Scarlet needs to go. Now.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Lampshade.7569

Lampshade.7569

1. Some of the most vocal Scarlet-bashers (which happens to include the OP) claim that they are speaking for everyone when they proclaim their opinion. Let one thing be clear: I do not give permission to these people or anyone on this forum to speak on my behalf. My opinion is my own, thank you very much. I am not the only one in this thread who has complained about this.

It is my personal opinion that four more updates involving Scarlet would be damaging for the Living Story and the game itself and you are welcome to disagree.

Meanwhiles, others are comparing her to JarJar or want her entirely removed from history.

Coincidence? I think not.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Bolbo Baggins.8594

Bolbo Baggins.8594

Speak for yourself, not for the many. I quite enjoyed the last LS chapter. And looking forward to what it will bring in 2014. The introduction of a certain dragon(s), just my bet… And interrested in how did Scarlet get so mentaly deranged. Dont be surprised if somebody else is pulling the strings.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Draco.2806

Draco.2806

I wasn’t aware that you were the High Lord and Ultimate Judge of Content Inferiority and Superiority.

Well, now you know. Does the title not show up on forums?

Asking them to junk work already completed or mostly completed — without even knowing what it is, no less — is both childish and futile.

Oh, okay. I’ll tell Gabe Newell his work is childish and futile the next time I see him.

If you start working on a failed project, you better see it through to the end, right?

Here’s a better idea: if you don’t like how Arenanet is managing this franchise, why not play something you actually like?

Been playing Skyrim for the last couple of weeks. Makes Guild Wars 2 RPG experience seem pitiful in comparison.

But, you know why you don’t hear that line of defense very often? Because people who use it watch their games dwindle and die as a consequence.

Telling people to leave if they don’t like it – not the best sales strategy.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

Telling people to leave if they don’t like it – not the best sales strategy.

I will have to agree with this as well. I feel like this is the reason WoW has lost half its sub base in a year. I feel like it is what happened to Rift, which I loved, but they didn’t listen to their players and the game suffered for it. To the point where it went F2P.

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Qaelyn.7612

Qaelyn.7612

Well, now you do.

I certainly know that the sorts of demands being made here aren’t to be taken seriously, anyway.

Been playing Skyrim for the last couple of weeks. Makes Guild Wars 2 RPG experience seem pitiful in comparison.

Glad you’ve found something you enjoy.

Telling people to leave if they don’t like it – not the best sales strategy.

The point is that everyone has things they like and dislike. Heck, I’m not a big fan of Scarlet myself. And there’s nothing wrong with requesting changes in content or direction.

But this thread isn’t feedback, it’s a temper tantrum. There are people who like the Scarlet storyline. The work takes months, suggesting they just throw it away is beyond ludicrous.

And yeah, the game is better off with fewer people who behave like angry toddlers when they don’t get what they want.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Guitarzero.8316

Guitarzero.8316

You have to think of Living Story as an expansion with a “big bag” as the centerpiece.

basically it started with:
- the story of zhaitan
- the living story of scarlet
- after the 21st will be “the next big bad”

and so on

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

And unless you can prove otherwise, you can’t say that Jornophelanthas is not in the majority either.

Should we continue this or do you realize how meaningless your addition was?

No, we most certainly don’t need to continue this. I stated what I did because your comment is completely overstated everywhere, and it held the same bias as the person you were admonishing. I will never understand how a person can chastise another person while he/she is doing the exact same thing. So what I was trying to convey was hypocrisy on your part.

This is just inane. I personally don’t have time to “create fanwork and fanart”, or any of those other things that you claim true fans of content do. I spend my time in game enjoying content, not being fanatical about it. I can also say that those in my guild are the same. We enjoy the LS but are not doing any of those things that you claim devout fans do. I think that is only reserved for over the top fans and fanatics, not people who simply enjoy what the LS brings.

You have to be purposefully dense that you took my statement as meaning that every single fan of the character/content would create fanworks. But out of a playerbase of 3.5 million, I expect at least some dedication to the LS in the manner of WoW or even GW1, if it were truly liked that is.
Please tell me you just made that argument for the sake of argument and not because you sincerely believe I implied that.

