Guild Wars 2

LFG is absolutely filled with people selling SAB both in normal and Tribulation mode.

There are plenty of people arguing the legality of it in game with strong camps for and against.

Unless I’ve missed it elsewhere, can we please get an official response from Arenanet specifically on whether this is a legal or a bannable offence?

People always use money in place of skill, that song is as old as time.

Since there’s a notice when you enter Tribulation mode that says (basically) “You will not be able to rejoin a party if you are disconnected from the instance”, it’s pretty safe to assume that the people exploiting the tiny crack in the system are, indeed, exploiting.

Thanks for the heads-up!

It’s 100% an exploit, I know because I posted a bug report on it to the bug report forum and it was removed due to discussing an exploit.
I really hope they’re harsh on this one , they’ve been pretty lax about people abusing over the past few incidents. Or they should disable SAB now to minimise damage.

Not sure that you’ll get an official response about it this festival season. It’s also very unlikely that even if it is unintended, we won’t see a patch (or any bans or other repercussions) this SAB season.

If Anet doesn’t intend players to be able to sell the tribulation paths via LFG, it will most likely be fixed for subsequent years, without official comment from Anet. It’s fairly clear to me that they didn’t intend for players to be able to buy their way through the trib paths, specifically because of the force-kick upon joining a match in progress. It even explicitly states that this should not be possible before you enter any zone in tribulation mode. The normal paths, however, aren’t really much of an issue, and I don’t think anyone really cares if you ferry people to the end of a normal zone. You can join in progress and leave to your heart’s content. Working as intended.

That being said, I do think it’s disappointing that players are taking advantage of what many of us view as an exploit to sell the trib coins. I don’t think players should take Anet’s silence on this as approval or acceptance of the method. Would love to see an official response but I doubt it’ll happen this year.

I am sure they did not mean for people to be able to sell Tribulation, but why the radio silence on whether they will accept something eventhough they did not intend for it to be possible, or whether they will actively ban people for it. That’s not an unfair question to ask, is it?

Last one was deleted, so expect the same with this post

Oh, not an unfair question at all. I think we’d love to hear an official response to this. I’d also like to know whether or not we should be reporting those players taking advantage of this exploit as “LFG System Abuse.” That’s what I’ve been doing as I come across them, but if I’m in the wrong here, could someone from Anet let me (and the rest of us) know?

To me it is more about that Arenanet is not being open about whether they intend to effectively reward those people who throw caution to the wind (and just buy and sell) and effectively make suckers of those who are trying to be honest and careful with their accounts.

The official line is that you are allowed to sell dungeon runs and services so it is legit, even if you don’t agree with it.

It is not legit to sell, for example, shovels for the guild hall stuff.

There is an official thread about it somewhere.

I am not sure I agree with you DoctorDing, as Gaile has also said it is not legal to sell access portals. You’re also not allowed to sell home instances, because the group is not actually contributing anything for their rewards. How is joining a party for 4 seconds, without even touching the boss any different?

Besides, if that is the case why don’t they just SAY so? It would be so simple.

Back in my day we paid for KEI and SOW and hired farmers and were glad to!

This should not be allowed, it’s clearly exploiting a bug in the game. People are not supposed to get into an existing tribulation mode instance, it kicks people out for a reason. It’s also lame that people can get skins that actually require some skill by buying runs and getting tokens with this bug.

Firedancer.8350:

Besides, if that is the case why don’t they just SAY so? It would be so simple.

They have said, if you bother to go and find the thread.

I don’t mind paying, to be honest, but not at the expense of having my account banned.

But because Arenanet will for whatever reason they see fit not tell us what their stance is, I will have a proverbial tummy ache either way… do I buy but risk my account or watch others cheerfully buy and risk being the sucker?

DoctorDing.5890:

Firedancer.8350:

Besides, if that is the case why don’t they just SAY so? It would be so simple.

They have said, if you bother to go and find the thread.

