Guild Wars 2

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

I think “leet kids” feel leet because they know at any given moment they can do content faster and better than the others, and as a result look down on them as wanabees, p2w wont let you play with the cool kids, you can think you are as good, but you know your not, just a noob with gear they cant use like “leet kids” can.

And before anyone says, i don’t consider myself a “leet kid” only pointing out a p2w fail.

Well, there is no P2W in this game, so your entire comment was irrelevant.

I disagree.

mesme.5028:

I disagree.

You are arguing that the sky is vanilla. Your disagreement with my assessment that the sky is NOT vanilla is illogical because your premise is incorrect.

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

I disagree.

You are arguing that the sky is vanilla. Your disagreement with my assessment that the sky is NOT vanilla is illogical because your premise is incorrect.

I didn’t say the sky was vanilla, only your assessment on p2w hinges on the word win.

Win: acquire or secure as a result of a contest, conflict, bet, or other endeavour.
“there are hundreds of prizes to be won”

synonyms: secure, gain, achieve, attain, earn, obtain, acquire, procure, get, collect, pick up, walk away/off with, come away with, carry off.

Time is always going to be relevant no matter how you spend it.

Another example, time spent working a minimum wage job will help you earn Legendary faster. After all you see all these people whining and complaining about how they’ve gone 3000+ hours without a precursor drop.

At what point did people say “Oh you know what is the most fun thing I’ve ever done in my entire life? CHAMP TRAINS/COF/CURSED SHORE EVENT FARM” People don’t actually think it’s fun right? There can’t be that many masochistic players playing a single game.

Sure people are going to cry “Elitist Elitist Elitist”, but in reality, even those people can understand the logic in the difference of farming up 4g-5g an hour vs 50g an hour.

mesme.5028:

I didn’t say the sky was vanilla, only your assessment on p2w hinges on the word win.

Win: acquire or secure as a result of a contest, conflict, bet, or other endeavour.
“there are hundreds of prizes to be won”

synonyms: secure, gain, achieve, attain, earn, obtain, acquire, procure, get, collect, pick up, walk away/off with, come away with, carry off.

Nothing you can obtain in the gem store grants you any kind of advantage over other players in the game that would allow you to “win”, with the exception of the Power Booster, thus it is not Pay to Win.

Furthermore, everything in the gem store can be purchased with in game gold via the currency exchange, thus it is definitely not Pay to Win.

You can pay to reduce time spent, and that is it.

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

I didn’t say the sky was vanilla, only your assessment on p2w hinges on the word win.

Win: acquire or secure as a result of a contest, conflict, bet, or other endeavour.
“there are hundreds of prizes to be won”

synonyms: secure, gain, achieve, attain, earn, obtain, acquire, procure, get, collect, pick up, walk away/off with, come away with, carry off.

Nothing you can obtain in the gem store grants you any kind of advantage over other players in the game that would allow you to “win”, with the exception of the Power Booster, thus it is not Pay to Win.

Furthermore, everything in the gem store can be purchased with in game gold via the currency exchange, thus it is definitely not Pay to Win.

You can pay to reduce time spent, and that is it.

Oh so the pick doesn’t give a bonus now?
The booster packs no longer boost ?

EDIT: It makes no difference how the items are obtained via the store you pay.

The day the subscription starts is the day I stop playing.

mesme.5028:

Oh so the pick doesn’t give a bonus now?
The booster packs no longer boost ?

EDIT: It makes no difference how the items are obtained via the store you pay.

It gives no bonus towards any form of competition, and thus no advantage.
Boosters increase the speed at which you do things, not the level which you can achieve.

This is not a racing game, therefore the rate at which you acquire something is irrelevant to other players. I cannot use my pick to beat you, nor can you use your Karma Booster to beat me.

lordkrall.7241:

Corpus Christi.2057:

If for the sub fee I’d get 1) quality over quantity monthly/bimonthly updates, 2) no cash shop ridiculousness , 3) more permanent over temporary content, I’d gladly pay even 15-25 Euros a month.

