Time gated crafting items can be purchased for cash/gem/gold as can legendary weapons, nice gem shop armor skins and unlimited use picks/salvage machine to just about everything else, saving you time and in game gold, i don’t see how gw2 isn’t p2w.
So .. how many players have you killed in PvP that you wouldnt have killed with your unlimited pick ?
Exactly .. zero .. nada.
Except most sub mmos don’t sell you in game gold, i say most but idk any that do.
Which is a completely different issue. The person I quoted didn’t want a cash shop, and I corrected him/her/it by stating that it is very common for sub MMOs to still have cash shops.
And it is fully possibly to buy in game gold in more or less every single MMO. GW2 just makes it possible to do it legit.
I’d stop playing GW2 if they ever introduce subscription fees.
Now now, the majority will always be non-paying,
Think about it.
Everyone exchanging gold for gems is essentially paying, or at least helping them earn money with the gem-shop.
Buy something benign like transmutation crystals (who hasn’t), ding, these gems were bought with real money – even when you buy them with in-game gold.
Except most sub mmos don’t sell you in game gold, i say most but idk any that do.
Which is a completely different issue. The person I quoted didn’t want a cash shop, and I corrected him/her/it by stating that it is very common for sub MMOs to still have cash shops.
And it is fully possibly to buy in game gold in more or less every single MMO. GW2 just makes it possible to do it legit.
Im sure there is a lot of things you can do illegally, doesnt make it right thou that you can, cash shop/gem store isn’t quite the same as just a cash shop.
No, I don’t think the game will necessarily improve by throwing money at it. They have (or had) plenty of development money but use it in ways that alienate much of the core playerbase. I do not think the past year of Living Story, failure to reach “e-sports”, WvW problems, etc. are because of lack of funding. I think it is due to poor leadership in the studio.
No, although I am more than happy to pay a sub for the right game.
I don’t spend money in the Gem Store and I don’t think the game is good enough currently to warrant a sub fee in all honesty (nor are any others at the moment which I have tried either tbh).
Time gated crafting items can be purchased for cash/gem/gold as can legendary weapons, nice gem shop armor skins and unlimited use picks/salvage machine to just about everything else, saving you time and in game gold, i don’t see how gw2 isn’t p2w.
So .. how many players have you killed in PvP that you wouldnt have killed with your unlimited pick ?
Exactly .. zero .. nada.
1-10 Interesting comment, would read again.
This is true, any game that gives you shortcuts for RL money is a p2w game, plain and simple.
P2Shortcut is NOT P2W. Being at the top the fastest is not winning. Being better than the top is winning. P2W requires that payment of real money puts your character above what non-paying characters can achieve… plain and simple.
Time gated crafting items can be purchased for cash/gem/gold as can legendary weapons, nice gem shop armor skins and unlimited use picks/salvage machine to just about everything else, saving you time and in game gold, i don’t see how gw2 isn’t p2w.
So .. how many players have you killed in PvP that you wouldnt have killed with your unlimited pick ?
Exactly .. zero .. nada.
PvP isn’t winning for everyone. A lot of people don’t even play it. Winning in this game can be gold, skins, PvP, achievements, all kinds of stuff, and it varies player to player.
PvP isn’t winning for everyone. A lot of people don’t even play it. Winning in this game can be gold, skins, PvP, achievements, all kinds of stuff, and it varies player to player.
No. Absolutely incorrect.
You cannot win at playing dress up. You can only win where objective criteria are present for determining who has won and who has lost.
PvP isn’t winning for everyone. A lot of people don’t even play it. Winning in this game can be gold, skins, PvP, achievements, all kinds of stuff, and it varies player to player.
No. Absolutely incorrect.
You cannot win at playing dress up. You can only win where objective criteria are present for determining who has won and who has lost.
This is your opinion, and I respect that even if I disagree. To have unique skins for some people is winning in a game, whether you recognize it or not, in their mind it’s winning. Open your mind, think outside the box that developers have created for you to play in.
