Guild Wars 2

colesy.8490:

give me trinity

People are saying that?
I’m going to need to get glasses I guess…

colesy.8490:

The tank and healer are aggroing the boss and spamming heals so that the party as a whole can maximise their DPS. In GW2, you have classes that can mitigate damage received and increase damage dealt in order to maximise DPS, you’re just not required to have tanks and healers in order to achieve this, instead it’s a case of take classes that can stack might, fury, protection, reflects and aegis without it having to be one specific class for the set role.

But they are not dpsing! see the difference? They are doing something else to help their party. The same result is achieved in a different way forcing players to assume different roles to make it happen. I can’t believe you still don’t see it. Maybe it’s me failing to explain this kindergarten concept.

colesy.8490:

But all I’m seeing from you is QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ i hate zerker give me trinity when the game was quite clearly advertised as no trinity.

what are you 12? In what post on this thread did I say anything against zerk?

The game don’t need trinity go berserker or go home the rest are training wheels, there are games with trinity teso will have trinity too when it comes. The downside is 15$ monthly fees. That’s a pretty big downside for me who play fps games more than gw2.

But they are not dpsing! see the difference? They are doing something else to help their party. The same result is achieved in a different way forcing players to assume different roles to make it happen. I can’t believe you still don’t see it. Maybe it’s me failing to explain this kindergarten concept.

They’re holding aggro to maximise group DPS. Healer is healing to keep the team upright to maximise DPS.

Now to GW2. Guardian is putting up reflects to keep the team upright to maximise DPS. Warrior is stacking might to increase group damage output to maximise their DPS.

The GW2 design is better because it promotes active play (you are supporting and DPSing at the same time) rather than falling asleep watching HP bars or doing a taunt the moment you lose aggro. Why do you think the fact that everyone can perform support roles in addition to DPSing is a bad thing? Do you not like being useful?

tom.7468:

The game don’t need trinity go berserker or go home the rest are training wheels, there are games with trinity teso will have trinity too when it comes. The downside is 15$ monthly fees. That’s a pretty big downside for me who play fps games more than gw2.

Again with the trinity. When did people get so limited to think? who says anything about trinity? Read the game manifesto first. Read about support and control roles. Then read the whole thread. Then grow up and post like a man not like a kid playing cool.

colesy.8490:

But they are not dpsing! see the difference? They are doing something else to help their party. The same result is achieved in a different way forcing players to assume different roles to make it happen. I can’t believe you still don’t see it. Maybe it’s me failing to explain this kindergarten concept.

They’re holding aggro to maximise group DPS. Healer is healing to keep the team upright to maximise DPS.

Now to GW2. Guardian is putting up reflects to keep the team upright to maximise DPS. Warrior is stacking might to increase group damage output to maximise their DPS.

The GW2 design is better because it promotes active play (you are supporting and DPSing at the same time) rather than falling asleep watching HP bars or doing a taunt the moment you lose aggro. Why do you think the fact that everyone can perform support roles in addition to DPSing is a bad thing? Do you not like being useful?

It’s amazing that you keep using examples as how the currently is.

I’m done with you. You lack the ability to think beyond what you can see. I’m sorry for you.

Good, go away and be useless somewhere else.

Mesket.5728:

colesy.8490:

But they are not dpsing! see the difference? They are doing something else to help their party. The same result is achieved in a different way forcing players to assume different roles to make it happen. I can’t believe you still don’t see it. Maybe it’s me failing to explain this kindergarten concept.

They’re holding aggro to maximise group DPS. Healer is healing to keep the team upright to maximise DPS.

Now to GW2. Guardian is putting up reflects to keep the team upright to maximise DPS. Warrior is stacking might to increase group damage output to maximise their DPS.

The GW2 design is better because it promotes active play (you are supporting and DPSing at the same time) rather than falling asleep watching HP bars or doing a taunt the moment you lose aggro. Why do you think the fact that everyone can perform support roles in addition to DPSing is a bad thing? Do you not like being useful?

It’s amazing that you keep using examples as how the currently is.

I’m done with you. You lack the ability to think beyond what you can see. I’m sorry for you.