Subs are usually a good sign in the MMO market.

Oh, except for the fact that more or less every sub-based MMO still have a cash shop.

If by “every sub-based MMO” you mean only World of Warcraft.
If a sub fee would mean this game would stop revolving around driving people to the gem store and actually add interesting, permanent content and new classes then it would be fantastic. A large subscriber base in the hands of a good dev team could turn this game from mediocre into probably the best MMO on the market. As it stands everything in the game is designed around the gem store. Insanely grindy, gold-driven end-game; fluffy temporary content that serves no purpose other than to have a constant cycle of new items in the gem store and give people a feeling that they need to rush to the store to buy them items because nothing lasts. You’re never going to see new classes or an expansion pack or interesting, engaging content because none of those things facilitate gem store income for the devs. It’s 100x less work to just create fluffy, temporary content as an excuse to add things to the gem store. Why do you think they acted like the sky was falling when people accidentally figured out how to turn karma into gold? Anyone that really believes that the decision to make this game strictly horizontal and vanity-based was done out of some sort of artistry is crazy. You can’t put vertical content in the gem store, nor can you sell it for gold because people will cry P2W. You can’t have it drop in any sort of interesting end-game content because that does nothing to further gem-store profits.

All you guys that geniuely love this game that say you would quit if there was a sub fee are nuts. With a sub fee the devs get paid and spend the entire month figuring out how to make the game more fun and more engaging. With a cash-shop the devs spend the entire month figuring out how to get you to buy things in the cash-shop.
As it stands this game is no better than asian f2ps…they just figured out a way to spin it in a more appealing way.

GW2 is already sub based, it’s fee is:
(50 / x) USD a month where x is the number of months you plan to play the game.

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

Oh so the pick doesn’t give a bonus now?
The booster packs no longer boost ?

EDIT: It makes no difference how the items are obtained via the store you pay.

It gives no bonus towards any form of competition, and thus no advantage.
Boosters increase the speed at which you do things, not the level which you can achieve.

This is not a racing game, therefore the rate at which you acquire something is irrelevant to other players. I cannot use my pick to beat you, nor can you use your Karma Booster to beat me.

Pick gives a bonus and thus has an advantage.
boosters do just that and are an advantage.

Ashen.2907:

No.

Keep in mind that if the game had a sub fee it would most likely still have a cash shop.

Ashen has a point. Companies are monetizing games every way they think they can get away with. People can complain all they like, but if their money model is and remains profitable, it will be used.

I also find it hilarious that the term P2W has now evolved to mean, “Pay for anything I don’t like people having the option to pay for.”

mesme.5028:

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

Oh so the pick doesn’t give a bonus now?
The booster packs no longer boost ?

EDIT: It makes no difference how the items are obtained via the store you pay.

It gives no bonus towards any form of competition, and thus no advantage.
Boosters increase the speed at which you do things, not the level which you can achieve.

This is not a racing game, therefore the rate at which you acquire something is irrelevant to other players. I cannot use my pick to beat you, nor can you use your Karma Booster to beat me.

Pick gives a bonus and thus has an advantage.
boosters do just that and are an advantage.

Explain exactly how I can beat you with my pick.
Pick any “p2w” item of your choice and explain exactly how it can be used by you to beat me at anything in the game.

You have to be able to use something to win in order for that something to be a P2W item.

Ettanin.8271:

GW2 is already sub based, it’s fee is:
(50 / x) USD a month where x is the number of months you plan to play the game.

Well, the difference is price certainty… but still, this is a good point. This entire discussion comes down to a single concern: value.

GW2 certainly gives you great value, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s more valuable than a subscription. Like you hinted at, if someone bought GW2 for $50, and only played it for a month, he’d get better ($/month) value out of buying a subscription game and playing for 6 months.

Also, those people that claim “I don’t rent video games” as an argument against subscriptions are ignorant. If you bought GW2, then yes, you’re renting it… your access has an expiration date on it, just like any subscription. It’s just longer (which goes back to the value argument.)