No I did not think that you were implying that everyone does it. I was implying that you think that most people are going to bother doing those things as it applies to purely temporary content. I believe that most people are not going to go crazy for something they know is going to be history in a very short time. Just because people like something does not mean they are going to dedicate fan created fiction and art for it.

Others will indeed like the content. What content do you propose that everyone, not just you, will like?

So you agree that we needed a shakeup after more than one year of only one side being catered too? Good.

Where did you get that from what I wrote? I did not agree that any side was catered too. I just said some would not like every bit of content put out there. And you accused me of being dense? They are not “catering” to anyone. They are not creating content that caters to people who like Scarlet. They are releasing content that they worked months to create. Way before people like you who do not like Scarlet had the chance to complain about. And they are completing the story line that they started. If they didn’t they would have as many complaints about not finishing it as they do about Scarlet still being around. Is there something you don’t understand about that?

And you have no basis to make a statement like “The general sentiment is clearly negative.” Unless you can poll all players, the burden of proof for saying something like that is on you.

Forums, comment sections and ingame chats don’t count even a tiny bit. Got it. You sound like every delusional game dev and apologist ever shortly before their downfall.

Of course they count. Only you don’t seem to grasp that your chats are not the only ones that happen in game or that forums are 90% filled with those that complain and only represent a small number of the total amount of players in a game. There are plenty of articles and studies about any forum being filled with those who are dissatisfied and negative over those who are happy. Google it.

Also, I see so many people on these forums who accuse other people of being “apologists” or “delusional” or “fan boys” or “Anet behind kissers” because they don’t agree with the complainers and feet stampers. Those kind of comments make me laugh. Almost as much as the doomsayers that claim inevitable downfall.

People that make such accusations simply cannot handle that their opinion is not fact. It comes from a place of arrogance that those people find it inconceivable when others may believe differently than they do. No one is an apologist or delusional dev because they enjoy what Anet is doing with the LS or because they don’t agree with you.

(edited by jheryn.8390)

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Devata.6589

Devata.6589

I am getting tired of people prescribing their own taste to all other players and the game developers.

I get it. You don’t like Scarlet. Thank you for your opinion. Goodbye.

Please stop pretending that your opinion entitles you to tell ArenaNet how to run their game. (Yes, Guild Wars 2 is their game, not yours.) Feel free to leave.

People payed for it so yeah that gives them the right to give there vision on the subject. They pay so they partly own.

And why do you think you are entitled to prescribing your own taste to all other players? Because thats what you are doing with this post.

BTW, ArenaNet is only the content creator. Not the owner. People here are owner of a copy of the game and telling the content creator what they dislike about the content.

No, ArenaNet is the sole owner of the game. We just own a license to play their content. In no way does possessing a GW2 account confer any right to dictate what the content should be. (Except to the extent that ArenaNet is willing to listen to suggestions.) You must be confusing game licenses with shares in the company.

What annoys me about these Scarlet-bashing posts is three things:

1. Some of the most vocal Scarlet-bashers (which happens to include the OP) claim that they are speaking for everyone when they proclaim their opinion. Let one thing be clear: I do not give permission to these people or anyone on this forum to speak on my behalf. My opinion is my own, thank you very much. I am not the only one in this thread who has complained about this.

2. Every single one of the Scarlet-bashers who starts a thread, believes that what they have to say has not been said before. Fifty anti-Scarlet threads later, I highly doubt that premise. Also, I am not overly impressed or convinced by arguments that consist of little more than the words “everyone knows”, “it is public knowledge”, or “obviously”. These are all variations of “I say that X is true. Therefore X is true. And therefore, everybody now agrees with me.” This is just plain bad argumentation.

