Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.
Resident smug Englishman on the NA servers, just because.
Almost every single traitline got buffed like mad and some very niche, pointless and poor builds got changed around. I don’t see a problem. Most people I’ve talked to love the specialisation system, after adjusting their various builds to fit with it.
The UI was a little confusing to me at first, but once I got past that it was just a matter of reading the traits (and actually seeing the icons. They’re a little too small imo – even with bigger UI). I’m actually enjoying finding new builds to play, and picking up my old mes shatter build with this new spec system has been heaps of fun!
Sure ricochet was removed. Games change. Anet have that right. So what you do is you adapt your build and move on.
48 Characters|Necro|Raider|Fractaller|PvPer|Singer
So long Treeface.
“…Kormir? I know not of whom you speak.”
I have 5 lvl 80’s.. every single one of them got more powerful and more capable thanks to the new system with only minor tweaks to their builds..
I have seen nothing bad about these changes at all
in fact all I’ve seen is people complaining that their standard Meta builds are different and that they can’t be bothered nor want to change them..
Frankly this new system brings soo much more build diversity than the old one ever did and that is one of the best things about it
no more trait restrictions because of worthless stats.. and more diverse builds overall with people no longer needing to feel like that have to play the Meta way to get anywhere
they can play exactly how they want now more than ever
None of my toons were nerfed once i played with the options. My warrior is prob on par, but thief and guardian heavily buffed. My ele slightly so, although perhaps more due to condition changes.
The new elites should really make for some tough options to choose from imo, which is a good thing.
it really doesn’t bring more diversity it takes away from it. we a trapped in certain builds now not fun. i’m not interested in making new ascended armor for my 5 level 80 builds plus weapons. i like the fact the trait line isn’t built on vitality and things like that, that’s a positive.i like being able to " play my way", not being forced to change everything i have done so far. it takes a month to build new armor of at least 400 gold. that’s where i draw the line. yes Anet has the option to change things but killing the game is sad. once again their comments to get us to buy guild wars 2 are just that a comment not a fact. they have made 2 major game killers in the past month are they trying to kill it off, or they really think the community is that stupid. yes we have those die hard go Anet fans whom try to justify everything they do, but you also have the loyal fans whom are quitting due to the bad choices they are making . they make tons of money daily by we the community throwing cash at the tp for gold or gems, so they should at least respond quickly when the community has a problem with what they are doing instead all we get is other players justifying them, and silence from them hmmmm makes me think if its worth it or not.
My opinion is there’s pros and cons to this new system, if only they could find some middle ground between the old and new systems….
You know like letting us take 2 Majors if we want instead of being stuck with a grand master trait if we don’t really like the effects of them for that trait line. Perhaps those grand masters just need more looking at. O.O
Yet there are also some improvements to this system (engi perma stability need I say anymore!?)
Since when did this business of being a hero become being a business?
Meh, diversity is overrated. Just give me ‘functional’. Only gonna run optimized builds anyway, this update makes that process a lot simpler and more effective.
I agree with OP. For me new trait system is butchery to diversity and it’s actually not even building anymore but loading predefined skill/trait sets. You know, templates.
At this point I don’t think they are going to change anything or revoke old system. We have to accept state of things and pretend there is diversity in this game.
To the OP – a friendly advice. Don’t get emotional about this game. It’s fast road to disappointment and/or burning out. Players have no control over developement process so why should we care about changes when they are implemented. Nothing is going to change anyway.
In my opinion, the diversity has vastly grown. The issue right now are bugs and certain things we were informed would be baselins, that did not make it in, taking value away from specific weapon sets and utilities.
One thing I notice, is that complaints, as those of the OP, all seem to be nonspecific, and avoid hashing out any specifics, with what they feel are actual problems.
2 points into a line is nearly meaningless unless the line it self had a trait that was very much out of places for its effect. I mean by all means being OP is great and all for that 2 points chose but not every one wanted to build the same way over and over.
Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA
There WILL be another traitline added in time which will increase the diversity further yet. As well with said lines delinked from attributes more can be added in the long term.
I like the changes. There are certainly balance issues and will be a time of readjustment but overall they are positive.
That being said, I’d take 27 possible trait lines per category where all of them provide reasonable benefits instead of the option to spec partially into one trait line in order to get one thing I like.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
I think the new system is far superior. I have more build options now, not less. Yes I have less trait flexibility, but overall build flexibility is far better.
