Guild Wars 2

A little bit of challenge is always welcome.

Ayrilana.1396:

FogLeg.9354:

Ayrilana.1396:

Half tempted to solo the last instance of HoT without armor and no traits allocated just to prove a point on how soloable it is.

Just because some people can run 100 meters under 10 seconds does not mean everyone can. Or should, considering this is a game that is suppose to be about having fun, and not about misery and suffering.

Just request Anet to make a mote for an infantile mode where the enemies hit with a wet noodle. That mission is only difficult for a subset of players and chances are they’re the same ones struggling with the rest of the game.

Wow, your ego level is over 9000. Different people enjoy different things, this is the reason that a lot of games include a difficulty level named Story.

Also, there are MMOs out there that let you choose your difficulty level for the story missions. If we could have that, you could brag that you completed them on Master level or whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

If I’m trying to see how the story unfolds and it’s mostly about my character I shouldn’t be forced to group with other players OR suffer a miserable time trying to complete them. I didn’t finish the HOT story because it was too kitten annoying.

A lot of games nowadays include a “Story Mode” difficulty type because they’re designed for people who don’t actually want to play the game, but are there for an interactive, cinematic experience… or something. I guess those types of “gamers” exist now, but I don’t know if an action MMORPG like GW2 needs it. I don’t think the story content is particularly challenging as long as you have a basic grip of the mechanics and run a decent build/gear setup. If you die too easily, a setup that is a bit sturdier might be a solution. Sure, it won’t win you fights quite as fast, but that’s better than not winning them at all, right?

Kreed.2768:

A lot of games nowadays include a “Story Mode” difficulty type because they’re designed for people who don’t actually want to play the game, but are there for an interactive, cinematic experience… or something.

This is an unfortunate truth. Easier difficulties existed in games in the past, but more recently we get difficulty settings that make the game play itself, so the player is only making dialogue/story choices and doesn’t participate in the action. Press a button and all enemies die, while they do next to no damage to you.

This type of gamer will go and try to get into online games too, they already did when they left the comfort of facebook/browser games to try other types of games and this “story mode” difficulty is the result as the gaming industry tries to make these types of players comfortable. Since they come from p2w facebook/browser games they are also known to spend a lot of money too.

But online games cannot cater to those types of players without risking losing the other types of players. It is easy in single player games because these types of players do not interact with each other, however, in online games they do. And that’s where the problem lies for MMORPGs and online multiplayer games in general.

Kreed.2768:

A lot of games nowadays include a “Story Mode” difficulty type because they’re designed for people who don’t actually want to play the game, but are there for an interactive, cinematic experience… or something. I guess those types of “gamers” exist now, but I don’t know if an action MMORPG like GW2 needs it. I don’t think the story content is particularly challenging as long as you have a basic grip of the mechanics and run a decent build/gear setup. If you die too easily, a setup that is a bit sturdier might be a solution. Sure, it won’t win you fights quite as fast, but that’s better than not winning them at all, right?

If you’re the type of person that can only enjoys things if there are other people that can’t have them – yes, it makes sense to think like that.

But at the end of the day, why would you care how other people play their story missions?

Shouldn’t those ‘dirty story peasants’ eat their cookies too? In the end they also payed for those, money that are used for further development of the game you love.

Ashivan.5216:

Kreed.2768:

A lot of games nowadays include a “Story Mode” difficulty type because they’re designed for people who don’t actually want to play the game, but are there for an interactive, cinematic experience… or something. I guess those types of “gamers” exist now, but I don’t know if an action MMORPG like GW2 needs it. I don’t think the story content is particularly challenging as long as you have a basic grip of the mechanics and run a decent build/gear setup. If you die too easily, a setup that is a bit sturdier might be a solution. Sure, it won’t win you fights quite as fast, but that’s better than not winning them at all, right?

If you’re the type of person that can only enjoys things if there are other people that can’t have them – yes, it makes sense to think like that.

But at the end of the day, why would you care how other people play their story missions?

Shouldn’t those ‘dirty story peasants’ eat their cookies too? In the end they also payed for those, money that are used for further development of the game you love.

It doesn’t make any sense to promote a story mode in a game that was advertised with an active combat system. Besides, what is the point of promoting a story mode experience in a game that has never been able to promote a top notch story with full and meaningful character development for each of his main protagonist ?

Let’s get real here. It is not because the game is casual that it needs to cater to each personal interest of the entire playerbase. The game overall has always pushed for some sort of content that got harder over time, even in core tyria. And in a game that has never promoted gear treadmill, I find it perfectly fair that over time, some sort of skill (not talking about raid speedclear or high end fractals skill) might be required, based on what the game promotes and has promoted: an active combat system and new specializations that makes the character straight up more powerful than before.

Ashivan.5216:

Kreed.2768:

A lot of games nowadays include a “Story Mode” difficulty type because they’re designed for people who don’t actually want to play the game, but are there for an interactive, cinematic experience… or something. I guess those types of “gamers” exist now, but I don’t know if an action MMORPG like GW2 needs it. I don’t think the story content is particularly challenging as long as you have a basic grip of the mechanics and run a decent build/gear setup. If you die too easily, a setup that is a bit sturdier might be a solution. Sure, it won’t win you fights quite as fast, but that’s better than not winning them at all, right?

If you’re the type of person that can only enjoys things if there are other people that can’t have them – yes, it makes sense to think like that.

But at the end of the day, why would you care how other people play their story missions?

Shouldn’t those ‘dirty story peasants’ eat their cookies too? In the end they also payed for those, money that are used for further development of the game you love.

I care how other people intereact in the open world sharing events I’m in. If they can’t get through story they should want to get better Doing everything on the easy mode means they’re carried through everything else.

And I don’t actually mind carrying people or teaching them. But it’s naive to think that letting people not learn how to play the game is somehow better for the game.

