Guild Wars 2

Marthkus.4615:

serenke.4806:

I understand that people like certain play styles and usually a group can carry one, two, sometimes three “play how i want” players. But generally the actually good players don’t mind because they might just not even feel a difference whether you are there or not (you are probably slowing them down). So you are not putting the blame where it belongs.

There seems to be an odd assumption that those critical of elitism are running non-meta builds or jumping into zerker pugs with nomads gear.

Not at all. I even pointed out that you should not blame the stupid meta but the people in the lfg.

On the other hand OP specifically stated he was running a d/d elementalist which you should really try to avoid at the moment.

Akikaze.1307:

And this topic is why I never bother running dungeons in GW2. I love running instances/dungeons in other mmorpgs. Dungeons ain’t even timed compared to other MMO where time ranking might determine loots. Yet people make it all competitive that extra few minutes to getting their gold. The design is forgiving, unfortunately GW2 players make playing it unforgiving with certain mindsets.

Actually every mmo has a best way of running instances and every group in any mmo will want to do instances as painless and quick as possible. There is simply no need to make something take longer – unless you are doing a fun 5-necro run in CoE just for the sake of it.

Pugging in this game is a gamble.

If you play solo (ie. don’t have many people on your friends list, aren’t in a guild with like minded people) and choose to pug dungeons, you can’t really complain about the random nature of the people you encounter.

If you pug content in this game, you either accept that pugging is a gamble and continue to pug knowing that, or you can build up your friends list or join a guild with like minded people and stop pugging. It’s pretty simple.

Marthkus.4615:

Harper.4173:

Marthkus.4615:

Aberrant.6749:

Marthkus.4615:

Aberrant.6749:

Marthkus.4615:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Marthkus.4615:

You don’t get to just ban classes regardless of LFG entry. Its why zerk pugs are seen as people of questionable character.

Oh? Why CAN’T I ban classes based on my LFG entry? Why are YOU entitled to come and ruin MY experience and the experience of others who want to play my way by not reading the LFG?

This is why non-reading leeches are seen as people of questionable character.

How dare people be intolerant of my intolerance! <- You

You’re not asking for tolerance by joining a speed run as a non-speed runner. You’re demanding to be accepted into that community without adhering to the rules of that community. They already tolerate your casual runs by not trying to get your type of party banned.

These threads always sounds like 2 kids fighting in the back of a car.

Just stay on your side or I swear to dwayna I’ll turn this kitten car around right now.

If you think certain classes can’t speed run then you not only lack understanding of game, you are being a terrible player for any community/meta/pug/guild/run.

So you’re still just refusing to adhere to the rules of whatever community, k. It’s unreasonable for you to think a community like that would accept you. If you don’t want to be accepted by that community, then there is no problem. It’s only when a person that doesn’t adhere to the rules of a community demands to be accepted into that community that there are problems.

Telling other people how they wish to play together is bad doesn’t do anything productive. Let people play how they wish as long as they are not trolling or harassing.

Banning classes is not OK. Those kind of people do not need to be off my block list.

You might as well ask for no black skin toons in your LFG. It’s not ok.

You do realize that those classes are being excluded for a real reason yes?
You can’t really deny that most BB rangers you meet in this game are not hardcore farmers.
If they were they wouldn’t be BB rangers. So if they’re BB rangers why would I want them in my party if my goal is farming?

You are saying particular rangers aren’t for your group. I’m saying you can’t with good character or understanding of the game say ALL rangers are not for your group.

And you are right. I have a good understanding of the game and know that not ALL rangers are bad for my group. Just the majority of them – based on personal experience somewhere in the 70-80% range of them are bad for my group.
So for all intent and purposes and in order to save time I’m not really going to filter through all the rangers just because I might find 1 in 5 that’s good. That’s a choice I can make and feel comfortable with.

People already know about rangers being unfavored in dungeon content -a farmer type person would have stopped bringing in a ranger to dungeons long ago (because he wants to get farming fast not swap out 20 parties before he finds one that he can go with) so the more time passes the less chances a player on a ranger might be a farmer like myself.

So yes – with the odds explained like that there’s very little reason for me to start taking on rangers since they’re not likely to be good for my party and highly unlikely to be farmers.

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Harper.4173:

Marthkus.4615:

Aberrant.6749:

Marthkus.4615:

Aberrant.6749:

Marthkus.4615:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Marthkus.4615:

You don’t get to just ban classes regardless of LFG entry. Its why zerk pugs are seen as people of questionable character.

Oh? Why CAN’T I ban classes based on my LFG entry? Why are YOU entitled to come and ruin MY experience and the experience of others who want to play my way by not reading the LFG?

This is why non-reading leeches are seen as people of questionable character.

How dare people be intolerant of my intolerance! <- You

You’re not asking for tolerance by joining a speed run as a non-speed runner. You’re demanding to be accepted into that community without adhering to the rules of that community. They already tolerate your casual runs by not trying to get your type of party banned.

These threads always sounds like 2 kids fighting in the back of a car.

Just stay on your side or I swear to dwayna I’ll turn this kitten car around right now.

If you think certain classes can’t speed run then you not only lack understanding of game, you are being a terrible player for any community/meta/pug/guild/run.

So you’re still just refusing to adhere to the rules of whatever community, k. It’s unreasonable for you to think a community like that would accept you. If you don’t want to be accepted by that community, then there is no problem. It’s only when a person that doesn’t adhere to the rules of a community demands to be accepted into that community that there are problems.

Telling other people how they wish to play together is bad doesn’t do anything productive. Let people play how they wish as long as they are not trolling or harassing.

Banning classes is not OK. Those kind of people do not need to be off my block list.

You might as well ask for no black skin toons in your LFG. It’s not ok.

You do realize that those classes are being excluded for a real reason yes?
You can’t really deny that most BB rangers you meet in this game are not hardcore farmers.
If they were they wouldn’t be BB rangers. So if they’re BB rangers why would I want them in my party if my goal is farming?

You are saying particular rangers aren’t for your group. I’m saying you can’t with good character or understanding of the game say ALL rangers are not for your group.

Harper isn’t saying all BB rangers aren’t good enough for farming dungeon groups.

Harper is saying that there are enough bad BB rangers that have tried to pass themselves off as farming dungeon players that the chances of it being a good BB ranger when one joins a party is too low. So Harper just kicks, because 99.9% of the time, the BB ranger falls in the bad category. And figures the true farmers or those wanting to be farmers will figure out why and correct the issue before trying again.

Correct and exactly so – i wish I had seen this sooner and could have used it instead of typing it out above

Seera.5916:

Why is it so bad that players who wish to farm dungeons play with others who have the same desire to the same degree? Why should players who wish to farm dungeons have to play with others who are not farming dungeons just because kicking them would be viewed as “classist”?

