Guild Wars 2

Condition. While suffering from this ailment, you lose Health over time. Disease is contagious between creatures of the same kind. – Guild Wars Wiki

Proposal: Bring Disease to Guild Wars 2

PROS:

• Promotes active gameplay
• Zerg busting
• Supports racial diversity

CONS:

• Potential for racial discrimination in LFG
• Enemy mob AI incapable of combating a Disease mechanic. (Don’t know if this would be as great of an issue as I fear it could be. Enemy mob AI, with all their faults, aren’t nearly as bad at stacking on top of eachother as we are.)
• Toy for griefers

In Guild Wars, Disease was 33% stronger than Bleeding. So if we kept to that, not necessarily saying we should, the equation for Disease in GW2 would be something like this…

(0.05*Condition Damage) + (0.5*Level) + 2.5 * 1.333 per stack per second
(0.05*Condition Damage) + 42.5 * 1.333 per stack per second at Level 80

What do you all think?

Coming from a person who has little knowledge on GW 1, how would this have racial discrimination in LFG? Can this not be cleansed? If not easily I guess I can see why, but if so I doubt it’ll cause in game prejudice toward other classes.

Stacks of disease could still be applied to players if a dungeon run consisted of 1 Human, 1 Charr, 1 Asuran, 1 Sylvari, and 1 Norn. However if a group of humans went in and stacked on eachother… without good condition removal, that may not be a very safe tactic. For the condition would keep stacking on those players because it spreads to “creatures of the same type” when nearby.

I would hope it wouldn’t happen but had to list it regardless. As forming parties of mixed races may be preferred.

I’ve directly seen two times where disease was put in an MMO. So much griefing. SO MUCH. The intent was that the players had to work together to stop the disease. Instead, it became impossible to do anything in cities or anywhere else the griefers could find groups of people to deliberately infect.

Maybe ANet could find a way to make it fun to have any other player’s approach to you trigger paranoia and the need to log out, but I can’t think of one.

Donari.5237:

I’ve directly seen two times where disease was put in an MMO. So much griefing. SO MUCH. The intent was that the players had to work together to stop the disease. Instead, it became impossible to do anything in cities or anywhere else the griefers could find groups of people to deliberately infect.

There will always be griefers. But I would not want those select few individuals to stop any addition like the one I propose, throwing out all the potential benefits of it, just because they would have a new toy to play with.

Disease isn’t a permanent condition. It would have a timer just like the other conditions do. Even if people didn’t run with good condition removal, another good way of combating it is not to stand in a tight group of people (aka zerg). For a group of people just standing afk in an outpost – it wouldn’t be possible for a troll/griefer to run in infected, infect the group, and watch them die from Disease alone.

Mmhmmm…. I thought about it some more. You actually do have a good point, Donari. If the condition kept reapplying to those nearby and they didn’t take active measures to cure themselves – they could eventually die from Disease alone couldn’t they? Hmm… That could be a dilemma. But it would still only really be bad for groups of afkers, right? I mean if even half of a group was aware of what was going on around them, they could scatter and cleanse accordingly.

For those afk groups in outposts/safe zones – Perhaps we could create some sort of triage at each entryway that automatically cleanses disease upon entry?
For those afk groups at large scale events – Well I wouldn’t feel bad for them, personally.

I will add this to the CONS list, however.

I see no reason to add this.
Number in races are quite balanced.
I see loads of people who favor only one race or two max.
Like my friend is making only asura, other only charr, the other one only norn.
Enforcing disease would only kick the Dungeon match ups since people would kick each other for double racing.

They already do that for double profession, except ele, war and guardians.

Tao, disease wouldn’t be game ending. Dungeons would be least effected by adding this condition. Why? Small party of like minded people that are actively playing in that moment.

Disease would be more greatly felt in WvW and general PvE.
Again it is combated with condition removal and by scattering from a group when the condition is applied to them.

As for the racial bit…. You should know that about 60% of all players in GW2 play one race over all the others – Human.

Dungeons will be affected.
And I’ll tell you why.
There are loads, but honestly, loads of people who are heavily inexperienced with this game, even after playing months. What’s more, they hardly understand any basic mechanisms.
After running countless of times the same dungeons, they still are unable to do what their class is supposed to do.
Secondly, not every class is given with a suitable condition cleanse skills.

Hence, that would even enforce people to change some utility skills for that.

If Anet would rework condition cleanse skills just for that – and I’ll tell you, that’s like kittenloads of work, calculation, testing etc, it would affect Condition builds heavily.

That on one hand would come in handy for some people since they hate Condition build users, but it would again, bring some limits to PvP.

Instead of adding something like this, I would rather spread Agony all over the world.

Scale dungeon paths for normal → hard mode, so people who are stick in exotics won’t come bashing here because Agony rip them apart.

Can apply this in wvw for Sieges as well. It would enforce finally people to focus on AoE support, instead of Save Myself attitude.

Additionally this would increase the FotM farms which kinda died for the time being, and would be another nice Gold Sink.

Tao.5096:

Dungeons will be affected.
And I’ll tell you why.

I said Dungeons would be “least” effected, not that they wouldn’t be at all. The whole game would feel this new condition if it were implemented.

