Guild Wars 2

@Aproposs Of Fire
But of what use is providing such data without any sort of baseline for comparison or access to historical data or even without knowing what we’re supposed to expect. I’m a database software developer and database administrator by trade and unless they have an extraordinarily poorly designed database, the data they’re asking us to record is a simple query against the database that can be written in minutes. If they don’t store such data, then even they don’t have historical data to provide a baseline and the data we’re providing is contextless and subjective anyway. The whole thing reeks of delay to drag it out as long as possible.

Balzaimon.4895:

To request player feedback is perfectly acceptable, and i encourage all players to give their feedback concerning their experience with the game. But it is my experience that I do not play a game for the purpose of “testing” or “quality control”, I do not work all day long just to come home and take notes and create flow charts of “Data” as my form of entertainment. The request for player feedback is logical, but perhaps the way the request was phrased was ill informed in the spirit of customer service.

I am pretty sure everyone is producing Excel sheets with at least 276 × 890 cells to fulfill their data request…

Hi! It’s nice to see that attention is being given to this (HUGE) issue. However, we’ve had a huge amount of people telling in numerous posts that they’re getting far less drops than before. Asking people to give data when those threads got 0 attention from devs and some were closed/merged seems a bit “off” imo.

Well, rambling aside, here is my (not so concrete) data:

- Veterans and Champion Mobs: I’ve killed the Champion Risen Abomination near Caer Shadowfain 15+ times in the last days. I got loot from it 4 times and it was blue/white stuff. I’m pretty sure I tagged it since i’m a high damage dealer and i stay on the event from start to finish. Also…i did it solo 1 or 2 times and in some other ocasions i did it with only 2-4 more people. Getting loot from a Champion (that takes a while to kill) 4 out of 15 times is extremely unrewarding and goes against everything stated on the patch notes.

Events: I farmed the Cursed Shore events a lot before the update. Those were crowded and it was challeging to tagg mobs sometimes. Now these events have far less people doing them and tagging mobs is much easier. However, i get less drops now and the quality of them is really low. Before I usually got 1-3 rares per event and now i’m lucky if i see 1-2 Rare per 10 (YES! TEN!) events. These are so unrewarding and frustrating (due to the low amount of people doing them) that i really don’t find myself having that much fun.

I hope you guys start giving some serious attention to this issue.
Best regards!

For Aproposs Of Fire:
Forgive the excision of the body of your text – post letter limits prohibit me reprinting it for ease of dialogue.
How exactly did I fail to read ‘more complete data’ out of it’s context? The context was inherent in the discussion, and was never deviated from. But feel free to explain that one a little more for clarity and/or context. I would be interested to read the actual context if I was wide of the mark.
As for trying to stir up trouble, as I have previously stated in the original thread of this topic over the last month (a thread that was, incidentally, full to the brim of people gathering data much the same as you are doing now), the last thing in the world I would choose to be doing after the nearly five year long wait for this game is bashing my keyboard with my face over this descent into shameful, money-dredging, underhanded rubbish.
The tactics that have been employed since the June Nexon incursion make me feel ill, and the only outlet available for any form of dissent is this forum, despite it’s heavy-handed moderation and echo chamber circles of shouting each other down.
I never claimed to be a helpful poster, I am simply exercising a fundamental freedom in thought, and offering an admittedly cynical slant on the actual cause and underlying reason to the situation.
Once again, we tried for more than a month in the original thread to have as close as possible to an approximation of empirical data presented in the same method you are attempting here. Look where that has led. You are advocating re-treading the same path once more, with a greatly depleted audience, in the hope that someone is now in a position at ArenaNet’s end to analyse your sudden revelation of loot data and make amends?
Putting yourself in the position you have, as the single-minded advocate for what you perceive to be an open-ended exchange of data and dialogue with the developers is going to lead you nowhere. And your self-righteousness is far from apt, given the dwindling numbers of people who are going to be willing to band together for another round of the same.
Calling my arguments ‘baseless suppositions’ is a very tenuous stance, in light of the evidence that is available if you cast your eye further afield than simply focusing on playing follow the leader, and blindly devote yourself to the belief that if you jump through their hoops they will somehow concede, or reward you.
ArenaNet has already been given the benefit of the doubt. And this is what they have chosen to do with the opportunity and evidence we presented them. If you had followed this issue thoroughly through the last month in the now deleted thread, and the many other places it has bubbled up, you would be far better informed of the realities that you are dealing with.
Please refrain from challenging myself and others to take up your crusade. The endless item counts, the chronicles of picking through corpses for shinies to compare. It has been done already.
The fundamental purpose behind this reduction in open-world reward negates any sudden ‘oh my lordie here is the problem’ moment from the developers. The issue is beyond them, and far beyond us. It is not a bug, or a fault in code. It is intentional. The last week in this forum has proved that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Read wider, look at the greater picture. But don’t champion ArenaNet’s cause – they don’t have one. They code as they are told now.
Pardon my cynicism. I do wish you luck in your item reports.
Care to share an opinion on where you will stand in a few weeks’ time, when all your record-keeping and accurate data leads to a short, most likely slightly offensive statement from a staff member thanking everyone for their time, and the issue and thread is now closed for discussion because it has been ‘answered’ as they have deemed there to be no problem in their code?

Puffintoast – I appreciate you taking the time to explain your position. Its just that I don’t wish to accept that ANet is intentionally (whether due to external duress or not) nerfing drops. If I am proved wrong then I will sadly accept that I was wrong and begin treating this game as a P2P. I don’t stay long in P2P games.

Leamas – As a DBA, then, you probably are aware that sometimes or in some circumstances the network doesn’t always look or behave the same on the server-side as it does on the client-side. Perhaps you and Puffin are correct and the game is being abnormally skewed for profitability. Providing the devs this data from the client-side will give them what they asked for – what they do with it will determine the truth of the matter with clarity.

