Guild Wars 2

Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365:

Chris Cleary.8017:

…

However, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t going to fix this. A fix is in the works right now, and that fix may happen before SAB closes or be there for the next time the festival opens.

Return of SAB confirmed

It was confirmed in the write-up about SAB when it went in last week.

Ben K.7329:

But we’re long past the point where you can design puzzles on the assumption that people haven’t been told how to do it, so that’s why Tribulation mode is technically difficult, not intellectually difficult.

Ironically, exams are one of the best techniques for weeding out those who can’t solve problems they haven’t encountered before.

It would be nice if ANet could look in to creating some procedurally-generated puzzles. That way the solution method might be learnable, but the actual solution wouldn’t be predetermined.

it’s just sad to see that you seem to be better off in my case few 100’s of golds if you just use an exploit as soon as it appears since if enough people use it they will say it’s ok anyway….

I am not sure I like this new, it’s an exploit but we are okay with it because we can’t fix it quickly and/or can not remove the rewards from the accounts that participate, policy you are pioneering here ArenaNet.

You are basically redefining the term exploit for this one instance as it best suits you. I hope you know what you are doing… I am one of those players that will probably never do Tribulation mode and subsequently that is bunch of skins I was never going to get. Frankly though, I did not mind because I knew those skins had something to them that no other skin in this game had.

That was a good thing, too bad you are just writing it off so easily.

Disappointing to have all my effort trivialized but oh well. There’s a lot of things in life to be disappointed by I guess. Maybe it coulda been prevented if they focused more on SAB from the beginning instead of weird things like raids~ unless they’re planning a SAB raid wing. Probably easier to find 10 players for that than the actual raids.

Doggie.3184:

Disappointing to have all my effort trivialized but oh well. There’s a lot of things in life to be disappointed by I guess. Maybe it coulda been prevented if they focused more on SAB from the beginning instead of weird things like raids~ unless they’re planning a SAB raid wing. Probably easier to find 10 players for that than the actual raids.

Not enough lilypads in the world.

Honestly though, the REAL prestige items now are the backpacks and titles you get from the achievements. You could always buy the skins, but you can’t buy the titles.

Doggie.3184:

Maybe it coulda been prevented if they focused more on SAB from the beginning instead of weird things like raids~

It could have been prevented (minimised) if they hadn’t just came in and greenlighted exploiting.

I can’t believe they took the effort to actually encourage devaluing the skins when they could have literally done nothing and the situation would have been better. This was the best reward system in the game (no RNG, rewarded skill, had a similar set for people to buy on the TP, had another similar set tied to dailies) and they ruined it with a single post.

Again, I’m really glad ANet are communicating, but this was just about the only situation where talking to us would do more harm than good and they took it :S

I mean really, how do you look at an exploit, realise you need time to fix it, and decide the best thing to do is to publicly announce that its fine to use it? They can’t even go back on it now because anyone doing the exploit can just say they never saw the retraction.

Ticky.5831:

Not enough lilypads in the world.

Honestly though, the REAL prestige items now are the backpacks and titles you get from the achievements. You could always buy the skins, but you can’t buy the titles.

Guess we’ll see those in the gemstore tomorrow…

Quite frankly, I solo SAB, I only play in a party when a Guild Member needs help, but I do them waaaaay faster alone.

BTW, when a miracle occurs and ANET adds new weapons to the game… PLEASE add nunchucks.

Disturbing.

Jhoul.6923:

BTW, when a miracle occurs and ANET adds new weapons to the game… PLEASE add nunchucks.

While I 100% agree on the nunchucks bit… unfortunately I don’t think it is going to happen.

I mean, they iced legendary weapons, which could mean any new weapons are not getting any. Even if they hadn’t done that and a legendary for a new weapon type was on their famous table the number of skins plus that potential legendary weapon really makes new weapon types seems as extremely cost prohibitive type of content.

People are craving for more armor skins and they told us that is cost prohibitive because of the five races thing… think about how many skins on average weapon has and on top of that a legendary weapon with precursor crafting… I just don’t see it.

Crise.9401:

Jhoul.6923:

BTW, when a miracle occurs and ANET adds new weapons to the game… PLEASE add nunchucks.