I apologize for being thick then, but I can’t find anything about selling SAB Tribulation :-S

Firedancer.8350:

I don’t mind paying, to be honest, but not at the expense of having my account banned.

But because Arenanet will for whatever reason they see fit not tell us what their stance is, I will have a proverbial tummy ache either way… do I buy but risk my account or watch others cheerfully buy and risk being the sucker?

Paying for dungeon runs, fractal runs, and even raid runs is perfectly allowed. None of those require exploiting a bug in order to do something you’re not supposed to be able to do. Selling SAB Tribulation runs DOES require exploiting a bug to do it; thus, you should be smart and avoid doing it (in my opinion).

Rose, I agree with you for the moment and I won’t touch the sales, even though it frustrates me as I try to muddle my way through the W2 Tribulations.

I just marvel at the silence from Arenanet’s side… I really do. To my mind it is not the way you treat people, you’re open honest and upfront… you don’t leave them hanging.

Even if it’s just a game with ones and zeroes.

But.. that’s me.

RoseofGilead.8907:

Firedancer.8350:

I don’t mind paying, to be honest, but not at the expense of having my account banned.

But because Arenanet will for whatever reason they see fit not tell us what their stance is, I will have a proverbial tummy ache either way… do I buy but risk my account or watch others cheerfully buy and risk being the sucker?

Paying for dungeon runs, fractal runs, and even raid runs is perfectly allowed. None of those require exploiting a bug in order to do something you’re not supposed to be able to do. Selling SAB Tribulation runs DOES require exploiting a bug to do it; thus, you should be smart and avoid doing it (in my opinion).

This is basically my thought as well. You are warned at the start that players will be unable to join your instance. If it was intended, players would be allowed to hop in and out, not have to exploit a small window of opportunity.

It’s a shame- this was one of the rare pieces of content where having a skin meant you achieved something. If Anet do say something, it will probably be along the lines of, “it isn’t intended but fixing it might break the event and we would like you to enjoy the time you have left.”

Honestly, I still think the tribulation skins represent an earned achievement. If you buy your way through the paths and get the tokens at a high gold cost, that’s on you, but I think it’s pretty fair to say that most of the folks who have the King Toad or Storm Wizard skins unlocked have struggled and stumbled their way through the trib paths like the rest of us. Those paths are hard, and as I’m a huge fan of SAB, whenever I see someone sporting the telltale yellow or green skins, I’m impressed.

If you look at the price that people are charging for these LFG taxis, you’ll soon understand that it would cost upwards of 600-800 gold to finish just one of the collections. I don’t think the vast majority of players have that kind of gold on hand, and most of those that do probably aren’t too keen on shelling it all out for a few skins they could earn on their own.

Or maybe I’m being overly optimistic. Personally, I do still see the skins as a sign of prestige, though.

Oh I finished my green collection, chuffed as can be!

W2z1 and z2 are ok, but w2z3… pfff… with a little bit of lag that can be completely infuriating.

The net caches things for a long time.

I just found the thread in question (that was made a day ago)but cannot find any official stance on this issue.

• edit- discussion on Reddit also seems to be this is questionable

Siobhan.5273:

I just found the thread in question (that was made a day ago)but cannot find any official stance on this issue.

That’s because it didn’t happen the last time SAB was in the game.

RoseofGilead.8907:

I just found the thread in question (that was made a day ago)but cannot find any official stance on this issue.

Oh, I know, I mean I’m looking now and I can’t find any current topic on the issue that hasn’t been removed and isn’t cached.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Alright, it’s about time I commented on this.

As of now we don’t have a problem with players doing this. While the late join is unintended, if players want to pay for this service, that’s fine. It does trivialize the skins some, but this isn’t any different than the skins from purchasing a raid run or a dungeon run (which we also are ok with). As long as the transaction is completed and players are getting what they paid for, fine.

However, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t going to fix this. A fix is in the works right now, and that fix may happen before SAB closes or be there for the next time the festival opens.

Thank you for the official word on this.