You are always forgeting that not all professions/builds are great at providing Projectile Reflections, Fury buffs, Might Stacks, AoE Quickness and AoE Stealth. It’s not like everyone can AoE cure conditions, immobilize mobs at key parts or provide Swiftness. You are really over-simplifying things.
In a party with 5 similar DPS Warriors yes everyone is doing the exact same thing but it’s not like that’s true for the whole game.
Not all builds are the same and not all professions are the same / play the same despite what you are saying.

Mesket.5728:

tom.7468:

The game don’t need trinity go berserker or go home the rest are training wheels, there are games with trinity teso will have trinity too when it comes. The downside is 15$ monthly fees. That’s a pretty big downside for me who play fps games more than gw2.

Again with the trinity. When did people get so limited to think? who says anything about trinity? Read the game manifesto first. Read about support and control roles. Then read the whole thread. Then grow up and post like a man not like a kid playing cool.

I have seen the manifesto on youtube and everything is wrong.
The optimal stats is berserker why even use anything else in pve.
Even if they made healing viable, made it heal for as much as mobs hit and as frequent. You could still just dodge the attacks. As long as the game have dodging there is no way the others can be viable. I know what support/control roles mean.

Mesket.5728:

colesy.8490:

Stacking might and fury, chaining blocks, putting up reflects and positioning mobs is team work. J

If you truly need to do all that to complete a dungeon in this game you are worst than I thought.

I really want to see someone doing frac 50 without any team support, no boons etc.
No FGJ, protection, vulnerability, weakness, heals, aegis, reflects, blinds. etc.
It is clearly much harder that way and most people in this game wouldn’t be able to complete it.

Of course you’re batman just like everyone on gaming forums, and you could autoattack your way through frac 50 with white gear, solo, while watching anime on your second screen.
I don’t dispute that man, I’m totally convinced about that.

But, beside unkillable forum gods like Your majesty, we have the majority playing GW2 composed of normal, mortal peasants who would fail in those conditions.

tom.7468:

I have seen the manifesto on youtube and everything is wrong.
The optimal stats is berserker why even use anything else in pve.
Even if they made healing viable, made it heal for as much as mobs hit and as frequent. You could still just dodge the attacks. As long as the game have dodging there is no way the others can be viable.

This

tom.7468:

I know what support/control roles mean.

says you don’t

Red Falcon.8257:

Mesket.5728:

colesy.8490:

Stacking might and fury, chaining blocks, putting up reflects and positioning mobs is team work. J

If you truly need to do all that to complete a dungeon in this game you are worst than I thought.

I really want to see someone doing frac 50 without any team support, no boons etc.
No FGJ, protection, vulnerability, weakness, heals, aegis, reflects, blinds. etc.
It is clearly much harder that way and most people in this game wouldn’t be able to complete it.

Of course you’re batman just like everyone on gaming forums, and you could autoattack your way through frac 50 with white gear, solo, while watching anime on your second screen.
I don’t dispute that man, I’m totally convinced about that.

But, beside unkillable forum gods like Your majesty, we have the majority playing GW2 composed of normal, mortal peasants who would fail in those conditions.

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

maddoctor.2738:

Mesket.5728:

colesy.8490:

But they are not dpsing! see the difference? They are doing something else to help their party. The same result is achieved in a different way forcing players to assume different roles to make it happen. I can’t believe you still don’t see it. Maybe it’s me failing to explain this kindergarten concept.

They’re holding aggro to maximise group DPS. Healer is healing to keep the team upright to maximise DPS.

Now to GW2. Guardian is putting up reflects to keep the team upright to maximise DPS. Warrior is stacking might to increase group damage output to maximise their DPS.

The GW2 design is better because it promotes active play (you are supporting and DPSing at the same time) rather than falling asleep watching HP bars or doing a taunt the moment you lose aggro. Why do you think the fact that everyone can perform support roles in addition to DPSing is a bad thing? Do you not like being useful?

It’s amazing that you keep using examples as how the currently is.

I’m done with you. You lack the ability to think beyond what you can see. I’m sorry for you.

You are always forgeting that not all professions/builds are great at providing Projectile Reflections, Fury buffs, Might Stacks, AoE Quickness and AoE Stealth. It’s not like everyone can AoE cure conditions, immobilize mobs at key parts or provide Swiftness. You are really over-simplifying things.
In a party with 5 similar DPS Warriors yes everyone is doing the exact same thing but it’s not like that’s true for the whole game.
Not all builds are the same and not all professions are the same / play the same despite what you are saying.

