Guild Wars 2

Seera.5916:

Is it really such a bad thing that people come up with ways to avoid the inevitable conflict if you try to force them to play together?

No not really. It’s probably why ANET has more or less abandoned their old dungeon content. Silver Waste farming is more efficient and does not exclude non-zerk players. That really only leaves competitive speed runs left for hardcore dungeon running, which excludes pugging.

Idk why people want to speed-run with pugs merely for the joy of speed-running. I guess badge grinding could be a reason? Surely that couldn’t sustain the scene we currently see? *shrugs

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Is it really such a bad thing that people come up with ways to avoid the inevitable conflict if you try to force them to play together?

No not really. It’s probably why ANET has more or less abandoned their old dungeon content. Silver Waste farming is more efficient and does not exclude non-zerk players. That really only leaves competitive speed runs left for hardcore dungeon running, which excludes pugging.

Idk why people want to speed-run with pugs merely for the joy of speed-running. I guess badge grinding could be a reason? Surely that couldn’t sustain the scene we currently see? *shrugs

The ones that want to truly speed run and expect to find players capable of speed runs are crazy for using the LFG. They aren’t going to have to the coordination down. The kind that comes from having played together for a while. The kind that comes from having a group set up that complements each other.

But those just looking for a quick, smooth, and efficient run, can easily find other like minded players in the LFG.

I don’t get why people like to watch baseball. To me, the sport is boring to watch. But it obviously is fun to other people for reasons I do not understand. And that they probably couldn’t put into words. But I don’t complain that they run baseball games on tv because I would rather watch the usually scheduled show instead.

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Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

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Marthkus.4615:

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How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

That’s why zerker players put Zerk/meta, ping gear, X AP, etc. etc in their LFG’s. And why PHIW’s put anyone welcome/no skip/no stack/full clear. So that they can play how THEY want to play and not how someone else wants to play. Which is likely not how that someone else wants to play because a compromise will very very rarely completely please every party involved.

Your extending the concept too far. “no skip/no stack/full clear” is as much against “play as you want” as a “zerker/meta/move-as-stack”. Everyone can’t “play as you want” if people are trying to dictate how other players play.

My prediction with HoT is that challenging group play will be on a map, while challenging instanced content will be solo. EDIT: Aside from new fractals.

Marthkus.4615:

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Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

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Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

That’s why zerker players put Zerk/meta, ping gear, X AP, etc. etc in their LFG’s. And why PHIW’s put anyone welcome/no skip/no stack/full clear. So that they can play how THEY want to play and not how someone else wants to play. Which is likely not how that someone else wants to play because a compromise will very very rarely completely please every party involved.

Your extending the concept too far. “no skip/no stack/full clear” is as much against “play as you want” as a “zerker/meta/move-as-stack”. Everyone can’t “play as you want” if people are trying to dictate how other players play.

My prediction with HoT is that challenging group play will be on a map, while challenging instanced content will be solo.

No, I’m not.

So the players who play zerk and wish to stack and skip are they not playing how they want to play? That someone is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to play that way?

I do not get why you have such an issue with players who do not want to play the way you want to play, labeling their LFG’s and enforcing their LFG’s so that they do not infringe on how others want to play. That they’re willing to wait to play how they want.

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

Marthkus.4615:

It’s amazing seeing people wonder how others could possibly have trouble tolerating their intolerance of playing with certain players they deem inferior.

Really all I needed to read.

If you can’t tolerate intolerance you have no room to judge. Nothing is more bullkitten than forced tolerance.

To you other’s words:
Paradox of tolerance

“The paradox of tolerance” refers to the act of being intolerant of intolerance. It is a term generally used by opponents of pluralism to criticize advocates of toleration. The argument goes something like this:

1. Tolerance means accepting others with differing views/lifestyles/shoe sizes
2. Some people do not accept others with differing views/lifestyles/shoe sizes
3. Those people are intolerant
4. Not accepting intolerant people is itself intolerant
5. Therefore, tolerance is impossible

This argument may be fallacious . Here’s why: This assumes that totally uncritical tolerance is desirable. There’s a distinction between being tolerant and blind moral relativism, and it is perfectly reasonable to say that it is not desirable to be perfectly tolerant of every single thing. Extremism rarely bodes well for anybody.
Karl Popper explains:
“”Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them…We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant."

