Hjorje
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Lead, Follow, or get the hell out of my way.
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Lead, Follow, or get the hell out of my way.
Scarlet needs to go. Now.
@Hjorje and Yumiko Ishida.
Whoa, whoa, whoa guys!!! I think you two really are saying the same thing. I don’t Yumiko was against you Hjorje. I think he was supporting you. He wasn’t telling you (Hjorje) to keep your opinion to yourself, he was saying that about all the complainers. Re-read his reply to you. I think you will find he is supporting you.
The reason I like both of you is because you actually support the game and are the voice of reason and common sense much of the time. I hate to see a misunderstanding like this.
Though my first post was infracted… really now?
Sorry to hear that Yumiko. I didn’t find what you said wrong at all. I still support you because you are a fan of the game and are often a voice of reason.
You do realize the majority of the updates are already in the works and have been for months now? The last should be started soon now that the Wintersday patch is live. The teams have four months to work on the content. One of those teams should be just about done. There’s no logical way they can just scrap the rest of the Scarlet arc.
Except people pointed out how stupid she is 3-4 months ago.
Except the basic structure of the Living Story was written in advance in its entirety back in February/March. Scarlet’s role, character concept and the general course of the story were already decided back then. (If you want details, you can search back for the video interviews with Angel McCoy and Scott McGough where they announce the upcoming Living Story concept.)
Remember, Scarlet was not actually introduced until Queen’s Jubilee. By then, it was far too late to rewrite the character or her introduction, even if ArenaNet wanted to.
The only thing that was arguably still open to change after Scarlet’s first appearance were the specific lines the character would speak during future appearances. And even that would have a lead time of 8 weeks (which is the development time of a single Living World release).
What was botched is the manner of presentation of Scarlet, which basically consisted of a “tell, don’t show” narration. If instead of the Scarlet’s Funhouse instance, we would have been given the opportunity to investigate Scarlet’s past, and to piece together her history in-game from clues we could gather in-game, possibly resulting in a voiced montage cutscene illustrating Scarlet’s backstory, we would probably have cared about her more.
Unfortunately, what we got was “raving lunatic sylvari” + optional infodump text, which is arguably one of the worst ways of getting an audience to care about a character.
I say, let Scarlet Briar run her course. ArenaNet will surely have drawn conclusions from player feedback (both negative and positive), and will use any such lessons for future Living Story installments. You know, when another writing round comes along for content that has not yet been locked in.
It doesn’t matter what Scarlet does at this point, she’s a kitten character who was forced down the players throats with very little back story.
I still quite haven’t figured out what they’re shooting for with her character development, one person suggested that they were try for insanity, much like the Joker from batman. It seems terribly lazy and poorly thought out whatever it is.
Getting tired of threads like this. The moment Anet mentions Scarlet everyone feels they need to make a thread laying out in a carefully thought out post saying why they hate her. We get it. Anet gets it. Scarlet wasn’t a particularly well written character for whatever reason.
What Anet has done in the announcement the OP is adamantly calling out is the light at the end of the tunnel everyone else is calling for. The problem the OP can’t live with (and I can’t imagine why – this is a game after all) is that it’s going to take four more updates.
I don’t care for Scarlet much like the rest of us however I’m pleased to know there’s a light up ahead and it’s approaching fast.
Reine Tovar [HoTR] – Mesmer
Aerika [HoTR] – Necromancer
Aerika [HoTR] – Necromancer
I haven’t read all the replies to this, but I am gonna chime in and say Scarlet does have a back story. You just judged a book by its cover so to speak and didn’t bother to read it.
So since you don’t really give a crap about the story , why are you complaining?
because there is no real significance of scarlet to the game other than they chose to use her they could have easily just had a rouge tengu rampaging and killing things but the tengu themselves couldnt bring it down and needed help but they chose that god awful bush that needs to be pruned and turned to mulch
Getting tired of threads like this. The moment Anet mentions Scarlet everyone feels they need to make a thread laying out in a carefully thought out post saying why they hate her. We get it. Anet gets it. Scarlet wasn’t a particularly well written character for whatever reason.
What Anet has done in the announcement the OP is adamantly calling out is the light at the end of the tunnel everyone else is calling for. The problem the OP can’t live with (and I can’t imagine why – this is a game after all) is that it’s going to take four more updates.
I don’t care for Scarlet much like the rest of us however I’m pleased to know there’s a light up ahead and it’s approaching fast.
As I already wrote once, even though my opinion is negative, I’m only trying to improve the game – healing a tree by cutting off a dead branch.
Yes, there is now a light at the end of the tunnel. My main point is that in the next four updates this light will be getting dimmer and dimmer and for many players this light will be completely gone when the next season of living story starts.
My second problem is that this much time for a conclusion suggests that they will want to tie the end of her story to the beginning of the next one. Again, this is a bad idea. Scarlet will never be part of GW2 main story. No matter how much they try, it will never happen. I’m merely trying to minimize the time that the players will see as completely wasted.