3. This entire topic and all threads like it (beyond perhaps the first) is a gross overreaction. Scarlet is a fictional character, not a gross injustice or a violation of civil rights. She is not even a violation of a business agreement (because we paid to play a game with no say about the content). We are talking about a fictional character that may not be to everyone’s taste. Nobody should be fired over this. No planned releases should be changed over this. No civil wars should be started over this. Crying to the heavens about this issue and posting demands without offering any constructive feedback is not a mature way of stating your case. It certainly will not accomplish anything.

No, ArenaNet is the sole owner of the game. NCsoft you mean. Yes on paper but in the end, if you pay you have something to say. It’s that easy.

I personally don’t complain about scarlet (well only about he fractal one) but complain about the living story as total. However people paid for something and then they get this stuff. As you can see many many people (they almost never say everybody.. but your complain here is about the many post about this.. so that by itself proofs that many people complain about it so making the claim many people don;t like it seems a pretty accurate claim) don’t like it so if that is your measurement you can say is crappy content or a crappy story.

Well then you can expect the people who paid hoping to get good content to complain.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Draco.2806

Draco.2806

Telling people to leave if they don’t like it – not the best sales strategy.

I will have to agree with this as well. I feel like this is the reason WoW has lost half its sub base in a year. I feel like it is what happened to Rift, which I loved, but they didn’t listen to their players and the game suffered for it. To the point where it went F2P.

Ignoring the wants and needs of your customers is pretty much the worst thing a business can do, especially considering it’s ordinarily rare for people to voice these opinions in the first place – they have to be extracted by professional marketing teams instead.

It doesn’t make sense from a business perspective… unless what you’re doing is knowingly building your business model in such a way that it sacrifices customer satisfaction for the sake of larger profit. Which is what extortion-based F2P models do.

Guild Wars 2 is uncomfortably teetering on that edge right now: not quite going over, but it doesn’t really have any business standing there in the first place.

I certainly know that the sorts of demands being made here aren’t to be taken seriously, anyway.

That’s because you’re intent on violent dismissal of any opposing views.

I make a little joke and you bite my hand. Good job.

Glad you’ve found something you enjoy.

No, no, I kid. People who complain on forums about the shortcomings of a game are just old grumps completely incapable of enjoying anything. You can’t enjoy a game that you know isn’t flawless, after all.

That was a joke too, by the way. Sarcasm.

The point is that everyone has things they like and dislike.

Which is why book and movie sales are so random. There are no movies liked by everyone, no books considered masterpieces, and no people drooling over Half-Life 3 like it was the rumored coming of Christ.

Hm. You know, sarcasm is starting to look like the most appropriate tone for this conversation.

But this thread isn’t feedback, it’s a temper tantrum.

There’s plenty of constructive feedback too.

But voicing a negative opinion is still valuable in itself, or at least it would be to developers who care about what people think about their work and would like to improve it.

The work takes months, suggesting they just throw it away is beyond ludicrous.

But it’s not.

Pressing on with a project that garners universally negative reception is what’s absurd. Every successful gaming studio knows how to put the brakes on unsuccessful projects.

And yeah, the game is better off with fewer people who behave like angry toddlers when they don’t get what they want.

Insulting the opposition will serve you very poorly. Ironic, by the way.

Only you don’t seem to grasp that your chats are not the only ones that happen in game or that forums are 90% filled with those that complain and only represent a small number of the total amount of players in a game.

That’s a very old Argument from Ignorance.

Just because we don’t know what most players think doesn’t mean they support your side of the argument. It just means we don’t know.

We only know what we hear people say, and the message is loud and clear: Scarlet needs to go.

(edited by Draco.2806)

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Qaelyn.7612

Qaelyn.7612

That’s because you’re intent on violent dismissal of any opposing views.

I think you’ve got that a bit backwards. In your first response to me you said “Since you enjoy an inferior version of the product, it’s best for all involved – including yourself – to dismiss your interests.”

So you either have difficulty remembering your own posts from a few minutes earlier, or you’re trolling.

But it’s not.

But it is. Because it’s utterly disrespectful to the team doing the work and to those looking forward to it. And because it’s simply not going to happen.

Pressing on with a project that garners universally negative reception is what’s absurd.