I don’t think playing dress up is winning either, but I respect the fact that some people do feel that way. It’s up to you whether or not to realize that.
This is true, any game that gives you shortcuts for RL money is a p2w game, plain and simple.
P2Shortcut is NOT P2W. Being at the top the fastest is not winning. Being better than the top is winning. P2W requires that payment of real money puts your character above what non-paying characters can achieve… plain and simple.
I don’t agree i would say games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate.
This is your opinion, and I respect that even if I disagree. To have unique skins for some people is winning in a game, whether you recognize it or not, in their mind it’s winning. Open your mind, think outside the box that developers have created for you to play in.
I don’t think playing dress up is winning either, but I respect the fact that some people do feel that way. It’s up to you whether or not to realize that.
If we allow arbitrary and subjective criteria for “winning”, then every game ever made is P2W and the entire argument against P2W is invalid.
Some words have actual meanings, and they apply regardless of what some players wish they meant. “Winning” is such a word.
Those players may get more enjoyment out of playing dress up, but they cannot ever win by doing it.
So, would you pay $10 a month for the game…
Nope. I don’t pay sub fees to play a game. Ever.
Would I play it? Probably. But it would give me a major incentive to try out the competition, such as the new game coming in April. Right now, their subscription fee versus GW2’s lack of same means I am not very tempted.
PvP isn’t winning for everyone. A lot of people don’t even play it. Winning in this game can be gold, skins, PvP, achievements, all kinds of stuff, and it varies player to player.
No. Absolutely incorrect.
You cannot win at playing dress up. You can only win where objective criteria are present for determining who has won and who has lost.
This is your opinion, and I respect that even if I disagree. To have unique skins for some people is winning in a game, whether you recognize it or not, in their mind it’s winning. Open your mind, think outside the box that developers have created for you to play in.
Then the game is already P2W just because you had to pay for the box, else you were never able to dress your toons. So the shop is still irrelevant.
Also all the discussions about picks are irrelevant since there have always been dresses in the shop, so that already let you win. And don’t forget exchanging gems directly to gold gives you much faster the gold you need as first buying a pick, then harvest 160.000 times until you have made some profit.
If for the sub fee I’d get 1) quality over quantity monthly/bimonthly updates, 2) no cash shop ridiculousness , 3) more permanent over temporary content, I’d gladly pay even 15-25 Euros a month.
Subs are usually a good sign in the MMO market.
Oh, except for the fact that more or less every sub-based MMO still have a cash shop.
Except most sub mmos don’t sell you in game gold, i say most but idk any that do.
You know, I think that selling ingame gold is a huuuuuuge turnoff. So yea – I’d pay a sub for a good game. I’m not ever again going to buy a game that sells you ingame gold, though.
3k hours GW2 playtime, including early beta on couple of accounts here. After playing about all MMORPGs last 8-9 years, most of them hardcore I am pretty confident that I am much happier with subscription based model with complete lack of cash shop. For the overal superior gaming experience with GW2 compared with the competition I’ll be happy to pay £10-15/month. Overall I feel more satisfaction achieving feat or winning item purely because of my skills or time investment in game than just buying it with cash (example being, making the achievement with 8 orbs Liadri, so far my most satisfaing moment in GW2). I worked our pretty fast that working 16 hours real life overtime to buy legendary is easier than “working” 1000 hours game time unpleasent and repetitive farming of gold and materials to craft it. So To have legendary I work 2 days instead of playing 2 days, seems wrong to me personaly. Thanks.
(edited by Sam.6483)
3k hours GW2 playtime, including early beta on couple of accounts here. After playing about all MMORPGs last 8-9 years, most of them hardcore I am pretty confident that I am much happier with subscription based model with complete lack of cash shop. For the overal superior gaming experience with GW2 compared with the competition I’ll be happy to pay £10-15/month. Overall I feel more satisfaction achieving feat or winning item purely because of my skills or time investment in game than just buying it with cash (example being, making the achievement with 8 orbs Liadri, so far my most satisfaing moment in GW2). I worked our pretty fast that working 16 hours real life overtime to buy legendary is easier than “working” 1000 hours game time unpleasent and repetitive farming of gold and materials to craft it. So To have legendary I work 2 days instead of playing 2 days, seems wrong to me personaly. Thanks.