Subscription model and I stop playing.

It’s as simple as that.

Aquinas.8421:

Also, those people that claim “I don’t rent video games” as an argument against subscriptions are ignorant. If you bought GW2, then yes, you’re renting it… your access has an expiration date on it, just like any subscription. It’s just longer (which goes back to the value argument.)

Only partly true. I can play the game as long as the servers remain up, not until I stop handing over money. That’s where the rent analogy comes into it.

EWWWWW did the op really suggest a subscription model?!?!

Though, I do think they focus on the cash shop a little too much in gw2 atm.

I would rather see expansions that cost money but are WAY bigger than what the living story is giving us. All of cantha or Elona or Northern Tyria + Crystal Desert +rest of Orr + those volcanic islands would be 3 prime candidates imo.

Subscriptions → grindy things to keep people in game.

Cash Shop → Increased inequality between rich and poor players (especially with the currency exchange), increased RNG, and fewer things added to the world because they are saved for the cash shop.

Expansion B2P Model → Lots of content because their primary income would depend on it. (Like in gw1).

Aquinas.8421:

Ettanin.8271:

GW2 is already sub based, it’s fee is:
(50 / x) USD a month where x is the number of months you plan to play the game.

Well, the difference is price certainty… but still, this is a good point. This entire discussion comes down to a single concern: value.

GW2 certainly gives you great value, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s more valuable than a subscription. Like you hinted at, if someone bought GW2 for $50, and only played it for a month, he’d get better ($/month) value out of buying a subscription game and playing for 6 months.

What sub game is that, where there’s no with no box price? And leave Freemium out of it.

uknortherner.2670:

Aquinas.8421:

Also, those people that claim “I don’t rent video games” as an argument against subscriptions are ignorant. If you bought GW2, then yes, you’re renting it… your access has an expiration date on it, just like any subscription. It’s just longer (which goes back to the value argument.)

Only partly true. I can play the game as long as the servers remain up, not until I stop handing over money. That’s where the rent analogy comes into it.

Sure, you’re talking about price certainty, which I also brought up in my post and has definitely has value to a great number of people.

But all you’re doing is basically paying up front for a lifetime sub because, in the end, you don’t “own the game” anymore than a subscriber owns their game. You’re “renting” it just as much as you’d “rent” a subscription game. The only difference is the actual cost and time (i.e. value).

IndigoSundown.5419:

Aquinas.8421:

Ettanin.8271:

GW2 is already sub based, it’s fee is:
(50 / x) USD a month where x is the number of months you plan to play the game.

Well, the difference is price certainty… but still, this is a good point. This entire discussion comes down to a single concern: value.

GW2 certainly gives you great value, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s more valuable than a subscription. Like you hinted at, if someone bought GW2 for $50, and only played it for a month, he’d get better ($/month) value out of buying a subscription game and playing for 6 months.

What sub game is that, where there’s no with no box price? And leave Freemium out of it.

I don’t know of any, but I don’t see your point either.

If you’re questioning my math here it is (I did say cost per month above):

GW2: 1 month at $50 = $50/month
Subscription Game: 6 months at $60 + $15×5 = $22.50/month

Value is inherent in how much you enjoy and use a thing. Just because something is cheap/free doesn’t mean it’s valuable. Some people might see great value in GW2, others may not… it’s an individual decision.

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

Oh so the pick doesn’t give a bonus now?
The booster packs no longer boost ?

EDIT: It makes no difference how the items are obtained via the store you pay.

It gives no bonus towards any form of competition, and thus no advantage.
Boosters increase the speed at which you do things, not the level which you can achieve.

This is not a racing game, therefore the rate at which you acquire something is irrelevant to other players. I cannot use my pick to beat you, nor can you use your Karma Booster to beat me.

Pick gives a bonus and thus has an advantage.
boosters do just that and are an advantage.

Explain exactly how I can beat you with my pick.
Pick any “p2w” item of your choice and explain exactly how it can be used by you to beat me at anything in the game.

You have to be able to use something to win in order for that something to be a P2W item.

