Guild Wars 2

Tumult.2578:

Lahmia.2193:

Tumult.2578:

I am hopeful. My first ascended weapon made, a Shortbow, when on the shelf the very next day when it was nerfed out of use for years by a balance pass. My Ranger became simply a crafter only, after it was drastically changed to a healer, which I have zero interest in.
My hope is that they separate the game modes when balancing. Anything else seems doomed to failure.

Ummm what? Condi ranger is currently the best condi in pve. And yes it uses shortbow.

Perhaps you could actually read what I posted, which said nothing about the shortbow now. This was in 2013.

Yes I read what you said. You crafted a legendary shortbow and it was nerfed the day after and you lost interest in it. But in 2017 condi ranger is now top tier dps (with axe/torch). And you don’t need to run druid with it, though the extra sustain can be nice.

psizone.8437:

Oh, and kindly swap Engie pistol 3 and 4 around so we can use both offhand pistol and shield depending on mood and need without giving up that burn dps.

Please don’t do this.

This is so needed and I do hope the team gets it right for wvw. And I hope most of all its good for all classes! No flavor of the month!

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Conditions are a viable source of damage, Orpheal. The sooner you and everyone else accept this truth, the happier you’ll be.

The problem is that condi damage is separate from power damage. Which of the two you use could be a valid part of class design. If done properly instead of randomly thrown at the game like we have it right now.

In fact, conditions as a whole are by far the weirdest of any MMO I’ve played, and I started with early EQ1. There’s nothing done well about them. Sorry to be that harsh devs.

Carighan.6758:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Conditions are a viable source of damage, Orpheal. The sooner you and everyone else accept this truth, the happier you’ll be.

The problem is that condi damage is separate from power damage. Which of the two you use could be a valid part of class design. If done properly instead of randomly thrown at the game like we have it right now.

In fact, conditions as a whole are by far the weirdest of any MMO I’ve played, and I started with early EQ1. There’s nothing done well about them. Sorry to be that harsh devs.

Conditions should be nothing but debuffs (like boons are buffs), not a source of damage by any means. Once they realize it this game will become 10000x better.

Carighan.6758:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Conditions are a viable source of damage, Orpheal. The sooner you and everyone else accept this truth, the happier you’ll be.

The problem is that condi damage is separate from power damage. Which of the two you use could be a valid part of class design. If done properly instead of randomly thrown at the game like we have it right now.

In fact, conditions as a whole are by far the weirdest of any MMO I’ve played, and I started with early EQ1. There’s nothing done well about them. Sorry to be that harsh devs.

I agree.

I’ve heard it said often that GW2 has the best combat system of any MMO. While I believe that this is probably true (because it’s not really saying much), my myriad complaints about the combat can be summarised as; The GW2 combat system is mediocre at best – it’s only redeeming feature being so good that it alone makes GW2 combat the best. That feature is Dodge.

Burtnik.5218:

Conditions should be nothing but debuffs (like boons are buffs), not a source of damage by any means. Once they realize it this game will become 10000x better.

Why?
Ever played any other game, basically? Plenty have damage-over-time effects and they work fine. Only… their devs don’t try to make them glorified DD-skills.

That is, in other games a DoT skill might cast 1 second, and last 21 seconds, dealing slow damage. However, for the time spent casting it, it deals superior damage. But given the 21 seconds fulfillment time, DPS is very low in the end.

That’s how DoTs are supposed to work. And then scale them from the same stats, so the amount of DoTs vs DDs you use is a class/trait/traitline element for balance and lore reasons.

For example, Necros could have a lot of DoTs on all their weapons, meaning they generally do higher total damage per time spent attacking, but over a lengthy amount of time. On the flipside, Warriors could be DD-only, meaning full control and full on-demand burst, but need more time spent attacking for the same overall damage.

This works perfectly fine in other games, but like I said, it requires devs to want to see DoTs as first-order damage abilities on-par with DDs, instead of wanting to artifically force this separation with different mechanics. There’s already an inherent difference in them (trade on-demand damage for better total damage), so there’s virtually no need to do anything else with them.

In other words: Just because everyone else does it some way doesn’t mean it’s inferior. Sometimes there’s a good reason everyone does it, it has proven to be the best solution. :P

Carighan.6758:

Burtnik.5218:

Conditions should be nothing but debuffs (like boons are buffs), not a source of damage by any means. Once they realize it this game will become 10000x better.

Why?
Ever played any other game, basically? Plenty have damage-over-time effects and they work fine. Only… their devs don’t try to make them glorified DD-skills.

Yeah, plenty and i dont recall any of em having so stupid mechanic like gw has. Some have “dot” effect skills but you know difference between them and gw conditions? These dot effect are treated like a normal attacks which ofc deals delayed over time damage but they arent associated with some weird kitten like condition damage, they dont ignore armor, you cant raise/lower their duration and they dont bring extra utility.

For example imagine backstab dealing all of it current damage over next 3sec rather than doing one big spike. It would still get reduced by toughness, -% traits, protections and be based on power damage not some weido condi dmg. Thats how it worked in my all my games i played (and i played games for well over 15 years). You couldnt cleanse it but they wouldnt tick for ridiculous amount of damage either and its very very rare for them to have additional effect. See the desing flaw now?

Conditions has to go in current state along with that ridiculous “condition damage” stat.

quick one, everyone loves a good nerfing. I’ve had loads! any chance anet can ease the pain? like switching the asc mystic toilet stat switch to say one ecto rather than 5? it all adds up and would show they cared. 24 hour window would be fine

Burtnik.5218:

Carighan.6758:

Burtnik.5218:

Conditions should be nothing but debuffs (like boons are buffs), not a source of damage by any means. Once they realize it this game will become 10000x better.

