Guild Wars 2

Not posting in the ele forum because it affects everyone.

The ice bow 4 overshadows every other AoE skill in the game. This isn’t even the “damage” conjure. It’s the one that grants bonus healing power. -_-

If you’re trying to add more diversity to the meta, especially PvE, you have to actually balance the game. One profession can’t be far and above all the others in damage.

The 4 should be totally replaced with a heal. This is the water weapon, not the fire weapon.

Fire Axe should be better somehow. Never seen anyone bring it to a serious group. I don’t even know what it does but it obviously sucks.

Their reasoning in the livestream as to why they didn’t nerf it, and did instead buff it, was because they didn’t want it to become an obsolete skill like many others (as far as I can remember).

Remember, the Ice Bow also gives condition duration which contributes to outgoing damage, so it is, in part, also intended to be a damaging weapon.

So what you’re saying is that ALL water based skills should be heals and that any player that wants to use water for damage can take their fun and shove it.

Zalladi.4652:

Their reasoning in the livestream as to why they didn’t nerf it, and did instead buff it, was because they didn’t want it to become an obsolete skill like many others (as far as I can remember).

Remember, the Ice Bow also gives condition duration which contributes to outgoing damage, so it is, in part, also intended to be a damaging weapon.

I did see that reasoning. They wanted people to use the other skills instead of casting 4 and then dropping the bow.

However, that doesn’t fix the real issue which is that skill 4 is horribly overpowered.

That they don’t want this skill to become obsolete is such a bad argument. This skill hurts build diversity more than any other. If it wasn’t used at all, we’d gain build diversity because the other skills that people start using instead are more balanced so we’d see those skills competing over the utility slot instead of one skill dominating like the ice bow does.

Xcorpdog.2840:

So what you’re saying is that ALL water based skills should be heals and that any player that wants to use water for damage can take their fun and shove it.

No I’m saying that a water skill shouldn’t be far and away the best damage skill in the entire game.

Water already has decent damage skills besides ice bow and I’m not saying those should be nerfed.

And what if I don’t want to use Ice Bow? Oh wait I have to because it’s that overpowered.

I really don’t understand why they have left ice bow as it is for so long. When I first saw people using it, I thought it was a bug. It needs toned down.

because someone made a song about it

Khristophoros.7194:

And what if I don’t want to use Ice Bow? Oh wait I have to because it’s that overpowered.

You don’t have to; the most recent June patch especially introduced a plethora of new build variations for each class (of course, as to whether players explore those is up to them, but they are out there) including one insane elementalist build from WoodenPotatoes which does not include the Ice Bow.

I regularly run without Ice Bow in order to help with blasting fire fields for might on World Bosses. Or for being part of a condi team for the Triple Trouble. Or for more support in WvW smaller groups.

You don’t have to equip it. It is your perception for the lack of build variations that makes you think you have to.

As I understand OP, you would like the ice bow, specifically #4 skill, to have reduced damage and added healing, and for the other conjured weapons to receive a buff accordingly. Ice bow to apply chill, vulnerability, freeze, and a group aoe heal. As long as flame axe were buffed to be stronger than my normal weapon set, I would be ok with a change.

Still waiting for my omgwtfbbq game-changing ele elite.

I would at least swap the #4 functionally with something from the fire axe and put in something more support-y instead. Give each weapon a more clear focus.

I used to run the Conjured Earth shield on a rabid build with strong bleeding and with burn on crit… now that build is dead because you have to choose conjurer or burn on crits…

When I would summon it, someone picking it up would inevitably say, “what is this thing? Is this new?” That’s how popular conjured shield is.

Khristophoros.7194:

Not posting in the ele forum because it affects everyone.

The ice bow 4 overshadows every other AoE skill in the game. This isn’t even the “damage” conjure. It’s the one that grants bonus healing power. -_-

If you’re trying to add more diversity to the meta, especially PvE, you have to actually balance the game. One profession can’t be far and above all the others in damage.

The 4 should be totally replaced with a heal. This is the water weapon, not the fire weapon.

Fire Axe should be better somehow. Never seen anyone bring it to a serious group. I don’t even know what it does but it obviously sucks.

I used to use Ice Bow, but since rumours of it’s imminent nerfing, I switched to Fire Axe, and yeah, Fire Axe could used a slight buffing, like 10% extra dmg would be nice. I merely use it to stack burning.

