Guild Wars 2

I’ve been skimming through recent posts regarding ascended gear and the patch notes for June 23rd. If you haven’t already guessed I’d like to get a better perspective on the meaning of gear treadmill as it relates to the previously mentioned topics. Doing a bit of looking around. I’ve read claims about how the 5%-10% gap increase between exotic and ascended is making the transition of armor a ‘treadmill’.

Not big on buzzwords I looked around wiki and google for a decent definition. Couldn’t really find one that was widely accepted. However, I did find some material that I feel could help shed some light on what a ‘gear treadmill’ is, to some agreeable point, and thus see if the claim ’GW2 armor progression is that of a gear treadmill ’.

Currently, I would argue based on a reddit post I found pretty accepted in that communit here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/25rz4b/define_gear_treadmill/

and a older, but still relevant AMA from Chris Whiteside here: http://dulfy.net/2012/11/26/gw2-chris-whiteside-ama-on-reddit/

that the claim ‘GW2 armor progression is that of a gear treadmill ’ does not hold: Because ascended armor is not intended to be the end-game armor,-Taken away from interview- does not require any previous rarity of armor and is true for any rarity set of armor -Taken away from the reddit post- and that the percentage gap is not intended nor makes it so that the GW2 player-base in its entirety is encourage to ’grind’ for the gear in order to partake in the majority of the content i.e FotM is the only content that is required to have this gear in order to successfully complete the higher tiers, but even so not required in order to play it at all -taken away from Chris’ interview.

That is what I’ve gathered and understood so far with the information that I have gathered. I am free, as is anyone, to change stance given new information.

Let the debate begin!

A treadmill is something you walk on in real life and it gets you nowhere. That’s the definition of a treadmill.

In most MMOs, every time there’s an expansion, and sometimes even between expansions, new tiers of gear are revealed. These tiers of gear invalidate the work you did last time, because you have to go and get new max level gear. But after you do that, you have to do it again. Hence it’s a treadmill.

Anet has said straight out that ascended gear will be the highest tier of gear, so it really can’t be called a treadmill. For example, if you already have ascended gear, and many people do, they’re not having to go out and get new gear.

There was already a difference between exotics and ascended, Anet is, if these new patch notes turn out to be accurate, increasing that difference. But does that make it a treadmill. No. Because once you have that gear, you won’t have to get it again. It’s the last tier. You get it, and you’re done. Thus not a treadmill.

GW2 is a 7 step staircase, 6 steps in armor, not a gear treadmill nor does this change make it one.

A gear treadmill refers to consistently adding in gear that is more powerful and negates previous gear. This is usually forced due to the fact that content was balanced around the new gear.

So until Anet starts balancing content around Ascended and/or also continually adds in new better gear then it is not a treadmill. It is just top tier.

The increase to 10% isn’t a gear treadmill. It’s just a scuzzy move to get more players from the “ascended isn’t worth it” camp into “I better get working on the ascended grind if I’m going to keep up”.

Gibson.4036:

The increase to 10% isn’t a gear treadmill. It’s just a scuzzy move to get more players from the “ascended isn’t worth it” camp into “I better get working on the ascended grind if I’m going to keep up”.

Which means everyone who mostly plays WvW will not be in WvW for a good year because they’ll be farming for Ascended gear. Or they’ll just quit.

kash.9213:

Gibson.4036:

The increase to 10% isn’t a gear treadmill. It’s just a scuzzy move to get more players from the “ascended isn’t worth it” camp into “I better get working on the ascended grind if I’m going to keep up”.

Which means everyone who mostly plays WvW will not be in WvW for a good year because they’ll be farming for Ascended gear. Or they’ll just quit.

If that’s what you think it means. But then if you’re part of a zerg, the odds are your server will have the same percentage of people who are part of a zerg in the same situation. So I’m not sure it’ll impact all players in that way.

kash.9213:

Gibson.4036:

The increase to 10% isn’t a gear treadmill. It’s just a scuzzy move to get more players from the “ascended isn’t worth it” camp into “I better get working on the ascended grind if I’m going to keep up”.