While I 100% agree on the nunchucks bit… unfortunately I don’t think it is going to happen.

I mean, they iced legendary weapons, which could mean any new weapons are not getting any. Even if they hadn’t done that and a legendary for a new weapon type was on their famous table the number of skins plus that potential legendary weapon really makes new weapon types seems as extremely cost prohibitive type of content.

People are craving for more armor skins and they told us that is cost prohibitive because of the five races thing… think about how many skins on average weapon has and on top of that a legendary weapon with precursor crafting… I just don’t see it.

Key word:

BTW, when a miracle occurs and ANET adds new weapons to the game… PLEASE add nunchucks.

I do applaud the response from the Anet team, because transparency is where it’s at.

On the other hand… this is clearly exploiting. Dungeon selling is an unintended consequence of an intended feature (rejoining a party in progress), whereas in the case of SAB Tribulation Mode it’s NOT intended that people should be able to join a run in motion. People found this bug and are using it to make huge chunks of in-game currency; that is a textbook example of exploiting.

In terms of trivializing content, selling SAB tribulation mode should not be treated like selling dungeons, but treated like selling home-node runs, which IS a reportable offense. The reasoning for being able to report people offering parties to harvest home nodes is that, ostensibly, it’s an abuse of the LFG system. What this more or less confirms for me, however, is that advertising home node runs is banned because it specifically impacts gem store revenue, since otherwise Anet apparently doesn’t give a crap if you’re abusing the LFG tool even for clear exploitation. It’s disturbing…. but on the other hand maybe I’ll just throw up my hands and take part. Selling world 1 zone 1 for 3g is an easy 12g every 5-8 minutes. Somewhat more profitable than dungeon selling per time spent. (I’m being facetious, I wouldn’t feel right joining in, but kitten . The apparently legitimate money is tempting.)

(Addendum for clarity: I’m not saying Anet shouldn’t protect their revenue stream, I’m just saying they could extend the same protection to at least minimize impact on the LFG tool, which is absolutely flooded with W2 trib selling ads.)

Not that I personally agree with ArenaNet’s stance on this issue (as is evident by one of my earlier posts), but I suddenly feel the need to play devils advocate for a moment.

The exploit, and yes it is in an exploit as has been pointed out by many, doesn’t actually introduce new currency to the game. The reward systems of SAB are entirely separated from gold (or rather they are entirely SAB specific and most of the stuff is account bound this being one of its good traits). Yes, rare drops of skins can be sold, but those only shift currency through the trading post and thus in effect remove it.

The selling of any SAB like group content only shifts wealth from many players to a smaller subset of players… which is not necessarily a good thing, but it isn’t the same as introducing new currency.

I completely agree that this should be treated as a bona fide exploit… because that is what it is. Unintended game behavior is being used for personal gain and while it is not as bad as things that interact directly with primary currencies, or introduces new currency, or the material economy it still isn’t entirely without ramifications.

Not to mention this could be seen as setting an unfavorable precedent… granted that is their prerogative to do so if they so choose, but this could potentially result in countless needless/bogus appeals of other exploiting behavior even if the appeal process is entirely under ArenaNet’s control.

Crise.9401:

Not that I personally agree with ArenaNet’s stance on this issue (as is evident by one of my earlier posts), but I suddenly feel the need to play devils advocate for a moment.

The exploit, and yes it is in an exploit as has been pointed out by many, doesn’t actually introduce new currency to the game. The reward systems of SAB are entirely separated from gold (or rather they are entirely SAB specific and most of the stuff is account bound this being one of its good traits). Yes, rare drops of skins can be sold, but those only shift currency through the trading post and thus in effect remove it.

The selling of any group content only shifts wealth from many players to a smaller subset of players… which is not necessarily a good thing, but it isn’t the same as introducing new currency.

I completely agree that this should be treated as a bona fide exploit… because that is what it is. Unintended game behavior is being used for personal gain and while it is not as bad as things that interact directly with primary currencies, or introduces new currency, or the material economy it still isn’t entirely without ramifications.

Not to mention this could be seen as setting an unfavorable precedent… granted that is their prerogative to do so if they so choose, but this could potentially result in countless needless/bogus appeals of other exploiting behavior even if the appeal process is entirely under ArenaNet’s control.