Why?
Ever played any other game, basically? Plenty have damage-over-time effects and they work fine. Only… their devs don’t try to make them glorified DD-skills.

Yeah, plenty and i dont recall any of em having so stupid mechanic like gw has. Some have “dot” effect skills but you know difference between them and gw conditions? These dot effect are treated like a normal attacks which ofc deals delayed over time damage but they arent associated with some weird kitten like condition damage, they dont ignore armor, you cant raise/lower their duration and they dont bring extra utility.

For example imagine backstab dealing all of it current damage over next 3sec rather than doing one big spike. It would still get reduced by toughness, -% traits, protections and be based on power damage not some weido condi dmg. Thats how it worked in my all my games i played (and i played games for well over 15 years). You couldnt cleanse it but they wouldnt tick for ridiculous amount of damage either and its very very rare for them to have additional effect. See the desing flaw now?

Conditions has to go in current state along with that ridiculous “condition damage” stat.

I’m not normally one to agree with Burt, but he did nail it here.

I don’t understand why there exist high-scaling DoT conditions. GW2 originally didn’t have a condition damage stat; the DoT on conditions originally was meant to be a minor supplement aimed for helping tanks chew through some toughness. People wanted DoT build options, so ANet went the lazy way and added them in by buffing condition damage potential.

But this wasn’t enough DPS for PvE since the coefficients needed to stay low since they ignored defenses, so they got buffed, and can be used with tank stats. And here we are.

If they just made power-based DoT skills and let those crit and so on, I don’t think there’d be much of an issue. Want to play a DoT damage build? You still can. You need to be similarly squishy or invest in some power as your power/burst counterpart if you really want to deal awesome damage. DoT flair/utility can then be merged into power-burst kits enabling more hybrid styles and more cohesive weapons and traits in general. Trait lines could get reworked to have more synergy and diversity within them without needing to cater towards split stats or weapons. The need for cleanses drops and spammable condition clear access such as light field finishers could be reduced, and this also makes supportive-disabler-type builds that pump out weakness, vuln, and poison for example much more viable for group play in PvP environments as a result.

Having condi dmg and normal dmg be two seperate things is fine, i don’t see why anyone wants it gone. Power builds can inflict conditions too, so “they’re op because they have side effects” is no valid reason. Condis are good against a toughness tanks, in which case it’s the one counter. if there was no condi dmg stat, toughness tanks would take far too long to kill- or take forever. Vitality tanks on the other hand, get to use heals which dont fully heal them, but die a lot slower to conditions so they can kill a condi user, so that’s balanced already.
There is no reason to turn condis into power-based DoT, except to buff their DPS- and consequently wreck every level 80 ascended condition dude and make toughness tanks the unquestioned gods of survival.
Also, cleanses exist, so condi damage’s strengths and weaknesses are amplified.

Elementalists now summon tornadoes on critical hit.

Toughness tanks work as intended, though; lots of mitigation with little damage or inconsistent damage.

The irony is that toughness tanks already are the unquestionable gods of survival: It’s called Dire and Trailblazer gear which have main-stat condition damage. Even zergs despite having huge cleansing are running these kits now because condition builds just apply too many conditions too quickly for even the massive cleansing to keep up.

A majority of the mitigation at this point in the game comes from % damage reduction effects which hit power builds instead of condition builds.

For example, I can run take a build with almost 4k power and 241 crit damage with another +70% in additional bonus damage on a high-scaling coefficient and hit a condi scrapper or druid for 1k, which if glass would be 6k, which if not running the defensive bonuses would be well over 20k.

They’ve already removed stats from the game before, and have given out compensatory-select-stat item replacements. They actually did this when Dire gear was added to the game because Magic Find was removed. So everyone just rerolled into their preference. I don’t see why this couldn’t happen again. Not to mention dire/tb gear only dominate WvW; they’re deemed too overpowered for sPvP options and because they don’t pump optimal damage, aren’t used in PvE. It’s just bloat that makes WvW less-balanced for little to no justified reason.

Cleanses aren’t distributed well enough across build options for how accessible conditions currently are. If so many professions couldn’t unload 15+ stacks of varying conditions every few seconds, the notion has merit. The problem is when you have so many builds inflicting several different types of conditions very quickly over and over while still demanding things like stunbreaks and other utility from the opponent, all the while being inherently tanky.

And while I think just making power-based DoTs would have been a smarter solution earlier, it’d be a huge task to undo at this point. That much I’ll give you.

I wouldn’t mind conditions as much if they required a build to be a bit less durable to deal damage (I can engage with 6-8k poison ticks + 2k confusion + weakness on a thief or 8-12k burning ticks on a guard), but Dire/TB is really excessive in terms of its raw durability.

I really hope they do something about Passives… There’s too much Passive traits and overall Passive play in a game that’s popular for it “action combat”. And perhaps a great surprise would be to see Thief’s Off-Hand Dagger made useful, yet remain flavourful.

To add to the ‘Condition Damage’ discussion going on:
The issue with Conditions is that you can build for high Condition Damage (be honest, you don’t need ‘Expertise’…) without sacrificing Defenses. Just look at sets like Dire and Trailblazer. That’s Damage, Armor, Health and possibly Duration on 1 piece of Equipment. Now if you want Power Damage, you got to have 1) Power 2) Precision 3) Ferocity. You have to make sacrifices with any or all of these 3 components if you want more to be more sustainable.
And that’s just the Equipment side of it. Fact of the matter is that Condi requires a whole lot less effort to apply than Power Damage (Toughness reduces incoming Direct Damage, but not Condi Damage), There’s also less access to other forms of mitigation to Condi than there is to Direct Damage, through Resistance and comparatively high ICD’s on Cond-Cleanses, versus a meriad of Block, Invulns (applied condi keeps ticking) and things like Endure Pain and Signet of Stone.
Not to even begin about all of the passive Direct-Damage-Reducing Effects in the game (Scrapper Runes, Mussels Gnashblade/Lemongrass Musselpasta etc.) that do nothing against Condition Damage.
That’s the problem with Condition Damage. In the PvP/WvW sense that is.