Tao.5096:

There are loads, but honestly, loads of people who are heavily inexperienced with this game, even after playing months. What’s more, they hardly understand any basic mechanisms.
After running countless of times the same dungeons, they still are unable to do what their class is supposed to do.

Would not adding Disease improve general inexperience and/or ignorance of proper game/combat mechanics? I don’t see how it would. So what is truly your argument against it here? If anything it could wake more people up to what is going on around them.

Tao.5096:

Secondly, not every class is given with a suitable condition cleanse skills.

Taken from GW2 Wiki:
In addition to conditions, all professions have access to condition removal skills. All professions have a healing skill that provides condition removal apart from the mesmer, who requires Mender’s Purity. For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first. The condition is removed independent of the intensity, so 3 stacks and 25 stacks of bleeding are equivalent when considering condition removal.

Specifics still required? Okay. Here goes… * cracks knuckles *

Skills that remove conditions from self
Weapon skills

• Shadow Return (Thief)
• Magnetic Wave (Ele)
• Phoenix (Ele)

Healing skills

• Signet of Resolve (Guardian)
• Mending (Warrior)
• Ether Renewal (Ele)
• Consume Conditions (Necro)

Utility skills

• Elixir C (Engie)
• Smite Condition (Guardian)
• Contemplation of Purity (Guardian)
• Signet of Stamina (Warrior)
• Signet of Renewal (Ranger)
• Shadow Return (Thief)
• Cleansing Fire (Ele)
• Signet of Water (Ele)
• Prayer to Kormir (Human racial)

Profession mechanics

• Purge Conditions (Ranger)

Skills that remove conditions from allies
Weapon skills

• Cleansing Flame (Guardian)
• Ray of Judgment (Guardian)
• Cleansing Wave (Ele)
• Healing Rain (Ele)

Underwater weapon skills

• Purify (Guardian)
• Purifying Blast (Guardian)

Healing skills

• Cleansing Burst (Engie)
• Drop Antidote (Engie)
• Healing Spring (Ranger)

Utility skills

• Bow of Truth (Guardian)
• Purging Flames (Guardian)
• “Shake It Off!” (Warrior)
• Signet of Agility (Thief)
• Null Field (Mesmer)
• Phantasmal Disenchanter (Mesmer)
• Power Cleanse (Mesmer)

Elite skills

• Purifying Ribbon (Guardian)
• Nature’s Renewal (Ranger)
• Grim Specter (Necro)
• Cleansing Leaves (Human racial)

Profession mechanics

• Fumigate (Engie)
• Super Elixir (Engie)
• Toss Elixir R (Engie)
• Blessing of Kormir (Engie)
• Shake It Off (Ranger)

Combos

• Combo Field: Light × Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
• Combo Field: Light × Combo Finisher: Whirl

Skills that transfer conditions
Weapon skills

• Deathly Swarm (Necro)
• Putrid Mark (Necro)

Utility skills

• “Save Yourselves!” (Guardian)
• Signet of Renewal (Ranger)
• Arcane Thievery (Mesmer)
• Epidemic (Necro)
• Plague Signet (Necro)

Profession mechanics

• Gathering Plague (Necro)

Skills that transform conditions into boons
Utility skills

• Contemplation of Purity (Guardian)
• Elixir C (Engie)
• Well of Power (Necro)

Profession mechanics

• Toss Elixir C (Engie)

Should I add the Trait list that also helps with condition removal/management? Or the Runes? Sigils? Consumables? I can if you want… but I’m now tired of typing.

Tao.5096:

Hence, that would even enforce people to change some utility skills for that.

There are plenty of ways for characters to use the Support mechanic to address any issue that would be brought up because of Disease. Please forgive me for suggesting something to be added to the game that may draw more profession builds away from the strict DPS spectrum and a little bit more towards Support.

I haven’t read everyones replies – but I just want to point out it would be no more zerg busting than any existing spells. AoE has a cap on how many players it can hit, so if you were to introduce Disease into GW2 then it would also have to have a cap on how many players it could hit :/

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I haven’t read everyones replies – but I just want to point out it would be no more zerg busting than any existing spells. AoE has a cap on how many players it can hit, so if you were to introduce Disease into GW2 then it would also have to have a cap on how many players it could hit :/

Not with this condition.

Yes, I would say that for every tick of active Disease it would only affect 5 people (of the same race) nearby. But then those 5 players keep infecting 5 around them. Stacks multiply.
You get the idea.

@ Tao

As for the Agony bit you suggested. Feel free to start a thread concerning that topic. If you want my two cents though – I’d say no to it. Why? Because I’m in Ascended gear but I do not engage in the Fractal rat race, so no Agony resistance on my end. I do however like your idea about Hard Mode – But I have a feeling that will be a long time before we see something like that in GW2. As another player said on a different thread… HM in Guild Wars was introduced near the end of its reign.

I was hoping for more discussion concerning this thread. But it doesn’t look like many people care to even comment. Not one supportive comment too. * shrugs * I tried, I suppose. Was my first attempt at making a suggestion/thread.