I agree lampshade I lost my light when they wouldnt stop LS updates 3 months ago the crap gets old want something new to do than run around the same zones that have been there since release doing god knows what scarlet was the stranglethorn on gw2 for me and it has stopped breathing imo they will preform cpr eventually I just hope it wont be too late
I dislike Scarlet. She is a bit too cartoonish for my taste. I don’t doubt that others do like her though.
I think it is a disservice to one’s opinion to attempt to claim that the, “majority,” or, “most people,” or whatever dislike her as well. If YOU don’t like her, say so. It is not the best idea to claim to speak for tens of thousands of others though.
That said, those who argue, “just don’t play the content if you don’t like it,” are making an argument every bit as flawed. The living story is the primary source of new content release. If someone is a fan of GW2, loves the game, has invested themselves in their characters, has spent money on gems, etc, it is unreasonable to suggest that they not express a desire that the only new content of significance be something that they can enjoy.
Were the Scarlet story arc a single piece of a larger picture of content release during the period of time she has been around there would be much less of an issue. The people who like her could play her story arc while those who dislike her could play through a different story arc.
I dislike Scarlet. She is a bit too cartoonish for my taste. I don’t doubt that others do like her though.
I think it is a disservice to one’s opinion to attempt to claim that the, “majority,” or, “most people,” or whatever dislike her as well. If YOU don’t like her, say so. It is not the best idea to claim to speak for tens of thousands of others though.
That said, those who argue, “just don’t play the content if you don’t like it,” are making an argument every bit as flawed. The living story is the primary source of new content release. If someone is a fan of GW2, loves the game, has invested themselves in their characters, has spent money on gems, etc, it is unreasonable to suggest that they not express a desire that the only new content of significance be something that they can enjoy.
Were the Scarlet story arc a single piece of a larger picture of content release during the period of time she has been around there would be much less of an issue. The people who like her could play her story arc while those who dislike her could play through a different story arc.
or ORRRR explore new lands the desert across sea to the ring of fire islands or over to cantha maybe the magumma jungle northern shiverpeaks or istan/elona come on tired of seeing the same crap
Edit: imho I think if you add these other lands we will go there get tired of them eventually but because there is so much more landscape we will begin to miss certain ones and go back there to play with new people and help them find their way around or just to see the sights again
I really dislike Scarlet.
The idea that a sylvari bookah could ever be more than a minor concern to the asura is utterly ridiculous. She seems nothing more than a fanciful fictional character that the sylvari bookahs made up in some outrageous story.
“Please, you can look down on people without having to be physically above them.
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
As an asura, I do this all the time.”
The lore never stated that other races were excluded from the Asuran education system (this includes Scarlet), its just darn hard to get into it if you ate not aura no matter how much IQ you have. As the Asura are just that darn racist. If the Asura were the only truly smart people how would the priory exist? An Asura runs it now, but a Human ran it long before him.
Its not the GIXX PRIORY its the Durmand Priory! Durmand was a human and by that logic no race is smarter than any others. The Asura only believe they are smarter because they are ignorant bigots in lore.
This shows why I like Scarlet. She shows to the world and the player the Asura were wrong in their bookah mentality. You me and Tom, Di_ck, and Jane, and Larry Humans, Norn, Charr, and Sylvari (as in Scarlet) can also do great things and be as intelligent as the tiny pipsqueeks my guardian can stomp with her human foot.
Also to further this point, I RP my guardian as a girl that went through their statics education and was raised by an Asura as a child. No more lore breaking than Scarlet or Priory being on par with Asuran education and tech.
Yumiko Emi Ishida 80 Ele, Hikari Kyoko Ishida 80 Guard TC-NA. Active RPer of NA megaserver.
Regardless of the few more updates they have with Scarlet, let’s just be happy that she’s finally going away!
I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. Four more updates is four too many.
I don’t even care if there’s an in-game explanation given. The Lore has already been broken. I don’t want her dead, I want her removed. I want her retconned.
I want authority over the direction of the story taken away from the people responsible for creating and promoting her, and this whole crappy storyline, and this whole crappy content delivery schedule.
About the only positive thing I can say about Scarlet is that, since they withdraw most of the content at the end of each update, it will take very little effort to scrub her.
Former Guild Wars 2 fan. RIP, ArenaNet’s integrity.
The problem with Scarlet, was that it wasn’t tied into the Personal Story.
After Zhaitan, we jump straight to the Karka invasion, then the Living World updates started coming.
Everything feels disjointed.
Regardless of the few more updates they have with Scarlet, let’s just be happy that she’s finally going away!
Yeah, until we get another Traehearne.
Then we’ll be begging for Scarlet again.
I like Scarlet. And I’d be rather annoyed if I didn’t get to the end of the story that was started. It would be like going through Orr and finding a fast food restaurant where Zhaitan was supposed to be.
Isn’t that kind of what happened, though..?
Like you travel all over the map, do all your story missions…and for the exciting, climactic Zhaitan fight? -crickets- yeah let’s shoot a couple cannons and it’s over. So tbh maybe Anet should take some of all the time they’re using on LS and Scarlet and use it to plan out an EXCITING dragon fight for next time, even if that’s like 2 years away. Cause after Zhaitan, let’s face it, they probably need that much time.