Thanks for the official comment, Chris! We appreciate it.

Siobhan.5273:

RoseofGilead.8907:

I just found the thread in question (that was made a day ago)but cannot find any official stance on this issue.

Oh, I know, I mean I’m looking now and I can’t find any current topic on the issue that hasn’t been removed and isn’t cached.

Stickied at the top of general discussion: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first

Players may use the tool to sell a spot in a group, but they may not use it to sell or trade items or for any other unintended purposes.

So basically, yes. It’s legal to sell runs for dungeons and other content that requires a party. Although it’s “buyer beware”.

However, https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Policy-on-the-LFG-Tool/first#post4771535 It is not OK to advertise in LFG for access portals (such as taking people to gather from your home instance nodes) or guild recruiting.

Really appreciate the official word on this Chris!

Chris Cleary.8017:

Alright, it’s about time I commented on this.

As of now we don’t have a problem with players doing this.While the late join is unintended, if players want to pay for this service, that’s fine. It does trivialize the skins some, but this isn’t any different than the skins from purchasing a raid run or a dungeon run (which we also are ok with). As long as the transaction is completed and players are getting what they paid for, fine.

However, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t going to fix this. A fix is in the works right now, and that fix may happen before SAB closes or be there for the next time the festival opens.

Thanks for the clarification, not that I was buying or selling, but clarity is a good thing for those looking for it.

Chris Cleary.8017:

It does trivialize the skins some, but this isn’t any different than the skins from purchasing a raid run or a dungeon run (which we also are ok with).

I disagree, as there is a fundamental difference. For raids and dungeons, they are designed to be played with others, and as such there are expectations that some players with lesser performance can be compensated for.

For SAB Tribulation, there is no such compensation; and as such, this greatly cheapens the skins, and in addition, Moto’s infusions.

As aforementioned, SAB is now reoccurring – so the skins will continue to be available for those who wish to pursue it. So in my opinion, the bug should be fixed ASAP in order to preserve the value of the skins.

But aren’t people exploiting to sell it?
So they are ok with they exploiting them to sell them?

Before you join it specifically says no one can join after you go in so how are people joining in after the seller is in?

Im confuse, because when people were exploiting dungeons like Arah and AC they were not ok with that and ban people cause of that and now they are OKAY.

I saw it on Reddit how its done.
Basically you can enter other person’s SAB in the end timer.
What tells me it is not intended since in the beginning it clearly says people can’t join you after you enter in the world of SAB.

Yes, its an Anet error code, but I remember that anet banned people for a lot less before.
- The WvW ban wave in the beginning. When people were putting WvW weapons on the Mystic Forge to do money and abusing that.
- The going through/jumping walls to do dungeons to them selling them.
- Bugging mobs/npc’s, like doing AC P1 and P2 at the same time.

For me this is an exploit like any other one I mention and should be treated as equal, not getting special treatment cause its hard content and people are crying cause they cant doing it and can’t have what they what cause of that.

Hell, If it wasn’t for Dulfy (and my patient) I couldn’t do it too.
Now I can speed run Tribulation mode at ease and I have fun.

I know how frustrating it is in the beginning but when you finish it its awesome.
People should experience that.

I understand that this requires a lot a time from new players and that can be one of the reasons people buy the runs.
Maybe they dont have time, or they dont have anyone to do with, but 2 or 3 years ago some people didnt had time too or friends to play with and they did it. Or quit.

The point is, this is an exploit, just because its temporary content and hard shouldn’t have special treatment.

It’s amazing how lax the policy on exploits is when its not one that impacts the economy, and thus gem2gold sales.

Tribulation mode is earned huh? How many of you did it with a guide?
I see no problem with this at all.

SRoode.7318:

Tribulation mode is earned huh? How many of you did it with a guide?
I see no problem with this at all.

Learning via a guide = literally having someone else do 100% of the work now?

lulwut?

I think ArenaNet should change their policy on selling runs for raids and other multi-player content.