Thumbs up!! Nice post!
GW2 could have both approaches. Leave model as it is + add subscription for NORMAL drop rates, better RNG and no time gating. And I’m sure there will be ppl using subscription. I would prefer such sub.
You played 3,000 hours for about $60 dollars and think you did not get enough out of your experience? Just as a side to walk from Tromsö in Norway to Cape Town in South Africa takes according to google 2941 hours.
3k hours GW2 playtime, including early beta on couple of accounts here. After playing about all MMORPGs last 8-9 years, most of them hardcore I am pretty confident that I am much happier with subscription based model with complete lack of cash shop. For the overal superior gaming experience with GW2 compared with the competition I’ll be happy to pay £10-15/month. Overall I feel more satisfaction achieving feat or winning item purely because of my skills or time investment in game than just buying it with cash (example being, making the achievement with 8 orbs Liadri, so far my most satisfaing moment in GW2). I worked our pretty fast that working 16 hours real life overtime to buy legendary is easier than “working” 1000 hours game time unpleasent and repetitive farming of gold and materials to craft it. So To have legendary I work 2 days instead of playing 2 days, seems wrong to me personaly. Thanks.
I don’t rent games.
Technically, we rent all computer games. Every EULA for a digital game is a lease agreement.
One of the reasons I like sub models is because that business model accurately reflects the agreement.
Any business plan can be tuned to favor profit-taking or fun, shareholders or players. Sub models can be tuned towards high profit with time gating. B2P models can be tuned towards high profit by obfuscating the direction of content development.
On topic, I would not pay a subscription for the current version of GW2.
3k hours GW2 playtime, including early beta on couple of accounts here. After playing about all MMORPGs last 8-9 years, most of them hardcore I am pretty confident that I am much happier with subscription based model with complete lack of cash shop. For the overal superior gaming experience with GW2 compared with the competition I’ll be happy to pay £10-15/month. Overall I feel more satisfaction achieving feat or winning item purely because of my skills or time investment in game than just buying it with cash (example being, making the achievement with 8 orbs Liadri, so far my most satisfaing moment in GW2). I worked our pretty fast that working 16 hours real life overtime to buy legendary is easier than “working” 1000 hours game time unpleasent and repetitive farming of gold and materials to craft it. So To have legendary I work 2 days instead of playing 2 days, seems wrong to me personaly. Thanks.
What you describe is a game theory level weakness of RMT cash shops.
This is your opinion, and I respect that even if I disagree. To have unique skins for some people is winning in a game, whether you recognize it or not, in their mind it’s winning. Open your mind, think outside the box that developers have created for you to play in.
I don’t think playing dress up is winning either, but I respect the fact that some people do feel that way. It’s up to you whether or not to realize that.
If we allow arbitrary and subjective criteria for “winning”, then every game ever made is P2W and the entire argument against P2W is invalid.
Some words have actual meanings, and they apply regardless of what some players wish they meant. “Winning” is such a word.
Those players may get more enjoyment out of playing dress up, but they cannot ever win by doing it.
So people that buy expensive clothes, expensive cars, expensive houses in real life and declare it “winning” are somehow right, where in digital space “winning” has a different definition completely. Winning is in the eye of the beholder, and I don’t care about someone’s $200 pants in real life, but when they declare it to be winning, who am I to challenge their view on it if that is what they perceive to be winning.
You can’t win life by having money by your definition, but most of the world does declare having money to be winning. The definition doesn’t suddenly change in virtual space just because you deem it to be different.