Ok for the point of discussion i choose gold, say we have 2 players equal in abilities and both just hit level 80, they both camp bosses together for dragonite ore, one of them buys gold and gets all the time gated ascended mats and makes full ascended weapons and armor, these two players then fight, being both equal in skill the ascended one will win.

Cash shops are here to stay. I predict it’ll only be a matter of months before the celebrated ESO goes to some version of F2P/Hybrid model. I really wouldn’t pay monthly for this game, no. Can’t think of any MMOs right now that are worth 10-15 bucks a month.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Cash shops are here to stay. I predict it’ll only be a matter of months before the celebrated ESO goes to some version of F2P/Hybrid model. I really wouldn’t pay monthly for this game, no. Can’t think of any MMOs right now that are worth 10-15 bucks a month.

^This. There’s a reason many MMOs like SWTOR, TERA, DCU etc all went F2P. Sub doesn’t necessarily work out as there usually isn’t enough content to justify the sub, so the players cancel their sub and move on to the next game.

Weregild.3596:

All you guys that geniuely love this game that say you would quit if there was a sub fee are nuts. With a sub fee the devs get paid and spend the entire month figuring out how to make the game more fun and more engaging. With a cash-shop the devs spend the entire month figuring out how to get you to buy things in the cash-shop.
As it stands this game is no better than asian f2ps…they just figured out a way to spin it in a more appealing way.

I love the game but would stop playing if a fee got added. Because I can’t afford it. I can justify a 1 time fee because chances are GW2 will be around for at least a couple of years. I can set aside money to put towards that without breaking the bank.

So please don’t speak for me.

I’m also a person that doesn’t always have a lot of free time, much less for games. A subscription fee wouldn’t be worth the time I spend in game lately. I’d stop playing.

You forget about less world drops and more specific drops.

But no I would not pay a subscription. I would however be very willing to buy an expansion every year / year and a half to get this. The way Anet marketed GW2 (“B2P!” not “Micro-transactions!”) and it’s name it had with GW1 was also my main reason to buy GW2.

Sadly the focus on micro-transactions has been destroying this game.

mesme.5028:

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

Oh so the pick doesn’t give a bonus now?
The booster packs no longer boost ?

EDIT: It makes no difference how the items are obtained via the store you pay.

It gives no bonus towards any form of competition, and thus no advantage.
Boosters increase the speed at which you do things, not the level which you can achieve.

This is not a racing game, therefore the rate at which you acquire something is irrelevant to other players. I cannot use my pick to beat you, nor can you use your Karma Booster to beat me.

Pick gives a bonus and thus has an advantage.
boosters do just that and are an advantage.

Explain exactly how I can beat you with my pick.
Pick any “p2w” item of your choice and explain exactly how it can be used by you to beat me at anything in the game.

You have to be able to use something to win in order for that something to be a P2W item.

Ok for the point of discussion i choose gold, say we have 2 players equal in abilities and both just hit level 80, they both camp bosses together for dragonite ore, one of them buys gold and gets all the time gated ascended mats and makes full ascended weapons and armor, these two players then fight, being both equal in skill the ascended one will win.

Didn’t pay to win. Paid to speed up acquisition of top gear. The player who didn’t pay can still get the top gear and will be equal.

Your example fails to illustrate your point.

Pay to Win requires you to be able to pay to win, not pay to jump to the front of the line.

i play GW2 because it is Buy-to-Play, and not Subs-to-Play…

i do not play Final Fantasy XIV : A Realm Reborn because it is Subs-to-Play, and will be most likely not playing ESO as well due to it going to be Subs-to-Play.

so to answer OPs question, the answer is no.

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

Oh so the pick doesn’t give a bonus now?
The booster packs no longer boost ?

EDIT: It makes no difference how the items are obtained via the store you pay.

It gives no bonus towards any form of competition, and thus no advantage.
Boosters increase the speed at which you do things, not the level which you can achieve.

