Guild Wars 2

Will this post get deleted because of the title?
Probably not. And this is what I want to bring up.

I find that the word “noob” should be looked at as a “bad word” and regarded as such. The word is always used in an offensive context and, in my eyes at least, is no better than other offensive words that do get censored or are enough reason to report a person. So I purpose that “noob” be added to that list.
Censoring it perhaps is not needed as the word as such isn’t harmful. But the use of it, should be enough to report a person (like it is with other bad words), especially if it is used to offend someone.

I believe that the online community has existed long enough and is by now large enough to start adding to the rules of communication we have taken from the real world.

Discuss.

Well, like Joanie came up with ‘Dren’, they could filter it as ‘Boon’, which is clearly a good thing? Though, that might get confusing.

nab, nub, scrub, baddie, newb etc

You going to censor all of them?

Noob comes from newbie as far as I know which means inexperienced/doesnt know how to do something specific where the word is being used. Its kind of a negative opinion about the person who is called such.
Its nowhere as “bad word” as the ones which are censored/hars enough to be reported for. It would look kinda childish to make even this word reportable… Whats next, we all know what we mean when we say kitten so lets censor and report ppl for that too?

No.

While I generally oppose censorship as a principle, the application of the word “noob” is simply too recent, modern, and varied to be defined as a “bad word.” Most of the bad words in our modern vocabulary have at least a century or more of development under social and cultural structures that colored them as “offensive.”

“Noob” simply means “new player.” Half of the time I see it used (if not more), it is used by people to describe themselves, like when doing a dungeon with a PUG: “hey guys, i’m a noob at this path.”

Of the remaining uses, maybe half (a quarter overall) are used ironically, or otherwise in a humorous or good-natured fashion.

The remaining time (mostly in SPvP I find) it is used as a derogatory term. But I would remind you that even perfectly innocent words, like, “Little girl” can be used in a derogatory context. The fact that a word can be used maliciously does not in itself make the word subject to censorship. Compare “noob” to a word that starts with the same letter and ask it is really justified to compare them.

Only noobs are offended by the word noob.

Maybe we should censor “bad”, “incompetent” and “pug” too. These naughty words hurt my feelings.

If Noob is filtered out, how do I curse at myself when I make a rookie mistake?

We already censor way too much. Carebear Wars, sure, but there should be a limit.

This is absolutely your biggest problem in the game?

Thanks for the laugh, noob!

I call myself a noob when I’m new at something >.> ……………………………seriously, there are more offensive words.

Soa Cirri.6012:

Compare “noob” to a word that starts with the same letter and ask it is really justified to compare them.

When I was writing this topic, this is the word I was comparing to in my head.
And I dont know where you live but from my personal experience 90% of times I hear someone using “noob” it is in an offensive context and aimed against new players who may not know all the tricks yet. And I find that annoying.
As to if it is as bad as the other N word. No it’s not, if it was it would be a “bad word” already obviously. My point is that this word is used alot like a bad word and should be regarded as such as it’s common usage is to offend someone.

Only noobs are offended by the word noob.

I disagree, I for one am disturbed when someone in my party intentionally offends someone else.

Maybe we should censor “bad”, “incompetent” and “pug” too. These naughty words hurt my feelings.

Well, “bad” can and is used in many different contexts. Its a different word in the sense that it is not reserved for offensive context, same for “incompetent”. “Pug” I have never seen in a sentence where someone tries to deliberately offend someone with the word, its rather used to describe a group

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

This is absolutely your biggest problem in the game?

Thanks for the laugh, noob!

No, it is not the biggest but it’s the one not looked at and as such I decided to bring it up.
By the way, thanks for proving my point about context

Thanks for ideas though.

Arent we already mature enough to not get our heads up in the clouds over such senseless stuff?

Khadez.4958:

As to if it is as bad as the other N word. No it’s not, if it was it would be a “bad word” already obviously.

My point, thank you for illustrating it.

We should censor “Bible”, “Fetus”, “Bread”, and “Ice Cream” because as a pro-choice atheist on a low-carb diet, I find those terms offensive.

And “I play how i want” along with “heal” and “tank”.

Nood is rarelly used offensively, maybe that’s just your personnal issue.

See it as a kind of self-description

Soa Cirri.6012:

Khadez.4958:

As to if it is as bad as the other N word. No it’s not, if it was it would be a “bad word” already obviously.

My point, thank you for illustrating it.

My point is that the fact that it is not a bad word yet does not mean we should not think about it’s use and where it’s going.
The N word has not always been a bad word

Miku Lawrence.6329:

And “I play how i want” along with “heal” and “tank”.