L80 Charr Guard, Frostgorge Sound, Earthshake WP, 12/24/12, 10:43pm EST, Borlis Pass server, 0% MF:

• Gift node = 2 Giant gift (ditched toy golems)
• Winter Root node = Parsnip
• Leeks node = Green onion
• Cyprus node = 3 Elder wood logs
• Longhorn Ram = 0 drops
  Eat 1 Sup Sharpening Stone & 1 Plate Truffle Steak Dinner 0% MF
• Dolyak = Savageable hide
• White Moa = Vicious claw
• Mith node = 3 ore + Ruby crystal
• Snow Truffle node = Snow truffle
• Snow Troll = Shamans Norn Focus of Air (yellow Lv80)
• Snow Troll = Giant gift + Potent blood
• Snow Troll = 0 drops
• Snow Troll = 0
• Snow Troll +Add Snow Troll = Large bone
• Looted Champion Snow Troll chest, ditched the Champ (lol) = Berserkers Mace (blue lv80) + Medallion of the Soldier
• Arctodus & Moose = Dark stained claw
• Arctodus = 0 drops
• White Moa = Sharp talon
• Lv79 Young Arctodus = 0
• Arctodus = 2 Dark stained claws
• Cyprus node = 4 Elder wood + Hidden trove
• Leek node = Leeks
• Arctodus = Rampagers Cabalist Hood (blue lv78)
• Arctodus = Salvageable hide
• Arctodus = Large fang
• Lv79 Young Arct = 0
  Glacial Collapse discovered
• Lv73 Eagle Griffon = Egg
• Gift node = Large gift + Sword (white Lv80)
  Stop @ Yaks Bend – approx. 40 minutes.

New Inventory after session:
4 Giant gifts; 1 Parsnip; 1 Green onion; 7 Elder wood logs; 2 Salvageable hides; 1 Vicious claw; 3 Mithril ore; 1 Ruby crystal; 1 Snow truffle; Shamans Norn Focus of Air (yellow Lv80); 1 Vial of potent blood; 1 Large bone; 1 Medallion of the Soldier; Berserkers Mace (blue Lv80); 4 Dark stained claws; 1 Sharp talon; 1 Hidden trove; 1 Leek; Rampagers Cabalist Hood (blue Lv78); 1 Large fang; 1 Egg; Sword (white Lv80).

After opening and salvaging the hides:
4 Giant gifts: 2 Ugly wool sweaters & 2 Flawless snowflakes;
1 Hidden trove: Coral tentacle
2 Salvageable hides: 4 Thick leather hides.

Aproposs Of Fire – So, you’re suggesting that, somehow, the server-side is saying ‘The roll indicates a yellow-80’ and the client-side is saying ’Here’s a Porous Bone.’? Really? Because that would indicate far more serious problems.

Puchbol.9035:

Aproposs Of Fire – So, you’re suggesting that, somehow, the server-side is saying ‘The roll indicates a yellow-80’ and the client-side is saying ’Here’s a Porous Bone.’? Really? Because that would indicate far more serious problems.

No.

But that would kitten, wouldn’t it?

Edit: However you’re implying a database-related cause to the issue which would be serious – but I would expect to see other red flags in that case like perhaps out of range errors. That’s just a guess; you’d have to ask Leamus as she or he is the dB admin.

But what if the Nov. patch inadvertently reset a global variable due to a typographical error? Say for instance (and I’m just pulling these variable names out of my puppy, err kitten) the patch code accidentally reassigned $Loot_Table_A8943 to look in db location a8943 or A8934 and both are valid loot tables and/or locations. So if one of the locations is for rare items and the other is for common items the code won’t throw an exception or error because they are both valid. BUT the dev who is looking for an issue might overlook the typo in the variable declaration.

Edit again: And this is actually plausible in terms of tracking down the bug because unlike linear programming, object-oriented programming (or at least Java) allows you to set or reset a variable out of the blue right in the creation of an object or the coding of a function without ever having to declare it up front. So tracking down a bug that’s not throwing errors is even harder if it’s due to a typo that is embedded within an object or function.

I’ve been running CoE daily for about a month now with the same 4 people. How come I receive 1 core per two paths if I’m lucky and one dude receives at least 3 cores in the same 2 paths?

This has been going on consistently for a month now. Explain this bullkitten without using the words “lucky” and “RNG”.

More and more each day I’m starting to lose any desire to play. Something has to change soon for gods sake.. I’m doing events regularly and I’m not receiving any meaningful loot. I’m getting so frustrated at this I can’t even express it.

Sythus.2396:

More and more each day I’m starting to lose any desire to play. Something has to change soon for gods sake.. I’m doing events regularly and I’m not receiving any meaningful loot. I’m getting so frustrated at this I can’t even express it.

Thank God we have this brand new activity of killing mobs, noting down the loot and post our findings here. It is really refreshing and challenging.

I hope you guys are getting paid for doing the job of Anet empolyees.

Alright – here are the totals for my 3 hours of PvE yesterday with 2 breaks in between:

5 – Whites

• 45c [x] 1 Chainmail Shoulders (white lvl60),
  50c [x] 1 Acolyte Shoes (white lvl 76);
  70c [x] 1 Sword (white Lv80).
  56c [x] 1 Chainmail Footgear (white lvl 76);
  4s30c [x] 1 Axe (white lvl 80);

5 – Blues

• 25c [x] 1 Vital Worn Chain Greaves (blue lvl18);
  67c [x] 1 Shaman Cabalist Boots (blue lvl 80).
  64c [x] 1 Travelers Orrian Shield (blue lvl 76);
  81c [x] 1 Rampagers Cabalist Hood (blue Lv78);
  1s0c [x] 1 Berserkers Mace (blue Lv80);