This is not a racing game, therefore the rate at which you acquire something is irrelevant to other players. I cannot use my pick to beat you, nor can you use your Karma Booster to beat me.

Pick gives a bonus and thus has an advantage.
boosters do just that and are an advantage.

Explain exactly how I can beat you with my pick.
Pick any “p2w” item of your choice and explain exactly how it can be used by you to beat me at anything in the game.

You have to be able to use something to win in order for that something to be a P2W item.

Ok for the point of discussion i choose gold, say we have 2 players equal in abilities and both just hit level 80, they both camp bosses together for dragonite ore, one of them buys gold and gets all the time gated ascended mats and makes full ascended weapons and armor, these two players then fight, being both equal in skill the ascended one will win.

Didn’t pay to win. Paid to speed up acquisition of top gear. The player who didn’t pay can still get the top gear and will be equal.

Your example fails to illustrate your point.

Pay to Win requires you to be able to pay to win, not pay to jump to the front of the line.

The example holds up, 2 peeps fight one wins due to buying said items, but i think we will have to just disagree, as you just cant except paying for an advantage no matter how long you hold it is indeed p2w.

If there was a 10€ month sub I would quit the game the same second. Besides, I doubt that it would make the gem store disappear, why would a company get rid of extra income? o.O

mtpelion.4562:

mesme.5028:

Oh so the pick doesn’t give a bonus now?
The booster packs no longer boost ?

EDIT: It makes no difference how the items are obtained via the store you pay.

It gives no bonus towards any form of competition, and thus no advantage.
Boosters increase the speed at which you do things, not the level which you can achieve.

The game’s economy is competitive not cooperative and so any purchasable that provides any form of economic advantage can be argued, with merit, to be a form of pay to win.

Personally I do not subscribe to that position, but it has some merit.

mtpelion.4562:

Didn’t pay to win. Paid to speed up acquisition of top gear. The player who didn’t pay can still get the top gear and will be equal.

Your example fails to illustrate your point.

Pay to Win requires you to be able to pay to win, not pay to jump to the front of the line.

In the example given one player won because he paid. The fact that the other player can eventually achieve similar levels of success does not change that fact. In addition, all other things being equal, the player who paid will always have a better win loss ratio. He will have won more, due to having paid.

mtpelion.4562:

Some words have actual meanings, and they apply regardless of what some players wish they meant. “Winning” is such a word.

Webster’s lists, “actual meanings,” (AKA definitions) that support those with whom you disagree. “Win,” is defined more broadly than you seem to claim.

mesme.5028:

The example holds up, 2 peeps fight one wins due to buying said items, but i think we will have to just disagree, as you just cant except paying for an advantage no matter how long you hold it is indeed p2w.

You aren’t going to win this argument with someone who deals in absolutes. Just let the close minded among us keep their opinions and carry on in your daily life.

Just let him think he’s right and then he’s happy and you can be happy as well. Knowledge is power.

Aeonblade.8709:

mesme.5028:

The example holds up, 2 peeps fight one wins due to buying said items, but i think we will have to just disagree, as you just cant except paying for an advantage no matter how long you hold it is indeed p2w.

You aren’t going to win this argument with someone who deals in absolutes. Just let the close minded among us keep their opinions and carry on in your daily life.

Just let him think he’s right and then he’s happy and you can be happy as well. Knowledge is power.

They should agree to disagree. Because neither will win the argument and both sides are right when you use that side’s definition of P2W. And both definitions are correct as different groups of people have different and valid views on what constitutes winning.

Meehael.8240:

So, would you pay $10 a month for the game if the Gem Store ceases to exist, no need to buy bag and bank slots, expand this, expand that. Pay for boosters of various kind. Buy unlimited mining picks. What not…
That would probably also include less time gating, maybe a bit higher drop rates… You name it!

In short, you get a full service for $10 a month. I’d say if the game’s good, I’d pay that money.

Couple of thoughts:

1) If GW2 went subscription now, it would change the game in a way that may not be a positive direction. There are lots of assumptions floating around about how subscription would benefit the future development of GW2 in positive way. I’m not convinced that would actually happen..