Actually, selling dungeon runs does add currency to the game as the end of a dungeon gives gold to those present at the end.

However, I do agree with the gist of your post. The effect of the exploit isn’t going to wreck the economy in any way. And it does, as you say, set a very dangerous precedent.

Seera.5916:

Actually, selling dungeon runs does add currency to the game as the end of a dungeon gives gold to those present at the end.

You are absolutely correct, and thinking about it if you can still salvage dungeon token armor even more so.

To tell the truth I haven’t ran dungeons in ages, I am in this weird in-between were dungeons are too easy if not trivial (and since liquid gold was changed, unrewarding) and raids are way too stressful. Which on a personal level sucks because I have very little to do (you can only kill mossman so many times before you go insane). I am going way off-topic now though, so lets just leave it at that.

Seera.5916:

Actually, selling dungeon runs does add currency to the game as the end of a dungeon gives gold to those present at the end.

Except that many times it involves a group running the instance and then 4/5 people leaving so those spots could be sold for the run.

There was never any “added gold”. The dungeons were always meant to be done by a party of 5. Even if one person soloed the thing and then sold the spots at the end it would still be handing out as intended amounts of rewards.

People getting undeserved rewards aside, nothing was happening that wasn’t meant to happen. It wasn’t like selling runs was producing 6+ sets of rewards per dungeon.

Substance E.4852:

Seera.5916:

Actually, selling dungeon runs does add currency to the game as the end of a dungeon gives gold to those present at the end.

Except that many times it involves a group running the instance and then 4/5 people leaving so those spots could be sold for the run.

There was never any “added gold”. The dungeons were always meant to be done by a party of 5. Even if one person soloed the thing and then sold the spots at the end it would still be handing out as intended amounts of rewards.

People getting undeserved rewards aside, nothing was happening that wasn’t meant to happen. It wasn’t like selling runs was producing 6+ sets of rewards per dungeon.

You seemed to miss the context in which the comment was made and assumed that I thought it was a bad thing to sell dungeons. It was a correction to something Crise said. Regardless of whether or not the addition of the gold to the game is intended or not, selling dungeon runs does indeed add gold to the game. Crise had said in the post I quoted that selling dungeons did not add gold to the game.

The second paragraph was me saying that I agreed with the gist of his post. Allowing selling of SAB slots is a slippery slope and a dangerous precedent to set. One that may bite ANet in the future.

Sird.4536:

Mordeus.1234:

Honestly saying nothing about this until a fix was actually implemented would have been preferable. If only to act as a deterrent. Giving the okay to this will now only encourage the practice further. It doesn’t just trivialise the skins & infusions, it trivialises all the players who are completing tribulation mode the intended way.

I hope a fix is implemented sooner than the end of the festival. It should really be a priority.

Yep. I opened LFG yesterday to advertise a group for the daily and saw the amount of SAB sells. For a second I though of selling w2z3 as that is what I was farming but thought against it as it did not seem right but now I am going to cash in big time which still doesn’t feel right but hey, it’s allowed.

On the bright side, the LFG advertisements didn’t increase until after ArenaNet said it was OK to do it. This means most players aren’t willing to risk their accounts for taking advantage of something that isn’t working as intended. Since it’s officially OK to do it now, nobody has to worry about getting banned for it.

And if we didn’t get official word on where ArenaNet stands until later, or not at all, the complaints would be a whole lot worse. People don’t like it when they’re silent about an issue. So Chris’ response is appreciated, at least by me.

To be honest, I think we may be making a big deal out of nothing. It really isn’t hurting anything for people to pay for tribulation runs.

Charrbeque.8729:

Sird.4536:

Mordeus.1234:

Honestly saying nothing about this until a fix was actually implemented would have been preferable. If only to act as a deterrent. Giving the okay to this will now only encourage the practice further. It doesn’t just trivialise the skins & infusions, it trivialises all the players who are completing tribulation mode the intended way.

I hope a fix is implemented sooner than the end of the festival. It should really be a priority.

Yep. I opened LFG yesterday to advertise a group for the daily and saw the amount of SAB sells. For a second I though of selling w2z3 as that is what I was farming but thought against it as it did not seem right but now I am going to cash in big time which still doesn’t feel right but hey, it’s allowed.