I don’t get why so many people have this issue. I’m a really bad player, but got the game for the story and played alone through all the living world stories and the HoT expansion without a party. Had no problem with any instances… There are some option implementations like action camera and other stuff that helped but still, the game is by no means hard at all (unless you are soloing a raid boss or a dungeon for some reason).
I also saw some people streaming using the mouse to click on their skills…. Honestly… I won’t even talk about that…

Raven.1524:

I also saw some people streaming using the mouse to click on their skills…. Honestly… I won’t even talk about that…

That again.. really?

I can handle 3 buttons with my left hand and the rest i have to click. Before my stroke i could do 5 buttons and the rest i had to click.

Should i be ashamed or something?

Just be glad you can do everything blindfolded and on keybinds and stop making fun of those that can’t.

Abakk.9176:

Raven.1524:

I also saw some people streaming using the mouse to click on their skills…. Honestly… I won’t even talk about that…

That again.. really?

I can handle 3 buttons with my left hand and the rest i have to click. Before my stroke i could do 5 buttons and the rest i had to click.

Should i be ashamed or something?

Just be glad you can do everything blindfolded and on keybinds and stop making fun of those that can’t.

You definitely shouldn’t be ashamed and I understand physical issues from personal experience. There are things I’ll never be able to do in this game. I just don’t feel the game should be programmed around such issues, no matter how unfair that might sound.

It sucks when you can’t do stuff due to injury or disability. But game companies have a responsibility to the playerbase as a whole, rather than individuals. It’s a sad fact of life.

Vayne.8563:

Abakk.9176:

Raven.1524:

I also saw some people streaming using the mouse to click on their skills…. Honestly… I won’t even talk about that…

That again.. really?

I can handle 3 buttons with my left hand and the rest i have to click. Before my stroke i could do 5 buttons and the rest i had to click.

Should i be ashamed or something?

Just be glad you can do everything blindfolded and on keybinds and stop making fun of those that can’t.

You definitely shouldn’t be ashamed and I understand physical issues from personal experience. There are things I’ll never be able to do in this game. I just don’t feel the game should be programmed around such issues, no matter how unfair that might sound.

It sucks when you can’t do stuff due to injury or disability. But game companies have a responsibility to the playerbase as a whole, rather than individuals. It’s a sad fact of life.

What i was talking about is the neverending witch hunt against people that aren’t adept at playing with a full set of keybinds and have to use a mouse to click.

Like it’s a crime to Humanity or something.

As for the ending instance of HoT… i done it as i stated earlier in this thread.

If at first you don’t succeed, try, try, again. It’s how all MMORPG’s instanced content used to be done, by trial and error. Not by not using a mouse.

Vayne.8563:

Ashivan.5216:

Kreed.2768:

A lot of games nowadays include a “Story Mode” difficulty type because they’re designed for people who don’t actually want to play the game, but are there for an interactive, cinematic experience… or something. I guess those types of “gamers” exist now, but I don’t know if an action MMORPG like GW2 needs it. I don’t think the story content is particularly challenging as long as you have a basic grip of the mechanics and run a decent build/gear setup. If you die too easily, a setup that is a bit sturdier might be a solution. Sure, it won’t win you fights quite as fast, but that’s better than not winning them at all, right?

If you’re the type of person that can only enjoys things if there are other people that can’t have them – yes, it makes sense to think like that.

But at the end of the day, why would you care how other people play their story missions?

Shouldn’t those ‘dirty story peasants’ eat their cookies too? In the end they also payed for those, money that are used for further development of the game you love.

I care how other people intereact in the open world sharing events I’m in. If they can’t get through story they should want to get better Doing everything on the easy mode means they’re carried through everything else.

And I don’t actually mind carrying people or teaching them. But it’s naive to think that letting people not learn how to play the game is somehow better for the game.

Ah, Vayne always vigilant that the players are learning the game

You know there is a distinction between the story missions and those open world sharing events, you are mostly concerned… right?

For me personally, this game is not a big thing in my gaming life. I like to come back from time to time and see the new content and fiddle with new classes and builds. So from this pov I can see that the game veterans (you were saying in another thread something about having 20 characters – yay ) are trying to defend their way of playing and their history with the game.

On the other hand I like to think the story difficulty modes (with reduced rewards ofc) would allow more people to have an enjoyable story experience so they would stick more to the game, getting to eventually learn all the combat mechanics. I’m not a huge story/lore buff but I like to see how some story arcs conclude. And while not I’m completely against difficult content , I can’t see the story being one of the difficult content pillars.

Ashivan.5216:

On the other hand I like to think the story difficulty modes (with reduced rewards ofc) would allow more people to have an enjoyable story experience so they would stick more to the game, getting to eventually learn all the combat mechanics. I’m not a huge story/lore buff but I like to see how some story arcs conclude. And while not I’m completely against difficult content , I can’t see the story being one of the difficult content pillars.

The story missions can teach you the game so when you go out there and do something with other people you are better prepared. A solo closed/instanced environment is better for training and teaching people how to play than the open world or content for multiple players.

maddoctor.2738:

Ashivan.5216:

On the other hand I like to think the story difficulty modes (with reduced rewards ofc) would allow more people to have an enjoyable story experience so they would stick more to the game, getting to eventually learn all the combat mechanics. I’m not a huge story/lore buff but I like to see how some story arcs conclude. And while not I’m completely against difficult content , I can’t see the story being one of the difficult content pillars.

The story missions can teach you the game so when you go out there and do something with other people you are better prepared. A solo closed/instanced environment is better for training and teaching people how to play than the open world or content for multiple players.

Ok, I’ll play this game. Maybe I’m a lousy player with a bad memory but I managed to go through the HOT campaign until the last mission – where I failed and didn’t want to replay it, and I don’t remember learning something crucial to use in open world events.

If you could point some examples that I might have overlooked – please tell me. I’m not ironic btw… I just didn’t see anything special that had to be learned through the story missions, that you couldn’t see in normal open maps anyway.

If they can set it up to have a difficulty slider or something then I would be fine. As long as it isn’t made more face-roll for me I’m fine. I already don’t care about the lore so some level of difficulty to keep me entertained is appreciated.