2) If GW2 had been subscription from the start, yes, I would have signed up for it. Even though that would have meant that had it been that way from the start, it would have attracted a different set of players and probably had a different culture. I would have saved an incredible amount of money however.

3) Looking at GW2 as it is now, I would not pay subscription fee for what the game has devolved into from both a content and quality perspective.

frans.8092:

Buy something benign like transmutation crystals (who hasn’t), ding, these gems were bought with real money – even when you buy them with in-game gold.

Can you elaborate on that?

Aeonblade.8709:

mtpelion.4562:

Aeonblade.8709:

PvP isn’t winning for everyone. A lot of people don’t even play it. Winning in this game can be gold, skins, PvP, achievements, all kinds of stuff, and it varies player to player.

No. Absolutely incorrect.

You cannot win at playing dress up. You can only win where objective criteria are present for determining who has won and who has lost.

This is your opinion, and I respect that even if I disagree. To have unique skins for some people is winning in a game, whether you recognize it or not, in their mind it’s winning. Open your mind, think outside the box that developers have created for you to play in.

I don’t think playing dress up is winning either, but I respect the fact that some people do feel that way. It’s up to you whether or not to realize that.

I agree. Winning can be different things for different players. I, for ex, like to show off my titles and items. That’s a win for me. Luckily for me, I don’t have to pay real money (if I don’t want to) to get those.

Edit: Dressing, specifically, can too be a win, but it is debatable if skins on the gem store are actually prettier that those available outside the gem store. But still, like I said in the post below, for a sub-based mmo, there shouldn’t be a gem store or the like, at all.

mtpelion.4562:

Aeonblade.8709:

This is your opinion, and I respect that even if I disagree. To have unique skins for some people is winning in a game, whether you recognize it or not, in their mind it’s winning. Open your mind, think outside the box that developers have created for you to play in.

I don’t think playing dress up is winning either, but I respect the fact that some people do feel that way. It’s up to you whether or not to realize that.

If we allow arbitrary and subjective criteria for “winning”, then every game ever made is P2W and the entire argument against P2W is invalid.

Some words have actual meanings, and they apply regardless of what some players wish they meant. “Winning” is such a word.
Those players may get more enjoyment out of playing dress up, but they cannot ever win by doing it.

OK, but you do understand that by paying a subscription, all the items should be obtainable in-game somehow, and an item mall should not be in the game!

Always seemed to me that the pay per month community was subjected to the biggest con ever. Not only did you have to pay for the disk, but had to pay per month. If those business models had charged two or three hundred bucks just for the game out of the box and said it was then free, it would never have gotten off the ground. Thankfully Anet saw through this emperors new cloths, and created a successful business model which went against the trend. So for me, 100% no to monthly subs, and if I do moan now and again, its because I love this game, if I didn’t , I wouldn’t even bother coming on forums.

GW2 has completely sold me on the idea that cash shops, as a sole income source, ruin games, because the game is completely geared around getting you to spend money there (essentially, pay-to-win or pay-to-have fun). Moreover, when the company sells gold to its customers for real money, it completely unlevels the playing field for their players.

Devs need to focus on making good content and improving the game. For this, I’ll pay a sub, and gladly. After seeing what’s happened with GW2’s gem store funnel, and what happened to a few other games that changed from sub to “FTP with Cash Shop”, I will forevermore only play games that have subs. If those games aren’t fun, I’ll simply un-sub. I want a quality gaming experience where I can focus on having fun with my characters, not something that’s obnoxious unless I continually visit the store.

The pay-to-have-fun fits better than the P2W argument which is where my views were, but, now have the consensus that it’s P2HF gaming.

I would not play if there was a sub. On principle.

However, I would sub to a premium service.

Such as a $15/mo sub that gave you something along the lines of a special subscriber black lion chest that had a pool of higher end items like make-over kits, fine trans crystals, ticket scraps, butler golem, and maybe reasonable odds (1:75?) at whatever the LS items are for that month, or gem allotment that evens out the value of each months chest (as in high value items = small gem allotment. Lower value items = higher gem allotment).