Which means everyone who mostly plays WvW will not be in WvW for a good year because they’ll be farming for Ascended gear. Or they’ll just quit.

Indeed.

I agree with Vayne.
However, much of the community already feels that Ascended is a “required grind” and that the stat diffference means that in order to be the most optimal you “MUST” have Ascended.

But a treadmill? No. The gear you already have will be buffed (supposedly) so you don’t need to go get another set.

It seems like many people are ignoring this. Or choose to believe that with the stat difference increase that Ascended will be “Required” to do anything anymore. Thus meaning that if you don’t already have it, you will need it to be able to participate in any group content and dungeons. I personally don’t see that happening.

It IS a threadmill. I was happy with my exotic set. Now there is a new gear tier that is 10% better that was added in a patch.

stof.9341:

It IS a threadmill. I was happy with my exotic set. Now there is a new gear tier that is 10% better that was added in a patch.

I was happy in my rares, remove exotics.

Exotics where in the game the day I bought it, not ascended :o If ANet had added Exotics suddenly in a patch, you would be completely in your right to complain.

BrooksP.4318:

stof.9341:

It IS a threadmill. I was happy with my exotic set. Now there is a new gear tier that is 10% better that was added in a patch.

I was happy in my rares, remove exotics.

I was happy in my whites, remove masterwork.

stof.9341:

Exotics where in the game the day I bought it, not ascended :o If ANet had added Exotics suddenly in a patch, you would be completely in your right to complain.

I wouldn’t say this is an invalid feeling, but I wouldn’t use it to justify it as a treadmill. Seems more perspective than anything. Realistically, aside from FotM, you aren’t required to have the armor to play the game.

The big difference is acquisition. There’s a very smooth acquisition curve from whites on up through Exotic. Better tiers are a little harder to get, but not drastically so. Exotic gear takes some dungeon runs, or a trip through Orr, or a little gold earning to achieve.

Then, suddenly, there is a sharp increase in the acquisition curve between Exotic and Ascended. Ascended takes a ridiculous amount of resources and time compared to Exotic. If the difficulty of getting Ascended compared to Exotic was the equivalent of Exotic to Rare, it wouldn’t seem like this bizarre monstrosity ripped out of a gear-treadmill game and pasted on to the end of GW2’s original gradual gear progression with chewing gum and duct tape.

That’s why the “if we’re getting rid of Ascended, let’s get rid of Exotics, and hey, even rares and just run around in Masterwork” argument doesn’t hold water.

From my perspective, it is a treadmill : I farmed my Exotics, then a patch comes and new gear is here I need to farm.

From a stat value point of view, the ascended armors were so low value one might consider they didn’t exist. That new patch “fixes” that so in a perceptive sense, we just got handed a new set of gear upgrade to farm.

This might not be a perfect fit for the “treadmill” definition but it sure looks a LOT like it.

I would add that treadmilling systems imply a content difficulty scaled on the last tier of gear.
For now (and I hope for the future ) the game level is balanced around exotic stats (well fractals are maybe scaled on ascended stats other than agony res but I am not sure).

Technically, WvW difficulty is scaled on the higher gear tier level :p

And you didn’t see the HoT new zones yet.

Also the 30% more stats on gear will make in absolute the stat gap between ascended and exotic absolutely huge.

Asc. may not be a treadmill, but Gibson is right. This is ANet sticking a finger in the eye of anyone who bought the game because the pre-launch info gave no indication of a steep acquisition curve for BiS — and who’s been hanging on. The, “It’s only 5%.” is now doubled to, “It’s only 10%.” and I can see no reason to change the gap other than to make the stuff more desirable — and closer to mandatory.

Why does this, in a roundabout way, remind me of “incentivizing” PvP and WvW via the latest iteration of dailies? ANet cannot keep up with the demand for new content, so they try to get more mileage out of the old stuff.

stof.9341:

From my perspective, it is a treadmill : I farmed my Exotics, then a patch comes and new gear is here I need to farm.