3 – Yellows

• 67c [x] 1 Pile of Putrid Essence (yellow lvl 400 mat);
  25s85c [x] 1 Shamans Norn Focus of Air (yellow Lv80);
  15s84c [x] 1 Carrion Rogue Pauldrons of Strength (yellow lvl61);

and these items:
67c [x] 14 Giant gifts;
42c [x] 1 Medium gift;
79c [x] 1 Large gift;
15c [x] 1 Parsnip;
11c [x] 1 Green onion;
17c [x] 7 Elder wood logs;
26c [x] 2 Salvageable hides;
11c [x] 2 Tattered hides;
5s40c [x] 1 Vicious claw;
37c [x] 1 Tiny Claw;
67c [x] 1 Small claw;
57c [x] 3 Mithril ore;
11c [x] 3 Platinum ore.
12c [x] 3 Iron ore;
7c [x] 15 Silver ore;
2s45c [x] 3 Ori ore;
2s89c [x] 1 Ruby crystal;
50c [x] 1 Topaz nugget;
58c [x] 1 Amethyst nugget;
99c [x] 1 Carnelian Nugget;
86c [x] 1 Snow truffle;
92c [x] 1 Vial of potent blood;
1s31c [x] 2 Vials of Thin Blood;
27c [x] 1 Vial weak blood;
87c [x] 4 Large bone;
1s0c [x] 2 Heavy bones;
1s27c [x] 1 Hidden trove;
8c [x] 1 Leek;
1s0c [x] 1 Small fang;
86c [x] 1 Large fang;
32c [x] 6 Egg;
25c [x] 3 Incandescent Dust;
69c [x] 1 Luminous dust;
11s8c [x] 1 Unidentified Dye;
12c [x] 2 Saffron thread;
1s83c [x] 5 Heavy Moldy Bags;
60c [x] 2 Medium ritual bags;
35c [x] 1 Small ritual bag;
64c [x] 1 Ritual sack;
77c [x] 1 Sack of skritt shinies;
52c [x] 2 Discarded garments;
65c [x] 1 Frayed garment;
49c [x] 2 Tiny scales;
17c [x] 3 Tiny venom;
37c [x] 2 Thyme leaves;
27c [x] 1 Ugly wool sweater;
22c [x] 1 Metal scrap;
9c [x] 2 Dull claws;
2c [x] 14 Broken claws;
16c [x] 4 Dark stained claws;
9c [x] 4 Crumbling bones;
16c [x] 4 Porous bone;
16c [x] 1 Sharp talon;
2c [x] 11 Broken fangs;
16c [x] 1 Clump of resin;
2c [x] 2 Globs of Globby Goo;
9c [x] 2 Hot stones;
9c [x] 1 Gear;
1s11c [x] 1 Medallion of the Soldier;

TOTAL (for just drops) : 1g 35s 84c

So how short is this from what is expected? Is this a terribad result? If this is not acceptable what would be an acceptable result from 3 hours of open PvE play not counting events, hearts and the other currencies?

Note #1: Calculating the salvageables and containers both un-salvaged/unopened and salvaged/opened it is clear that it is more profitable to leave them unsalvaged and unopened.

Note #2: This data is derived using both + Magic Find and 0 Magic Find. The effectiveness of MF is in question among the player base and as you can see from my sessions doesn’t really make a large impact on the quality of drops when using MF and when not using it. Since this topic is MF-neutral the results will not take it into account.

Note #3: The play sessions this is based upon do not include dynamic events at all. Multiplying rewards by including PvE activities that also counted toward dynamic event rewards can only increase the grand total and would in no way decrease the final rewards.

Note #4: The grand total is after all waypoint fees which I did not minimize in my play. In other words, I way-pointed much more than I do normally so that I could get the most out of food buffs. I normally use EB -> LA -> local hub city when I am playing open PvE and therefore I accrue little or no WP fees.

Note #5: One of the sessions takes place in Level 15-18 areas – lower rewards would be expected. One session is in Level 70-80 areas. One session is in Level 80 area.

(continued – balance carried over: 1g 35s 84c)

Taking all currency types and assuming all event opportunities:

Available dynamic events & renown hearts:
(Only junk drops are assumed for these events)

• Frostgorge Sound -> Glacial Collapse = Help Scholar Inka – reward mail = 3s11c; Ice Stone drops from Ice Imps (20/2 * 16c) = 1s6c; Total: 4s17c + karma. (NOTE: Mob counts = 20 average total # of mobs available and only killing/getting drops from half of them.)
• Cursed Shore -> Anchorage WP = Help Crusader Talesin – Average gold reward = 1s62c – Average Karma reward = 328 Karma; Porous bone drops (20/2 * 16c) = 1s6c; Total: 2s68c + karma
• Cursed Shore -> Anchorage WP = Rid the Pact camp of tar elems: Average gold reward = 1s62c – Average Karma reward = 328 Karma; Clumps/resin drops (20/2 * 16c) = 1s6c; Total: 2s68c + karma
• Cursed Shore -> Anchorage WP = Statue of Melandru & Harbringer Torch & Sunken Rations Skill points = 3 Skill points
• Diessa Plateau -> Gram Hills WP = Assist Lakor Grizzlemouth – reward mail = 98c
• Diessa Plateau -> Gram Hills WP = Defend Rimtooth – Average gold reward = 37c – Average Karma reward = 75 Karma – Broken claw drops = (20/2 * 2c) = 10c: Total: 47c + karma
• Diessa Plateau -> Gram Hills WP = Assist Bloodsaw Mill Workers – reward mail = 1s28c – Average gold reward = 2s55c; Average Karma reward = not given on the wiki; Total 3s83c + karma.

Sub-total events: 14s 81c + 3 Skill points + 731 Karma + x Karma not found on wiki

Grand Total: 1g 50s 65c + 3 Skill points + 731plus Karma
Possible way-point fee savings not included.
Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

So let us know how far off is a Gold and a Half per average open-PvE session plus all other currencies available. What would be a reasonable amount of gold and other currencies for this combined low & high level areas session?

Triple-posting; but I didn’t want to mix in my opinions with the above (fact- and wiki-supported) summaries.

The contribution of these sessions to Daily and Monthly achievement rewards is not taken into account… Neither are the availability of dungeon & fractal rewards, monthly special event rewards, jumping puzzle chests, WvW & sPvP rewards given any consideration.

And lets not forget there are free-standing, unguarded chests littered around Tyria to be had. (They aren’t easy to see – but keep an eye out for them – they are usually camouflaged with their surrounding environment.) They are unlocked and freely available to all.

And finally, none of the above allows for the fact that this B2P game is FUN. At $60. for forever play – it’s cheap entertainment.

Would I like to get better rares and get exotics for every 3 hours that I play? Yes. Anyone would – but lets assume just a minimal world-wide player population of 100,000.

