Guild Wars 2

Hi,

How would you rank different areas of the game.

World Bosses
Champion Trains
Dugneons
Queens Pavilion

World Bosses – Some are easier than others, but these give pretty good rewards. Overall a pretty good return on risk/effort.

Champion Trains – Very easy, but the rewards aren’t that great. A reasonable return on risk/effort.

Dungeons – Probably the best rewards, but at only one reward per path per day. A pretty good return on risk/effort.

Queen’s Pavilion – Reasonable rewards, but pretty difficult and requiring lots of effort. Not a very good return on risk/effort.

So, I would rank World Bosses #1, then Dungeons, Champions, and finally Queen’s Pavilion.

I think that when they release LW content, they should make sure that the content is at least in the middle wrt risk/effort vs rewards.

What do you think?

You forgot the Trading Post.

Please define risk/effort. Can we boil that completely down into “time”?

World Bosses – Too strong reward for auto attack fests. World Bosses like Teq, Wurm, are in a good place.

Champ Trains – Far too strong, even now, for their reward. Needs nerfing to the ground.

Dungeons – Limited reward per day. Effort is required to complete them in a reasonable time. Most dungeon paths are fair, some are too good (Arah P1, P2) and some are too weak (COF P2, SE P2, HOTW P2/3)

Queens Pavilion – Abhorrent reward for the time if uncoordinated, but I’m currently in a gold overflow and it’s very rewarding. Very fair, and more content needs to be like this. A little more “guarenteed” reward is required for Gold though, as it’s a crapshoot if you get anything or not.

Rouven.7409:

Please define risk/effort. Can we boil that completely down into “time”?

Well, I equate effort with time.

For Risk, it’s either the risk of getting nothing from a task, or getting less than the optimal rewards. Take some of the hard World Bosses, for example. They would have high risk, because you might not actually be able to complete them.

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

Lankybrit.4598:

Rouven.7409:

Please define risk/effort. Can we boil that completely down into “time”?

Well, I equate effort with time.

For Risk, it’s either the risk of getting nothing from a task, or getting less than the optimal rewards. Take some of the hard World Bosses, for example. They would have high risk, because you might not actually be able to complete them.

True, but again, the only thing lost would be … time.

Especially since there is no armour repair cost anymore. Well … there would still be waypoint costs, but usually at world bosses you will get a hand before it’s too late.

Perhaps you should separate world bosses like tequatl from world bosses like shadow behemoth?

Lankybrit.4598:

Hi,

How would you rank different areas of the game.

World Bosses
Champion Trains
Dugneons
Queens Pavilion

World Bosses – Some are easier than others, but these give pretty good rewards. Overall a pretty good return on risk/effort.

Champion Trains – Very easy, but the rewards aren’t that great. A reasonable return on risk/effort.

Dungeons – Probably the best rewards, but at only one reward per path per day. A pretty good return on risk/effort.

Queen’s Pavilion – Reasonable rewards, but pretty difficult and requiring lots of effort. Not a very good return on risk/effort.

So, I would rank World Bosses #1, then Dungeons, Champions, and finally Queen’s Pavilion.

I think that when they release LW content, they should make sure that the content is at least in the middle wrt risk/effort vs rewards.

What do you think?

Balancing this game with Risk/Effort vs Reward regard is nearly impossible! That whole horizontal progression is not working for this game at all. There is no reason for playing content other then accumulating wealth. And there can be only one activity at any given time that gives you the most profit. And limiting that activity to one time per day does not work.
The game feels grindy and boring from the moment you finished your vertical progression (story and character progression wise) up until now.

Add other reasons to play content besides gold… And your game is saved. You can thank me later.

Anyone else. I guess I forgot about EOTM farming too, because I have absolutely no first hand experience with it.

Oh, and Nick. Gold is why I play, so that I can buy gems with it and improve my account.

I think living world rewards is fine. Many people are doing it, because it’s the only way to get tokens, and it’s only way to get the rewards from the vendor.

