Guild Wars 2

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

As someone that’s motivation to play this game is collecting AP but cares nothing about leaderboard AP. This could kill one of my biggest motivators to continue playing.

snip.

There will likely be dozens if not hundreds of collections. Only a small percentage will be tied to the gem store. And in theory people do farm keys to get tickets anyway, and will still be able to do so (if not quite as efficiently). It’s another thing to do. Many people got their skins without buying keys.

Still though, to me if they are going to require every black lion weapon set since they made it still going to feel like a cash grab just because of the sheer volume of tickets you would need, the market price of them since they have been released, and RNG related to the gem shop involved in the achievement system now.

With the exception of miniatures that were very obtainable, the AP system has always been game based accomplishments. Now we are seeing a gem store creep into the achievement system which understandably some people have a problem with. I am one of these people.

I’m not actually disagreeing with you. I just don’t care personally. 5 achievement points here and there aren’t going to make any difference at all to the game for me. Not even a little.

I don’t watch where I am on the leaderboards. I’m not competing with anyone. From my point of view, I just want buy the stuff I don’t like. Just like I decided not to collect gem store minis.

I still enjoy the game.

It may be just a hand full of collections worth of gemstore creep into the system now 5 here and 5 there, but that adds up. If people that don’t approve don’t say something now it could turn into collection of outfits, toys, and gathering tools from the gemstore as well. It could be well on down the line where AP is strongly gemstore based depending on how they handle the AP in these collections and anything else they might add.

There are already very few ways to measure and track your player accomplishment progression in this game. This is not something I would like to see get even partially based in what is purchased in the gem store. If AP turns into something that can be reasonably progressed by sliding your credit card, it would lose meaning…. atleast to me.

But by all means, have the collections, have rewards for them. Just leave AP out of it when it comes to things related to the gemstore.

I hate to tell you but it already is that. You can buy legendaries. Spent money on minis, spend money on gems to convert to gold to get all your cultural armors done, buy all the stuff you need to get to max level crafting, you can even buy dungeon runs to get your dungeon master title.

If that’s your complaint, you’re about two years too late.

Theoretically yeah you could. But are any of these things advertised on the gemstore besides the minis? No they are not. That is what makes them different. Thats what makes them a purchase or a gamble instead of an accomplishment, because the primary means of acquisition is the real money shop.

I would argue against the minis too, but those have been there since day 1.

Sounds a bit like you’re splitting hairs. A lot of people bought precusors or even legendaries with at least some real money. People have been spending real money for ages to get what they want in this game.

You can say this is a change, but in reality, it’s a relatively minor one. Anyway I don’t see enough complaints going live to stop it, but by all means. I’ll complain about it if you do. lol

The change is that there are now achievement points locked behind a RNG mechanism that is almost entirely (we will find out tomorrow) locked behind a gemstone item.

That is going backwards from your stand point of people buying gems to achieve in in-game objective such as a legendary For the first time ever in this game the primary avenue for achieving a in-game objective is purchasing gems. Spending money has really has nothing to do with it. Its the fact that an in-game accomplishment pushes you into a gemstore purchase is whats wrong and backwards.

Except for people who farm keys you mean.

What won’t be possible anymore from today on did I hear

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

Vayne.8563:

Mireles Lore.5942:

As someone that’s motivation to play this game is collecting AP but cares nothing about leaderboard AP. This could kill one of my biggest motivators to continue playing.

snip.

There will likely be dozens if not hundreds of collections. Only a small percentage will be tied to the gem store. And in theory people do farm keys to get tickets anyway, and will still be able to do so (if not quite as efficiently). It’s another thing to do. Many people got their skins without buying keys.

Still though, to me if they are going to require every black lion weapon set since they made it still going to feel like a cash grab just because of the sheer volume of tickets you would need, the market price of them since they have been released, and RNG related to the gem shop involved in the achievement system now.

With the exception of miniatures that were very obtainable, the AP system has always been game based accomplishments. Now we are seeing a gem store creep into the achievement system which understandably some people have a problem with. I am one of these people.

I’m not actually disagreeing with you. I just don’t care personally. 5 achievement points here and there aren’t going to make any difference at all to the game for me. Not even a little.

I don’t watch where I am on the leaderboards. I’m not competing with anyone. From my point of view, I just want buy the stuff I don’t like. Just like I decided not to collect gem store minis.

I still enjoy the game.