100k players multiplied by 1.5 golds every 3 hours PLUS all the extra loot, chests, rewards the above doesn’t add in equals a huge in-game economy. How would even more affect the economy? I definitely don’t want even more gold-sinks.

Was there a change after the November patch? This is the real question that this thread is addressing. I think yes there was. Does it make the game un-playable? After the above testing, I don’t think so. Do Veterans and Champions need to drop good loot every time? Yes, absolutely. Do they need to drop outstanding loot every time? No.

I didn’t focus on the Vets I killed in the above and I avoided Champs completely but I will grant and agree with you that Vets and Champs do not drop every time. Much less dropping good stuff. This is the same for even some Named Bosses!

This needs to be fixed – I believe that ANet intends to do this fix. Do I want the fix in place now? Yes. Am I likely to get that fix immediately? Not likely.

This is my opinion. I assume that those of you who are throwing a fit will ignore all of this. That’s up to you.

But just know that you are sucking the fun out of the game for yourselves, at least, and for many others who are reading your rants as well. (And I’ll get the pithy quote in before RedBaron this time: “Misery loves company.” But you all may not and will not suck the fun out of the game for me.)

Finally a note for purely selfish purpose: I assume that ANet is reading this… I would like a LOT more stuff in the Gem Store.

@Aproposs

While I respect what you’re doing here, and admire your dedication to perform ANet’s employees jobs for them, I must stress that the game -isn’t- in beta anymore. Your call to arms for us all to ‘beta test’ for ANet when we already bought the game is outrageous. If we were all still participating in beta, maybe I’d be more inclined to do this. But the fact of the matter is, there was already a thread for a month, with lots of data for ANet to use. They blatantly ignored the thread (which remained on the front page of this forum) for a full month before giving a single reply and locking the thread.

Do you really expect them to jump to communicate with us on this, identical but ‘approved’ thread when they didn’t have the courtesy to respond at all over a month, while openly admitting in the AMA to dodging the question? If I had any hope that ANet would really take this seriously, maybe I would join you on your crusade. But after watching that thread and the lack of response, I just don’t have it in me to extend the benefit of the doubt any further. After a point, it becomes hard to do that.

Maybe if I see something positive and transparent from ANet I’ll join you in posting my loot logs; hell, I’ll even make it into a legitimate spreadsheet for easy viewing.

Ansimika – Feel free to post or don’t post. From my preliminary testing I find that I am fine (but not completely satisfied – but I would never admit satisfaction anyway) with the amount I am getting from drops alone. When all the other sources of in-game gold are factored in (and still not even including playing the TP) I think the opportunities are there.

Would I like for ANet to develop a more excellent loot system that will revolutionize the MMO industry? Yes definitely. If that were possible and if it would need the cooperation of existing players I believe there are more than enough players who will gladly pitch in to help.

So by no means should you or anyone feel obligated to do any testing to that goal.

That is not the point of this thread @Aproposs. You may be fine with how much you are getting, but you are doing the same thing many of us feel Anet is doing, brushing off a very big issue. Something changed. Something big. Loot is not as good as it was before. What changed? We don’t know. You have provided a lot of info, but so did the other thread. Was that info cataloged with this thread? I don’t know. I assume so, but from the information we get from Anet, it is hard to tell what they do with anything the community tells them.

We need more transparency from what they do with their patches and what they expect to happen. ‘Fixed several bugs’, well, what does that mean? If I don’t know what bug has been fixed how will I know it has been fixed? How will I know if it hasn’t been fixed? And by that i mean, if they say a bug is fixed and clearly I can reproduce it, then it is not fixed. Similarly, the tooltips and notes for skills, traits and other things need to say exactly what they do. How are we to know what a skill does and if it is broke or not if it doesn’t have the right info? Like the food buffs, most of them say +10 Experience from kills. 10% or 10 points? I know now it is supposed to be 10%, but in reality, that is not even right, or there is some crazy math to get that 10%. —Sorry.. tangent aside…

The problem right now is something changed that was not communicated to the community and many, many people have felt its change. Was it intentional, for whatever reason? If yes, then tell us so we can be on or merry way and concentrate on other things. If no, then we need to know it is being looked into and that we are being heard. We need MORE red posts from Anet, and not just with infractions and PR talk. If we know what direction they are heading then we can get there together as a community.

The Daily Tigirius loot report:

Today I wasn’t focused on farming I was helping out a newly leveled 80 friend with his personal exploration of the world and I was helping him kill veterans. Between what I killed with him and what I killed personally I have to say we killed 6 veterans. What dropped from these veterans for both of us? He got one blue.

I haven’t received a drop from a veteran since yesterday.

I haven’t received a rare since yesterday.

Edited: Removed a question that should be a thread of it’s own.

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Ansimika – Feel free to post or don’t post. From my preliminary testing I find that I am fine (but not completely satisfied – but I would never admit satisfaction anyway) with the amount I am getting from drops alone. When all the other sources of in-game gold are factored in (and still not even including playing the TP) I think the opportunities are there.

Would I like for ANet to develop a more excellent loot system that will revolutionize the MMO industry? Yes definitely. If that were possible and if it would need the cooperation of existing players I believe there are more than enough players who will gladly pitch in to help.

So by no means should you or anyone feel obligated to do any testing to that goal.

But, as a poster before me said, with the low level of communication ANet is having with their community, how are we supposed to know what direction they’re going? How do we know they’re out to develop a “more excellent loot system” or are just trying to distract us from the problem that is being swept under the rug? So far, there’s no evidence to the former and lots of speculation about the latter. ANet could easily put this speculation to rest, but instead they remain silent. What kind of message is this? All most people have wanted, from the beginning, was for ANet to acknowledge them, and not just blow them off with wording that is purposefully vague and, frankly, insulting.

I want to believe that Anet is looking into this, and I want to believe that they are trying to revolutionize the genre even further. But I just haven’t seen any indication of this or any positive action. Just more PR spin, more misdirection, and less real communication.

Edit: This was written with nacho’s post in mind, but I’ll also address it to Ansi as well b/c I think it might answer his/her reply to me.

What do I think? I think that at some point prior to the November patch, maybe long before or more recent – idk maybe when the bot purge happened – they found something that caused them to clam up in order to fix it.