But don’t worry, when the PvP people start complaining again, it will be “Nerf Incoming”.

misterdevious.6482:

I used to run the Conjured Earth shield on a rabid build with strong bleeding and with burn on crit… now that build is dead because you have to choose conjurer or burn on crits…

When I would summon it, someone picking it up would inevitably say, “what is this thing? Is this new?” That’s how popular conjured shield is.

I saw somebody use it the other day. I picked it up but it didn’t seem particularly effective except the invuln shield was nice.

Khristophoros.7194:

Not posting in the ele forum because it affects everyone.

The ice bow 4 overshadows every other AoE skill in the game. This isn’t even the “damage” conjure. It’s the one that grants bonus healing power. -_-

If you’re trying to add more diversity to the meta, especially PvE, you have to actually balance the game. One profession can’t be far and above all the others in damage.

The 4 should be totally replaced with a heal. This is the water weapon, not the fire weapon.

Fire Axe should be better somehow. Never seen anyone bring it to a serious group. I don’t even know what it does but it obviously sucks.

Icebow is the only ele conjure worth conjuring. If they nerf it so it do less damage than meteor then all ele conjure will be useless.

Xillllix.3485:

Khristophoros.7194:

Not posting in the ele forum because it affects everyone.

The ice bow 4 overshadows every other AoE skill in the game. This isn’t even the “damage” conjure. It’s the one that grants bonus healing power. -_-

If you’re trying to add more diversity to the meta, especially PvE, you have to actually balance the game. One profession can’t be far and above all the others in damage.

The 4 should be totally replaced with a heal. This is the water weapon, not the fire weapon.

Fire Axe should be better somehow. Never seen anyone bring it to a serious group. I don’t even know what it does but it obviously sucks.

Icebow is the only ele conjure worth conjuring. If they nerf it so it do less damage than meteor then all ele conjure will be useless.

Don’t worry, it will be “nerf incoming” soon for Bow 4. You just see. ANET hates Elementalist, they sure will nerf it soon or after HoT.

Zalladi.4652:

Their reasoning in the livestream as to why they didn’t nerf it, and did instead buff it, was because they didn’t want it to become an obsolete skill like many others (as far as I can remember).

Too bad that reasoning wasn’t also applied to Thief’s P/P Ricochet trait.

I don’t understand why they don’t tone it down a bit. Skill 4 is super strong and skill 5, too. Bring either a mesmer (—> power lock) or thief (pistol 4) to remove boss stacks then use deep freeze. Lol, it’s so super OP it’s ridiculous. And the alleged argument to not nerf it is nonsense; no one uses flame axe or the earth shield. Or a ton of other skills of various professions.

SirDrygan.1823:

Don’t worry, it will be “nerf incoming” soon for Bow 4. You just see. ANET hates Elementalist, they sure will nerf it soon or after HoT.

Yeah they hate it… exactly. That’s why Ele is the best, versatile class in every single aspect of the game?

ProtoGunner.4953:

I don’t understand why they don’t tone it down a bit. Skill 4 is super strong and skill 5, too. Bring either a mesmer (—> power lock) or thief (pistol 4) to remove boss stacks then use deep freeze. Lol, it’s so super OP it’s ridiculous. And the alleged argument to not nerf it is nonsense; no one uses flame axe or the earth shield. Or a ton of other skills of various professions.

I used flame axe. and I have seen people using Earth shield. but it is rare to find people NOT using Frost bow.

The earth shield is a purely defensive weapon and can pretty much only be used to tank Mai Trin when standing in the electro-field. At least that’s the only place where I use it. Flame axe is even more useless than earth shield since there isn’t a single fight where it brings something useful. Lightning hammer is nice for the extra precision and ferocity, but apart from skill 1 it doesn’t have any decent attack-skills to complement those stats.

Ice bow pretty much is the only conjure worth a utility slot since damage is always useful and the freeze is the best cc you can achieve. Remove the freeze’s usefulnes with upcoming defiance bars (there are other more spammable ccs with less risk to reduce a bar) and the 4 will be the only truly strong skill on ice bow. And it’ll compete with meteor shower, glyph of storms and probably some new tempest skills.

The problem is AoE damage abilities are trumping single target abilities in this case, and massively at that. I’d much rather them tone down MS/IB4 than make them redundant, they should really come in line or slightly higher than regular DPS rotations rather than be pointlessly strong in every situation.

Unfortunately the balancing team thinks that buffing the problem is a solution.

Ice storm is good, but it only shines when fighting large enemies who are relatively stationary and invulnerability free. Quite frequently, I’ll drop the ice storm only to have the enemy walk right out of it, doing very little damage overall. So, it is more of a “best in particular situations” weapon than anything else.