In PvE it’s kitten-easy to apply any form of damage. But for the sake of a healthy PvP/WvW combat environment, Something needs to get changed. Either the effectiveness of Condition’s Damaging component, or the application has to be made more difficult, or Toughness and Active Defenses have to be brought up to par so that both Power and Condi stand an equal chance. Prefferably a properly balanced and well-thought out combination of these.
Now, I’m not one for removing things, but Dire and Traiblazer gear are dispicable creations that should have never been allowed into the game to begin with. (Also remove Trapper Runes, or rather change the 6th Effect so we get rid of those ridiculously pointless trolls that are Perma-Stealth Thieves).

EDIT#1:
Forgot to mention ‘Expertise’ for the Condi Duration…
Well, all fun for PvE. But face it, you don’t need it in a PvP scenario because of how easy and quick it is to apply Condi in GW2.

EDIT#2:
Quick edit to improve readability and some grammar.

In regards to conditions, I would like to see some “soft cleanses” added to the game. This would be a skill, either baseline or traited, that when you use it, in addition to its current effect, it would also reduce the duration of X condis on you by 1-3 seconds. Some of the more powerful ones could affect every condi on you, while most would affect just a few. This way it would be similar to protection for condis, because by knocking off 1-3 seconds you would be reducing the duration of the condis, and hence their total damage to you, considerably.

Its something that I think the game is sorely lacking from a flavor standpoint. Combine these soft cleanses, which would necessitate the need for expertise to get the most out of a condi build, with the removal of Trailblazers and you would pretty much stop the problem of overly tanky condi builds. They could still run dire, but the soft cleanses should, if implemented well, be enough to lower their threat just enough so that you can burn through their tankiness. Or they could run viper to be a glass cannon condi build.

Adding on to the on going condition conversation(btw I agree with what most people have said). There are two ways we can treat condition damage right now, 1) Direct damage just like power damage or 2) DoT: Damage over time.

If condition damage is treaten as direct damage then first thing that needs to be done is getting rid of stats like dire and trailblazer. Secondly when you look at power damage its not just the power stat that does all the damage you also have to take in account precision and ferocity. If you want more damage out of your power builds you go more glassy and give up on sustain/tanky stats like toughness and vitality. If condition damage is going to deal direct damage then there needs to be two new stats that should be introduced or precision and ferocity should affect condition damage. Third when you have these damage reduction buffs they should also reduce condition damage alongside with cleanses and everything.

If condition damage is to become DoT: Damage over time then it shouldnt be primary damage, your primary damage should come out of power builds and condition you apply on your enemy should be the small secondary damage that ticks over time which would still make dire and trailblazer stats useless.

I hear a lot of people say epidemic needs to be controlled and needs a nerf. Yes you are right epidemic does need a big nerf but conditions will still be able to spam pretty often. It’s not difficult to spam condition when it comes to large scale fights in WvW hence making the smaller groups or used to be known as zerg busting guilds useless against these blobs. So in my opinion condition damage and how it works with stats and everything needs to be taken care of properly not just by nerfing one skill.

Right now if you go into WvW you group comp better have 2 guard an ele a rev spamming resistance and 5 class could anything but what I am getting at is even with revenants spamming resistance with eles cleansing / have both guards to run purging flames on top of resolve and if thats not enough run contemplation of purity is just really bs honestly. As a guardian player I shouldnt have to waste two third of my skills on condi cleanses. The way conditions are currently its making WvW pale like really pale.

With this current patch I am expecting epi to get nerf but at the same time seeing rev centaur stance or whatever you call it getting aoe alacrity with healbot eles / druids I am definitely expecting a complete healing meta coming to WvW and keeping WvW pale af. GG team.

Another thing I would like to mention is the range on revenant hammer. Ever since revenant was introduced because that hammer range and the amount of damage it does is crazy hence making zerker/Valk ele or even with marauders falling out of the meta. I was testing this out with my guild mate they were on their ele with zerk/Valk mix getting up to 16k health and I was on my revenant and I was running marauders with durability, my point is that last hit on CoR literally one hit my guild mate on their dps ele. So please revenant hammer also need a range nerf.

From what i have observed on BlackGate server, this is not what upset the ferocious franky in charge when facing epidemic encounters. All it does is make franky come back with a serious hard on for the commander of the opposite world.

The complains i hear about the most are the inability to adapt by re-rolling without fatally ending in a queue (which is absolutely out of of the question for the head of a snake), or to control who plays what and is who is connected to Teamspeak.

For exemple, guild groups like Knm / Knt who can re-spec on border lands in minutes, can destroy larger groups (be it epidemics/pirate ships).

But pugs groups will usually suffer the most from a specialized coordinated opposition that recquire to adjust your tactics.

CrimeMaker.8612:

Secondly when you look at power damage its not just the power stat that does all the damage you also have to take in account precision and ferocity. If you want more damage out of your power builds you go more glassy and give up on sustain/tanky stats like toughness and vitality. If condition damage is going to deal direct damage then there needs to be two new stats that should be introduced or precision and ferocity should affect condition damage.