Do I think it’s something that is anti-customer or meant to harm the players? No. Their history proves that they are in this to make a game that we will truly enjoy.

I also think that real-life economic realities have at least something to do with the business side of things. And I think this Nexon thing that some are shouting about is probably small-potatoes compared to global economic conditions that exist – possibly even completely coincidental in the bigger picture. (Edit: After all – Nexon is known for Buy2Win cash shops – does it look like to you all that GW2 is getting into that? It doesn’t to me.)

I do know that this thread proves that they are completely willing to hunt down and kill any bug that might be in the code.

They’re just not going to talk about it. I respect that. Because there are a lot of code related things that they cannot talk about without enabling exploiters and gold farmers.

I’ll say that again – they cannot and will not talk about what we want them to talk about because it will enable the botters. This protects all of us honest gamers.

tigirius.9014:

The Daily Tigirius loot report:

Today I wasn’t focused on farming I was helping out a newly leveled 80 friend with his personal exploration of the world and I was helping him kill veterans. Between what I killed with him and what I killed personally I have to say we killed 6 veterans. What dropped from these veterans for both of us? He got one blue.

I haven’t received a drop from a veteran since yesterday.

I haven’t received a rare since yesterday.

Edited: Removed a question that should be a thread of it’s own.

This post has my complete support. I know that it takes time to fix coding issues. I hope that the Veteran/Champ/Boss drop issues can get resolved quickly. This class of mob should be dropping above average loot because of the time it takes (usually) to take down this level of mob. I understand if it can’t be rare stuff always (sometimes would be appropriate and more often with Champs and above).

I agree that I do not need to know the EXACT thing they do to fix it or anything specific about the code, BUT… telling us respawns happen 95-120 seconds and we see respawns within seconds. THESE are the things that we need to know. Though, they STILL don’t think there is a problem. THIS is the issue. So, sometimes we do need to know more than what they are telling us so we can focus on the game and not on the numbers. Frankly, I think the whole business of curbing loot depending on the area is horrible. Talk about limiting where people want to play. Events and mobs should drop loot relevant to you no matter what level they are or don’t have downleveling, because that just makes it silly to go to lower level areas and work towards something so unrewarding for you.

I agree that Anet sets forth to make a great game. I loved GW1 and because of it I think this can be a great game. What concerns me is many things from GW1 that could have carried to GW2 have not happened. Not things that will come later.. those will come later. An example, Last login for guild members. WHY was this not included DAY 1? The Anet that brought GW1 is great, but so far, we have been given a lot of PR double speak that just makes people uneasy.

I am fine if something takes awhile to fix or create. We’ve waited how long for this game? But, what I want to know now is that something is wrong and that it is being looked into/fixed. You don’t have to give me an ETR but something more than “Perceived strange drop behavior”. Really, I think perceived is a little condescending after the previous threads. How about “Please assist us with drop patterns” or “We are investigating and need more data”.

Back to more relevant info to this thread, I have been going for zone completions today and have received very little actual loot. A couple blues, 1 green, and 1 rare, many hooves and broken lockpicks. Several Veterans didn’t drop anything, though several dropped gray items. The only reason that I find today worthwhile to play is that I am doing zone completion.

nacho – I can’t even pretend to understand what’s going on about communication. Except to say that I also think that OP was out of line to cast doubt openly on the customer as was done. That did not exhibit due professionalism at all.

My main is a guardian, so early respawns aren’t really an issue for that character but I can imagine that more squishy professions would have to be creative in handling a quick respawn. You will have noticed from my loot report especially in CS that I had several insta-respawns.

With downleveling and going back to early levels – this was something that was a ‘selling-point’ pre-release. I think they figured that just having the challenging environment at lower level would make the mechanic attractive. And it does as far as that goes putting aside the fact that high traits and skills and armor trivializes it. I’m pretty sure that pre-release they did state that all loot was not going to be level appropriate. I wonder if balancing concerns forces them to drop at least some zone-appropriate loot regardless of level?

On the last login issue, I don’t have a clue. It makes me wonder if they’ve gotten a lot of feedback from people who don’t want that. I can’t think of another reason for not having it. Unless there is some new legal privacy thing that’s come up since GW1? That’s just speculation – idk.

I was not able to play the last 2 days because of holidays. So by that my DR should have reset plenty. However I did my daily level 30 for Fractals and again I mostly got porous bones and greens/blues. The exception was the boss maw chest which dropped 2 yellows and 1 core.

I have not gotten one of the Shards of Mist Essence for 2 weeks now. I have not seen a mob drop a yellow since the game update 4? days ago.

After the update the level 30 run I did I got around 6 yellows and 5 cores. The next run was 4 yellows. Next day 2 Yellows from maw chest, mostly porous bones and 2green 1 blue item in every non maw chest.

Today out of 6 boss chests (non maw) I got a total of 1 yellow. Other teammember got 12 yellows, another 7.

So I do think there is not only a DR on chest loot and mob drops but its simply bugged for my Guardian. I will try to level up my Mesmer to see if there is a difference in character or if this issue is account wide.

Eldiora.5836:

So I do think there is not only a DR on chest loot and mob drops but its simply bugged for my Guardian. I will try to level up my Mesmer to see if there is a difference in character or if this issue is account wide.

I typically only do open world with the occasional dungeon thrown in, but Ive had the same experience with my necro. I might get the odd rare on the VERY rare occasion, but overall I get garbage drops whether it be from a mob or a chest, a veteran or champion. After nearly 300 hours in game, all in all the whole situation is disheartening and I haven’t even played in nearly a week. I continue to follow this thread daily in hopes that the situation might get rectified.

Killed 27 veterans today in cursed got 1 rare. Several dropped nothing 1 dropped a green rest were blues and mat/salvage/trash.

Killed 6 champions today in cursed as well got 1 blue, 1 porous bone, and nothing from rest

Here’s my deal with this…..if a vet/champ doesn’t have a ratio of drop equivalent to the increased amount of time it takes to kill it vs a standard foe…it simply isn’t worth killing it. In other words if a regular foe takes 20 seconds to down then a veteran that takes 3 times as long to take down…that veteran needs to have at least 3 times the chance at a better drop to be worth killing. Same goes for champions but ofc with the ratio adjusted for the added time. Otherwise we are simply better off killing 3x, 5x, or whatever the number of regular foes and skipping the champion/veteran all together. Same principle applies to dungeons and why players skip everything that’s not required.