I’ve solo’d everything but the end of HoT. Was going to solo but there were lots asking for a group at the entrance so I assumed a group was needed.

Hupsel.1920:

Heyas!

Bosses I found to be hard for solo:

. Caudecuous (probably spelling his name wrong, sorry!)
. The two dogs on the last mission of episode 5 of LWS3
. Mordremonth, of course

Also I play as thief

I found that watching some of the play-throughs helped me figure out positioning in those fights. I agree though Caudecus was a pain (took me several times to finish it). For me the problem was in getting passed the Jade Armor, I needed the walk-through to figure out the Path of Whispers version so I could avoid fighting them (I can’t solo them).

The Hounds were a bit tough too but once you got used to where you needed to be you could solve it (playthrough helped me with positioning and that made the difference).

Ashivan.5216:

If you could point some examples that I might have overlooked – please tell me. I’m not ironic btw… I just didn’t see anything special that had to be learned through the story missions, that you couldn’t see in normal open maps anyway.

In all heart of thorns instances you fight new enemies before you face them in the open world, this includes mordrem, saurians and chak. That is if you follow the story directly and not go explore around ignore it. And fighting them in the instances means you cannot hide behind other players to kill them. Or relying on other players to break their breakbars. That’s why training in an instanced environment is better, it’s easier to teach the player mechanics and how to deal with situations when they cannot be a part of huge blob that does all the work for them. In instances you are responsible for yourself

If everyone who finished that very first instance of Heart of Thorns was actually paying attention then the Wyvern Matriarch’s breakbar later on in VB would always break. Although I’m saying an instance is better at training than the open world, it doesn’t mean that the instances of this game are doing the best job at it.

Ashivan.5216:

Vayne.8563:

Ashivan.5216:

Kreed.2768:

A lot of games nowadays include a “Story Mode” difficulty type because they’re designed for people who don’t actually want to play the game, but are there for an interactive, cinematic experience… or something. I guess those types of “gamers” exist now, but I don’t know if an action MMORPG like GW2 needs it. I don’t think the story content is particularly challenging as long as you have a basic grip of the mechanics and run a decent build/gear setup. If you die too easily, a setup that is a bit sturdier might be a solution. Sure, it won’t win you fights quite as fast, but that’s better than not winning them at all, right?

If you’re the type of person that can only enjoys things if there are other people that can’t have them – yes, it makes sense to think like that.

But at the end of the day, why would you care how other people play their story missions?

Shouldn’t those ‘dirty story peasants’ eat their cookies too? In the end they also payed for those, money that are used for further development of the game you love.

I care how other people intereact in the open world sharing events I’m in. If they can’t get through story they should want to get better Doing everything on the easy mode means they’re carried through everything else.

And I don’t actually mind carrying people or teaching them. But it’s naive to think that letting people not learn how to play the game is somehow better for the game.

Ah, Vayne always vigilant that the players are learning the game

You know there is a distinction between the story missions and those open world sharing events, you are mostly concerned… right?

For me personally, this game is not a big thing in my gaming life. I like to come back from time to time and see the new content and fiddle with new classes and builds. So from this pov I can see that the game veterans (you were saying in another thread something about having 20 characters – yay ) are trying to defend their way of playing and their history with the game.

On the other hand I like to think the story difficulty modes (with reduced rewards ofc) would allow more people to have an enjoyable story experience so they would stick more to the game, getting to eventually learn all the combat mechanics. I’m not a huge story/lore buff but I like to see how some story arcs conclude. And while not I’m completely against difficult content , I can’t see the story being one of the difficult content pillars.

Well see here is the disconnect. Guys who play this game for a month and leave for a year and come back for another month aren’t really keeping the lights on in my opinion. I’m not saying that they should be excluded from all thought, but I don’t want my instances to be dead boring because someone else wants it easy.

And it’s not that hard to learn the game. Plenty of casual people do. It’s not like studying for a law degree. Most of the stuff people need to learn could be taught in an hour or two, and it might just make the game better for them as well. I know I’ve helped a lot of casual players out learning the game and it’s given them a better appreciation of the game.

People seem to be arguing that they cant’ get better or they simply don’t want to. I’m saying those players aren’t really something Anet should cater to. Not at the expense of players who are here all the time, supporting the game on a constant basis.

Ashivan.5216:

maddoctor.2738:

Ashivan.5216:

On the other hand I like to think the story difficulty modes (with reduced rewards ofc) would allow more people to have an enjoyable story experience so they would stick more to the game, getting to eventually learn all the combat mechanics. I’m not a huge story/lore buff but I like to see how some story arcs conclude. And while not I’m completely against difficult content , I can’t see the story being one of the difficult content pillars.

The story missions can teach you the game so when you go out there and do something with other people you are better prepared. A solo closed/instanced environment is better for training and teaching people how to play than the open world or content for multiple players.

Ok, I’ll play this game. Maybe I’m a lousy player with a bad memory but I managed to go through the HOT campaign until the last mission – where I failed and didn’t want to replay it, and I don’t remember learning something crucial to use in open world events.

If you could point some examples that I might have overlooked – please tell me. I’m not ironic btw… I just didn’t see anything special that had to be learned through the story missions, that you couldn’t see in normal open maps anyway.

Well I learned how snipers work, I found out when to reflect the frogs dart hail, I learned wich mobs to not use my stuns on and alot more. I will not say it’s only from doing storymode but as you are in a more controlled space with no other players it’s easier to take it easy and study the enemies and the situations.

maddoctor.2738:

Ashivan.5216:

If you could point some examples that I might have overlooked – please tell me. I’m not ironic btw… I just didn’t see anything special that had to be learned through the story missions, that you couldn’t see in normal open maps anyway.