This message was brought to you by Azhure – Spreading Disease since 6/28/2014

Azhure.1857:

(0.05*Condition Damage) + 42.5 * 1.333 per stack per second at Level 80

Change that to (5*CD) + 212,5*6,5 per stack per second at level 80 if not moving and/or spamming 1 for too long and together let’s eradicate the zerg

More seriously, it’s a pretty hard thing to balance. Not in dungeons ; but in world events, for exemple, it would spread quickly and might be deadly ; or might not at all if people don’t actively cleanse at once. With this kind of condition you give great potential power. Great, great, great potential power. Depending on how the players react to it, it can mean nthing, or mean the end of the world. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a nice thing if it takes a bit of reaction ; but I’d see it more on the new bosses ANet want to make (you know, the “hardcore” bosses like Wurm since it seems to be their new focus on the matter).

Also, it would add another damage condition. Burning and bleed (and a little poison too) do that. We could maybe see that as a temporary state ; one guy gets disease, which means he can transfer it to others and everything. But while he has disease, he slowly gets affected by it (maybe more quickly if other sick players are around ?) ; he gets slower, chills run down his spine, but it still feels like his body is burning as the disease poisons it, and then he starts agonizing and bleeding… see where I’m going ? Disease could be also be a state using condition. You get sick ; first you’re slower, not much, like 10 percent. But that grows over time, ultimately getting you Crippled. In the meantime, your cooldowns are all rising as the Chill rises ; then the Burning starts, etc. you get my point. I can’t think of a “new” thing to add as a pure condition (they could add a new mechanic to it while they’re at it, like they could add the throw up from the wurm, but honestly getting stunned every 10 seconds like that is just a frustrating move) ; however, as a state (that could still be reversed by condi removals, being primarly focused ; would it need one removal or more, I don’t know, just think-storming here), I think it could be interesting.

Eh, since we go into the jungle tomorrow, let’s imagine. You could have a new boss corrupted by Mordy so it’s not too weird to imagine that it would spread disease ; or more like, spawn things, like I don’t know, just some kind of plants, that would get players sick at each pulse until it’s destroyed.

Just putting what comes to my mind of course. This kind of thing is usually “very” hard to balance for game designers ; often, whether it’s deadly, whether it’s uneffective, because whether the group is efficient whether they suck at removing conditions and end up dead. That would be the point of the disease, after all, and I would perfectly see it being put on new bosses, just not as another damage condition maybe.

However if ANet is integrating this, PLEASE, for the Kitty Lord’s sake, just PLEASE put something to explain to players, don’t let the huge majority fool around for thirty days wondering why everyone flees when they come, just give us a NPC explaining things to people for ONCE.

Edit : I might add ; the reason stacking exists is because mobs are stupid, yes ; and that AoE is GW2. Take Shake It Off ; there are skills that make people want to stack. Yet those skills would still be the thing against disease.

I can definitely foresee a lot of problems implementing something like this but I’m not gonna lie — it sounds interesting nonetheless.

I think with more discussion of it and some modifications to the ideas/solutions to some of the cons a few of you have come up with, this could be a nice addition to GW2.

AnAspieKitten.5732:

More seriously, it’s a pretty hard thing to balance. Not in dungeons ; but in world events, for exemple, it would spread quickly and might be deadly ; or might not at all if people don’t actively cleanse at once. With this kind of condition you give great potential power. Great, great, great potential power. Depending on how the players react to it, it can mean nthing, or mean the end of the world.

Won’t argue the point on balancing difficulty here. Its true, it would be hard. But I think it would be worth it. Keep in mind that if a Charr warrior was to be hit with a skill/spell that inflicted him with Disease – he would only then infect other charr players near him. It wouldn’t be a massive insta-wipe, yet I think it would have just enough impact to spread people out a bit.

So the question would be if Disease is introduced, should skills that use it ever have the ability for AoE Disease spreading? Because if they did then you could very easily make sure that multiple races become infected and that would have a MUCH stronger impact on groups.

AnAspieKitten.5732:

Also, it would add another damage condition. Burning and bleed (and a little poison too) do that. We could maybe see that as a temporary state ; one guy gets disease, which means he can transfer it to others and everything. But while he has disease, he slowly gets affected by it (maybe more quickly if other sick players are around ?) ; he gets slower, chills run down his spine, but it still feels like his body is burning as the disease poisons it, and then he starts agonizing and bleeding… see where I’m going ? Disease could be also be a state using condition. You get sick ; first you’re slower, not much, like 10 percent. But that grows over time, ultimately getting you Crippled. In the meantime, your cooldowns are all rising as the Chill rises ; then the Burning starts, etc. you get my point. I can’t think of a “new” thing to add as a pure condition (they could add a new mechanic to it while they’re at it, like they could add the throw up from the wurm, but honestly getting stunned every 10 seconds like that is just a frustrating move) ; however, as a state (that could still be reversed by condi removals, being primarly focused ; would it need one removal or more, I don’t know, just think-storming here), I think it could be interesting.

Its not just another DPS condition though. Its very unique mechanic is its ability to spread after infection, to other creatures of the same type (within a reasonable radius of the infected). Your state idea is interesting but I would see that more in an environmental condition and/or boss specific condition. Disease has history in Guild Wars and I find that it could have very good uses in GW2.

AnAspieKitten.5732:

…and I would perfectly see it being put on new bosses, just not as another damage condition maybe.