I also think the trait change was for balancing as well, and do not see that being reverted. I have now started using skills I never did before, as well as continuing to make use of the old faithful skills I used to use. That to me is a good sign that things are better.
People need to stop worrying about losing flexibility in just one part of the build system, and focus more on how the these changes have improved the build system in its entirity. For me, I now have more diversity than I used to. There are still some things I find not so useful, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.
Simplicity is complex.
Good feedback is key to getting the developers to listen to you.
Diversity? Who ever stated on the above post that the specialization system has more diversity than the Trait Points System… Doesn’t know what diversity means.
And I am specific with my “complain”. I had diversity, to built optimal or non optimal chracters. That’s the fun of the game to have as much free options possible. You wanna optimize your built… Feel free. You wanna built it like a brick… Feel free. We had that and the just replaced it with a TEMPLATE! Templates offer minimal diversity.
Killing fun skills, redusing customization etc… YES it kills the game slowly.
Can we do anything about it… YES we wait for another year hopefully for the new korean games to hit europe.
Do we need to wait for the korean games… NOT if the developers could ajust their hearing a bit to the consumer voice. Because afterall GW2 it is a great game but is start to fall. I will hate to quit playing it becaue of failed upgrades after 3 years!
Being locked into a few specializations seems workable, but I’d still like to see the trait tiers be flexible enough to hold a trait from its own tier or a lower tier.
For example if you had selected a certain specialization and really like two of the Master traits and didn’t really care for any of the Grandmaster traits, you should be able to put one of the Master traits into the Grandmaster slot.
(Slightly off topic, the Elite skill slot should likewise be able to hold a normal Utility skill if the player wants to do that.)
This streamlining allows them to move forward now. Instead of struggling to inch forward with the jumble of (mostly) useless skills we had before. I play Necro, and NO nerf is greater than the one to Consume Conditions, and what I have done is constantly tweak my build until it no longer matters. Almost there now. Discovering something new that works for you is where the fun lies.
I wonder how many people have thought about the future as they introduce more specialization lines, particularly elite specializations.
This is a preparatory step to the new advancement. That and masteries.
Elite specializations could have been introduced with old trait distribution system. However they decided to reinvent the wheel again. And elite specs won’t be additional lines but replacing one of core lines in the build so the only question to take elite spec will be “is it better than X”. So much diversity.
Specialization improved the game majorly. Removing stats from traits is probably the biggest improvement for the game so far. It actually increase diversity more so than than it hurt it.
The original system had too many pointless build. This system has less but more decent builds so far anyways.
A lot of people say diversity was killed and that is technically true IF you believe
I came back after being away for awhile. Many of my favorite builds cannot easily be restored, for all the reasons folks are listing:
I can no longer pick 2 master traits from the same line, so my ranger can no longer take both Two Handed Training and Natural Healing.
I can no longer dip into a 4th trait line, so my mesmer can no longer take both Empowered Illusions and Illusionary Defense.
How about an Advanced Build button that lets us break these restrictions, and get back our old build? What does that bust?
And why is ArenaNet so anti-complexity? The complex build system was something that attracted me to the game…
If you thought guild wars 2 system is complex, then you haven’t played a lot of games. your post reads like a person who hates change.
The old system was extremely silly. Why have stats that are attached to traits? It made no sense. The old system provide no real choices, this system forces the player to think and make the appropriate choices.
The complexity in this new system comes for the fact that for most class, this new system forces them to actually think about their choices, the old system, you never had to think since you could have it all.
There were/are good and bad things about both systems. Those players categorizing the new system as an absolute FAIL are simply not reviewing both objectively and statements like, “killing the game” are outlandish over-exaggerations that tend to make readers dismiss anything you post.
Yes, some specific builds are no longer possible, but change is not always a bad thing…
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Said it before, sayin’ it again: Guild Wars 2 just got back-doored by a Talent Tree system (ie World of Warcraft). You got handed a big old kitten sandwich, and I’m astonished at how many people are happily taking a bite (and defending the flavor). You got the same old crap as other homogenized, tired and formulaic MMO’s – in a different wrapper.
Where GW2’s semi-deep system once had an ever increasing pool of talents you could dip into (a smattering of useless traits is irrelevant), you are now enslaved to a linear, sterile path forward with no return. Now you get the illusion of meaningful choice. Now, if you want to build in a certain direction (ie condition damage, or defensive, or whatever) you’re trapped – you have little or no choice in your trees and your selections.
Now, if you want to build in a certain direction (ie condition damage, or defensive, or whatever) you’re trapped – you have little or no choice in your trees and your selections.