Nood is rarelly used offensively, maybe that’s just your personnal issue.

As I said, from personal experience (dungeon runs mostly), I see it being thrown around a lot. And almost always in an offensive context.

kitten . a → r → s → e. kitten . No thanks, the filter is sharp enough.

Khadez.4958:

Soa Cirri.6012:

Khadez.4958:

As to if it is as bad as the other N word. No it’s not, if it was it would be a “bad word” already obviously.

My point, thank you for illustrating it.

My point is that the fact that it is not a bad word yet does not mean we should not think about it’s use and where it’s going.
The N word has not always been a bad word

There’s always going to be words people use in a way you don’t like.

Either block(don’t socialise with) those people or ignore it. It’s just a word. Only you can let it offend you, not the user.

Taygus.4571:

Khadez.4958:

Soa Cirri.6012:

Khadez.4958:

As to if it is as bad as the other N word. No it’s not, if it was it would be a “bad word” already obviously.

My point, thank you for illustrating it.

My point is that the fact that it is not a bad word yet does not mean we should not think about it’s use and where it’s going.
The N word has not always been a bad word

There’s always going to be words people use in a way you don’t like.

Either block(don’t socialise with) those people or ignore it. It’s just a word. Only you can let it offend you, not the user.

As I said earlier. Its not me that this is aimed towards. Its usually aimed towards newer people in a group I’m in a dungeon with. I’m not bringing this up because I am offended, I’m bringing this up because I don’t like how offensive and arrogant people get away with it.

Personally I kick people out of my party if they should use any offensive words or call someone a ‘noob’. There are simply more constructive ways to tell someone who is new what to do with their skills than simple ‘noob’. It’s not helpful, it’s always meant as an insult. Kick=problem solved.

I’d probably say no, but only because I actually use the word ‘noob’ as a bit of a playful jab at my fellow PUG members, as in “It’s okay, we were all noobs once. ;D”

You might censor out a word, but creative people are always going to find a way to insult others (as reference, please see the whole of human history. :P)

You wanna censor my guild’s name ? Well thanks for being so uncaring :c

Khadez.4958:

Taygus.4571:

Khadez.4958:

Soa Cirri.6012:

Khadez.4958:

As to if it is as bad as the other N word. No it’s not, if it was it would be a “bad word” already obviously.

My point, thank you for illustrating it.

My point is that the fact that it is not a bad word yet does not mean we should not think about it’s use and where it’s going.
The N word has not always been a bad word

There’s always going to be words people use in a way you don’t like.

Either block(don’t socialise with) those people or ignore it. It’s just a word. Only you can let it offend you, not the user.

As I said earlier. Its not me that this is aimed towards. Its usually aimed towards newer people in a group I’m in a dungeon with. I’m not bringing this up because I am offended, I’m bringing this up because I don’t like how offensive and arrogant people get away with it.

Ok, send my post to those newer players that get offended,

If you think people are being rude, block and report and encourage these newer players that you’re so righteously defending to do the same.

Its a word, really, we cant block every word in the dictionary because some people are rude. May as well block wth and omg while you’re at it fs and c’mon! oh and ltp

Khadez.4958:

My point is that the fact that it is not a bad word yet does not mean we should not think about it’s use and where it’s going.
The N word has not always been a bad word

I vehemently disagree with that assertion, but this is hardly the place to get into such a discussion. You admit that it is “not a bad word yet.” So you’re saying that you expect it to be evolving into an offensive word?

This suggests we should ban every word that has the potential to be offensive. “PUG” could be a bad word with its connotations of being inconsistent and often disappointing. “Hambow” I often see being used in a derogatory manner. Shall we expect that some day in a hundred years people will be fired from CNN and NBC for using or alluding to such terms, or that celebrities will drunkenly spill out of their cars and use them as slurs against a policeman?

Khadez.4958:

As I said, from personal experience (dungeon runs mostly), I see it being thrown around a lot. And almost always in an offensive context.

Azrael.4960:

If Noob is filtered out, how do I curse at myself when I make a rookie mistake?

Taygus.4571:

I call myself a noob when I’m new at something

Enaretos.8079:

You wanna censor my guild’s name ?

Most other people who have used the word “noob” in this thread have done so ironically. The problem is, it stops being clever after the first usage, but many won’t realize that.

Soa Cirri.6012:

But I would remind you that even perfectly innocent words, like, “Little girl” can be used in a derogatory context.