Good thing that we don’t here have a situation with “universally negative reception”, regardless of the fact that some people grossly overvalue the significance of their personal viewpoints.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

That’s because you’re intent on violent dismissal of any opposing views.

I think you’ve got that a bit backwards. In your first response to me you said “Since you enjoy an inferior version of the product, it’s best for all involved – including yourself – to dismiss your interests.”

So you either have difficulty remembering your own posts from a few minutes earlier, or you’re trolling.

But it’s not.

But it is. Because it’s utterly disrespectful to the team doing the work and to those looking forward to it. And because it’s simply not going to happen.

Pressing on with a project that garners universally negative reception is what’s absurd.

Good thing that we don’t here have a situation with “universally negative reception”, regardless of the fact that some people grossly overvalue the significance of their personal viewpoints.

But…by every metric it has been a universally negative reception. Every. Single. Metric. In game, forums, people I have talked to in TS…it’s a pretty universally reviled thing. This is just what I have observed, which is the only metric we have because we have no other way to measure peoples enjoyment or displeasure beyond what we read and hear.

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

Only you don’t seem to grasp that your chats are not the only ones that happen in game or that forums are 90% filled with those that complain and only represent a small number of the total amount of players in a game.

That’s a very old Argument from Ignorance.

Just because we don’t know what most players think doesn’t mean they support your side of the argument. It just means we don’t know.

We only know what we hear people say, and the message is loud and clear: Scarlet needs to go.

Where did I say that players support my side of the argument. I said that no one can claim to know anything without a polling of the entire player base. So anyone, which I am not one who did, cannot claim that they know what “most people feel.” And since I am included in the proverbial “we”, we don’t all hear the same thing. I know plenty who like the current LS with Scarlet. Again you are generalizing for the community which is a true Argument from Ignorance..

You only hear what you want to hear. As far as what I said being an Argument from Ignorance., you obviously only read what you wanted to read because I said nothing of what you accused me of. That is a true Argument from Ignorance.. Did you actually read the article attached to your link? I don’t think you did.

Thank you for your link that I also got to use for you. Here are some more for you:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jul/24/internet-anonymity-trolling-tim-adams
http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/off-topic/314392-negativity-internet-forums-gamers-whiny.html
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/forums-are-virtually-always-for-negativity.76808/

(edited by jheryn.8390)

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

Only you don’t seem to grasp that your chats are not the only ones that happen in game or that forums are 90% filled with those that complain and only represent a small number of the total amount of players in a game.

That’s a very old Argument from Ignorance.

Just because we don’t know what most players think doesn’t mean they support your side of the argument. It just means we don’t know.

We only know what we hear people say, and the message is loud and clear: Scarlet needs to go.

Where did I say that players support my side of the argument. I said that no one can claim to know anything without a polling of the entire player base. So anyone, which I am not one who did, cannot claim that they know what “most people feel.” And since I am included in the proverbial “we”, we don’t all hear the same thing. I know plenty who like the current LS with Scarlet. Again you are generalizing for the community which is a true Argument from Ignorance..

You only hear what you want to hear. As far as what I said being an Argument from Ignorance., you obviously only read what you wanted to read because I said nothing of what you accused me of. That is a true Argument from Ignorance.. Did you actually read the article attached to your link? I don’t think you did.

Thank you for your link that I also got to use for you. Here are some for you:
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/jul/24/internet-anonymity-trolling-tim-adams
http://forums.riftgame.com/general-discussions/off-topic/314392-negativity-internet-forums-gamers-whiny.html
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/forums-are-virtually-always-for-negativity.76808/

“I don’t like what you say so you must be trolling.”

proceeds to link to threads that having nothing to do with a topic of gw2

/facepalm

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

I haven’t read all the replies to this, but I am gonna chime in and say Scarlet does have a back story. You just judged a book by its cover so to speak and didn’t bother to read it.

So since you don’t really give a crap about the story , why are you complaining?

Because it continues to take up space. An increasing amount of space.