I agree, and I understand that some mechanics belong to certain classes. What I’m talking about is something beyond that. It is how a player (of any class) can fulfill the role of support by doing support and not dps (or control for all that matter). Like in other games where you have the trinity, each one of the 3 do different things; while here, we all do the same: Hit the boss and play the eventual one trick pony of your class.

I believe this game has room for improvement in that aspect to better fit the category of a role playing game but it would require a change not only in how useful other sets are, but also in the game content (mobs and bosses skills, mechanics, etc). If you read all my threads, you will realize this is all I was saying totally miss interpreted by other forum users that only has 1 idea in their heads.

people in this thread are getting distracted, they are arguing about builds, when the issue here is gear stats.

By using a variety of skills and coordinating with other players you can in fact make encounters easier, and more entertaining, Team play is there.

Though hard and fast only one guy can do X Y or Z is not, having hard roles is not the only way to teamplay. Its simply easier to manage and optimize players for. However, a team of skilled people with many abilities can also play with incredible teamwork

back on the topic of stats, regardless of where you stand on roles and teamplay, the prob is stat wise, at high level of play, there is no benefit to stating other than dps. There is benefit to making your build more than dps focused, but not your stats.

berserker gear can
dps way better
CC the same
Support to the same magnitude
use all defensive abilities just as well

for example, a support focused mesmer may have traits and skills that focus on support, giving boons, and interupting enemies.
the best gear for this playtype if the player is skilled? berserker, because no other gear set makes much impact on what he is doing anyway

as any other set. As long as this is the same, berserker will always be the elite option

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

Nothing wasted man, I love to read threads where PvE carebeargods come down insulting everyone and demanding their opinion is considered a fact even though it has no more validating data than the 200 opinions posted before.

I’m sorry but the reality is that most people struggle with endgame pve (aka frac 40-50 and not loldungeons) and actually need a Guardian to Prot them up, reflects, etc – so there is already a lot of use for pieces of PVT/Cavalier in that content zone.
Just FYI normal dungeons can be solo’d, including Arah; they are mid-game content not meant to need more than a 5 DPS casual team or 1 good player.

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Red Falcon.8257:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

Nothing wasted man, I love to read threads where PvE carebeargods come down insulting everyone and demanding their opinion is considered a fact even though it has no more validating data than the 200 opinions posted before.

I’m sorry but the reality is that most people struggle with endgame pve (aka frac 40-50 and not loldungeons) and actually need a Guardian to Prot them up, reflects, etc – so there is already a lot of use for pieces of PVT/Cavalier in that content zone.
Just FYI normal dungeons can be solo’d, including Arah; they are mid-game content not meant to need more than a 5 DPS casual team or 1 good player.

i dont disagree that game difficulty is part of the reason, but note, the purpose of PVT even in those instances is to help the average player. Once you get really good, you move up to berserker, with maybe slight toughness here and there.

Essentially you are saying gear is more about setting the difficulty of the event, and less about builds, or playstyles. Its an interesting perspective, but is that the what gear should be?

Red Falcon.8257:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

Nothing wasted man, I love to read threads where PvE carebeargods come down insulting everyone and demanding…

I stop reading there… make sense and come back.

phys.7689:

for example, a support focused mesmer may have traits and skills that focus on support, giving boons, and interupting enemies.
the best gear for this playtype if the player is skilled? berserker, because no other gear set makes much impact on what he is doing anyway

as any other set. As long as this is the same, berserker will always be the elite option

Yup, exactly why my suggestion goes toward a change in boon duration for boon potency. Give support role a stat for them and balance it not only viable but desired. Same can be applied for control if ANet put their people to think a little longer.

@mesket: gw2 will never have tank/healer in pve. because in gw2, everyone can be useful, everyone can dps, everyone can play active.
they even said that before the game was released.

if you want to play a tank/healer play wvw/pvp or move on to another game with trinity.
seriously.
stop being so close minded and maybe you will start to like the combat system in gw2.

NoTrigger.8396:

@mesket: gw2 will never have tank/healer in pve. because in gw2, everyone can be useful, everyone can dps, everyone can play active.
they even said that before the game was released.

if you want to play a tank/healer play wvw/pvp or move on to another game with trinity.
seriously.