Isn’t even “kitten” used in that way now and then ? Now how should they censor that ?
Or maybe the whole forum should be shut down because it insults us all the time as “kittens”

Soa Cirri.6012:

Khadez.4958:

My point is that the fact that it is not a bad word yet does not mean we should not think about it’s use and where it’s going.
The N word has not always been a bad word

I vehemently disagree with that assertion, but this is hardly the place to get into such a discussion. You admit that it is “not a bad word yet.” So you’re saying that you expect it to be evolving into an offensive word?

What I meant was that while the word it self has always had the offensive meaning, it hasn’t always been regarded as a “bad word”.
Also do the point that people use it in a non-offensive context here is because the topic of the post kind of calls for that. There was a person above who also used it in an offensive context.

And I don’t think that it should be regarded as a “bad word” in real life, mainly because it doesn’t make a lot of sense there. More so with “Hambow” and what else you suggested.

This all still doesn’t mean that the word and it’s use should be overlooked in virtual environments.

Also, to be sure I’ll say it again, I don’t think it should be censored, it should just be enough to report a person if it is used in an offensive context. Censoring it doesn’t make a lot of sense as the word itself is not harmful. I support censoring only those words which leave a negative impact on a person when read. Like regular swear words do when kids read them and add them to their vocabulary.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

“I play how i want”

Oh yes, please censor that. It burns my glorious elitist master race eyes. Filthy casuals!

Just temporarily substract 1% of the stats for each use of the word. If somebody is elite enough to spam it, they can deal with it.

Khadez.4958:

There was a person above who also used it in an offensive context.

I didn’t see anyone using it in an offensive context; I’m pretty sure they were deliberately being ironic, and therein lies the rub. “Noob” is so mutable that to cast it as a “bad word,” a reportable offense, depends a great deal on the interpretation the recipient decides to apply. In many cases the person using the word and the person on the receiving end are the same (as in this thread, already).

If you presume that the word is always meant to be offensive, then any use will offend you. However that presumption is distinct from the word’s true definition and common use. When they align (as with the other word we referred to) then you can call it a “bad word” worth reporting. If we can’t even agree on whether its use in this thread was meant to be offensive or ironic then encouraging people to report the word’s use, based on their own, personal interpretation, will just lend itself to abuse.

Soa Cirri.6012:

Khadez.4958:

There was a person above who also used it in an offensive context.

I didn’t see anyone using it in an offensive context; I’m pretty sure they were deliberately being ironic, and therein lies the rub. “Noob” is so mutable that to cast it as a “bad word,” a reportable offense, depends a great deal on the interpretation the recipient decides to apply. In many cases the person using the word and the person on the receiving end are the same (as in this thread, already).

If you presume that the word is always meant to be offensive, then any use will offend you. However that presumption is distinct from the word’s true definition and common use. When they align (as with the other word we referred to) then you can call it a “bad word” worth reporting. If we can’t even agree on whether its use in this thread was meant to be offensive or ironic then encouraging people to report the word’s use, based on their own, personal interpretation, will just lend itself to abuse.

We must be from different worlds. I run dungeons with random people from LFG tool a lot. And every so often one of them thinks that they are so much better than that other guy and call them a noob in a clearly offensive context. This, I would like to report because I don’t like arrogant people. Especially if they get away without punishment. The problem is that until the use of “noob” in an offensive context is considered “report worthy”, there’s not much I can do.

While I also dislike the derogatory use of the term ‘Noob,’ having it added to the list of disallowed words really won’t help the underlying issue. That’s what really needs to be addressed, not the words being used. Simply filtering the words means that they will take a few extra seconds to either come up with something to bypass the filter, or simply use a different term.

Op should try playing some LoL on the EUW server.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

While I also dislike the derogatory use of the term ‘Noob,’ having it added to the list of disallowed words really won’t help the underlying issue. That’s what really needs to be addressed, not the words being used. Simply filtering the words means that they will take a few extra seconds to either come up with something to bypass the filter, or simply use a different term.

A fair point.
Its difficult to come up with a good mechanic here though.
Perhaps a sort of ranking system where you can at least give the person a “-1” or something then.

Edit:

Op should try playing some LoL on the EUW server.

Ranking system idea was inspired by the system in place in LoL. It seems to work fine there.

Khadez.4958:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

While I also dislike the derogatory use of the term ‘Noob,’ having it added to the list of disallowed words really won’t help the underlying issue. That’s what really needs to be addressed, not the words being used. Simply filtering the words means that they will take a few extra seconds to either come up with something to bypass the filter, or simply use a different term.