In all heart of thorns instances you fight new enemies before you face them in the open world, this includes mordrem, saurians and chak. That is if you follow the story directly and not go explore around ignore it. And fighting them in the instances means you cannot hide behind other players to kill them. Or relying on other players to break their breakbars. That’s why training in an instanced environment is better, it’s easier to teach the player mechanics and how to deal with situations when they cannot be a part of huge blob that does all the work for them. In instances you are responsible for yourself

If everyone who finished that very first instance of Heart of Thorns was actually paying attention then the Wyvern Matriarch’s breakbar later on in VB would always break. Although I’m saying an instance is better at training than the open world, it doesn’t mean that the instances of this game are doing the best job at it.

I am not sure how other people play but I always like to see a little the zones where the story takes part before actually delving in. Also you do need to run to a specific map point to start the story missions. While doing that, you will encounter those enemies anyway.

Fair enough for the Wyvern breakbar example although the defiance mechanic is not something new, exclusive to HOT mobs. And I don’t think all the new players get accustomed with the HOT maps through zerg trains… I am almost convinced that is not a thing that really happens.

Ashivan.5216:

Also you do need to run to a specific map point to start the story missions. While doing that, you will encounter those enemies anyway.

The first story mission of each map takes place close to the start of each map. Verdant Brink story begins before you even set foot in the zone, so you meet your first mordrem (and some saurians) in the instance. Auric Basin story starts at the entrance too, Tangled Depths story starts near the entrance as well and you meet your first Chak in the story.

Fair enough for the Wyvern breakbar example although the defiance mechanic is not something new, exclusive to HOT mobs. And I don’t think all the new players get accustomed with the HOT maps through zerg trains… I am almost convinced that is not a thing that really happens.

The breakbar was introduced with Heart of Thorns and it is exclusive there on regular mobs, in core tyria only champion mobs have them, with the rare exception of the Shatterer adds.

And in any case it is much easier to learn the mechanics of an enemy in a closed controlled environment rather than the open world with multiple players around.

Ayrilana.1396:

Half tempted to solo the last instance of HoT without armor and no traits allocated just to prove a point on how soloable it is.

“Oh yea? You can complain all you want that playing the flute is hard but I can do it blindfolded and with earplugs!” So what? Some people are inherently better at things than others. The fact that some experienced players find story missions hard but some players find them easy doesn’t say anything about how difficult they actually are.

Either Anet cares that their players experience the story in GW2 or not. If they don’t care, I’m not sure why they are bothering to take the time to write some of the really good story that I’ve seen. They should just keep writing crap like the Commander being so untrustworthy that he is forced to join the Shining Blade. It would give them more resources for crap like Adventures.

Djinn.9245:

Ayrilana.1396:

Half tempted to solo the last instance of HoT without armor and no traits allocated just to prove a point on how soloable it is.

“Oh yea? You can complain all you want that playing the flute is hard but I can do it blindfolded and with earplugs!” So what? Some people are inherently better at things than others. The fact that some experienced players find story missions hard but some players find them easy doesn’t say anything about how difficult they actually are.

Either Anet cares that their players experience the story in GW2 or not. If they don’t care, I’m not sure why they are bothering to take the time to write some of the really good story that I’ve seen. They should just keep writing crap like the Commander being so untrustworthy that he is forced to join the Shining Blade. It would give them more resources for crap like Adventures.

Or maybe Anet wants people to get better at the game, and finishing the story is a form of encouragement that works on some people but not others. Maybe they simply have to draw a line somewhere and, unfortunately, some people are on the wrong side of that line.

Maybe creating something that fits everyone is harder than it sounds. Making it too easy would be as bad as making it too hard. I’m sure there are some stories you find fine and some you don’t. But that’s probably true of everyone….including me.

Leon de Damasco.8105:

Well…

We are not talking about be able to run 100 meters under 10 seconds. We had a calculus example here before. This is more about something like do you drive a car? Was easy the first time? How long you tried before you was able to drive alone? How about a bicycle? Do you play güitar? Sing? Paint? Was easy the first time?

What you’re missing is that this isn’t “the first time”. By the time you get to the final story missions, you are level 80.

Vayne.8563:

Well see here is the disconnect. Guys who play this game for a month and leave for a year and come back for another month aren’t really keeping the lights on in my opinion. I’m not saying that they should be excluded from all thought, but I don’t want my instances to be dead boring because someone else wants it easy.

And it’s not that hard to learn the game. Plenty of casual people do. It’s not like studying for a law degree. Most of the stuff people need to learn could be taught in an hour or two, and it might just make the game better for them as well. I know I’ve helped a lot of casual players out learning the game and it’s given them a better appreciation of the game.

People seem to be arguing that they cant’ get better or they simply don’t want to. I’m saying those players aren’t really something Anet should cater to. Not at the expense of players who are here all the time, supporting the game on a constant basis.

I never argued for making the story missions dead easy, for all the players. It’s against the freedom to play how each player likes, something that I love to find in games.

What I was saying and think is reasonable is to have difficulty modes ranging from Story (easy mode) with small rewards to Elite/whatever name (that could actually be more difficult that they currently are) with bigger rewards.

You will not be robbed of anything but instead you would gain the freedom to play them at what difficulty level you feels is more appropriate for your skill level.

But I suspect you won’t like that, because as you said – you are the people that keep the game lights on while the casuals move on / come back and the game should only speak your language in terms of difficulty…

Ashivan.5216:

Vayne.8563:

Well see here is the disconnect. Guys who play this game for a month and leave for a year and come back for another month aren’t really keeping the lights on in my opinion. I’m not saying that they should be excluded from all thought, but I don’t want my instances to be dead boring because someone else wants it easy.

And it’s not that hard to learn the game. Plenty of casual people do. It’s not like studying for a law degree. Most of the stuff people need to learn could be taught in an hour or two, and it might just make the game better for them as well. I know I’ve helped a lot of casual players out learning the game and it’s given them a better appreciation of the game.

People seem to be arguing that they cant’ get better or they simply don’t want to. I’m saying those players aren’t really something Anet should cater to. Not at the expense of players who are here all the time, supporting the game on a constant basis.

I never argued for making the story missions dead easy, for all the players. It’s against the freedom to play how each player likes, something that I love to find in games.