I’m all for better boss mechanics. However I would prefer this condition be made available to all players. Why? Because large scale boss fights are not the only area that is suffering. This condition would make WvW blob vs. blob warfare more interesting too. Yes… I don’t even have the heart to call them zergs as they’ve gone beyond that into the realm of blobs.

AnAspieKitten.5732:

However if ANet is integrating this, PLEASE, for the Kitty Lord’s sake, just PLEASE put something to explain to players, don’t let the huge majority fool around for thirty days wondering why everyone flees when they come, just give us a NPC explaining things to people for ONCE.

Yes. More tutorial features are wanted by many. This thread is actively talking about it, if you are interested. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Do-what-now-or-Why-I-m-not-good-at-this-game/page/4#post4157297

AnAspieKitten.5732:

I might add ; the reason stacking exists is because mobs are stupid, yes ; and that AoE is GW2. Take Shake It Off ; there are skills that make people want to stack. Yet those skills would still be the thing against disease.

Agreed. Enemy AI is atrocious in its current state. However I don’t believe “AoE is GW2” is entirely accurate when it comes to explaining why stacking exists. If AoE were really what made GW2 – then I would argue that you should be able to lay down any AoE skill/spell and hit ALL targets within that wonderful red lined area. Yet we can’t. Why? Because someone or several people decided it was too overpowered. In a game that likes to praise its dodge mechanic and how combat is more fluid, mobile….

Am I the only one that feels like that’s a bad joke?

So we have a system where individuals can safely hide inside of a blob of people and rarely have to worry about dodging, moving, or even thinking outside of the all powerful auto-attack skill. Hell we’re so used to taking advantage of it that less and less people are actually playing. I’ve said it on several threads but I personally know of lots of people that start their auto-attack and then watch TV or play their console system.

I’m not proud of that. Nor do I feel anyone should be. But we as a species tend to take the path of least resistance. The easy route. I’m afraid my speaking out against that and even suggesting Disease and what it may do to zergs may make me a target for those that have become complacent in GW2 combat.

Purple Miku.7032:

I can definitely foresee a lot of problems implementing something like this but I’m not gonna lie — it sounds interesting nonetheless.

I think with more discussion of it and some modifications to the ideas/solutions to some of the cons a few of you have come up with, this could be a nice addition to GW2.

If it can be balanced – yes I think it would be very interesting and worth adding to GW2.

Assuming Disease would infect all races equally, that is, you can catch Disease from race different from yours, this would work as a great anti-zerg mechanism. ANET should definitely look into this at the very least. Great idea OP!

Your “pros” are really lightweight and arguably damaging, while the “cons” are potentially disastrous.

Azhure.1857:

• Promotes active gameplay

How? What is “active gameplay”? I’m either going to get a disease, or I’m not. What do I do, once I have it? I don’t see how yet another ticking DoT is going to make the game better.

Azhure.1857:

• Zerg busting

As we’ve seen from the Boss Blitz event, breaking up a zerg is no easy feat. People will stick to their old habits, even if those habits bring nothing but failure. If you’re going to require the zerg to divide into smaller groups, it’s better to do it through concrete means rather than just saying “don’t zerg, or you die.”

Azhure.1857:

• Supports racial diversity

People have already rolled their characters long ago. You aren’t supporting anything; you’re merely punishing people who play popular races. Nobody’s going to re-roll and level a new character from 1-80 just so they can avoid some added nuisance in a few events that feature another ticking DoT.
Maybe humans are over-represented in the player population. Is that a problem? Is the solution to that “problem” to discourage human characters from participating?

Azhure.1857:

• Potential for racial discrimination in LFG

If you had Disease in dungeons, then yeah, that is exactly what you would find. People will get kicked for playing a human. Or, if people don’t discriminate, the group will wipe because too many people were the same race.
I just don’t understand why you are bringing race into the game mechanics like this. Is this supposed to sound “fun”? Because it sounds like arbitrary, meta-game garbage that will just spread bitterness and contempt throughout the community. A real “disease,” alright.

Azhure.1857:

• Enemy mob AI incapable of combating a Disease mechanic.

Why would they need to deal with it? Will player characters be able to inflict disease, as well? Then ANet will simply start making all groups of mobs be comprised of different races. They’ll have to, or else Disease will become way overpowered, rendering all PvE content a complete joke — as I expect most pre-existing dungeons will be, as they mostly feature a lot of the same race.

Azhure.1857:

• Toy for griefers

See, I don’t even understand how you can still think race-targeting Disease is still worth suggesting, when you yourself have already thought of all these horrible problems it would bring to the game. I don’t even see what the upside is supposed to be, other than “break up zergs” — but there are other ways to do this. It feels like you were just so fanatical about the thought of destroying zergs, that you’re willing to put up with any amount of game-breaking side effects to make it happen.

Vesuvius.9874:

Assuming Disease would infect all races equally, that is, you can catch Disease from race different from yours, this would work as a great anti-zerg mechanism. ANET should definitely look into this at the very least. Great idea OP!

Thank you, Vesuvius.
Disease traditionally only infected others of the same “creature type” as patient zero. Its one reason why bringing Zhed along in Guild Wars was nice. Oh Zhed, how I miss you.