There are already additional stats needed to maximize damage output. Seriously, condi damage alone is relatively weak – to get the output comparable with berserkers, you really need Vipers. And even then berserkers are usually better. Just going pure condition damage, without expertise (to maximize the usefulness of each individual condition application) and precision (to use on-crit traits and sigils) is a massive dps loss.
You may not see it like that in pvp for one single reason – players are much better at using cleanses, and so the use of expertise is mostly negated (no condi is going to last its full duration anyway). And you don’t see much pure zerkers in pvp either, so you can’t really compare how big the dps disparity is.

CrimeMaker.8612:

Third when you have these damage reduction buffs they should also reduce condition damage alongside with cleanses and everything.

Only after cleanses will start working as a direct power damage negation (somehow) as well.

By the way – it’s equally easy to build against condi, as it is to build against direct damage. I’d like for you to guess why players, having that choice, generally tend to use the second option in WvW.
(Hint: it’s not because they perceive condi to be more dangerous of the two threats)

I don’t have an issue with conditions doing damage. I have issue with how they are implemented in this game. They seem fine in PVE. In 1v1 they seem fine for the most part and overturned in others. In Group PVP and WvW they are totally broken.

OriOri.8724:

In regards to conditions, I would like to see some “soft cleanses” added to the game. This would be a skill, either baseline or traited, that when you use it, in addition to its current effect, it would also reduce the duration of X condis on you by 1-3 seconds. Some of the more powerful ones could affect every condi on you, while most would affect just a few. This way it would be similar to protection for condis, because by knocking off 1-3 seconds you would be reducing the duration of the condis, and hence their total damage to you, considerably.

Its something that I think the game is sorely lacking from a flavor standpoint. Combine these soft cleanses, which would necessitate the need for expertise to get the most out of a condi build, with the removal of Trailblazers and you would pretty much stop the problem of overly tanky condi builds. They could still run dire, but the soft cleanses should, if implemented well, be enough to lower their threat just enough so that you can burn through their tankiness. Or they could run viper to be a glass cannon condi build.

More ‘themed’ cleanses on short-ish cooldowns could also be useful.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stop,_Drop,_and_Roll
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Withdraw

Though, honestly, what we need is some short period of immunity post-cleanse, especially for disables. It would go a long way to blunting the constant application of conditions, and it would help manage ANet’s irritating CC fetish in these story fights.

Perhaps another approach in that is to remove conditions from auto attacks. Or at least have combo chains that don’t apply them until the end, so not every attack has a condition attached to it.

Have they had a skill balance patch before with no preview. I can’t remember one. Wonder if they are expecting some excessive drama afterwards to be providing devs after the patch hits. Nice of them to do so, they don’t have to. Lots of anticipation.

@Rauderi – I fully agree that condis need to be removed from auto attack chains. And boons for that matter. The only exception are pure condi weapons that deal absolutely minimal direct damage, and the only point of their auto attacks are to keep condition stacks up. We could get more themed cleanses, personally I’m not the biggest fan of them though, really not sure why I don’t like them.

As for immunity to condis post-cleanse. That’s an interesting idea I’ve seen thrown around before. I worry about how practical it is though, it could necessitate a huge rebalance of every class. If you make it too long, then a single good support player could make your entire group almost immune to condis just by being smart with their cleanses. If you make it too short it will be useless in zerg fights (though maybe that could be a good thing depending on who you ask). Even in 1v1 fights though, if you make it too long you completely shut down condi builds that rely on 1 or 2 condis (burn guard) without even needing resistance. Control effects are a little easier to balance imo. A short immunity to stuns if you break 1 would be an interesting thing to see. Even if it is jut .5 seconds, it would at least keep you from being chain-stunned, unable to react after you break the first one.

OriOri.8724:

@Rauderi – I fully agree that condis need to be removed from auto attack chains. And boons for that matter. The only exception are pure condi weapons that deal absolutely minimal direct damage, and the only point of their auto attacks are to keep condition stacks up. We could get more themed cleanses, personally I’m not the biggest fan of them though, really not sure why I don’t like them.

snip. Even if it is jut .5 seconds, it would at least keep you from being chain-stunned, unable to react after you break the first one.

That would be my main point of bringing it up. :P
If something else doesn’t change with condi-spam, then we might need a universal not-a-boon that blocks specific conditions for (.5-1 second?, 3 seconds?) after they’ve been cleansed. Possibly even if it’s only yourself who cleanses it, so the water-ele can’t just make the party immune to conditions. It gives cleanses more power, which might finally justify some of their cooldown times.

As far as condi autos, I mainly have Necro/Mesmer Scepter in mind. They exert quite a bit of pressure with each swing, but that contributes to the condi-spam that many players find unsustainable to fight against. Mesmer-sword vulnerability stacks aren’t so bad, but it contributes to the same principle. So it’s stuff like that which could be changed. Front-load the opening hits with better power damage, the final wind-up has the big condi burst, and it makes dealing with conditions a bit more strategic for the defense.

I got distracted detailing other points, though I did also like the idea of a condition duration shortener, something to be mixed into other cleanse/healing skills that blunts some of the overall condi threat without removing it completely.

The notion that Condi is new or not intended as a main mechanic is patently false. The GW 1 Warrior learns to create “deep wounds” in there first minutes in the game.

Hexes are nothing if not conditions.

A number of classes and builds trade on conditions and would be out of the game if we returned to the old system of stack caps. It is wise to carry and use condi clear even though, yes, it will reduce your dps a bit.