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

Triple-posting; but I didn’t want to mix in my opinions with the above (fact- and wiki-supported) summaries…

…This is my opinion. I assume that those of you who are throwing a fit will ignore all of this. That’s up to you.

But just know that you are sucking the fun out of the game for yourselves, at least, and for many others who are reading your rants as well. (And I’ll get the pithy quote in before RedBaron this time: “Misery loves company.” But you all may not and will not suck the fun out of the game for me.)

Finally a note for purely selfish purpose: I assume that ANet is reading this… I would like a LOT more stuff in the Gem Store.

So you triple post and decry everyone else whose opinion differs from yours as ‘having a fit’, and declare our posts and dialogues as nothing more than a ‘rant’, and conclude with the unbelievably asinine statement that it is all of us that are sucking the fun out of the game for others who are reading our posts?
Have you stopped for even one moment to consider why people would be dissatisfied and would consequently be reading, or posting in this thread?
And then, once this particularly inflammatory posting has concluded, you venture on to another post where you have once again brought up your concept of working with the developers to ‘revolutionize’ the MMO loot system, and declare yourself and many others as willing assistants for it’s conceptualisation.
All your posts thus far that contained your collected loot data existed solely for you to provide a base for your gradually emerging assertion that you are, as an individual, thoroughly content with the system as it stands post mid-November.
Yet this thread is a supposedly a platform solely for those who wish to post aberrant findings and what they term ‘deviations’. Not a place for yet another insipid proponent of the ‘I Love Everything They Do’ movement.
There are plenty of threads for you to aggrandize in. Perhaps your continuing presence in a thread that was designed for the discussions of grievances with the current system could be viewed as an elaborate provocation when you resort to continual declarations of your own satisfaction, and then to reiterate the clear deficiencies of anyone whose point of view is contrary to your own re-stated happiness with the topic?
And fear not on the dearth of goodies for you in the gem store. These are very early days for Maple Story 2.

Since we are doing our best to update you with data about drops (which you should be able to get yourself tbh), will we be updated aswell about the situation.

Already more then a month since the first post about this issue and 4 days since this thread has been made, we should be updated atleast each day/2 days.

I hope you do realize that this is a huge issue that has caused many players to leave the game or put it on halt.

I perceive that your patch notes are inaccurate because in reality I have killed many champions with no drop…it is even worse with veterans. Like many have said, it is likely your anti-bot DR system that is hosing us legitimate players. Meanwhile despite reporting bots not only are the same ones I. Southsun shores – more are joining them.

Concrete data #1: I have received nothing but one blue from any champion or veteran I have killed since my last post. One blue item. Nothing but blues and greens from any dragon chest (althought chests are not what my main concern is, just throwing that in there).

Concrete data #2: Desire to play diminishing daily.

Puffin – I am sorry to understand from your post that you ignored all but a few small cherry-picked portions of my posts to reply to. If you were to go back and read you will find that I far from love everything they do:

Not a place for yet another insipid proponent of the ‘I Love Everything They Do’ movement.

You will also note (if you are willing to go back and look) that my testing runs gather almost all what someone calls “trash/salvage/junk” drops with only a couple rares that are worth low amounts. Regardless of all of the ‘trash’ drops I accumulated over 1-1/2 golds.

Please answer my question, then, so that we can know what you expect if it’s different:

Grand Total: 1g 50s 65c + 3 Skill points + 731plus Karma
Possible way-point fee savings not included.
Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

So let us know how far off is a Gold and a Half per average open-PvE session plus all other currencies available. What would be a reasonable amount of gold and other currencies for this combined low & high level areas session?

Please answer – what is an acceptable amount of rewards if this is not acceptable? Are you suggesting that, like another person above, we should be getting 6 rares and 5 cores on each run?

Does it not occur to you that (lets say there are 100k players) if all of the player population were to get 6 yellows and 5 cores every 3 hours that those yellows and cores will no longer be rare? Doesn’t it make sense that if drops fell like that there would no longer be 1-1/2 golds per 3 hour session?

I really am interested in knowing what your answer is to these questions, please. And thank you for the dialogue. -Apro

Edit: Again, I add my voice to those others who are reporting poor & NO drops from Vets/Champs/Named Bosses. This situation should be resolved b/c as someone else said it really is futile to fight these higher level mobs when one can take the same amount of time and get the same or even better drops from trash mobs.

We have every reason to skip and avoid Vets/Champs/Bosses whenever possible.

So how short is this from what is expected? Is this a terribad result? If this is not acceptable what would be an acceptable result from 3 hours of open PvE play not counting events, hearts and the other currencies?

I expect not less than 1g per hour. This time you can have 1.5s from each mithril node, 7.5s from each orichalcum node. It is more profitable to harvest everything around than kill mobs.
so…

TOTAL (for just drops) : 1g 35s 84c

It is too far from my expectations.

Also we can not accept such sentences like these:

Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

…not counting events, hearts and the other currencies

ezd.6359:

Also we can not accept such sentences like these:

Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

…not counting events, hearts and the other currencies

Why not? -A

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

ezd.6359:

Also we can not accept such sentences like these:

Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

…not counting events, hearts and the other currencies

Why not? -A

Unknown amount of “other currencies”, really?

It is impossible to assess such things. If you want to compare something, put it in same categories and define all variables.

I know this is the holiday season, but Anet can we please have clarification on the champion and veteran drop issue? There should be enough evidence to indicate something is wrong. The patch notes said this would bring the drops inline with work required, this is not the case.

I have explored a number of maps and taken down every champion I could find (barr Orr, far to much trouble :P) and have not received a single drop above a blue, nothing worth more than a silver. For example I solo’d the Champion Drake Broodmother in Frostgorge Sound. Drop – a single blue piece of armor worth 40c or so. 10 minutes straight, dealing with the champion and all the mobs which constantly reswawn during the fight. This content isn’t ‘easy’. Even lower level champions require focus as they can easily take you down if you make 2 mistakes, which is less forgiving than many dungeon situations or other open world events…. Yet, it’s almost guaranteed that killing two normal mobs would give more worthwhile loot in a third of the time and effort invovled. In my above example, the mats dropped from the normal mobs re-spawning in the same are during the fight are worth far more the the champion that actually requires focus to kill.