Khristophoros.7194:

Not posting in the ele forum because it affects everyone.

The ice bow 4 overshadows every other AoE skill in the game. This isn’t even the “damage” conjure. It’s the one that grants bonus healing power. -_-

If you’re trying to add more diversity to the meta, especially PvE, you have to actually balance the game. One profession can’t be far and above all the others in damage.

The 4 should be totally replaced with a heal. This is the water weapon, not the fire weapon.

Fire Axe should be better somehow. Never seen anyone bring it to a serious group. I don’t even know what it does but it obviously sucks.

kitten

Lets speculate about what skills and trait produce the most damage in a PvE group.

So warrior has this trait called phalanx strength and banners, producing somewhere around 20-50% of a groups damage. That sounds completely over powered, except that they do so only in conjunction with other players skills and ability. This result in party composition where a single warrior often is the best strategy.

Thieves have the highest single target dps, and is frequently used for that purpose in some specific dungeons. They also provide party stealth which allows a lot of PvE content to be skipped, providing a infinitive amount of dps in those contexts. All of that is offset by limited AoE dps, thus you rarely see more than a single thieve in a party.

Guardians brings reflects which negates aspects of the game, allowing groups to survive or skip content which otherwise would create a challenge. The biggest dps ever recorded has been done with reflecting and has been describe by some as an exploit. You normally only bring a single guardian to a group for the purpose of this utility.

Ele brings a lot of base AoE dps, were lava font and pure damage increase traits are the primary sources. Ice bow 4 and metorshower contributes to that damage and the combination is what makes PvE eles a great source for base damage. As such, when you got the necessary amount of the above professions, you can fill the rest of the party with ele’s and beat more or less any content.

Mesmers used to be useful in dungeons, but anet patched out uses of portals which then created the thieve skip meta. Rangers has never really found a niche, and engineers can work as a cross between ele and thieves. Condi necro do not get any synergy with warriors, and power necro don’t do enough damage compared to ele.

So in the grand scale of things, where does ice bow 4# come into this? Would nerfing ice bow 4# allow for different party compositions, different uses of other professions in PvE, or prevent exploits and skips?

Wanze.8410:

because someone made a song about it

And what a song!

Why would you want to nerf the only conjured weapon that’s actually worth using anymore? O_o

I’d rather they buffed the other ones and made them more viable.

Also, ele doesn’t need more group heals. They already get plenty of that with water attunement. No class will ever use a weapon that’s dedicated solely for healing anyway because it isn’t important enough in the current game meta. Maximizing damage is the current meta which is why Ice Bow, the only conjure weapon with decent burst damage right now, also happens to be the only conjured weapon currently being used.

Just look at what happened to FGS after its damage was nerfed, and you can easily foretell the fate of Ice Bow if the same were to happen to it. I can assure you that if they replace the damage of ice storm with a healing function, it will literally be dropped faster than a recently filled nappy. You will simply never see it being used for that kind of function, for the exact same reason you never see guardians bother to use Bow of Truth. No-one is going to take up a spot on their utility bar just for a bit of burst healing, unless the game meta itself changed drastically.

So basically, the awnser for better usage of other skills, is invalidate the current one? Nice joke bro!

Short answer, it isn’t a Necro skill so they didn’t nerf it.

The underlying problem with Frost Bow is that it is validating the Conjure category almost on its own. Once, long ago, and possibly now in some niche roles, the Lightning Hammer would be conjured. Not so much now. Earth Shield? Hah! Lava Axe? Shadap! Bring Frost Bow #4 into line? RIP conjures.

Why has it taken this long for ANet to publicly aknowledge (then backtrack) on the frost bow? Well, track record. It took them 2 years to fix FGS. It wasn’t (just) imbalanced, it was demonstrably broken.

Why will Frost Bow be much longer to fix it? Much like FGS, trying to fix the bow has exposed underlying weaknesses inherent in the conjure category. The thing needs more than a few tweaks to damage/projectile count, almost every skill on it would probably need to be looked at to compensate. Then this opens the can of worms labelled “What about the rest of the conjures that almost nobody uses?”. Bam! 4x the work. Cue someone in management at ANet shaking their head and shuffling this to the bottom of the pile.

dace.8019:

The underlying problem with Frost Bow is that it is validating the Conjure category almost on its own. Once, long ago, and possibly now in some niche roles, the Lightning Hammer would be conjured. Not so much now. Earth Shield? Hah! Lava Axe? Shadap! Bring Frost Bow #4 into line? RIP conjures.