From a stat value point of view, the ascended armors were so low value one might consider they didn’t exist. That new patch “fixes” that so in a perceptive sense, we just got handed a new set of gear upgrade to farm.

This might not be a perfect fit for the “treadmill” definition but it sure looks a LOT like it.

Ascended came out forever ago…
And yeah it takes awhile to craft, but then again it’s not “required” for anything other than high level fractals. Which means, that you can do EVERYTHING else in the game (including fractals) without having ascended gear at all.

A gear “treadmill” would be in that you would be unable to do dungeons/worldbosses/new zones/etc. unless you had Ascended gear.
This isn’t the case in any way, shape, or form.

You’re only allowed to care about BiS gear if it’s absolutely required to do the content.

Gibson.4036:

You’re only allowed to care about BiS gear if it’s absolutely required to do the content.

If you don’t need it, why do you care?

Gibson.4036:

You’re only allowed to care about BiS gear if it’s absolutely required to do the content.

It’s one thing to be concerned about a change to Ascended, and quite another to make the claim that Ascended is mandatory. That its forced to play in WvW, or dungeons. Or to claim that people will be unable to participate in the game unless they have full Ascended.

Not everyone on the internet is capable of expressing themselves through logic and language effectively or succinctly. In fact, most people aren’t regardless of the medium. It becomes harder to truly comprehend a person the more you focus on these things.

This is a good example, by focusing on the treadmill semantics you miss, marginalize, and/or obfuscate the core of many players frustrations with the relevant portion of GW2’s direction.

It takes almost no context or logic to realize that people complaining about treadmills are simply expressing their dissatisfaction with increasing the pressure on them to stat grind, which is not an expectation they, rightfully IMO, had for GW2.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Asc. may not be a treadmill, but Gibson is right. This is ANet sticking a finger in the eye of anyone who bought the game because the pre-launch info gave no indication of a steep acquisition curve for BiS — and who’s been hanging on. The, “It’s only 5%.” is now doubled to, “It’s only 10%.” and I can see no reason to change the gap other than to make the stuff more desirable — and closer to mandatory.

Why does this, in a roundabout way, remind me of “incentivizing” PvP and WvW via the latest iteration of dailies? ANet cannot keep up with the demand for new content, so they try to get more mileage out of the old stuff.

While the first part is true, it is a moot point. Many games promise many things and have to either risk change or fall to stagnation after time goes on. What Anet has done however is limit that change to make it available but not dictate the game.

The 2nd part might show the flaws in GW2 original design as well as why MMOs do the carrot on a stick method. Devs cannot create enough content fast enough to keep players interested. This is why they do grinds or even make gear treadmills, it can suck at times from a player’s perspective, but it does keep people playing. If there was no grind, no carrot, and no restrictions then it will always seem as like the game is in a “content drought”.

Let’s not even talk about the huge cost experimenting with different builds XD

I’ve been gone for a while.
The original addition of Ascended was terribly disappointing, and I argued it vehemently. (not that I expect anyone to remember me)

Everyone said “it’s such a small difference”
“It’ll be totally optional”
“just let the grinders have their goals to grind for”

I said no, it’s a bad idea, because once they have it, and especially given how much freaking work it required they’re going to whine and complain that all that effort for such a tiny boost wasn’t fair and Ascended should be buffed to have a more clearly defined advantage over Exotic.

And here we are.
I start coming back, working on convincing some friends to come join me (using the fact exotics were all you needed and weren’t a huge grind as my biggest argument.)
And this is the first thing I find.

It’s a hilariously depressing coincidence.
And feels like another betrayal of the trust I put in philosophy of the game design.

I have no Ascended gear. It’s not going to “get a quick bump” and be the same for me.
I’m looking at a tier of gear that now clearly obsoletes the one I have.
I feel like I’m being pushed in front of the wrong escalator and told “it’s only one floor”

Every treadmill starts with a single step.
And as much as everyone is going to (again) go on about how it’s a one time thing (for the second time) (no really we really really mean it this time)
They’ll do it again, as someone in another thread kindly pointed out, all they ever said was that Ascended was the highest tier “for now” and that was over a year ago.