Balance is important here. I don’t know if allowing this condition to spread across the different races is the best idea, if its a good idea from a balance perspective. I just don’t know.

Really bad idea we need some ideas improving gameplay,mechanics not condi which will cause long looking for group . What with www , pvp ? It is just bad idea.

Donari.5237:

I’ve directly seen two times where disease was put in an MMO. So much griefing. SO MUCH. The intent was that the players had to work together to stop the disease. Instead, it became impossible to do anything in cities or anywhere else the griefers could find groups of people to deliberately infect.

Maybe ANet could find a way to make it fun to have any other player’s approach to you trigger paranoia and the need to log out, but I can’t think of one.

free waypoints and armor repairs what do you have to fear from death

Fyrebrand.4859:

Your “pros” are really lightweight and arguably damaging, while the “cons” are potentially disastrous.

You’re entitled to your opinion as much as I’m entitled to my own. I was reticent in responding to you because of the open hostility you seem to have for this. Regardless I’m going to try…

Fyrebrand.4859:

Azhure.1857:

• Promotes active gameplay

How? What is “active gameplay”? I’m either going to get a disease, or I’m not. What do I do, once I have it? I don’t see how yet another ticking DoT is going to make the game better.

Let me clarify what I mean by “active gameplay”.
Active Gameplay = Awareness of a player and his/her surroundings, coupled with the ability to react accordingly in real-time.

How would it promote active gameplay? With disease added to all the other combat mechanics we have, players will be forced to be more active or potentially suffer the consequences. Now I’m sure you’re not going to like that statement, judging by your post. However I equate it to someone getting into a bar fight, getting distracted by a soccer game playing overhead, then getting upset that someone in the bar brawl actually had the nerve to hit them when they weren’t paying attention. I’d say that person had it coming, wouldn’t you?

What would you do if infected? Scatter. Remove conditions on self. Remove conditions on others. Transfer disease back at enemies. Heal. Get back into the fight. All of the above?

You don’t see how it could potentially make the game better. That much is obvious.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Azhure.1857:

• Zerg busting

As we’ve seen from the Boss Blitz event, breaking up a zerg is no easy feat. People will stick to their old habits, even if those habits bring nothing but failure. If you’re going to require the zerg to divide into smaller groups, it’s better to do it through concrete means rather than just saying “don’t zerg, or you die.”

Please keep in mind that I’m not “requiring” anything here. The ability to stack will still be there. However more support functionality will have to be utilized. IF people decided to stay stacked – light fields would start to become welcomed instead of frowned on. Increasing more build diversity towards Support is also a good thing. I also believe you’re fearing disease to be something that would instantaneously kill zergs. Come now… That would be silly and overpowered. You may call me names, you may think ill of me – But please don’t think that I’m not interested in balance.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Azhure.1857:

• Supports racial diversity

People have already rolled their characters long ago. You aren’t supporting anything; you’re merely punishing people who play popular races. Nobody’s going to re-roll and level a new character from 1-80 just so they can avoid some added nuisance in a few events that feature another ticking DoT.
Maybe humans are over-represented in the player population. Is that a problem? Is the solution to that “problem” to discourage human characters from participating?

Its interesting to note that one apparently can’t encourage something without discouraging something else. At least that is your mindset. Am I wrong?

Fyrebrand.4859:

Azhure.1857:

• Potential for racial discrimination in LFG

If you had Disease in dungeons, then yeah, that is exactly what you would find. People will get kicked for playing a human. Or, if people don’t discriminate, the group will wipe because too many people were the same race.
I just don’t understand why you are bringing race into the game mechanics like this. Is this supposed to sound “fun”? Because it sounds like arbitrary, meta-game garbage that will just spread bitterness and contempt throughout the community. A real “disease,” alright.

Again, this condition wouldn’t be so overpowered to be an insta-wipe scenario. The discrimination is indeed possible, as we already have it in other forms, that’s why I chose to list it. I’m not hiding my concerns. My hope would be that because we already have the ability to dodge, move, and cleanse conditions in so many different ways… that this would be a non-issue.

I’m bringing the same Disease mechanic that was present in Guild Wars, Fyrebrand. Its unique aspect was its ability to spread to creatures of the same type. I find it to be a very interesting mechanic and I wanted to open dialogue on its potential uses here in GW2.

Amazingly enough you’re the first person to “spread bitterness and contempt” on this thread. I suppose you just wanted to be first?

Fyrebrand.4859:

Azhure.1857:

• Enemy mob AI incapable of combating a Disease mechanic.

Why would they need to deal with it? Will player characters be able to inflict disease, as well? Then ANet will simply start making all groups of mobs be comprised of different races. They’ll have to, or else Disease will become way overpowered, rendering all PvE content a complete joke — as I expect most pre-existing dungeons will be, as they mostly feature a lot of the same race.

Yes, I was suggesting Disease be a new condition. Not just a new boss mechanic. The enemy AI is a concern. Perhaps if/when disease is reintroduced into the Guild Wars universe they will add more transfer condition or condition to boon skills for enemy mobs? Instead of trusting their ability to scatter….

