Guild Wars 2

I’m new and i’m sorry to ask, but i failed to find smth exact through search. I like the game, i like jumping puzzles i already met, i like “quest” system, but will there be raids or some pve activities for more then 5 ppl whatever u call this?)
Why didn’t gw2 had it from start, i wonder? What’s the developer’s position about this? Thanks for answers and just link me to the theme if it’s not very old and have answers =) Thank you again

If you want traditional raids then find another game.

However, if you like open world single boss fights with 80+ people, then you are in for a treat.

There are no raids as they are traditionally known. There are however World Bosses that take place in the open world, but most of them are extremely easy and close to zero mechanics.

The next patch (17th September) will have one of the current World Boss ( Tequatl The Sunless ) be revamped and aimed at big groups of people looking for a challenge. Whether they want to continue revamping World Bosses as a replacement for raids, work on istanced raids or do nothing at all is not known.

Thanks a lot for answers =) I got it

Chris Whiteside mentioned that Anet is currently working on “GW2’s answer to raiding” during his talk with folks on TC ( http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1g0zqb/tc_fireside_chat_with_former_lead_producer_in_la/ )

Of course we have no time frame for it, but at least we know something is in the works.

If you haven’t done them (or reached 80 yet, for some) you’ll want to look into the zone invasions which occur randomly a few times a day, the Claw of Jormag, the Orr temple events, the Karka Queen, the Fire Shaman in Iron Marches, Guild Missions (specifically bounties, puzzles, and challenges), and look forward to the new Tequatl the Sunless fight on the 17th.

GfC.9175:

Of course we have no time frame for it, but at least we know something is in the works.

Time frame is Sept 17. Answer to raids is an update to the dragon bosses.

As another note we were told that they are working on GW2 raids with a twist… but that was almost 6 months ago and we have heard nothing about it. Not sure when or if it will happen, but it did come up at one point.

tolunart.2095:

GfC.9175:

Of course we have no time frame for it, but at least we know something is in the works.

Time frame is Sept 17. Answer to raids is an update to the dragon bosses.

I really hope not, but I can believe it.

GfC.9175:

tolunart.2095:

GfC.9175:

Of course we have no time frame for it, but at least we know something is in the works.

Time frame is Sept 17. Answer to raids is an update to the dragon bosses.

I really hope not, but I can believe it.

I didn’t watch the livestream demo, but apparently the new Teq battle is balanced around 80 players working in teams, has real consequences for failure, and even challenges Anet’s own staff and testing crew. Sounds like a raid to me.

tolunart.2095:

GfC.9175:

Of course we have no time frame for it, but at least we know something is in the works.

Time frame is Sept 17. Answer to raids is an update to the dragon bosses.

Well just one boss for now not all of them heh. It’s a bit like A/B test splitting, they will make changes gradually so they can see if it works or not, no reason to implement changes to all bosses if most players just want easy loot over challenge or interesting mechanics.

This game isnt about complicated raids but more about zerg farming and making your character look pretty with new dyes etc

The raiding in gw2 is spamming auto attacks with 50+ other people on sponge bob bosses with virtually zero failure chances. That’s gw2 raiding.

Raids as in old-school style open world raids? Or instanced raids? Probably closest thing to old-school raiding are cursed shore temples. Nice when there are 20-30 people doing it, but too easy when 100 show up to farm now – for ascended mats etc. Mel is one thing, but from doing gates of arah you open up the anchorage WP so you can then work on grenth afterwards. It’s a nice run really, if 20-30 there it can be a challenge. The other temples of Orr are worth doing too, they all take a fair amount of people to do. Unlike world boss encounters that most strong characters can solo. Dragons thus far have been more of a simple farming event as well, though jormag offers a little challenge – although I have never seen it fail.

Instanced raids, nothing like that here. Would be nice to see something like planes of power here (eq1), keyed progression. But seems like the devs are more focused on easy content for grinding and for 10yo’s heh. Lets not over-complicate things I guess.