What I was saying and think is reasonable is to have difficulty modes ranging from Story (easy mode) with small rewards to Elite/whatever name (that could actually be more difficult that they currently are) with bigger rewards.

You will not be robbed of anything but instead you would gain the freedom to play them at what difficulty level you feels is more appropriate for your skill level.

But I suspect you won’t like that, because as you said – you are the people that keep the game lights on while the casuals move on / come back and the game should only speak your language in terms of difficulty…

It’s not only that, but there’s also far more programming testing time involved in doing that. For a company coming out with a story and zone every 2-3 months, it sounds like a big ask to me.

Djinn.9245:

Either Anet cares that their players experience the story in GW2 or not.

If you are struggling with a particular fight, state your build, state the part that’s giving you trouble and you will get advice on how to beat it. Blanket statements “this is too hard” get the answer “if I can do it, so can you” and we are back to square one. Give a silly argument, you’ll get a silly argument.

Be specific. That’s what being constructive and giving valuable feedback is all about, otherwise it’s a rant, and I surely hope the developers never listen to rants, nor care about their experience of the game.

Check this thread for advice:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback-1/first#post6372017

Ashivan.5216:

Vayne.8563:

Well see here is the disconnect. Guys who play this game for a month and leave for a year and come back for another month aren’t really keeping the lights on in my opinion. I’m not saying that they should be excluded from all thought, but I don’t want my instances to be dead boring because someone else wants it easy.

And it’s not that hard to learn the game. Plenty of casual people do. It’s not like studying for a law degree. Most of the stuff people need to learn could be taught in an hour or two, and it might just make the game better for them as well. I know I’ve helped a lot of casual players out learning the game and it’s given them a better appreciation of the game.

People seem to be arguing that they cant’ get better or they simply don’t want to. I’m saying those players aren’t really something Anet should cater to. Not at the expense of players who are here all the time, supporting the game on a constant basis.

I never argued for making the story missions dead easy, for all the players. It’s against the freedom to play how each player likes, something that I love to find in games.

What I was saying and think is reasonable is to have difficulty modes ranging from Story (easy mode) with small rewards to Elite/whatever name (that could actually be more difficult that they currently are) with bigger rewards.

You will not be robbed of anything but instead you would gain the freedom to play them at what difficulty level you feels is more appropriate for your skill level.

But I suspect you won’t like that, because as you said – you are the people that keep the game lights on while the casuals move on / come back and the game should only speak your language in terms of difficulty…

The truth is that you cannot make the game all things to all people. No game has infinite possibilities to do everything that suits everyone’s game play.

The freedom to play as you like has nothing to do with the game being tailored to each person’s preferences and desires.

All games, not just this one, are designed to be playable by most. Asking for more than that, IMO, is beyond the pale.

maddoctor.2738:

Djinn.9245:

Either Anet cares that their players experience the story in GW2 or not.

If you are struggling with a particular fight, state your build, state the part that’s giving you trouble and you will get advice on how to beat it. Blanket statements “this is too hard” get the answer “if I can do it, so can you” and we are back to square one. Give a silly argument, you’ll get a silly argument.

Be specific. That’s what being constructive and giving valuable feedback is all about, otherwise it’s a rant, and I surely hope the developers never listen to rants, nor care about their experience of the game.

Check this thread for advice:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback-1/first#post6372017

Stating that “story boss fights are too difficult” is not a rant. I and others with this opinion are giving feedback to Anet. I’m not looking for advice on how to tweak my builds (which I get from Metabattle) or how to beat the fight which I could look up online. I admit that even though I have played from beta I am not as good a player as others. I do not have good twitch skills. I have not played the type of game that encourages those. I also probably don’t make the best tactical decisions in the heat of battle. What I play MMOs for is story, not combat. Until more recently, combat was in other types of games (FPS, MOBA) and no one played MMOs for the combat.

I personally don’t want Anet to nerf boss fights, just make a Story version so I can get a completion and experience the story. Most boss fights have a skin or other unique reward that could be kept for the regular version of the fight.

jheryn.8390:

Ashivan.5216:

Vayne.8563:

Well see here is the disconnect. Guys who play this game for a month and leave for a year and come back for another month aren’t really keeping the lights on in my opinion. I’m not saying that they should be excluded from all thought, but I don’t want my instances to be dead boring because someone else wants it easy.

And it’s not that hard to learn the game. Plenty of casual people do. It’s not like studying for a law degree. Most of the stuff people need to learn could be taught in an hour or two, and it might just make the game better for them as well. I know I’ve helped a lot of casual players out learning the game and it’s given them a better appreciation of the game.

People seem to be arguing that they cant’ get better or they simply don’t want to. I’m saying those players aren’t really something Anet should cater to. Not at the expense of players who are here all the time, supporting the game on a constant basis.

I never argued for making the story missions dead easy, for all the players. It’s against the freedom to play how each player likes, something that I love to find in games.

What I was saying and think is reasonable is to have difficulty modes ranging from Story (easy mode) with small rewards to Elite/whatever name (that could actually be more difficult that they currently are) with bigger rewards.

You will not be robbed of anything but instead you would gain the freedom to play them at what difficulty level you feels is more appropriate for your skill level.

But I suspect you won’t like that, because as you said – you are the people that keep the game lights on while the casuals move on / come back and the game should only speak your language in terms of difficulty…

The truth is that you cannot make the game all things to all people. No game has infinite possibilities to do everything that suits everyone’s game play.

The freedom to play as you like has nothing to do with the game being tailored to each person’s preferences and desires.

All games, not just this one, are designed to be playable by most. Asking for more than that, IMO, is beyond the pale.

Actually there are not a lot of things that needed tweaking, just some number adjustments, in terms of dmg and hp. I would not ask for several LD layouts of the same mission – it’s too much work.

@Vayne.8563:

Well yes, it would involve some adjustments and QA sessions but not something really big.

Anyway, I will have to agree with you – it’s not something that can be expected at this point. Maybe the have some tracking data that tells them it’s useless to do this as the ROI is too low… who knows.