Fyrebrand.4859:

Azhure.1857:

• Toy for griefers

See, I don’t even understand how you can still think race-targeting Disease is still worth suggesting, when you yourself have already thought of all these horrible problems it would bring to the game. I don’t even see what the upside is supposed to be, other than “break up zergs” — but there are other ways to do this. It feels like you were just so fanatical about the thought of destroying zergs, that you’re willing to put up with any amount of game-breaking side effects to make it happen.

There will always be griefers. They’re like roaches…. very hard to kill. I, however, do not like the idea of letting then stunt any potential game growth.

Tell me honestly, Fyrebrand, if you really think I’m just being a fanatical zerg hater or if I’m not just another gamer that is trying to improve the game (admittedly by suggesting something that would affect a mechanic you’re passionate about)?

VOLTCIEAGE.3029:

Really bad idea we need some ideas improving gameplay,mechanics not condi which will cause long looking for group . What with www , pvp ? It is just bad idea.

Thank you for speaking up, VOLTCIEAGE, even if you don’t like the idea.
Though I still think the benefits listed on my initial post are at least worth considering.

Maybe it would work better if it was more of a “soft” condition?

Let’s say that player characters can pass it to each other, first of all. ANet’s tried to keep race choice from being a limiting factor so far, they wouldn’t want to change that now. Second, let’s say that the effect of “Disease” isn’t a DoT, but rather a reduction in buff duration. Say, 25%? Finally, make Disease the first condition that’s removed, always.

At that point, Disease weakens the players without killing them directly. It can indirectly kill them, however, because it kills their buffs faster and makes it just a bit harder to get rid of any other conditions. This would also allow it to be used on NPC targets, but only those that gain buffs or clear conditions will really feel it. Most of the “trash” ones won’t care.

Donari.5237:

I’ve directly seen two times where disease was put in an MMO. So much griefing. SO MUCH. The intent was that the players had to work together to stop the disease. Instead, it became impossible to do anything in cities or anywhere else the griefers could find groups of people to deliberately infect.

Maybe ANet could find a way to make it fun to have any other player’s approach to you trigger paranoia and the need to log out, but I can’t think of one.

City of Heroes had some problems related to this, and eventually made it so that entering a new zone clears all conditions from you. I see no reason why that would be a bad idea here, and it would limit how far any potentially long lasting condition could travel. Also, for something like this I’d suggest some kind of clear visual marker on the characters that carry it. Turning them green, for example, like the Box of Fun can do.

By far, the most important Pro to Disease is that it punishes zerg gameplay

Anet has been fairly good at its anti-griefing measures in GW2 so this won’t happen unfortunately

A much simpler anti-zerg change would be to instead promote communication for smaller teams i.e. Correctly implement Squads and maybe different colored tags. It’d avoid a rebalancing nightmare as well

Palador.2170:

Maybe it would work better if it was more of a “soft” condition?

Let’s say that player characters can pass it to each other, first of all. ANet’s tried to keep race choice from being a limiting factor so far, they wouldn’t want to change that now. Second, let’s say that the effect of “Disease” isn’t a DoT, but rather a reduction in buff duration. Say, 25%? Finally, make Disease the first condition that’s removed, always.

At that point, Disease weakens the players without killing them directly. It can indirectly kill them, however, because it kills their buffs faster and makes it just a bit harder to get rid of any other conditions. This would also allow it to be used on NPC targets, but only those that gain buffs or clear conditions will really feel it. Most of the “trash” ones won’t care.

Making it a soft condition isn’t a bad idea. It would address fears from the GW2 community towards Disease and my concern for the ability of Enemy AI to handle it would be equally addressed, I think. However by making it a soft condition that would then take away from the “Zerg Busting” benefit. People would still be able to suffer through it and mindlessly zerg without that much change. Maybe I’m wrong and the potential levels of indirect damage would be a good compromise.

The race concern. Its true by making Disease transferrable to all players regardless of race would eliminate the concern towards discrimination, while equally removing the benefit for “racial diversity”. It would be a worthwhile trade-off though, I suppose. I still like the idea behind the racial mechanic and don’t think that any one race would be strictly limited by this. But you do bring up a good point.

Palador.2170:

City of Heroes had some problems related to this, and eventually made it so that entering a new zone clears all conditions from you. I see no reason why that would be a bad idea here, and it would limit how far any potentially long lasting condition could travel. Also, for something like this I’d suggest some kind of clear visual marker on the characters that carry it. Turning them green, for example, like the Box of Fun can do.

Agreed. Conditions in the big cities are a non-issue. But outposts or temporary safe-zones could have some kind of cleansing to them that prevents the spread of such a condition. That’s presuming a person could run so far with an active disease condition without it timing out.

Guild Wars had a pretty clear visual marker for a diseased player, as seen below. My fear would be that it could possibly be mistaken for a Necro …. but lets be honest with ourselves…. who doesn’t want to run away from a Necro when they see one anyways.

Azhure.1857:

Making it a soft condition isn’t a bad idea. It would address fears from the GW2 community towards Disease and my concern for the ability of Enemy AI to handle it would be equally addressed, I think. However by making it a soft condition that would then take away from the “Zerg Busting” benefit. People would still be able to suffer through it and mindlessly zerg without that much change. Maybe I’m wrong and the potential levels of indirect damage would be a good compromise.