LOL seriously??? hahahaha man please read again…

I NEVER said I wanted tanks and healers. If anything I’m against them in this game. PLEASE read again.

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

@mesket: gw2 will never have tank/healer in pve. because in gw2, everyone can be useful, everyone can dps, everyone can play active.
they even said that before the game was released.

if you want to play a tank/healer play wvw/pvp or move on to another game with trinity.
seriously.

LOL seriously??? hahahaha man please read again…

I NEVER said I wanted tanks and healers. If anything I’m against them in this game. PLEASE read again.

a few posts ago u said trinity in gw2 would have been nice.

seriously man. there is no reason to be so mad about berserker gear. maybe you just have to get better at the game so you can use it as well.

other than that: dodge wont be removed. so nothing will really change.

and if you think all people do in gw2 is dps then you are simply wrong.

haviz.1340:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Mike O’Brien Manifesto?

is or can be. Two different things.

Currently it is by designed and everyone is everything. We agree. This is what many players don’t like and prefer to see a specialization into roles (required by content). So everyone can be everything but fit one role at a time to have more team work.

5 × 1 man army =/= 1 × 5 man army

I think they tried to make it so and failed.

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

@mesket: gw2 will never have tank/healer in pve. because in gw2, everyone can be useful, everyone can dps, everyone can play active.
they even said that before the game was released.

if you want to play a tank/healer play wvw/pvp or move on to another game with trinity.
seriously.

LOL seriously??? hahahaha man please read again…

I NEVER said I wanted tanks and healers. If anything I’m against them in this game. PLEASE read again.

a few posts ago u said trinity in gw2 would have been nice.

seriously man. there is no reason to be so mad about berserker gear. maybe you just have to get better at the game so you can use it as well.

other than that: dodge wont be removed. so nothing will really change.

and if you think all people do in gw2 is dps then you are simply wrong.

But all they do is DPS. The majority of the Boons/“teamplay” comes as a byproduct of that DPS.

Mesket.5728:

haviz.1340:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Mike O’Brien Manifesto?

is or can be. Two different things.

Currently it is by designed and everyone is everything. We agree. This is what many players don’t like and prefer to see a specialization into roles (required by content). So everyone can be everything but fit one role at a time to have more team work.

5 × 1 man army =/= 1 × 5 man army

I think they tried to make it so and failed.

“what many players dont like”

did you start a poll or something?
and i dont believe you have ever seen good guilds running dungeons or fractals. because there is already alot of teamwork.

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

@mesket: gw2 will never have tank/healer in pve. because in gw2, everyone can be useful, everyone can dps, everyone can play active.
they even said that before the game was released.

if you want to play a tank/healer play wvw/pvp or move on to another game with trinity.
seriously.

LOL seriously??? hahahaha man please read again…

I NEVER said I wanted tanks and healers. If anything I’m against them in this game. PLEASE read again.

a few posts ago u said trinity in gw2 would have been nice.

seriously man. there is no reason to be so mad about berserker gear. maybe you just have to get better at the game so you can use it as well.

other than that: dodge wont be removed. so nothing will really change.

and if you think all people do in gw2 is dps then you are simply wrong.

Ok, I re-read all my posts here.-

I didn’t ask for Trinity in GW2. Never, in any thread. You are wrong, again, for the second time in the same thread on the same thing. I told you before, now you are wrong again. I DONT WANT TRINITY IN GW2. Clear?

I’m not mad about zerk, I’m all in favor for max dps builds. I have a couple of chars full zerk of my own as well. Don’t assume too much about my playstyle. I’m merely tossing out an opinion of how I think things could be. Not about how I do them or think they are now.

I don’t think that’s all people do here, there is also crafting and jumping puzzles. The rest is plain dps or what most elitists call, a bad player.

NoTrigger.8396:

a few posts ago u said trinity in gw2 would have been nice.

seriously man. there is no reason to be so mad about berserker gear. maybe you just have to get better at the game so you can use it as well.

other than that: dodge wont be removed. so nothing will really change.

and if you think all people do in gw2 is dps then you are simply wrong.

You are missing the point.

