Selling items using the LFG Tool is a very bad idea. The tool was not intended for that purpose, and those who use it are not protected from scams, rip-offs, and general heartbreak.
Sure, if someone rips you off and CS can verify it, they’ll take action against the scammer. But they cannot return the item.
I know I sound all rah-rah when I say “Use the TP” but I’m a player too, and I pay the fees, and darn it, it’s a small price to pay — literally — to avoid the ripoffs that happen when someone decides to take a risk to avoid the fees.
Today is one example of the badness of using the LFG Tool: I got a very heartfelt PM this afternoon from someone who had The Flameseeker Prophecies — yes, a bloomin’ Flameseeker! — stolen from him by a scammer using the LFG Tool to identify potential victims. He knows now and will never forget: You should never, ever, ever use the LFG tool for trades.
Whether it’s the two-copper piece of junk or the legendary of your dreams, please sell it through the safe, secure, and intended methods offered within the game.
Here’s the one problem though Gaile, the listing fees.
Some people can’t afford to list an expensive item they get, it can cost 50 gold or more to list an item you might have gotten as a drop There should be a cap on listing fees and the rest would just be taken out of sale profits.
Selling items using the LFG Tool is a very bad idea. The tool was not intended for that purpose, and those who use it are not protected from scams, rip-offs, and general heartbreak.
Sure, if someone rips you off and CS can verify it, they’ll take action against the scammer. But they cannot return the item.
I know I sound all rah-rah when I say “Use the TP” but I’m a player too, and I pay the fees, and darn it, it’s a small price to pay — literally — to avoid the ripoffs that happen when someone decides to take a risk to avoid the fees.
Today is one example of the badness of using the LFG Tool: I got a very heartfelt PM this afternoon from someone who had The Flameseeker Prophecies — yes, a bloomin’ Flameseeker! — stolen from him by a scammer using the LFG Tool to identify potential victims. He knows now and will never forget: You should never, ever, ever use the LFG tool for trades.
Whether it’s the two-copper piece of junk or the legendary of your dreams, please sell it through the safe, secure, and intended methods offered within the game.
Here’s the one problem though Gaile, the listing fees.
Some people can’t afford to list an expensive item they get, it can cost 50 gold or more to list an item you might have gotten as a drop There should be a cap on listing fees and the rest would just be taken out of sale profits.
What you’re suggesting would create havoc on the TP. How would a cap be determined? By how much gold a player possesses? Many players have guild banks and can just hide their gold there. They will then be free to place sell orders at whatever price that they desire as well as re-list without penalty. And this is just the beginning.
Have seen people trying to sell everything lately. Someone keeps trying to sell jumping puzzles. Which is not something you can guarantee the other person you’re selling it to is going to complete. So pretty sure thats not allowed!
Selling items using the LFG Tool is a very bad idea. The tool was not intended for that purpose, and those who use it are not protected from scams, rip-offs, and general heartbreak.
Sure, if someone rips you off and CS can verify it, they’ll take action against the scammer. But they cannot return the item.
I know I sound all rah-rah when I say “Use the TP” but I’m a player too, and I pay the fees, and darn it, it’s a small price to pay — literally — to avoid the ripoffs that happen when someone decides to take a risk to avoid the fees.
Today is one example of the badness of using the LFG Tool: I got a very heartfelt PM this afternoon from someone who had The Flameseeker Prophecies — yes, a bloomin’ Flameseeker! — stolen from him by a scammer using the LFG Tool to identify potential victims. He knows now and will never forget: You should never, ever, ever use the LFG tool for trades.
Whether it’s the two-copper piece of junk or the legendary of your dreams, please sell it through the safe, secure, and intended methods offered within the game.
Here’s the one problem though Gaile, the listing fees.
Some people can’t afford to list an expensive item they get, it can cost 50 gold or more to list an item you might have gotten as a drop There should be a cap on listing fees and the rest would just be taken out of sale profits.
We already have this in place – it’s called “sell to highest buy offer”.
The reason the marketplace has such fees attached to it are to curb inflation (it’s a gold sink counter-acting the endless stream of gold that gets pumped into the system daily by killing mobs and selling trash back to the store), which benefits all players, especially the poorer ones.