Sadly because in the age of neo-liberalism nobody is free to do anything anymore unless you include everybody. You can see this in social trends and you can see people trying to push this here.

It’s no longer ok to just want to play your way, with similarly minded people and have a good gaming experience. If your experience doesn’t include people who consider themselves “oppressed” you’re evil.

It’s a sad and unfortunate state of the game when people start demanding that although your goals are COMPLETELY different and your methods and COMPLETELY different you should be forced to have them along just because they want to come along with you regardless of what you might have to say on that topic.

Marthkus.4615:

Ashen.2907:

Marthkus.4615:

I can say putting “no rangers” in LFG is toxic

And one can say that it is toxic to call others toxic for choosing to play as they see fit with others of similar taste.

Telling other people there CLASS choice was wrong is toxic. It’s both unfair and shows an incorrect understanding of the game.

And I say that with a full Zoja’s meta warrior as my PvE main.

Nobody is saying their class is wrong. I’m saying they – the players are wrong because they’re not in it to farm.
Their objectives aren’t MY objectives. Why? Because if they were they wouldn’t be on that unfavored class.

The class is not the reason they’re not getting taken along – it is only the indicator of the real issue – they are not there to farm. And if they’re not there to farm why would I take them on my farming run?

Tigaseye.2047:

Anet just need to finally wake up and add a random queue system.

It’s 2015, for goodness sake…

Then, people will get what they get and if they don’t like that, they can make/join guilds with likeminded people and run their pedantic, uptight hearts out with them.

Yes so both groups can now get paired together randomly and then can kick and harass themselves endlessly until one group leaves and the other has the party and the dungeon.
Then people will get what they get and when it isn’t what they wanted they’ll start verbally abusing each other just like people do ALL THE TIME in ANY ENVIRONMENT.

If people weren’t lazy and made their own groups we wouldn’t have this issue now. The fact that we do have it proves that a LOT of people are incapable of making their own groups with similarly minded people.

Taking choice away from players is NEVER a good thing.

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Your elitist is a caricatured portrait of “The farmer”. The farmer is a part of the hardcore – as you said.
Highly efficient he enjoys earning rewards to buy new skins with and does everything in his power to get as much loot as possible.
Seeks out other players who want the same thing and excludes players that don’t since he doesn’t have time to mess around and since wasting time ruins his game experience.
Kicks certain classes because experience has shown they’re most of the times a liability (BB rangers) and kicks non-zerkers because he’s there for the fast farm not to role play or watch dungeon cutscenes.
Kicks you for being low AP because it’s not a teaching run and higher AP has a better chance of finding an experienced player. Not full proof but better.

This is exactly the type of player that Anet shouldn’t cater to.

Not only do they ruin the game for any other type of player that, probably normally accidentally, crosses their path; but they also make Anet next-to-no money, as they “earn” gold too fast to to ever need to buy gems.

Making Anet no money directly might be OK, if they made the other players they interacted with happier and more likely to stick with the game (and open their wallets); but when, in actual fact, the reverse is true…

So, thinking like a business person here, this is the type of player I would refuse to support, if I were them.

I’ve spent hundreds of dollars on the gemstore already. You are sadly mistaken.

You assume I farm everything – which I do – but everything I get on the gem store I buy with real cash to support the company that makes the game.
The fact that you feel you can earn gold too fast to even need gems proves how little you understand the gold to gem ratios.

If you were a business person – with your line of thinking – you would soon find yourself bankrupt since you’re very capable of making fully unfunded assumptions.

Harper.4173:

Seera.5916:

Why is it so bad that players who wish to farm dungeons play with others who have the same desire to the same degree? Why should players who wish to farm dungeons have to play with others who are not farming dungeons just because kicking them would be viewed as “classist”?

Sadly because in the age of neo-liberalism nobody is free to do anything anymore unless you include everybody. You can see this in social trends and you can see people trying to push this here.

I think the term you’re looking for is more along the lines of neoprogressive. Neoliberals are the economic libertarian, “leave me and my private corporation alone” types of folks. Pretty much the exact people saying they should be free to specify who they want in a group and others should just join one that is more their speed.

Not sure if that will jive with people’s actual political compasses but still…

Marthkus.4615:

Behellagh.1468:

Then be clear in your LFG comment. Also if it take 50 minutes to run inefficiently when it takes 30 to run efficiently then spending more than 20 minutes vetting players is silly. It’s like cruising the parking lot for a close spot for your health club because the extra 50 yards to walk is so tiring.

Well too be fair. Arah path 4 takes like 1.5 hours in a good but non meta group. 40 minutes for a meta group, or well over 4 hours cycling through various people as attempts to “speed run” fail.

That leaves A LOT of time for vetting before negative returns.

EDIT: Interesting to see that some people are willing to admit that they are willing to take LONGER to finish a dungeon as long as they can exclude players.

Because sometimes it’s preferable to be with 5 meta players and just know everyone will be on point and you’ll have a fun, relaxing run with no wipes, no problems and no hold-ups that’ll take 20 minutes even if you have to wait 10-15 minutes for it when the alternative is to have a 30 minutes wipefest with non-meta players that don’t listen, don’t know what to do and can hardly play the game.

Because for some of us playing the content a certain way is enjoyable and getting wiped or having to res someone off the floor 20 times per dungeon isn’t.

TL:DR – because playing with non-meta players is less enjoyable to meta players.

I personally like what they did in Age of Conan. You CANNOT complete raids if you don’t have members of ALL classes. There are no useless professions. And speed runs are impossible.

serenke.4806:

Akikaze.1307:

And this topic is why I never bother running dungeons in GW2. I love running instances/dungeons in other mmorpgs. Dungeons ain’t even timed compared to other MMO where time ranking might determine loots. Yet people make it all competitive that extra few minutes to getting their gold. The design is forgiving, unfortunately GW2 players make playing it unforgiving with certain mindsets.

Actually every mmo has a best way of running instances and every group in any mmo will want to do instances as painless and quick as possible. There is simply no need to make something take longer – unless you are doing a fun 5-necro run in CoE just for the sake of it.

Except if you don’t want to swap out equipment, profession, runes, skills, traits, etc. I’m playing cause I enjoy playing. You make it seem like it’s a chore you want to get out of the way as fast as possible. “Ah geez, do I have to run AC1P.”

But it is a chore. I’m playing because I enjoy legendary weapons for example but getting them is sadly a chore.
You have to do a TON of dungeons and other stuff in order to get your gold and make your weapon.

Some people enjoy just playing the content – I did too – first 100 runs of AC were fine. After the 300th though you get pretty tired of it and you’re not going to “enjoy it”. You are still going to enjoy the 1.5 gold at the end but you’re going to try to make the rest of it take as little as possible.