Meanwhile, other people view winning in life to be having a great family, or being happy. There is no one metric to “win” everything by.
For me the simple answer is yes, but, there is another item that needs to go and that is the LS and have full expansions, also, all the bugs that have been in-game since release needs to be fixed along with all the ones introduced and compounded by the LS updates and i’m still waiting for “the best of GW1 to be added to GW2”.
My stance has shifted. I previously said I would never sub again. However, I would pay a sub for a game, if:
Re GW2:
So to answer the OP’s question, no, I would not.
I don’t rent games.
Technically, we rent all computer games. Every EULA for a digital game is a lease agreement.
One of the reasons I like sub models is because that business model accurately reflects the agreement.
Any business plan can be tuned to favor profit-taking or fun, shareholders or players. Sub models can be tuned towards high profit with time gating. B2P models can be tuned towards high profit by obfuscating the direction of content development.
On topic, I would not pay a subscription for the current version of GW2.
I wouldn’t either, unless we all knew that awesome expansions were on the way. Anet is too vague, and most of the time their idea of “epic” massively differs from mine.
i hate pay 2 play. it gives you the feeling that you HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME RIGHT NOW otherwise you wasted money… i hate that feeling. i think gw2’s model is perfect as it is
this ^
even if I spend 50$ a week for beer and cigaretes, paying 15$ for game make me feel bad. idk why, it’s irrational and no logic, but it is like that.
+ if they make subscr. fee they need to force ppl to grind and stay in game. i don’t want kittening dailies like in WoW or grind new gear every month, blah
(edited by OneManArmy.9732)
The way the game is currently set up? No.
I’ve bought the game and haven’t spent a dime on it since. As much as I prefer subscription based games. As much as I prefer having everything available to me all at once, this game doesn’t need to be sub based. You don’t need to pay for anything after the box.
Even of GW2 was the perfect game for me, I would not pay even $1 a month to play it. I’m not a fan of sub based models as their goal is to keep the best stuff in the game so far in the future that by the time you get it, they’ve released something else for players to chase.
Because the moment a player feels like they’ve done everything they can, the moment they start to go: hmm, do I need to continue subscribing to this game. And that’s dangerous.
Now, would I consider an optional subscription where you get X gems per month and a nice multiuse skin (like the zenith skins) each month? I would consider it. That would probably come down to a can I afford it issue.
If we allow arbitrary and subjective criteria for “winning”,
The only objective winning in GW is in sPvP and that format has strictly limited gear.
This cash shop is extremely beneficial to the game, and positively affects my gameplay experience. -No One Ever
Honestly even if there was a sub, do you think the micro-transaction will cease to exist?
No, because I’m cheap.
I mean, $10 can buy me my breakfast, lunch, snack and dinner for 1 day when converted to my currency.. And that is with a few left for savings…
So people that buy expensive clothes, expensive cars, expensive houses in real life and declare it “winning” are somehow right, where in digital space “winning” has a different definition completely. Winning is in the eye of the beholder, and I don’t care about someone’s $200 pants in real life, but when they declare it to be winning, who am I to challenge their view on it if that is what they perceive to be winning.
You can’t win life by having money by your definition, but most of the world does declare having money to be winning. The definition doesn’t suddenly change in virtual space just because you deem it to be different.
Meanwhile, other people view winning in life to be having a great family, or being happy. There is no one metric to “win” everything by.
The same rules apply in real life. Having nicer things only means that you have nicer things. Wearing nicer clothes does not help you win at chess. Having a nicer car does not help you win at Basketball, and having a nicer house does not help you win at thermonuclear war.
The people who declare having nicer things to be “winning” in real life are just as wrong as the people on this forum who believe that you can win by playing dress up in a game. Those people seem to be confusing the concept of “winning” with “enjoyment”. I can enjoy my nice house, but having it does not help me win, nor is it proof that I have won at anything. Winning requires there to be a competition, so the only way I could win by having nicer clothing is if I brutally beat a guy and took his clothes off of his back so that now I am the winner and he is the loser, but even in that case the clothing was just the score, I still had to beat him to win.