Selling items using the LFG Tool is a very bad idea. The tool was not intended for that purpose, and those who use it are not protected from scams, rip-offs, and general heartbreak.
Sure, if someone rips you off and CS can verify it, they’ll take action against the scammer. But they cannot return the item.
I know I sound all rah-rah when I say “Use the TP” but I’m a player too, and I pay the fees, and darn it, it’s a small price to pay — literally — to avoid the ripoffs that happen when someone decides to take a risk to avoid the fees.
Today is one example of the badness of using the LFG Tool: I got a very heartfelt PM this afternoon from someone who had The Flameseeker Prophecies — yes, a bloomin’ Flameseeker! — stolen from him by a scammer using the LFG Tool to identify potential victims. He knows now and will never forget: You should never, ever, ever use the LFG tool for trades.
Whether it’s the two-copper piece of junk or the legendary of your dreams, please sell it through the safe, secure, and intended methods offered within the game.
Here’s the one problem though Gaile, the listing fees.
Some people can’t afford to list an expensive item they get, it can cost 50 gold or more to list an item you might have gotten as a drop There should be a cap on listing fees and the rest would just be taken out of sale profits.
We already have this in place – it’s called “sell to highest buy offer”.
The reason the marketplace has such fees attached to it are to curb inflation (it’s a gold sink counter-acting the endless stream of gold that gets pumped into the system daily by killing mobs and selling trash back to the store), which benefits all players, especially the poorer ones.
Selling to highest buyer still has a fee, and to add onto that, buyers lowball items pretty severely a lot of times.
I dunno, a cap of say 10g listing fee.
I know when I mystic forged a precursor I could barely afford it’s 58g listing fee.
i sell things on the trade market all the time and honestly i do not pay a lot in fee’s
Then again all i do is farm materials to sell.
The things that people use LFG to sell are usually fully made legendaries, occasionally precursors. Precursors can cost over 50g to list, Legendaries can be in the hundreds of gold to list.
Then there’s the worst part. If you list and then people start repeatedly undercutting you, you may not sell.
Before you say “just sell to the highest buy order”
Buy orders can be lowballed by almost 1000g on legendaries. Nobody wants to lose out on 1000g to speculators who are generally just looking to relist for profit.
The listing fee keeps people from constantly removing items and relisting every time they’re undercut. It would be a nightmare if there was no penalty for taking down a sell offer.
It’s pretty ridiculous that this game doesn’t offer player trading that doesn’t involve the trading post. You would think a game as beautiful and advanced as this would have such a simple feature.
+ 1 Disappointed
As Gaile pointed out, the TP and it’s taxes protect the games economy. Leaching a little gold out of the system is good for us all as it combat inflation.
By not having a direct sale option it maintains that tax on any sale. If you feel the need to avoid it you have to understand and accept the risks that come with it. Direct trades could simply be called tax evasion in this game. People doing it need to accept the risks they are taking.
IIRC They did post a few months ago that they would start to crack down on people Scamming, however you will not get your items/gold back, simply the person scamming would be punished.
The listing fee keeps people from constantly removing items and relisting every time they’re undercut. It would be a nightmare if there was no penalty for taking down a sell offer.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a fee, I’m saying that the fee should have a reasonable cap.
10g or so is a reasonable cap for the out of pocket up front fee.
The listing fee keeps people from constantly removing items and relisting every time they’re undercut. It would be a nightmare if there was no penalty for taking down a sell offer.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a fee, I’m saying that the fee should have a reasonable cap.
10g or so is a reasonable cap for the out of pocket up front fee.
I’m wondering if the lack of Anet responding to this topic with clearly defined rules has to do with legal issues. I went back and looked at this page:
There is nothing there that discusses the use of the LFG tool or terms that may indicate violations of the LFG tool. In other words, if someone were to be suspended or banned for using the LFG to sell items they might have a case to dispute their suspension. Since the LFG was added in 2013, maybe the legal department has not caught up to define in their ToS what violates the terms of the LFG tool. Thus the LFG is a free for all at this point.
The listing fee keeps people from constantly removing items and relisting every time they’re undercut. It would be a nightmare if there was no penalty for taking down a sell offer.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a fee, I’m saying that the fee should have a reasonable cap.