Rauderi.8706:

If something else doesn’t change with condi-spam,

Condi-spam is no stronger than power cleave spam. The difference however is that Power attacks are unique per class while condi types are not. So when a player dies to a power build they attribute it to that specific power build, but when they die to condis they make gross generalizations rather than paying attention to what specific abilities killed them.

As far as condi autos, I mainly have Necro/Mesmer Scepter in mind.

I’m sure that 1 bleed stack per auto is so scary. The pressure is marginal. But hey my warrior can do 3k GS autos.

I did also like the idea of a condition duration shortener,

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Resistance
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Sunless
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Hoelbrak
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Antitoxin
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Melandru
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup (for WvW)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loaf_of_Saffron_Bread (for WvW)
There are also class specific traits that affect the durations of specific condis.

More class nerfs, just make use all hit like pandas with a stick …. zzz

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Regen-Boon-Intensity-PLZ/first#post6501754

This plus these 8 reworked Conditions and the game would be sooo much more balanced than now and that without going deeper into details even with other needed changes on the Combat System

Cripple Reduces chance of dealing Critical Hits for 2,5% per Stack and receive Damage over time while moving. Higher Stacks increase the intensity of the Damage over time. Max 10 Stacks

Poison Reduces per Stack Power and Healing Intensity of the Target by 2,5%. Max 10 Stacks

Burning Deals amor ignoring constant same damage over time and increases per Stack the Damage a target receives from direct attacks or other damage dealing condition by +2%. Max 10 Stacks. Each Stack rises also additionally the chance of the Burning spreading over to adjacent not burning targets by +5% if the targets stand too close together longer than 2 seconds.

Chill Reduces Endurance Regeneration and Skill Cooldown Speed by 2,5% per Stack. Max 10 Stacks

Slow Decreases Attack Speed of the AA by 50% and reduces Movement Speed of the target per Stack by 3,3% per Stack. Max 10 Stacks

Bleeding Deals Damage with increased intensity per stack on Skill Activation and reduces per Stack the Durations of Boons on you by 2%. Max 10 Stacks

Blindness Decreases the Chance to hit targets by 66% and reduces by 2,5% per Stack the intensity of CC Effects on your Break Bar, should the CC attack actually hit somebody

Confusion Deactivates Friendly Fire, so that skills deal also partially damage to your nearby allies now, what makes spamming AoEs a riskier thing for your side (15%). Further Stacks increase the intensity of the friendly fire damage of allies by +1% per Stack to max 25% and you more vulnerable to CC SKills that affect your Break Bar by 20%. Max 10 Stacks

Immobilized = Removed from the game or reworked into class specific traits
Fear = Reworked into a Necromancer specific Trait
Taunt = Reworked into Class specific Traits or a Sigil/Rune Effect

Et voila, 14 conditions reduced down to 8 with the help of Dual Effects, that help making Conditions in themself more important and impactful, while the total overenriched amoutn of them gets reduced to a much more overviewable and better balanceable number that is 8 instead of 14!!

The reduction from 25 down to 10 Stacks makes boons as like conditions also easier to balance as you can go in 10% effectiveness steps basically, instead of splitting up the efficiency of a boon/condition into 25 efficiency parts.

Conditions and Boons need to become less spammy, getting longer durations, easier access to removals, but removals get now more specified to remove only conditions for that they are designed for, not anymore general condition removals, that basically remove everything, whatever you have. This will further increase the importance and impactfulness of them.

Only exception where Conditions will have no Stack Limit, will be PvE where the damaging conditions need to have no limit, so that everyone can contribute with their conditions to the DPS of the player crowds in big events, like we have it now since the last condition patch 2015.

Hows it hanging Ese (Essay), It says here by the stats (people crying on the forums) that your skritt is all snarzed up. What is going to happen is that we are going to take a lot from over here and give a tiny bit here and a tiny bit there and inject you with a bit of fluff here. Don’t worry kitten, my sister was a quaggan and there are plenty of excelsior builds out there (more ""Balancing""). So awww, that will be this many dollars and what I need you all to do is put your magnetic strip there.

Point is, if the influx of players seem to be switching over to various classes, expect them to evaluate why and attempt a remedy. If less people play the beloved “Thief”, expect them to not see change, but rather perhaps minor buffage. The FOTM (Flavor of the Month) is just that for a reason and this is why everyone often states LTP – Learn to Play.
The fact is, I prefer the original moto from the Arenanet team where it was stated that they will not seek balance, but do their best to provide a well rounded gaming experience.

Back to enjoying life and playing the game.

Crinn.7864:

Rauderi.8706:

If something else doesn’t change with condi-spam,

Condi-spam is no stronger than power cleave spam. The difference however is that Power attacks are unique per class while condi types are not. So when a player dies to a power build they attribute it to that specific power build, but when they die to condis they make gross generalizations rather than paying attention to what specific abilities killed them.

As far as condi autos, I mainly have Necro/Mesmer Scepter in mind.

I’m sure that 1 bleed stack per auto is so scary. The pressure is marginal. But hey my warrior can do 3k GS autos.

I did also like the idea of a condition duration shortener,

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Resistance
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Sunless
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Hoelbrak
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Antitoxin
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Melandru
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bowl_of_Lemongrass_Poultry_Soup (for WvW)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Loaf_of_Saffron_Bread (for WvW)
There are also class specific traits that affect the durations of specific condis.

Condis on autos annoy me, not because they have a lot of pressure, but because they are too easy to apply. You literally don’t have to press any buttons and they will be continuously applied as cover condis. That’s why I’m in favor of removing them from every weapon that isn’t supposed to be a pure condi weapon. Its braindead play to have condis on auto attacks, especially when its something like vuln and its quite obvious that its only useful as a cover condi.

