i hate Warriors cos they are not compicated yadayadayada” class.
Here’s news:
General Discussion:
- you post here mainly for pve matters, general topics
-your post fits the warrior, Mesmer wvw sub forum
-why post here? Most attention for a chronomancer that can’t fight a warrior? Mate that may backfire horribly.

Regarding Warriors:
- you light want to know that i carry arround: 1 axe, 2swords, 1rifle, 1 longbow, 1 greatsword, 1 shield, 1horn, 2 sets of different armour.
All easyly clickable. If i see a class that might be more mobile, i switch gear accordingly, if i expect melee pressure and low stability, welcome may i introduce me trusty axe and shield? Here’s a headbut.

It is understandable that many struggle with a class that was rather rare as of late.
But:

I for one object immensely to posting supposedly unfair dmg threats, while playing a utility class that is more common than blue loot and who’s playerbase is on par with the scrappers fan base in their opinion that the need the most skill.

Another piece of news:
“Skill” is not having lots of buttons to mash and hope that the enemy can’t handle stealth and easy to Dodge shatters.
If skill for a class is defined by the number of buttons then wow so many skilled eles arround.
You might consider that the warrior looked for an opening, if you duel and you do not mix kite and punishment and shatter into each of the sooo op ignore pains (you know 60 sec CD) sorry then you have to learn the hard way.
Warriors like you seem to have envountered, will try to force your dodges, then engage CC and press heavy dmg. Try to kite berserkmode ( torchsymbol) block or evade his bursts (no heal for him). Hammer away on him once his first ignore pain runs out. Wait restrain dmg and let him storm arround while he is in ignore pain. No warrior will attack you while you are invuln. Every one Sees when your invuln runs out Warriors can wait and headbut you while you whirl your sword arround and root yourself. Do never let a warrior come closer than 900 if you do be prepared for stuns. You can stunnlock Warriors. Just kite if you see either, stability higher than 2 (3 means balanced stance is on, no use trying to CC now) 10 (dolyak Signet) or a black armour or a yellowish shield Symbol. ( ignore pain, shieldblock).
Again Warriors gain sustain by hitting with their burst. Do not get hit by that.
You have: invis, Dodge, cloneswap, block, blind, weakness, vulnerability, CC, burst over distance.
You look out for bursts by looking on animations.
They are different with most races\genders:
-axe: eviscerate. Most often a rather slow jump, if you are not cced no biggy, if you are: birch or oak?
-sword: normal is a CC that bleeds, Berserker is a fire throwing cartoon tennisbat move. The matter is mobile and a projectile, though they are highly inaccurate if you are beyond 600 range.
GS: the normal is easy to spot( a piouette) and evade, even by walking as the range is low, the Berserker Form though is the same in faster meaner and has a bigger range.
Rifle: normal the bloke kneels and aims for ever, if you get hit by that, go back and train dodgeing. The Berserker Form is not rooted, takes less time to aim , Hits hard and Interrupts, but its a big firey ball. You can Dodge, unless you are right up in bis face.
Mace: both are Interrupts, both hit hard, both cast quick both have almost no range.

If you rely on your illusions for dmg be aware they die really fast, i often try to cleave the things. Every one and their dog knows what to do with phantasma defender\berserker.

Be fast, on range and look to force the Engagement, let the main attacks and defenses run into nothing. Chrono can more than handle Warriors, you just have to get used to fighting then.

Ansau.7326:

Lool people talking like if they knew me. And yet they fail to see a warrior, and some other professions, can be much more tanky than me while being more lethal that I could ever imagine regardless the build or stat combination I run.

Fine, you want to go that route, lets go that route.

Your picture of your states shows us nothing, Doesn’t your build, or what armor runs you are running. All it shows is your pretty attire, and that he had some good crits on you (which, they are a chance hit, those same attacks could have been under RNG and not crit).

Also it doesn’t show what food/oils you were running, nor did you mention if he had any or did. You also don’t even say what weapons you are using. For all we know, you are using the weakest weapons for a mesmer and not swapping.

So if you want to really get into the “NOOOO MUH Balance!” conversation AND have people agree with you, you need to bring more then 2 attacks from a warrior.

Silberfederling.9302:

Again Warriors gain sustain by hitting with their burst. Do not get hit by that.

Unfortunately clones/pets can’t dodge and some burst skills cleave, so it is not always possible for some classes to prevent adrenal healing.