A fair point.
Its difficult to come up with a good mechanic here though.
Perhaps a sort of ranking system where you can at least give the person a “-1” or something then.

Edit:

Op should try playing some LoL on the EUW server.

Ranking system idea was inspired by the system in place in LoL. It seems to work fine there.

Simply report the person for abusive language. Its use will be taken into context with the tone of the conversation. If the person is being a jerk, Anet does tend to do something about it. After being temp banned a time or two, people straighten up…at least for a short period of time.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Khadez.4958:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

While I also dislike the derogatory use of the term ‘Noob,’ having it added to the list of disallowed words really won’t help the underlying issue. That’s what really needs to be addressed, not the words being used. Simply filtering the words means that they will take a few extra seconds to either come up with something to bypass the filter, or simply use a different term.

A fair point.
Its difficult to come up with a good mechanic here though.
Perhaps a sort of ranking system where you can at least give the person a “-1” or something then.

Edit:

Op should try playing some LoL on the EUW server.

Ranking system idea was inspired by the system in place in LoL. It seems to work fine there.

Simply report the person for abusive language. Its use will be taken into context with the tone of the conversation. If the person is being a jerk, Anet does tend to do something about it. After being temp banned a time or two, people straighten up…at least for a short period of time.

Do they look into these cases with same seriousness as the cases where a bad word is used? If so then that’s awesome and solves my problem completely.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Noob

Khadez.4958:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Khadez.4958:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

While I also dislike the derogatory use of the term ‘Noob,’ having it added to the list of disallowed words really won’t help the underlying issue. That’s what really needs to be addressed, not the words being used. Simply filtering the words means that they will take a few extra seconds to either come up with something to bypass the filter, or simply use a different term.

A fair point.
Its difficult to come up with a good mechanic here though.
Perhaps a sort of ranking system where you can at least give the person a “-1” or something then.

Edit:

Op should try playing some LoL on the EUW server.

Ranking system idea was inspired by the system in place in LoL. It seems to work fine there.

Simply report the person for abusive language. Its use will be taken into context with the tone of the conversation. If the person is being a jerk, Anet does tend to do something about it. After being temp banned a time or two, people straighten up…at least for a short period of time.

Do they look into these cases with same seriousness as the cases where a bad word is used? If so then that’s awesome and solves my problem completely.

Yes they do. Verbal abuse can occur without having any curse words used. That’s why Anet looks at the conversation as whole, not just instances of words used. It has to be taken into context.

Khadez.4958:

Soa Cirri.6012:

Khadez.4958:

There was a person above who also used it in an offensive context.

I didn’t see anyone using it in an offensive context; I’m pretty sure they were deliberately being ironic, and therein lies the rub. “Noob” is so mutable that to cast it as a “bad word,” a reportable offense, depends a great deal on the interpretation the recipient decides to apply. In many cases the person using the word and the person on the receiving end are the same (as in this thread, already).

If you presume that the word is always meant to be offensive, then any use will offend you. However that presumption is distinct from the word’s true definition and common use. When they align (as with the other word we referred to) then you can call it a “bad word” worth reporting. If we can’t even agree on whether its use in this thread was meant to be offensive or ironic then encouraging people to report the word’s use, based on their own, personal interpretation, will just lend itself to abuse.

We must be from different worlds. I run dungeons with random people from LFG tool a lot. And every so often one of them thinks that they are so much better than that other guy and call them a noob in a clearly offensive context. This, I would like to report because I don’t like arrogant people. Especially if they get away without punishment. The problem is that until the use of “noob” in an offensive context is considered “report worthy”, there’s not much I can do.

I believe there is an option to report someone for simply being offensive. No need to censor the word “noob”. They don’t need to use curse words to be verbally abusive. If the context is clearly offensive, you can report them and a moderator will review the chat log.

There’s an easy solution. Since “noob” is very versatile and can be applied to a lot of different contexts, go by these rules of thumb:

1) If you’re saying you’re new at something, use “newb” or “newbie”, as it is the original form of the word.
2) If you’re using noob jokingly, please put a smiley or “jk!” afterwards.
3) If you’re really calling someone bad, call them bad. Idiot, kitten, scrub, baddie, Stink McStankmaster, etc.; use something more direct so they know you’re not kidding.

Obviously, the only reportable scenario would be #3.

Khadez.4958:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

While I also dislike the derogatory use of the term ‘Noob,’ having it added to the list of disallowed words really won’t help the underlying issue. That’s what really needs to be addressed, not the words being used. Simply filtering the words means that they will take a few extra seconds to either come up with something to bypass the filter, or simply use a different term.