All I can say is I completely disagree. You can promote tolerance without demonizing those who are intolerant.

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Marthkus.4615:

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Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

How is it not hypocritical?

Since you addressed nothing in my post, I’ll assume you just didn’t read it.

I read it. You said it was not hypocritical for play how I want players to criticize zerker players.

I asked why not.

Now answer my question. Or should I assume you didn’t read my post?

The answer to that question was in my post.

*sigh

To repeat a different way:
“Play as you want” does not extend to social elements. If it did then WoW is “play as you want”. Can you play a WoW raid/dungeon without tanks or healers? Technically yes. But most follow a set meta and are therefore playing with like minded players and “playing as they want”. Since “play as you want” was meant to be a rebuttal of WoW style MMORPG then it is rather silly to interpret “play as you want” to include social elements, because if it did then “play as you want” means nothing at all.

“Play as you want” applies only to individual play styles. Not to who you want to play with. For “play as want” to mean anything, it means that you play with everyone.

I want to play with like-minded individuals. The key words being “want to play” which is equal to “play how you want”. My INDIVIDUAL way I want to play is with like-minded individuals who also have the same INDIVIDUAL way they want to play. So basically what I am saying is, play how you want means playing with certain people that you want to play with.

The way you define the term makes it meaningless and is clearly not what other people are talking about.
The way you run your character has nothing to do with how other people run their characters. “Play as you want” not “Play as we want”

That’s why zerker players put Zerk/meta, ping gear, X AP, etc. etc in their LFG’s. And why PHIW’s put anyone welcome/no skip/no stack/full clear. So that they can play how THEY want to play and not how someone else wants to play. Which is likely not how that someone else wants to play because a compromise will very very rarely completely please every party involved.

Your extending the concept too far. “no skip/no stack/full clear” is as much against “play as you want” as a “zerker/meta/move-as-stack”. Everyone can’t “play as you want” if people are trying to dictate how other players play.

My prediction with HoT is that challenging group play will be on a map, while challenging instanced content will be solo.

No, I’m not.

So the players who play zerk and wish to stack and skip are they not playing how they want to play? That someone is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to play that way?

I do not get why you have such an issue with players who do not want to play the way you want to play, labeling their LFG’s and enforcing their LFG’s so that they do not infringe on how others want to play. That they’re willing to wait to play how they want.

Explain how that is different than WoW gameplay. “Play as you want” was suppose to be: “See you can do this where you can’t in other popular MMOs”.

Jerus.4350:

All I can say is I completely disagree. You can promote tolerance without demonizing those who are intolerant.

Do you have an idea how that actually would work?

Suppose people started demonizing those who won’t demonize the intolerant. How would you tolerate that? Or would you just reject that view point.

#Golem rush really needs to end…

Marthkus.4615:

Explain how that is different than WoW gameplay. “Play as you want” was suppose to be: “See you can do this where you can’t in other popular MMOs”.

I’ve not played WoW. So I can’t draw upon super detailed references.

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?

Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

I have the feeling the answer to the question regarding WoW is no and the question regarding GW2 is yes.

So even at the current state of the game, the play how you want status has been kept. Even with all of the zerker/skip/stack groups out there.

Why do you have a problem with players who have an opposing play style to you making sure that they do not impose their play style on anyone else? That they try to find others with the same play style as them?

Is it because you fear that the perception of non-meta players is that they aren’t good players and you want to force the two groups to play together so that the meta players will see that not all non-meta players are bad? I highly doubt the good meta players have that perception, they likely know that there are good non-meta players. They just choose not to play with players not on meta builds because the build slows the run down too much. It isn’t because the player is bad. It’s because the build isn’t as efficient or quick or smooth as the meta build.

