Guild Wars 2

Isn’t it time to revert the recipe back to 2 silk scraps for a bolt and 50 bolts of silk for Damask? After those years and cursed shore farming being nerfed there isn’t a massive flood of silk anymore.

That or add a new type of gathering node where you get plant fibres and refine it into cloth bolts? Hell, could even add it to existing plants where we would get plant fibres to make other kinds of cloth?

One or the other at least. Unless of course they know based on info they have that even reducing it from 300 scraps to 200 scraps wouldn’t be enough to keep new supply in check.

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

Silk price has been quite stable since ascended armor got introduced, so i dont know why they should cut its demand by 33%, 50% or 66%. It would bring it back to vendor value in no time and even add additional demand on all the other tier cloth, which would go up in price.

If Anet things that silk is getting too expensive, and I dont think they do, they will do the same as last year around this time. Adjust the faucets a bit, with new LS reward mechanics and Seasonal Festivals, instead of cutting demand by a ridiculously high amount.

Leave silk where it’s at.

Change the number of damask you need to make light and medium armor to be more in line with heavy armor, then substitute in elonian leather for whatever damask was taken away from the crafting requirement of light and medium armor.

Price problem solved for ascended armor and then it increases demand for leather, which T5 leather is still at the lowest possible price it can be (not vendor price since Anet doesn’t let it be sold on the TP for vendor price because people would get less than vendor price in profit with taxes).

There. Done. No need to discuss anything else because prices would be similar between all weights of armor.

(and the more weapons for certain professions argument, just start giving more weapon choices to the professions that have less, then everyone is happy….plus, who uses all weapons a profession has to offer anyway, everyone has their favorites and usually sticks with them)

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

Leave silk where it’s at.

Change the number of damask you need to make light and medium armor to be more in line with heavy armor, then substitute in elonian leather for whatever damask was taken away from the crafting requirement of light and medium armor.

Price problem solved for ascended armor and then it increases demand for leather, which T5 leather is still at the lowest possible price it can be (not vendor price since Anet doesn’t let it be sold on the TP for vendor price because people would get less than vendor price in profit with taxes).

There. Done. No need to discuss anything else because prices would be similar between all weights of armor.

(and the more weapons for certain professions argument, just start giving more weapon choices to the professions that have less, then everyone is happy….plus, who uses all weapons a profession has to offer anyway, everyone has their favorites and usually sticks with them)

That would probably also bring the overall crafting cost of ascended armor down a notch. Considering its supposed to be a long term goal, I am not sure, if that is intended by Anet.

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

I’ve always presumed that this was more of a conceptual issue rather than an economic one: many people think that parallel items should have parallel supply/demand curves (and therefore similar prices). Also, a great number of MMO veterans are used to acquiring mats on their own; they don’t agree that it’s preferable to be able do whatever content they like and buy the mats with their coin, rather than be locked into foraging on their own.

In other words, it’s not that people don’t realize that a stable, high-priced silk market can be part of a healthy economy; it’s just that they don’t like it that way.

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

Silk price has been quite stable since ascended armor got introduced, so i dont know why they should cut its demand by 33%, 50% or 66%. It would bring it back to vendor value in no time and even add additional demand on all the other tier cloth, which would go up in price.

In the past month alone, the price of silk has increased 50% from approximately 2s to 3s, and it will keep on rising until some months after the expansion releases.

Source

I like Guardian of Tyria’s solution, adjusting the Light Armor recipes to maintain some value for silk, while bringing the cost of Light Armor more into line with Medium/Heavy Armor, as well as raising the value of Leather.

No one wants to see silk go back to being worthless (hello, Thick Leather Section,) but I haven’t heard a good argument for Light Armor costing substantially more gold than Medium/Heavy Armor, besides “it keeps silk valuable.”

Wanze.8410:

That would probably also bring the overall crafting cost of ascended armor down a notch. Considering its supposed to be a long term goal, I am not sure, if that is intended by Anet.

It may bring the overall price down some, more so immediately after the change, but it would stabilize at a more normalized price between all of them instead of the 3/1/2 pricing that is light/medium/heavy armor now.

medium and light armors are exact opposites with 18 damask and 6 elonian for light and 6 damask and 18 elonian for medium.

Make it 12 and 12 for each, then the current price for both would be around 246g instead of the 327g for light and 165g for medium. Oh, and right now heavy is 199g and only requires 23 total ascended mats (7 damask and 16 deldrimor), so add another damask onto heavy and then they would be around the same prices, or just leave it off since heavies tend to have more weapons to use than light and medium professions.