Look at FOTM – do I enjoy the ascended chests? Sure – especially with the update to ascended.
Do I enjoy fractal skins? Absolutely – I love some of them and still don’t have them all.

Do I enjoy doing swamp for the millionth time or jumping all the platforms in the Uncategorized fractals? No. But I have to if I want my fractal weapon skins.
It’s that simple really.

If I stop doing FOTM I stop having a chance to get my Fractal Mace.
I had to do FOTM for 8 months straight doing a minimum of 1 and a maximum of 3 runs per day almost every day ( I’d say at least 5 days a week) in order to get my fractal longbow.

Yes it is a chore but there’s nothing you can do about it.

If we would have had more updates, more content added maybe we wouldn’t be so burned out on the current content but sadly that’s not the case.

Behellagh.1468:

Then be clear in your LFG comment. Also if it take 50 minutes to run inefficiently when it takes 30 to run efficiently then spending more than 20 minutes vetting players is silly. It’s like cruising the parking lot for a close spot for your health club because the extra 50 yards to walk is so tiring.

I disagree that it’s inherently silly. I find it totally reasonable that some players would rather spend 20m watching a video while making a better party rather than spend 20 extra mins dealing with a group that would take 20m longer to do a run.

There’s no excuse to be a jerk just because you are bored with the content. And no, I never join speedruns on principle, nor do I support trolling speedrun groups by not following their meta (or approximate idea of it, in some cases.)

I respect the need for some players to farm as fast as possible for a skin, but one could do it without resorting to calling other “bads” for not following the Meta (or judging a player by the gear they use, as if meta-rules applied somehow to those who don’t care about them); one of my biggest pet peeves is whenever people refer as others with the pejorative “play how you wants” (as if anyone didn’t play how they wanted, meta or not.) This human extreme competitiveness in which it’s OK to put down those that aren’t supposedly “good enough” is awful-this isn’t a business or even a basketball game.

Kudos to all of those who are respectful speedrunners and don’t care about what others use, happily enjoying their farming runs with guildies/friends/like-minded players. If you are good, you know it-no need to insult those who don’t share your playstyle views.

Behellagh.1468:

serenke.4806:

Akikaze.1307:

And this topic is why I never bother running dungeons in GW2. I love running instances/dungeons in other mmorpgs. Dungeons ain’t even timed compared to other MMO where time ranking might determine loots. Yet people make it all competitive that extra few minutes to getting their gold. The design is forgiving, unfortunately GW2 players make playing it unforgiving with certain mindsets.

Actually every mmo has a best way of running instances and every group in any mmo will want to do instances as painless and quick as possible. There is simply no need to make something take longer – unless you are doing a fun 5-necro run in CoE just for the sake of it.

Except if you don’t want to swap out equipment, profession, runes, skills, traits, etc. I’m playing cause I enjoy playing. You make it seem like it’s a chore you want to get out of the way as fast as possible. “Ah geez, do I have to run AC1P.”

I’ve even specifically pointed out in my previous post that there is fun in doing these dungeons when everyone in your party is doing their job so there are no hiccups. It’s a chore if you are doing AC P1 with a party that takes 30 minutes to kill the queen spider.

Star Ace.5207:

There’s no excuse to be a jerk just because you are bored with the content. And no, I never join speedruns on principle, nor do I support trolling speedrun groups by not following their meta (or approximate idea of it, in some cases.)

I respect the need for some players to farm as fast as possible for a skin, but one could do it without resorting to calling other “bads” for not following the Meta (or judging a player by the gear they use, as if meta-rules applied somehow to those who don’t care about them); one of my biggest pet peeves is whenever people refer as others with the pejorative “play how you wants” (as if anyone didn’t play how they wanted, meta or not.) This human extreme competitiveness in which it’s OK to put down those that aren’t supposedly “good enough” is awful-this isn’t a business or even a basketball game.

Kudos to all of those who are respectful speedrunners and don’t care about what others use, happily enjoying their farming runs with guildies/friends/like-minded players. If you are good, you know it-no need to insult those who don’t share your playstyle views.

I would have just said there is no reason to bash anyone without seeming to imply that speed runners are just bored with the content.

I see nothing wrong with asking to see gear. If you’re joining a full zerk speed run and you don’t have it, they aren’t jerks for kicking, the player joining either didn’t read the LFG (their bad) or were trying to join a party where they knew they wouldn’t be wanted (again their bad). Heck if you get kicked for whatever reason, you just didn’t fit their criteria. There is no inherent reason to take offense at it.

Wanting fast, smooth runs doesn’t make them extremely competitive.

Heck, even if they are being somewhat competitive and getting a party in LFG there is nothing wrong with that either (it would be VERY rare to see some one “extremely competitive” using LFG in the first place). I would suggest that it would be more easily done with other methods, but I understand that some times the people you regularly run with can’t always be available. I agree they shouldn’t be doing any name calling though.

No one should be trash talking anyone else for their playstyle. If you don’t have fun playing whatever way, then don’t play that way. As long as you’re with people who want to play that way, there should be no problems.

Aberrant.6749:

Behellagh.1468:

Then be clear in your LFG comment. Also if it take 50 minutes to run inefficiently when it takes 30 to run efficiently then spending more than 20 minutes vetting players is silly. It’s like cruising the parking lot for a close spot for your health club because the extra 50 yards to walk is so tiring.

I disagree that it’s inherently silly. I find it totally reasonable that some players would rather spend 20m watching a video while making a better party rather than spend 20 extra mins dealing with a group that would take 20m longer to do a run.

Yes, it’s inherently silly, because they are treating the game like a job they dislike.

Worrying about exactly how much gold per minute they’re making and not even including the admin time, of vetting other players, in their calculations.

That is silly, in more ways than one.

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Your elitist is a caricatured portrait of “The farmer”. The farmer is a part of the hardcore – as you said.
Highly efficient he enjoys earning rewards to buy new skins with and does everything in his power to get as much loot as possible.
Seeks out other players who want the same thing and excludes players that don’t since he doesn’t have time to mess around and since wasting time ruins his game experience.
Kicks certain classes because experience has shown they’re most of the times a liability (BB rangers) and kicks non-zerkers because he’s there for the fast farm not to role play or watch dungeon cutscenes.
Kicks you for being low AP because it’s not a teaching run and higher AP has a better chance of finding an experienced player. Not full proof but better.

This is exactly the type of player that Anet shouldn’t cater to.

Not only do they ruin the game for any other type of player that, probably normally accidentally, crosses their path; but they also make Anet next-to-no money, as they “earn” gold too fast to to ever need to buy gems.