It may be just a hand full of collections worth of gemstore creep into the system now 5 here and 5 there, but that adds up. If people that don’t approve don’t say something now it could turn into collection of outfits, toys, and gathering tools from the gemstore as well. It could be well on down the line where AP is strongly gemstore based depending on how they handle the AP in these collections and anything else they might add.

There are already very few ways to measure and track your player accomplishment progression in this game. This is not something I would like to see get even partially based in what is purchased in the gem store. If AP turns into something that can be reasonably progressed by sliding your credit card, it would lose meaning…. atleast to me.

But by all means, have the collections, have rewards for them. Just leave AP out of it when it comes to things related to the gemstore.

I hate to tell you but it already is that. You can buy legendaries. Spent money on minis, spend money on gems to convert to gold to get all your cultural armors done, buy all the stuff you need to get to max level crafting, you can even buy dungeon runs to get your dungeon master title.

If that’s your complaint, you’re about two years too late.

Theoretically yeah you could. But are any of these things advertised on the gemstore besides the minis? No they are not. That is what makes them different. Thats what makes them a purchase or a gamble instead of an accomplishment, because the primary means of acquisition is the real money shop.

I would argue against the minis too, but those have been there since day 1.

Sounds a bit like you’re splitting hairs. A lot of people bought precusors or even legendaries with at least some real money. People have been spending real money for ages to get what they want in this game.

You can say this is a change, but in reality, it’s a relatively minor one. Anyway I don’t see enough complaints going live to stop it, but by all means. I’ll complain about it if you do. lol

The change is that there are now achievement points locked behind a RNG mechanism that is almost entirely (we will find out tomorrow) locked behind a gemstone item.

That is going backwards from your stand point of people buying gems to achieve in in-game objective such as a legendary For the first time ever in this game the primary avenue for achieving a in-game objective is purchasing gems. Spending money has really has nothing to do with it. Its the fact that an in-game accomplishment pushes you into a gemstore purchase is whats wrong and backwards.

Except for people who farm keys you mean.

Well we will find out if this is still practical tomorrow wont we?

Already a post about it. The keys remain at level 10. People will still keyfarm. It’ll take longer, but it’ll still happen. Some people will PvP for level up tomes to do it.

From what I understand from what I watched and read is….

You still get a key at level 10 story. The kicker is that the story is not available anymore until level 10. So it will take a significant amount of time to get to level 10 then complete the larger chunk the story to get your key.

There are varying opinions that suggest this may or not be viable but its a general conscientious this will take significantly longer than it does now. No matter how you slice it. The primary means will be the gemstore, even with people PvPing it takes awhile to get 10 level tomes to consistently farm these keys.

AP shouldn’t be related with gemstore. Gemstore should only be for cosmetic purpose, and making life easier (with infinite gathering tools for example). And that’s all, it houldn’t have any impact on the game itself. Having AP relying on cash shop is really disgusting, both minis and weapons (and maybe armors ? and gathring tools ? ) I know we can still buy them from the TP, but prices higher and higher, and stocks will just vanished, so the only way to get them will be to buy keys (and in the same time, they’ve nerfed keyfarming, huge coincidence, right ? :p )

http://www.gw2tp.com/item/67064-chaos-focus-skin (and only few people knows for the new AP at the moment)

Lol, then with key farm it would still take said around approx 1280-1792 tickets to be finished with all those achievements.

How long do you want to key farm, until you are done with all this ? 10 years??? longer?
if those freaking tickets wouldn#t at least locked behind this antosocial RNG mechanism, then this task would be at least alot more doable, when you would get for each chest that you open at least 1 guaranteed ticket or at least a guaranteed scrap so that you plan ahead at least, how long you really need to do this chore to finish it after a guaranteed set of effort/time.

But as long the chances for getting a ticket/scrap are like gambling with an antisocial asia grinder are like 0,1% or so, then it will take alot more effort and time to get this done alone through key farming, when its much likely that tons of tones of opened chests will be a fail and give you no ticket or no scrap at least.

Peopel would be surely also alot more willign to buy keys, if you would get a guaranteed ticket to draw that bad RNG tiger its tooths so that the bite doesn’t hurt so much you know…

I won’t speak even about the gold grind chore, what it would cost to buy every single black lion weapon from the TP, thats even more ridiculous and would go into the multiple thousands of gold, which 99,9% of all GW2 players don#t have…

there are plenty of ap that many people will never ever be able to get (historical) so no I dont see a problem with making black lion collections give points.

thats wrong goat.. anet is working on implementing a way to brign back season 1 as story journal repeatable living story, just like season 2 and once that is done, everyone who missed those older living story parts of season one, will be able to get those older historical achievements too.
It just takes some time, because anet has to make some changes here n there on the season 1, so that it will fit into the new system with that season 2 started!