I would imagine if the change were made that light and medium would settle somewhere around the 200g area for price and heavy would be around 180g, once the price of damask and elonian leather stabilize. But this is just a wild guess on price on my part.

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

Wanze.8410:

That would probably also bring the overall crafting cost of ascended armor down a notch. Considering its supposed to be a long term goal, I am not sure, if that is intended by Anet.

It may bring the overall price down some, more so immediately after the change, but it would stabilize at a more normalized price between all of them instead of the 3/1/2 pricing that is light/medium/heavy armor now.

medium and light armors are exact opposites with 18 damask and 6 elonian for light and 6 damask and 18 elonian for medium.

Make it 12 and 12 for each, then the current price for both would be around 246g instead of the 327g for light and 165g for medium. Oh, and right now heavy is 199g and only requires 23 total ascended mats (7 damask and 16 deldrimor), so add another damask onto heavy and then they would be around the same prices, or just leave it off since heavies tend to have more weapons to use than light and medium professions.

I would imagine if the change were made that light and medium would settle somewhere around the 200g area for price and heavy would be around 180g, once the price of damask and elonian leather stabilize. But this is just a wild guess on price on my part.

I already corrected your numbers on the other thread.

If you are making up imbalanced prices, they will be imbalanced. Not because there is something wrong with silk but because you made them up that way.

Zalladi.4652:

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

Silk price has been quite stable since ascended armor got introduced, so i dont know why they should cut its demand by 33%, 50% or 66%. It would bring it back to vendor value in no time and even add additional demand on all the other tier cloth, which would go up in price.

In the past month alone, the price of silk has increased 50% from approximately 2s to 3s, and it will keep on rising until some months after the expansion releases.

Source

In the past month, the price for 1 bolt of damask went up from 15g to 17g, a whooping 13% price increase.

Last year, damask went down from 17g to 13g starting halloween, through LS season 2 and wintersday because they added alot of new faucets for cloth in general during those events.

Guess what time of the year it is?

Wanze.8410:

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

Wanze.8410:

That would probably also bring the overall crafting cost of ascended armor down a notch. Considering its supposed to be a long term goal, I am not sure, if that is intended by Anet.

It may bring the overall price down some, more so immediately after the change, but it would stabilize at a more normalized price between all of them instead of the 3/1/2 pricing that is light/medium/heavy armor now.

medium and light armors are exact opposites with 18 damask and 6 elonian for light and 6 damask and 18 elonian for medium.

Make it 12 and 12 for each, then the current price for both would be around 246g instead of the 327g for light and 165g for medium. Oh, and right now heavy is 199g and only requires 23 total ascended mats (7 damask and 16 deldrimor), so add another damask onto heavy and then they would be around the same prices, or just leave it off since heavies tend to have more weapons to use than light and medium professions.

I would imagine if the change were made that light and medium would settle somewhere around the 200g area for price and heavy would be around 180g, once the price of damask and elonian leather stabilize. But this is just a wild guess on price on my part.

I already corrected your numbers on the other thread.

If you are making up imbalanced prices, they will be imbalanced. Not because there is something wrong with silk but because you made them up that way.

I forgot to clarify in my other post. I did it in the other thread, but i’ll repost here.

Guardian Of Tyria.6397:

Wanze.8410:

Fixed for you, as you forgot to consider the damask for the insignias.

Thats light armor only around 35% more expensive than medium and that percentage would go even lower, if we consider all the other mats because they would add value equally to all three weights……..

You are correct, I didn’t include the price of the insignias, but the insignias are common across all crafting disciplines so shouldn’t be considered because they just buffer the actual difference between light/medium/heavy armor.

I boiled it down to the actual differences between armors and didn’t pad the prices with something that is common between all armors.

If you want to look at insignias in the crafting of armor, then perhaps the insignias should be changed too. Have cloth insignias for light armor, leather insignias for medium, and metal for heavy.

Now, before ppl blow up at this, listen. There would be a huge upset in the price of materials to start with but it would stabilizes relatively quickly. Damask price would shoot down (it’s not being fed into all crafting disciplines as much) and elonian and deldrimor would go up.

To me, that’s just too complicated, so that’s why I didn’t consider the aspects that are common across all armor weights and only focused on the differences in the crafting process.

Wanze.8410:

Zalladi.4652:

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

Silk price has been quite stable since ascended armor got introduced, so i dont know why they should cut its demand by 33%, 50% or 66%. It would bring it back to vendor value in no time and even add additional demand on all the other tier cloth, which would go up in price.

In the past month alone, the price of silk has increased 50% from approximately 2s to 3s, and it will keep on rising until some months after the expansion releases.