Making Anet no money directly might be OK, if they made the other players they interacted with happier and more likely to stick with the game (and open their wallets); but when, in actual fact, the reverse is true…

So, thinking like a business person here, this is the type of player I would refuse to support, if I were them.

I’ve spent hundreds of dollars on the gemstore already. You are sadly mistaken.

You assume I farm everything – which I do – but everything I get on the gem store I buy with real cash to support the company that makes the game.
The fact that you feel you can earn gold too fast to even need gems proves how little you understand the gold to gem ratios.

If you were a business person – with your line of thinking – you would soon find yourself bankrupt since you’re very capable of making fully unfunded assumptions.

You may say that, but I am basing this analysis on what I have, frequently, heard other people say.

That they can (and do), basically, fully fund the game (including all gem purchases) based on their dungeon and fractal runs.

A lot of people openly boast about doing this.

Just because you may not do it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

Akikaze.1307:

And this topic is why I never bother running dungeons in GW2.

There’s like 0.01% of the population that come onto forums, of those this topic has both pro and con viewpoints on dungeon running.

I’ve been joining and leading dungeon runs since beta and of course there have been memorable runs for both good and bad reasons but generally a pug run is really vanilla, most people get round most of the time in a good time.
If someone gets lost (happens to me all the time in AC runs..) someone goes back for them.
I was on one pug that spent ten minutes getting up that one bit in CoF P3 once.. and nobody complained, it was actually funny it got so silly. Equally the bit before it.. the defend.. I once spent 5 minutes on that and everyone gave up because we simply couldn’t do it. I went back in with a different team and did it with no problems, no deaths.

tl;dr there really isn’t that much to complain about in my experience. If you suck or your experience sucks, there is actually a lot of valuable advice in this thread on how to have a good time.

Tigaseye.2047:

Aberrant.6749:

Behellagh.1468:

Then be clear in your LFG comment. Also if it take 50 minutes to run inefficiently when it takes 30 to run efficiently then spending more than 20 minutes vetting players is silly. It’s like cruising the parking lot for a close spot for your health club because the extra 50 yards to walk is so tiring.

I disagree that it’s inherently silly. I find it totally reasonable that some players would rather spend 20m watching a video while making a better party rather than spend 20 extra mins dealing with a group that would take 20m longer to do a run.

Yes, it’s inherently silly, because they are treating the game like a job they dislike.

Worrying about exactly how much gold per minute they’re making and not even including the admin time, of vetting other players, in their calculations.

That is silly, in more ways than one.

To be fair, isn’t it their right to play GW2 as a job, even if you wouldn’t ever do that yourself? Just avoid them-some of them may be having genuine fun while playing efficiently, even if that would never be the case for you (or me, for that matter.)

I think JPs are silly, but have no qualms against those who absolute adore them (though I dislike when ANet makes too many regular areas JP-like, to satiate those players.) Jump away; just don’t force me do the darn things. All things have a right to grow.

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Anet just need to finally wake up and add a random queue system.

It’s 2015, for goodness sake…

Then, people will get what they get and if they don’t like that, they can make/join guilds with likeminded people and run their pedantic, uptight hearts out with them.

Yes so both groups can now get paired together randomly and then can kick and harass themselves endlessly until one group leaves and the other has the party and the dungeon.
Then people will get what they get and when it isn’t what they wanted they’ll start verbally abusing each other just like people do ALL THE TIME in ANY ENVIRONMENT.

If people weren’t lazy and made their own groups we wouldn’t have this issue now. The fact that we do have it proves that a LOT of people are incapable of making their own groups with similarly minded people.

Taking choice away from players is NEVER a good thing.

You and I are, clearly, never going to agree on this, Harper.

The whole idea is that, if you had any very specific/rigid requirements, you wouldn’t use the queuing system.

Or, if you did, you would just have to relax your requirements (at least temporarily).

That would actually be good for everyone involved; especially the people with the too-rigid requirements.

People need to realise that they cant and shouldn’t try to control everything around them.

Learn to enjoy the chaos, or run with your own guild.

Plus, if you had any kind of understanding of human psychology, you would realise that it isn’t, necessarily, laziness to not want to make your own groups; especially as a new player.

…and that, once people feel excluded and over-pressurised, that feeling tends to endure, even long after they are past the “noob” stage.

That isn’t good for the future of the game.

Tigaseye.2047:

Yes, it’s inherently silly, because they are treating the game like a job they dislike.

Worrying about exactly how much gold per minute they’re making and not even including the admin time, of vetting other players, in their calculations.

That is silly, in more ways than one.

Just because you feel that playing in such a way to be like a job does not mean that other players feel the same way. What you enjoy in a game is entirely subjective.

If they would prefer to wait to get a better party and spend that waiting time doing other things (like watching a show, doing homework, whatever) I wouldn’t say they are worrying about how much gold per min. they are getting. They are just choosing to do different things with their time.

Trying to justify one style of play over another style of play is silly.

Tigaseye.2047:

You may say that, but I am basing this analysis on what I have, frequently, heard other people say.

That they can (and do), basically, fully fund the game (including all gem purchases) based on their dungeon and fractal runs.

A lot of people openly boast about doing this.

Just because you may not do it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

What you hear other people say is a poor way to come to a conclusion. Only A-net really knows who is spending what.

Tigaseye.2047:

People need to realise that they cant and shouldn’t try to control everything around them.

This holds true for both casuals and speed runners.

Star Ace.5207:

Tigaseye.2047:

Aberrant.6749:

Behellagh.1468:

Then be clear in your LFG comment. Also if it take 50 minutes to run inefficiently when it takes 30 to run efficiently then spending more than 20 minutes vetting players is silly. It’s like cruising the parking lot for a close spot for your health club because the extra 50 yards to walk is so tiring.

I disagree that it’s inherently silly. I find it totally reasonable that some players would rather spend 20m watching a video while making a better party rather than spend 20 extra mins dealing with a group that would take 20m longer to do a run.

Yes, it’s inherently silly, because they are treating the game like a job they dislike.

Worrying about exactly how much gold per minute they’re making and not even including the admin time, of vetting other players, in their calculations.

That is silly, in more ways than one.

To be fair, isn’t it their right to play GW2 as a job, even if you wouldn’t ever do that yourself? Just avoid them-some of them may be having genuine fun while playing efficiently, even if that would never be the case for you (or me, for that matter.)

I think JPs are silly, but have no qualms against those who absolute adore them (though I dislike when ANet makes too many regular areas JP-like, to satiate those players.) Jump away; just don’t force me do the darn things. All things have a right to grow.

Well, it would make it a lot easier for new players to avoid these types of players, if there was a queuing system.

Otherwise, they tend to run into them, sooner or later.