PS: the only exception of historical achievements, that won’t be repeatable are the WVW Tournament Achievements…

I think they should add mini-packs and black lion keys for laurels like they did dye if they are going to be related to AP.

Probably the easiest fix adding a obvious in-game currency avenue to accomplish these collections without highly impacting the incentive to buy these items from the gemstore.

Orpheal.8263:

thats wrong goat.. anet is working on implementing a way to brign back season 1 as story journal repeatable living story, just like season 2 and once that is done, everyone who missed those older living story parts of season one, will be able to get those older historical achievements too.
It just takes some time, because anet has to make some changes here n there on the season 1, so that it will fit into the new system with that season 2 started!

PS: the only exception of historical achievements, that won’t be repeatable are the WVW Tournament Achievements…

Actually there are others, because some achievements never came back. The one that comes to mind off hand is the Mad King’s Jumping Puzzle. People got an achievement for it year 1 but it was a different achievement year 2.

There are several achievements tied to things that aren’t in the game now. Moa racing had an achievement, but you can’t get it now.

There are more but I can’t think of them now.

Whatever they do, they should do it quickly before the changes totally ruin the game economy forever and turn this game into Inflation Wars 2 because of everythign that you want for any collection will cost like multiple hundreds to multiple thousands of gold due to the supply being for everything nearly non existant.

Just look what anet did without that the patch is even there already to the minipet market, how prices skyrocketed.

The price for as exampel the mini largo nearly TRIPPLED itself costign from between 80-120 gold now like 360 gold around.

Some minis, that were before the patch like under 1 gold worth, skyrocketed by like 500% and cost now like 50 gold or so …
This is just ridiculous and Anet does nothign against these super price explosions that they are faulty for.
ANd just the same thign will happen with all of those black lion weapons, just only with the difference that doe to that they are much more rarer, and harder to get, their price explosions will hit the market even much stronger to the point, that I guess we might see eventually black lion weapons that are so rare in their supply, that people will sell them for nearly legendary prices I guess >.>

PS: oh yeah, I remember, I sadly didn’t got that Pumpkin Carver Achievenet/Title.. this really is one thing that peeps me off until today that it hasn#t returned yet with Halloween, but at least the hopes are up, that it will return hopefully one day on an other halloween and thats the point, where some of those other holiday related/activity related achievements (SAB) will fall under too in the future, for all of those people, which couldnt get those achievments on the first try.

Anet alos repeated the pavillion achievements, where I got on the second try for example my Liadri done, where i had on the first try not enough time for that.
So we can just hope, that some of the older historical stuff will get repeated later, just like ANet already has repeated some historical achievements in the past.

I’m thinking that for each guy who hates this another will love it. I’m thinking I get one drop from Jormag or whatever or dungeons a couple of times and sell them for enough cash to buy with gold a bunch of gems to buy keys.

Orpheal.8263:

About that mini argument, yeah, but minis aren#t locked behind a RNG mechanism to get a currency (Black Lion Tickets) from which you need like 5-7 just to get 1 single item of a set of like 16 items or so.
This means, if you want a complete set for 1 of those set achioevements, you can play with the RNG god for around 80-112 Black Lion Tickets and this just for 1 single weapon set.
Now multiply this by again 16 weapon sets that the game has already = 1280-1792 Black Lion Tickets that you would need to get just all of those achievements done!

This is ridiculous. Anet must think of us, that we all must be Croesus or what.
Minis aren’t locked behind such massive RNG mechanis, there you buy just a mini pack, yes then you have rng, but you aren’t forced to have first countless of tickets just to get your mini, no you get randomly directly a mini and that for an overseeable price that doesn’t require of you to be croesus to afford yourself all of this

Ok just going to say this… as of right now… all we know are there are BL collections… we HAVE NO IDEA the context in which they will be implemented…

Breathe and wait and see before you burn your house to the ground geez…

Of course we already know :

(7:16)

Each BL weapons has to be collected

Because you can buy gems with gold it’s impossible for GW2 to be P2W

I don’t see a problem with it. If the cost (in time or money) is prohibitive for people, I can’t see why they would worry about one, or even five or ten, Achievement points.