Source

In the past month, the price for 1 bolt of damask went up from 15g to 17g, a whooping 13% price increase.

Last year, damask went down from 17g to 13g starting halloween, through LS season 2 and wintersday because they added alot of new faucets for cloth in general during those events.

Guess what time of the year it is?

Expansion time. Word from the devs that Raids are balanced around having ascended gear. I hardly call the 33% price increase over the last month for silk scraps as “stable”.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

I’ve always presumed that this was more of a conceptual issue rather than an economic one: many people think that parallel items should have parallel supply/demand curves (and therefore similar prices). Also, a great number of MMO veterans are used to acquiring mats on their own; they don’t agree that it’s preferable to be able do whatever content they like and buy the mats with their coin, rather than be locked into foraging on their own.

In other words, it’s not that people don’t realize that a stable, high-priced silk market can be part of a healthy economy; it’s just that they don’t like it that way.

Usually, they only dont like it when they want to craft ascended mats for their own use , for example, if Anets announces that you will need ascended gear in order to clear the last raid wing or need them to craft precursors or new legendary gear. Most forget that they will only need it starting a couple of months after HoT release because that progression check will be heavily timegated in the case of precursors and legendary gear or wont even be released before in case of the last raids.

I am pretty confident that more cloth will drop, once new content is available and damask will be cheaper in a month than it is now.

Even the amount of hoarded champ bags by the player base might be enough to cause a light price crash right after hot release, once they start opening them all in order to take advantage of adjusted loot tables.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

I’ve always presumed that this was more of a conceptual issue rather than an economic one: many people think that parallel items should have parallel supply/demand curves (and therefore similar prices). Also, a great number of MMO veterans are used to acquiring mats on their own; they don’t agree that it’s preferable to be able do whatever content they like and buy the mats with their coin, rather than be locked into foraging on their own.

In other words, it’s not that people don’t realize that a stable, high-priced silk market can be part of a healthy economy; it’s just that they don’t like it that way.

Many people also think the silk bottleneck is actively encouraging them to use gold. Arenanet has a challenging narrative.

Behellagh.1468:

Wanze.8410:

Zalladi.4652:

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

Silk price has been quite stable since ascended armor got introduced, so i dont know why they should cut its demand by 33%, 50% or 66%. It would bring it back to vendor value in no time and even add additional demand on all the other tier cloth, which would go up in price.

In the past month alone, the price of silk has increased 50% from approximately 2s to 3s, and it will keep on rising until some months after the expansion releases.

Source

In the past month, the price for 1 bolt of damask went up from 15g to 17g, a whooping 13% price increase.

Last year, damask went down from 17g to 13g starting halloween, through LS season 2 and wintersday because they added alot of new faucets for cloth in general during those events.

Guess what time of the year it is?

Expansion time. Word from the devs that Raids are balanced around having ascended gear. I hardly call the 33% price increase over the last month for silk scraps as “stable”.

Guess what? It had the same increase last year in september, from 2.3s to 3.3s, where it stayed for most october until halloween went live and it went down. When wintersday was finished, it was at 1.7s.

Anet knows that there will be additional demand for damask and they will add faucets once that demand kicks in.

If people decide to produce now what they only need in a couple of months, its their personal choice and they cant complain that Anet didnt add enough supply for cloth for their irrational behaviour.

Psientist.6437:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

I’ve always presumed that this was more of a conceptual issue rather than an economic one: many people think that parallel items should have parallel supply/demand curves (and therefore similar prices). Also, a great number of MMO veterans are used to acquiring mats on their own; they don’t agree that it’s preferable to be able do whatever content they like and buy the mats with their coin, rather than be locked into foraging on their own.

In other words, it’s not that people don’t realize that a stable, high-priced silk market can be part of a healthy economy; it’s just that they don’t like it that way.

Many people also think the silk bottleneck is actively encouraging them to use gold. Arenanet has a challenging narrative.

I think there are several reasons why daily silk requirements are set up in a way that most players wont be able to farm it on their own every day without buying any extra.

The main reason is because it simply has no other sink, like mithril for example, which is used extensively in precursor forging, which prevents it that mithril would go to vendor value, like t5 leather did.

Combined with the fact that silk, even though not directly farmable, has probably the most individual sources of any mat in the game, it means that people simply cant avoid looting silk when playing game.

So what happens, if everybody would be able to target farm his daily silk for damask?
They wouldnt need to buy it from the tp anymore, which means that all that silk that is looted unintentionally through one of the many indirect sources from the player base, wouldnt have any buyers on the tp because there is no other sink for it, so its back to vendor value and silk piling up in everybodies bank, while they ask Anet to change the silk scrap requirements from 3 to 4 for one bolt, so they can all clear out their banks….