On the bright side, the LFG advertisements didn’t increase until after ArenaNet said it was OK to do it. This means most players aren’t willing to risk their accounts for taking advantage of something that isn’t working as intended. Since it’s officially OK to do it now, nobody has to worry about getting banned for it.

And if we didn’t get official word on where ArenaNet stands until later, or not at all, the complaints would be a whole lot worse. People don’t like it when they’re silent about an issue. So Chris’ response is appreciated, at least by me.

To be honest, I think we may be making a big deal out of nothing. It really isn’t hurting anything for people to pay for tribulation runs.

The only problem is, by the literal definition of exploit as it pertains to MMO’s selling SAB runs the way they are doing it is an exploit. Their allowing of this exploit sets a precedent for future exploits. It means there are exceptions and now players will argue that the exploit they used is the same as this and therefore should be an exception to the rule.

Seera.5916:

Charrbeque.8729:

Sird.4536:

Mordeus.1234:

Honestly saying nothing about this until a fix was actually implemented would have been preferable. If only to act as a deterrent. Giving the okay to this will now only encourage the practice further. It doesn’t just trivialise the skins & infusions, it trivialises all the players who are completing tribulation mode the intended way.

I hope a fix is implemented sooner than the end of the festival. It should really be a priority.

Yep. I opened LFG yesterday to advertise a group for the daily and saw the amount of SAB sells. For a second I though of selling w2z3 as that is what I was farming but thought against it as it did not seem right but now I am going to cash in big time which still doesn’t feel right but hey, it’s allowed.

On the bright side, the LFG advertisements didn’t increase until after ArenaNet said it was OK to do it. This means most players aren’t willing to risk their accounts for taking advantage of something that isn’t working as intended. Since it’s officially OK to do it now, nobody has to worry about getting banned for it.

And if we didn’t get official word on where ArenaNet stands until later, or not at all, the complaints would be a whole lot worse. People don’t like it when they’re silent about an issue. So Chris’ response is appreciated, at least by me.

To be honest, I think we may be making a big deal out of nothing. It really isn’t hurting anything for people to pay for tribulation runs.

The only problem is, by the literal definition of exploit as it pertains to MMO’s selling SAB runs the way they are doing it is an exploit. Their allowing of this exploit sets a precedent for future exploits. It means there are exceptions and now players will argue that the exploit they used is the same as this and therefore should be an exception to the rule.

Back when GW2 was released, there was a karma “bug” from a merchant in Kessex Hills. Some people exploited this bug (the item was selling for a lot lower then it should have been). A lot of people were banned for that exploit, but they were given a chance to be sorry about it, and lose all the profits they made. They’ve already set the precedence about exploits.

Kind of puzzling response from ANET. Everyone knows it’s an exploit which should be a no-no in the game. And yet ANET is giving it the go ahead.

In any case, if they are eventually going to patch this up for next time, how about considering an option for people to get back into Trib mode where they left off if they DC? This has happened a few times when I’ve been on with guild mates where they would DC during a Trib run and it’s kind of heartbreaking.

Or maybe just do away with not being able to join parties already in Trib, but use the checkpoint system to determine where that character gets put in the world. Prevents people from selling it since a new character entering would have 0 checkpoints and would start at the beginning of the level. At the same time someone who had been playing could get back to where they last checked in at in case they had DCed.

Wow. That’s…. um…. a thing I guess.

On one hand, I suppose it fits with the selling of everything else in the game which they seem to have no problem with. Sell dungeons, sell raids, sell fractals, sell jumping puzzles, who cares, anything goes.

On the other hand, Tribulation Mode is meant to be a test of individual skill which you aren’t supposed to be able to bypass through such means. Its the whole reason its restricted in the first place, with the big red letters kindly telling you that you can’t join partway through a run. So while this response may be in-line with the rest of the game, its out of line with what Tribulation Mode in particular is supposed to be.

And the fact that the restriction exists and is being bypassed is clearly an exploit no matter what the policy is for other parts of the game with similar practices, so having Anet just come and say “Yah, whatever, its fine” definitely isn’t something I feel is a good direction to go in. Its even worse that they’re saying they’re going to fix it at some point, because its basically saying “Not only are we OK with it, but you better do it now”. So they’re not only accepting it, but in a way even encouraging everyone to do it ASAP.