Djinn.9245:

Stating that “story boss fights are too difficult” is not a rant.

It’s not a constructive statement that any developer can act on. You do not specify which boss fight is hard nor which part of the fight is giving you trouble. Not only you can get advice by others who beat it on how you can do it yourself that way, but if the issue is hard enough the developers themselves can act on it.
It’s not like they never tweaked a boss or two due to feedback, those who finish it and find it easy might not even see the problems with it.

As for your meta-battle comment. The meta battle builds are there for instanced content and for optimized teams. As an example, when I’m solo on my Thief, either in the open world or inside story instances, I will never use Bounding Dodger like all metabattle Thief builds want me to. I will always use Unhindered Combatant instead, which is a much better option and makes the open world and many instances so much easier, and is especially good in Hearts and Minds, as well as all LS3 story instances.

Do not copy paste the entire meta battle build for every situation.

i played LW 3 solo ( full berserker guardian ) and i had only little problems with caudecus. The boss just was a clusterfu in the small room.

Mordremoth was not hard, just a little bit to long in my opionion.
Especially with the fights before him.

But i liked the fights. i loved the Queen’s Gauntlet and the Brawlers Guild in WoW.

maddoctor.2738:

As for your meta-battle comment. The meta battle builds are there for instanced content and for optimized teams. As an example, when I’m solo on my Thief, either in the open world or inside story instances, I will never use Bounding Dodger like all metabattle Thief builds want me to. I will always use Unhindered Combatant instead, which is a much better option and makes the open world and many instances so much easier, and is especially good in Hearts and Minds, as well as all LS3 story instances.

Do not copy paste the entire meta battle build for every situation.

This is so true, I never use Bound and always Unhindered Combatant. It reduces incoming damage by 10%, removes cc effects and gives you swiftness. That’s better in my book than the offensive nature of Bound.

But metabattle also tell people to equip a shortbow instead of pistols. No idea what the people behind this think, maybe they stopped playing a year ago. Every thief in fractals uses pistols, if I see a shortbow thief, it’s like watching a bear bow ranger.

Take off the zerk armor and use something that will help you survive.

Less DPS is better than being dead.

There is no proplem in story, If you cant Solo it, then change ur build. I have done The whole story Solo with My elementalist. It was hard with zerker so i took full celestial with me and facetanked The whole story line ^^

TLDR: I have nothing at all against ANet making an easy/story mode to instanced story missions, or even dungeons. If they have the time and resources to do that.

I personally won’t use it, but I’m all for letting people play to the difficulty they are comfortable with. And will gladly ask for a hard mode while they’re at it.

In the short term however, I can only recommend people to either get someone to help out, or just try to enjoy the aspect of figuring out how it works, how to beat.

I really enjoyed the HOT and LS3 content and how hard it is… I didn’t have problems soloing most of it except for Caudecus and some things where I didn’t have the magic mastery some people told me would help, but all of it was super fun because it really needed a good optimized balanced build like something for 1vX wvw roaming you know? and play really on your toes with lots of movements and everything you can do to survive, blocks, evades, blindness, CC, whatever. I think this is very good that PvE can push us to play well and smart. I’d say instead of trying to rush through content and just get all the rewards and things over with, look at your skills and builds and really optimize and learn your class well and take it as a test for yourself. I didn’t find it annoying, it was fun. there were diff mechanics coming from NPC enemies, they had condi, cc, stealth, like playing actual PvP. this is very good and fun imo. I even found Caudecus fun/funny bc anise kept trying to revive me and they were essentially invincible and I just stripped naked and ran back at him over and over. A ridiculously impossible situation can be fun if you look at it as a personal challenge or just simply, a game

i found that changing up my gear and my build helped alot with this. adapting to the battle and all. that and avoiding glass cannon builds..

Ashivan.5216:

Actually there are not a lot of things that needed tweaking, just some number adjustments, in terms of dmg and hp. I would not ask for several LD layouts of the same mission – it’s too much work.

“Needed” in this case is very subjective. What about the people that think the missions are too easy? What about those that may agree that the missions are difficult but like that for the challenge?

There are too many variables. I’m sure the devs make the content what they consider the middle of the road to satisfy most because they know they will never satisfy all.

Abakk.9176:

Vayne.8563:

Abakk.9176:

Raven.1524:

I also saw some people streaming using the mouse to click on their skills…. Honestly… I won’t even talk about that…

That again.. really?

I can handle 3 buttons with my left hand and the rest i have to click. Before my stroke i could do 5 buttons and the rest i had to click.

Should i be ashamed or something?

Just be glad you can do everything blindfolded and on keybinds and stop making fun of those that can’t.

You definitely shouldn’t be ashamed and I understand physical issues from personal experience. There are things I’ll never be able to do in this game. I just don’t feel the game should be programmed around such issues, no matter how unfair that might sound.

It sucks when you can’t do stuff due to injury or disability. But game companies have a responsibility to the playerbase as a whole, rather than individuals. It’s a sad fact of life.

What i was talking about is the neverending witch hunt against people that aren’t adept at playing with a full set of keybinds and have to use a mouse to click.

Like it’s a crime to Humanity or something.

As for the ending instance of HoT… i done it as i stated earlier in this thread.

If at first you don’t succeed, try, try, again. It’s how all MMORPG’s instanced content used to be done, by trial and error. Not by not using a mouse.

Just so you know, not everyone views it as a “crime”. To me it’s just a simple fact that some interfaces are faster than others.

Consider FPS games, for instance. It’s well-established that keyboard/mouse control is faster than controller thumb-stick control. Some games don’t even allow cross-platform play between PC and console players for this reason. Others add assisted-aiming features to compensate.

Unfortunately, in the case of clicking vs. keybinds, I don’t see that there’s anything they can do to compensate for the disparity without slowing down keybinds. I’ve heard they did this in FFXIV to some extent by introducing a significantly longer global cooldown to many of their abilities so that console players who obviously have only so many buttons on their controllers can use their skills without being at an extreme disadvantage.