So argue “it’s not a treadmill because I don’t have to do any work” all you want.
That’s not true for everyone.
I stand here unsure I want to come back at all, I’m looking at months of “work” to be ready to have fun
And having to ask myself if I can in good conscience drag my friends into this brewing disaster.

The people this punishes most are duelers and roamers in wvw. Previously we could be competitive against ascended players with exotics.

risa.1382:

This is a good example, by focusing on the treadmill semantics you miss, marginalize, and/or obfuscate the core of many players frustrations with the relevant portion of GW2’s direction.

It takes almost no context or logic to realize that people complaining about treadmills are simply expressing their dissatisfaction with increasing the pressure on them to stat grind, which is not an expectation they, rightfully IMO, had for GW2.

Brilliant post. So many discussions get sidetracked by arguments over language like “casual” or “hardcore”, “treadmill” and references to “The Manifesto”.

risa.1382:

Not everyone on the internet is capable of expressing themselves through logic and language effectively or succinctly. In fact, most people aren’t regardless of the medium. It becomes harder to truly comprehend a person the more you focus on these things.

This is a good example, by focusing on the treadmill semantics you miss, marginalize, and/or obfuscate the core of many players frustrations with the relevant portion of GW2’s direction.

It takes almost no context or logic to realize that people complaining about treadmills are simply expressing their dissatisfaction with increasing the pressure on them to stat grind, which is not an expectation they, rightfully IMO, had for GW2.

This, exactly.

risa.1382:

Not everyone on the internet is capable of expressing themselves through logic and language effectively or succinctly. In fact, most people aren’t regardless of the medium. It becomes harder to truly comprehend a person the more you focus on these things.

This is a good example, by focusing on the treadmill semantics you miss, marginalize, and/or obfuscate the core of many players frustrations with the relevant portion of GW2’s direction.

It takes almost no context or logic to realize that people complaining about treadmills are simply expressing their dissatisfaction with increasing the pressure on them to stat grind, which is not an expectation they, rightfully IMO, had for GW2.

Let’s use math instead:

Current Exotic Armor Stats:
315/224/224
Exotic Armor Stats + 30% (Projected):
410/291/291

Current Ascended Armor Stats:
329/235/235
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+5% (Projected):
431/306/306
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+10% (Projected):
451/320/320

The difference from 5% to 10% (what everybody is all worked up over) is about 20 main stat and 14 off stat. Not that big of a deal…

risa.1382:

Not everyone on the internet is capable of expressing themselves through logic and language effectively or succinctly. In fact, most people aren’t regardless of the medium. It becomes harder to truly comprehend a person the more you focus on these things.

This is a good example, by focusing on the treadmill semantics you miss, marginalize, and/or obfuscate the core of many players frustrations with the relevant portion of GW2’s direction.

It takes almost no context or logic to realize that people complaining about treadmills are simply expressing their dissatisfaction with increasing the pressure on them to stat grind, which is not an expectation they, rightfully IMO, had for GW2.

That’s the point of the post is to do those things. I don’t really see how people’s feelings in a particular way about something affects a definition for something else. I understand that it impacts their opinion about it, but I’m asking for like you said logical approach. If someone can’t brig themselves to think that way I don’t fault them or invalidate their feelings. I’m interested in what ‘gear treadmill’ meant in the context of Ascended gear regarding the recent patch notes. Anything else is out of the scope of this post.

jadaniel.4910:

risa.1382:

Not everyone on the internet is capable of expressing themselves through logic and language effectively or succinctly. In fact, most people aren’t regardless of the medium. It becomes harder to truly comprehend a person the more you focus on these things.

This is a good example, by focusing on the treadmill semantics you miss, marginalize, and/or obfuscate the core of many players frustrations with the relevant portion of GW2’s direction.

It takes almost no context or logic to realize that people complaining about treadmills are simply expressing their dissatisfaction with increasing the pressure on them to stat grind, which is not an expectation they, rightfully IMO, had for GW2.