Sorry.
So, uh, just so I get this straight. You’re saying that in the old system if you wanted to build for Condition Damage, you had the freedom to go wherever you wanted, but in the new system you’re locked in to certain choices?
When the old system had one trait line that gave +300 Condition Damage stats, and another trait line that gave +30% Condition Duration?
Just making sure I’m reading this right!
(in the new system, my Berserker Thief in PvE can finally take the Trickery line for the powerful traits therein without being saddled with a worthless +300 Condition Damage stat, so I guess it’s worked out the opposite way for me from what you’re saying)
I think it does a lot in letting us have more functional builds. A lot of traits in the old system that affected weapons were made baseline, or buffed up to be worthy of being a trait. Example-necro staff. Used to be you had a trait for more mark damage, more mark radius and make unblockable, lower CD, and finally make marks generate life force. Now all we have is a trait to make them unblockable and grant life force. A bunch of traits were also merged, giving you essentially 2 traits for the price of one. It’s great! Now do I agree with all of trait placements and assignments, no. But overall we are a a lot more effective, don’t have to balance our builds around passive stat increases, are no longer limited to two full trait lines and one partial, and maybe now they can balance a bit faster, because now they don’t need to worry about adept, master, or minor traits, they just need to worry about if a trait fits the particular theme of the line and if it’s up to snuff with the other traits in its tier.
Overall, I say it maybe decreased build diversity, but it makes a number of builds far more viable, which is more important than just having a bunch of builds that come up short.
A knight in shining armor is a man who never had his metal truly tested.
Well, the old system wasn’t perfect. It did force you down a line or two (sort of). But that’s not exactly the argument I’m making. You still had that ever increasing pool of traits you could dip into. You don’t anymore. And it’s a fairly significant blow to customization. Plus, it’s just pure straight-up talent trees, and aren’t we just sick-to-frackin-death of that formulaic system?
And not to be the guy that just nitpicks and doesn’t offer solutions: Why can’t we have both? Why can’t we have the new emphasis on gear for the direction you want to take your stats, but keep the pools of traits you can dip into rather than forcing to pick from 1 of 3 at every tier?
Some of my characters logged in with much stronger versions of their build just from the game automatically switching them to a new similar trait build.
In my opinion, the diversity has vastly grown. The issue right now are bugs and certain things we were informed would be baselins, that did not make it in, taking value away from specific weapon sets and utilities.
One thing I notice, is that complaints, as those of the OP, all seem to be nonspecific, and avoid hashing out any specifics, with what they feel are actual problems.
That is because as always, people are Resistant To Change™. They dislike the new system because it’s so vastly different in design and layout, and so they’d have to learn all over again. When they perceived having to copy a spec off the internet as “effort” in the old system, and then it worked, so they don’t want to do it again. :P
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
I haven’t played with the new system extensively; however, I can see why some people are simply referring to this as a templating system. It is very much laid out that way, locking you into 1 of 3 at each tier. However, to me, the old system was just as much a template system. Had a few more individual options, yes, but it was still just as limiting due to how the traits were structured at that time. Yes, we have fewer total number of options, because we now have fewer traits per line (9 vs 13). However, with the combining, trimming, and rearranging of some of those traits (in conjunction with a few other changes), we now have more potentially desirable builds. That’s the big difference, at least in my opinion.
Don’t look at me like that. Whatever you’ve heard, it’s probably not true.
Ive read a lot of views on this subject, it seems the pve side loves the change so they can quickly optimize without much fuss. While pvp and wvw players miss the customization to build for specific situations. I think a lot of unique builds were lost and saying they were useless is just false . Even if they made the traits interchangeable on the template would really go far to restore some feeling of diversity.
I play pvp and pve and I prefer the buffed traits in both modes. I didn’t and still don’t use meta builds and u can still use the same weapons and play style as before… actually a couple niche weapons get used in some situations because they received buffs.
At the end if the day I have exactly the same amount of fun playing the game. Having 2 points in explosives for whatever reason didn’t make my experience any different.
I am hopeful that the new system continues to grow and get better. If any of the traits seem useless maybe they will get replace quicker. Only time will tell. I’m glad the garbage is gone and I will continue to enjoy the game base in content and competition… not quantity.
only think the specializations limits is using FAIL builds … so yes it’s less divers but it only cuts out the bad builds so what exactly is the problem?