One interpretation is that ANet does consider it an exploit but the amount of work involved in a ban wave for something that isn’t economically affecting the game as a whole is more than they want to deal with while in a crunch to get content to us as promised in lieu of legendaries.

They’ll just roll out a fix to stop the behavior and after that it will no longer be possible, so it’s only a short term impact.

That’s not the same as saying “sure, exploits are fiiiiine.” More like “this one is annoying but not fatal to the game and won’t last a whole month anyway.”

Donari.5237:

One interpretation is that ANet does consider it an exploit but the amount of work involved in a ban wave for something that isn’t economically affecting the game as a whole is more than they want to deal with while in a crunch to get content to us as promised in lieu of legendaries.

They’ll just roll out a fix to stop the behavior and after that it will no longer be possible, so it’s only a short term impact.

That’s not the same as saying “sure, exploits are fiiiiine.” More like “this one is annoying but not fatal to the game and won’t last a whole month anyway.”

That’s a realistic scenario, sure. But if that is indeed the case, they should have made that clear in the post, rather than using phrases like “we don’t have a problem with it”. Saying we consider it an exploit but don’t have the resources for an extensive banning session is a far different thing than saying we’re OK with it as long as no scamming is involved.

Or just say its an exploit and leave it at that even if they don’t have the resources to go banning people. At the very least that keeps people most people from doing it more for fear of potentially getting banned even if in reality it won’t happen, as opposed to now where its just open season because Anet says they don’t have a problem with it.

Electro.4173:

So they’re not only accepting it, but in a way even encouraging everyone to do it ASAP.

Exactly my feeling when I read Anet’s answer.

I will only say: I am greatly disappointed, ArenaNet. You are encouraging cheating in your game and trivialize the troubles those had who actually took the time to farm the skins from tribulation mode by themselves. This is clearly unfair, and I hope you will realize your error sooner or later.

They could shut SAB down until its fixed. Would anyone be happy with that? Serious question, by the way.

zenleto.6179:

They could shut SAB down until its fixed. Would anyone be happy with that? Serious question, by the way.

No. Why punish those that don’t use that exploit? But if it would allow me to get that tribulation shop in W1Z1, I’d jump right in… I did that tribulation mode once on my main account to get the shops, I doubt I’ll find the drive to do it again on my second account. I really don’t like that tribulation mode, but I would like to get that coin exchange…

Charrbeque.8729:

On the bright side, the LFG advertisements didn’t increase until after ArenaNet said it was OK to do it. This means most players aren’t willing to risk their accounts for taking advantage of something that isn’t working as intended. Since it’s officially OK to do it now, nobody has to worry about getting banned for it.

And if we didn’t get official word on where ArenaNet stands until later, or not at all, the complaints would be a whole lot worse. People don’t like it when they’re silent about an issue. So Chris’ response is appreciated, at least by me.

To be honest, I think we may be making a big deal out of nothing. It really isn’t hurting anything for people to pay for tribulation runs.

It’s hurting people who worked to get the tribulation rewards through effort and skill and have had their work devalued. Heck, what about the people who bought an Infinite Continue Coin so they could do it?

I simply disagree that silence would have been worse than opening the floodgates. They clearly consider something bad to be happening, which is why they are going to fix it. That means they had five options:

1) Say they’re going to ban people (whether they will or they won’t).
2) Say they consider it an exploit and don’t mention bans.
3) Say nothing.
4) Say they consider it an exploit but admit they can’t ban people.
5) Say they’re fine with it.

Those are actually listed in order of effectiveness in combating the exploit. The best choice was probably option (2). If they don’t care about lying, they could have gone to (1). If they don’t care about silence, they could have gone to (3). At an absolute maximum trade off of effectiveness for transparency, they could have gone to (4). What they actually chose was option (5), which was the worst thing they could have possibly done.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

zenleto.6179:

They could shut SAB down until its fixed. Would anyone be happy with that? Serious question, by the way.