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Qaelyn.7612

Qaelyn.7612

But…by every metric it has been a universally negative reception. Every. Single. Metric. In game, forums, people I have talked to in TS…it’s a pretty universally reviled thing. This is just what I have observed, which is the only metric we have because we have no other way to measure peoples enjoyment or displeasure beyond what we read and hear.

Some of it’s confirmation bias. That said, I can believe more people dislike the Scarlet storyline than like it.

But it’s basically going to be over soon. I’m not arguing that Scarlet is great and that Arenanet should keep her around for 5 more years. I’m just saying that at this point the die is cast, and we should wait and see how it turns out.

And that asking a company to just trash a ton of work already completed is selfish and impractical.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

SNIP
“I don’t like what you say so you must be trolling.”

proceeds to link to threads that having nothing to do with a topic of gw2

/facepalm

My links deal with the fact that forums in general and including this one, are filled with negativity and complaints, not compliments and positive feedback. So those links very much apply to these forums and most of those posting in them.

For this one in specific, many comments are stating that Scarlet is hated because that is what people are posting here and are complaining about in chat in game. Yet they completely ignore or berate posts that claim to like Scarlet or are blind to chat in game that like her. I see both.

Where did I say I didn’t like what he said or accuse him of trolling? I said nothing of the kind. Just because I don’t agree with what he wrote doesn’t mean I don’t think he has the right to say it or you for that matter. But I also have the right to disagree with him and what he thinks.

So to comment on what you said about me:

“I’ll misinterpret what you say so I can look clever.”

Writes sentence about conceived wrong

/rolls eyes.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Draco.2806

Draco.2806

I think you’ve got that a bit backwards. In your first response to me you said “Since you enjoy an inferior version of the product, it’s best for all involved – including yourself – to dismiss your interests.”

I was talking about ANet dismissing your approval of a failed project for the good of everyone involved, I wasn’t personally dismissing your concern, opinions, preferences, or what good you see in it.

I can see how it can be a bit confusing. Rather complex issue.

So you either have difficulty remembering your own posts from a few minutes earlier, or you’re trolling.

And you have difficulty continuing this conversation without insults.

Because it’s utterly disrespectful to the team doing the work and to those looking forward to it. And because it’s simply not going to happen.

Maybe you’ve missed the dozen or so posts explaining how and why good gaming companies are always ready to cut down a failed project in response to player feedback, or maybe you’re just intent on keeping a closed mind on the issue.

Good thing that we don’t here have a situation with “universally negative reception”

But we do. This thread among hundreds of others standing as proof for all to see.

I guess this is where you fall back on argument from ignorance saying you can’t judge all players by people who post on forums, and then I direct you back to the previous comment that has a neat link explaining where, why and how it’s a wrong thing to say.

We’ve been over that.

But…by every metric it has been a universally negative reception. Every. Single. Metric. In game, forums, people I have talked to in TS…it’s a pretty universally reviled thing.


I said that no one can claim to know anything without a polling of the entire player base.

Oh, okay. Your posts gave the impression otherwise. I can agree with that.

But what’s the argument then? That ANet shouldn’t do anything because we don’t know anyway? That wouldn’t be right, because the response they do have is universally negative.

Again you are generalizing for the community which is a true Argument from Ignorance..

At least you could have picked a fallacy with “generalization” in its name. Just read the article, there are lots of things universally recognizes as fallacies…

And that’s not it. Saying the reception of it has been negative because we can easily see the reception of its has been negative isn’t much of a fallacy. It’s an ordinary observation. You’re on the defensive here if you want to claim it’s not representative of the larger playerbase.

People hate Scarlet. People post about hating Scarlet. That’s how it goes.

Thank you for your link that I also got to use for you. Here are some more for you…

What’s the relevance here?

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

SNIP
“I don’t like what you say so you must be trolling.”

proceeds to link to threads that having nothing to do with a topic of gw2

/facepalm

My links deal with the fact that forums in general and including this one, are filled with negativity and complaints, not compliments and positive feedback. So those links very much apply to these forums and most of those posting in them.