I just don’t understand why you have a problem with people wishing to play how they want to play with other people who want to play the same way as they do. And I’m trying to understand.

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

All I can say is I completely disagree. You can promote tolerance without demonizing those who are intolerant.

Do you have an idea how that actually would work?

Suppose people started demonizing those who won’t demonize the intolerant. How would you tolerate that? Or would you just reject that view point.

#Golem rush really needs to end…

Tolerating someone doesn’t mean that you have to like them.

I don’t like getting up at 7 am to go to work. But I tolerate it. Because having a job is better than not having a job.

Seera.5916:

I just don’t understand why you have a problem with people wishing to play how they want to play with other people who want to play the same way as they do. And I’m trying to understand.

And as fair is fair, I’ll answer the reverse. Why I like that players can use the LFG in order to find other players who wish to play how they want to play.

1. The casual player is more likely to get into a group with other people wanting a more casual run. So they aren’t hounded by players to skip the mobs.

2. That new to dungeons players can find people willing to help them through. And are willing to let them watch the cut scenes. And that players who want to teach can find people willing to learn.

3. That players who wish go as fast as possible given the negatives of using a PUG group, can find others who wish to do the same thing.

4. So that fewer groups have to compromise. I’d hate to be in a group that was mixed and have a compromise of: “ok, we won’t watch the cutscenes, but you’re going to have to kill the trash possibly as we aren’t likely to be able to skip them.” Because neither side is fully happy. The casuals are missing watching the cutscenes and the zerkers are going slower than they want.

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

All I can say is I completely disagree. You can promote tolerance without demonizing those who are intolerant.

Do you have an idea how that actually would work?

Suppose people started demonizing those who won’t demonize the intolerant. How would you tolerate that? Or would you just reject that view point.

#Golem rush really needs to end…

Yup, you tolerate. It’s pretty easy, you give them no credit. Call me whatever you want, but I simply won’t care. Tolerating doesn’t mean you care about what people say, it simply means you don’t go out of your way against it. Morality is not universal, people have different opinions on it. I accept them all, doesn’t mean I agree with them all, it just means I can live my life without concerning myself with them. It’s really quite easy.

This thread is so confusing. Are people arguing with themselves? I’d bet this thread closes by tomorrow evening. But yeah hard to understand what is going on lol

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

Jerus.4350:

Yup, you tolerate. It’s pretty easy, you give them no credit. Call me whatever you want, but I simply won’t care. Tolerating doesn’t mean you care about what people say, it simply means you don’t go out of your way against it. Morality is not universal, people have different opinions on it. I accept them all, doesn’t mean I agree with them all, it just means I can live my life without concerning myself with them. It’s really quite easy.

Let’s say no one in GW2 tolerated playing with you for some reason. Let’s say everyone blocked you/auto-kicked. Let’s say ANET even banned you from the game.

Thoughts on how you would handle that?

Ok, now let’s say every MMO treated you the same way. How would you handle that?

Now what if Steam refused to let you download or play games. What if consoles refused to accept your commands because the game devs refused to let you play. How would you handle that?

Saying you tolerate intolerance is really easy when the intolerance doesn’t personally effect you.

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Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

NOTE: If you meant %content, then that might swing back towards GW2. Though between high level fractals and most people not having the dungeon master achievement, WoW still might win out. Since they introduced downscaling and thus all their old content is playable in a serious way with non top gear or meta comps.

Marthkus.4615:

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Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

So can you LFG the current hardest content in WoW? in GW2?

Marthkus.4615:

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Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

NOTE: If you meant %content, then that might swing back towards GW2. Though between high level fractals and most people not having the dungeon master achievement, WoW still might win out. Since they introduced downscaling and thus all their old content is playable in a serious way with non top gear or meta comps.

Percent content definitely. Hard to really compare exact #‘s between a game that’s been out for as long as WoW has and a game that’s been out for as long as GW2 has and be fair to either game.

And you haven’t answered my why question.

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Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

So can you LFG the current hardest content in WoW? in GW2?