If it’s just the 100 or so people vying for the top of the Leaderboards, they will either find keeping their Display name there on that page worth it, or they will opt out. Even if all 100 opt out, I don’t know how much of a dent that will make in the game population.

All the items, as far as I understand, can be bought on the TP. So, there’s always a choice about spending cash or not. And surely, there are likely 100 people that can and will spend the cash to take the place of those missing AP hunters. Out of the million+ player population.

I certainly would not bother with that Achievement for the one point, or even five or ten points. It’s not that much. I might eventually get the Achievement for the reward, but probably only by accident much, much later in the life of the game, when I have too much money just like I ended up with in Guild Wars.

I’m looking forward to these changes, because it offers some of us that aren’t Dungeon-runners or TP-flippers another avenue of income.

Edit: I can’t imagine players would spend thousands of dollars for 10 Achievement points….and if they do, well that’s really on them. Just like those that opt to purchase a Legendary or other high-ticket item. It’s optional, there’s nothing forced about it.

Zaxares.5419:

It does potentially open the “p2w” can of worms, which is why I think it quite unlikely that we’ll have collections like “Fused Weapon Collection” or “Biconic Weapon Collection”. That said, we MIGHT have a small achievement like “Owns X/5 gem store skins” that gave maybe 10 AP at best.

Thats the way it should have been. But its already been shown in a video of the different categories (tracks?), with each skin category (Wintersday, Sclerite, Jade, Zodiac, etc) having its own set of achievements (which require all of the skins I believe). Though apparently they’re hidden ones and only show up if you have at least one of the skins.
see here: http://youtu.be/Y312p68sK4k?t=7m17s

AP doesn’t mean ANYTHING. Yes, you could make generalizations about AP: <1000,"oh, a new player’, >5k, "ah, experienced’. Why are people so QQ about this. Unless they release black lion equipment with higher than ascended stats it’s not P2W. Maybe people don’t understand that P2W means ‘pay to win’.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Shadowmoon.7986:

Not shown in WP preview but it was mentioned there were collection for Black Lion weapons sets. I am personally ok with this as long as no AP is rewarded for these collections. Also I would also not support collections that reward AP from the gemstore armor skins (for example aetherblade armor skin set) because it would just lead to the highest people on the leaderboard being only those who has the largest credit cards. In a game where there is no challenges, and no challenges being developed, this would definately turn into a p2w situation. Want to be top in the leader board, forget about maxing all 8 champion titles, forget about maxing out all wvw title tracks, just slide your credit card in and buy all the ap you want.

P2W what exactly? a meaningless position on an even MORE meaningless leaderboard? Most of the top players on there share their account info with family to maximize their play time… they also do EVERY daily and monthly and spend COUNTLESS hours in PVP… unless you have been doing it from day one you will NEVER catch them unless they quit the game sorry…

Sorry but I am ranked #19 EU (the more competive of the 2 AP leaderboards) and I never shared accounts. Your whole post is an insult just because YOU do not care about something.

tl;dr: AP for gemstore sets is stupid, this might ruin one of the last things I still enjoy about GW2 after over 6000 hours: collecting achievements

I’m okay with it since

• it’s optional and insignificant in terms of the core part of the game
• it lets ANet get more money from people who want to pay to do more stuff for people who don’t want to pay.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I’m okay with it since

• it’s optional and insignificant in terms of the core part of the game
• it lets ANet get more money from people who want to pay to do more stuff for people who don’t want to pay.

With tons of AP and treats hidden behind people who bought GW1, somehow I don’t think they mind people paying cash to get a few extra points.

You get AP for the mini collections,
most of which are got via gemstore.

this isn’t anything new, really.

First, if people want to spend gem store money just to get these achievements, more power to them – and thank you to them for supporting the game I play by buying things that will not, in any way impact how I play the game (win-win).

Second, even if keyfarming nerfs (which we do not know specifics about yet) do increase prices for these skins, they will STILL be available on the BLTC, meaning there will always be a way (even if it is very expensive) to get these achievements without using gems.

So, simply put, this is not pay to win at all. Its just a small part of a bigger system that we can all enjoy in some way, whether we spend money or not.

So buying gems to convert to gold in order to buy a legendary (which gives ap) is not p2w, but using gold to convert to gems in order to buy something in the gemstore is p2w?

No wonder the devs dont respond to the forums if these are the type of arguments people come up with.