For this one in specific, many comments are stating that Scarlet is hated because that is what people are posting here and are complaining about in chat in game. Yet they completely ignore or berate posts that claim to like Scarlet or are blind to chat in game that like her. I see both.

Where did I say I didn’t like what he said or accuse him of trolling? I said nothing of the kind. Just because I don’t agree with what he wrote doesn’t mean I don’t think he has the right to say it or you for that matter. But I also have the right to disagree with him and what he thinks.

So to comment on what you said about me:

“I’ll misinterpret what you say so I can look clever.”

Writes sentence about conceived wrong

/rolls eyes.

So defensive. What are you trying to prove? You linked threads that had no bearing on whether or not Scarlet is a bad character or not. It’s just links about trolling on video game forums for companies that have notoriously bad customer support, so their views on dealing with customers are wrong anyway.

Do you really want to use a SoE article to reinforce a point when they never listened to their players at any point?

I’m trying to save you from embarrassment but you are making it really hard through ignorance.

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Qaelyn.7612

Qaelyn.7612

Ironically, the more that people work themselves into a lather over Scarlet, I think the more arguably successful the concept is.

I do find it consistently amusing that anyone actually thinks a company would toss millions of dollars worth of development effort on the scrap pile just because they don’t think they want it — without even knowing what it is. That takes a rather incredible level of self-absorption.

But then, that’s why forum feedback has to be taken with a grain of salt. More like a big chunk, actually.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

Ironically, the more that people work themselves into a lather over Scarlet, I think the more arguably successful the concept is.

God save us from “there is no such thing as bad publicity” hacks.

I do find it consistently amusing that anyone actually thinks a company would toss millions of dollars worth of development effort on the scrap pile just because they don’t want it. That takes a rather incredible level of self-absorption.

I think it’s more tragic to have such poor internal concept review/checking that millions of dollars were spent actualizing such a manifest piece of trash.

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: Draco.2806

Draco.2806

Ironically, the more that people work themselves into a lather over Scarlet, I think the more arguably successful the concept is.

Well, if Scarlet’s concept was to throw people off by introducing a Power Rangers villain so pathetic, childish and shallow that they would lose any faith in GW2’s story ever being good…

If someone approaches you and says “Your story is terrible. You’re a bad writer. Your characters are shallow and your plot is non-existent. I hated it.” your response shouldn’t be "Yay! I’m a good writer! "

How do you even come to that conclusion.

I do find it consistently amusing that anyone actually thinks a company would toss millions of dollars worth of development effort on the scrap pile just because they don’t think they want it

Millions of dollars… Hahaha…

Really though, your efforts to convince us that developers can’t be asked to fix their own mistakes will always fall on deaf ears.

But then, that’s why forum feedback has to be taken with a grain of salt.

Or, in this case, dismissed entirely along with negative opinions of the majority of your players. Because that’s what good developers do.

Unless they open up forum threads asking for player feedback which… oh wait.


I think it’s more tragic to have such poor internal concept review/checking that millions of dollars were spent actualizing such a manifest piece of trash.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

in Guild Wars 2 Discussion

Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

I said that no one can claim to know anything without a polling of the entire player base.

Oh, okay. Your posts gave the impression otherwise. I can agree with that.

That was never my intent if that is the way I came across. My point is that so many of these post claim “The majority of players hate Scarlet”. They can’t make that claim. They don’t have the evidence for that. It may in fact be true, but they can’t seriously make such claims.

But what’s the argument then? That ANet shouldn’t do anything because we don’t know anyway? That wouldn’t be right, because the response they do have is universally negative.

To answer this question and the one about the relevance of the links at once. Forums are filled with those who complain not those who are content or happy. Those links point that fact out. And the argument is that the majority of responses on the forums don’t like Scarlet which is no surprise since the majority of responses on most threads are ones of complaining and negativity. They whole game can’t be awful or no one would be playing at all. It is very challenging to find threads where people are not complaining about something.