You can’t LFG random PuG the hardest flavor of the dungeon, but you can run that dungeon on a lower difficulty.

I have never seen an anyone welcome fract 50 in GW2. At a bare minimum they require AR.

So the answer is no to both. You can’t LFG fract 50 in GW2 like the WoW LFG.

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And you haven’t answered my why question.

Why do you dislike Mexican food? The why questions you asked me make about as much sense. I have no idea what you are going on about.

Marthkus.4615:

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Marthkus.4615:

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Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Can a group of players who all wish to be healers complete all content in WoW? I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just can it be done by skilled players?
Now can content be completed in GW2 by a group of players in all Clerics gear with support builds? Again, I don’t care how fast or slow it can be done. Just that it can be done by skilled players?

It’s not easy, but yes it is doable. People don’t normally do that stuff in WoW because it is harder.

It’s like how in GW2 you can solo Arah naked.

Which game has the most content that the average players with any variety of build combinations (form full meta to full non-meta) can complete given that they just have the average skill level? So they aren’t the top 1% that can solo Arah naked.

WoW.

Buddy of mine still plays it. Yes still Tank/dps/healer party comps but their LFG is automated and they made that tier of content fairly easy and in-no-way requires meta builds.

So can you LFG the current hardest content in WoW? in GW2?

You can’t LFG random PuG the hardest flavor of the dungeon, but you can run that dungeon on a lower difficulty.

I have never seen an anyone welcome fract 50 in GW2. At a bare minimum they require AR.

So the answer is no to both. You can’t LFG fract 50 in GW2 like the WoW LFG.

Just because you haven’t seen it doesn’t mean you can’t. And my question was only a question on the ability to do so. Not whether they were for non-metas or metas.

People used to do Fractal 70’s or whatever it was before they reset the fractals with no AR or no where near enough AR on Rangers at one point. Because the Pets could help heal them from the downed state and get them past the agony attacks.

So the fact that you do see requirements in GW2 LFG’s is partly due to being able to PUG the hardest content. Be it Fractals 50 or seeing how fast one can get through a dungeon path.

If WoW’s LFG had, or if it does have, the ability to put a description in it, I’d be shocked if they didn’t have the same type of requirements.

I would not be opposed to an additional LFG that was an “I don’t care who I get put with, I just want to do a X dungeon/fractal and Y path/level”. So the current LFG would still be present for those who wish to be more selective. But a random more WoW type LFG would exist for those who truly don’t care.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

And you haven’t answered my why question.

Why do you dislike Mexican food? The why questions you asked me make about as much sense. I have no idea what you are going on about.

Why do you have an issue with meta players putting into their LFG that they wish to play with other meta players and kicking when players do not meet the requirement of being meta?

I happen to like Mexican food. I like it because I enjoy the flavor and texture combinations. If I didn’t like beans, I may not like a lot of Mexican food given how much of it features beans. But I like beans.

You don’t select groups in WoW LFG. It makes a group and then puts you all in it. You just tell the LFG if you are tank/healer/dps.

You can’t do fract 50 without AR now. Agony is constantly applied as an environmental effect. Nor could you have ever pugged such a group.

Seera.5916:

Why do you have an issue with meta players putting into their LFG that they wish to play with other meta players and kicking when players do not meet the requirement of being meta?.

Did I ever say that?
You assume I am arguing that people who say “play as you want” can critique “zerker-only” without being hypocritical because I support their view point.

I may merely be arguing a logic point because the WvW golem train bores me, and a flamely thread where people pretend excluding other players isn’t nearly as bad as the REAL exclusion being done to them by people not liking that they exclude other players isn’t immediately a good distraction.

Myself blocking people who ask for gear pings or AP requirements is because I dislike the distrust from gear pings for many reasons and I think anyone who believes AP is a measure of skill has a logical deficiency that would make for a displeasing playmate.

I also minored in philosophy, which really just means I like arguing.

EDIT: Mexican food is amazing. I’m glad your opinion about it is not wrong :P

Marthkus.4615:

You don’t select groups in WoW LFG. It makes a group and then puts you all in it. You just tell the LFG if you are tank/healer/dps.