In my opinion, that’s a terrible strategy that would destroy one of GW2’s greatest strengths: a fast and fluid combat system. Obviously, you didn’t suggest it. And I doubt anybody would given that we aren’t cross-platform in this game and I have to imagine that the vast majority of players use keybinds rather than clicking as it’s built into the interface from the start. But it illustrates the point that games ideally shouldn’t be designed to slow players down for the benefit of those who can’t keep up due to their interface.

Also, I realize you have disabilities, so I hope none of this comes off as insensitive. I’m just explaining my outlook. As far as having different difficulty modes to allow for players who use a slower interface (whether by choice or disability), I’m all for it as long as ANet considers it feasible in terms of development time/resources. Obviously, they always have to weigh how many players would benefit vs. how much time/resources it would cost.

takatsu.9416:

I really enjoyed the HOT and LS3 content and how hard it is… I didn’t have problems soloing most of it except for Caudecus and some things where I didn’t have the magic mastery some people told me would help, but all of it was super fun because it really needed a good optimized balanced build like something for 1vX wvw roaming you know? and play really on your toes with lots of movements and everything you can do to survive, blocks, evades, blindness, CC, whatever. I think this is very good that PvE can push us to play well and smart. I’d say instead of trying to rush through content and just get all the rewards and things over with, look at your skills and builds and really optimize and learn your class well and take it as a test for yourself. I didn’t find it annoying, it was fun. there were diff mechanics coming from NPC enemies, they had condi, cc, stealth, like playing actual PvP. this is very good and fun imo. I even found Caudecus fun/funny bc anise kept trying to revive me and they were essentially invincible and I just stripped naked and ran back at him over and over. A ridiculously impossible situation can be fun if you look at it as a personal challenge or just simply, a game

For me is even funnier you mentioning the PvE content being as difficult as the PvP.

The HOT enemies are indeed really liberal with their CC spam, just like in a PvP encounter.

So it shouldn’t be a huge surprise when someone asks for lower difficulty in story missions.

Ashivan.5216:

Ayrilana.1396:

FogLeg.9354:

Ayrilana.1396:

Half tempted to solo the last instance of HoT without armor and no traits allocated just to prove a point on how soloable it is.

Just because some people can run 100 meters under 10 seconds does not mean everyone can. Or should, considering this is a game that is suppose to be about having fun, and not about misery and suffering.

Just request Anet to make a mote for an infantile mode where the enemies hit with a wet noodle. That mission is only difficult for a subset of players and chances are they’re the same ones struggling with the rest of the game.

Wow, your ego level is over 9000. Different people enjoy different things, this is the reason that a lot of games include a difficulty level named Story.

Also, there are MMOs out there that let you choose your difficulty level for the story missions. If we could have that, you could brag that you completed them on Master level or whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

If I’m trying to see how the story unfolds and it’s mostly about my character I shouldn’t be forced to group with other players OR suffer a miserable time trying to complete them. I didn’t finish the HOT story because it was too kitten annoying.

This has nothing to do with ego. I just don’t want things dumbed down further. Games should not be catered to the lowest denominator otherwise everyone else suffers. Imagine if everything was made to die in one hit (disclaimer: the exaggeration isn’t my point). How would you feel about the gameplay?

I don’t think many players would find enemies that deal little damage to you, bosses that you can just stand next to and facetank, and without any mechanics very enjoyable.

Ayrilana.1396:

Games should not be catered to the lowest denominator

I could not disagree more. To remain successful, games like this absolutely MUST cater for the lowest common denominator. Those people are paying customers too. Call it easy mode, story mode, hard mode, expert mode or whatever but the fact is that a “challenging” level of difficulty can turn people off the game. You might be happy to see those people out of the game but every lost player means less money to develop the game.

Despite this being a MMORPG I think there are lots of people who want to play it solo, which makes some of those bosses seriously tedious and not fun. There would be no harm at all in having an easy story mode or whatever. It would not affect anyone else at all.

DoctorDing.5890:

Ayrilana.1396:

Games should not be catered to the lowest denominator

I could not disagree more. To remain successful, games like this absolutely MUST cater for the lowest common denominator. Those people are paying customers too. Call it easy mode, story mode, hard mode, expert mode or whatever but the fact is that a “challenging” level of difficulty can turn people off the game. You might be happy to see those people out of the game but every lost player means less money to develop the game.

Despite this being a MMORPG I think there are lots of people who want to play it solo, which makes some of those bosses seriously tedious and not fun. There would be no harm at all in having an easy story mode or whatever. It would not affect anyone else at all.

Lets also turn every books into cardboard toddler books because some illiterates keep buying books despite being unable to read.

DoctorDing.5890:

Ayrilana.1396:

Games should not be catered to the lowest denominator

I could not disagree more. To remain successful, games like this absolutely MUST cater for the lowest common denominator. Those people are paying customers too. Call it easy mode, story mode, hard mode, expert mode or whatever but the fact is that a “challenging” level of difficulty can turn people off the game. You might be happy to see those people out of the game but every lost player means less money to develop the game.

Despite this being a MMORPG I think there are lots of people who want to play it solo, which makes some of those bosses seriously tedious and not fun. There would be no harm at all in having an easy story mode or whatever. It would not affect anyone else at all.

No.

Lowest common denominators are not representative of the entire game population. They’re normally a very small minority. All it does is make the game less enjoyable for other players as we saw with complaints about core Tyria. If there were to be a difficulty for those players, it would need to be a more which they can activate giving them a more easy experience.

Deihnyx.6318:

Take off the zerk armor and use something that will help you survive.

Less DPS is better than being dead.

On the other hand, going into these things with full soldier’s can actually make it harder to complete. Applied DPS is still one of the best defenses in the game. So while Deihnyx is correct, people need to understand not to take it too far.

To the OP, look at your traits and look at what you are fighting, and make the fight slanted in your favour. It will do wonders and has nothing to do with mechanical skills. If you use a metabuild for group content when soloing, you can probably switch things up to be more self sufficient for example. If you can’turn apply a certain attack style in a certain situation, your applied dps will tank even if you have top tier paper dps, and you should change it for the fight.