Pavilion has very good rewards, not the issue – issue is you need to be in a good, organized server, while there’s very little tools to help communicating and even some restricting it (language filters, blocked messages). If you get into one, then you get pretty much 10 bags per, I don’t know, 10 minutes ? That’s nice. Buffing rewards was a nice idea and make the effort more worth, and while the event is, in my opinion, still lacking some very basic help from ANet, it still rewards you well for being in a good group.

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

I never heard anyone having a “net loss” investing the TP.

Sure I took a beating from zealot recipe. But I’m sure almost everyone gain more than they loss.

It’s not like it is hard to speculate. Oh buy leather, ships coming back again. Oh this item going to discontinue after event is over. So hard to guess if the item price will go up. I only hope the real life stock market is that easy.

Beside even the developer trying to help the investors make money. “oh we want people to do long turn investment, because it is fun”… so not likely we’ll make people loss money from it.

laokoko.7403:

I think living world rewards is fine. Many people are doing it, because it’s the only way to get tokens, and it’s only way to get the rewards from the vendor.

Is there any good tokens -> gold stuff to buy? Oh, I guess I should look on the wiki, but if you have first hand knowledge, that would be appreciated.

And AnAspieKitten, that could indeed be the issue. I got there, got on the event, and 45 minutes or so later we’d downed the last boss for a Bronze award and 6 bags. I haven’t been back since.

Risk/Effort/Time/Reward wise, EotM is above everything else. Tons of: XP, Karma, raw money, champion boxes, wvw ranks, and in both mine and my sister’s experience an higher chance to drop Ascended boxes and trinket compared to any PvE (except FotM). Worse risk is to wipe and have to pay nothing to repair your armor, then farm all over the map again. You need just to spam 1 for real. In the time I make 1k Badges of Honor (Which can provide me full armor sets (zerkers) for barely any money compared to what I would need to pay to buy them from TP, and weapons) I am lucky if I get 400 tokens scattered among different dungeons which won’t even allow me to have the required armor piece immediately, because I end up with like 120 from TA, 120 from HotW etc, with random different stats.
I am expecting a nerf to strike EotM so hard, farm till you can!

Lankybrit.4598:

laokoko.7403:

I think living world rewards is fine. Many people are doing it, because it’s the only way to get tokens, and it’s only way to get the rewards from the vendor.

Is there any good tokens -> gold stuff to buy? Oh, I guess I should look on the wiki, but if you have first hand knowledge, that would be appreciated.

eh no. I didn’t say that. You can buy things from past event. I’m sure many people are doing it because of that.

If you have everything from past event. You probably dont’ find this event very rewarding.

Lankybrit.4598:

laokoko.7403:

I think living world rewards is fine. Many people are doing it, because it’s the only way to get tokens, and it’s only way to get the rewards from the vendor.

Is there any good tokens -> gold stuff to buy? Oh, I guess I should look on the wiki, but if you have first hand knowledge, that would be appreciated.

And AnAspieKitten, that could indeed be the issue. I got there, got on the event, and 45 minutes or so later we’d downed the last boss for a Bronze award and 6 bags. I haven’t been back since.

Yes, there are a lot of issues with the event and I’m the first to admit it as I previously stated on other threads ; however, they’re trying to make the game more skilled and I can’t approve that more than I do, they’re just not giving us enough tool to work better with it. I reckon it will get better with time, as they experience more of those kind of events. Use LFG if you want to get in a good server.

World Bosses— Low effort medium reward (11111 stay alive)
Big World Bosses (Teq)— Medium effort, Medium-High Reward (You might actually fail but there’s a bit more stuff to open)
Champ Trains— No effort low reward (follow the leader)
Dungeons— High effort High reward (You have to learn to dodge and use good builds)
Queen’s Pavillion— High Effort Medium Reward (Coordination required)
WvW zerging— Low Effort Medium Reward (111111 and gear tanky)
WvW outside of blobs and trains (Escorting yaks, defending towers)— High Effort Negative Reward (Pretty much anything that helps your server isn’t rewarded well and in fact costs a lot. )

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

TP = least effort. You don’t have to dodge or manage cooldowns/health sitting afk at the trading post.

There’s a few problems (from my point of view) with the game’s horizontal progression and the content.