You can’t do fract 50 without AR now. Agony is constantly applied as an environmental effect. Nor could you have ever pugged such a group.

I never asked if you would be successful if you pugged it. Just could you use the LFG to get people who wanted to do the same thing with you (like try to do Fractal 50 without AR now). Whether you’d be “successful” or not is another question. Successful in quotes because sometimes you do something to see if it’s possible and finding out it’s not possible is not really a failure.

Now which game, GW2 or WoW, has the better LFG is an entirely different question. And probably somewhat dependent on the content the tool is used for.

WoW’s LFG would be harder to troll as you’d be expected to compromise with your group mates or leave to try your luck again. Or get kicked if you caused trouble (if it’s even possible to kick in WoW if you use its LFG). But if two opposing sets of players got together it would be hard to determine which group should leave and which should stay and a compromise would likely have to be reached. And neither group would likely be entirely happy.

But GW2’s LFG does allow for players to segregate themselves so that compromises aren’t necessary and everyone can play how they want with others who feel the same way. But it does allow for trolling and jerk behavior a lot more than WoW’s.

Which system is better for GW2? ANet apparently thinks the LFG system we currently have. I highly doubt they didn’t consider something like WoW’s, but decided against it for reasons unknown to us.

And at this point going from what we have to a random group only LFG like WoW’s would probably hurt GW2 more than it would help. Which is why I suggest ANet adds it in as an additional LFG tool.

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

Marthkus.4615:

Seera.5916:

Why do you have an issue with meta players putting into their LFG that they wish to play with other meta players and kicking when players do not meet the requirement of being meta?.

Did I ever say that?
You assume I am arguing that people who say “play as you want” can critique “zerker-only” without being hypocritical because I support their view point.

I may merely be arguing a logic point because the WvW golem train bores me, and a flamely thread where people pretend excluding other players isn’t nearly as bad as the REAL exclusion being done to them by people not liking that they exclude other players isn’t immediately a good distraction.

Myself blocking people who ask for gear pings or AP requirements is because I dislike the distrust from gear pings for many reasons and I think anyone who believes AP is a measure of skill has a logical deficiency that would make for a displeasing playmate.

I also minored in philosophy, which really just means I like arguing.

EDIT: Mexican food is amazing. I’m glad your opinion about it is not wrong :P

At least we agree on a few things. I also agree that AP is not a measure of skill.

It only really is only a measure when compared to total hours played. And even then only how much of an AP hunter you are or are not. Very few achievements require actual skill to be able to achieve them. So having high AP isn’t an indication of skill. Especially now that there have been a few really good sales on the game and the dungeon elite have secondary accounts they do play on. They’re very skilled but get kicked due to low AP…

So you’re in here playing Devil’s advocate and arguing against the current LFG because you saw no one else in here doing it but don’t necessarily think it’s pure evil that people put in requirements? Just don’t like the ones that use requirements that you view are meaningless?

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

You do realize you’re the reason why so many zerk players go off on players who join when they don’t fit the requirements? Because you happen to join in at a time when they don’t care to boot you (for whatever reason, the good players know the DPS isn’t up to par and the really good ones will know it’s you). Or you’re just really lucky and get into the groups that only put that requirement up to root out the worst players and you actually fit what they’re truly looking for. Then the next run things go differently. They don’t want to carry someone again so they’re more likely to kick someone and could be rude about it because they’re tired of carrying people.

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Tigaseye.2047:

… if the list system carried on alongside the random queue …

You know, that’s not a bad idea. Want to set reqs, use the current system; want to just drop in any old way, use random queue. Anything that promotes a way for more people to get what they want would be a good idea.

I doubt this would solve the problem completely. There would undoubtedly be people who choose not to read or don’t get it, and people who want to troll or freeload… but no system will eliminate those outliers.