Anything harmful enough to break up a zerg will be too powerful to casually use, much less allow to spread through a group of players.

Actually, scratch that! What if it gave a 25% MOVEMENT penalty? I’d almost suggest making everyone infected drop to a walk, but I think -25% would be enough. Imagine that hitting the typical zerg of players, and what would happen.

@ Palador

I’m a believer that zerg warfare is not natural nor should it be supported. I know there are differing opinions in this matter. However if “anything harmful enough to break up a zerg will be too powerful” – Does that mean that the mindless zergfest can never be addressed?

A movement penalty would only affect those players that are already actively playing, while it would do nothing to the large amount of people that just stand there in their blob with auto-attack at its best. At least in PvE that would be the case. If you were talking about WvW zerg vs zerg, then that may actually be effective.

@Azhure

Yeah, I’m thinking more PvP with that one, though it will disrupt some PvE zergs too. You’ll have people getting clear, purging the disease, and taking off for the next fight. By the time the slower ones get there, the fight will be done and people will be moving on. If nothing else, keeping up with the zerg/train will require dealing with the condition when it’s time to move on.

As for addressing the mindless zergfest, no. We can and should address it. However, anything damaging that will break apart a zerg will have to hit really hard, and hit more than just 5 people per use. I jumped in on a Claw of Jormag fight yesterday, and even the attacks it uses don’t stop a zerg. If everyone runs from the fear, they just run right back together again when it’s over. The fallen are quickly picked up, and the fight doesn’t really slow down at all. Zerg busting damage would require an attack so nasty and wide-spread that it would often be the boss’s BEST attack. Everything else would have to be nerfed to compensate for the change.

(Not saying that the Claw fight was done wrong, it is a world boss after all. Just using it as an example.)

I don’t really like the idea of being penalized by what race I am. I’d rather like to catch disease from any other race.

It would be the Corrupted Blood Plague like in WoW all over again. Players and NPCs lying dead everywhere…

Palador.2170:

As for addressing the mindless zergfest, no. We can and should address it. However, anything damaging that will break apart a zerg will have to hit really hard, and hit more than just 5 people per use. I jumped in on a Claw of Jormag fight yesterday, and even the attacks it uses don’t stop a zerg. If everyone runs from the fear, they just run right back together again when it’s over. The fallen are quickly picked up, and the fight doesn’t really slow down at all. Zerg busting damage would require an attack so nasty and wide-spread that it would often be the boss’s BEST attack. Everything else would have to be nerfed to compensate for the change.

(Not saying that the Claw fight was done wrong, it is a world boss after all. Just using it as an example.)

Agreed. S’why I was wondering if a condition like this could stop that from happening. The active players will disperse and cleanse – but will they be so willing to restack all in one blob again afterwards? What if not all players cleansed well and the disease is still running amuck where the zerg was/is standing?

Silver Sea.5314:

I don’t really like the idea of being penalized by what race I am. I’d rather like to catch disease from any other race.

Yet again… Why do you view it as penalizing races?

If Disease were racial – If only one race was initially infected and wasn’t the race you shared, you wouldn’t be affected until your race were to be hit by another skill/spell with disease. Even if we had AoE Disease skills/spells – there are odds of a race getting lucky and not being hit.

If Disease were not racial – Disease would spread far faster and would be deadlier as it stacks as a result.

I’m sorry here but I just don’t understand how this would be penalizing for your race. Keeping it a racial condition would help to keep it balanced and prevent it from being entirely overpowered.

pdavis.8031:

It would be the Corrupted Blood Plague like in WoW all over again. Players and NPCs lying dead everywhere…

Never played WoW and never will. Therefor I don’t know what the “Corrupted Blood Plague” is. Just want to comment that WoW is not the birth of every idea in gaming from its own creation to the end of time.

Azhure.1857:

pdavis.8031:

It would be the Corrupted Blood Plague like in WoW all over again. Players and NPCs lying dead everywhere…

Never played WoW and never will. Therefor I don’t know what the “Corrupted Blood Plague” is. Just want to comment that WoW is not the birth of every idea in gaming from its own creation to the end of time.

I think
the reason he mentioned a WoW game skill is, while many players may have played other MMO’s either before or since WoW’s release, odds are pretty high that MOST of the playerbase has played WoW.

So he picked a game mechanic that chances are most players would be familiar with.

Stiofan.6720:

Simple solution for the “Racial Discrimination” – Remove the “between creatures of the same kind” Let disease transfer between any living creature.

True.
That would effectively remove any racial discrimination that may be created with that mechanic. I just thought it was a very interesting mechanic is all and liked how it worked in Guild Wars.

However since I’m not allowed to discuss Guild Wars – I suppose this is the end of this thread.

EDIT: What are you waiting for, Moderators? Are you going to be consistent or not? Stealth deleting an entire thread without addressing the issue that you created was a real ballsy move. I’ll give you that.

Nerelith.7360:

Azhure.1857:

pdavis.8031:

It would be the Corrupted Blood Plague like in WoW all over again. Players and NPCs lying dead everywhere…

Never played WoW and never will. Therefor I don’t know what the “Corrupted Blood Plague” is. Just want to comment that WoW is not the birth of every idea in gaming from its own creation to the end of time.