Of course not. Lack of a sub fee is the primary reason many people play this game.
When you ask them why they play, they cite the lack of a fee as the primary reason. Not the awesome gameplay or amazing story or fantastic class balance…lol. Kind of weird huh?
You played 3,000 hours for about $60 dollars and think you did not get enough out of your experience? Just as a side to walk from Tromsö in Norway to Cape Town in South Africa takes according to google 2941 hours.
3k hours GW2 playtime, including early beta on couple of accounts here. After playing about all MMORPGs last 8-9 years, most of them hardcore I am pretty confident that I am much happier with subscription based model with complete lack of cash shop. For the overal superior gaming experience with GW2 compared with the competition I’ll be happy to pay £10-15/month. Overall I feel more satisfaction achieving feat or winning item purely because of my skills or time investment in game than just buying it with cash (example being, making the achievement with 8 orbs Liadri, so far my most satisfaing moment in GW2). I worked our pretty fast that working 16 hours real life overtime to buy legendary is easier than “working” 1000 hours game time unpleasent and repetitive farming of gold and materials to craft it. So To have legendary I work 2 days instead of playing 2 days, seems wrong to me personaly. Thanks.
I think I did not get enough out of my experience??? Moneywise, I’ve got orders of magnitude more then any other hobby I had. Just not very happy that I achieved most of the things (like legendary) relaying on my skills in my real life job instead of my skills ingame.
I did not get enough out of my experience??? Moneywise, I’ve got orders of magnitude more then any other hobby I had. Just not very happy that I achieved most of the things (like legendary) relaying on my skills in my real life job instead of my skills ingame.
That sounds like a personal choice you made, not a problem with the game design.
I did not get enough out of my experience??? Moneywise, I’ve got orders of magnitude more then any other hobby I had. Just not very happy that I achieved most of the things (like legendary) relaying on my skills in my real life job instead of my skills ingame.
That sounds like a personal choice you made, not a problem with the game design.
Time spent out of game rewards the player with more gold, than time spent in game.
Since Gold is everything in this game. That’s a bit of a problem.
Try to keep up champ.
PvP isn’t winning for everyone. A lot of people don’t even play it. Winning in this game can be gold, skins, PvP, achievements, all kinds of stuff, and it varies player to player.
No. Absolutely incorrect.
You cannot win at playing dress up. You can only win where objective criteria are present for determining who has won and who has lost.
This is your opinion, and I respect that even if I disagree. To have unique skins for some people is winning in a game, whether you recognize it or not, in their mind it’s winning. Open your mind, think outside the box that developers have created for you to play in.
Then the game is already P2W just because you had to pay for the box, else you were never able to dress your toons. So the shop is still irrelevant.
Also all the discussions about picks are irrelevant since there have always been dresses in the shop, so that already let you win. And don’t forget exchanging gems directly to gold gives you much faster the gold you need as first buying a pick, then harvest 160.000 times until you have made some profit.
The game is p2w because the pick gives you a bonus, because you can buy buffs (booster pack ) that you can apply to your character, because you can buy gold, because you can buy better gear or make better items then everyone else at a faster rate.
Time spent out of game rewards the player with more gold, than time spent in game.
Since Gold is everything in this game. That’s a bit of a problem.Try to keep up champ.
Sounds like you’re confusing your GW2 recreational time with your real life. That’s a lot of a problem.
Try to see a doctor about that.
In all seriousness though, this is a game. A game in which those without a lot of recreational time have the ability to stay on par with those who have loads of free time to spend in game. That is why this game is superior to some other games where time online is the only way to obtain anything, at least from the perspective of people who don’t have a lot of time (i.e. most people). The people who don’t like this concept tend to be the “leet kidz” who only derive enjoyment out of showing off their “phat loot” that others don’t or can’t have.