Now, the problem would be convincing ANet…

Seera.5916:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

You do realize you’re the reason why so many zerk players go off on players who join when they don’t fit the requirements? Because you happen to join in at a time when they don’t care to boot you (for whatever reason, the good players know the DPS isn’t up to par and the really good ones will know it’s you). Or you’re just really lucky and get into the groups that only put that requirement up to root out the worst players and you actually fit what they’re truly looking for. Then the next run things go differently. They don’t want to carry someone again so they’re more likely to kick someone and could be rude about it because they’re tired of carrying people.

Zerker groups don’t boot me because most of them do not notice at all.

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

Yup, you tolerate. It’s pretty easy, you give them no credit. Call me whatever you want, but I simply won’t care. Tolerating doesn’t mean you care about what people say, it simply means you don’t go out of your way against it. Morality is not universal, people have different opinions on it. I accept them all, doesn’t mean I agree with them all, it just means I can live my life without concerning myself with them. It’s really quite easy.

Let’s say no one in GW2 tolerated playing with you for some reason. Let’s say everyone blocked you/auto-kicked. Let’s say ANET even banned you from the game.

Thoughts on how you would handle that?

Ok, now let’s say every MMO treated you the same way. How would you handle that?

Now what if Steam refused to let you download or play games. What if consoles refused to accept your commands because the game devs refused to let you play. How would you handle that?

Saying you tolerate intolerance is really easy when the intolerance doesn’t personally effect you.

I’d read more books and watch more shows, listen to more music. Not a huge deal.

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

Jerus.4350:

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

Yup, you tolerate. It’s pretty easy, you give them no credit. Call me whatever you want, but I simply won’t care. Tolerating doesn’t mean you care about what people say, it simply means you don’t go out of your way against it. Morality is not universal, people have different opinions on it. I accept them all, doesn’t mean I agree with them all, it just means I can live my life without concerning myself with them. It’s really quite easy.

Let’s say no one in GW2 tolerated playing with you for some reason. Let’s say everyone blocked you/auto-kicked. Let’s say ANET even banned you from the game.

Thoughts on how you would handle that?

Ok, now let’s say every MMO treated you the same way. How would you handle that?

Now what if Steam refused to let you download or play games. What if consoles refused to accept your commands because the game devs refused to let you play. How would you handle that?

Saying you tolerate intolerance is really easy when the intolerance doesn’t personally effect you.

I’d read more books and watch more shows, listen to more music. Not a huge deal.

What if your democratic country past laws preventing you from doing those activities and had you monitored around the clock by special forces to prevent any form of breaking this law. What if it was illegal for anyone to interact with or provide any kind of service too you?

Still no complaints? Is the world’s intolerance of you still fine?

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

How is his play-style not as acceptable as the elitist? Both are “play as you want”.

Do you find something morally wrong with his playstyle? Whats the difference between him ruining a group run and other ruining the run of an individual? People can ban classes, but people can’t join whatever LFG they feel like?

Is his behavior reprehensible to you because you find it offensive?

Surely if ANET disliked his behavior they would have set up the LFG to prevent it.

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

Except, I haven’t ruin the game for other people. The runs goes fine 100% of the time. They don’t notice their experience being ruined at all.

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

Except, I haven’t ruin the game for other people. The runs goes fine 100% of the time. They don’t notice their experience being ruined at all.

They notice it, I always notice it. I’m just not a jerk like you so I let it go and realize that I won’t stoop to the level of the inconsiderate jerks who joined my party with no regard to me or the other members of my party. The runs always take longer when people like you join.

It is like the people at Teq who refuse to take off their soldiers gear now that you need to crit him to kill him. No respect for other players, just your own selfish needs.

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

Except, I haven’t ruin the game for other people. The runs goes fine 100% of the time. They don’t notice their experience being ruined at all.

They notice it, I always notice it. I’m just not a jerk like you so I let it go and realize that I won’t stoop to the level of the inconsiderate jerks who joined my party with no regard to me or the other members of my party. The runs always take longer when people like you join.

It is like the people at Teq who refuse to take off their soldiers gear now that you need to crit him to kill him. No respect for other players, just your own selfish needs.