No. Why punish those that don’t use that exploit? But if it would allow me to get that tribulation shop in W1Z1, I’d jump right in… I did that tribulation mode once on my main account to get the shops, I doubt I’ll find the drive to do it again on my second account. I really don’t like that tribulation mode, but I would like to get that coin exchange…

Yeah, me either. I’ve been enjoying my SAB. Still working through world 2 on normal let alone Tribulation mode. I’d be dirty if my head of steam was interrupted. I can’t really see an option other than that if they were to try and combat this exploit until its fixed. Except for bans of course.

zenleto.6179:

They could shut SAB down until its fixed. Would anyone be happy with that? Serious question, by the way.

If it was actually generating wealth, they would have temporarily disabled access to either the entirety of SAB, just TM or just the end rewards, whichever they’re capable of. They’ve done it in the past without a patch. They could have fixed this already by simply moving the tokens to the daily chest.

Now they should just make the skins tradeable.

Why are people even crying over this? I’ve met some very nice people by buying SAB trib boss tokens y’day evening.

It’s nice to see people helping others out in getting what they want in the game they paid for, no issues with payment, and people seem really grateful.

I get that it turns the only non monetary valued items (trib skins) into buyable, tangible, items for more people, but its only for a few weeks of the year, and ive been waiting for 2 years for these skins!

Like the dev said, its the same as paying for boss kills in Arah or FOTM etc.

If you feel people are cheating thr system, and you don’t do the same, i’m sorry you only have yourself to blame.

It’s like playing Warrior in pvp right now, only to lose, but then complain because you didnt do the correct thing, and re-roll

Liam McColgan.7689:

Why are people even crying over this? I’ve met some very nice people by buying SAB trib boss tokens y’day evening.

It’s nice to see people helping others out in getting what they want in the game they paid for, no issues with payment, and people seem really grateful.

I get that it turns the only non monetary valued items (trib skins) into buyable, tangible, items for more people, but its only for a few weeks of the year, and ive been waiting for 2 years for these skins!

Like the dev said, its the same as paying for boss kills in Arah or FOTM etc.

If you feel people are cheating thr system, and you don’t do the same, i’m sorry you only have yourself to blame.

It’s like playing Warrior in pvp right now, only to lose, but then complain because you didnt do the correct thing, and re-roll

So you are saying you deserve to be allowed to exploit because you have been waiting for 2 years and can’t be kitten d to do it properly.

Yes the dev is wrong it is not like buying bosses in dungeons or fractals. Those you can enter and leave freely. Trib mode is supposed to be off limits to anyone other then the people already inside. So yes it is cheating. Thus you are saying it is alright to cheat.

Just a quick reminder, there actually is an objective definition of what an exploit is in video games. It really shouldn’t be subject to such wild reinterpretation on a case by case basis in my opinion.

ArenaNet is free to do as they wish, however, you can’t dispute that this is using an exploit by that objective definition of the term.

In video games, an exploit is the use of bugs or glitches, game systems, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game’s designers.

I think there is no argument to be made for the case where joining an in-progress Tribulation mode run would ever have been something intended by the game designers in this instance (both the devs and the game itself have made that clear).

This is an instance where they are directly overruling their own user agreement and code of conduct.

Guild Wars 2 Code of Conduct

17. You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars 2 and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars 2.

Guild Wars 2 User Agreement, section 8

You acknowledge that You may not, without signed written consent from a legally authorized representative of ArenaNet, do any of the following — Use, or provide others with, any “hack,” “cheat,” “exploit” or “mod”;

Yes, they have given their consent in this instance, however, the fact that this is an exploit has not changed. The point of discussion as I see it, isn’t whether this is okay or not, because in that one statement they made it okay, but whether they made the right call in overruling their own policies so blatantly.

We can not really dispute the written consent given by Chris Cleary (although, I guess technically it isn’t signed etc. but that is just nitpicking). We can, however, discuss and provide input on whether this was the right thing to do in our opinion.

Chris Cleary.8017:

Alright, it’s about time I commented on this.

As of now we don’t have a problem with players doing this. While the late join is unintended, if players want to pay for this service, that’s fine. It does trivialize the skins some, but this isn’t any different than the skins from purchasing a raid run or a dungeon run (which we also are ok with). As long as the transaction is completed and players are getting what they paid for, fine.

However, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t going to fix this. A fix is in the works right now, and that fix may happen before SAB closes or be there for the next time the festival opens.

So, another classic example of GW2’s basic philosophy: “exploit early, exploit often”, before the exploit is closed down.

At least this Anet post clearly proves it IS an ‘exploit’, just one you’re letting people get away with.

I have mixed feelings about this.

Skill based Gold making is such a great thing. The only thing that sucks is making the skins more prolific. It was once a sign that you accomplished something. Not necessarily anymore.

The trade off is that Anet has given people with skills a good way to make in-game money.

Buyers and sellers profit, but those wanting a status symbol or want something more unique are unfortunately left out of the equation.

Really? From what I see, Anet allows exploits, is it safe to assume that any exploit is allowed?

I’m very disappointed reading the official arena statement on this topic.
Exploiting SAB rewards is no different than going under the textures in AC p1 right to the boss and selling that path, which I would like to remind you was bannable.
Green and yellow SAB skins were something that had value to it, because it was not something that everyone could run through easily. What you did by allowing EXPLOITING and selling mentioned tokens (skins) is letting rich and unskilled players to get the skins, that shouldn’t be normally obtainable by them, so basically removing the value of the skins. Shame on you arena. Shame on you.

DeWolfe.2174:

A big problem with the “exploit” definition is that it’s missing a key ingredient, the “to one’s personal advantage”. The benefits in this are mutual between multiple parties. The benefit’s are also open to every player in the game.

Oh, so selling run for 30g per spot is not a personal advantage, when that run shouldn’t have been able to be sold in the first place. Also, the benefits are not in fact open to every player in the game because discussing how the exploit works will still get you moderated here for example, or at least it did until very recently (at least two topics got moderated after this thread was a thing afaik). So it is hardly generally available information, meaning not everyone could take advantage of it (for reasons that have nothing to do with skill).

Just do it for real. It’s a crap shoot for it to even work and you’ll lose out on money.

Hard to imagine the official allow the legitimate use true exploits…

Liam McColgan.7689:

Why are people even crying over this? I’ve met some very nice people by buying SAB trib boss tokens y’day evening.

It’s nice to see people helping others out in getting what they want in the game they paid for, no issues with payment, and people seem really grateful.

I get that it turns the only non monetary valued items (trib skins) into buyable, tangible, items for more people, but its only for a few weeks of the year, and ive been waiting for 2 years for these skins!

Like the dev said, its the same as paying for boss kills in Arah or FOTM etc.

If you feel people are cheating thr system, and you don’t do the same, i’m sorry you only have yourself to blame.

It’s like playing Warrior in pvp right now, only to lose, but then complain because you didnt do the correct thing, and re-roll

enjoy them exploited skins u nvr earned.

World War III.3869:

enjoy them exploited skins u nvr earned.

How is this different from my situation?

I have done all dungeons story mode. I don’t sPvP. Yet I have all dungeon skins.

I never “earned” those skins, I just moved my character forward/backwards/forwards/backwards. It only took me time. Time where I read books, fora, worked a bit on my API, just making sure I moved my character once in a while.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

How is this different from my situation?

I have done all dungeons story mode. I don’t sPvP. Yet I have all dungeon skins.

I never “earned” those skins, I just moved my character forward/backwards/forwards/backwards. It only took me time. Time where I read books, fora, worked a bit on my API, just making sure I moved my character once in a while.

1) Dungeon skins never really required that much skill, so the skins weren’t prestige items.

2) Dungeon selling requires people to carry you.

3) I’m not really sure “I can also get rewards without earning them elsewhere” is a defence.

Bizarrely, ANet actually seem to have used the reasoning in (3), even while acknowledging that it’s something they should fix. They’ve encouraged their best reward system to be completely devalued just because another system (which they’ve actively abandoned) was also a mess.

Honestly this bug is really bad, it’s not the same like Arah and Fractal because, by design, you couldn’t join a tribulation run already started, you can only do it because of this bug.

I trained a lot to to learn every tribulation run and organize myself to complete the collections….and now there is the lfg plenty of lfsell Messages.