That would have value for me. Anet could count on my money every month and I would end up saving more money per year, or less time farming gold and waiting for a favorable exchange rate.

As it is now, I have no problem spending money in the gem store. Usually $20 or so at a time depending on whats there (never keys). Anet doesn’t know when they are going to get that money, they cant budget around expecting that money. They don’t know when people that usually buy gems might be going on hiatus from the game, and skewing projections.

I don’t see such a service as evil or unfair at all. I see it as a straight up trade. Anet can budget knowing they have x dollars every month at the least from subscribers. In return subscribers get the things they were probably going to buy eventually anyways at a discount.

If GW2 went subscription-based or implemented “premium accounts”:

I would…

• …never log in again
• …immediately uninstall my game
• …record myself melting my game packaging, installation CD and all my other ArenaNet merchandise with a blow torch and would then upload it to YouTube.
• …never be a patron of any game or product that ArenaNet and its related companies currently has released or may release in the future.

Now, true expansions ala Guild Wars 1 finally being released…those I would gladly purchase and would restore a little of my faith in the company and its direction.

Meehael.8240:

So, would you pay $10 a month for the game if the Gem Store ceases to exist, no need to buy bag and bank slots, expand this, expand that. Pay for boosters of various kind. Buy unlimited mining picks. What not…
That would probably also include less time gating, maybe a bit higher drop rates… You name it!

In short, you get a full service for $10 a month. I’d say if the game’s good, I’d pay that money.

I’m going to go a little off topic here. Rant incoming.

I don’t understand. Every subscription based MMO I’ve played had a cash shop in it too.

Aion was pay to play, and it had a cash shop. You could only buy black and white dye for your armor with real cash. There were a couple of weapon/armor skins too in their cash shop that you had to buy with real life money if you wanted them. There was no money conversion either. So even if you had a ton of “kinah” (in game money), you couldn’t buy things out of the cash shop. Cash shop was credit card only.

Tera was pay to play, and it had a cash shop. Want a cool mount that moves faster than the in game mounts? $25.00. Twenty-five real life dollars. There also was no conversion system in that game either, so even if you had tons of in game money, you couldn’t convert it to real life money to buy things out of the cash shop. The only thing you could do was use game money to pay off your monthly subscription.

Let’s look at a few other popular MMOs-

WoW is still pay to play and has a cash shop.
Lord of the Rings Online, when it was subscription based, had a cash shop – still does.
Eve Online, which is subscription based, has a cash shop.
Oh look, Rift was subscription based, and had a cash shop – still does.
Star Wars, The Old Republic was sub based and had a cash shop. Still has a cash shop.

Oh, hate to burst this bubble even more, but The Elder Scrolls online will be subscription based, and have a cash shop.

Why do people think that if an MMO is subscription based, they won’t have cash shops? I think Anets cash shop is very fair. Most everything in it is cosmetic and unnecessary. If you can’t buy it with real $, you can always convert gold to gems. Best cash shop in a game I’ve seen so far. Now, if we could only get rid of the BLTC RNG boxes in it, then it would be perfect.

WatchTheShow.7203:

Meehael.8240:

So, would you pay $10 a month for the game if the Gem Store ceases to exist, no need to buy bag and bank slots, expand this, expand that. Pay for boosters of various kind. Buy unlimited mining picks. What not…
That would probably also include less time gating, maybe a bit higher drop rates… You name it!

In short, you get a full service for $10 a month. I’d say if the game’s good, I’d pay that money.

I’m going to go a little off topic here. Rant incoming.

I don’t understand. Every subscription based MMO I’ve played had a cash shop in it too.

Aion was pay to play, and it had a cash shop. You could only buy black and white dye for your armor with real cash. There were a couple of weapon/armor skins too in their cash shop that you had to buy with real life money if you wanted them. There was no money conversion either. So even if you had a ton of “kinah” (in game money), you couldn’t buy things out of the cash shop. Cash shop was credit card only.