I really like the approach of Guardian of Tyria.

And yeah, as Illconceived Wa Na pointed out, I am used to getting my own stuff and I really dislike the fact that there isn’t a really reliable way to get cloth. I know it is a personal preference to not buy everything from the TP.

I do remember when they made silk recipes into what it is today. It was to bring back the huge numbers of silk that players had and to create some artificial scarcity due to the necessity of having the material. I do find decreasing the supply by upping the costs on crafting recipes is a nasty way of doing it, if you intend to keep the upped cost permanently.

It would have been great if the cost would be brought down again since the market is now effectively drained with the 3 silk scraps per bolt and 100 bolts for the ascended material while the rest stayed at 50 with 2 of the unrefined versions needed for a refined version.

Undeadkemea.4865:

I really like the approach of Guardian of Tyria.

And yeah, as Illconceived Wa Na pointed out, I am used to getting my own stuff and I really dislike the fact that there isn’t a really reliable way to get cloth. I know it is a personal preference to not buy everything from the TP.

I do remember when they made silk recipes into what it is today. It was to bring back the huge numbers of silk that players had and to create some artificial scarcity due to the necessity of having the material. I do find decreasing the supply by upping the costs on crafting recipes is a nasty way of doing it, if you intend to keep the upped cost permanently.

It would have been great if the cost would be brought down again since the market is now effectively drained with the 3 silk scraps per bolt and 100 bolts for the ascended material while the rest stayed at 50 with 2 of the unrefined versions needed for a refined version.

They didnt just change the recipe in order to suck out silk supply, they changed it to keep crafting cost for all three armor weights high. There is no reason to change the recipe again as it would bring us to back to the original problem of silk being worthless.

Again, if Anet thinks that more cloth within the economy is needed, they will adjust faucets, not the sinks.

Wanze.8410:

Undeadkemea.4865:

I really like the approach of Guardian of Tyria.

And yeah, as Illconceived Wa Na pointed out, I am used to getting my own stuff and I really dislike the fact that there isn’t a really reliable way to get cloth. I know it is a personal preference to not buy everything from the TP.

I do remember when they made silk recipes into what it is today. It was to bring back the huge numbers of silk that players had and to create some artificial scarcity due to the necessity of having the material. I do find decreasing the supply by upping the costs on crafting recipes is a nasty way of doing it, if you intend to keep the upped cost permanently.

It would have been great if the cost would be brought down again since the market is now effectively drained with the 3 silk scraps per bolt and 100 bolts for the ascended material while the rest stayed at 50 with 2 of the unrefined versions needed for a refined version.

They didnt just change the recipe in order to suck out silk supply, they changed it to keep crafting cost for all three armor weights high. There is no reason to change the recipe again as it would bring us to back to the original problem of silk being worthless.

Again, if Anet thinks that more cloth within the economy is needed, they will adjust faucets, not the sinks.

Well that’s odd since they have repeatedly adjusted the sinks in the past.

Essence Snow.3194:

Wanze.8410:

Undeadkemea.4865:

I really like the approach of Guardian of Tyria.

And yeah, as Illconceived Wa Na pointed out, I am used to getting my own stuff and I really dislike the fact that there isn’t a really reliable way to get cloth. I know it is a personal preference to not buy everything from the TP.

I do remember when they made silk recipes into what it is today. It was to bring back the huge numbers of silk that players had and to create some artificial scarcity due to the necessity of having the material. I do find decreasing the supply by upping the costs on crafting recipes is a nasty way of doing it, if you intend to keep the upped cost permanently.

It would have been great if the cost would be brought down again since the market is now effectively drained with the 3 silk scraps per bolt and 100 bolts for the ascended material while the rest stayed at 50 with 2 of the unrefined versions needed for a refined version.

They didnt just change the recipe in order to suck out silk supply, they changed it to keep crafting cost for all three armor weights high. There is no reason to change the recipe again as it would bring us to back to the original problem of silk being worthless.

Again, if Anet thinks that more cloth within the economy is needed, they will adjust faucets, not the sinks.

Well that’s odd since they have repeatedly adjusted the sinks in the past.

You are talking about sinks in general, not the silk sink, which this thread is about.

That one was never adjusted after ascended armor got introduced but they tweaked the faucets for silk and other cloth in the same time quite a bit, for example through Gift of Mawdrey, Generosity Rewards or the updated wintersday gifts last year, which included salvageable fancy clothing.