If you are looking for instanced raids you will likely not get that here as they are not going to increase the party size.

anzenketh.3759:

If you are looking for instanced raids you will likely not get that here as they are not going to increase the party size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU

hmm? 30 is enough
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Squad

Daywolf.2630:

anzenketh.3759:

If you are looking for instanced raids you will likely not get that here as they are not going to increase the party size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU

hmm? 30 is enough
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Squad

That is open world though.

anzenketh.3759:

Daywolf.2630:

anzenketh.3759:

If you are looking for instanced raids you will likely not get that here as they are not going to increase the party size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU

hmm? 30 is enough
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Squad

That is open world though.

You’re speaking of current use, I’m referring to mechanics. The mechanics are already there, just not the usage.

In other words, to break it down, this is usually programmed/scripted from the instanced side (I’ve programmed group instances) where the instancing script attached to the trigger allows or disallows categories of people when activated. So whether you call the script to allow a party or in this case a squad, it’s handles from the instancing script. Both parties and squads are technically the same, apart from how they are categorized by name to the instance. Like in dungeons, if the script was changed to allow for a squad, then it would allow a squad to join to that instance. But since dungeons are designed for five or less in regards to content, then the instance script is recognizing parties and not squads as it was programmed to do.

Daywolf.2630:

anzenketh.3759:

Daywolf.2630:

anzenketh.3759:

If you are looking for instanced raids you will likely not get that here as they are not going to increase the party size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU

hmm? 30 is enough
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Squad

That is open world though.

You’re speaking of current use, I’m referring to mechanics. The mechanics are already there, just not the usage.

There are no mechanics in game to allow more then 5 players to enter a dungeon instance.

anzenketh.3759:

Daywolf.2630:

anzenketh.3759:

Daywolf.2630:

anzenketh.3759:

If you are looking for instanced raids you will likely not get that here as they are not going to increase the party size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy7CcwnfUdU

hmm? 30 is enough
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Squad

That is open world though.

You’re speaking of current use, I’m referring to mechanics. The mechanics are already there, just not the usage.

There are no mechanics in game to allow more then 5 players to enter a dungeon instance.

Read edit, I figured you would say that.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Ah. Guild Missions. The once-a-week guild-only zerg that takes scant minutes and only a cursory knowledge of the ‘boss’. Don’t forget you’ve gotta be in a guild to get any credit worth your while. Because the pittance you get when you’re not in that guild is kinda an insult.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Oh yes, that’s right, overlooked that guilds are recognized as a group too. So you have parties, squads and guilds.

SynfulChaot.3169:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Ah. Guild Missions. The once-a-week guild-only zerg that takes scant minutes and only a cursory knowledge of the ‘boss’. Don’t forget you’ve gotta be in a guild to get any credit worth your while. Because the pittance you get when you’re not in that guild is kinda an insult.

The only guild missions that can be zerged are Bounties, and even then if you don’t know the boss mechanics you’ll have a bad a time. Guild Challenges and Puzzles are both challenging and fun if you like do things in group, especially if you dont go running online to look for a guide to will simplify it.

Samhaim.8956:

The only guild missions that can be zerged are Bounties, and even then if you don’t know the boss mechanics you’ll have a bad a time. Guild Challenges and Puzzles are both challenging and fun if you like do things in group, especially if you dont go running online to look for a guide to will simplify it.

They are, yes. But I wouldn’t call puzzles or challenges anything akin to a ‘raid’ either. And with a sufficiently large guild, both are trivial to complete.