Why has it taken this long for ANet to publicly aknowledge (then backtrack) on the frost bow? Well, track record. It took them 2 years to fix FGS. It wasn’t (just) imbalanced, it was demonstrably broken.

Why will Frost Bow be much longer to fix it? Much like FGS, trying to fix the bow has exposed underlying weaknesses inherent in the conjure category. The thing needs more than a few tweaks to damage/projectile count, almost every skill on it would probably need to be looked at to compensate. Then this opens the can of worms labelled “What about the rest of the conjures that almost nobody uses?”. Bam! 4x the work. Cue someone in management at ANet shaking their head and shuffling this to the bottom of the pile.

I think the biggest problem with conjures is that you simply cannot build around them. That mostly comes down to what amounts to practically nonexistent trait synergy with conjured weapons. Aside from being able to increase the amount of charges, there are literally no traits that benefit conjures directly at all.

When you summon a conjured weapon, you are basically giving up a lot of versatility and gaining practically nothing for it. The only reason frost bow is used at all is because you can pop it, fire ice storm and then drop it just as fast, so you can go back to your regular skills. The only reason FGS was used back in the day was because its sheer, ludicrous damage numbers were enough to offset the disadvantages of holding a conjured weapon.

What surprises me the most in all this, however, is that ANet had the opportunity to fix this situation and add more traits that synergised with conjures when they replaced the old trait system with specializations. I’m rather surprised they didn’t capitalize on that opportunity and chose to leave conjures in their currently broken state.

dace.8019:

The underlying problem with Frost Bow is that it is validating the Conjure category almost on its own. Once, long ago, and possibly now in some niche roles, the Lightning Hammer would be conjured. Not so much now. Earth Shield? Hah! Lava Axe? Shadap! Bring Frost Bow #4 into line? RIP conjures.

Why has it taken this long for ANet to publicly aknowledge (then backtrack) on the frost bow? Well, track record. It took them 2 years to fix FGS. It wasn’t (just) imbalanced, it was demonstrably broken.

Why will Frost Bow be much longer to fix it? Much like FGS, trying to fix the bow has exposed underlying weaknesses inherent in the conjure category. The thing needs more than a few tweaks to damage/projectile count, almost every skill on it would probably need to be looked at to compensate. Then this opens the can of worms labelled “What about the rest of the conjures that almost nobody uses?”. Bam! 4x the work. Cue someone in management at ANet shaking their head and shuffling this to the bottom of the pile.

Sorry, but if you really see things into this way, you surely don’t know how to play elementalist.

I agree that Ice Bow is the most used, mainly on group dungeons due to its fast burst damage. But calling that none of the other weapons are used, or have uses? Guys, there’s a lot more content into the game than just dungeons, and anet don’t need to patch everything into one unique gameplay aspect. No matter how thye “Balance”, there will ALWAYS have some particular skill that are better than other, and thus will be more viable and always chosen.

As a ele main, I say to you that I still run Lightining hammer on solo battles A LOT, due to his nice dps and stuns. I still Use earth Shield every time I get mai trin, because the Earth shield #4 has a inciridble powerful invulnerable effeect that allows me tank mai into the aoe area to rip their stacks off. I also use FGS very regularly on open pve (Mainly for movment, I admit), only fire axe that I never tried to be honest.

So coming here saying “Ice bow need nerf to give more usability to other conjures” is just very overseen.

There are a lot of types of game content out there, its not only based on dungeons. And even if you nerf Ice bow (What would be very unfair), it would just make another meta skill in its place, not variability.

MauricioCezar.2673:

There are a lot of types of game content out there, its not only based on dungeons. And even if you nerf Ice bow (What would be very unfair), it would just make another meta skill in its place, not variability.

It would help other professions see more use in dungeons. I mean isn’t the optimal dungeon comp using 2 eles? Hard to compete with a guy who can drop 2 ice bows.

So I guess yeah the thread is really about dungeon balance. But dungeon balance matters.

SirDrygan.1823:

Don’t worry, it will be “nerf incoming” soon for Bow 4. You just see. ANET hates Elementalist, they sure will nerf it soon or after HoT. /s

FTFY

Let’s be real. Ele is the chosen, always toptier profession in the game. Because of that so many people are playing it, Anet can’t even start balancing it without a big backlash.

Meanwhile Ranger, Necro and Engineer suffer in a corner.