I don’t see the BL sets awarding (all of 1 3) AP as “pay to win” as many seem to think. Obviously the gripe is about the AP involved, but lets look at it this way. Those sets give less total AP than Hobby Dungeon Runner, which is repeatable and maxes out at 200. Seriously, there are much easier ways to obtain AP.

Sizer.5632:

So buying gems to convert to gold in order to buy a legendary (which gives ap) is not p2w, but using gold to convert to gems in order to buy something in the gemstore is p2w?

No wonder the devs dont respond to the forums if these are the type of arguments people come up with.

So far gold had very limited affect on your achievement points. You definately made enough gold for all the achievements based on gold by the time you reach 20k+ AP. But explain me how I will make enough Gold to get about 2000 black lion tickets by playing the game. Only a trading post mogul might be able to do that. Anet adds a new set of black lion weapons almost every month so its almost impossible to catch up, too. It takes about 50 black lion keys per ticket on average I got told. Thats quite a lot.

GW1 achievements were entirely different and not pay to win. You had to spend about 1000 hours if you focused on getting all 500 AP without doing RMT or getting huge gifts from friends.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Ashen.2907:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Most of the top players on there share their account info with family to maximize their play time

That is a pretty interesting accusation, I’d love to see your source if you don’t mind..

several players directly that I know with excess of 23k AP…

ans no before you ask I am not going to out them for a TOS violation…

Do those, “several,” constitute more than half of all high end AP players ?

Malediktus.9250:

Sizer.5632:

So buying gems to convert to gold in order to buy a legendary (which gives ap) is not p2w, but using gold to convert to gems in order to buy something in the gemstore is p2w?

No wonder the devs dont respond to the forums if these are the type of arguments people come up with.

So far gold had very limited affect on your achievement points. You definately made enough gold for all the achievements based on gold by the time you reach 20k+ AP. But explain me how I will make enough Gold to get about 2000 black lion tickets by playing the game. Only a trading post mogul might be able to do that. Anet adds a new set of black lion weapons almost every month so its almost impossible to catch up, too. It takes about 50 black lion keys per ticket on average I got told. Thats quite a lot.

GW1 achievements were entirely different and not pay to win. You had to spend about 1000 hours if you focused on getting all 500 AP without doing RMT or getting huge gifts from friends.

I agree with you, but the problem is the ticket scrap drop rate, not the gemstore. That is what people should be angry about, especially since prices of those skins on the tp will at least double after the patch.

A 600 gem weapon skin (that you can get from converting 80-100 gold to gems) is reasonable. A skin that requires 5000+ gems worth of keys to maybe get enough tickets to earn is silly.

Essence Snow.3194:

For any of those player competing for rank on the leader boards I’d sure as heck say it’s p2w.

So imo. NO They should not.

Honestly, do people actually pay attention to the leader boards for AP? I thought it was agreed a while ago they were joke.

Anyways from what I saw it looks like what, 1 AP per tier and some scraps for the black lion weapons? It’s not like it’s 50 AP like it is for a amberite set.

So eh, doesn’t bother me.

No.

The current Gemstore gives no competitive advantage for paying players over ‘free’ players, and that is exactly how it should stay.

Lest we give the players that try to complain “everything is cash sho-” and then bite their tongue an actual valid point.

Celestina.2894:

Essence Snow.3194:

For any of those player competing for rank on the leader boards I’d sure as heck say it’s p2w.

So imo. NO They should not.

Honestly, do people actually pay attention to the leader boards for AP? I thought it was agreed a while ago they were joke.

Anyways from what I saw it looks like what, 1 AP per tier and some scraps for the black lion weapons? It’s not like it’s 50 AP like it is for a amberite set.

So eh, doesn’t bother me.

I think there are people who care. People congratulate me for my leaderboard ranking all the time (without me specifically pointing them out to my rank).

The fact that keys exist in game (very rarely)…
The fact that gold—>gems exists to buy keys…
The fact that BL weapon skins are tradeable for gold…

None of the above makes it ok to make gem store items worth AP, imo.

azzy.6485:

None of the above makes it ok to make gem store items worth AP, imo.

How about the fact that…

• A full set of BL weapons gives 1 (one) AP.

?

Lishtenbird.2814:

azzy.6485:

None of the above makes it ok to make gem store items worth AP, imo.

How about the fact that…

• A full set of BL weapons gives 1 (one) AP.

?

I was wrong, it’s 3. But still…3 per complete set… I agree not a huuuuuuge deal. (Although I like that you get 7 (I think WP said 7, just watched his 2nd preview vid that he put up a little while ago) tickets back)