Again, this comes down to a philosophical view, not an economic one:

• Economic: It’s healthy for prices to fluctuate, going up with the recent increased demand based on Raid-gear speculation and going down when a variety of farms increase the supply. The current recipes keep a stable sink for silk and maintain a high premium for creating ascended gear.
• Philosophic: a portion of players prefer to personally pick up item parts, perhaps plausibly prohibiting purchasing as a possibility.

ANet could completely overhaul the supply of cloth and the recipes, so that cloth isn’t the most expensive component of each type of ascended armor. But isn’t that a lot of trouble to go through to cater to what amounts to personal preferences? (Even if those preferences are shared by a vocal and thoughtful group of players.)

Why do they need to decrease the amount of silk, the only reason I seem to find is that people want easy sets of asc armor, which isn’t going to happen, you can farm the silk needed, go to SW or something, a lot of people already have many sets of asc armor, so decreasing the silk content would annoy that group, IMO its not going to happen, just cheer up and head to SW, like the rest of us..

Increasing the amount of other required materials is what I would do. I’m sure that will please everyone, not.

RustyMech.9876:

Increasing the amount of other required materials is what I would do. I’m sure that will please everyone, not.

If only to make things equal and lift the value of mithril, elder wood, and leather.

Granted, I’m keen on the suggestion I’ve heard to replace one or more bolts of Damask with Elonian Leather in the armor formulas. Raises leather value, drops the heavy leaning on silk for those poor Tailoring folks.

I remember when silk was nothing but vendor trash..

Linen is currently the most rare, as seen by it’s tradepost price
one piece alone costs around 5 silvers.
Please increase the linen drop rate, or add some way to farm it.
Unlike ores, wood and foods that you get from gathering nodes, by going to that particular tiered area, there is no good way to farm cloth.

I wish there where sheeps, cotton, and silk worms in the world that acted as gathering nodes for cloth.

Kite.2510:

Please increase the linen drop rate, or add some way to farm it.

I’m having a forehead-slapping, no-duh moment. One of the features being added for HoT is a way to snag somewhat specific/consistent materials. I didn’t try it out during the beta this weekend (if it were even active). For anyone that did, can someone detail how it works?

Wanze.8410:

What exactly seems to be the problem here?

Silk price has been quite stable since ascended armor got introduced, so i dont know why they should cut its demand by 33%, 50% or 66%. It would bring it back to vendor value in no time and even add additional demand on all the other tier cloth, which would go up in price.

If Anet things that silk is getting too expensive, and I dont think they do, they will do the same as last year around this time. Adjust the faucets a bit, with new LS reward mechanics and Seasonal Festivals, instead of cutting demand by a ridiculously high amount.

It would not bring it back to vendor level. Its used in to many recipes. When it was at vendor level there was no recipes worth using it in. I mean why would you make level 80 silk gear when you could make gossamer gear instead. So the reason it was at vendor level was because it was literally useless. Now it has use beyond any other material so the refinements for it(and all other materials) should be more consistent. Sure all the TP players won’t like it but it would not be bad for the game in anyway.

I don’t even craft my ascended armor to acquire it; I’ve gotten almost two full sets solely from fotm rewards and pvp chests.

Rauderi.8706:

RustyMech.9876:

Increasing the amount of other required materials is what I would do. I’m sure that will please everyone, not.

If only to make things equal and lift the value of mithril, elder wood, and leather.

Granted, I’m keen on the suggestion I’ve heard to replace one or more bolts of Damask with Elonian Leather in the armor formulas. Raises leather value, drops the heavy leaning on silk for those poor Tailoring folks.

A similar idea would be to make it so insignias could be made out of other materials. So instead of cloth mats they could be made out of metal or leather materials. There really aren’t any good reasons to not have everything more consistent.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Rauderi.8706:

RustyMech.9876:

Increasing the amount of other required materials is what I would do. I’m sure that will please everyone, not.

If only to make things equal and lift the value of mithril, elder wood, and leather.

Granted, I’m keen on the suggestion I’ve heard to replace one or more bolts of Damask with Elonian Leather in the armor formulas. Raises leather value, drops the heavy leaning on silk for those poor Tailoring folks.

A similar idea would be to make it so insignias could be made out of other materials. So instead of cloth mats they could be made out of metal or leather materials. There really aren’t any good reasons to not have everything more consistent.

That was the other idea I remember hearing. I knew it was something like that.

I think everything is fine. I like when crafting materials are expensive so I can get more gold for my stuff. Lower prices for crafting mats is bad for me.

Rauderi.8706:

RustyMech.9876:

Increasing the amount of other required materials is what I would do. I’m sure that will please everyone, not.

If only to make things equal and lift the value of mithril, elder wood, and leather.