And if you say that what if you’re not running in a sufficiently large guild? Well, then you’d most likely not even have access to most of the guild missions as they require a pretty large active guild to amass the influence and merit needed to unlock them.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

I think a lot of people are referring to the developer comments about us receiving “raids”.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Yeah, the guild mission stuff. It’s still not entirely engaging at the moment. Honestly this idea felt like it was shoehorned in to be the equivalent of the Zaishen Challenge Quest system from GW1. Only it would be a system exclusively designed for guilds only. I can see why it was made, but in my eye’s it’s easily forgettable. It was one of those things that should have had a alliance system attached to it. However people have been utilizing makeshift alliances by resources that are outside game (like the LFG site). Hopefully with the in game LFG tool it will make it much easier to form these unofficial alliances. Especially for a few smaller guilds who were left in the cold because of this content.

Sindex.9520:

Hopefully with the in game LFG tool it will make it much easier to form these unofficial alliances. Especially for a few smaller guilds who were left in the cold because of this content.

I’m in one of those smaller guilds. Our only option was to temporarily join a large and welcoming PvE guild for the content. A guild that doesn’t mind temporary members. That’s honestly the only option for the small guilds out there.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

It’s disturbing to me that someone with the title “Game Designer” equates raiding to Guild Missions.

Oxe.6142:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

It’s disturbing to me that someone with the title “Game Designer” equates raiding to Guild Missions.

It’s also disturbing that people like you seem to lack the knowledge that Guild Missions (not all) can be difficult and need the players to comunicate… hence very close to raid encounters.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Haha, very funny -_-

Naus the Gobbo.5172:

If you want hard content that takes teamwork/skill find another game.

However, if you like shallow open world faceroll zerg content with 80+ people, then you are in for a treat.

Fixed that for you lol..

SynfulChaot.3169:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Ah. Guild Missions. The once-a-week guild-only zerg that takes scant minutes and only a cursory knowledge of the ‘boss’. Don’t forget you’ve gotta be in a guild to get any credit worth your while. Because the pittance you get when you’re not in that guild is kinda an insult.

OP did ask for any pve event which requires more than 5 people. Also yes there are problems with guild missions but i find them to be very fun especially puzzle and rush.

I also see why devs dont post here that much.

champ.7021:

OP did ask for any pve event which requires more than 5 people. Also yes there are problems with guild missions but i find them to be very fun especially puzzle and rush.

I also see why devs dont post here that much.

Oh. I love the puzzles myself. And the rushes. But guild missions have their own faults. Like insane unlock costs. And the fact that a guild large enough to unlock them is also large enough to trivialize them. And the smaller guilds for which they would be a challenge for are almost entirely gated out of them.

Also, even guild missions don’t equate to a ‘raid’. They are content for groups, yes, but they are not quite ‘raid’ material. That’s all I was calling out.

yeah no i agree with you on that. Just pointing out that guild missions sort of fit what Op was looking for.
anyways its funny that the dev posted a 2 liner as a response. Normally they do a whole paragraph on how theyre working on it.

champ.7021:

yeah no i agree with you on that. Just pointing out that guild missions sort of fit what Op was looking for.
anyways its funny that the dev posted a 2 liner as a response. Normally they do a whole paragraph on how theyre working on it.

Maybe that means there’s more in the works they can’t talk about yet?

Gotta be hopeful, ya know?

as a lover of dungeons and not much else ive gotta be hopeful as well

Daywolf.2630:

Raids as in old-school style open world raids? Or instanced raids? Probably closest thing to old-school raiding are cursed shore temples. Nice when there are 20-30 people doing it, but too easy when 100 show up to farm now – for ascended mats etc. Mel is one thing, but from doing gates of arah you open up the anchorage WP so you can then work on grenth afterwards. It’s a nice run really, if 20-30 there it can be a challenge. The other temples of Orr are worth doing too, they all take a fair amount of people to do. Unlike world boss encounters that most strong characters can solo. Dragons thus far have been more of a simple farming event as well, though jormag offers a little challenge – although I have never seen it fail.

Instanced raids, nothing like that here. Would be nice to see something like planes of power here (eq1), keyed progression. But seems like the devs are more focused on easy content for grinding and for 10yo’s heh. Lets not over-complicate things I guess.

Thank you for making the distinction between outdoor and instanced raiding.