As even if they have enough brains/experience of MMOs to read the warning signs, they still end up in supposedly “everyone welcome” groups, where the leader has taken it upon himself to teach them, every step of the way, how to speedrun and refuses to join in, until they do exactly as he says.

Either that, or they join a group with a new friend and he, or she, joins a speedrun…

These are not good early experiences.

If you wanted a stagnating game, full of inflexible jobsworths only interested in gold and skins and completely off-putting to most new players, this is exactly how you would design it.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

LFG (normal abbrevations:):

1. Open/Anyone welcome
   Open instance no requirents
2. l80
   Level 80 character required
3. l80 EXP
   Level 80 character and experience with the path/dungeon/event required
   This means a couple of dozen runs… not having done it twice. I know ppl who did AC and Arah since launch, having run over 1000+ full runs… they’ll notice anything.
   Expect to be kicked for truly stupid mistakes. (popping oozes in p1 AC is a nice filter…)
4. l80 ZERK
   Level 80 character and DPS gear required, Berzerker, in some cases Assassin’s
5. l80 META
   Level 80 character with dungeon meta build required. DPS only.
6. Speedrun
   Just make sure you have dungeon gear and dungeon food and you know what your doing, else ppl leave OR kick, generally the fastest runs, Not always using Meta, just use your head, switch traits and weapons on the run: focus is on maximizing DPS through any means, including +90% health buffs and so on, so support is immensely important, in NO WAY is this just DPS-ing. it is WAY different from l80 zerk meta

1. P 1,2,3,4 (P1,P2,P3, P1+3, FW/UP(=TA))
   Path requests number is relevant path from top from path selection. Only TA has a different selection. not clicking the correct path will break the party.

---

1. DPS
   DPS builds required, no condition builds
2. Ping (Gear)
   Ping Gear, else kick, very subjective, if they do not like your gear you’ll be kicked as well, generally they check: dungeon sigils, runes and stats
3. Quickrun
   Skip All non essentials
4. Full Run
   All paths, generally this does also mean if you do not have appropriate gear and food you’ll be alone after the first path.
5. Firsttime (1st)
   Person requesting has never done the dungeon, expect him to watch the movies and be inexperienced. and unaware of gear and foods
6. (Kill) ALL or NoSkip
   no skipping, just wipe the dungeon clean.
7. Only ? (race/class/proffesion/and so on)
   request for something specific
8. ?K AP
   Minimum AP (ppl stated at prelaunch could have 10-15K without any AP farming, it’s generaslly meant to filter starters, but this is the most useless selection criterium in LFG)
9. Story
   Story mode dungeon —>OPEN (rarely seen with l80 tag) respect ppl watching movies. (in case of fastrun/speedrun pls do not watch movies and expect ppl to rush through,)
10. Dungeon Tour: often refferring to the “night” run CoF 1,2, SE 1,3, COE Full, AC full, TA FW/Up (and sometimes ARAH (1,)3(,4)), Speedrun gear preferred (sigil night and force), (undead and force for Arah) as well as apropriate foods.)

---

Things can be combined:

• l80 Fullrun ZERK Meta 3k AP
• Open Only below l80 1st
• Speedrun Ping

In my experience l80 exp is most forgiving as long as you do not watch movies (if you are experience you should have seen ’m already.)

Please respect the requirements stated, NOT doing so could be resulting in a toxic environment not fun for all 5 involved.

That’s all nice and fancy, but most people don’t read LFG or they simply ignore it.

Aberrant.6749:

This holds true for both casuals and speed runners.

It does indeed, but most established players already have the luxury of being in several guilds, most of which will (presumably) be full of people who think like them.

They can easily run with any one of those guilds, if they have very rigid requirements.

Whereas, newer players and (to a certain extent) more casual players, are often on their own.

Not only that, but (as I have already said) newer players are far more likely to, accidentally, join the wrong groups and/or be too shy/inexperienced to want to form their own.

Therefore, the default setting should be queue and join an everything goes run.

I realise the compromise here may be to, also, allow the current list system to run alongside what would be the new queuing system and if so, then so be it.

serialkicker.5274:

That’s all nice and fancy, but most people don’t read LFG or they simply ignore it.

I don’t know about most, but it’s not rare for people to not read the LFG. That’s a problem that no one can really solve. All anyone can do is try their best to inform the others as far as what type of party it is.

Broom.2561:

I personally like what they did in Age of Conan. You CANNOT complete raids if you don’t have members of ALL classes. There are no useless professions. And speed runs are impossible.

Unless each and every single dungeon/raid in Age of Conan is a timed tower defense game that can only ever be completed after you survive for 10 minute exactly, then speed runs are possible. Because two runs will take a different time to complete and so people will try for the shortest possible time.

Heck, people made a speed run for Monopoly on the NES.

Tigaseye.2047:

Aberrant.6749:

This holds true for both casuals and speed runners.

It does indeed, but most established players already have the luxury of being in several guilds, most of which will (presumably) be full of people who think like them.

They can easily run with any one of those guilds, if they have very rigid requirements.

Whereas, newer players and (to a certain extent) more casual players, are often on their own.

Not only that, but (as I have already said) newer players are far more likely to, accidentally, join the wrong groups and/or be too shy/inexperienced to want to form their own.

Therefore, the default setting should be queue and join an everything goes run.

I realise the compromise here may be to, also, allow the current list system to run alongside what would be the new queuing system and if so, then so be it.

Anyone can join a guild and run with people like themselves. I constantly see advertisements in map chats for anyone welcome guilds. Casuals can just easily run with those guilds.

Learning to join what type of party isn’t rocket science. Even if I had never played a RPG before, I would be able to deduce that speed run =/= anyone welcome. They can wait for an anyone welcome party just as a speed runner can wait for a speed run. No need to try to force others to play how you wish to play.

All adding a queue would do is add to the problem. It would be tossing in players who want different types of runs together. Speed runners would need to kick out people until they get like minded people. Casuals would have players leaving the party and have to re-queue when speed runners joined and then left. It would just cause more frustration and resentment.

Tigaseye.2047:

Yes, it’s inherently silly, because they are treating the game like a job they dislike.
Worrying about exactly how much gold per minute they’re making and not even including the admin time, of vetting other players, in their calculations.
That is silly, in more ways than one.

And it is – because most of the things you have to do in this game to get things that you enjoy are incredibly tedious.

Look at my fractal longbow example above – 8 months of FOTM.

It’s not always about GPM – it’s also about play quality – playing with non-meta players if you’re a meta player is just an overall bad experience.

You may say that, but I am basing this analysis on what I have, frequently, heard other people say.
That they can (and do), basically, fully fund the game (including all gem purchases) based on their dungeon and fractal runs.
A lot of people openly boast about doing this.
Just because you may not do it, doesn’t mean it’s not happening.