That’s the point of the post is to do those things. I don’t really see how people’s feelings in a particular way about something affects a definition for something else. I understand that it impacts their opinion about it, but I’m asking for like you said logical approach. If someone can’t brig themselves to think that way I don’t fault them or invalidate their feelings. I’m interested in what ‘gear treadmill’ meant in the context of Ascended gear regarding the recent patch notes. Anything else is out of the scope of this post.

I took a break for a while and am just coming back.
I have no Ascended gear.
And barely any mats with which to craft it.
I’m now looking at a tier of gear that clearly outclasses what I have, it no longer being just 5%, which was arguable already.
Everyone keeps pointing out that “Now there’s a reason to grind for it”
The “reason” being now it’s far more necessary than it was.
(Necessary is similar to required)
So I’m looking at months of work to obtain gear I believed I wouldn’t “have” to have just to get ready to have fun later in the faint hope that it will still be relevant by the time I finish.

People argue “it’s a one time thing”
But I feel like I’m being pushed in front of the wrong escalator and told “it’s only one floor”

Varezenem.2813:

BrooksP.4318:

stof.9341:

It IS a threadmill. I was happy with my exotic set. Now there is a new gear tier that is 10% better that was added in a patch.

I was happy in my rares, remove exotics.

I was happy in my whites, remove masterwork.

GW2 would be a, objectively better game without gear tiers, actually. So yes, do that.

Geargrinding for statboni only helps people that can’t get the feeling of success and progress elsewhere in their life. After all, Guild Wars 1 already showed that statgrind is not needed to begin with.

Everyone said “it’s such a small difference”
“It’ll be totally optional”
“just let the grinders have their goals to grind for”

I remember you from back then. I agreed with you then, and I agree with you know.

This additional buff for ascended simply proves the people right that pointed out that Ascended was a bad move.

No amount of handwringing over “it’s not threadmill!!11” changes the fact that originally, GW2 was advertized to simply not have this element. It was a core part of the marketing.

By the way, due to fractals, my character is in full ascended. And I still want this gone. It’s harmful for the game. This change is absolutely terrible. And it never ends. People said it’d “just be once, just 5%!” back then. Now it’s 10%, with gear that has much higher stats.

It doesn’t end. The difference is huge, and if people weren’t being dishonest, they’d admit it. I mean, in other forums, people argue that a 3% nerf to a damage trait is huge.

If so, how come a 10% in gear stats is not? The people arguing that the difference doesn’t matter are lying through their teeth. It does matter – else they’d not defend it. If the difference didn’t matter, nobody would care if it existed. And people desperate to keep their advantage wouldn’t defend it so vehemently.

A “Treadmill” requires two things:

1. Your current gear is no longer good enough to do the current content.
2. New gear must be acquired.

Since both of these statements are false, this change does not represent a “treadmill” situation.

Buffing the stats of an existing tier represents “Power Creep” or “Balance” depending on how it is being handled.

It’s clearly not a tread mill. But, making ascended gear more powerful means that you will be at a greater disadvantage using exotic gear. Ascended gear is difficult to obtain, so it will be more difficult to switch up your build.

Safari Tank.6238:

The difference from 5% to 10% (what everybody is all worked up over) is about 20 main stat and 14 off stat. Not that big of a deal…

If it’s truly not that big a deal…..

Why does it even exist ?

/dropsmic

Safari Tank.6238:

risa.1382:

Not everyone on the internet is capable of expressing themselves through logic and language effectively or succinctly. In fact, most people aren’t regardless of the medium. It becomes harder to truly comprehend a person the more you focus on these things.

This is a good example, by focusing on the treadmill semantics you miss, marginalize, and/or obfuscate the core of many players frustrations with the relevant portion of GW2’s direction.

It takes almost no context or logic to realize that people complaining about treadmills are simply expressing their dissatisfaction with increasing the pressure on them to stat grind, which is not an expectation they, rightfully IMO, had for GW2.