So why should ANet do anything at all? If you took the entire population of posters on the forums and compared that to the entire population of the game base, we are but a small, minute fraction. Again, people are much more vocal when they have something they don’t like as compared to those who are mostly quiet when they are satisfied. Taking that into consideration, why should ANet throw away months of development because forum posters, which represent a small fraction of the player base, don’t like Scarlet. That is cost ineffective.

Again you are generalizing for the community which is a true Argument from Ignorance..

At least you could have picked a fallacy with “generalization” in its name. Just read the article, there are lots of things universally recognizes as fallacies…

And that’s not it. Saying the reception of it has been negative because we can easily see the reception of its has been negative isn’t much of a fallacy. It’s an ordinary observation. You’re on the defensive here if you want to claim it’s not representative of the larger playerbase.

People hate Scarlet. People post about hating Scarlet. That’s how it goes.

That is just it, I did read the article, and it clearly states that arguments from ignorance are made when they have no clear basis. Claiming that the majority of players hate Scarlet because of what is said on the forums is not basis. It is only a very small portion of the GW2 community. In order to believe that “people hate scarlet” as a majority basis, you have to have majority consensus.

Again, forums of all types are representatives of dissatisfaction not contentment. Those who are content generally do not post their happiness. As I said to you before, and I’ll repeat, maybe the majority do hate Scarlet. Maybe they do not. Posts here on the forum are not basis for either assumption. Please stop saying that I am claiming that hating Scarlet is not representative of the player base. I don’t know if it is or not. You are the one making claims about the player base, not me.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: jheryn.8390

jheryn.8390

So defensive. What are you trying to prove? You linked threads that had no bearing on whether or not Scarlet is a bad character or not. It’s just links about trolling on video game forums for companies that have notoriously bad customer support, so their views on dealing with customers are wrong anyway.

Do you really want to use a SoE article to reinforce a point when they never listened to their players at any point?

I’m trying to save you from embarrassment but you are making it really hard through ignorance.

I’m not defensive, I’m just tired of people making claims they have no basis for making. I’m also tired of people on these forums thinking that all the negativity is representative of everyone that plays the games.

As far as the articles go, they were points of generality. People posting in forums are in most part negative. That was all. I really don’t care if devs from other games listened to people or not.

As far as your “altruistic” intentions concerning my welfare: ROTFL. You think people would ever believe that to be true when you ended your post with a blatantly obvious passive-aggressive statement? The ignorance is not mine.

(edited by jheryn.8390)

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Qaelyn.7612

Qaelyn.7612

If someone approaches you and says “Your story is terrible. You’re a bad writer. Your characters are shallow and your plot is non-existent. I hated it.” your response shouldn’t be "Yay! I’m a good writer! "

There’s not a writer in existence who doesn’t have people telling him or her that he or she is a bad writer because the complainers “hated” the work and think that their personal viewpoints are more important than anyone else’s.

Those people are usually and quite correctly ignored. Because there’s a difference between constructive feedback and telling someone they should take their hard work and put it in the trash.

As it happens, I’m a writer myself. I take feedback seriously. I put childish flaming from self-absorbed know-it-alls about how bad my writing is in the recycle bin.

Posts like the one leading off this thread belong in the recycle bin, as do posts like yours declaring that only your views matter.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Scourge.4317

Scourge.4317

because there is no real significance of scarlet to the game other than they chose to use her they could have easily just had a rouge tengu rampaging and killing things but the tengu themselves couldnt bring it down and needed help but they chose that god awful bush that needs to be pruned and turned to mulch

Why would the Tengu do anything like that? Not even a rogue Tengu would do something as big as what Scarlet is doing.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Scourge.4317

Scourge.4317

Getting tired of threads like this. The moment Anet mentions Scarlet everyone feels they need to make a thread laying out in a carefully thought out post saying why they hate her. We get it. Anet gets it. Scarlet wasn’t a particularly well written character for whatever reason.

What Anet has done in the announcement the OP is adamantly calling out is the light at the end of the tunnel everyone else is calling for. The problem the OP can’t live with (and I can’t imagine why – this is a game after all) is that it’s going to take four more updates.