10g or so is a reasonable cap for the out of pocket up front fee.
Not really when it comes to high priced items.
I’m only talking about the up front cost, the total gold taxed would still be the same, basically the up front cost would be capped and the rest of what the listing price WOULD have been over the cap is taken from the sale instead.
You’d have fewer people selling over chat and LFG if that were the case.
The listing fee keeps people from constantly removing items and relisting every time they’re undercut. It would be a nightmare if there was no penalty for taking down a sell offer.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a fee, I’m saying that the fee should have a reasonable cap.
10g or so is a reasonable cap for the out of pocket up front fee.
Not really when it comes to high priced items.
I’m only talking about the up front cost, the total gold taxed would still be the same, basically the up front cost would be capped and the rest of what the listing price WOULD have been over the cap is taken from the sale instead.
You’d have fewer people selling over chat and LFG if that were the case.
You’re not really understanding the purpose of the listing fee. It’s not some arbitrary thing that they just threw in for kicks.
Selling items using the LFG Tool is a very bad idea. The tool was not intended for that purpose, and those who use it are not protected from scams, rip-offs, and general heartbreak.
Sure, if someone rips you off and CS can verify it, they’ll take action against the scammer. But they cannot return the item.
I know I sound all rah-rah when I say “Use the TP” but I’m a player too, and I pay the fees, and darn it, it’s a small price to pay — literally — to avoid the ripoffs that happen when someone decides to take a risk to avoid the fees.
Today is one example of the badness of using the LFG Tool: I got a very heartfelt PM this afternoon from someone who had The Flameseeker Prophecies — yes, a bloomin’ Flameseeker! — stolen from him by a scammer using the LFG Tool to identify potential victims. He knows now and will never forget: You should never, ever, ever use the LFG tool for trades.
Whether it’s the two-copper piece of junk or the legendary of your dreams, please sell it through the safe, secure, and intended methods offered within the game.
Here’s the one problem though Gaile, the listing fees.
Some people can’t afford to list an expensive item they get, it can cost 50 gold or more to list an item you might have gotten as a drop There should be a cap on listing fees and the rest would just be taken out of sale profits.
50 gold oO that is crazy.. 1 gold should be max uh. for a 50 gold item ?.
How can they sell if there is no trading player to player though.. that’s what I don’t get.
I never sit on a lot of cash, so I would be in the same boat in the unlikely event I get a very expensive item.
Let’s take Dawn for example:
Lowest selling offer is 899 gold, highest bid is 790 gold. If I sell at highest bid, I get 671,5 gold, if I undercut the highest selling offer, I can potentially make 763,3 gold. Since I cannot come up with the 44,9 gold needed to make that listing, I try a different approach.
I put on LFG that I’m willing to sell Dawn for 850 gold. I find my buyer, he puts his bid on TP, I sell to the new highest bid, we’re both happy: I make an extra 51 gold, he saves 49 gold.
Risk of getting scammed? None at all. 127,5 gold was paid for this safe service. I wouldn’t call that “a small price”, but it’s still better than losing everything.
What you’re suggesting would create havoc on the TP. How would a cap be determined? By how much gold a player possesses? Many players have guild banks and can just hide their gold there. They will then be free to place sell orders at whatever price that they desire as well as re-list without penalty. And this is just the beginning.
There would be ways to solve that too. Only activate the return button (or however it’s called) if the full listing price has been paid. Or bind an event to that button to let the seller pay for the remainder of the listing price if it wasn’t done in full.
What you’re suggesting would create havoc on the TP. How would a cap be determined? By how much gold a player possesses? Many players have guild banks and can just hide their gold there. They will then be free to place sell orders at whatever price that they desire as well as re-list without penalty. And this is just the beginning.
There would be ways to solve that too. Only activate the return button (or however it’s called) if the full listing price has been paid. Or bind an event to that button to let the seller pay for the remainder of the listing price if it wasn’t done in full.
Assuming I understood you correctly, this would just out more work on the dev team than needed. Around 75 gold is at the high end that you’d expect a player to pay in listing fees which is mainly for precursors. It’s not that difficult to get this much gold within a week. The majority of players will need far less. Listing an item for 500G only costs 25G.