It is not about trinity, it is about roles, whether it is 2, 3, or 5 roles. Whether they are tank, healer, DPS or Control, support, DPS it doesn’t matter its about having combat roles.

It’s true we technically do more than DPS, but what matters most in most PVE content is our DPS. Because like I’ve said before, a guardian wearing all cleric is no more supportive in PVE than a guardian wearing all berserker. WoR, shouts, symbols, and dodge all have the same cooldowns and effects. But the one wearing berserker is dealing 300% more damage. So there is very little reason to wear anything but berserker.

This is a problem not because anyone hates berserker gear. That is just silly. It is a problem because we have 17 stat combinations that are underused, undervalued, and near useless for optimization. This hurts the game. Everyone wearing 1 set of gear in PvE is not a good thing.

ok so you want specific roles.
whats the difference compared to a trinity?

someone already said it: there will always be 1 better statcombo.
no matter how you change it.

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

haviz.1340:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Mike O’Brien Manifesto?

is or can be. Two different things.

Currently it is by designed and everyone is everything. We agree. This is what many players don’t like and prefer to see a specialization into roles (required by content). So everyone can be everything but fit one role at a time to have more team work.

5 × 1 man army =/= 1 × 5 man army

I think they tried to make it so and failed.

“what many players dont like”

did you start a poll or something?
and i dont believe you have ever seen good guilds running dungeons or fractals. because there is already alot of teamwork.

I don’t think you can consider there is teamwork in GW2 because high lvl fractals requires it. That’s not even 1% of the game.

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

haviz.1340:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Mike O’Brien Manifesto?

is or can be. Two different things.

Currently it is by designed and everyone is everything. We agree. This is what many players don’t like and prefer to see a specialization into roles (required by content). So everyone can be everything but fit one role at a time to have more team work.

5 × 1 man army =/= 1 × 5 man army

I think they tried to make it so and failed.

“what many players dont like”

did you start a poll or something?
and i dont believe you have ever seen good guilds running dungeons or fractals. because there is already alot of teamwork.

I don’t think you can consider there is teamwork in GW2 because high lvl fractals requires it. That’s not even 1% of the game.

yes because gw2 is lacking difficult content. but that doesnt change the fact that good guilds have a lot of teamwork when running dungeons or fractals.

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

haviz.1340:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Mike O’Brien Manifesto?

is or can be. Two different things.

Currently it is by designed and everyone is everything. We agree. This is what many players don’t like and prefer to see a specialization into roles (required by content). So everyone can be everything but fit one role at a time to have more team work.

5 × 1 man army =/= 1 × 5 man army

I think they tried to make it so and failed.

“what many players dont like”

did you start a poll or something?
and i dont believe you have ever seen good guilds running dungeons or fractals. because there is already alot of teamwork.

I don’t think you can consider there is teamwork in GW2 because high lvl fractals requires it. That’s not even 1% of the game.

yes because gw2 is lacking difficult content. but that doesnt change the fact that good guilds have a lot of teamwork when running dungeons or fractals.

And finally you end up agreeing on my point. GW2 lacks the content that would require 5 players working together. The rest was suggestion for improving the roles proposed by ANet.

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

haviz.1340:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Mike O’Brien Manifesto?

is or can be. Two different things.

Currently it is by designed and everyone is everything. We agree. This is what many players don’t like and prefer to see a specialization into roles (required by content). So everyone can be everything but fit one role at a time to have more team work.

5 × 1 man army =/= 1 × 5 man army

I think they tried to make it so and failed.

“what many players dont like”

did you start a poll or something?
and i dont believe you have ever seen good guilds running dungeons or fractals. because there is already alot of teamwork.

I don’t think you can consider there is teamwork in GW2 because high lvl fractals requires it. That’s not even 1% of the game.

yes because gw2 is lacking difficult content. but that doesnt change the fact that good guilds have a lot of teamwork when running dungeons or fractals.

And finally you end up agreeing on my point. GW2 lacks the content that would require 5 players working together. The rest was suggestion for improving the roles proposed by ANet.

everyone agrees there mate. but to make that happen you dont need to nerf berserker into the ground. its all about how well you play. if you are not that good you simply use knights or pvt. as soon as you become better you will get away with berserker. thats about it.
and supporting your team and statcombos are different things.

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

haviz.1340:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Mike O’Brien Manifesto?

is or can be. Two different things.