Consider the following then.
A player that farms in a game is heavily invested in a game – and is more likely to spend money on it (be it expansions, gems or skins). Even if they’re not in a position where they can afford to spend money hardcore players that are heavily invested in a game are very prone to bring with them more friends and people they play with to the game they’re playing.

Because heavily invested players regardless of their capacity to spend or not -a core, loyal market of players is something everyone wants to have.

That they can (and do), basically, fully fund the game (including all gem purchases) based on their dungeon and fractal runs.

And even so Anet has ways to monetize them. Look at expansions (HOT) – you can’t fund that with in-game gold.

The fact that they are playing long hours keeps the in-game economy going. These are the people that farm mats, that buy expensive skins and so on.

Just because some people do it – doesn’t mean you can automatically assume all of them do.

Heavily invested players are always a benefit to the game. People that farm do more than just produce gold for themselves – they add to the game’s economy and keep areas alive.

Look at dungeons – dungeons were DEAD before the update that gave at least 1 gold as a reward at the end.
Without the crowd farming dungeons I doubt you could be able to find dungeon runs for most dungeons apart from the random dungeon title requirement.

What I’m saying is that as much as you and others dislike this – without those who do dungeons for farm dungeons would be dead. If you find that preferable then the solution is simple – remove the gold reward and see what happens.

Tigaseye.2047:

You and I are, clearly, never going to agree on this, Harper.

The whole idea is that, if you had any very specific/rigid requirements, you wouldn’t use the queuing system.

Or, if you did, you would just have to relax your requirements (at least temporarily).

That would actually be good for everyone involved; especially the people with the too-rigid requirements.

People need to realise that they cant and shouldn’t try to control everything around them.

Learn to enjoy the chaos, or run with your own guild.

Plus, if you had any kind of understanding of human psychology, you would realise that it isn’t, necessarily, laziness to not want to make your own groups; especially as a new player.

…and that, once people feel excluded and over-pressurised, that feeling tends to endure, even long after they are past the “noob” stage.

That isn’t good for the future of the game.

The problem is that whilst I might have rigid requirements I also don’t have the benefit of fixed hours so I can’t find a permanent team and schedule runs every day.
I feel free to advertise my way of playing on a LFG system and then if people are similar to me in means and objectives they can join me and we can have a good run.

If not they should simply ignore me and move on.I have nothing against anybody playing their way as long as they respect my right to play my way.

I don’t see how relaxing my requirements can be good for me – allowing people that don’t fit in with my objectives, play style and methods will only cause conflict between us when invariably we’ll want different things.
Conflict costs time which I don’t have to give to those people.

People need to realise that they cant and shouldn’t try to control everything around them.

I’m not trying to control the game – you are – I’m trying to control my 5 man party. That’s not everything around me.
Also – people deal with lack of control their entire lives – in our struggle as a species we’ve constantly attempted to create scenarios in which we have more control over the random nature of our surrounding world.
I don’t think people want less control. I don’t think they should want less control or that they will like it.
In a digital man-made environment I don’t see why we should have less control over our decisions instead of more control.

If people learned to enjoy chaos we’d still be stuck in caves to be perfectly honest.

Plus, if you had any kind of understanding of human psychology, you would realise that it isn’t, necessarily, laziness to not want to make your own groups; especially as a new player

I understand there’s difficulty but I also believe each individual has to rise against challenges and improve. Hiding behind other people constantly making LFGs isn’t the way.
When you cannot rely on others you must step up and strike out for yourself.

I agree that the exclusion aspect might not be good for the overall nature of the game – that’s why I’ve proposed a system of silent filters. Tick boxes – you tick them and only people that have them turned on can see your runs.
That way you don’t see and don’t interact with the people that don’t want to play your way and have less chance of causing exclusion-type incidents.

Tigaseye.2047:

Whereas, newer players and (to a certain extent) more casual players, are often on their own.

Not only that, but (as I have already said) newer players are far more likely to, accidentally, join the wrong groups and/or be too shy/inexperienced to want to form their own.

Therefore, the default setting should be queue and join an everything goes run.

I realise the compromise here may be to, also, allow the current list system to run alongside what would be the new queuing system and if so, then so be it.

And this is entirely on them. New players and inexperienced players can put in the time and effort to rise above their current situation.
Being on their own isn’t the byproduct of anything but their own actions. If they want to stop being alone joining a guild is an EASY step to do.
There are guild advertisements in EVERY major city. Just whisper someone and say “I want in a guild”. It is literally that easy.

Just because a players is new or lacks experience doesn’t mean the entire game and most importantly other players have to roll over for them.
We were all new once – it isn’t anything special.
Read, watch youtube, ask around and improve. It’s not some difficult task that’s impossible to achieve.

Also stating that new and inexperienced players are more important in a way than veterans is pretty much a bad way to go about it. Like I said before a veteran player can be very invested in a game – new players not so much.

So they should be equally important maybe – but in no case do I see it being a good move to cater to the new over the old players.

Therefore, the default setting should be queue and join an everything goes run.

And this can work on PAPER but people are people.
If a farming elitist gets queued up with 4 new players that want to watch cutscenes he might not be able to farm but that doesn’t mean he’ll accept this and move on.
Griefing is real and you can do it in non-reportabable ways.
Just spoil the ending for them. Or aggro more mobs than they can handle.

The reverse can happen when a non-speed clear player joins a SC party via random distribution. He can slow them and ruin their experience immensely.

Ultimately Anet want to give us a better and enjoyable playing experience – which will not happen if you bunch together people with different goals, expectations and methods.

Aberrant.6749:

So you’re still just refusing to adhere to the rules of whatever community, k. It’s unreasonable for you to think a community like that would accept you. If you don’t want to be accepted by that community, then there is no problem. It’s only when a person that doesn’t adhere to the rules of a community demands to be accepted into that community that there are problems.

If it’s a special community, then make a guild and a closed forum, so you don’t have to show up on LFG at all. Because now it seems that meta-speedrun is default, and everything else is a deviation… meaning you hijacked LFG for yourselves.

Halan.7931:

Aberrant.6749:

So you’re still just refusing to adhere to the rules of whatever community, k. It’s unreasonable for you to think a community like that would accept you. If you don’t want to be accepted by that community, then there is no problem. It’s only when a person that doesn’t adhere to the rules of a community demands to be accepted into that community that there are problems.

If it’s a special community, then make a guild and a closed forum, so you don’t have to show up on LFG at all. Because now it seems that meta-speedrun is default, and everything else is a deviation… meaning you hijacked LFG for yourselves.

If this is true and meta-speed run is the majority ( which it is not IMO) then you could see it as this being the natural state of things.
Nobody hijacked anything – it’s just what most people decided they wanted.