The LFG is getting even more of these WTS listings there daily.
Today i asked few people why they put these there and it seems many of these buyers and sellers have read and seen a post somewhere on reddit or forums that WTS and WTB is okay on the LFG and is essentially a trading board for them to use.
Has this been said somewhere by Gaile or someone else?
Most of these people seem pretty adamant that they are not doing anything wrong and that the tp is waste of their time. I myself could not find any confirmation to one way or the other :S.
WvW Blobs aren’t Blobs they are just large group of oozes blobbing along each other.
Leader of the Iron Hall [Iron]
Server: Desolation now and forever.
The LFG is getting even more of these WTS listings there daily.
Today i asked few people why they put these there and it seems many of these buyers and sellers have read and seen a post somewhere on reddit or forums that WTS and WTB is okay on the LFG and is essentially a trading board for them to use.
Has this been said somewhere by Gaile or someone else?
Most of these people seem pretty adamant that they are not doing anything wrong and that the tp is waste of their time. I myself could not find any confirmation to one way or the other :S.
It hasn’t been stated. They’re making that assumption based on the lack of a direct response as to whether it is okay or not. The anarchical side of me thinks we just need a PSA thread announcing that it’s okay so that the LFG floods with more posts forcing action. Of course, this is hardly the best approach and could do more harm than good.
I know I sound all rah-rah when I say “Use the TP” but I’m a player too, and I pay the fees, and darn it, it’s a small price to pay — literally — to avoid the ripoffs that happen when someone decides to take a risk to avoid the fees.
Whether it’s the two-copper piece of junk or the legendary of your dreams, please sell it through the safe, secure, and intended methods offered within the game.
Here is the problem with these two sentences. Instead of instituting a secure player to player trading option, similar to the one in GW1 Anet forces us to use the TP as our only secure trading option. The cost of listing a legendary can be as high as 200g. Now if you get undercut a bunch of times now you’re just twiddling your thumbs and hoping it eventually sells and if it doesn’t sell then you’re stuck eating that cost and potentially throwing away another 200g. I don’t even mind the 15% TP tax, but I’d much prefer it be a flat 15% selling fee and there be no listing fee.
The LFG is getting even more of these WTS listings there daily.
Today i asked few people why they put these there and it seems many of these buyers and sellers have read and seen a post somewhere on reddit or forums that WTS and WTB is okay on the LFG and is essentially a trading board for them to use.
Has this been said somewhere by Gaile or someone else?
Most of these people seem pretty adamant that they are not doing anything wrong and that the tp is waste of their time. I myself could not find any confirmation to one way or the other :S.
It hasn’t been stated. They’re making that assumption based on the lack of a direct response as to whether it is okay or not. The anarchical side of me thinks we just need a PSA thread announcing that it’s okay so that the LFG floods with more posts forcing action. Of course, this is hardly the best approach and could do more harm than good.
They gave a direct answer. You can do it at your own risk.
I know I sound all rah-rah when I say “Use the TP” but I’m a player too, and I pay the fees, and darn it, it’s a small price to pay — literally — to avoid the ripoffs that happen when someone decides to take a risk to avoid the fees.
Whether it’s the two-copper piece of junk or the legendary of your dreams, please sell it through the safe, secure, and intended methods offered within the game.
Here is the problem with these two sentences. Instead of instituting a secure player to player trading option, similar to the one in GW1 Anet forces us to use the TP as our only secure trading option. The cost of listing a legendary can be as high as 200g. Now if you get undercut a bunch of times now you’re just twiddling your thumbs and hoping it eventually sells and if it doesn’t sell then you’re stuck eating that cost and potentially throwing away another 200g. I don’t even mind the 15% TP tax, but I’d much prefer it be a flat 15% selling fee and there be no listing fee.
Except there are specific reasons for the 5% listing fee. They didn’t arbitrarily add it to the game.
The LFG is getting even more of these WTS listings there daily.
Today i asked few people why they put these there and it seems many of these buyers and sellers have read and seen a post somewhere on reddit or forums that WTS and WTB is okay on the LFG and is essentially a trading board for them to use.
Has this been said somewhere by Gaile or someone else?
Most of these people seem pretty adamant that they are not doing anything wrong and that the tp is waste of their time. I myself could not find any confirmation to one way or the other :S.