There’s a whole new generation of MMO players who have never experienced old-school outdoor raids, and so when they use the term “raid” they usually aren’t aware there are things other than instanced raiding.

I love the old-school outdoor raids, particularly from the DAoC era when encounters could scale from 4 to 200 and feel totally different (tactics and strategy). Where with smart playing and problem solving in the moment, a rag tag group of 8 could conquer raids aimed at 50 to 100 players. /rose-colored glasses

I can understand players who enjoyed instanced raiding in other games wanting to see them included in their new game.

I’ve played EQ2, WoW and RIFT as well and don’t have as many fond memories of those instanced raids. Favorite quote from a game developer we knew at the time regarding Vanilla WoW’s MC raid instance and the requirement for gear grind/attunement: “I was in hell before my time.”

The concepts here in GW2 for outdoor raids are part of what drew us to the game. The execution and scaling still needs refinement. I’d rather see ANet work on that then adding 10- or 20-man raiding.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Bonus points for rhyming.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Ha ha ha – quote FTW!

I imagine some massive percentage of the people who want raiding added would be tremendously disappointed with any such implementation in GW2. A raid is fun the first time you beat it. Not the ten times you tried to beat it before that, and not the fifty times you fought it AFK to farm it after.

GW2 just doesn’t have the capacity to give the rewards to make WoW-style raiding viable, because WoW style raiding is about doing something not-fun and time consuming for rewards, rather than doing something fun because it’s fun.

That said, GW2 does seem to be moving towards EQ-style raiding with bosses in the persistent world (rather than instanced), minus the drama of who can steal whose kill.

And no I don’t believe any of you for a second who claim to truly enjoy WoW-style raiding. Have enough experience to know how much fun people weren’t having. You enjoyed rewards, not raiding.

There are raids my friend. They just require no tact, and no movement or thought, other than “2, 2, 2, 2, 2, dodge, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, F to revive someone… 2, 2, 2, 2, 2.”

Even WoW and SWTOR has boss mechanics and phases.

Guild Wars 2 is just like, “MOAR MOBS.”

SynfulChaot.3169:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Ah. Guild Missions. The once-a-week guild-only zerg that takes scant minutes and only a cursory knowledge of the ‘boss’.

They’re also bugged about 25% of the time. This week our trek failed (seriously) and so did the bounty, when Anders Wildman wouldn’t start the fight after we “saved” him from the Karka that ate him.

Treks seem to fail the most often, and I have no idea why that is. The coding for that couldn’t be so hard. Also we’ve had rushes fail to reward guild merits and again, why? Our puzzle failed this week too, mostly because we had no clue about Emo(tes) and who really is going to salute a picture frame?

The way Anet is going with that one, soon we’ll all be wearing eye-liner and taking self photos crying in front of a mirror just to prove that we’re all Emo(ting).

And all of this after our fairly small guild finally got all the merits and influence together to research everything. We generally like these guild missions but some of them are more than a bit stupid.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

No, no… “Raids” not zergs.

Raids like in a MMO way of saying Raids. Like having an interface to help us organize groups of people to have at least, once in a while, the illusion that the blue names spamming 1 next to me are other players and not just NPCs.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Guild missions…hardly compare to raids.

GW had areas that allowed groups of 12. I would love to see similar areas in GW2.

There’s so much possibility for teamwork and interesting mechanics with larger groups.

As Mesket said, we’re talking about organized teams, not zergs, and mechanics that are built around needing teamwork, rather than artificially scaling up from a solo-able event.

EDIT: To be blunt, Guild Missions aren’t even close to what we’re requesting. They require very little coordination and only limited teamwork. They are another example of content that ends up being a zerg.

Groups of people storming a place then leaving immediately after they’re done. GW2 has plenty of raids.