I am a WvW player.
Maguuma Server
Ranger and Necromancer.
Maguuma Server
Ranger and Necromancer.
Scarlet doesn’t need to be killed, she needs to be erased from history.
Admitting a mistake is the first step towards fixing it.
(Same goes for Trahearne. Any fans of Trahearne? Handcount. Come on. Anyone at all?..)
I don’t even care if there’s an in-game explanation given. The Lore has already been broken. I don’t want her dead, I want her removed. I want her retconned.
I want authority over the direction of the story taken away from the people responsible for creating and promoting her, and this whole crappy storyline, and this whole crappy content delivery schedule.
And for the people who like Scarlet (if you exist): I have a theory. Just a hunch. I can’t tell you what you think and I’m not going to tell you what to like. There’s nothing wrong with liking things, it’s fun for all involved.
But.
I don’t think you like Scarlet. I think you like Tara Strong. She’s an amazingly energetic actress capable of making even the worst script sound fun.
If Scarlet were presented solely in written dialogue (“DIE DIE DIE!”) and solely through other characters (“Scarlet is super awesome at everything and her super-armies are invading everywhere this week like the last and she can’t be beat!”) she’s be an example of pure zero-effort lazy self-indulgent third-rate Power Rangers fan fiction.
Scarlet doesn’t need to be killed, she needs to be erased from history.
Admitting a mistake is the first step towards fixing it.
(Same goes for Trahearne. Any fans of Trahearne? Handcount. Come on. Anyone at all?..)
I don’t even care if there’s an in-game explanation given. The Lore has already been broken. I don’t want her dead, I want her removed. I want her retconned.
I want authority over the direction of the story taken away from the people responsible for creating and promoting her, and this whole crappy storyline, and this whole crappy content delivery schedule.
And for the people who like Scarlet (if you exist): I have a theory. Just a hunch. I can’t tell you what you think and I’m not going to tell you what to like. There’s nothing wrong with liking things, it’s fun for all involved.
But.
I don’t think you like Scarlet. I think you like Tara Strong. She’s an amazingly energetic actress capable of making even the worst script sound fun.
If Scarlet were presented solely in written dialogue (“DIE DIE DIE!”) and solely through other characters (“Scarlet is super awesome at everything and her super-armies are invading everywhere this week like the last and she can’t be beat!”) she’s be an example of pure zero-effort lazy self-indulgent third-rate Power Rangers fan fiction.
Yeah tbh I kinda stopped following LS a while back…but this ^ and either that, or people who like her are the kind of people who like anything. Like people who watch 200 episodes of Inuyasha and think it’s good. Or most modern tv shows. And maybe that’s why- tv shows have terrible plots, so people don’t even realize that this stuff is bad anymore. Idk.
I’ve been talking with some friends lately about stories and plotlines, and I think there are a couple of main, big holes writers can fall into with plotlines. The first is like Inuyasha, where you just keep dragging the story out as long as you can (generally because for things like tv shows, you want it to last really long so you get more views and keep the show alive)- but this is a kittenty way to tell a story. Stories should be paced, with a beginning, middle, and an end. It doesn’t work if it’s just beginning and middle, and if you drag it out too long it just gets stale and really just loses something.
The second big mistake is gonna be along the lines of how I feel about Scarlet..and that’s when storytellers, again normally to keep a story going, have to keep..creating new plot twists and extra plotlines, or keep making a new, bigger, badder villain to top the last one.
I guess that’s not necessarily the deal with Scarlet, but..I mean we had all these things going on with living story- flame and frost, the aetherblades, and some other things..And it just seems like really bad storytelling to create some big supervillain who is responsible for all of it. Honestly it just seems like laziness, like they couldn’t come up with good explanations and backgrounds for aetherblades and the flame and frost stuff, so they just create some big generic supervillain who is responsible for it all. And that’s not creative or really adding any depth to the story of the game. And if they don’t fix this way of writing, then I’ll bet they’ll end up in that second category. Next thing you know we’ll have an even bigger, badder supervillain who maybe was responsible for Scarlet, or maybe even killed her. Probably with about as little backstory or depth as Scarlet had. Hopefully Anet doesn’t get into that pattern, and can slow down and make some deep, cohesive storylines from now on…
I am a WvW player.
Maguuma Server
Ranger and Necromancer.
Maguuma Server
Ranger and Necromancer.
People who like obviously, patently, objectively terrible TV shows and such is actually an easily explained phenomenon: this happens when you’ve never seen anything better.
In fact, I think a lot of people know what I’m talking about. If you’ve been staring into the idiot box most of your life and suddenly there’s THAT one film or THAT one book that shows up and makes you you spend the next week crying tears of joy over how good it is, you’re not going back to watching Fat People Farting and Kazakhstan Idol after that.
It should be noted, however, that it’s perfectly possible to like a work that’s otherwise terrible for its few good moments. Whether you know it’s terrible or not.
Scarlet’s, while being butt-uggly and stupid, sports an energetic voice actress and a fun character archetype. While her story and presentation will make many cringe, there’s still something you can like.