It hasn’t been stated. They’re making that assumption based on the lack of a direct response as to whether it is okay or not. The anarchical side of me thinks we just need a PSA thread announcing that it’s okay so that the LFG floods with more posts forcing action. Of course, this is hardly the best approach and could do more harm than good.
They gave a direct answer. You can do it at your own risk.
No they didn’t. It was never stated whether using the LFG to sell items rather than on the TP was or wasn’t LFG Abuse. All they did was give their position on player to player trading.
The LFG is getting even more of these WTS listings there daily.
Today i asked few people why they put these there and it seems many of these buyers and sellers have read and seen a post somewhere on reddit or forums that WTS and WTB is okay on the LFG and is essentially a trading board for them to use.
Has this been said somewhere by Gaile or someone else?
Most of these people seem pretty adamant that they are not doing anything wrong and that the tp is waste of their time. I myself could not find any confirmation to one way or the other :S.
It hasn’t been stated. They’re making that assumption based on the lack of a direct response as to whether it is okay or not. The anarchical side of me thinks we just need a PSA thread announcing that it’s okay so that the LFG floods with more posts forcing action. Of course, this is hardly the best approach and could do more harm than good.
They gave a direct answer. You can do it at your own risk.
No they didn’t. It was never stated whether using the LFG to sell items rather than on the TP was or wasn’t LFG Abuse. All they did was give their position on player to player trading.
Gaile literally said “Selling items using the LFG Tool is a very bad idea. The tool was not intended for that purpose, and those who use it are not protected from scams, rip-offs, and general heartbreak.”
That clearly means they don’t take action against it, but that they aren’t going to help you when you’re robbed.
The LFG is getting even more of these WTS listings there daily.
Today i asked few people why they put these there and it seems many of these buyers and sellers have read and seen a post somewhere on reddit or forums that WTS and WTB is okay on the LFG and is essentially a trading board for them to use.
Has this been said somewhere by Gaile or someone else?
Most of these people seem pretty adamant that they are not doing anything wrong and that the tp is waste of their time. I myself could not find any confirmation to one way or the other :S.
It hasn’t been stated. They’re making that assumption based on the lack of a direct response as to whether it is okay or not. The anarchical side of me thinks we just need a PSA thread announcing that it’s okay so that the LFG floods with more posts forcing action. Of course, this is hardly the best approach and could do more harm than good.
They gave a direct answer. You can do it at your own risk.
No they didn’t. It was never stated whether using the LFG to sell items rather than on the TP was or wasn’t LFG Abuse. All they did was give their position on player to player trading.
Gaile literally said “Selling items using the LFG Tool is a very bad idea. The tool was not intended for that purpose, and those who use it are not protected from scams, rip-offs, and general heartbreak.”
That clearly means they don’t take action against it, but that they aren’t going to help you when you’re robbed.
Read the rest. They haven’t directly stated whether it qualifies as LFG Abuse or not.
If they’re having issues on how to handle it since it’s a relatively new issue, I have one.
Rather than suspend the account for violations, suspend the account’s ability to create LFG listings. That’s the core issue that the majority of us have as it’s these listings that clutter up the LFG system making it more cumbersome for those using it for its intended purpose. If the player keeps on violating the policy, just keep adding on to each suspension. After they get 30 days or longer suspensions due to repeated violations, maybe they’d get the hint.
I was going to suggest suspension from the LFG system altogether but decided on the least punishing alternative first. If it’s deemed to not be harsh enough to prevent the use of the LFG system for selling items, then it could be escalated to include the entire usage of the system.
Let’s look closely at the LFG tool, and clear up any indication as to it’s purpose.
Living World
-Open World Content
Dungeons
-list of dungeons
Fractals of the Mists
-list of fractals
Personal Story
-General Personal Story
Player vs. Player
-Team Arena
-Custom Arenas
World vs. World
-list of worlds
None of those sections listed has anything to do with trading or selling. They are meant for PvE and PvP activities. The key word is activities. Selling items on the tool is clearly an abuse of the system, because that’s not what it’s intended for, whether it’s officially stated or not.
A possible solution, would be to add a section for trading or a general purpose section for socialization.
.