As already mentioned, I also dont see why each t5 material has to have the same value.

Their roles in the game economy are very different. Silk and thick leather only have 1 decent sink, ascended crafting, so their value is only based on supply and demand for that. But their difference is that most players cant farm the required daily amount of silk but they get more than enough leather for their daily use. And most players need more damask than elonian leather anyways. Thats why their price is so fundamentally different, silk is valuable and leather at vendor value. As a player, i dont know what is worse, the high price of silk, which comes in handy, once you dojnt have demand yourself and get a good price for your loot, or the low cost of leather, which makes me sell all my lvl medium gear and leather to vendor rather than posting it on the tp for half a copper more than vendor value after taxes, if it sells at some point. T5 leather is just a hassle to get ride of, personally it annoys me more than the high price of silk.

However, elder wood and mithril have a very different role in the economy compared to thick leather and silk because ascended crafting isnt their only sink. They are used extensively in crafting rare weapons to throw into the forge for precursors.

As this topic came up about 6 months ago, i made some calculations because i just came off a decent spell on the mf, forging 20 precursors from rares within a couple of weeks.

In order to craft a rare gs from scratch, you need 24 mithril ingots and 18 elder wood, a rare staff needs 18 mithril and 30 elder wood.
I needed an average a little short of 2000 rare werapons per precursor, other large data samples quoted a bit more than 2k rare weapons.

Calculating with 2k rare weapons per pre, it would mean that for copper that elder wood and mithril rises in value, it costs 8.4g more on average to forge a gs precursor and 9.6g more to craft the legend.

Right now, mithril costs 60c, elder wood 80c and silk 300 copper, at what value would you like to see elder wood and mithril? 1s….1.5s….2s?

at 1s for each, it would cost 252g more to forge dusk/dawn, 288g more to forge the legend, at 1.5s each it would be 672G/768g, at 2s it would be 1092g/1572g more.

And that would be added value to the already existing forging costs of a little under 1000g.

I dont know, if thats a desired side effect or not….

Thanks for the numerical analysis. I’m hardly committed to raising T5 wood and metal, just a sort of “that’d be nice” thing because I farm quite a bit. :P

The silk/leather split is irritating, and it bears a somewhat easy solution. Decrease the need for Damask and increase use for Elonian Leather. Even if it’s just giving Leatherworking and Tailoring the option to use Elonian Leather to make insignias, that would help ease things out by a lot. Armorsmithing wouldn’t quite get the benefit, but it doesn’t use leather so.. eh.
Leather would get a better sink, silk prices come down respectably, and Tailoring costs moderate significantly.

As I keep saying, cutting the silk scrap requirement in half or a third isn’t going to shift the price of silk all that much as demand for Damask is 3-5x higher than the other ascended mats for armor. For weapons Damask isn’t used at all and Deldrimor Steel, meaning iron, is the primary mat with a little Elonian Leather and even less Spirtwood Planks. Still adding in weapon needs doesn’t offset the shear amount of Damask required to ascend out a full compliment of professions with all weapons of those professions. I’m just to tired to figured that out right now.

In the end it’s rate of supply over actual demand that determines price of the raw mats in the end and silk is always going to have a higher demand than supply, no matter what is done to the recipe for Damask.

Behellagh.1468:

As I keep saying, cutting the silk scrap requirement in half or a third isn’t going to shift the price of silk all that much as demand for Damask is 3-5x higher than the other ascended mats for armor. For weapons Damask isn’t used at all and Deldrimor Steel, meaning iron, is the primary mat with a little Elonian Leather and even less Spirtwood Planks. Still adding in weapon needs doesn’t offset the shear amount of Damask required to ascend out a full compliment of professions with all weapons of those professions. I’m just to tired to figured that out right now.

In the end it’s rate of supply over actual demand that determines price of the raw mats in the end and silk is always going to have a higher demand than supply, no matter what is done to the recipe for Damask.

Can you elaborate, why you think that silk will always have a higher demand than supply?

What do you think will happen, once the requirements are nerfed down to 150 scraps per day and nearly everybody who wants to craft damask, will be able to get enough through indirect loot sources?

There simply wont be any demand for it on the tp for those silk scraps that are looted by those players that dont want to craft damask. There is no other sink for silk.

I dont deny that right now there might be more demand for silk than there is supply, but it isnt as significant as you claim. Maybe the overall silk supply in game (not only on the tp but also stored in peoples banks and storage or in light armor, containers and salvage materials is losing 1-2% every week. If you take 50% of the global demand away, we will have a huge oversupply every week.