This imbalance really needs to be sorted out. Based on the work required, can vets atleast drop a green and champions drop a yellow? Or atleast a decent chance towards it and other useful materials like high level mats. It isn’t going to destroy the economy, things may be a little cheaper but it will be a result of hard work, not luck.

Otherwise, any sense of accomplishment as a result of hard work (or whatever that means in the gaming world) is being thrown out the door in favor of luck. That is not cool.

Yeah, your drops (insert not so nice of a word)!
I don’t expect to get rich, but when you play for hours and hours and get really really poor drops and sorry pay-offs for quests, it kinda puts a damper on playing.

ezd.6359:

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

ezd.6359:

Also we can not accept such sentences like these:

Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

…not counting events, hearts and the other currencies

Why not? -A

Unknown amount of “other currencies”, really?

It is impossible to assess such things. If you want to compare something, put it in same categories and define all variables.

EZD – You appear to be conveniently ignoring my very next post (the one that says “continued”) where I indeed quantify the minimal values as determined via the GW2 wiki. My final grand total treats all of these currencies as separate values:

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:
(continued – balance carried over: 1g 35s 84c)

Taking all currency types and assuming all event opportunities:

(Details of the minimal rewards of events that can be expected here)

Available dynamic events & renown hearts:
(Only junk drops are assumed for these events)
Sub-total events: 14s 81c + 3 Skill points + 731 Karma + x Karma not found on wiki

Grand Total: 1g 50s 65c + 3 Skill points + 731plus Karma
Possible way-point fee savings not included.
Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

As you can see it is possible to assess these things, as I did when I proved that the grand total is actually over 1-1/2 golds PLUS the other currencies listed categorically.

Now, to just cover your other assertion that 1g per hour is the minimum and combine that with your objection of the notation that drops from low level areas cannot be accepted.

(I am tempted to point out that the 3 hours I spent on my runs should actually be reduced to 1.5-1.75 hours when you consider that I spent up to half my time writing down my drops and activities. During those times I was not profitably occupied. However, I won’t hold you to addressing that. But just to point out that my results are very close to what you are saying is acceptable rewards of 1g per hour already.)

ezd.6359:

I expect not less than 1g per hour.
Also we can not accept such sentences like these:

Please also note that 1/4 of these sessions is in Level 15-18.

…not counting events, hearts and the other currencies

So what you seem to be saying is that we should be getting 1g per hour as a Level 80 character in Cursed Shores AND 1g per hour as a Level 15 character in Diessa Plateau.

Doesn’t the risk of in-game economy inflation worry you at all? And again, what would be the point of any of the 100k+ players (it’s probably more like millions in population) to ever go to Cursed Shores if they can get the same rewards in Diessa Plateau? And finally, what would a level 15 character spend all that gold on? They can’t use the armor, weapons and etc. that are available in the level 80 high-end economy. “Lower levels = lower rewards” is a completely reasonable mechanic for an MMO.

Therefore, I assert that noting the lower loot opportunities available in level 15 areas as a limiting factor is valid.

Further, I assert that noting the sources of rewards that I left on the table during my runs is valid. I even quantified the absolute minimum that can be expected from those sources.

Finally, I assert that given all the income opportunities that I avoided during my runs coupled with the fact that my actual productive play time is reduced due to record-keeping that 1g per hour might actually be available now in-game.

Addendum: I will not argue your point here:

ezd.6359:
It is more profitable to harvest everything around than kill mobs.

Because a guildie and I were discussing this very topic just the other day. He believes as you do on this and I am open to that possibility not taking sides one way or the other.

OK, so I had more free time today and nothing else to do than to grind/farm/wahtever.
I farmed Cursed Shore events for about 7 hours straight (plinx, penitent, shelter, temples, etc) and I must admit that I DID NOT FELT hit by DR for most of the time. I say most of the time because every 1 hour I was getting nothing but porous bones for like 20 mins. After that all went back to normal.
OL, normal is bit over the top but at least I am getting some greens and rares. Rares drop approximately 1 per hour (or 4 events) which is nice but not even close to the rate as it was before Lost Shores patch where I could expect at least 1 per event without any MF.

Now as I see economy, especially Charged Lodestones (because I need those), you could either try to farm them in the open with average 1 per 5-6h drop rate OR farm events and earn 4 to 7 gold in the same time. Both ways are extremely boring and cannot be considered any form of fun.

Bartas.4908:

OK, so I had more free time today and nothing else to do than to grind/farm/wahtever.
I farmed Cursed Shore events for about 7 hours straight (plinx, penitent, shelter, temples, etc) and I must admit that I DID NOT FELT hit by DR for most of the time. I say most of the time because every 1 hour I was getting nothing but porous bones for like 20 mins. After that all went back to normal.
OL, normal is bit over the top but at least I am getting some greens and rares. Rares drop approximately 1 per hour (or 4 events) which is nice but not even close to the rate as it was before Lost Shores patch where I could expect at least 1 per event without any MF.

Now as I see economy, especially Charged Lodestones (because I need those), you could either try to farm them in the open with average 1 per 5-6h drop rate OR farm events and earn 4 to 7 gold in the same time. Both ways are extremely boring and cannot be considered any form of fun.

4 to 7 gold???Farming those events for 7 hours should have netted you at least 17-20g. Also, farming Charged lodestones should yield approximately 1 per hour based on my experience.

I’m not sure how you farm but whether i put MF gear on or not i make over 15G in 5 hours by farming those same events except plinx

I’m not going to itemize a list as I feel it’s a waste of time and that ANet should be able to pull that data themselves. However, a general observation… Last night, I played for about an hour and a half, the first time I played in about a week…so plenty of time for DR to reset. I farmed events in Cursed Shore. While I still had a disproportionate amount of porous bones, something like 97, I did get several greens and two rares (Both Orian…of the Air). In short, I didn’t feel my time was completely wasted. In general, veterans still dropped garbage, best was a single green, didn’t fight any champs or bosses. While, I don’t necessarily always expect things I can use, I do expect reward proportionate to the effort. Now, I suspect if I were to log in tonight, I’ll get hit with my usual DR and get nothing as it’s seems this is the pattern after an extended period not logged in…not sure the time will be there though.