In a Horizontal Progression based game, there has to be enough diversity in armor/weapon skins to chase and there needs to be more added constantly IN the game (adding that progression). GW2 adds these things into the Gem Shop, thus removing that progression from the players and instead replaces it with Gold Chasing.

Further, a steady pace of new content needs to be released in large chunks with some of the above mentioned armor/weapon skins to give the players some content to gnaw on.

Will they burn through it quickly? Depends on the quality and size of the content. Many GW players may enjoy taking alts through the new content and aquiring those new skins for those alts – thus increasing the value of the new content.

Again, GW releases piece meal content “bites” with few to no sets of armor/weapons. A piece here and there maybe, but no sets that might take a bit to earn. And that which is released, isn’t earned; rather it’s farmed/grinded for by repeating the “bite” sized content in an effort to make it last a bit longer…

What the game needs for rewards is a system that adds items (armor and weapons) to the game that is earnable through the content; minus any grind and or farming. Complete a task, earn a piece (not complete the same task ten times then get a piece). The task should be long in duration – like the personal story (Or using GW1 as an example – The Elite Cantha armor or several of the sets gainable in Nightfall at certain points after unlocking new areas).

As always, just my opinion on it.

QP
Though its easy for me I can get in a gold map pretty much whenever I need it. 10 champ bags + 80 tokens for a little work is a short amount of time is worth it for me.

World Boss
Somthing different to do

Teq/3x Wurm
Again very fun to do with TTS and getting a kill on wurm is always a nice feeling

Dungeons
I am just sick of

laokoko.7403:

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

I never heard anyone having a “net loss” investing the TP.

That’s because those who lose quickly give up.

Soa Cirri.6012:

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

TP = least effort. You don’t have to dodge or manage cooldowns/health sitting afk at the trading post.

Why is dodging/managing cooldowns/health any more effort than hunting for deals, sniping ‘highest buyer’ or ‘lowest seller’ slots at the optimal times, managing inventory/stock diversity, hunting for best return-on-time-and-investment, etc? Oh yeah, and sorting through hundreds of bad deals.

Surfing/browsing through the numerous windows and searches of the TP is a LOT more effort-intensive than hitting the same muscle-memory keys, and a bad deal can set you back dozens of gold and leave you with tons of near-worthless stock.

All that being ‘beat down’ in a PvE environment costs you is a silver or two to WP to life, and a little bit of time to get back to where you were. Character Death is not a risk at all.

Sartharina.3542:

laokoko.7403:

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

I never heard anyone having a “net loss” investing the TP.

That’s because those who lose quickly give up.

Soa Cirri.6012:

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

TP = least effort. You don’t have to dodge or manage cooldowns/health sitting afk at the trading post.

Why is dodging/managing cooldowns/health any more effort than hunting for deals, sniping ‘highest buyer’ or ‘lowest seller’ slots at the optimal times, managing inventory/stock diversity, hunting for best return-on-time-and-investment, etc? Oh yeah, and sorting through hundreds of bad deals.

Surfing/browsing through the numerous windows and searches of the TP is a LOT more effort-intensive than hitting the same muscle-memory keys, and a bad deal can set you back dozens of gold and leave you with tons of near-worthless stock.

All that being ‘beat down’ in a PvE environment costs you is a silver or two to WP to life, and a little bit of time to get back to where you were. Character Death is not a risk at all.

so you actually loss more money than you gain for investing in TP?

Because the best answer I got is “oh I never pay attention to how much money I make or loss, so I don’t know” (eventhough anyone with half a brain would know buy leather when ships comes around, or buy limited item which will be discontinued).

I’m really bad at real life stock market, even I find it really easy to make money from GW2 TP. I’m sure anyone with half a brain won’t find GW2 investing hard.

laokoko.7403:

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

I never heard anyone having a “net loss” investing the TP.

Sure I took a beating from zealot recipe. But I’m sure almost everyone gain more than they loss.

It’s not like it is hard to speculate. Oh buy leather, ships coming back again. Oh this item going to discontinue after event is over. So hard to guess if the item price will go up. I only hope the real life stock market is that easy.

Beside even the developer trying to help the investors make money. “oh we want people to do long turn investment, because it is fun”… so not likely we’ll make people loss money from it.