Also to the person saying skill clicking is OK and that the witch hunt is unjustified… sharpens pitchfork
If you have to click for health reasons you are at a disadvantage which sucks but comes with the territory (My knee joints are messed up, I can’t do back flips on a trampoline and I accept this). If you choose to click when you are fully capable, you are choosing to slow down your reaction times and reduce your situational awareness. If you are part of a team, you are bringing down your team. That is why people are against it.

Edit: Bringing my click rant to a full circle to be relevant. I know clickers who were able to solo the story, and some of their builds make the theory crafter in me die a little. If you are weak in one area, you can improve there or over compensate elsewhere to cover the weakness. It is not asking for the absolute best.

PVE is programmed to lose to players every single time.

I’ve had a problem with most of the story missions for HoT because I was in zerk’s gear, kitten the people who say use zerks by the way. You’re just bad if you die in zerks… no the lot of you are being unrealistic because I know for a FACT you’re not getting out of that clean. Otherwise you wouldn’t hear people complaining so much about pocket raptors and mushrooms.

Lots of high damage mobs and AOE fields, can easily get one shotted by bosses. Or get hit with some unusually long chains of CC so you can’t do kitten.

When I swapped to something Like marauders that could stay a little healthier when getting swarmed by a bunch of high damage mobs… it got a lot easier.

You could do it in zerks and not die. But it’s boring because it requires you to play safer by taking a couple at a time.

Anyways… Season 3 and HoT is not friendly to anyone who is squishy as heck. Get some vitality or toughness on you.

AliamRationem.5172:

Abakk.9176:

Vayne.8563:

Abakk.9176:

Raven.1524:

I also saw some people streaming using the mouse to click on their skills…. Honestly… I won’t even talk about that…

That again.. really?

I can handle 3 buttons with my left hand and the rest i have to click. Before my stroke i could do 5 buttons and the rest i had to click.

Should i be ashamed or something?

Just be glad you can do everything blindfolded and on keybinds and stop making fun of those that can’t.

You definitely shouldn’t be ashamed and I understand physical issues from personal experience. There are things I’ll never be able to do in this game. I just don’t feel the game should be programmed around such issues, no matter how unfair that might sound.

It sucks when you can’t do stuff due to injury or disability. But game companies have a responsibility to the playerbase as a whole, rather than individuals. It’s a sad fact of life.

What i was talking about is the neverending witch hunt against people that aren’t adept at playing with a full set of keybinds and have to use a mouse to click.

Like it’s a crime to Humanity or something.

As for the ending instance of HoT… i done it as i stated earlier in this thread.

If at first you don’t succeed, try, try, again. It’s how all MMORPG’s instanced content used to be done, by trial and error. Not by not using a mouse.

Just so you know, not everyone views it as a “crime”. To me it’s just a simple fact that some interfaces are faster than others.

Consider FPS games, for instance. It’s well-established that keyboard/mouse control is faster than controller thumb-stick control. Some games don’t even allow cross-platform play between PC and console players for this reason. Others add assisted-aiming features to compensate.

Unfortunately, in the case of clicking vs. keybinds, I don’t see that there’s anything they can do to compensate for the disparity without slowing down keybinds. I’ve heard they did this in FFXIV to some extent by introducing a significantly longer global cooldown to many of their abilities so that console players who obviously have only so many buttons on their controllers can use their skills without being at an extreme disadvantage.

In my opinion, that’s a terrible strategy that would destroy one of GW2’s greatest strengths: a fast and fluid combat system. Obviously, you didn’t suggest it. And I doubt anybody would given that we aren’t cross-platform in this game and I have to imagine that the vast majority of players use keybinds rather than clicking as it’s built into the interface from the start. But it illustrates the point that games ideally shouldn’t be designed to slow players down for the benefit of those who can’t keep up due to their interface.

Also, I realize you have disabilities, so I hope none of this comes off as insensitive. I’m just explaining my outlook. As far as having different difficulty modes to allow for players who use a slower interface (whether by choice or disability), I’m all for it as long as ANet considers it feasible in terms of development time/resources. Obviously, they always have to weigh how many players would benefit vs. how much time/resources it would cost.

A disability is something that people have to go around to find an answer for it, you can’t launch a product for the minority, it’s not profitable.
That aside, I was referring to people who take like 3 seconds every time they gotta click a 1-2-3 skill…
By the way I play FFXIV but with a controller, I tried it on GW2 with an Xpadder and action camera ON, but I don’t like the fact that I can’t control the inventory without moving my mouse or the big quantity of AoE ground targets

Excelsior.

I am also solo and except for that last mission in Orr that required a party, I have had no trouble so far. The only frustration is the AI, when literally 25 enemies gang up on you while the NPC around are basically just idling. It worked eventually, but still…

Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497:

I’ve had a problem with most of the story missions for HoT because I was in zerk’s gear, kitten the people who say use zerks by the way. You’re just bad if you die in zerks… no the lot of you are being unrealistic because I know for a FACT you’re not getting out of that clean. Otherwise you wouldn’t hear people complaining so much about pocket raptors and mushrooms.

Lots of high damage mobs and AOE fields, can easily get one shotted by bosses. Or get hit with some unusually long chains of CC so you can’t do kitten.

When I swapped to something Like marauders that could stay a little healthier when getting swarmed by a bunch of high damage mobs… it got a lot easier.

You could do it in zerks and not die. But it’s boring because it requires you to play safer by taking a couple at a time.

Anyways… Season 3 and HoT is not friendly to anyone who is squishy as heck. Get some vitality or toughness on you.

I see more people dying because they try to run through pocket raptors while ignoring them. Just about every enemy has at least one mechanic which makes fighting them easier. For example, you can potentially avoid all damage from those veteran vinetooths in AB by simply running through them to behind them at the proper time. In most cases, you’ll only take damage from the first swing.