Tigaseye.2047:

the default setting should be queue and join an everything goes run.

The default setting is fine. Read the LFG text, make your own decision / group.

Marthkus.4615:

Players I run into:
1. High deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
2. High deeps players who don’t die but can’t solo the dungeon.
3. High deeps players who die all the time unless everyone is playing max deeps.
4. Mid deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
5. Mid deeps players who don’t die but can’t solo dungeon.
6. Mid deeps players who die all the time unless the boss dies fast.
7. Low deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
8. Low deeps players who don’t die and couldn’t solo the dungeon.
9. Low deeps player who die all the time and are basically a drain to the party.

Meta bullies are almost exclusively #3. They are noobs, but pretend they aren’t cause they have zerker gear. 1s and 2s are the kind of people willing to carry 6s, 8s, and 9s. I met someone who normally solos arah but was puging because that is more of a challenge. He was a bit elitist and meta, but he was still fun to play with because he wasn’t shouting at people.

More and more people are falling into the #1 category which makes puging very pleasant.

My war is full Zoja’s, but I don’t like the zerker meta, so I use her to climb fractals. Easy content like dungeons, I’ll bring my 4s, (odd thing to censor?) 5s, and 8s.

That is so unfair.

A meta ele, for example, HAS to be number 3. Eles are sitting ducks while channeling their devastating attacks, which they have to cast while still having 25 stacks of might. If the boss isnt dead by the end of the cast, chances are it already killed the other ele, or you. You can play it safe, time your casts and be conservative, but then you wont do top damage and most likely the boss will be dead by the time you even olace vulnerability on him

Aenesthesia.1697:

Marthkus.4615:

Players I run into:
1. High deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
2. High deeps players who don’t die but can’t solo the dungeon.
3. High deeps players who die all the time unless everyone is playing max deeps.
4. Mid deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
5. Mid deeps players who don’t die but can’t solo dungeon.
6. Mid deeps players who die all the time unless the boss dies fast.
7. Low deeps players who don’t die and could solo the dungeon.
8. Low deeps players who don’t die and couldn’t solo the dungeon.
9. Low deeps player who die all the time and are basically a drain to the party.

Meta bullies are almost exclusively #3. They are noobs, but pretend they aren’t cause they have zerker gear. 1s and 2s are the kind of people willing to carry 6s, 8s, and 9s. I met someone who normally solos arah but was puging because that is more of a challenge. He was a bit elitist and meta, but he was still fun to play with because he wasn’t shouting at people.

More and more people are falling into the #1 category which makes puging very pleasant.

My war is full Zoja’s, but I don’t like the zerker meta, so I use her to climb fractals. Easy content like dungeons, I’ll bring my 4s, (odd thing to censor?) 5s, and 8s.

That is so unfair.

A meta ele, for example, HAS to be number 3. Eles are sitting ducks while channeling their devastating attacks, which they have to cast while still having 25 stacks of might. If the boss isnt dead by the end of the cast, chances are it already killed the other ele, or you. You can play it safe, time your casts and be conservative, but then you wont do top damage and most likely the boss will be dead by the time you even olace vulnerability on him

I don’t agree with that 100%. Yes ellys can’t soak damage. If the group is stacking and others aren’t providing blinds, it’s up to you to use Sandstorm or Arcane Shield to get off a Meteor Shower; you must be self sustaining. This means you have to swap out Arcane Blast.

You’re probably better off starting your own group and mentioning in the description that anyone is allowed. Some want the most efficient run while others just want to have fun. If someone is harassing/bullying you, then report them. If they don’t want you because of your build/style, then leave the group. Everyone has their own way of playing.

I think it’s always great playing with others, regardless of their build, in dungeons as long as they don’t play horrible to the point where they’re bringing the team down. That isn’t really fun.

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Anet just need to finally wake up and add a random queue system.

It’s 2015, for goodness sake…

Then, people will get what they get and if they don’t like that, they can make/join guilds with likeminded people and run their pedantic, uptight hearts out with them.

Yes so both groups can now get paired together randomly and then can kick and harass themselves endlessly until one group leaves and the other has the party and the dungeon.
Then people will get what they get and when it isn’t what they wanted they’ll start verbally abusing each other just like people do ALL THE TIME in ANY ENVIRONMENT.

If people weren’t lazy and made their own groups we wouldn’t have this issue now. The fact that we do have it proves that a LOT of people are incapable of making their own groups with similarly minded people.

Taking choice away from players is NEVER a good thing.

You and I are, clearly, never going to agree on this, Harper.

The whole idea is that, if you had any very specific/rigid requirements, you wouldn’t use the queuing system.

Or, if you did, you would just have to relax your requirements (at least temporarily).

That would actually be good for everyone involved; especially the people with the too-rigid requirements.

People need to realise that they cant and shouldn’t try to control everything around them.

Learn to enjoy the chaos, or run with your own guild.

Plus, if you had any kind of understanding of human psychology, you would realise that it isn’t, necessarily, laziness to not want to make your own groups; especially as a new player.

…and that, once people feel excluded and over-pressurised, that feeling tends to endure, even long after they are past the “noob” stage.

That isn’t good for the future of the game.

But you’re the one trying to control everything around you, you’re the one trying to force zerker meta players to run with non-meta players who are going to ruin their experience. Maybe you should look in a mirror when saying you should let people play how they want.

Aberrant.6749:

serialkicker.5274:

That’s all nice and fancy, but most people don’t read LFG or they simply ignore it.

I don’t know about most, but it’s not rare for people to not read the LFG. That’s a problem that no one can really solve. All anyone can do is try their best to inform the others as far as what type of party it is.

True, those who get those in game phishing e-mails never read the “this is not from the GW2 team but a player” message before dashing to the forum to post a screenshot and include a transcribed phishing link.

Tigaseye.2047:

Harper.4173:

Tigaseye.2047:

Anet just need to finally wake up and add a random queue system.

It’s 2015, for goodness sake…

Then, people will get what they get and if they don’t like that, they can make/join guilds with likeminded people and run their pedantic, uptight hearts out with them.

Yes so both groups can now get paired together randomly and then can kick and harass themselves endlessly until one group leaves and the other has the party and the dungeon.
Then people will get what they get and when it isn’t what they wanted they’ll start verbally abusing each other just like people do ALL THE TIME in ANY ENVIRONMENT.

If people weren’t lazy and made their own groups we wouldn’t have this issue now. The fact that we do have it proves that a LOT of people are incapable of making their own groups with similarly minded people.

Taking choice away from players is NEVER a good thing.

You and I are, clearly, never going to agree on this, Harper.

The whole idea is that, if you had any very specific/rigid requirements, you wouldn’t use the queuing system.

Or, if you did, you would just have to relax your requirements (at least temporarily).