I bought hundreds of sigil of force. Then some kitten gave the secret for cheap sigil of force and I lost a lot of money.

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

False.

The self called TP pros Always try to avoid mentioning easy stuff like inflation.
They used for years the excuse that generating gold caused inflation.

Now that gold lowered, prices keep skyrocketing due to them.

So Whatever you play outside TP you are losing money even if you succeed.

Ex.

You were farming gold for a precursor?
Gratz you lost all your play time because the price got higher than what you farmed.

Same for anything in demand.

As said many times you had your time, you were too gridy, and you can t hide problems anymore.

This game will either die by its economy or will be forced to change direction soon.
You can t pretend economy is fine.

runeblade.7514:

laokoko.7403:

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

I never heard anyone having a “net loss” investing the TP.

Sure I took a beating from zealot recipe. But I’m sure almost everyone gain more than they loss.

It’s not like it is hard to speculate. Oh buy leather, ships coming back again. Oh this item going to discontinue after event is over. So hard to guess if the item price will go up. I only hope the real life stock market is that easy.

Beside even the developer trying to help the investors make money. “oh we want people to do long turn investment, because it is fun”… so not likely we’ll make people loss money from it.

I bought hundreds of sigil of force. Then some kitten gave the secret for cheap sigil of force and I lost a lot of money.

ya me too on other things. I hope that’s not the only thing you invested.

I bought 250 sigil of air at 20-25 silver. I sold them at around 60 silver. I could make more if I sold at 1 gold.

I’m not sure why you chase high of sigil of force. Or you mean you just didn’t make the potential money you could make. If you bought sigil of force earlier you still are making money.

I dont’ think that many people waste skill point on it. Since there are better ways to spend skill point. I think you just got beat because it is only a temporary spike, not to mention there are supplies from personal story.

Vol.7601:

Soa Cirri.6012:

You forgot the Trading Post.

TP = highest risk of all

edit: all other avenues have zero risk. You don’t lose gold doing dungeons or champ trains

You made thousands if not tens of thousands of gold from investing right?

I find it very hard to understand why all those people with huge bank account keep saying TP is high risk. You bought so many leather you can cancel out all the buy order.

If I were to look at ALL areas of the game here goes:

Most challenging to least challenging:

Challenging (hardest):
++ Team Arena
+ World vs. World Small Scale/Solo/Duo Roaming
= Solo Arena

Average challenge (good/easy):
+ PvP Hotjoin
+ Fractals (and very time-consuming)
= Some dungeons

Below average (easy to extremely easy):
+ Most dungeons
= Wurm, Tequatl
- Other world bosses
— Champions

Quick note: Mark II, 5 minutes of mostly standing still with a rifle (20-25 dragonite)
Shadow Behemoth, lots of running around and trying to hit his big dumb moving head (max of 5 dragonite)

Any wonder why I’d almost never do SB, but I jump on Mark II if I get a chance?
Reward vs Risk/Investment

Rauderi.8706:

Quick note: Mark II, 5 minutes of mostly standing still with a rifle (20-25 dragonite)
Shadow Behemoth, lots of running around and trying to hit his big dumb moving head (max of 5 dragonite)

Any wonder why I’d almost never do SB, but I jump on Mark II if I get a chance?
Reward vs Risk/Investment

I died when getting to Mark 2 and didn’t get rezzed and didn’t get loot. Hence the Risk

Lankybrit.4598:

Rauderi.8706:

Quick note: Mark II, 5 minutes of mostly standing still with a rifle (20-25 dragonite)
Shadow Behemoth, lots of running around and trying to hit his big dumb moving head (max of 5 dragonite)

Any wonder why I’d almost never do SB, but I jump on Mark II if I get a chance?
Reward vs Risk/Investment

I died when getting to Mark 2 and didn’t get rezzed and didn’t get loot. Hence the Risk

Baaah, you know better than to lay there for a rez. For shame. :P Waypoint and dash is about 20 seconds, tops. Still, I feel sorry for those under range 1200. ;_; It’s such a hazard.