I think
the reason he mentioned a WoW game skill is, while many players may have played other MMO’s either before or since WoW’s release, odds are pretty high that MOST of the playerbase has played WoW.

So he picked a game mechanic that chances are most players would be familiar with.

Pretty much

Also the corrupted blood plague was a bug from a raid endboss, that cast “corrupted blood” . Bassicaly it did massive ammounts of condi damage that couldn’t be cleansed, but when you died, it didn’t go away (part of the bug) Also part of the mechanic for “corrupted blood” was that it would be passed on to nearby players. However because of the bug it also passed on to NPCs as well as players. So players revived in town with the plague still active, infecting ALL those around them, player and NPC aslike. So in a matter of hours, whole towns were filled with dead players and NPCs, but then people who had the plague traveled to other towns, and infected even more. There were only a small group of players left in the word uneffected by this plague and they set up quarentine areas just to stay alive. In the end Blizzard had to do entire server resests in order to fix what was going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupted_Blood

this could actually be announced as a necromancer only condition, but will more than likely be used most by thief. remember torment? yeah.

pdavis.8031:

Nerelith.7360:

Azhure.1857:

pdavis.8031:

It would be the Corrupted Blood Plague like in WoW all over again. Players and NPCs lying dead everywhere…

Never played WoW and never will. Therefor I don’t know what the “Corrupted Blood Plague” is. Just want to comment that WoW is not the birth of every idea in gaming from its own creation to the end of time.

I think
the reason he mentioned a WoW game skill is, while many players may have played other MMO’s either before or since WoW’s release, odds are pretty high that MOST of the playerbase has played WoW.

So he picked a game mechanic that chances are most players would be familiar with.

Pretty much

Also the corrupted blood plague was a bug from a raid endboss, that cast “corrupted blood” . Bassicaly it did massive ammounts of condi damage that couldn’t be cleansed, but when you died, it didn’t go away (part of the bug) Also part of the mechanic for “corrupted blood” was that it would be passed on to nearby players. However because of the bug it also passed on to NPCs as well as players. So players revived in town with the plague still active, infecting ALL those around them, player and NPC aslike. So in a matter of hours, whole towns were filled with dead players and NPCs, but then people who had the plague traveled to other towns, and infected even more. There were only a small group of players left in the word uneffected by this plague and they set up quarentine areas just to stay alive. In the end Blizzard had to do entire server resests in order to fix what was going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrupted_Blood

Okay.
Then Disease as I’m suggesting it sounds nothing like that disaster.

Oh of course not, but thats the first thing that comes to mind when I think of a transferable disease. However it was a bug, but im sure it could be done in such a way that something of that scale wouldn’t happen.

yes, please, disease as a new condition,
it ought to be much stronger than poison though.

consider:

Deals damage every second; heal potency decreased by 33%; stacks duration. Disease is contagious between creatures of the same kind.
— In-game description

formula
20 + Level + (0.2 * Condition Damage) per second
100 + (0.2 * Condition Damage) per second at Level 80

so being both poisoned and diseased would mean a -66% to heals.

and disease is twice more damaging than poison.

I like the idea. Quite a bit actually.

No offense, but I think the idea of disease is ridiculous.

Not least because disease is something that people tend to suffer over relatively long periods of time, which clearly isn’t representative of the seconds-to-minutes long combat encounters in Guild Wars 2.

Then there is the issue of what of kind of disease. For example, Parkinson’s Disease —where characters would shake and drop their weapon on every tick? Or Tourret’s Syndrome perhaps, whereby characters would randomly /yell profanities and remain in a ‘stunned’ position. Leprosy, anyone? Rabies?

Is it the idea that you dislike, or just using that name for the idea? We could call it something else, after all.

Pure Heart.1456:

No offense, but I think the idea of disease is ridiculous.

Not least because disease is something that people tend to suffer over relatively long periods of time, which clearly isn’t representative of the seconds-to-minutes long combat encounters in Guild Wars 2.

Then there is the issue of what of kind of disease. For example, Parkinson’s Disease —where characters would shake and drop their weapon on every tick? Or Tourret’s Syndrome perhaps, whereby characters would randomly /yell profanities and remain in a ‘stunned’ position. Leprosy, anyone? Rabies?

Just have AIDS be a disease and have the option to make love to others…

The average T-Cell count is going to go

down…

Palador.2170:

Is it the idea that you dislike, or just using that name for the idea? We could call it something else, after all.

Part of the answer to your question is in my post, but to expand briefly,
How does the notion of disease (or similar mechanic by a different name) improve on the existing gameplay? In my view, it doesn’t. The ‘pros’ the OP refers to are vague and contrived.

Donari.5237:

I’ve directly seen two times where disease was put in an MMO. So much griefing. SO MUCH. The intent was that the players had to work together to stop the disease. Instead, it became impossible to do anything in cities or anywhere else the griefers could find groups of people to deliberately infect.

Maybe ANet could find a way to make it fun to have any other player’s approach to you trigger paranoia and the need to log out, but I can’t think of one.

If you’re thinking about WoW, where one such (literal) epidemic got people to grief like all hell… No, that was just a glitch that got very, VERY out of hand. Disease is a condition and, unless stated otherwise, can be cleansed the same way bleeding or poison could.