Khristophoros.7194:

MauricioCezar.2673:

There are a lot of types of game content out there, its not only based on dungeons. And even if you nerf Ice bow (What would be very unfair), it would just make another meta skill in its place, not variability.

It would help other professions see more use in dungeons. I mean isn’t the optimal dungeon comp using 2 eles? Hard to compete with a guy who can drop 2 ice bows.

So I guess yeah the thread is really about dungeon balance. But dungeon balance matters.

I agree with you, and would love to see some ranger/necro love/usability for dungeons.

But invalidating a sort of gameplay will not bring love to others. I’d rather see a big buff to pets, making a good usage to then, or givin necros power forms + slow application.

MauricioCezar.2673:

dace.8019:

The underlying problem with Frost Bow is that it is validating the Conjure category almost on its own. Once, long ago, and possibly now in some niche roles, the Lightning Hammer would be conjured. Not so much now. Earth Shield? Hah! Lava Axe? Shadap! Bring Frost Bow #4 into line? RIP conjures.

Why has it taken this long for ANet to publicly aknowledge (then backtrack) on the frost bow? Well, track record. It took them 2 years to fix FGS. It wasn’t (just) imbalanced, it was demonstrably broken.

Why will Frost Bow be much longer to fix it? Much like FGS, trying to fix the bow has exposed underlying weaknesses inherent in the conjure category. The thing needs more than a few tweaks to damage/projectile count, almost every skill on it would probably need to be looked at to compensate. Then this opens the can of worms labelled “What about the rest of the conjures that almost nobody uses?”. Bam! 4x the work. Cue someone in management at ANet shaking their head and shuffling this to the bottom of the pile.

Sorry, but if you really see things into this way, you surely don’t know how to play elementalist.

I agree that Ice Bow is the most used, mainly on group dungeons due to its fast burst damage. But calling that none of the other weapons are used, or have uses? Guys, there’s a lot more content into the game than just dungeons, and anet don’t need to patch everything into one unique gameplay aspect. No matter how thye “Balance”, there will ALWAYS have some particular skill that are better than other, and thus will be more viable and always chosen.

As a ele main, I say to you that I still run Lightining hammer on solo battles A LOT, due to his nice dps and stuns. I still Use earth Shield every time I get mai trin, because the Earth shield #4 has a inciridble powerful invulnerable effeect that allows me tank mai into the aoe area to rip their stacks off. I also use FGS very regularly on open pve (Mainly for movment, I admit), only fire axe that I never tried to be honest.

So coming here saying “Ice bow need nerf to give more usability to other conjures” is just very overseen.

There are a lot of types of game content out there, its not only based on dungeons. And even if you nerf Ice bow (What would be very unfair), it would just make another meta skill in its place, not variability.

Ye i see how exp. you are. The invuln skill on earth shield is #5. Nevertheless skill #4 is also great as a pull if u have no guard or mesmer. And using earthshield for Mai Trin is an horrible decision.

Typo ^^

And use #5 on mai makes me rip her stacks faster than aything else, since I tank her in the spot without need to move away. Of course, vapor form also works, but cd’s.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Typo ^^

And use #5 on mai makes me rip her stacks faster than aything else, since I tank her in the spot without need to move away. Of course, vapor form also works, but cd’s.

For what do you need to tank? Stay close to her untill elctric field comes then go range (while she is doing melee attack) and block her teleporting shot she will stay in the whole aoe without any tanking needed.

the damage is to compensate for ele tough and vit which is the lowest of all prof..so its fair…

What would happen if conjures had their CDs tied to attunement? Like For icebow you could switch to icebow OR water and it’d make the other go on CD. But OTOH conjures would be more freely available. Kind of like engis kits but w/ the attunement CDs. Obviously further balancing would need to be done afterward.

I’m honestly not sure if itd be worse or OP tbh.

PS this isn’t a suggestion to immediately fix everything. The problem is that if they nerf icebow then it becomes like the rest of the conjures, basically NEVER used. Instead the suggestion is to make it so that they can be put into a better position to balance them.

Once upon a time, the fiery weapon was the damage weapon of choice…

Their code for nerfing looks something like this:

if (necro)
nerf = yes
else
nerf = no

Unless Frostbow is nerfed heavily, there really is no reason to bring any other class, since Ele does it better than anyone. Imo, make it unable to crit. Fixed.

As a long time ele main, I completely understand why people want a nerf, and I’m surprised that it hasn’t happened. All I want to say is that if ice bow 4 does get nerfed, I’d like to have some buffs for the other bow skills rather than just dropping ice bow from play.