I started to sell paths too, at least i can gain some money like others and this repay me a little from the time i spent to master trib. runs.

But it is a sad situation.

inb4 someone finds an exploit to sell pvp and account bound legendary skins and anet gives ok

Liam McColgan.7689:

Why are people even crying over this? I’ve met some very nice people by buying SAB trib boss tokens y’day evening.

It’s nice to see people helping others out in getting what they want in the game they paid for, no issues with payment, and people seem really grateful.

I get that it turns the only non monetary valued items (trib skins) into buyable, tangible, items for more people, but its only for a few weeks of the year, and ive been waiting for 2 years for these skins!

Like the dev said, its the same as paying for boss kills in Arah or FOTM etc.

If you feel people are cheating thr system, and you don’t do the same, i’m sorry you only have yourself to blame.

It’s like playing Warrior in pvp right now, only to lose, but then complain because you didnt do the correct thing, and re-roll

There are several issues at play here all of which are valid concerns:

1. They just ok’ed the use of a genuine exploit (acknowledging that they have to fix it at some point too). I feel this point should be enough to really make this a major issue.

2. Players ran the content and acquired the skins on the basis that they were a prestige based skin set that showed off individual jumping skill. spending 40 hours getting the skins may have been worth it for some people while that statement was true and is now not worth it that the statement is not true.

3. As a follow on from 2, this exploit literally harms the other players account value. Lets say the skins were worth a theoretical 100g each, now that the exploit is disseminating the items to everyone in some cases runs for completely free that value has crashed.

4. The items no longer rare. It was say 10% of the population obtainable before now it’s 100%.

5. It’s another case of players putting effort into something and then A-net crapping on that effort with little or no regard just because it doesn’t effect the silly gold based economy.

Just to address your other points too, just because people bought the game doesn’t mean they get to have everything, Monopoly would be a pretty short game if that was the case…. And just because you want the skin does not mean you should get it.

Anyway I hope you accidentally salvage a precursor.

Today I sold an SAB instance and the people were all really nice and there were no issues. Personally I think selling services is perfectly okay, it’s been a part of the game for a long time (like selling dungeons, JPs, LS achievements,…), it was even approved by Anet.

Yes I do agree that this diminishes the value of these acc-bound skins (and the aura) and allows players who wouldn’t normally be able to do it to obtain them. But honestly the problem is not as big as you’re making it out to be.

First, not all the people who buy services are noobs who can’t play the game. Sometimes they are actually pretty skilled players who’ve been hoarding a lot of gold over the years and just buy stuff they cannot be bothered to learn (even though they could do it if they wanted).

Second, you underestimate the amount of gold people have to pay to get all the skins. If they want both auras, it means they have to buy each zone of both worlds 16 times, which amounts to roughly 400g. Sure it’s not too hard to get this money, but don’t forget it also does take some effort. Do you spend 40 hours doing SAB or do you spend 40 hours doing some other activity and just buy the tokens? Doesn’t make much difference to me.

Third, you have to look at it from the other side. This aspect of the game enriches gameplay and allows more skilled players to make money in an interesting way. If someone is so good that he can run trib mode in a very short time and sell it 40 times a day, he sure deserves that gold.

Also, trib mode isn’t really all that hard. I’m sure most people who buy it were just afraid of even trying it because they’ve heard how crazy it is. In reality, if they took a few minutes to look it up and try it, they would realise it doesn’t take some crazy skill and would hate themselves for buying it since most people can finish it with some patience. I watched my friends who aren’t good at jumping doing trib mode. Yes they’ve struggled and it took them quite a bit of time, but eventually everyone finished every zone. It’s not hard.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

How is this different from my situation?

I have done all dungeons story mode. I don’t sPvP. Yet I have all dungeon skins.

I never “earned” those skins, I just moved my character forward/backwards/forwards/backwards. It only took me time. Time where I read books, fora, worked a bit on my API, just making sure I moved my character once in a while.

1) Dungeon skins never really required that much skill, so the skins weren’t prestige items.

Getting a legendary never really required that much skill (only money and gold), so those skins aren’t prestige either?

But then, I never understood that “prestige” stuff. I get a skin because I like it, not because somebody else likes it or would look at that skin and thinks I’m such-and-such player…