I don’t care for Scarlet much like the rest of us however I’m pleased to know there’s a light up ahead and it’s approaching fast.

You’re getting sick of threads like this & people are already sick of Scarlet. We get it, Anet loves Sylvari & overpowered fan-fic Lolitas, yes. I’m sorry, but as long as something dumb is in the game, people should be free to moan & complain. If it’s coming all that fast then you shouldn’t mind a few more months of people explaining in painful detail why she’s beyond repair.

I don’t want a “light at the end of the tunnel” for excruciating stories & characters, I want to hear that that something good is coming. I want to hear that Tengu are being worked on, I want to hear that housing, a real cosmetics system, guild halls, capes, Cantha.. all that stuff.. instead.. “Hey! So Scarlet is gonna be around for quite a bit longer! We know she’s awful & people would rather hear that Tengu & Cantha are upcoming but we love her so, whatever!”

So much Elonian Wine in this thread. Its only 4 more updates. And honestly things are starting to get very interesting if you’ve been paying attention. I kinda think people are just hating Scarlet now because its the cool thing to do. Hell I’ve seen brand new players hop on the band wagon. Two months worth of updates and shes all wrapped up yea?

Maybe she’s actually awful? I guess that’s just not possible. People who don’t like her (even though it’s such a huge amount) they must be wrong because… why exactly? like I said before.. some people think JarJar binks is a great character too.

People are posting as if their opinion about scarlet is the only one that matters and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t know what good story telling is or don’t know any better. Just kitten all the people who actually enjoy it because obviously they don’t know any better. Arenanet should just listen to me me me and scrap the whole project because i hate Scarlet!!11!

That’s basically what i see in this thread (that should be in the suggestions forum) and a few others.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Zaleta.1567

Zaleta.1567

I like Scarlet, I crave Scarlet, I dream of Scarlet, scarlet needs to stay!!! more scarlet plz!!! lol

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Marax.4938

Marax.4938

It’s great to see so many people being passionate about the games Living Story. It shows people care and that Anet is certainly doing a lot of good things with Guild Wars 2.

I personally like Scarlet Briar for the most part. What we do need to keep in mind, I think, is that Guild Wars 2 will be around for a long while and many stories will come and go. A lot of stories some people utterly dislike and some people will truly love.

We all like our stories differently and while Scarlet Briar is a character who may not satisfy everyone it is safe to say that she is also liked by people. Maybe next year it will be the other way around, people who like Scarlet argueing with people who like the new villain.

We can voice our likes and dislikes and that’s fine but do realize there is a team of people who worked kitten these living stories and on creating Scarlet. Some of you could really learn how to give some humane feedback instead of demanding this, demanding that and being so volatile becuase someones created villain doesn’t suit your particular taste.

Tough it up, new stories will come. No story is the same as the other. Scarlet is one of a kind. You are gauranteed different enemies in the future so try to not get too bothered by one specific Living Story character you happen to dislike.

Anyhow I hope the future living stories will satisfy you. We all just want to have fun and have the best intentions

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Captain Seyo.4285

Captain Seyo.4285

Update 1. Scarlet gets captured by Pact. They interrogate her by letting PC hit her again and again with what ever torture they deem fit.

Update 2. Scarlet escapes only to be a final boss battle resulting in her falling into a wood chipper.

Update 3 Everyone gets a free salad unless you are sylvari. They just sit back and watch in disgust.

Update 4. Rinse and Repeat with Treaherne.

Scarlet needs to go. Now.

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Posted by: Aeonblade.8709

Aeonblade.8709

Update 1. Scarlet gets captured by Pact. They interrogate her by letting PC hit her again and again with what ever torture they deem fit.

Update 2. Scarlet escapes only to be a final boss battle resulting in her falling into a wood chipper.

Update 3 Everyone gets a free salad unless you are sylvari. They just sit back and watch in disgust.

Update 4. Rinse and Repeat with Treaherne.

Oh man, I would start paying attention to the LS again!

Anarai Aeonblade [GASM] – Guardian – DB
RIP my fair Engi and Ranger, you will be missed.