“OMG! People are killing other people with this skill!!!!!!!” was a lousy reason for a nerf.

Ice Bow 4 should be nerfed, honestly. It shouldn’t be nerfed so much that it is lower DPS than standard Elementalist rotations, but it should be nerfed enough so that it isn’t by and away the highest burst AOE DPS skill in the game.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Unless Frostbow is nerfed heavily, there really is no reason to bring any other class, since Ele does it better than anyone. Imo, make it unable to crit. Fixed.

Even if you nerf icebow there is still no reason to bring other class lol.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

I think the biggest problem with conjures is that you simply cannot build around them. That mostly comes down to what amounts to practically nonexistent trait synergy with conjured weapons. Aside from being able to increase the amount of charges, there are literally no traits that benefit conjures directly at all. (and other worthwhile points)

This is what falls into the “can of worms” I mentioned. While ANet have stated a reason for not nerfing frost bow, I can’t help but wonder if there was much more to it. Namely: will nerfing frost bow render this category of skills almost useless? I think the reality of answering that question is what has, or may yet, hinder a re-work of the frost bow. It reminds me of the Guardian’s Spirit Weapons in many regards.

MauricioCezar.2673:

Sorry, but if you really see things into this way, you surely don’t know how to play elementalist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

MauricioCezar.2673:

I agree that Ice Bow is the most used, mainly on group dungeons due to its fast burst damage. But calling that none of the other weapons are used, or have uses? Guys, there’s a lot more content into the game than just dungeons, and anet don’t need to patch everything into one unique gameplay aspect. No matter how thye “Balance”, there will ALWAYS have some particular skill that are better than other, and thus will be more viable and always chosen.

Except you’re the one bringing up dungeons. LH is niche, verging on situational, sure. I gave it a bit of a pass. The other two? You can think up specific uses, sure. And they may serve you well (or you might think they do, at least). I don’t doubt they will shine in some rare, specific circumstances. But let’s get down to thinking about giving them a place on our bars regularly.

How often do I see them in dungeons? Never. Fractals? Never. Open world (DT, SW, Southsun, etc.)? Almost never. I sometimes see them spawned by people levelling. Never by anyone with an AP upwards of 1,000. PvP? Rarely. WvW? Rarely. These are my own observations, but I play Ele a lot, and my experience of these conjures is seemingly shared by, in my view, the majority of Ele players who vote by placing skills on their bars.

MauricioCezar.2673:

So coming here saying “Ice bow need nerf to give more usability to other conjures” is just very overseen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

In case it’s unintentional, my opinion isn’t that FB needs a nerf to make the other conjures more interesting. It’s that the current conjures need to be fundamentally re-worked regardless. Nerfing FB only serves to bring attention to this maligned category of skills.

Someone else has mentioned a sentiment expressed often “why the heck is a Healing/Condition conjure (one of) the most powerful aoe direct damage spike in the game?”. Surely the LH or the LA deserve that, if any conjure must have it?

I don’t see a problem with Ice Bow. It allows the elementalist a way of gifting another profession who may not have the best of aoe the usage of ice storm and a few other abilities. I think it’s a unique way of supporting your party, and nerfing it because it is effective is just silly. It’s not OP, this is the elementalist we are talking about, that has the lowest base hp in the game. It’s designed to be able to nuke targets.

Rivindor.7258:

I don’t see a problem with Ice Bow. It allows the elementalist a way of gifting another profession who may not have the best of aoe the usage of ice storm and a few other abilities. I think it’s a unique way of supporting your party, and nerfing it because it is effective is just silly. It’s not OP, this is the elementalist we are talking about, that has the lowest base hp in the game. It’s designed to be able to nuke targets.

The “low hp” argument is a bit wonky for PvE though, since raw hp don’t save you for long. How do you weigh a 2s evade/invul vs. 20s Aegis vs. Death Shroud hp?
And even if somewhat justified, the exact numbers have to be right too. If ele has half the effective hp of another class, why should they have more than double the damage?

If something is way more effective than all other options that does justify a nerf, and if the class providing said “OP” skill still has very potent alternatives there is no need for “compensation” if/when that skill is nerfed.

How much of that applies to the concrete case of ice bow 4 on elementalists is up to debate, in my eyes it needs toning down a bit, but so do extreme cases of projectile reflection, phalanx and similar solo 25might providers, and possibly some ways of shutting down enemies (pulsing AoE blind etc., basically anywhere a single properly placed skillcast achieves more than a “decent” group without such a skill)