I am ok with the decision to disappoint those people as there are plenty of games already that reward that playstyle (see WoW).
For the OP’s question – no I would not.
I bought GW2 and GW before it because they had no sub. I do not believe in paying full price for a game and then being forced to pay every month just to access it. It’s for that very reason why the new consoles do not interest me – I already pay for broadband, but I’ll be kitten ed if I’m expected to pay a second time to use it!
I’m used to subs and usually I’m also okay with them … Unfortunately, I don’t think that GuildWars 2 is worth 10 bucks a month at all.
Yes I totally would say sub if gem store stopped existing. But is too late to do that
No.
Keep in mind that if the game had a sub fee it would most likely still have a cash shop.
Well, I wouldn’t be surprised. If they can turn on their manifesto then it’s easy for them to turn on the sub thing right after that “free from sub mmo” campaign
What is stated here in this post is the current Subscription Myth. Sadly, followers of this myth are renting the games they play and paying high fees while doing so.
In short, no. I would not pay a subscription for GW2 or any other game. I am not a fool.
God, this mentality reeks of self-righteousness. This entire Sub vs F2P argument is reminiscent of the console war. It’s not enough for F2P crowd just to say they don’t like subs, they feel the need to take their zealotry so much further, wanting you to believe companies that charge a subscription are unethical, scamming, profiteers and anyone paying a sub is a complete fool.
You pay a subscription for a continuing service. If that service isn’t worth the price, then you don’t pay it. The analogy of comparing a sub to “renting” a game is silly beyond belief. That argument would only hold water if the game was static and there was never any value added. (Also, you do realize that you’re “renting” GW2 right? You just paid for it up front, instead of over time.)
And that’s the whole point of a sub—the value added over time. For GW2 (which is a great game) the value added is minimal and, rightfully so, they don’t charge for it. For other games, the value added is much more… and so you, the consumer, need to decide if it’s worth the charge. It’s a simple decision, requiring absolutely no need for outrage, insecurities or insults to be let loose.
(edited by Aquinas.8421)
Time spent out of game rewards the player with more gold, than time spent in game.
Since Gold is everything in this game. That’s a bit of a problem.Try to keep up champ.
Sounds like you’re confusing your GW2 recreational time with your real life. That’s a lot of a problem.
Try to see a doctor about that.
In all seriousness though, this is a game. A game in which those without a lot of recreational time have the ability to stay on par with those who have loads of free time to spend in game. That is why this game is superior to some other games where time online is the only way to obtain anything, at least from the perspective of people who don’t have a lot of time (i.e. most people). The people who don’t like this concept tend to be the “leet kidz” who only derive enjoyment out of showing off their “phat loot” that others don’t or can’t have.
I am ok with the decision to disappoint those people as there are plenty of games already that reward that playstyle (see WoW).
I think “leet kids” feel leet because they know at any given moment they can do content faster and better than the others, and as a result look down on them as wanabees, p2w wont let you play with the cool kids, you can think you are as good, but you know your not, just a noob with gear they cant use like “leet kids” can.
And before anyone says, i don’t consider myself a “leet kid” only pointing out a p2w fail.
I would subscribe and if there was something nice enough in the cash shop to buy, then I’d probably spend money there too. I don’t care if the game has a sub and a cash shop. Keep them both. I just want Anet to be able to add substantial amounts of permanent content to this game every couple of years (plus small chunks of nice content in between), and if charging a sub is the way to do that, then I’m all for it. Having said that, I would wait to subscribe until I was convinced that Anet would be able to do that. I wouldn’t subscribe to the game in it’s current state.
I think “leet kids” feel leet because they know at any given moment they can do content faster and better than the others, and as a result look down on them as wanabees, p2w wont let you play with the cool kids, you can think you are as good, but you know your not, just a noob with gear they cant use like “leet kids” can.
And before anyone says, i don’t consider myself a “leet kid” only pointing out a p2w fail.
Well, there is no P2W in this game, so your entire comment was irrelevant.
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