And for the soft cleanses, I want to see them be skills, not just traits or runes that are a blanket effect of -X% duration. Something like Ele uses cleansing wave and instead of removing a condition it lowers the duration of 4 condis on them by 2 seconds. It shouldn’t be a passive thing, it should be something you actually have to use a skill for.

Burtnik.5218:

Carighan.6758:

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Conditions are a viable source of damage, Orpheal. The sooner you and everyone else accept this truth, the happier you’ll be.

The problem is that condi damage is separate from power damage. Which of the two you use could be a valid part of class design. If done properly instead of randomly thrown at the game like we have it right now.

In fact, conditions as a whole are by far the weirdest of any MMO I’ve played, and I started with early EQ1. There’s nothing done well about them. Sorry to be that harsh devs.

Conditions should be nothing but debuffs (like boons are buffs), not a source of damage by any means. Once they realize it this game will become 10000x better.

Problem being they’d become useless like weakness, chill, and blind are on anything that has a breakbar (since the bar is only available for tiny amounts of time and hard CC has far greater contributions to its breakage than mere debuffs).

Conditions are already massively weaker than boons are. Protection is far better than weakness, since it’s a conhsistent, non-RNG benefit that affects all incoming damage instead of only a single mob’s outgoing damage (and doesn’t even work on bosses).

25 stacks of might are a greater benefit than 25 stacks of vulnerability to boot, and then you have fury as well which conditions don’t have an equivalent for.

Damaging conditions are the only truly valuable conditions in this game when it comes to PvE.

What makes you say conditions are weak? 25 stacks of might also effects condition damage. The way conditions work currently are perfectly fine for PvE but when it comes to WvW they are terrible.

The biggest problem with condition damage builds is that there is only one stat that affects how much damage you do rest of your stats could go into tanky stats like like toughness and vitality hence making them braindead spammable easy to play.

If condition damage is suppose to stay the same and do the same amount of damage like they do now then there needs to be introduced two new glassy stats or precision ferocity will need to be also taken in account while gearing up condition based builds. That’s one thing I love power builds if you want more damage out of your build you have to give up on toughness and vitality and condition damage based builds should be treated the same away.

Dire and Trailblazers needs to go hence why these stats are banned in sPvP because ridiculously op.

Another thing is that conditions currently do DoT: Damage over time and they also do direct/burst damage which makes them even more op compared to power builds.

Conditions need to either do direct damage / burst damage meaning bigger damage less spamming none to minimum condition duration or condition damage needs to do DoT: Damage over time meaning low damage, 50% spammable compared to the way you can spam conditions currently and 50% condition duration and stacking compared to the way you can stack and increase condi duration currently. Also in both of these cases conditions should do more damage if you are more glassy and remove dire/trailblazer ty.

Edit: If might can also give you extra condition stat then weakness should also effect conditon damage.

2000 power dmg, up front dmg mitigated with armor etc.
400 power dmg and 1600 over time, the former is mitigated, the latter can be removed with condy removal at any time.

Whats the problem?

Healing Power should affect the number of condi stacks that are cleansed.

Ardid.7203:

Healing Power should affect the number of condi stacks that are cleansed.

healing power is for healing, condy removal is for conditions. You can also already get condy removal with healing in some skill trees.

vesica tempestas.1563:

2000 power dmg, up front dmg mitigated with armor etc.
400 power dmg and 1600 over time, the former is mitigated, the latter can be removed with condy removal at any time.

Whats the problem?

That whole paragraph or whatever that is doesn’t make sense.

OriOri.8724:

Condis on autos annoy me, not because they have a lot of pressure, but because they are too easy to apply. You literally don’t have to press any buttons and they will be continuously applied as cover condis

Whether a auto has condis or not does not affect how easy it is to hit a target with said auto. Condis are just a method of delivering a effect. They are no easier than applying a power effect.

Dear devs,

It is still time!!
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Suggestion-Swap-pistol-3-and-pistol-4

please hear this plea of the few engineers left…
help us make shield viable. Reduce its CD and swap pistol #3 and #4.
So we can have an OH hard CC/defense, and an OH soft CC/condi.

Purity of purpose!!

It’s still time!

vesica tempestas.1563:

Ardid.7203:

Healing Power should affect the number of condi stacks that are cleansed.

healing power is for healing, condy removal is for conditions. You can also already get condy removal with healing in some skill trees.

There isn’t an attribute that controls that Condi Removal. It is present on skills and traits, always with fixed numbers. IMO that number should be tied to Healing Power, making this attribute more relevant and the approuch to condi removal more involved with the rest of the game mechanic, less arbitrary.

It could even simplify the removal game design, dividing it into categories (strong, medium, weak), and applying HP as a multiplier.

Do you want to be good removing condis? you need to have decent Healing Power.
Alternatively, they could directly add “Condi Removal” as a new attribute. I think if would make way more sense than most of the actual ones.

IMO this options could make more armor stats interesting to have, counteract the Zerker/Viper overabundance, create a new way to regulate the tank meta, and over all, open new builds for every profession.

Easy steps to make WvW great again!
-Nerf conditions
-nerf damage reduction
-nerf healbot eles
-nerf revenant hammer and the amount of dps that CoR or the auto does (literally does more damage than necromancer lich and lich is suppose to do high dps lul)
-Bring back classic Stability
-Nerf these passive CC
-Return of the worker warriors = return of the hammer train = #WvWGreatAgain
-Fix Ascalonian tonic that kitten wasn’t even broken anet tried to fix something that wasn’t broken lol.

Anet we WvW players we like our game mode simple we and don’t want to deal with all the PvE stuff you guys implement and especially conditions.