Mesmer is still top tier in PvP and WvW roaming nonetheless. Build does matter – a lot. Saying warrior is better in general is simply wrong.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Silberfederling.9302:

Again Warriors gain sustain by hitting with their burst. Do not get hit by that.

Unfortunately clones/pets can’t dodge and some burst skills cleave, so it is not always possible for some classes to prevent adrenal healing.

Mesmer is still top tier in PvP and WvW roaming nonetheless. Build does matter – a lot. Saying warrior is better in general is simply wrong.

You are absolutly right about that. Op i saw we are in the same matchup this week. if you you want add me ingame and contact me. I’m sure we can change a few things to straighten the path.

Exciton.8942:

Riku.4821:

snip~

A good power shatter mesmer has slim chance against an equally good power warrior.

‘A warrior can run up to you and one shot you. But if you dodge it, they lost the fight.’ This is complete lie. You must have not played the GS A/S warrior at all.

‘If you added up the damage of you and your phantasm dealing a crit at the same time it would be closer to that 8-10k dmg.’ This is true. But that requires landing GS234 and F1. You will probably do 15k+ damage. But is is very rare to land all of them since even the slowest reflect can dodge a portion of the damaging skill. The worst part is that after that burst, the mesmer will have absolutely no skills left to do damage until the F1 CD is back up.

Yes I don’t tend to play warrior much, I’m glad that’s clear, I guess? I do play PvP from time to time, but I’m that garbage player you see running condition Mesmer, your welcome for the free wins!

I do agree with your point, well balanced 1v1, the warrior will most likely win. But if the odds are ever in the Mesmer’s favor I think the slim chance is much higher. This technically can be said for any match up, skill always plays a large factor.

My reasoning for the added dmg, is say you have three phantasm’s up, they roughly do 2k min 5k max? It’s easy to dodge them so lets say only 2 hit, that will probably end up being 6k~ damage, would you agree? If we’re lucky that is. Then combine with another skill or lucky auto attack chain. I think it’d even out into 8-10k. Then add f1 burst into fact and you add 6-15k damage depending on crit and lady luck.

I suppose that is my reasoning for saying all that and this was because the OP was complaining the Mesmer does poor damage compared to the warrior. Mesmer gets damage from Phantasms and combo rotation, while warrior gets damage mainly from self buff and two or three skills and strong auto attacks. IN MY OPINION strictly speaking from a class mechanic stand point. To rephrase what I said once more, Mesmers need to use ALL their class mechanics while warrior only needs some.

PS: As I said at the start, yes I mainly do PVE and have knowledge of PVE related subjects. Keep in mind this is in General Discussion. Where we all have the freedom to our own opinions and thoughts.

You don’t get it. The issue is not with the builds, get over it.

The thing is some professions have skills with very high coefficients that can be boisted a lot with stackable damage modifiers and might stacking, making these skills completely out of reason.
The photo takes warrior skills because it shows mine and his bursts at the same time. But the issue is still there with backstab, coalesence of ruins, death shroud AA, heartseeker, and some other skills.
It is an issue involving all professions.

Stop assuming things because you fail miserably. Ive been playing mesmer for over 2500 hours, with the same build (staff s/sh boonfest with durability runes) Ive won several duels and even outnunbered fights, neither of us ran foods or sigil stacks, and my server had all 3 ruins (so you have to add 60 to all my stats). My burst was Phase retreat+mind wrack (I know you already knew these skills can be comboed to make MW more effective with the staff).
I also have GS and torch to change when needed. Ascended weapons and trinkets and half ascended armor, so theres little stats to squeeze.

The funny thing is I only referred to the unreasonable damage coefficients and damage boosts disparity between bursts across professions, and you are the only ones who keep bringing overall build design, survivability, skill, knowledge of profession mechanics, which I didn’t even mentioned at all.

Ansau.7326:

You don’t get it. The issue is not with the builds, get over it.
Snip~
The funny thing is I only referred to the unreasonable damage coefficients and damage boosts disparity between bursts across professions, and you are the only ones who keep bringing overall build design, survivability, skill, knowledge of profession mechanics, which I didn’t even mentioned at all.

Maybe this is the point. It is true mechanically classes have “strong skills” while others don’t. You’re the only one arguing something is wrong here. In my opinion it is about the builds, nomad warrior won’t hit that high I’m sure. (That is a Joke.)