Let’s use math instead:

Current Exotic Armor Stats:
315/224/224
Exotic Armor Stats + 30% (Projected):
410/291/291

Current Ascended Armor Stats:
329/235/235
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+5% (Projected):
431/306/306
Ascended Armor Stats, Exotic+10% (Projected):
451/320/320

The difference from 5% to 10% (what everybody is all worked up over) is about 20 main stat and 14 off stat. Not that big of a deal…

The pre-patch notes reference gear, not just armor, as getting the ~30% increase and Ascc. gear, not just armor, getting the additional 5% increase.

pdavis.8031:

Ascended came out forever ago…
And yeah it takes awhile to craft, but then again it’s not “required” for anything other than high level fractals.

That argument was very weak even before that planned stat buff. Required? Yeah, it isn’t, but it sure helps a lot, and it offers significant advantage. Which will only get bigger now.
And before you’ll try to claim, that those that don’t like it should simply ignore it, notice that Anet, by increasing the difference, made clear that they don’t intend us to ignore it.

Astralporing.1957:

pdavis.8031:

Ascended came out forever ago…
And yeah it takes awhile to craft, but then again it’s not “required” for anything other than high level fractals.

That argument was very weak even before that planned stat buff. Required? Yeah, it isn’t, but it sure helps a lot, and it offers significant advantage. Which will only get bigger now.
And before you’ll try to claim, that those that don’t like it should simply ignore it, notice that Anet, by increasing the difference, made clear that they don’t intend us to ignore it.

Dont get me wrong. Im not saying that its not better. It is. But as the OP stated, from the interview and the reddit thread, ascended isnt required.

As for significant advantage? I wouldnt call a 1-2% increase in effectiveness significant.
With this change it will increase the effectiveness to 2-4%. Which is still marginal by any standards. People seem to forget that a 5% or 10% increase in stats does not equate that same increase in effectiveness. (i.e. damage output, armor, etc.)

Is this change a treadmill? No not really. Will it cause ascended to be more sought after? Probably. Will it be game breaking? I’ll be willing to bet that within 3 weeks of it being implemented there will be VERY few who even notice a difference. And those will be the theory crafters, elite dungeon speed runners, and hardcore wvw duelers. (And by elite dungeon runners, i mean those who are setting legitimate records and compete for such things, not the wannabe “zerk exp 15k Ap speed run” people)

This move is devastating to savvy new players. Let’s say I want to get my friend into the game, who is well versed in competitive gaming. Do I now have to tell him that he’ll be at a 10% handicap for a year of gaming if he wants to WvW? Uh, yeah – no. He just won’t play the kittening game.

pdavis.8031:

As for significant advantage? I wouldnt call a 1-2% increase in effectiveness significant.

We both know that the difference between full ascended and full exotics is bigger than that.

Astralporing.1957:

pdavis.8031:

As for significant advantage? I wouldnt call a 1-2% increase in effectiveness significant.

We both know that the difference between full ascended and full exotics is bigger than that.

With three or four toons in full Ascended, and several more in just Exotics I can tell you that yes is about that insignificant.

Well the difference will increase by 30% anyway.

Vayne.8563:

Anet has said straight out that ascended gear will be the highest tier of gear, so it really can’t be called a treadmill. For example, if you already have ascended gear, and many people do, they’re not having to go out and get new gear.

There was already a difference between exotics and ascended, Anet is, if these new patch notes turn out to be accurate, increasing that difference. But does that make it a treadmill. No. Because once you have that gear, you won’t have to get it again. It’s the last tier. You get it, and you’re done. Thus not a treadmill.

I would agreee with this definition under the rule of a constant paradigm of equally balanced stats.

But due the balance patches for stats, skills, runes, sigils and traits the viability of the stats the game is oftenly changing, and making some of them usefull and another ones useless.

Since the release of the game I found myself wasting entire sets of armors due they nerfed some contents or buffed some others. I remember a time in which having 2 monk + 2 water + 2 HotW runes did provide a 45% increase of boon durations, which paired with cleric gear worked very well in my WvW raid Guardian. Then those runes were nerfed, and the resources spent in the set became wasted. Same thing happened multiple times.