Currently it is by designed and everyone is everything. We agree. This is what many players don’t like and prefer to see a specialization into roles (required by content). So everyone can be everything but fit one role at a time to have more team work.

5 × 1 man army =/= 1 × 5 man army

I think they tried to make it so and failed.

“what many players dont like”

did you start a poll or something?
and i dont believe you have ever seen good guilds running dungeons or fractals. because there is already alot of teamwork.

I don’t think you can consider there is teamwork in GW2 because high lvl fractals requires it. That’s not even 1% of the game.

yes because gw2 is lacking difficult content. but that doesnt change the fact that good guilds have a lot of teamwork when running dungeons or fractals.

And finally you end up agreeing on my point. GW2 lacks the content that would require 5 players working together. The rest was suggestion for improving the roles proposed by ANet.

everyone agrees there mate. but to make that happen you dont need to nerf berserker into the ground. its all about how well you play. if you are not that good you simply use knights or pvt. as soon as you become better you will get away with berserker. thats about it.
and supporting your team and statcombos are different things.

But I never said that zerk should be nerfed, please, read my posts. All I said is that if any, other sets should be on par by improving the content. This will help the game by adding some variety and diversity. Think about market also, prices are all narrowed down to zerk gear currently.. it would be nice to see other specs valuable as well.

Where do you see that moving from one set of gear to the next is considered progression? That is something that the playerbase made up here because there is no challenge. Reducing survivability and completing things faster… that is made up challenge because the game is offering none (besides 48+)

ya but there will always be players who are good enough to be able to run improved content with berserker. and the pugs will copy it.

Make condition damage builds on par with zerk builds. Done.

NoTrigger.8396:

ok so you want specific roles.
whats the difference compared to a trinity?

someone already said it: there will always be 1 better statcombo.
no matter how you change it.

I’m the one who said there will always be 1 better stat combo, But that only applies to as long as there is no role mechanic.

“The trinity” is a system based on The Idea that you need 3 specific roles to do content. and that everyone must fall into these three roles.

Many games make team combat that doesn’t work on that principle.

Take a FPS game. Everyone is a DPS, but they still have roles. The long range sniper, the mid range assault the high capacity support and the short range shotgunner are all using completely different loadouts (gear stats) but none of them are required to beat the map/mission. But their options exist, and are as useful as the standard straight assault role.

Lets look at a game closer to home another MMO.

DDO a game where you could very well have a tank healer DPS trinity combo, but again you didn’t need them. Stealth teams were able to complete content without fighting a single enemy, finding secret passages, picking locks, and sneaking their way to the treasure room. Highly intelligent (stat) teams were able to complete content by using environmental traps against their foes. A pure DPS team could lay down so much firepower their enemies couldn’t reliably react or fight back, Control groups would completely shut down enemies or make them fight each other like puppets on a string. And of course there were mixed groups with a tank, a stealther, a controller and perhaps a DPS.

The point is that no one role is manditory, but they are all useful. Because the roles are useful players will gravitate to what is fun for them and will wear the loadout/stats/gear that is best for that role.

In GW2 right now we have (somewhat) roles. And while no 1 role is manditory and this is a good thing, they are not all equally useful. And so we all gear for the most useful role (berserker). This is not good for the game. We should want this to change. And no, not by nerfing berserker because berserker isn’t the problem at all.

And rework defiant to give some meaning to CCs – aside the “push boss to the wall”.

But most of all, until proper content with proper AI is released, zerk will rule regardless of buffs to conditions or support or whatever.

Which, tbh, makes me quite curios about new TA path….

Lol you need to fix the encounters.
You need encounters who push out more frequent damage in smaller packets to go against active defenses and place pressure on zerker specs.

ensoriki.5789:

Lol you need to fix the encounters.
You need encounters who push out more frequent damage in smaller packets to go against active defenses and place pressure on zerker specs.

That will just make people bringing more guardians.

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

NoTrigger.8396:

Mesket.5728:

haviz.1340:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

That’s by design, everyone is dps, support and control. Read the manifesto.

Mike O’Brien Manifesto?

is or can be. Two different things.

Currently it is by designed and everyone is everything. We agree. This is what many players don’t like and prefer to see a specialization into roles (required by content). So everyone can be everything but fit one role at a time to have more team work.