Halloween has traditionally been a pretty big cloth faucet. If that hold true this year then silk prices will fall pretty quickly.

The biggest variable is HoT. There is a LOT of new stuff coming with HoT, and we know pretty much nothing of the requirements. The economy is going to undergo some pretty big shifts over the next month, so get ready for a rollercoaster ride.

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

As I keep saying, cutting the silk scrap requirement in half or a third isn’t going to shift the price of silk all that much as demand for Damask is 3-5x higher than the other ascended mats for armor. For weapons Damask isn’t used at all and Deldrimor Steel, meaning iron, is the primary mat with a little Elonian Leather and even less Spirtwood Planks. Still adding in weapon needs doesn’t offset the shear amount of Damask required to ascend out a full compliment of professions with all weapons of those professions. I’m just to tired to figured that out right now.

In the end it’s rate of supply over actual demand that determines price of the raw mats in the end and silk is always going to have a higher demand than supply, no matter what is done to the recipe for Damask.

Can you elaborate, why you think that silk will always have a higher demand than supply?

What do you think will happen, once the requirements are nerfed down to 150 scraps per day and nearly everybody who wants to craft damask, will be able to get enough through indirect loot sources?

There simply wont be any demand for it on the tp for those silk scraps that are looted by those players that dont want to craft damask. There is no other sink for silk.

I dont deny that right now there might be more demand for silk than there is supply, but it isnt as significant as you claim. Maybe the overall silk supply in game (not only on the tp but also stored in peoples banks and storage or in light armor, containers and salvage materials is losing 1-2% every week. If you take 50% of the global demand away, we will have a huge oversupply every week.

My assumption is silk scrap drops as much as thick leather does. You need 150 thick leather per Elonian which would be the same if you alter Damask to need 50 silk bolts instead of 100 as it is now. But since Damask is needed 3x more than Elonian, demand for silk will remain higher than thick leather, so it shouldn’t crash to minimum value that thick leather hovers at times.

When a player gets mats they do one of three things, they keep them, they sell them to the high bidder, they try to sell it above the high bid price. The only thing we get to see on the TP is the amount players are selling not to the high bidder. Sure you can look at the quantity of bids to try to determine how much is being sold directly but because bids could be pulled for no loss to the bidder, it’s fuzzy at best to try and determine the amount sold directly to bidders. Sure some clever player could write something to grab all the bids every, whatever ANet show us is updated at, get a better handle on bid movement and ask movement to get a better guess at a velocity to estimate what actual supply and demand is but I don’t think that halving the silk requirement for Damask is going to collapse the silk market. Not as long as Damask is required at 3x that of Elonian Leather.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Halloween has traditionally been a pretty big cloth faucet. If that hold true this year then silk prices will fall pretty quickly.

The biggest variable is HoT. There is a LOT of new stuff coming with HoT, and we know pretty much nothing of the requirements. The economy is going to undergo some pretty big shifts over the next month, so get ready for a rollercoaster ride.

I forget, what’s the cloth faucet on halloween?

Behellagh.1468:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Halloween has traditionally been a pretty big cloth faucet. If that hold true this year then silk prices will fall pretty quickly.

The biggest variable is HoT. There is a LOT of new stuff coming with HoT, and we know pretty much nothing of the requirements. The economy is going to undergo some pretty big shifts over the next month, so get ready for a rollercoaster ride.

I forget, what’s the cloth faucet on halloween?

Trick or treat bags mostly, and all the stuff in the maze.

And that’s probably why I don’t remember. Never got/did either.

Behellagh.1468:

And that’s probably why I don’t remember. Never got/did either.

Those who don’t remember Halloween are condemned to repeat it?

Behellagh.1468:

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

As I keep saying, cutting the silk scrap requirement in half or a third isn’t going to shift the price of silk all that much as demand for Damask is 3-5x higher than the other ascended mats for armor. For weapons Damask isn’t used at all and Deldrimor Steel, meaning iron, is the primary mat with a little Elonian Leather and even less Spirtwood Planks. Still adding in weapon needs doesn’t offset the shear amount of Damask required to ascend out a full compliment of professions with all weapons of those professions. I’m just to tired to figured that out right now.

In the end it’s rate of supply over actual demand that determines price of the raw mats in the end and silk is always going to have a higher demand than supply, no matter what is done to the recipe for Damask.

Can you elaborate, why you think that silk will always have a higher demand than supply?

What do you think will happen, once the requirements are nerfed down to 150 scraps per day and nearly everybody who wants to craft damask, will be able to get enough through indirect loot sources?

There simply wont be any demand for it on the tp for those silk scraps that are looted by those players that dont want to craft damask. There is no other sink for silk.