Riku.4821:

Ansau.7326:

You don’t get it. The issue is not with the builds, get over it.
Snip~
The funny thing is I only referred to the unreasonable damage coefficients and damage boosts disparity between bursts across professions, and you are the only ones who keep bringing overall build design, survivability, skill, knowledge of profession mechanics, which I didn’t even mentioned at all.

Maybe this is the point. It is true mechanically classes have “strong skills” while others don’t. You’re the only one arguing something is wrong here. In my opinion it is about the builds, nomad warrior won’t hit that high I’m sure. (That is a Joke.)

I never said an offensive warrior shouldn’t hit hard. But the truth is with such damage combos they dont need to be squishy to still hit hard.
Some professions have this option, be it with several damage modifiers or perma 20 stacks of might, they can afford to push for both passive and active defenses, making then unkillable if they are skilled unless heavy outnumbered.

If I choose Chaos specialization I know I wont hit as hard as with Domination. But I sacrifice offense to be able to deal with this kind of power insane.

Harper.4173:

You’re the one bringing it up because why counter with arguments and logic when you can just go “check yourself brah you don’t know stuff yeah”.

Exactly

Ps I hate that brah crap that’s not me :P

The point is, classes have different mechanics, you can’t compare only some numbers and ignore everything else. Warriors had always those hard hitting burst skills on top of highest base defense, yet they were the weakest class before the last balance patch – for good reasons.

Btw, 4x Mind Wrack has higher coefficient than eviscerate. Mesmer has access to dmg modifier/might/vuln too. Mesmer doesn’t lack burst dmg.

And people keep assuming things and making mistakes.

Since when I asked all professions should deal the same damage? Since when I asked all professions should have the same survivability?

All Im showing is there should be a better proportion over professions. Someone that puts a build able to deal an enemies bursts so it hits only for20-25% shouldnt be able to take 80-90% of enemies health with one of his many bursts.
Or said it in another way, someone who takes the risk to be oneshoted or taken down in few hits should deal more than just a 20-25% of enemies health with a burst.

Ansau.7326:

Guys stop it.

It is not about how much damage I take with a glassy build.
It is not about how good or bad we both are.
It is not about a l2p issue.
It is not about which builds we play or should play.

It is about both running very offensive builds and him doing 4x times more damage in less hits than me, both using highest damage skills available for each class.
It is about he can kill me with 3 hits and I need to land 12-15 hits to do the same.
It is about the burst disparity between professions is at 300-400%

It is clearly a L2P problem.

Ansau.7326:

All Im showing is there should be a better proportion over professions. Someone that puts a build able to deal an enemies bursts so it hits only for20-25% shouldnt be able to take 80-90% of enemies health with one of his many bursts.

So someone who has tons of ways to avoid getting hit at all shouldn’t be able to hit his enemy too, right?

Btw, did you know that it is possible for a full nomad ranger to burst for 20k+? No? Well nobody runs such a build, because it is just bad for other things than trolling noobs. Numbers alone are not what matter.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ansau.7326:

Guys stop it.

It is not about how much damage I take with a glassy build.
It is not about how good or bad we both are.
It is not about a l2p issue.
It is not about which builds we play or should play.

It is about both running very offensive builds and him doing 4x times more damage in less hits than me, both using highest damage skills available for each class.
It is about he can kill me with 3 hits and I need to land 12-15 hits to do the same.
It is about the burst disparity between professions is at 300-400%

It is clearly a L2P problem.

^^This

@OP: You’ve established you’ve spent a lot of time playing your mesmer: over, “2500 hours.” But, have you played Warrior at all? Part of L2P is learning what other’s are bringing to the table; their strengths and especially their weaknesses. Then, learning to react and adapt.

Spend some time as a Warrior if you haven’t. If you learn the class you’ll learn the counters to the things you find frustrating. Just dueling your warrior friend isn’t going to be enough to learn this stuff.

Balance is more than just damage numbers… the strengths and strategies of builds feeds into the why’s of some coefficients being significantly different from one another.

This is why people are bringing up builds and all the other things you’re outright dismissing… because the problem you’re having is more complicated than you’re believing it is.

~EW

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ansau.7326:

Guys stop it.