5 × 1 man army =/= 1 × 5 man army

I think they tried to make it so and failed.

“what many players dont like”

did you start a poll or something?
and i dont believe you have ever seen good guilds running dungeons or fractals. because there is already alot of teamwork.

I don’t think you can consider there is teamwork in GW2 because high lvl fractals requires it. That’s not even 1% of the game.

yes because gw2 is lacking difficult content. but that doesnt change the fact that good guilds have a lot of teamwork when running dungeons or fractals.

And finally you end up agreeing on my point. GW2 lacks the content that would require 5 players working together. The rest was suggestion for improving the roles proposed by ANet.

everyone agrees there mate. but to make that happen you dont need to nerf berserker into the ground. its all about how well you play. if you are not that good you simply use knights or pvt. as soon as you become better you will get away with berserker. thats about it.
and supporting your team and statcombos are different things.

But I never said that zerk should be nerfed, please, read my posts. All I said is that if any, other sets should be on par by improving the content. This will help the game by adding some variety and diversity. Think about market also, prices are all narrowed down to zerk gear currently.. it would be nice to see other specs valuable as well.

Where do you see that moving from one set of gear to the next is considered progression? That is something that the playerbase made up here because there is no challenge. Reducing survivability and completing things faster… that is made up challenge because the game is offering none (besides 48+)

You could always find your own challenges in the game. Other people have done it and you can too!!

Otherwise i dont see why even with more difficult content anyone would take any gear besides zerker.

Exactly what I was thinking. The more smaller attacks you give mobs, the more people will demand protection and aegis so more guardians get used.

Lokki.1092:

NoTrigger.8396:

ok so you want specific roles.
whats the difference compared to a trinity?

someone already said it: there will always be 1 better statcombo.
no matter how you change it.

In GW2 right now we have (somewhat) roles. And while no 1 role is manditory and this is a good thing, they are not all equally useful. And so we all gear for the most useful role (berserker). This is not good for the game. We should want this to change. And no, not by nerfing berserker because berserker isn’t the problem at all.

but this is exactly the design of gw2. no trinity. every profession can dps and support at the same time. and i dont think that will change. working as intended

I was wondering, what would everyone think if they ever added Profession specific gear/armor, gear that offers a Profession attribute as one of the stat boosts. For example Gear that offers Attunment Recharge Rate (for Elementalists) or Virtue Recharge Rate (for Guardians) etc
I believe these used to have far better names (I think the Elementalist attribute was called Intelligence?)

Currently, the only way to raise these profession-specific stats is to increase an appropriate traitline. Making it a gear-stat would unlock more specs/builds, at least as far as traits are concerned. While not addressing the problem with Berserker it could potentially open up new builds/options.

NoTrigger.8396:

Lokki.1092:

NoTrigger.8396:

ok so you want specific roles.
whats the difference compared to a trinity?

someone already said it: there will always be 1 better statcombo.
no matter how you change it.

In GW2 right now we have (somewhat) roles. And while no 1 role is manditory and this is a good thing, they are not all equally useful. And so we all gear for the most useful role (berserker). This is not good for the game. We should want this to change. And no, not by nerfing berserker because berserker isn’t the problem at all.

but this is exactly the design of gw2. no trinity. every profession can dps and support at the same time. and i dont think that will change. working as intended

Yes but like I said they are not all equally useful. Yes we can DPS support and control at the same time… But Why? with the exception of very specialized fights, or content it isn’t mandatory… Heck it isn’t even useful. So the gear for those Roles are also not mandatory or useful.

I do not agree that A-net intended for 17 of the 18 end game stats to be useless in general content.

I’m pretty sure they all see use in PvP/WvW, which is where they’re meant to be used.

In PvE, you just push the envelope by adding more and more damage until you’ve maxed it whereas pvp game modes require you to do more than dodge big hits and repeat damage rotations against bosses, plus since players don’t have bloated HP pools, condition damage is much better.

colesy.8490:

I’m pretty sure they all see use in PvP/WvW, which is where they’re meant to be used.

In PvE, you just push the envelope by adding more and more damage until you’ve maxed it whereas pvp game modes require you to do more than dodge big hits and repeat damage rotations against bosses, plus since players don’t have bloated HP pools, condition damage is much better.