It’s, you know, Twilight: horrible in every respect, but at least there’s a hint of Romeo and Juliet somewhere underneath.
…Honestly it just seems like laziness, like they couldn’t come up with good explanations and backgrounds for aetherblades and the flame and frost stuff, so they just create some big generic supervillain who is responsible for it all…
But consider for a second that the PR people assured us all of it was planned in advance – and given how long these things take to develop, it probably was – that it was all an utter failure from the start, knowingly, by design.
Remember that we’ve had Trahearne before.
Trahearne was basically Scarlet before Scarlet: some super-amazing nobody we’ve never heard of that waltzes out of nowhere to steal all the story for himself… It’s absurdly exactly the same now that I think about it…
No.
She’s good where she is atm.. 4 patches to tidy everything up in a neat little bundle.You may not of liked a non-generic villain like her but lots of people inc myself do.
And if it was anyone else it would be the same.
She is generic, what are you talking about?
The living story is a AP and loot grab if there was no AP or loot, how many would actually bother doing the LS stuff? I think the problem most have with Scarlet is she seems to have no direction, generic and she’s so good at everything yet accomplishes nothing. She’s a bit silly and getting into all three Asura colleges is what people think they hate the most. For someone who is supposed to be such a great villain she hasn’t done much.
Also while they said they wanted to get away from human centric themes, they picked Sylvari.. they’re pretty much plant humans. They could have used something really out there as the villain.
The lore never stated that other races were excluded from the Asuran education system (this includes Scarlet), its just darn hard to get into it if you ate not aura no matter how much IQ you have. As the Asura are just that darn racist. If the Asura were the only truly smart people how would the priory exist? An Asura runs it now, but a Human ran it long before him.
Its not the GIXX PRIORY its the Durmand Priory! Durmand was a human and by that logic no race is smarter than any others. The Asura only believe they are smarter because they are ignorant bigots in lore.
This shows why I like Scarlet. She shows to the world and the player the Asura were wrong in their bookah mentality. You me and Tom, Di_ck, and Jane, and Larry Humans, Norn, Charr, and Sylvari (as in Scarlet) can also do great things and be as intelligent as the tiny pipsqueeks my guardian can stomp with her human foot.
Also to further this point, I RP my guardian as a girl that went through their statics education and was raised by an Asura as a child. No more lore breaking than Scarlet or Priory being on par with Asuran education and tech.
Are you saying what you RP actually effects the lore? Because I’ve seen people on TC RP as vampires and as characters from Lotr. So not sure about your point, your guardian isn’t in any update I seen or is there a living story about your personal character I’ve yet to play through?
So much Elonian Wine in this thread. Its only 4 more updates. And honestly things are starting to get very interesting if you’ve been paying attention. I kinda think people are just hating Scarlet now because its the cool thing to do. Hell I’ve seen brand new players hop on the band wagon. Two months worth of updates and shes all wrapped up yea?
The lore never stated that other races were excluded from the Asuran education system (this includes Scarlet), its just darn hard to get into it if you are not aura no matter how much IQ you have. As the Asura are just that darn racist. If the Asura were the only truly smart people how would the priory exist? An Asura runs it now, but a Human ran it long before him.
Its not the GIXX PRIORY its still the Durmand Priory! Durmand was a human and by that logic no race is smarter than any others. The Asura only believe they are smarter because they are ignorant bigots in lore.
This shows why I like Scarlet. She shows to the world and the player the Asura were wrong in their bookah mentality. You me and Tom, Di_ck, and Jane, and Larry Humans, Norn, Charr, and Sylvari (as in Scarlet) can also do great things and be as intelligent as the tiny pipsqueeks my guardian can stomp with her human foot.
Also to further this point, I RP my guardian as a girl that went through their statics education and was raised by an Asura as a child. No more lore breaking than Scarlet or Priory being on par with Asuran education and tech.
Are you saying what you RP actually effects the lore? Because I’ve seen people on TC RP as vampires and as characters from Lotr. So not sure about your point, your guardian isn’t in any update I seen or is there a living story about your personal character I’ve yet to play through?
Its not what I’m saying… but me rping her in this way where she was educated as an orphan was never frowned upon by any one player that understood the lore, which goes to show most rpers know their lore more than others(the ones you stated that rp things like out of game stuff are usually blacklisted and ignored anyways) and most of them don’t hate scarlet either. I was making a personal example to show that its indeed possible for what scarlet doing what she did education wise can be done. It is more believable than you think!
Yumiko Emi Ishida 80 Ele, Hikari Kyoko Ishida 80 Guard TC-NA. Active RPer of NA megaserver.
Getting tired of threads like this. The moment Anet mentions Scarlet everyone feels they need to make a thread laying out in a carefully thought out post saying why they hate her. We get it. Anet gets it. Scarlet wasn’t a particularly well written character for whatever reason.
What Anet has done in the announcement the OP is adamantly calling out is the light at the end of the tunnel everyone else is calling for. The problem the OP can’t live with (and I can’t imagine why – this is a game after all) is that it’s going to take four more updates.
I don’t care for Scarlet much like the rest of us however I’m pleased to know there’s a light up ahead and it’s approaching fast.