As pointed out, at least some people selling runs for SAB are using an exploit. It really makes me wonder about people selling runs for raids.

Raids were meant for players to work together to complete. The rewards are devalued for those who actually do go through the whole thing because some players are joining in and doing little to nothing to get the same rewards and just paying someone else to do the work for them.

It completely devalues the game as a whole when people aren’t playing it how it was meant to be played. What’s the point of raids, dungeons, SAB, or really anything in the game, if people are allowed to just pay someone else to do all the work for them? It really isn’t fair for those of us who actually do things the hard way.

SRoode.7318:

Tribulation mode is earned huh? How many of you did it with a guide?
I see no problem with this at all.

Yea, cause LEARNING how to do stuff to do it YOURSELF its bad.
Like, going to school to LEARN stuff to PRACTICE in the future is bad right?

Yea, lets compare this with school terms.
Learn = learning with a guide
Cheat = exploiting

You have a test, you LEARN the stuff and get an A+.
Friend has the same test, he CHEATS and gets an A+

Tell me how is that fair.

If you were in school the cheat friend would get reprehended by his action, like in a game if you exploit you get suspended or banned.

I’m no saint but I believe that everyone should be treated has equal, if you do X and its bad, and your friend does X and its also bad you two should get the same consequences.

Charrbeque.8729:

So basically, yes. It’s legal to sell runs for dungeons and other content that requires a party. Although it’s “buyer beware”.

What he said is stronger than “buyer beware”:

Chris Cleary.8017:

As long as the transaction is completed and players are getting what they paid for, fine.

Inappropriate analogy. The point of a puzzle is to figure it out, not to have others figure it out for you and just follow their instructions.

But we’re long past the point where you can design puzzles on the assumption that people haven’t been told how to do it, so that’s why Tribulation mode is technically difficult, not intellectually difficult.

Ironically, exams are one of the best techniques for weeding out those who can’t solve problems they haven’t encountered before.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Alright, it’s about time I commented on this.

As of now we don’t have a problem with players doing this. While the late join is unintended, if players want to pay for this service, that’s fine. It does trivialize the skins some, but this isn’t any different than the skins from purchasing a raid run or a dungeon run (which we also are ok with). As long as the transaction is completed and players are getting what they paid for, fine.

However, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t going to fix this. A fix is in the works right now, and that fix may happen before SAB closes or be there for the next time the festival opens.

Okay, so basically getting stuff from exploit is… fine? Sorry it’s not like raids or dungeons here.

But, seriously, this is just gold. This game is just all about being rich and get what you want?

If you’re gonna fix it and you don’t want to use the ban hammer, then allow players to join tribulation mode whenever they want, it will not be fair for players that want to “buy” it later. Do it to the end, push the knife all the way. Sigh…

SRoode.7318:

Tribulation mode is earned huh? How many of you did it with a guide?
I see no problem with this at all.

Nice try.

With a guide you need to : learn it, do the stuff, practice. And you have to do it in order to get the rewards.

If you don’t do it yourself, you : don’t learn, don’t do the stuff, don’t practice. And you don’t need it. You get same rewards without efforts.

Your argument is : invalid. Try again.

Ben K.7329:

Inappropriate analogy. The point of a puzzle is to figure it out, not to have others figure it out for you and just follow their instructions.

But we’re long past the point where you can design puzzles on the assumption that people haven’t been told how to do it, so that’s why Tribulation mode is technically difficult, not intellectually difficult.

Ironically, exams are one of the best techniques for weeding out those who can’t solve problems they haven’t encountered before.

It might not be the right analogy but it was the closes i could found.

I agree that, today, in games, people (me included) reach out more for guides, not all people but most.

Dulfy has been a valuable source for many players in trouble but she just provided the instructions, the skill/practice is on us.
Thus the school analogy, you study the guide, then put it in practice.

But my comment was for people to try to realize that an exploit is an exploit, people shouldn’t get a “Free Pass” for doing, what it actually is, an exploit.