Tera was pay to play, and it had a cash shop. Want a cool mount that moves faster than the in game mounts? $25.00. Twenty-five real life dollars. There also was no conversion system in that game either, so even if you had tons of in game money, you couldn’t convert it to real life money to buy things out of the cash shop. The only thing you could do was use game money to pay off your monthly subscription.

Let’s look at a few other popular MMOs-

WoW is still pay to play and has a cash shop.
Lord of the Rings Online, when it was subscription based, had a cash shop – still does.
Eve Online, which is subscription based, has a cash shop.
Oh look, Rift was subscription based, and had a cash shop – still does.
Star Wars, The Old Republic was sub based and had a cash shop. Still has a cash shop.

Oh, hate to burst this bubble even more, but The Elder Scrolls online will be subscription based, and have a cash shop.

Why do people think that if an MMO is subscription based, they won’t have cash shops? I think Anets cash shop is very fair. Most everything in it is cosmetic and unnecessary. If you can’t buy it with real $, you can always convert gold to gems. Best cash shop in a game I’ve seen so far. Now, if we could only get rid of the BLTC RNG boxes in it, then it would be perfect.

Aion? Tera? Rift? Lotro? Those games aren’t actually a positive example, if you get my meaning. I’m not sure if cash shop was the culprit of their downfall, but it could be one of the factors. Regarding EVE, I played that game for a long time and stuff in there is exclusively cosmetic. But even all that cosmetic thing is only to be seen on your profile pic, because there is no walking around and showing off your new clothes (at the time I played the game).

It’s going to be very interesting to see how ESO will fare among competition.

I’ve never played a sub-based game, and never will. Btw, if GW2 were to go P2P, I doubt they’d give us :

Meehael.8240:

no need to buy bag and bank slots, expand this, expand that. Pay for boosters of various kind. Buy unlimited mining picks. What not…
That would probably also include less time gating, maybe a bit higher drop rates..

No, I support the game when I can afford to by buying gems.

If it had a monthly sub, I’d be gone. I’d also feel bad for not playing ever day, Like I’m wasting money.

I hate subs, they feel like another bill, you can get everything gemstore wise, in game, with patience. Fantastic of arenanet to do this.

Karizee.8076:

I don’t rent games.

All hail the Guild Wars marketing slogan 2014!

Sub fees make me feel like my characters are being held hostage.

I think GW2 has about the best business model for an MMO game ever. For the price of the box, I got the game and free regular updates. With a little patience, I can convert gold and get everything that’s for offer in the gemstore. I’m never good at making tons of money in games (since I like spending it!), but 50-70 gold or so is not hard at all, if you sell the crafting mats you acquire while doing stuff.

I don’t like gamble boxes, so I don’t buy Black Lion keys. Of course I’ve bought a bundle of 5 twice or thrice, just to see. And the meagre contents of those chests confirmed that I didn’t like gamble boxes, what a waste of gold! But that was entirely my fault! :P

Too bad that the new weapons are often in those chests – and oh no no no, I don’t buy keys anymore! -but then again if I save a bit, I can just get them off of the TP if I really want them.

Anyways! If GW2 would have started with a subscription fee, I would probably have subbed (after checking out the free month that the box would come with), since I like this game a lot! But going from B2P to sub would be a rrrrrrreally bad move, and one I don’t think they would make, since it literally smashes one of their main marketing points to bits.

If it went that way, I’d still like the game – but I would only sub once in a while (and definitely not continuously).

To be honest no. After experiencing the game without subs. I could never justify paying for subs for a game anymore.

Sometimes I work a lot and have no energy/time to play for days, if it was like the old pay-sub days I’d feel terrible to only play like 3 days out of the month I paid for. Thats also a reason I supremely enjoyed a hourly subscription fee that my first MMO had, sadly they got rid of it after quite a few years.

I feel much better knowing I can experience the game at any moment without having a paywall blocking me, or wasting my money because I don’t know how hectic work is going to be a month in advance.