You’re getting sick of threads like this & people are already sick of Scarlet. We get it, Anet loves Sylvari & overpowered fan-fic Lolitas, yes. I’m sorry, but as long as something dumb is in the game, people should be free to moan & complain. If it’s coming all that fast then you shouldn’t mind a few more months of people explaining in painful detail why she’s beyond repair.
I don’t want a “light at the end of the tunnel” for excruciating stories & characters, I want to hear that that something good is coming. I want to hear that Tengu are being worked on, I want to hear that housing, a real cosmetics system, guild halls, capes, Cantha.. all that stuff.. instead.. “Hey! So Scarlet is gonna be around for quite a bit longer! We know she’s awful & people would rather hear that Tengu & Cantha are upcoming but we love her so, whatever!”
So much Elonian Wine in this thread. Its only 4 more updates. And honestly things are starting to get very interesting if you’ve been paying attention. I kinda think people are just hating Scarlet now because its the cool thing to do. Hell I’ve seen brand new players hop on the band wagon. Two months worth of updates and shes all wrapped up yea?
Maybe she’s actually awful? I guess that’s just not possible. People who don’t like her (even though it’s such a huge amount) they must be wrong because… why exactly? like I said before.. some people think JarJar binks is a great character too.
(edited by DarksunG.9537)
I have no issue with the Scarlet character. I thought her role in the Queen’s Jubilee was well done and appropriate, and I could see her being a fun, lighthearted villain with a recurring role in the world.
Making her the center of every living story update from that point on was uninspired writing, but was to some extent justifiable if they wanted to build the character some more.
Going back and retconning all the previous living story releases to have really been about Scarlet, and then putting out the Thermanova Reactor fractal and making that about Scarlet…they’re beating us over the head with their comic relief villain. Remember how at one point their antagonists were a bunch of elder dragons threatening to destroy the world? I know, it’s easy to forget when it seems that everything that happens in the world is a big practical joke played by the comic relief.
I am getting tired of people prescribing their own taste to all other players and the game developers.
I get it. You don’t like Scarlet. Thank you for your opinion. Goodbye.
Please stop pretending that your opinion entitles you to tell ArenaNet how to run their game. (Yes, Guild Wars 2 is their game, not yours.) Feel free to leave.
I think it is interesting to see there are people that feel so strong (in a negative way) about Scarlet. Do you guys really follow that story so much. I think the whole living story boring and yes it’s annoying when this one NPC turns up all the time, especially when she even turned up in the reactor. However that was mainly because they had to involved that stupid living story even in the fractal patch, not so much the scarlet figure itself.
The whole living story is a boring excuse to put more temporary things in the game trying to get people to keep playing and spending money on the gem-store.
So if the whole living story is so boring why care about one NPC in that story. You say, scarlet needs to go, I say the living story in the form it exists now (content / achivement / reward / temporary wise) needs to go.
Anytime something random and bad happens, I now say #BecauseScarlet
I think I’m qualified to write some Living Story content now.
ArenaNet does NOT play Guild Wars 2. This can’t be.
I am getting tired of people prescribing their own taste to all other players and the game developers.
I get it. You don’t like Scarlet. Thank you for your opinion. Goodbye.
Please stop pretending that your opinion entitles you to tell ArenaNet how to run their game. (Yes, Guild Wars 2 is their game, not yours.) Feel free to leave.
People payed for it so yeah that gives them the right to give there vision on the subject. They pay so they partly own.
And why do you think you are entitled to prescribing your own taste to all other players? Because thats what you are doing with this post.
BTW, ArenaNet is only the content creator. Not the owner. People here are owner of a copy of the game and telling the content creator what they dislike about the content.
Scarlet is the cancer of GW2.
One day you will know what cancer is and what it really means. Remember that.
Scarlet is the cancer of GW2.
One day you will know what cancer is and what it really means. Remember that.
Does metaphor mean anything to you? I doubt it does. I know what it REALLY means both being a victim of it and having beloved ones struggling because of it. Yup, you can leave now.
I am getting tired of people prescribing their own taste to all other players and the game developers.
I get it. You don’t like Scarlet. Thank you for your opinion. Goodbye.
Please stop pretending that your opinion entitles you to tell ArenaNet how to run their game. (Yes, Guild Wars 2 is their game, not yours.) Feel free to leave.
People payed for it so yeah that gives them the right to give there vision on the subject. They pay so they partly own.
And why do you think you are entitled to prescribing your own taste to all other players? Because thats what you are doing with this post.
BTW, ArenaNet is only the content creator. Not the owner. People here are owner of a copy of the game and telling the content creator what they dislike about the content.
No, ArenaNet is the sole owner of the game. We just own a license to play their content. In no way does possessing a GW2 account confer any right to dictate what the content should be. (Except to the extent that ArenaNet is willing to listen to suggestions.) You must be confusing game licenses with shares in the company.
What annoys me about these Scarlet-bashing posts is three things:
1. Some of the most vocal Scarlet-bashers (which happens to include the OP) claim that they are speaking for everyone when they proclaim their opinion. Let one thing be clear: I do not give permission to these people or anyone on this forum to speak on my behalf. My opinion is my own, thank you very much. I am not the only one in this thread who has complained about this.