Ben K.7329:

Inappropriate analogy. The point of a puzzle is to figure it out, not to have others figure it out for you and just follow their instructions.

But we’re long past the point where you can design puzzles on the assumption that people haven’t been told how to do it, so that’s why Tribulation mode is technically difficult, not intellectually difficult.

Ironically, exams are one of the best techniques for weeding out those who can’t solve problems they haven’t encountered before.

The guide will not magically do the stuff for you. Some players can’t do trib mode with a guide, because it actually need some practice.

On the other hand, players that buy runs don’t need to do anything, just wait & click like dumbs, and profit.

The analogy is 100% appropriate. You don’t learn stuff at school from the sky.

I see this as a good thing where players are helping players achieve. Where players are using their skills and abilities together and compensating each other. In the end, both parties are happy and successful. Much like how our entire civilization functions in real life.

What I see as a bad thing, is the elitist “buut… it’s my shiny” people trying to deny this from occurring. And, this is not just with SAB but, every time new content comes out. It’s utterly selfish behavior and should not be promoted in game as it is not in real life.

Thank you for clarifying Chris. Glad Anet see’s the common sense in allowing this.

whiteflower.9425:

Ben K.7329:

Inappropriate analogy. The point of a puzzle is to figure it out, not to have others figure it out for you and just follow their instructions.

But we’re long past the point where you can design puzzles on the assumption that people haven’t been told how to do it, so that’s why Tribulation mode is technically difficult, not intellectually difficult.

Ironically, exams are one of the best techniques for weeding out those who can’t solve problems they haven’t encountered before.

It might not be the right analogy but it was the closes i could found.

I agree that, today, in games, people (me included) reach out more for guides, not all people but most.

Dulfy has been a valuable source for many players in trouble but she just provided the instructions, the skill/practice is on us.
Thus the school analogy, you study the guide, then put it in practice.

But my comment was for people to try to realize that an exploit is an exploit, people shouldn’t get a “Free Pass” for doing, what it actually is, an exploit.

But it’s also true in real life. In general, when you don’t know how to cook something, you use a guide.
You have to follow guide and instructions for driver’s license.
In fact, people use guide/instructions almost all the time because it’s already done and don’t need to be discovered again. Despite the fact that we can improve/change it.

I don’t think your analogy was bad, a metaphor don’t need to be perfect if you just want to prove a point with same facts.

DeWolfe.2174:

I see this as a good thing where players are helping players achieve. Where players are using their skills and abilities together and compensating each other. In the end, both parties are happy and successful. Much like how our entire civilization functions in real life.

What I see as a bad thing, is the elitist “buut… it’s my shiny” people trying to deny this from occurring. And, this is not just with SAB but, every time new content comes out. It’s utterly selfish behavior and should not be promoted in game as it is not in real life.

Thank you for clarifying Chris. Glad Anet see’s the common sense in allowing this.

I think you don’t understand how the exploit works. In fact, as a player that did the run, you don’t help anything. As a player that buy runs, you don’t it with others players. You just click on your screen, get the rewards and… that’s all. You did nothing, you learn nothing. You just use your moneys and get the rewards.

Tell me where this is a good thing in regards to your arguments? Tell me where not to be agree with this, is selfish? Please explain me.

whiteflower.9425:

But aren’t people exploiting to sell it?

Basically. People aren’t supposed to be able to join in-progress instances, but it’ll let you join for a second, so you simply do that at the end to enjoy your free event rewards. The problem was putting the token as event rewards instead of having them in the daily chest.

It’s funny to see them allow the use of an exploit and allow the use of pet botting in the same day.

DeWolfe.2174:

I see this as a good thing where players are helping players achieve.

Achieve what? Obtaining a skin? The “achivement” is actually doing the content. That’s what the skins/auras are meant to represent.

It’s not supposed to be yet another vapid “durr look how rich I am in game guys!” cosmetic.

And we know this because you literally have to exploit a bug in the game to accomplish the sale.