No, sPvP only has 10 stat combinations. Not all 18. But yes there is a lot of variety there. (I’ve explained why already)

And Yes! WvW does see extensive use of the different stat combinations. This is a good thing.

Why would this be a bad thing in PvE? I don’t get why you would be against it? No need for roles but Every role is as good as the next? this means you can make multi role teams and do well, or single role teams and do well. All it would change is that 1 set isn’t the best.

maddoctor.2738:

While not addressing the problem with Berserker it could potentially open up new builds/options.

I don’t think anyone’s claiming that zerker is a problem so much as it’s currently the only stat set that anyone uses.

The problem is that, for the most part most stats are pretty useless. Only a handful, like healing power, for example, contributes to your ability to support others, and it only does so in a very weak sense.

Many of the boons don’t receive any contribution from the character’s stats. To put this another way, a character fighting naked will contribute the following boons at their full strength: Might, Protection, Aegis, fury, stability, swiftness and vigor. It makes no difference, and that’s the problem with the gear set up.

And even with gearing for the ones that do function based on stats, like Regeneration, you’re basically shooting yourself in the foot because Regeneration is a rather weak HoT in a game full of volley attacks. I very rarely die because my HP has been slowly eaten away, I die because things hit really hard and wipe out large parts of my HP bar before I can heal.

The truth is, in a lot of ways the gear stats in this game are apparently designed as if we were supposed to have a trinity within the game. But we don’t. We’re all playing, essentially, DPS roles and yet all over the game we have gear that appears to be for tanks, even though we don’t have tanks, or healers, even though we don’t have healers.

What I think we need is A) Boons redesigned so that they’re based heavily on stats, and not stats like power. more powers that offer direct heals and direct support. Most of the healing in this game tends to be personal, and there’s only a handful of abilities that actually offer healing to the group. Rather than ‘Mark of Blood’ (for example) offering regeneration, it should just pulse and heal players directly (and do so strongly), and boons like Aegis and stability should be more widely spread throughout the professions.

colesy.8490:

Exactly what I was thinking. The more smaller attacks you give mobs, the more people will demand protection and aegis so more guardians get used.

Boon removal.

Red Falcon.8257:

Mesket.5728:

Actually, I’m sorry about your wasted sarcasm because I’m all in favor of a more important role for support and boons. It’s the 5 dps and go set up that I find cheap and more appropriate for a 5 dollars indie game than a triple A MMORPG.

Sorry about your wasted wall of text. Keep reading next time, don’t quote in the middle of a thread.

Nothing wasted man, I love to read threads where PvE carebeargods come down insulting everyone and demanding their opinion is considered a fact even though it has no more validating data than the 200 opinions posted before.

I’m sorry but the reality is that most people struggle with endgame pve (aka frac 40-50 and not loldungeons) and actually need a Guardian to Prot them up, reflects, etc – so there is already a lot of use for pieces of PVT/Cavalier in that content zone.
Just FYI normal dungeons can be solo’d, including Arah; they are mid-game content not meant to need more than a 5 DPS casual team or 1 good player.

Why in the world would anyone run lvl 40 fractal? It’s the same maps with just bigger numbers, mehh. Anyhow, the real source of almost all pve inbalance issues is the lack of monster AI.

Lokki.1092:

colesy.8490:

I’m pretty sure they all see use in PvP/WvW, which is where they’re meant to be used.

In PvE, you just push the envelope by adding more and more damage until you’ve maxed it whereas pvp game modes require you to do more than dodge big hits and repeat damage rotations against bosses, plus since players don’t have bloated HP pools, condition damage is much better.

No, sPvP only has 10 stat combinations. Not all 18. But yes there is a lot of variety there. (I’ve explained why already)

And Yes! WvW does see extensive use of the different stat combinations. This is a good thing.

Why would this be a bad thing in PvE? I don’t get why you would be against it? No need for roles but Every role is as good as the next? this means you can make multi role teams and do well, or single role teams and do well. All it would change is that 1 set isn’t the best.

It’s a bad thing for PvE because it literally means just shoehorning dumb mechanics just as anti-zerker tech. If PVT bads can use “play how I want”, then so can I. Why should skillful play (surviving in zerker) be punished when I bet barely anyone even uses full glass?