2. Every single one of the Scarlet-bashers who starts a thread, believes that what they have to say has not been said before. Fifty anti-Scarlet threads later, I highly doubt that premise. Also, I am not overly impressed or convinced by arguments that consist of little more than the words “everyone knows”, “it is public knowledge”, or “obviously”. These are all variations of “I say that X is true. Therefore X is true. And therefore, everybody now agrees with me.” This is just plain bad argumentation.
3. This entire topic and all threads like it (beyond perhaps the first) is a gross overreaction. Scarlet is a fictional character, not a gross injustice or a violation of civil rights. She is not even a violation of a business agreement (because we paid to play a game with no say about the content). We are talking about a fictional character that may not be to everyone’s taste. Nobody should be fired over this. No planned releases should be changed over this. No civil wars should be started over this. Crying to the heavens about this issue and posting demands without offering any constructive feedback is not a mature way of stating your case. It certainly will not accomplish anything.
- Just because someone does not share your opinion, does not mean that that person is “one of the very few” who do.
Yes. And just because you dislike the criticism voiced against her story arc doesn’t make you not the minority.
- People who like what is going on have little reason to go post about it, which is why “I hate X” threads are more common than “I like X” threads.
That is true. People who like something don’t open “I like X” threads. You know what they do? They create fanworks and fanart, they use avatars and sig pictures of them (obviously in other forums), they show off their dedication to the character, or they, gasp, actively cite them as an example of a well written character in in-depth discussions.
And in terms of game content, they actually … discuss it. I see very little of that happening, Most is technical like bugs/rewards or general expressions of disappointment. But I see no strategy talk, no guides, no nothing. (The fast-food, throwaway nature of the individual subforums isn’t exactly conductive to that either)
Where is all of that with Scarlet/the LS? Saying numerous people love her but you can never know that because they don’t go out and express it is like saying that blue unicorns exist in your drawer. You can’t disprove either.
- Just because there is a Living Story, players are not forced to participate in it. Just go do your WvW or dungeon runs or guild missions as usual. If something annoys you, don’t expose yourself to it.
You realize that if LS is taken out of the equation, we don’t get any new content in PvE, right?
So please stop proclaiming: “I hate Scarlet, which means that everyone hates Scarlet, which means that Living Story is a failure, which means that I get to tell ArenaNet what to do.” Because even if the first thing is true, none of the others necessarily follow. Basic faulty logic.
It also does not mean that it doesn’t follow. Yours is the faulty logic. The general sentiment is clearly negative. The burden of proof is on you.
We are talking about a fictional character that may not be to everyone’s taste. Nobody should be fired over this. No planned releases should be changed over this.
Actually I do think people should be fired over delivering a year’s worth of a substandard content arc. Would you equate firing a writer who wrote a crap, antithetical season for a beloved TV series to starting a civil war as well?
(edited by Jamais vu.5284)
I am getting tired of people prescribing their own taste to all other players and the game developers.
I get it. You don’t like Scarlet. Thank you for your opinion. Goodbye.
Please stop pretending that your opinion entitles you to tell ArenaNet how to run their game. (Yes, Guild Wars 2 is their game, not yours.) Feel free to leave.
People payed for it so yeah that gives them the right to give there vision on the subject. They pay so they partly own.
And why do you think you are entitled to prescribing your own taste to all other players? Because thats what you are doing with this post.
BTW, ArenaNet is only the content creator. Not the owner. People here are owner of a copy of the game and telling the content creator what they dislike about the content.
No, ArenaNet is the sole owner of the game. We just own a license to play their content. In no way does possessing a GW2 account confer any right to dictate what the content should be. (Except to the extent that ArenaNet is willing to listen to suggestions.) You must be confusing game licenses with shares in the company.
What annoys me about these Scarlet-bashing posts is three things:
1. Some of the most vocal Scarlet-bashers (which happens to include the OP) claim that they are speaking for everyone when they proclaim their opinion. Let one thing be clear: I do not give permission to these people or anyone on this forum to speak on my behalf. My opinion is my own, thank you very much. I am not the only one in this thread who has complained about this.
2. Every single one of the Scarlet-bashers who starts a thread, believes that what they have to say has not been said before. Fifty anti-Scarlet threads later, I highly doubt that premise. Also, I am not overly impressed or convinced by arguments that consist of little more than the words “everyone knows”, “it is public knowledge”, or “obviously”. These are all variations of “I say that X is true. Therefore X is true. And therefore, everybody now agrees with me.” This is just plain bad argumentation.
3. This entire topic and all threads like it (beyond perhaps the first) is a gross overreaction. Scarlet is a fictional character, not a gross injustice or a violation of civil rights. She is not even a violation of a business agreement (because we paid to play a game with no say about the content). We are talking about a fictional character that may not be to everyone’s taste. Nobody should be fired over this. No planned releases should be changed over this. No civil wars should be started over this. Crying to the heavens about this issue and posting demands without offering any constructive feedback is not a mature way of stating your case. It certainly will not accomplish anything.