Sirendor.1394:

If I were to look at ALL areas of the game here goes:

Most challenging to least challenging:

Challenging (hardest):
++ Team Arena
+ World vs. World Small Scale/Solo/Duo Roaming
= Solo Arena

Average challenge (good/easy):
+ PvP Hotjoin
+ Fractals (and very time-consuming)
= Some dungeons

Below average (easy to extremely easy):
+ Most dungeons
= Wurm, Tequatl
- Other world bosses
— Champions

lol @ solo/ duo roaming being challenging. I see no challenge in 2 thieves ganking lone players as they try and run somewhere. And that is hands-down the majority of duo/solo roamers. Or, engage players, omg we’re losing, _ stealth, run away_. Or, duo roam, see a group of enemies with more numbers, run away. That is not skill. sPvP/tPvP requires skill, WvW duo/solo roaming is opportunism with very little risk, especially for thieves, but for all classes in general. It’s two people, typically in BiS, looking for easy targets to kill. If you personally have some kind of standards (i.e. you will only engage groups for 3+ then great), but I can tell you most solo/duo roamers are strictly looking for easy/vulnerable targets that are low risk.

Draknar.5748:

…most solo/duo roamers are strictly looking for easy/vulnerable targets that are low risk.

If by “targets” you mean vistas and POIs, then guilty as charged. =P
…Does WvW even have “rewards” for the risk? Not counting the season stuff, since an individual player has .0001% agency in it.

Best Effort to Reward Ratio
Trading Post
Credit Card
TTS Tequatl
Guild Dungeon Runs
Pushing 1 on standard world bosses
hitting yourself with a brick
Great Jungle Wurm
hitting yourself with two bricks
pugging dungeons
having a friend hit you with some bricks while hitting yourself with two bricks
WvW
PvP

You also have to bear in mind that players will place different values on rewards.

For example I’ve done several things in this game, including WvW Season 1, various meta achievements and the Queen’s Gauntlet entirely to get mini pets. The Gauntlet especially took a huge amount of time and effort and I got almost nothing except the mini (in fact I probably lost more money on waypoints, armor repairs and tickets last August than I got back in total).

To me it was well worth it because at the end of it I got a mini for my collection which I couldn’t get any other way. To someone else however that would just be another useless item to sit in the collectibles tab forever and wouldn’t even count towards justifying the time and effort required.

(There’s also non-quantifiable rewards. For example the Dolyak mini got me to finally try WvW and I found I really enjoy it, so now I have another game mode to play and the Gauntlet made me a much better player and gave me a huge sense of achievement. But it’s virtually impossible to rank those things against the experiences I’ve gotten from other content, and completely impossible to compare them to how other people feel about things they’ve done.)

Draknar.5748:

Sirendor.1394:

If I were to look at ALL areas of the game here goes:

Most challenging to least challenging:

Challenging (hardest):
++ Team Arena
+ World vs. World Small Scale/Solo/Duo Roaming
= Solo Arena

Average challenge (good/easy):
+ PvP Hotjoin
+ Fractals (and very time-consuming)
= Some dungeons

Below average (easy to extremely easy):
+ Most dungeons
= Wurm, Tequatl
- Other world bosses
— Champions

lol @ solo/ duo roaming being challenging. I see no challenge in 2 thieves ganking lone players as they try and run somewhere. And that is hands-down the majority of duo/solo roamers. Or, engage players, omg we’re losing, _ stealth, run away_. Or, duo roam, see a group of enemies with more numbers, run away. That is not skill. sPvP/tPvP requires skill, WvW duo/solo roaming is opportunism with very little risk, especially for thieves, but for all classes in general. It’s two people, typically in BiS, looking for easy targets to kill. If you personally have some kind of standards (i.e. you will only engage groups for 3+ then great), but I can tell you most solo/duo roamers are strictly looking for easy/vulnerable targets that are low risk.

Ha, looks like you never fought me. I have been roaming from 2011 until around november 2013. All that time I was always fighting outnumbered, and most of my time went to guardian, warrior, elementalist and mesmer. One of my best fights ever was 5 vs 25.

The OP asked “my” opinion, you are free to disagree, but don’t say every roamer is a heartseeker spamming thief, because that’s simply a wrong generalisation.