It is not about how much damage I take with a glassy build.
It is not about how good or bad we both are.
It is not about a l2p issue.
It is not about which builds we play or should play.

It is about both running very offensive builds and him doing 4x times more damage in less hits than me, both using highest damage skills available for each class.
It is about he can kill me with 3 hits and I need to land 12-15 hits to do the same.
It is about the burst disparity between professions is at 300-400%

It is clearly a L2P problem.

^^This

@OP: You’ve established you’ve spent a lot of time playing your mesmer: over, “2500 hours.” But, have you played Warrior at all? Part of L2P is learning what other’s are bringing to the table; their strengths and especially their weaknesses. Then, learning to react and adapt.

Spend some time as a Warrior if you haven’t. If you learn the class you’ll learn the counters to the things you find frustrating. Just dueling your warrior friend isn’t going to be enough to learn this stuff.

Balance is more than just damage numbers… the strengths and strategies of builds feeds into the why’s of some coefficients being significantly different from one another.

This is why people are bringing up builds and all the other things you’re outright dismissing… because the problem you’re having is more complicated than you’re believing it is.

~EW

why don’t you tell him the weaknesses plus CDs on those ‘weaknesses’ and he’ll tell you why it’s kittens.

Although I agree. And Power shatter of any variant needs a buff.

This is exactly why I find duels silly (especially in WvW where stats are even less balanced than pvp). Everyone knows balance isn’t based on 1v1, but even less so is it based on bowing in 1v1 on a flat with skill restrictions (like no Moa in 1v1s for example)

The moment you allow for terrain and use of the Z axis so many other options open up, also in the case of Mesmer I believe that it is another aspect of their defense and I’m pretty sure is A-nets justification for holding back mesmer damage compared to warrior.

But I too would like to see some standardization. But I mean… It doesn’t help that they mitigated half your mind wrack while they get to do 16k in two easier to land moves.

Ansau.7326:

So well, I was doing a few duels against a warrior (yeah 1vs1, no ganking) in WvW and he totally wipe me out. No matter what I tried I ended running out of my defenses while he was bursting me over an over.
But the last fight… The picture speaks for itself.

I wish coefficient skills were more consistent among all professions, and decided with damage modifiers and might stacking potential in mind…

As others have pointed out, its not just your build, but your execution, for example from the log I see he landed his head butt on you, that should have never happened. You either blew all your defensive abilities and stamina at the wrong time or just plainly did not bother to avoid it.

So you need a LOT of practice. I recommend running some unranked SPVP and experimenting a bit, then coming back to roam to WVW. SPS makes great “training wheels” for what you are doing.

Ansau.7326:

You don’t get it. The issue is not with the builds, get over it.

The thing is some professions have skills with very high coefficients that can be boisted a lot with stackable damage modifiers and might stacking, making these skills completely out of reason.
The photo takes warrior skills because it shows mine and his bursts at the same time. But the issue is still there with backstab, coalesence of ruins, death shroud AA, heartseeker, and some other skills.
It is an issue involving all professions.

You don’t get it. Warriors can only ever have a single offensive skill going at a time. Mesmers can be landing multiple at once. If a Warrior is Eviscerating you, he’s not Gunflaming, Head Butting, Hundred Blading, Final Thrusting, or even Auto-attacking you. With a Mesmer? You can time your skill rotation so that the Warrior gets hit by 3-5 different skills at once.

I know solution of this problem, simply put their health to 11k base like thieves elementalists and guardians. So be a glass cannon but die quickly. Or be a tanky one with 18k hp and don’t do 15k undodgable eviscerate.

Ragnarox.9601:

I know solution of this problem, simply put their health to 11k base like thieves elementalists and guardians. So be a glass cannon but die quickly. Or be a tanky one with 18k hp and don’t do 15k undodgable eviscerate.

Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.
My friend…

Well, to be honest, after your latest responses OP, it sounds more and more like an , “I lost and it isn’t fair,” issue than anything else now. Sorry, but I must concur: Learn to Play.

By the way, as a mesmer? You shouldn’t be getting hit at all. Mesmers aren’t meant to take a ton of burst damage.

I’ll leave it at that.

It amazes me how many people find so hard to understand the meaning of proportion.

3.500 and 5.000 out of 20.000 are proportional, but 4.000 and 10.000 out of 20.000 aren’t.
And yet 5.000 is still quite higher than 3.500…

This has nothing to do with perception, skill, class knowledge… They are just numbers, cmon!!!