Aren’t Scarlet fans doing the same thing? Where is the massive support for Scarlet? Where has any game magazine said Scarlet is the best thing to come out for Gw2 etc? I do not understand you people. You complain about complainers and offer no facts to refute their claims, only stuff about how you personally feel so how are you any better?
- Just because someone does not share your opinion, does not mean that that person is “one of the very few” who do.
Yes. And just because you dislike the criticism voiced against her story arc doesn’t make you not the minority.
And unless you can prove otherwise, you can’t say that Jornophelanthas is not in the majority either.
- People who like what is going on have little reason to go post about it, which is why “I hate X” threads are more common than “I like X” threads.
That is true. People who like something don’t open “I like X” threads. You know what they do? They create fanworks and fanart, they use avatars and sig pictures of them (obviously in other forums), they show off their dedication to the character, or they, gasp, actively cite them as an example of a well written character in in-depth discussions.
And in terms of game content, they actually … discuss it. I see very little of that happening, Most is technical like bugs/rewards or general expressions of disappointment. But I see no strategy talk, no guides, no nothing. (The fast-food, throwaway nature of the individual subforums isn’t exactly conductive to that either)
Where is all of that with Scarlet/the LS? Saying numerous people love her but you can never know that because they don’t go out and express it is like saying that blue unicorns exist in your drawer. You can’t disprove either.
This is just inane. I personally don’t have time to “create fanwork and fanart”, or any of those other things that you claim true fans of content do. I spend my time in game enjoying content, not being fanatical about it. I can also say that those in my guild are the same. We enjoy the LS but are not doing any of those things that you claim devout fans do. I think that is only reserved for over the top fans and fanatics, not people who simply enjoy what the LS brings.
- Just because there is a Living Story, players are not forced to participate in it. Just go do your WvW or dungeon runs or guild missions as usual. If something annoys you, don’t expose yourself to it.
You realize that if LS is taken out of the equation, we don’t get any new content in PvE, right?
Exactly. But the person you are quoting is not wrong. Obviously this thread and threads like this prove that everyone will not like all content that is produced. Others will indeed like the content. What content do you propose that everyone, not just you, will like?
So please stop proclaiming: “I hate Scarlet, which means that everyone hates Scarlet, which means that Living Story is a failure, which means that I get to tell ArenaNet what to do.” Because even if the first thing is true, none of the others necessarily follow. Basic faulty logic.
It also does not mean that it doesn’t follow. Yours is the faulty logic. The general sentiment is clearly negative. The burden of proof is on you.
It seems like you both have faulty logic here. Someone proclaiming “I hate Scarlet” does not indicate that the person is saying “Everyone hates Scarlet” or the the living story is a failure or that anyone gets to tell ArenaNet what to do. It also doesn’t mean he is necessarily wrong either.
And you have no basis to make a statement like “The general sentiment is clearly negative.” Unless you can poll all players, the burden of proof for saying something like that is on you.
(edited by jheryn.8390)
I am getting tired of people prescribing their own taste to all other players and the game developers.
I get it. You don’t like Scarlet. Thank you for your opinion. Goodbye.
Please stop pretending that your opinion entitles you to tell ArenaNet how to run their game. (Yes, Guild Wars 2 is their game, not yours.) Feel free to leave.
Forums exist to voice opinions on a game and the changes therein. If you do not like free speech, I would suggest not visiting internet forums. Good day!
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
The anti-Scarlet sentiment has always been an overwhelming majority on the forums. If people say it’s “obvious” that no one likes Scarlet, that’s because it is.
Her supporters are incredibly far and few between and even then, having fans is absolutely no measure of quality. Scarlet and her story are just bad. Want to know why exactly? Well, there are tons of threads and even more posts about that too, including by yours truly.
Trying to convince the majority they’re in a minority is a losing game. Going with the “no evidence” line in a thread full of hate of said character is rather absurd, honestly.
The bottom line is that people feel betrayed and upset by ANet’s writers not for just introducing such an incredibly poor story in the first place, but ignoring their player’s reaction to it as well. It flies in the face of expectations of good quality and honest development.
I don’t mind the voicing of the anti-Scarlet opinion. What I object to (which is also an opinion, and just as valid as anyone else’s) is the generalization that takes place. People who agree with the threadstarter expect everyone to agree with them, without even considering the opinions of possible dissenters.
Freedom of speech is NOT shouting and expecting to be heard. It is equal parts the right to be heard, and the duty to listen. In order to open your mouth, you must also not close your ears.
I objected not to the Scarlet-hate but to the closed-mindedness espoused in this thread.
For the record, I do not like Scarlet because I believe the character to be badly written and presented. I also do not hate Scarlet, because I find her mildly amusing. And I like the Living Story (which happens to include Scarlet). Therefore, I believe it is a bad idea to abort the current storyline, which is what this thread is really about.
I expect nobody to agree with me simply because I happen to have this opinion. Thank you.
People who agree with the threadstarter expect everyone to agree with them, without even considering the opinions of possible dissenters.