That would actually be good for everyone involved; especially the people with the too-rigid requirements.

People need to realise that they cant and shouldn’t try to control everything around them.

Learn to enjoy the chaos, or run with your own guild.

Plus, if you had any kind of understanding of human psychology, you would realise that it isn’t, necessarily, laziness to not want to make your own groups; especially as a new player.

…and that, once people feel excluded and over-pressurised, that feeling tends to endure, even long after they are past the “noob” stage.

That isn’t good for the future of the game.

Okay let’s let someone who have absolutely no idea how a nuclear reaction works handle a nuclear facility, because otherwise they’ll feel excluded.

Something a lot of us have to come to terms with is that we cannot control other players. We can’t control what they put in their lfg. We can’t control who joins our group. We can’t control who other people kick. We can’t control what other people say. We can’t control how other people play.

Does that mean LFG should be a random kitten-fest? Probably not. There can be order without control as long as mutual benefit comes about from the order. Do the zerker/meta/exp 8K+ AP groups benefit everyone else? No, all they do is inflate TP and gem price for everyone else. Do people who troll Zerker queue benefit everyone else? No, all we get there is spiteful meta-zerks trolling anyone welcomed groups and tons of other nonsense.

I don’t have a good answer to that dilemma. I can share some fun facts:
1. People can ping gear they don’t own.
2. Living story gave lots of AP while things like WvW or pure dungeon running give far less.
3. Many people have alt accounts that they dungeon on to get more dailies that will have less AP than their main one.
4. People can totally tell if you aren’t carrying your dps in a speedrun. Things can melt very fast.

Marthkus.4615:

Something a lot of us have to come to terms with is that we cannot control other players. We can’t control what they put in their lfg. We can’t control who joins our group. We can’t control who other people kick. We can’t control what other people say. We can’t control how other people play.

Does that mean LFG should be a random kitten-fest? Probably not. There can be order without control as long as mutual benefit comes about from the order. Do the zerker/meta/exp 8K+ AP groups benefit everyone else? No, all they do is inflate TP and gem price for everyone else. Do people who troll Zerker queue benefit everyone else? No, all we get there is spiteful meta-zerks trolling anyone welcomed groups and tons of other nonsense.

I don’t have a good answer to that dilemma. I can share some fun facts:
1. People can ping gear they don’t own.
2. Living story gave lots of AP while things like WvW or pure dungeon running give far less.
3. Many people have alt accounts that they dungeon on to get more dailies that will have less AP than their main one.
4. People can totally tell if you aren’t carrying your dps in a speedrun. Things can melt very fast.

1. While you can ping gear you don’t own, unless you are aware of the chat code system its hard to get it to ping with runes/sigils. (not impossible though)
2. Agreed, AP is a terrible indicator of skill. I run meta zerker and I would never use AP as an indicator.
3. Once again, agreed. I also have an alt account with only like 3k AP.
4. And yes, It is frustrating to see somebody not pulling any DPS because they are running staff of a Guardian for example. I understand some people want to play how they want but you’re not helping and you’re actually ruining the experience of 4 other players. People SHOULD play how they want… with like-minded players. If you know your play style and somebody elses don’t work together why would either of you want to play together? It just causes non-issues to become issues.

Sara…I understand how you feel. This is why I only do dungeon runs with guildmates.

This is a tough game when you play with the wrong people. Find the right ones

Taurondir.7698:

In the old days of PnP games with a live GM, you would never run the same adventure module twice with the same players.
I should not have to explain the reason why, because it’s glaring obvious.

We are made to run the exact same Dungeon hundreds of times in a computer MMO because there is (apparently) no easy way for ANet to make them more dynamic, which is in fact what should be happening. This would also then get people screaming because their easy “money making runs” are now more involved.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’d like more surprises in my Dungeons. Once the whole thing boils down to knowing where to stand, what order to press everything and what target order to burn things, why are people surprised we want to get it over and done as fast as possible with Zerg builds?

When I go on site to fix computers, I never know exactly what to expect, which means I have to bring a spread of tools and equipment. We are given a large set of tools, and then we find out we just needed one screwdriver. Every. Single. Time. This happens because we are always given the EXACT same problem, in EXACTLY the same Dungeons.

I think we need to address that first before we point fingers at all the people bringing screwdrivers.

PvE inherently loses its challenge factor once it is “solved”. There is always an optimal strategy for a static game.

So if you want the dungeons to be more dynamic and therefore challenging, Anet would need to make them procedurally generated and it would be a huge undertaking, especially if they wanted to make the result feel unique in a meaningful way every time.

I mean you can’t just generate a random maze with random enemy spawns who have random mechanics and behavior. That wouldn’t feel unique. It would feel like Diablo. Also, in such a game optimal strategies (builds) still happen.

I’m at the spot right now where all i need to finish my legendary is CoE runs but since I don’t use zerker nor do i feel comfortable using it it almost impossible to get a run. A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences. Now alot of ppl will tell me just to join a guild but lots of guilds do not want me since I cant play at a time when they do guild missions.

Silvercyclone.1462:

I’m at the spot right now where all i need to finish my legendary is CoE runs but since I don’t use zerker nor do i feel comfortable using it it almost impossible to get a run. A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences. Now alot of ppl will tell me just to join a guild but lots of guilds do not want me since I cant play at a time when they do guild missions.

If you’ve done CoE story, you can activate the CoE reward track in PvP and get your Knowledge Crystals that way.

Silvercyclone.1462:

I’m at the spot right now where all i need to finish my legendary is CoE runs but since I don’t use zerker nor do i feel comfortable using it it almost impossible to get a run. A week ago i was actually dropped from 10 parties in a row because i don’t have zerker or I wasn’t experiences. Now alot of ppl will tell me just to join a guild but lots of guilds do not want me since I cant play at a time when they do guild missions.

Literally pop open your LFG, navigate to the CoE section and type in “CoE exp 1-3 casual run”. Wait for party to fill and have fun.

This is the same non-issue we have with people who whine about 100% rep guilds. Don’t like them? Don’t join them. It is so simple it hurts that people make it an issue.

Frankly, gear set stats should be balanced against each other. If Stats were properly balanced, this wouldn’t be as much of an issue.

Edit: Some examples would probably be helpful. It should be really hard to finish content if you’re full glass (High Risk, High Reward), rewarding skilled players but punishing players who aren’t as skilled by still build glassy.

If you want to make a difference and stop gear elitism, then ANet needs to make it so that Glassy Gear sets clear runs quickly yet inconsistently and Tanky Gear sets clear runs more slowly yet more consistently.

As long as people can consistently and easily complete dungeons in glass gear without a lot of risk (or skill, for that matter), people are going to QQ about non-zerkers in their group.