I dont deny that right now there might be more demand for silk than there is supply, but it isnt as significant as you claim. Maybe the overall silk supply in game (not only on the tp but also stored in peoples banks and storage or in light armor, containers and salvage materials is losing 1-2% every week. If you take 50% of the global demand away, we will have a huge oversupply every week.

My assumption is silk scrap drops as much as thick leather does. You need 150 thick leather per Elonian which would be the same if you alter Damask to need 50 silk bolts instead of 100 as it is now. But since Damask is needed 3x more than Elonian, demand for silk will remain higher than thick leather, so it shouldn’t crash to minimum value that thick leather hovers at times.

When a player gets mats they do one of three things, they keep them, they sell them to the high bidder, they try to sell it above the high bid price. The only thing we get to see on the TP is the amount players are selling not to the high bidder. Sure you can look at the quantity of bids to try to determine how much is being sold directly but because bids could be pulled for no loss to the bidder, it’s fuzzy at best to try and determine the amount sold directly to bidders. Sure some clever player could write something to grab all the bids every, whatever ANet show us is updated at, get a better handle on bid movement and ask movement to get a better guess at a velocity to estimate what actual supply and demand is but I don’t think that halving the silk requirement for Damask is going to collapse the silk market. Not as long as Damask is required at 3x that of Elonian Leather.

Well, i think already your first assumption is wrong. It might have been the case when GW2 launched, that cloth and leather dropped at the same ratio but it certainly isnt true now, i would say. Especially in the last year, when LS season 2 started, they added alot of new faucets for cloth but not leather. Some examples are wintersday gifts, which got salvageable knit clothing on the loot table but no leather drops, a cloth node for the home instance but no leather node, bandit chests, which drop cloth mats directly but no leather, Gift from Mawdrey, which drops cloth directly (but no leather) and a new salvage item (masses) which salvage into cloth but none for leather, and there are various other containers, that got introduced in the last 12 months, which provide a direct or indirect faucet of cloth but not leather. I could list more but i guess you get my point.

Going off TP listings and buy orders and estimating transactions based on variation over time in listings and buy orders is guesswork at best, gw2bltc.com actually tracks those variations, here are the numbers comparing t5 leather and cloth for the last 24 hours:

Thick Leather Square: 46k sold (variation in buy orders) 56k bought (variation in listings)
Bolt of Silk: 87k sold, 35k bought
Thick leather section: 129k sold, 650k bought
Silk scrap: 174k sold, 273k bought

Funnily enough, those number return the exact same amount for refined t5 cloth and leather but for unrefined, we nearly see 80% more transactions for leather than cloth.

And we have to keep in mind that a good amount of t5 leather is being destroyed by selling it the tp a to vendor as most people dont bother to list it at vendor value+15%, especially medium armor of higher level, s i good amount of t5 leather isnt even entering the tp anymore.

In order to determine real demand, we would have to look, how many silk is being destroyed each day by using it as a crafting material, which only Anet can do.

But lets go back to your original proposal, to nerf the silk requirements by 50% from 300 to 150 scraps per day.

Your reasoning was that demand for silk is way higher than supply. I guess we agree, that ascended crafting is the only sink for silk. Sure, it gets used in craft leveling and crafting rare armor but i guess the amount of silk used for that is neglegible.
Cutting the damask recipe by 50% would mean taking away 50%, maybe 45% of the whole demand for silk away.

Do you really think that demand is that much higher than supply?
If it was, we would be out of supply within 2 day, no?
What if demand is outpacing supply by only 5-10% right now?
Wouldnt we then only have a demand of 55% while supply is still at 100%.

The problem with silk is that its supply is quite inelastic, you cant really target farm it and you cant really avoid getting it either, so the player base cant really react too much to supply and demand shifts.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Behellagh.1468:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Halloween has traditionally been a pretty big cloth faucet. If that hold true this year then silk prices will fall pretty quickly.

The biggest variable is HoT. There is a LOT of new stuff coming with HoT, and we know pretty much nothing of the requirements. The economy is going to undergo some pretty big shifts over the next month, so get ready for a rollercoaster ride.

I forget, what’s the cloth faucet on halloween?

Trick or treat bags mostly, and all the stuff in the maze.

Last time i checked, T&T bags dont drop cloth or gear that salvages into cloth, you probably mixed it up with wintersday gifts and beautyful clothing.

But the maze usually had a high amount of mobs that dropped gear and cloth, which was responsible for new cloth influx.

Silk is awesome! Don’t change anything that impacts ascing crafting.

Whoever doesn’t like it, buy it with gold from ah! (Or from me )