I did forge my first ascended armor between January and March, this year: a full celestial set. It cost me ~350 gold coins. The developers already spoked their intentions of nerfing the cuerrent celestial stats around a 10%, so soon my ascended set will became subpar, forcieng me either to fight in disadvantage or to rebuild again my gear.

So, I think that is fair to say that the game has a gear treadmill, since it periodically forces you to regear your toons if you want optimal results.

Man this is all taking me back two years in time to the great Ascended gear introduction riots. I almost quit the game over its introduction, but didn’t. I did struggle to make my ascended gear at first, but it became easier as time passed. I’m no where as miffed as I was about it years ago.

The hard part is armoring up your main, the time gating hurts as you want it NOW. For me on alts I just went slower allowing my mats to build over time and making the armor as I could.

I still wish it had never been introduced. I don’t think there is a way to change it now without major pain to many players. If it becomes easier to acquire by too much older players will feel hurt and resentful.

It is and always has been a leg up on anyone not wearing it. Diminish that and folks who made it again will be kittened off.

I have no idea what possible a solution to this is other than just leave it be and let everyone suffer through making it.

It is a grind!

Ferguson.2157:

Man this is all taking me back two years in time to the great Ascended gear introduction riots. I almost quit the game over its introduction, but didn’t. I did struggle to make my ascended gear at first, but it became easier as time passed. I’m no where as miffed as I was about it years ago.

The hard part is armoring up your main, the time gating hurts as you want it NOW. For me on alts I just went slower allowing my mats to build over time and making the armor as I could.

I still wish it had never been introduced. I don’t think there is a way to change it now without major pain to many players. If it becomes easier to acquire by too much older players will feel hurt and resentful.

It is and always has been a leg up on anyone not wearing it. Diminish that and folks who made it again will be kittened off.

I have no idea what possible a solution to this is other than just leave it be and let everyone suffer through making it.

It is a grind!

If the devs can mess around with WvW progression skills to make new WvW players feel like they’re not left behind then the devs can make similar concessions to players who play the rest of the game more than crafting. WvW players complained about that change, and the devs cared none at all so, let people who spent all their time and money crafting Ascended complain a little after allowing for more active ways to acquire the gear. It’s not even giving it away or making it easier, it would simply mean providing the top stats through the different areas of activity.

kash.9213:

If the devs can mess around with WvW progression skills to make new WvW players feel like they’re not left behind then the devs can make similar concessions to players who play the rest of the game more than crafting. WvW players complained about that change, and the devs cared none at all so, let people who spent all their time and money crafting Ascended complain a little after allowing for more active ways to acquire the gear. It’s not even giving it away or making it easier, it would simply mean providing the top stats through the different areas of activity.

I agree. I wish it had never been added. I’m just saying it’s a kitten ed if you do/kitten ed if you don’t issue for Anet.

edit: lol – I’m having kittens

ColinJohanson.2394:

Just want to clarify since I saw this come up a couple of times in this thread and we haven’t actually released our full official patch notes for 6/23 yet….

Ascended Gear will be staying 5% better than Exotic Gear. Gear beyond the tiers we already have are not going to be added and our existing tiers won’t change, they won’t be our main end-game form of progression for your characters/account for all the reasons we’ve covered before – it isn’t what we think Gw2 is about.

Masteries is being added to PvE to help provide this system as our form of progression for PvE moving forward, and the WvW ability system exists for WvW and will be what we use to expand WvW in the future.

To more directly answer some of your point….We are adding a system that lets you change the stats for your ascended gear (weapons and armor) next Tuesday – which will cost a combination of 10 spirit shards, piece you don’t want anymore, 5 ectos, and an exotic insignia of the stats you want to convert to. Legendary Gear will remain the gear that can freely change stats any time.

-CJ
(Edited to clarify weapons and armor)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ascended-Gear-Anet-please-fix-this/page/2#post5174281

Thanks for reading!