Yes, they are just numbers – and numbers alone are meaningless.

Ragnarox.9601:

Warriors are now meta in WvW. Their high dmg coef combined with high heal coef make them unstoppable. They can do 30k dmg in 3 sec and still heal 20k HP in 10 sec.

More OP class are only Thieves there.

Their balance team have no clue. (We’ve seen how bad are they at some livestreams)

Warrior so OP – tell me more please. Also – anyone remember the days of condi mesmer mesmers that you couldn’t win against no matter what you did?

Ansau.7326:

You don’t get it. The issue is not with the builds, get over it.

The thing is some professions have skills with very high coefficients that can be boisted a lot with stackable damage modifiers and might stacking, making these skills completely out of reason.
The photo takes warrior skills because it shows mine and his bursts at the same time. But the issue is still there with backstab, coalesence of ruins, death shroud AA, heartseeker, and some other skills.
It is an issue involving all professions.

Stop assuming things because you fail miserably. Ive been playing mesmer for over 2500 hours, with the same build (staff s/sh boonfest with durability runes) Ive won several duels and even outnunbered fights, neither of us ran foods or sigil stacks, and my server had all 3 ruins (so you have to add 60 to all my stats). My burst was Phase retreat+mind wrack (I know you already knew these skills can be comboed to make MW more effective with the staff).
I also have GS and torch to change when needed. Ascended weapons and trinkets and half ascended armor, so theres little stats to squeeze.

The funny thing is I only referred to the unreasonable damage coefficients and damage boosts disparity between bursts across professions, and you are the only ones who keep bringing overall build design, survivability, skill, knowledge of profession mechanics, which I didn’t even mentioned at all.

It’s you that doesn’t get it.
Higher coefficients are balanced around classes – some classes get higher numbers because they lack other benefits.
Warriors lack blinks, blinds, stealth, protection. Their only damage mitigation comes from 2 stances – that are both on 60 second cooldowns. So yes – you’d imagine they had decent sustain.

Backstab is a one-hit wonder – because it’s intended to be like that – it’s the thief’s best up-front burst.
AA from shroud is the same.
Coalescence of ruin can be seen from miles away and dodged.

These are high-risk high reward skills – because they’re not constantly on-demand or because they’re easy to avoid.

If you get hit by a CoR – that’s your fault.

I have once again bolded out the part of your train of thought that is the problem. You do not understand that different classes get different coefficient numbers based on other things the class has or does not have.

Warrior is a simple class – it hits hard because that’s really mostly it for the class. It has no “aces up its sleeve” – so it is stronger up front.
Other classes hit for less – but have more “tricks”. That’s how the game is balanced.
Not everything is about damage dealt – sometimes damage dealt or burst effectiveness has to be balanced around the class’ overall utility and strengths.

Ansau.7326:

Riku.4821:

Ansau.7326:

You don’t get it. The issue is not with the builds, get over it.
Snip~
The funny thing is I only referred to the unreasonable damage coefficients and damage boosts disparity between bursts across professions, and you are the only ones who keep bringing overall build design, survivability, skill, knowledge of profession mechanics, which I didn’t even mentioned at all.

Maybe this is the point. It is true mechanically classes have “strong skills” while others don’t. You’re the only one arguing something is wrong here. In my opinion it is about the builds, nomad warrior won’t hit that high I’m sure. (That is a Joke.)

I never said an offensive warrior shouldn’t hit hard. But the truth is with such damage combos they dont need to be squishy to still hit hard.
Some professions have this option, be it with several damage modifiers or perma 20 stacks of might, they can afford to push for both passive and active defenses, making then unkillable if they are skilled unless heavy outnumbered.

If I choose Chaos specialization I know I wont hit as hard as with Domination. But I sacrifice offense to be able to deal with this kind of power insane.

Please explain to me how warrior is unkillable with his 2 stances on 60 seconds cooldown.

Here’s a tip – there are 1 v 1 match-ups that you will not win – just because of how the game is balanced.
Back when condi mesmer roamer was strong I knew better than to fight one if I was a warrior.

The nature of the game and the 9 professions in all their complexity means that yes – at one point your class will not be able to 1 v 1 another class. While that class might be weak in a 1 v 1 against a third class.
That does not make the game broken – the game is not balanced around 1 v 1.