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaah I highly doubt ANET is going to go back to the old trait system even if the new specializations are “killing the game”. OP can either adapt or ragequit. If it’s going to be the latter, then… i can h4z all yuar g0ldz pl0x lol rofl!11one!?
I wonder how many people have thought about the future as they introduce more specialization lines, particularly elite specializations.
This is a preparatory step to the new advancement. That and masteries.
Elite specializations could have been introduced with old trait distribution system. However they decided to reinvent the wheel again. And elite specs won’t be additional lines but replacing one of core lines in the build so the only question to take elite spec will be “is it better than X”. So much diversity.
And you know that how? Considering the nature of specializations, I’m not really sure that’s true. Saying so, doesn’t make it so.
The idea is to have a platform to build on. Adding skills and traits in the old system would have yielded a system similar to Guild Wars 1. While some people wish that that system was here, it is in fact, almost impossible to balance.
Saying a company can do something, without knowing their long term plans has far more chance of being wrong than right.
Overall, I like the new system. I find it’s easier for me to use. I’m not really into hugely detailed builds with numbers and percentages, though. For someone that wants to have a nice build without spending a lot of time at it, this system works really well for me.
Actually given the number of “required” traits that were made baseline or put as minors, there’s more room for interesting things. However there does exist a lot of weak options that aren’t viable alternatives.
I would honestly prefer this new system over the last.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
I also prefer more about the new system than the old. The unlocking is better. More points is better. Merged traits are better that their older, separate, counterparts. Divorcing traits from stats opens up options and is thus better. While the relative value of various tier traits is going to be subjective, for my money ANet devs did a better job of putting more powerful stuff in Master/GM tiers than in the old system — though ommv on this point.
However, there are some ways in which the older system was better. Stat selection is now totally gear dependent. Since I prefer the GW stat allocation system to GW2’s, this move did not please me. There was also the one-time annoyance of deleting non-max level characters due to being shoehorned into lines I did not want to play.
However, my largest issue with the new system is that the opportunity costs for some traits are higher than for others. By that I mean that wanting a single trait in a line that otherwise contains nothing I value saddles me with more undesired options than a similar tier trait in a line that does have other desirable options. This skewing of opportunity costs existed to some degree in the old system, but mostly with traits that were in the Master or GM tiers. In the new system, a single desirable trait can cost 1/3 of the possible options regardless of whether that trait is adept, master or GM.
To be fair, even the above issue is mitigated to some degree if I consider that even if the old system allowed me to drop “only” 2/14 of my points to cherry pick an adept trait, dropping 6/18 into a line to get an adept trait in the new system still leaves me with the same 12 points to spend on other lines. Where it would truly get worse would be if one wants an adept and nothing else from multiple lines. At this point, we’re talking fewer of the possible builds under the old system.
If we forget that this is a game, and that it has combat, be it against the AI or actual players (therefor needs balance), and we look solely to the mathematics point of view, I agree: Diversity was heavily crippled.
In the old system if we went full on a trait line we would have 240 different outcomes for that line alone, whereas in the new system we have 27 possible ones. But that’s just mathematics.
In the old system it was extremally hard to predict what choices a player would make, and those choices would either make you as a player feel under or overpowered. At the end, in the big picture of the game it was nothing but an illusion of choice. The hardcore players were running meta builds (no choice there) and the rest of the player base were being barely functional, and most of the time sub optimal.
Now we have 10 different combinations of core specializations (20 when the elite one drops) and within each of the three chosen ones you have 27 possibilities. That’s 810 possible combinations of traits to make your build [wich will soon double] and that is still a lot to think of when balancing everything out. But what makes this system better is that it is easier to predict the outcomes, and now devs can provide meaningful choices instead of just choices and make a lot of them much more viable and fun/rewarding to run.
I agree, it was only the illusion of choice. The better builds are available to everyone who’s interested enough to spend a half hour researching the net. Allowing crummy builds only served to give free kills to vultures preying on the n00bs.
All my hybrids are viable now… I have all my condi builds viable now in pve…. I do not mind. zerk has fewer options? does it
23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
Not played for long myself but I really think the revamped talent system is a bad move for the game. It was a relief to see a talent system that didn’t force you play a specific build. I reminded me of the diversity that wow once offered over your builds and gave you the opportunity to make obscure builds that mabye only worked for you. That’s gone now and it feels like your pretty much forced into playing a linear talent system with very little diversity.
In my opinion the biggest mistake blizzard with wow was kittening up the talent system at the end of wotlk and look at the state of the game now! If you continue to dumb down your game it can only end in one way!