A fair point.
Its difficult to come up with a good mechanic here though.
Perhaps a sort of ranking system where you can at least give the person a “-1” or something then.

Edit:

Op should try playing some LoL on the EUW server.

Ranking system idea was inspired by the system in place in LoL. It seems to work fine there.

You completely missed my point though, which is reasonable considering not everyone plays that game. What i was trying to say is that the LoL EUW sever is the most toxic gaming environment mankind has ever seen so far, yes even worse than cosole CoD players. People wish others to get cancer at least 5 times a day. And that’s not just in low elo but pretty much up to low diamond I. What I’m trying to say is try growing some balls a bit, mature, man up, and understand that people calling other people noobs even if insulting doesn’t really mean anything really. It just shows how childish some people are.
You should not feel insulted by some guy calling you names. (he might be better than you at the game, but he surely isn’t that great of a person).

Noob is different from Newb. Newb is someone who is new to the game but is willing and able to learn. Asking for help, and in a good enviroment getting help, and learns from it. A noob is someone also new to the game, but refuses to listen to advices or directions just for the heck of it, or because he thinks he has superior knowledge of how things work because he looked up a meta build and used it since time immemorioal. Incapable of learning and adapting, they try to warp innocent newbs to their own image with offensive messages and comments, ironicly overusing the term “noob” with hostile intent.

Khadez.4958:

from my personal experience 90% of times I hear someone using “noob” it is in an offensive context and aimed against new players who may not know all the tricks yet. And I find that annoying.

I find it annoying when people jump into a map in WvW and say in map chat “Where’s the zerg?” because it’s aimed at keeping players in WVW unskilled beyond bumbling along in a big group spamming 1 and autolooting. I would like zerg also put on the censored list, please.

Or, I could realize that as a member of a civilization, not everybody is going to cater to my personal feelings about things.

Someone is saying “noob” in a derogatory fashion? Well, then either they’re having a go at someone for not already knowing something, which is mental and should be discounted… or they are unaware of what the word, at root, means. Which makes them a “noob” at vocabulary. You can take a noob calling you a noob just for the irony, can’t you?

I can remember a few people in this game saying we shouldn’t use “pug” to refer to randoms that followed our guild group around for much the same same reasons you’ve listed above.

People need to be less sensitive about what people they don’t know say in situations that don’t matter.

I´d go the whole way. Every inter-player communication should automatically be replaced by the following text: “You are a very skilled player, your understanding of abilities and traits is satisfyingly good, you understand gear choices very well and you manage dodging and other forms of damage mitigation very well. Also, you smell like roses and are very easy on the eyes.”

notebene.3190:

Well, like Joanie came up with ‘Dren’, they could filter it as ‘Boon’, which is clearly a good thing? Though, that might get confusing.

Cue many lulz once people start referring to each other as banoobs.

The thing I love about this game, is that you can discuss pretty much anything, and the majority of the community take it in a mature manor, or they leave. If you start censoring stuff, you start killing the humor in a game.

Noob is only a contraction for “new player”. If you want to censor that, we might as well censor “vet” as a contraction for “veteran player”.

I would say “No offense”, but it seems you get offended over the simplest of things, so I wont bother, but you really need a spine. Banter happens on the internet the same as anywhere else.

I’m using “noob” as an abbreviation to save both you and I the trouble of articulating precisely how bad you are, and how you’re wasting everyone’s time. If you’d rather censor it, I’ll be forced to resort to non-abbreviation.

I can be terse. I can do it quite easily, while still using polite language and completely evading any filter, without actively evading it in the first place. Bad manners are something no censor can ever filter. You’re mistaken in believing that you’ll control thought the way you can control language.

Noob is not a swear word. It’s one fact word that on this game some players do play awfully bad and destroy the experience to people around them, specially when they don’t know and don’t want to know. gr

Khadez.4958:

Will this post get deleted because of the title?
Probably not. And this is what I want to bring up.

I find that the word “noob” should be looked at as a “bad word” and regarded as such. The word is always used in an offensive context and, in my eyes at least, is no better than other offensive words that do get censored or are enough reason to report a person. So I purpose that “noob” be added to that list.
Censoring it perhaps is not needed as the word as such isn’t harmful. But the use of it, should be enough to report a person (like it is with other bad words), especially if it is used to offend someone.

I believe that the online community has existed long enough and is by now large enough to start adding to the rules of communication we have taken from the real world.

Discuss.

suggestion: stop being a noob, or learn to take mild insults. Anyone in the real world definitely deals with worse than being called a “noob” from time-to-time :P