I spy an excuse to cover up the inability to see a slight loss of dps.

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

Except, I haven’t ruin the game for other people. The runs goes fine 100% of the time. They don’t notice their experience being ruined at all.

It may be ruined. Just not ruined enough for them to bother dealing with it. Or that kicking you would ruin it more than carrying you does.

And it goes fine for you. But the time you cost them, may have cost one of them the ability to do another dungeon run whereas if they had someone who did meet the requirements, they may have been able to do another run before having to go.

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

Except, I haven’t ruin the game for other people. The runs goes fine 100% of the time. They don’t notice their experience being ruined at all.

They notice it, I always notice it. I’m just not a jerk like you so I let it go and realize that I won’t stoop to the level of the inconsiderate jerks who joined my party with no regard to me or the other members of my party. The runs always take longer when people like you join.

It is like the people at Teq who refuse to take off their soldiers gear now that you need to crit him to kill him. No respect for other players, just your own selfish needs.

I spy an excuse to cover up the inability to see a slight loss of dps.

You’re running soldiers gear they might as well 4 man the dungeon. It would practically be the same thing as far as damage output goes. This isn’t an opinion it is a fact. Pure power is mostly useless without ferocity/precision. Anybody who regularly runs dungeons would notice the damage difference without the high crit damage and high crit chance.

Seera.5916:

And it goes fine for you. But the time you cost them, may have cost one of them the ability to do another dungeon run whereas if they had someone who did meet the requirements, they may have been able to do another run before having to go.

A few seconds longer?

Marthkus.4615:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

Dinks.2478:

runeblade.7514:

It is simple, just join with whatever gear you want in any group. You don’t need to wear zerk gear at all even if they ask for it.

I joined many “ZERK ONLY” groups, wearing nothing but soldier gear.100% of the time, The run goes fine.

That is incredibly rude. You expect others to respect the way you want to play but have no respect for other gamers or the way they want to play. So instead of joining a casual group you join a zerker only group without zerker and not only slow down their run but make it harder for them because one person not in zerker can cause a zerker player to be hit more often.

I expect the run to go fine. And it does, 100% of the time whenever I feel like wearing my soldier gear.

I don’t join casual groups because the run is never 100% fine. Usually, it is 40% that is fine.

It might go 100% fine but it definitely got slower and you definitely got carried even if just a little compared to everybody else. If I ever see you in my group its auto-kick for you. People like you are ridiculous. The same type who would cry if you were trying to sPvP or WvW and I kept joining your team with no armor on.

Except, I don’t cry about the zerker meta bullies. I embrace it.

This is more like other spvpers and WvWers cry at me because I play a non-meta build and they die a lot, so then they blame me.

You embrace it by ruining the game for other people. So basically you’re a rude jerk.
The irony and hypocrisy of screwing over other people who want to play their own way so that you can play your own way is just painful. This thread is going nowhere because it is full of self-righteous jerks like yourself who feel that because they “play how they want” it justifies kittenting on the playstyles of other people. Setting LFG requirements is acceptable, ignoring them and ruining the groups of those people is not.

How is his play-style not as acceptable as the elitist? Both are “play as you want”.

Do you find something morally wrong with his playstyle? Whats the difference between him ruining a group run and other ruining the run of an individual? People can ban classes, but people can’t join whatever LFG they feel like?

Is his behavior reprehensible to you because you find it offensive?

Surely if ANET disliked his behavior they would have set up the LFG to prevent it.

He is actively seeking out others who are attempting to engage in the meta playstyle that they enjoy in order to negatively impact their enjoyment of the game.

The meta groups are not actively seeking out non meta/casual players for the purpose of preventing them from engaging in the casual/non meta play that they enjoy.

He is seeking out victims upon whom to inflict his will. Meta groups are actively seeking, through the LFG description, to avoid imposing their playstyle on others (please note that meta players who join non meta groups and attempt to impose their playstyle on others are no better).

He is targeting others while they are attempting to avoid imposing upon others.