TL;DR

• 5 or 10 man instanced content.
• Gated through achievements ( can’t do x dungeon/raid until you have achievement of doing y dungeon/raid. )
• Scrap the 5 nights a week / week long cd.
• Make it 2-3 hours long. Cooldown? not needed? daily? every 3 days?
• Revolve fight mechanics around the 3 roles GW2 does have support dps and control. (read post for examples of mechanics)
• No statistical gain means all content remains relevant aka no WoW syndrome of no one doing Lichking or illidan anymore because of it being outdated content etc.

@Anet devs last time I called Colin out he responded, so lets try again…Colin you handsome son of a kitten! Personally I think GW2 is in such a unique position in that after ascended rolls out there will be no more statistical gain with that in mind there will never be an issue with power creep making fights trivial. Do you agree?

Now the next hurdle, we have never really had a combat system like this where in raid encounters normally revolved around tanks healers and dps we don’t have that. However I can envision say a 10 man raid within an instance where encounters are revolved around crowd control, and support. Heres some examples.

Say the boss gains massive damage buff if a mob reaches him upon spawning on the outside of the encounter area…it takes 10 seconds to walk to the boss but after 20 seconds the mob will explode prematurely NOT granting said buff to the boss…ergo CC is required that control role that gw2 is useful. Similarly say there is a 2 second casted attack the boss does that can be interupted if the cast is successful its a wipe he’ll mc wreck peoples day. But said boss still has defiant stacks….so its up the communcation of raid to raid manage said defiant stacks and ensure they are able to CC him when needed. Further use of CC in a raid like encounter.

Lets take a look at a supporty mechanic. AoE condi cleanse is an example of support…Perhaps this boss has a debuff/condition that he puts on the entire raid, it ticks 300% of your maximum health over 10 seconds or something like that ergo…stack up and aoe condi clear….

Another positive for raids….without that gear treadmill no one can use the excuse that you need raid gear to raid and you need to raid to get said raid gear…the only thing holding back people will be skill. Class balance will come into it aka stacking ele’s for superior aoe condi clear or something but lets ignore that for now. Theres nothing stopping 100% of the playerbase from doing it outside of time constraints….

With time constraints in mind lets tweak the common concept of raiding….what if said instanced raid wasnt some 5 nights a week slugfest on a week long cd? What if it was approx 2-3 hours…say 4-6 bosses…some mobs prior to the boss to give a indication of mechanics you may see in the boss fight.

Last point…while I personally want to see 10 man raids, and I beg you to add them…theres nothing stopping you from keeping it at 5 man…so essentially these " raids " are like dungeons with specifically tailored hard fights…but people like progression …. why not add say 3 new dungeons. You can’t do “z” dungeon til you have completed “y” dungeon, which you can’t do til you have completed “x” dungeon.

How to gate this? Through achievements you have already used an achievement gating system with scarlets playhouse….can’t do the dungeon til you have complete “x” achievement.

Whats everyones thoughts on this? permanent content that provides progress with no statistical gain the only thing stopping someone from doing this is 2-3 hours or skill….provides prestige to said skilled players and as for rewards…well thats something to be discussed in further detail but opinions? thoughts?

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

What people are usually addressing through the use of the term ‘raid’ is scaling difficulty in terms of challenge. The player base, in an MMO today, is diverse to the extreme, and you have people of varying levels of skill and desire for challenge.

Given this, what are the implications for game design. Ideally, one would think, the game should be designed to meet the skills and desires for challenge of a disparate player base.

A useful thought experiment here is what will be the likely result of monsters ‘raiding’ players of relatively low skill and desire for challenge in open world PvE? These are the players you find in the open world. Open world PvE should be designed for the players you find there. Challenge should be available to those who desire it in instances of tiered difficulty. This way you avoid the design element known as the open world failure fest, and you meet the needs of a diverse player base.

cesmode.4257:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

In Guild Wars 2, the monsters raid you.

Also, check out Guild Missions

Guild missions…hardly compare to raids.

Agreed. The bountys especially, which are still largely luck based, rather than purely skill based at this time.

I do like the Guild Treks though. Those are fun!!