Use the KISS formula: Keep it simple stupid

CrimeMaker.8612:

-nerf revenant hammer and the amount of dps that CoR or the auto does (literally does more damage than necromancer lich and lich is suppose to do high dps lul)

Yep, go ahead, nerf already underdog weapon. Bring in all the nerfs to nerfnant, by now the worst profession in game out of meta in all games modes (apart from being a gathering bot and open pve zerker). Im in! Kill it with fire before it lays eggs!!!

Ps. everyone hated hammer train.

CrimeMaker.8612:

Easy steps to make WvW great again!

You lost me right there. That phrase turned off my attention instantly.

Burtnik.5218:

CrimeMaker.8612:

-nerf revenant hammer and the amount of dps that CoR or the auto does (literally does more damage than necromancer lich and lich is suppose to do high dps lul)

Yep, go ahead, nerf already underdog weapon. Bring in all the nerfs to nerfnant, by now the worst profession in game out of meta in all games modes (apart from being a gathering bot and open pve zerker). Im in! Kill it with fire before it lays eggs!!!

Ps. everyone hated hammer train.

I am not talking about PvE fam I am talking about WvW because revenant hammer doing so much damage you can literally one shot berserker eles in WvW. The fact you just said that everyone hated hammer train proves my point that you went into WvW one day got destroyed by group of skilled guild only running 15 you thought you was gonna win cuz you guys had a bigger blob lol. Funny you ever dared to say everyone hated hammer train.

Nerf to stab created pirate ship meta which made 25% of WvW population to drop because nobody liked the stab changes.

Revenant hammer is op, That CoR can hit for 18k easily which is more than enough to one shot a zerker ele hence why they are out of the meta in WvW.

Btw PvErs there is another game mode called WvW and balance in WvW should matter more than it matters in PvE.

Revenants are not out of meta in WvW there isn’t any group comp in WvW that doesn’t require a revenant. Every group comp requires a revenant its a class that can tank yet do a lot of dps because that hammer is just too strong and be supportive at the same time because RESISTANCE SPAM!!! It’s a broken class when it comes to WvW.

The nerfs revenants got in PvP made them more balanced not out of the meta. Revenants are still very much in meta if you are struggling to do anything with revenant after the nerfs because they are not as kittenedly op as they used to be in PvP then you are just a bad player not that revenants are out of the meta.

When it’s comes to PvE revenants are only out of the meta because of the nerf to that boon duration facet which is called facet of nature I believe? It was toned down from 50% boon duration increase to 33%(which is still good) but that was apparently pretty big nerf for PvE comps and making revenants fall out of the meta in PvE. Btw that boon duration nerf was definitely needed for WvW and it’s not our fault that Arena Net nerfed it across all game modes along side with mesmer signet of inspiration. So please stop blaming us WvWers for that nerf.

We WvWers have been affected by PvE and PvP balance so many times hence why WvW is dead or close to dead. First: stability nerf (most guilds left the game at this point and this nerf was only needed in PvE and PvP not in WvW. Many people asked for this to be reverted but Anet said no because “screw you WvW”) Second: Condition damage buff which was meant for PvE (more players left). Revenants being introduced and that hammer doing so much damage forcing eles to run full healbot (players who didn’t like full healbot ele quit). Ice bow getting nerfed because of PvE (was not needed in WvW). Lich getting nerfed in PvE (was also not needed in WvW).

List goes on.

and @Ithilwen.1529 sorry not sorry.

Well, with the update imminent and me off to bed, I can only hope for one thing: the devs/producers/sysadmin et al listen to the player base. Oh yes, I want.

Too many times in too many MMO’s this failed to happen and it caused much unhappiness. Players leave. All we see are rolling tumbleweeds. I hope that doesn’t happen here.

Please watch that video and spread it! Thank you

CrimeMaker.8612:

Burtnik.5218:

CrimeMaker.8612:

-nerf revenant hammer and the amount of dps that CoR or the auto does (literally does more damage than necromancer lich and lich is suppose to do high dps lul)

Yep, go ahead, nerf already underdog weapon. Bring in all the nerfs to nerfnant, by now the worst profession in game out of meta in all games modes (apart from being a gathering bot and open pve zerker). Im in! Kill it with fire before it lays eggs!!!

Ps. everyone hated hammer train.

I am not talking about PvE fam I am talking about WvW because revenant hammer doing so much damage you can literally one shot berserker eles in WvW. The fact you just said that everyone hated hammer train proves my point that you went into WvW one day got destroyed by group of skilled guild only running 15 you thought you was gonna win cuz you guys had a bigger blob lol. Funny you ever dared to say everyone hated hammer train.

Nerf to stab created pirate ship meta which made 25% of WvW population to drop because nobody liked the stab changes.

Revenant hammer is op, That CoR can hit for 18k easily which is more than enough to one shot a zerker ele hence why they are out of the meta in WvW.

Btw PvErs there is another game mode called WvW and balance in WvW should matter more than it matters in PvE.

Funny how you even speak about pve to me when i am pvp focused player and in my eyes wvw is nothing else but a pve zerg with just one difference – in pve you fight mobs, in wvw you fight (in theory) players. Noneless both are focusing on zerking, who has bigger zerk aka bigger kitten wins. Much strategy, much wow. I never played in wvw zerking around (till HOT) and all i was doing was solo roaming.

So i do not hate hammer train cus i never experienced it, never played against it but i remember 349428428 posts daily on wvw section about it being a “horrible meta” so if you enjoyed it you are in minority here. You also not realizing how slow hammer is, how many bugs it has and that theres literally nothing else on it apart from spamming CoR by full glass rev which you can one shot back.