Just because people may feel rejected and ignored, doesn’t mean they are. It’s simply what being a minority feels like. It’s not fun. Hell, most people try to avoid being in a minority like the plague for that reason.
Personally, I couldn’t care less if Scarlet’s hatedom was in the majority or the minority. She’s just Trahearne V2.0. It’s bad writing; it’s so childish and transparent it feels like a personal insult.
Speaking of feeling like an insult, that’s also the problem people have with developers continuing to toe the line on Scarlet despite the outpouring of hate for the character. They promise to listen to player feedback, but they really don’t.
And unless you can prove otherwise, you can’t say that Jornophelanthas is not in the majority either.
Should we continue this or do you realize how meaningless your addition was?
This is just inane. I personally don’t have time to “create fanwork and fanart”, or any of those other things that you claim true fans of content do. I spend my time in game enjoying content, not being fanatical about it. I can also say that those in my guild are the same. We enjoy the LS but are not doing any of those things that you claim devout fans do. I think that is only reserved for over the top fans and fanatics, not people who simply enjoy what the LS brings.
You have to be purposefully dense that you took my statement as meaning that every single fan of the character/content would create fanworks. But out of a playerbase of 3.5 million, I expect at least some dedication to the LS in the manner of WoW or even GW1, if it were truly liked that is.
Please tell me you just made that argument for the sake of argument and not because you sincerely believe I implied that.
Others will indeed like the content. What content do you propose that everyone, not just you, will like?
So you agree that we needed a shakeup after more than one year of only one side being catered too? Good.
And you have no basis to make a statement like “The general sentiment is clearly negative.” Unless you can poll all players, the burden of proof for saying something like that is on you.
Forums, comment sections and ingame chats don’t count even a tiny bit. Got it. You sound like every delusional game dev and apologist ever shortly before their downfall.
I do not think they are going to stop the next 4 LS events best to take what coming and move on from there you will live a lot longer if you did not stress about things you cant contort. They may have some fun content.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
“I don’t (think I will) like what you’re planning for the next several updates, so please take thousands of person-hours worth of work and put it in the bin. Then when there are no updates for months because of all this wasted effort, I will return to the forums to complain that I am bored. Oh, and all the people who actually like the Scarlet story, well, I don’t, and since I’m the center of the universe, they don’t matter.”
Sure.
Guys, asking for them to destroy content they have already made to be released isn’t going to happen anyway. What we are going to have to do, is grit our teeth, deal with the dime store kindergarten bully villain type story for 4 more updates, then hope they continue with real updates in the following months after.
Some people really DO like the dime store villain I have heard this story a million times type story. I’m positive it’s less than the people who dislike bland stories, but we have no way to prove that other than our opinions.
They aren’t going to throw work out they have already done. It’s silly to ask. Just grin and bear the terrible story line until we can give them another chance.
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
(edited by Aeonblade.8709)
“I don’t like what you’re planning for the next several updates, so please take thousands of person-hours worth of work and put it in the bin. Then when there are no updates for months because of all this wasted effort, I will return to the forums to complain that I am bored.”
A good summary of why you don’t make huge and lasting commitments to terrible ideas. Or ignore player feedback for that matter.
Oh, and all the people who actually like the Scarlet story, well, I don’t, and since I’m the center of the universe, they don’t matter.
Since you enjoy an inferior version of the product, it’s best for all involved – including yourself – to dismiss your interests. After all, if people liked an utterly terribly-written character, surely a better-written one would be liked at least just as much.
Guys, asking for them to destroy content they have already made to be released isn’t going to happen anyway.
Most people, and almost all companies, can never admit they’ve made a mistake.
Better companies design their workflow in such a way that they do not make lasting commitments to ideas that can fail, have ways to recycle abandoned content, or will do away with previous work if it proves disastrous in practice. It’s all part of good game design.
Guys, asking for them to destroy content they have already made to be released isn’t going to happen anyway.
Most people, and almost all companies, can never admit they’ve made a mistake.
Better companies design their workflow in such a way that they do not make lasting commitments to ideas that can fail, have ways to recycle abandoned content, or will actually do away with previous work if it proves disastrous in practice. It’s all part of good game design.
While I agree with this statement, I don’t see ANet being one of the companies who adjusts the work flow.
Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.
While I agree with this statement, I don’t see ANet being one of the companies who adjusts the work flow.
You’d think they would have to with how many interlocking systems there are in GW2, and considering we’ve seen at least a couple semi-sized overhauls of some systems, but then they completely refuse to budge on other fronts. It’s a bit odd.
A good summary of why you don’t make huge and lasting commitments to terrible ideas. Or ignore player feedback for that matter.
Asking for them to change direction in the future is perfectly reasonable. Asking them to junk work already completed or mostly completed — without even knowing what it is, no less — is both childish and futile.
Since you enjoy an inferior version of the product, it’s best for all involved – including yourself – to dismiss your interests.
I wasn’t aware that you were the High Lord and Ultimate Judge of Content Inferiority and Superiority. When did that decision get made, exactly?
Here’s a better idea: if you don’t like how Arenanet is managing this franchise, why not play something you actually like?