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

Marthkus.4615:

Jerus.4350:

Yup, you tolerate. It’s pretty easy, you give them no credit. Call me whatever you want, but I simply won’t care. Tolerating doesn’t mean you care about what people say, it simply means you don’t go out of your way against it. Morality is not universal, people have different opinions on it. I accept them all, doesn’t mean I agree with them all, it just means I can live my life without concerning myself with them. It’s really quite easy.

Let’s say no one in GW2 tolerated playing with you for some reason. Let’s say everyone blocked you/auto-kicked. Let’s say ANET even banned you from the game.

Thoughts on how you would handle that?

Ok, now let’s say every MMO treated you the same way. How would you handle that?

Now what if Steam refused to let you download or play games. What if consoles refused to accept your commands because the game devs refused to let you play. How would you handle that?

Saying you tolerate intolerance is really easy when the intolerance doesn’t personally effect you.

I’d read more books and watch more shows, listen to more music. Not a huge deal.

What if your democratic country past laws preventing you from doing those activities and had you monitored around the clock by special forces to prevent any form of breaking this law. What if it was illegal for anyone to interact with or provide any kind of service too you?

Still no complaints? Is the world’s intolerance of you still fine?

Now you’re encountering legal enforcement. personally, it is what it is. However what I spoke of initially is simply opinion. It’s a much different aspect. Legal enforcement is exactly what I stated as wrong in the idea of forced tolerance. When you threaten those who simply allow people to do as they please, that’s simply absurd. However, if the system wants to do that I have a choice, to rebel or to conform, I make the choice and I’m ok with the repercussions of my choice.

i think you ppl are losing sight on the real issue here……

runeblade.7514:

Seera.5916:

And it goes fine for you. But the time you cost them, may have cost one of them the ability to do another dungeon run whereas if they had someone who did meet the requirements, they may have been able to do another run before having to go.

A few seconds longer?

I highly doubt it’s a few seconds longer. Otherwise soldier’s gear would be part of the PUG meta. And it’s not.

sorudo.9054:

i think you ppl are losing sight on the real issue here……

Why don’t you remind us what that is instead of just saying so. And who you mean by “you ppl” as there are two who are engaging in a back and forth that has gone past the realm of relevant (the back and forth on whether one can tolerate an intolerant person).

Seera.5916:

sorudo.9054:

i think you ppl are losing sight on the real issue here……

Why don’t you remind us what that is instead of just saying so. And who you mean by “you ppl” as there are two who are engaging in a back and forth that has gone past the realm of relevant (the back and forth on whether one can tolerate an intolerant person).

it’s not about tolerance here, that’s actually the off-topic part, it’s about one group bullying the other.
meta players joining non-meta player groups and bully them for it and vise versa.

sorudo.9054:

Seera.5916:

sorudo.9054:

i think you ppl are losing sight on the real issue here……

Why don’t you remind us what that is instead of just saying so. And who you mean by “you ppl” as there are two who are engaging in a back and forth that has gone past the realm of relevant (the back and forth on whether one can tolerate an intolerant person).

it’s not about tolerance here, that’s actually the off-topic part, it’s about one group bullying the other.
meta players joining non-meta player groups and bully them for it and vise versa.

People who are doing this need a smack upside the head.

stof.9341:

Broom.2561:

I personally like what they did in Age of Conan. You CANNOT complete raids if you don’t have members of ALL classes. There are no useless professions. And speed runs are impossible.

Unless each and every single dungeon/raid in Age of Conan is a timed tower defense game that can only ever be completed after you survive for 10 minute exactly, then speed runs are possible. Because two runs will take a different time to complete and so people will try for the shortest possible time.

Heck, people made a speed run for Monopoly on the NES.

Trust me, I’ve participated in AOC raids till T3 level (which we were still trying to figure out as late as 3 years into live). There are no speed runs. There are runs that are faster/more efficient than others, but the mechanics are such that you cannot rush, rushing = dead players. All I can say is check this raid guide http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?180665-T1-Raid-Guide.