@puffintoast, i completely agree.

To me, a simple solution would be to scrap the asinine DR mechanics. Didn’t they post official information on the blog about more than 30K bot accounts terminated and their population being greatly reduced? Then remove DR, as it is only punishing legit players. If i’m supposed to play the way i want, i shouldn’t be forced to run dungeons.

I have stopped playing until i see some positive change. I don’t expect them to reply much being christmas and all, after all, they still deserve a rest as much as everybody. Communication IS poor but they won’t be able to ignore this issue forever.

Happy holidays to all.

There is an issue with drops from Champion mobs. They should drop more then just blues and greens and whites. If they ever drop anything.

Over the last few days I have fought quite a few champs across tyria and I have nothing to show for it. Not even whites drops. I’d be happy if there was a chance to see a rare drop every now and again. I salvage those bad boys for ectos and other t6, t5 mats.

The dragon fights on the other hand sometimes get me a rare or two more times then not. A lot of blues and greens. Yet again I don’t mind the drop rates from dragons because I salvage everything. I usually get some sort of a profit.

The exotic drop rate is fine IMO. There are so many ways you can get exotics its not even funny. Tp, karma, dungeon tokens and PVP.

I guess for the players that want exotics to salvage for mats that might be something of a concern for them. Other then that its good that the exotic drop rate is low, it makes the mats worth something on the tp from them. As far as load stones etc..those should drop more times then not in dungeons. Seeing how I really do not care about those i am not sure the ways players are trying to get them now. Hell, have them drop off of champs in Orr or something. Add them to the Jormag fight. Like a 20-30% drop rate.
And btw i have 0% magic find. My drops seem to be on par with everyone else.

Exotics should never drop from random mobs or veterans. Ever. Actually vets should only drop greens and blues but at a really low percentage. If bots were to take those vets down and Anet upped the drop rates on them it would be disastrous.

IMO Exotics should only be “dropped” from Champs and Dragon fights out in the world. The other ways to get them is fine. Gold, Karma and tokens.

After more play time and whatnot, I do feel like perhaps this bug has something to do with the DR aswell. Some characters may or may not be getting their DR resetted and thus they get lower and lower drops till the rates are abysmal and don’t get resetted till a new patch comes or something and even then they may still have it.

I always find it curious also on how people say " hey’ let’s farm these mobs and what not , they drop good loot" and when we do, they get yellows/exotics and the only thing i’ve gotten were whites and blues with the occasional green in such a constant manner.

I’ve been playing since release, and it is quite frustrating that I can literally count all the exotic drops i’ve gotten with one hand as loot even running with full magic find gear and let’s not get started on fractals. Its kinda ridiculous how much dailies i’ve done and only gotten 3 rings out of it.

Ath.2531:

4 to 7 gold???Farming those events for 7 hours should have netted you at least 17-20g. Also, farming Charged lodestones should yield approximately 1 per hour based on my experience.

I’m not sure how you farm but whether i put MF gear on or not i make over 15G in 5 hours by farming those same events except plinx

3 gold per hour? You know I’ve heard people say they get these kind of returns from CS events but I guess I’ve always assumed they are exaggerating.

I’m certain a lot of us reading here would like to know how you do this, please. -A

Errtu.8276:

ok ok wait a min i see some people talking about 160 hours of game play and whining about not getting any good drops ok heres mine !!

My warrior that also my first character that i created in the first day of this game got 389 hours of game play with only 2-exotic drops and like no any other and overall my whole characters thief80 / ele 80 and //41 engi/25ranger/ i got 785 hours of gameplay and also i tried to beat the story that was bugged like hell, when all other peep farmed WvW trains and instances all i get was notthing till you guys decided to send pact tokens like 3 weeks after my 2nd character finished the story, and i get only exotic drops from map completions that usually give either non-usable by my character or low level than it suppose to be

Ty again for failing me in ever aspect that game offers !!!

But dont worry i already kinda solved the problem its all because i dont buy gems with real money right ? because it unlocks a limitter on magic find and luck right ? thats what i will believe till i think every player in this game is equal but they are not and never be …

I can say that this isn’t true because I have dumped a ton of money into this game buying gems and I get the same crappy drops as everyone else. I got two exotic drops since launch (early access actually) and one was a harpoon and the other a speargun.

Aproposs Of Fire.4056:

One more reason to hate Java, if they look for the loot table that is 99% porus bone 1% random level 80 white, would be a good start.

Listen, you can believe Approposterous Fire or you can believe your own experience. I can tell you with no doubt the loot value and quality changed on November 15th and I would challenge any unbiased person playing this game to prove me wrong you included (good luck since there are no records prior). You may think because you can post what you have looted it’s the truth but if this is at all tied to DR your case means nadda. You want real proof so do I, and that can only come from an Anet employee coming here and saying to me point blank they changed nothing on November 15th and I can guarantee that won’t happen…why because their own patch notes say the opposite.
You want proof call them out on your defense otherwise you’re posts are all speculation and no validity!

One last point, does anyone really think people would waste all this time complaining for nothing, really? Who exactly does that benefit. All rhetoric aside this is and can continue to be the best game ever made, the choice is theirs everything else is greedy shortsighted vision.

I take it that the previous post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Change-in-loot-parameters-or-a-bug-Merged/page/26
did not provide enough “concrete date” for our “perceived strange drop behavior” that the French Community Manager had to create another thread about it and close the previous thread?

Steven at least have the decency to provide a customer service response above that of condescending to your customers.

The drop rates have changed since the update.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Listen, you can believe Approposterous Fire or you can believe your own experience. I can tell you with no doubt the loot value and quality changed on November 15th and I would challenge any unbiased person playing this game to prove me wrong you included (good luck since there are no records prior).

Sorry – I never denied a Nov patch change. And by the way that would be Apreposterous Fire. -A

That’s the danger of not reading before you post. You assumed the worst and just jumped in.