And ele is pushed out of meta by them? Like what? Lets compare the amount of revs to ele in this picture. Yeah, i totally see how eles are pushed out by revs kappa. I can hop in anytime in wvw and i will never encounter more than 5 revs in zergs. Its dead, overnerfed in every possible way class and you ask for even more nerfs to it.

I guess some people will never be pleased cus rev doesnt run around with wooden stick healing his enemies and 1 hp pool to let them kill him just by looking at him.

Ithilwen.1529:

The notion that Condi is new or not intended as a main mechanic is patently false. The GW 1 Warrior learns to create “deep wounds” in there first minutes in the game.

Hexes are nothing if not conditions.

A number of classes and builds trade on conditions and would be out of the game if we returned to the old system of stack caps. It is wise to carry and use condi clear even though, yes, it will reduce your dps a bit.

When it came to GW2, the core game’s weapon skills before launch were designed to not have condition damage be an achievable stat in-game outside from Might.

What happened in GW1 doesn’t matter. This is a new, different game.

That’s just fact; you can go research GW2’s development (2011-2012) and you’ll realize that most of the skills and traits still in the game were not originally designed around the stat existing on equipment.

You guys are focusing too much on what condition should or should not be and not on the main issues here.

Condi is a part of the game. Probably to deal with tanks.
It has problems, yes, but so does power. We only have up to 4 stats on a gear.
Do you really think that the problem is that condi only needs one stat to do damage (two, actually, but some people don’t agree with the power of expertise) or is it that of all the 4 stats you can have you HAVE TO use 3 of them for damage?

That kills build diversity and makes many other interesting and cool stats that could shake up the metagame useless because you’d have to give up half of your damage to add something like that to your build.

I’d much rather say that having to build BOTH precision and ferocity is more stupid than condition damage being a thing.

Anyway, this game will be busted until they release the Sigil/rune rework they have been doing under the hoods because right now we mostly care for more stats and some bursty/interesting passive effect procing randomly.

EITHER WAY

Please rework the whole engineer class. Change everything up, make we use different stuff and when we say we don’t want to use kits it means we want to use the weapons and skills we have but are useless. We’re not telling you to make an elite that uses absolutely nothing from our core class.

Burtnik.5218:

CrimeMaker.8612:

Burtnik.5218:

CrimeMaker.8612:

-nerf revenant hammer and the amount of dps that CoR or the auto does (literally does more damage than necromancer lich and lich is suppose to do high dps lul)

Yep, go ahead, nerf already underdog weapon. Bring in all the nerfs to nerfnant, by now the worst profession in game out of meta in all games modes (apart from being a gathering bot and open pve zerker). Im in! Kill it with fire before it lays eggs!!!

Ps. everyone hated hammer train.

I am not talking about PvE fam I am talking about WvW because revenant hammer doing so much damage you can literally one shot berserker eles in WvW. The fact you just said that everyone hated hammer train proves my point that you went into WvW one day got destroyed by group of skilled guild only running 15 you thought you was gonna win cuz you guys had a bigger blob lol. Funny you ever dared to say everyone hated hammer train.

Nerf to stab created pirate ship meta which made 25% of WvW population to drop because nobody liked the stab changes.

Revenant hammer is op, That CoR can hit for 18k easily which is more than enough to one shot a zerker ele hence why they are out of the meta in WvW.

Btw PvErs there is another game mode called WvW and balance in WvW should matter more than it matters in PvE.

Funny how you even speak about pve to me when i am pvp focused player and in my eyes wvw is nothing else but a pve zerg with just one difference – in pve you fight mobs, in wvw you fight (in theory) players. Noneless both are focusing on zerking, who has bigger zerk aka bigger kitten wins. Much strategy, much wow. I never played in wvw zerking around (till HOT) and all i was doing was solo roaming.

So i do not hate hammer train cus i never experienced it, never played against it but i remember 349428428 posts daily on wvw section about it being a “horrible meta” so if you enjoyed it you are in minority here. You also not realizing how slow hammer is, how many bugs it has and that theres literally nothing else on it apart from spamming CoR by full glass rev which you can one shot back.

And ele is pushed out of meta by them? Like what? Lets compare the amount of revs to ele in this picture. Yeah, i totally see how eles are pushed out by revs kappa. I can hop in anytime in wvw and i will never encounter more than 5 revs in zergs. Its dead, overnerfed in every possible way class and you ask for even more nerfs to it.

I guess some people will never be pleased cus rev doesnt run around with wooden stick healing his enemies and 1 hp pool to let them kill him just by looking at him.

I am a minority because half of WvW OG guilds and players quit game. / game mode because Anet killed hammer train meta. People are posting daily about the condition meta being horrible or the boon duration meta that existed before this. There were problems with hammer trains but it was far more balanced than current metas that are happened in WvW right now. You can’t speak of what sucks and what doesn’t by looking at forums. Forums is only 2% of the game.

Hammer 3 can do 5k to 8k with ease.. hammer 5 is 5k with ease hammer 4 is in built blocks projectiles and its a leech field. Hammer 1 easily hits 3k+ and CoR lol its easy 8k+ easy. Hammer isn’t that slow the only slow skills are hammer 5 and 3 but hey hammer 5 is an cc and the link of warding also the ring of warding are slow and they don’t do damage so your point? and they don’t have 1200 range lol… Guy go home, revenant hammers are broken.

Also you can’t really tell what WvW group comp runs by following a pug blob. Join a guild and each one of them runs at least 3+ revenants. Youtube current GvGs and if you don’t see 3+ revs lmk.